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Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.24 10:48:00 - [1] Saw this in another thread where LUKEC pointed this out as an idea. What do people think? Would this be a reasonable "nerf" for the cloaks people constantly complain about? --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
Khatred Fluffy Mungoose Guinea Pigs	Posted - 2007.05.24 10:50:00 - [2] Neah, I got a better one, let's remove stealth bombers, recons and covert ops ships. Much better.
ForceM Gallente POS Builder Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.24 10:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Dark Shikari Saw this in another thread where LUKEC pointed this out as an idea. What do people think? Would this be a reasonable "nerf" for the cloaks people constantly complain about? DUDE ...HELL NO have you even SEEN the cargo space of a Helios? Me being a pessimist is a win-win situation: Either i am right .. or its even better then i said.
Xtreem Gallente Space Chickz	Posted - 2007.05.24 10:53:00 - [4] i must confes i hate recons, even though i fly one myself! but making them consume resource would be a great idea.
chromer one FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.24 10:54:00 - [5] Idea of nuclear powered cloaks is nice. I just think that consumption should be quite minimal so that cloaking ships can do extended campaign without constant support. Finfleet isRecruiting experienced pvp pilots.Apply
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.24 10:54:00 - [6] Originally by: ForceM Originally by: Dark Shikari Saw this in another thread where LUKEC pointed this out as an idea. What do people think? Would this be a reasonable "nerf" for the cloaks people constantly complain about? DUDE ...HELL NO have you even SEEN the cargo space of a Helios? well obviously it doesnt necessarily have to consume heavy water, but they can always change the bonus's
DreadPirate Ryu Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:00:00 - [7] Edited by: DreadPirate Ryu on 24/05/2007 10:58:40 Here's an idea for this, make it consume <fuel> and then the cloak can be used for say...3-6 hours. After which it will consume more <fuel> for another 3-6 hours. Make the consumption rate such that you can carry enough in a force recon for 12-18 hours or so, and give cov ops ships a bonus to consumption rate so they can do the same. <fuel> can be any type of item that is deemed to be fit for consumption by the cloak. This sig was uploaded on May 24th, 2007, 7PM (+9 GMT) And it's actually 24048 bytes.
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:00:00 - [8] I think there are some reasonable arguments for this, but there should be differences between the different types of cloaks/ships.... Cloaking should still be a very useful tool.... Quick ideas.... Cov-ops cloaks should be able to run for maybe 12-24 hours (maybe even more) on one cargo-load of fuel for a cov-ops, and maybe 8 hours for a recon. T2 cloak, maybe run 1-2 hours on one cargo-load of fuel. T1 cloak, maybe 30 minutes on one cargo-load of fuel. Figures and methods open for discussion and modification... My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:05:00 - [9] ...for all cloaks on all ships except covops (frigs and recon) Yes. -
Velsharoon Gallente Endgame.	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Alski ...for all cloaks on all ships except covops (frigs and recon) Yes.
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Dark Shikari Saw this in another thread where LUKEC pointed this out as an idea. What do people think? Would this be a reasonable "nerf" for the cloaks people constantly complain about? Sure, give my buzzard a 10,000% cargo space increase... Carrying probs for a day uses room enough without needing fuel to cloak. Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Ssoraszh Tzarszh Minmatar Retribution Corp.	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:08:00 - [12] Whats wrong with cloaks? they are very nice to loot
Teron D'Amun The Burning Orphans Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:09:00 - [13] deuterium has nothing to do with cloaking, tachyon particles do you damn star trek ignorants
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Alski ...for all cloaks on all ships except covops (frigs and recon) Yes. That id support! Cloaks use xxx fuel Covert Ops cloak uses 0 fuel! Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:10:00 - [15] Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Alski ...for all cloaks on all ships except covops (frigs and recon) Yes. That id support! Cloaks use xxx fuel Covert Ops cloak uses 0 fuel! Oh and Stealth Bombers! Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Jikx Everproud ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:21:00 - [16] 1 Unit of Heavy Water to cloak. 1 Unit to maintain cloak per 1/2 hour. Small, but it does mean people have to leave to refuel instead of hanging around 23/7 --- I'm doing my part too!
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:26:00 - [17] I don't believe CCP ever intended someone to cloak a BS or Carrier and place it in some elses space all day TO that end. 1. IF you have POS then you should have a module you can place in the POS that negates cloaking in that system for all except maybe the covert ops. Now if someone of a different alliance places a POS with the same function in your system they cancel each other out. You can still be cloaked and invis on the overview and the system scan but someone with probes can find you end send a party to take you out. By its own description the cloaking devices are not perfect. Basically more power to the people that own the system. Covert ops I am not so sure about there are designed to be cloaked so let them stay that way or give them a small chance of being found with the module if anything. Recons I think have strayed far from there original purpose. Maybe the answer is to not kill the cloaking abilities but limit there DPS to make them not such a threat. One version is supposed to just do cyno's so its dps should be small. THe other not sure on.
Reece'Urchin Uno	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Jikx Everproud 1 Unit of Heavy Water to cloak. 1 Unit to maintain cloak per 1/2 hour. Small, but it does mean people have to leave to refuel instead of hanging around 23/7 Need to think about this more. If your in a Cov Ops frigate probing, you constantly have to turn your cloak on and off. Would it consume 1 unit everytime u activated it? My skills for example allow me to run a scan every 25 seconds. To do this I have to decloak and then recloak (hostile system). So in about 30 minutes scanning I have used 61 (possibly 120 depending on how your idea works) units of Heavy Water. This is 24m3 of space gone in your cargo already. Although I am not against the fuel for cloaks per se, just you can't nerf true covert ops ships.
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Korizan Recons I think have strayed far from there original purpose. Maybe the answer is to not kill the cloaking abilities but limit there DPS to make them not such a threat. Force Recons already do ** DPS Combat recons get no cloaking bonus I think the recons are fine as is. Any changes made shouldnt nerf anything... they should just stop the * sitting 18hours afk in a raven crap. Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Professor Pizi	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:37:00 - [20] you need to give em extra cargo where you only put in cloakin fuel and start the use timer 1 to 5 mins after cloakin
Major Stormer Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:39:00 - [21] Edited by: Major Stormer on 24/05/2007 11:37:15 Updated OP sounds good, also: The larger the ship the more fuel it costs. to fuel titans cloaks would cost tons and tons, to fuel a frigate cloak would be almost nothing.
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:42:00 - [22] Just remove the ability to fit cloaks on Battleships and Capitals.
Terazuk	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:46:00 - [23] OMG please, no, no, no and no! Originally by: Khatred Neah, I got a better one, let's remove stealth bombers, recons and covert ops ships. Much better. I'm hoping that's sarcasm Originally by: ForceM DUDE ...HELL NO Thankyou, someone at least marginally sensible. Originally by: Xtreem must confess* i hate recons, even though i fly one myself! Lies! Originally by: MassonA well obviously it doesnt necessarily have to consume heavy water, but they can always change the bonus's Lalalalala I'm not hearing this... can someone tell him to stop now... lalalala ... I'm sure you get my point, I love my sneaky, stealthy Recon. Granted AFK cloak griefing is a royal pain in the arse what needs to be done is to find a way to counter it and it shouldn't be easy either. This nerf/boost culture is getting way out of hand :( boost this, nerf that! bah. Lets face it, it's not as if the guy can shoot at you while cloaked now can he? As soon as that cloak disengages you can burn him out of the sky as no doubt all your corp mates and compatriots can rally to you when the call goes out. Stuck in a belt miles away from any support? well what did you think was going to happen? Risk/Reward anyone? you don't need a cloak to catch ratters in belts If you are not awake you are a target... Simple and true anywhere in eve. ~ "BANG you're dead!"
Reiisha Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:50:00 - [24] Good idea, really. A simple solution technically would be to tie in the activation time with a fuel requirement, in other words, ammo. Covert Ops Cloaks are exempt from this, but prototype and improved cloaks would need "ammo" to fuel their cloaking. EVE History Wiki
Reiisha Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Terazuk Rant Read more carefully. Proto and Improved Cloaks should use fuel, not Covert Ops Cloaks. The ships that were meant to have cloaks would be unaffected, while all other ships keep the utility of cloaking, it just can't be abused like it is now anymore. EVE History Wiki
Dave White coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:53:00 - [26] Not that bad of an idea, imho. It should indeed have some kind of limitation. Being able to be scanned/probed out ruins it, so fuel seems a reasonable alternative. CORA. Killboard Personal Killboard
TRUEAMARRIANMIGHT	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:54:00 - [27] Edited by: TRUEAMARRIANMIGHT on 24/05/2007 11:57:48 WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING!? No way I'd want the cloaks nerfed.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:59:00 - [28] Originally by: TRUEAMARRIANMIGHT The amount of fuel used should be based on the signature radius of ship. isk farming ravens would stay cloaked for all of 5 seconds /Signed -
TRUEAMARRIANMIGHT	Posted - 2007.05.24 12:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Alski Originally by: TRUEAMARRIANMIGHT The amount of fuel used should be based on the signature radius of ship. isk farming ravens would stay cloaked for all of 5 seconds /Signed *******s, I edited too late...
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.24 12:07:00 - [30] /signed Anything, cloaks are way too common currently.
Ozzie Asrail Exploited	Posted - 2007.05.24 12:07:00 - [31] Fantasic idea to the problem, I think that would work really well. Some thoughts on ballance? Covops\Bombers - No Heavy Water Usage. Force Recons - cloak-style bonus. 96%-100% reduction so would use 0 heavy water at level 5. Want to prema-camp a system? spend the 25+ days training imho. Battleships - 200% usage Capships - 400% usage -----
Miharu Hinata Gallente Noodle Ninja	Posted - 2007.05.24 12:17:00 - [32] This is a good idea, but i think that Cov ops and Recons should not have to consume fuel to stay cloaked, since as far as i know being cloaked is one of the main points in having a cov ops or recon ship. Or as some other people have said, only allow cov ops and recon ships to use cloaks, or something along those lines.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.24 12:18:00 - [33] Edited by: Alski on 24/05/2007 12:24:17 Originally by: TRUEAMARRIANMIGHT Edited by: TRUEAMARRIANMIGHT on 24/05/2007 11:57:48 WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING!? No way I'd want the cloaks nerfed. Is that because Amarr need to run and hide a lot? edit: Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Fantasic idea to the problem, I think that would work really well. Some thoughts on ballance? Covops\Bombers - No Heavy Water Usage. Force Recons - cloak-style bonus. 96%-100% reduction so would use 0 heavy water at level 5. Want to prema-camp a system? spend the 25+ days training imho. Battleships - 200% usage Capships - 400% usage That is a great way of doing it, as an extra evil bonus, i think that if fitted on a capship the cloak burns the same type of isotope as the capship's jump drive uses, if you screw up masiveley and have to hide cloaked for too long then you forgo your ability to jump out without a rescue party to get you fuel. Mmmm... i'm feeling evil this morning. -
TRUEAMARRIANMIGHT	Posted - 2007.05.24 12:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Alski Originally by: TRUEAMARRIANMIGHT Edited by: TRUEAMARRIANMIGHT on 24/05/2007 11:57:48 WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING!? No way I'd want the cloaks nerfed. Is that because Amarr need to run and hide a lot? We need the OOMPH, and quickly too please.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.24 12:43:00 - [35] I think I suggested this for the first time like 9 months ago, and still signed signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2007.05.24 12:48:00 - [36] Edited by: KISOGOKU on 24/05/2007 12:48:36 First : NO Second already pointed but people ignoring stealth bombers and combat reckons they have to use improved cloak and im sure nobody can say they are not ships intended to use cloak 3th-what will happen if i go to enemy line with cheap frig or other ship( how cynos are setup now)to open cyno say for sometime later?how will i carry Liquid Ozone and water? It will create more headache than it solved Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/05/2007 11:10:56 Saw this in another thread where LUKEC pointed this out as an idea. What do people think Edit: This wouldn't apply to covert ops cloaks, I would think. Edit:spelling
Saladin Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.24 12:52:00 - [37] I would agree with this in principle, but it does not go far enough. I think the changes should also stop capital ships from using cloaks. Say all non-cap ships get a -99.9% bonus to fitting reqs for non-covert cloaks, and cap ships don't get it. ----
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.24 12:53:00 - [38] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 24/05/2007 12:52:35 Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Fantasic idea to the problem, I think that would work really well. Some thoughts on ballance? Covops\Bombers - No Heavy Water Usage. Force Recons - cloak-style bonus. 96%-100% reduction so would use 0 heavy water at level 5. Want to prema-camp a system? spend the 25+ days training imho. Battleships - 200% usage Capships - 400% usage As far as number are concerned, the quantity of <insert fuel name here> needed should be dependent of ship mass / ship volume. Which would also prevent large ships from using cloaks for too long.
Kaar Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.24 13:26:00 - [39] No. Fix the farmer ss-cloak-ravens by increasing the % of scrambling frigs and make npc agro extend your log timer by a few minutes. I think the new POS scanner arrays should be able to probe down cloakers though, and if that area effect decloaking mod ever gets in thats your solution. --- ---
Lysit Kaune Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.24 13:32:00 - [40] Wouldn't it be easier to allow probing of cloaked ships? Make i so it drops you close by, then a stealth bomber could seek it out using a specialised large AOE low yield bomb to force an uncloak (Stealth bomber bombs coming soon (TM)). It might not let you catch cloaked ships that have someone watching over it but you'd remove a big AFK problem.
Valator Uel Caldari Pax Minor Asylum Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:10:00 - [41] What about correlation with the size of the ship to the amount of heavy water consumed? Lets say a frig with a 40m sig radius will consume 40 Heavy water per day (or 2 per hour). A carrier with 1000m sig radius consumes 1000 heavy water per day (or 42 heavy water per hour). So, if you put a cloak on a bigger ship you need more fuel. IMO it makes sense since the more ship you have to cloak the more "energy" and fuel it takes. -----------------------------------------------------
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:13:00 - [42] Your cloak is driven off your ship's reactor core, the same core that drives your engines, Warp drives, shields, etc. That is why you can't activate any modules when cloaked; you don't have the power to do it. You can have "fuel" for your cloaks when you have fuel for your ships. Otherwise its just a huge nerf that would prohibit actually using them in a campaign. their intention is to keep the ship SAFE and unseen, how can you do that when you can't carry enough fuel to do an extended trek into enemy/unknown territory? I would support a slow cap drain while cloaked, but fuel? No way. <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:15:00 - [43] A quick play with quickfit shows that the following would fit: Iteron Mark V Prototype Cloaking Device I Turret Slot Cap Recharger I Cap Recharger I Cap Recharger I Cap Recharger I Cap Recharger I Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Rigs : Cargohold Optimization I \ Cargohold Optimization I \ Cargohold Optimization I \ That gives a cargo hold of 38424 m3 or 96060 bits of heavy water Which would be more than enough to last a few years without having to go and get more heavy water.
Valrandir Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:17:00 - [44] Originally by: Tzrailasa I think there are some reasonable arguments for this, but there should be differences between the different types of cloaks/ships.... Cloaking should still be a very useful tool.... Quick ideas.... Cov-ops cloaks should be able to run for maybe 12-24 hours (maybe even more) on one cargo-load of fuel for a cov-ops, and maybe 8 hours for a recon. T2 cloak, maybe run 1-2 hours on one cargo-load of fuel. T1 cloak, maybe 30 minutes on one cargo-load of fuel. Figures and methods open for discussion and modification... Yes, as specified above. -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware
Ank Myrandor Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:18:00 - [45] what griefers ? cloacking ships arent that good and if your not a stealth bomber or a recon, your ****e with a cloack, think it as a new sort of stab :P but then for smarter people ontopic heavy water ?! that comes to the bright idea LETS CLOACK POS TOWERS :P hahahah that would be a nice carebear boost
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:19:00 - [46] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 24/05/2007 14:21:57 i dont like this solution, despite the fact that i hate afk cloakers. what i would like to see and what would be a much better solution is a scanning array u can anchor at a pos, which requires sometimes 30mins another time 1hour to scan for cloaked ships. also an advanced scanning array for an outpost would be sweet. i mean how much would it suck if youre 50jumps into 0.0 from nearest station and then u run out of fuel rendering your ship completly useless.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:26:00 - [47] Originally by: Reiisha Good idea, really. A simple solution technically would be to tie in the activation time with a fuel requirement, in other words, ammo. Covert Ops Cloaks are exempt from this, but prototype and improved cloaks would need "ammo" to fuel their cloaking. Signed like a bajillion times. Would help stop all these cloaking farmers infesting space BoB vs the coalition of family values
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:29:00 - [48] Originally by: Banana Torres A quick play with quickfit shows that the following would fit: Iteron Mark V Prototype Cloaking Device I Turret Slot Cap Recharger I Cap Recharger I Cap Recharger I Cap Recharger I Cap Recharger I Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Rigs : Cargohold Optimization I \ Cargohold Optimization I \ Cargohold Optimization I \ That gives a cargo hold of 38424 m3 or 96060 bits of heavy water Which would be more than enough to last a few years without having to go and get more heavy water. Which gets you a very slow, untanked, defenceless isk sink (seriousley though, i know you mean as a kind of 'in-air refueling' for cloaks) And yeah thats a good point, if for example 100m3 worth of units was enouth for 10 minutes, then 96000 would be good for 6.6 days, and allthough it would be supplying at least one other cloaked ship, most of the time both ships will be logged off. However - the fact that they are logged off fix's the one of the problems this is designed to solve - combat ships that are flown to a hostile system, useuley an outpost system and then safespoted and clocked, preventing mining + ratting in that system because at any time the hostile ship(s) can become non-AFK and gank, then with impunity return to being AFK and disrupting ops without even being at the keyboard, or even in the house. -
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:30:00 - [49] LOL @ people who want cloaks nerf'd cos people in their space.. Covert OP's should never and i repeat EVER use fuel and should last forever.. Thats their purpose. Scanning them out, means you might as well remove them from game. As for larger ships, a cloak already nerf's their ability to fight, if any fuels was implemented it would have to have a small m3, and a small amount should last for hours at the very least. Without the need to fill your cargo with fuels and not ammo. Cloaking works for and against Carbears, it works for and against pvp'ers thats balance.
Judas Lonestar Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:31:00 - [50] So just for my own info... Why doesnt every list how many times they've been jumped and popped by cloaked ships. I just want to see how many people have a valid complaint and how many are just whining for the sake of banging on the keyboard.
Judas Lonestar Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:32:00 - [51] Originally by: QuantumX LOL @ people who want cloaks nerf'd cos people in their space.. Covert OP's should never and i repeat EVER use fuel and should last forever.. Thats their purpose. Scanning them out, means you might as well remove them from game. As for larger ships, a cloak already nerf's their ability to fight, if any fuels was implemented it would have to have a small m3, and a small amount should last for hours at the very least. Without the need to fill your cargo with fuels and not ammo. Cloaking works for and against Carbears, it works for and against pvp'ers thats balance. Your use of logic goes against the rules of forum whining. Please refrain from using logic and facts. This is an emotional argument where facts have no place!
djenghis jan Amarr Debiloff's Vanguard	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:48:00 - [52] How about making the consumption a function of scan probes you try to hide from. If you opponent tries to scan you and drops a probe, the cloaking device adapts but needs an increased amount of fuel to do that. So if the probeship wants his prey he needs to keep probing until his target runs out of fuel. This could also work if used with the normal capacitor as fuel source. You could then decloak warp cloak to stay hidden and reload you capacitor but not stay afk for ever. Balancing between probe use and cloak cap use/fuel consumption needs to be done carefully of course
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:56:00 - [53] Originally by: Alski Which gets you a very slow, untanked, defenceless isk sink (seriousley though, i know you mean as a kind of 'in-air refueling' for cloaks) I think you missed the cloak in the high slot. Get this baby into the target system, turn on the cloak. Got to Asda and buy some out of date food. Come back and she will still be cloaked and you can read all the offensive comments in local.
Yarek Balear Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:14:00 - [54] As some have suggested here - Do NOT affect Covert Ops Cloaking ships (i.e. Stealth Bombers, Force Recons, Covert OPS ships). Affecting the Improved Cloaks or Prototype Cloaking device to use fuel sounds based on the sig radius of the ship its fitted to sounds like a reasonable half-way solution to the AFK or Macro BS cloaking problem while not affecting those that have specialised in the art of sneaky sneaky. Force recons already have limited offensive/defensive capability anyway, so they are not exactly the kind of ship to lock down a system on their own.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:19:00 - [55] Bad idea. Would kill exploration completetly. Simply the probes take up a cov ops whole cargo space. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Yarek Balear Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:27:00 - [56] Originally by: Laboratus Bad idea. Would kill exploration completetly. Simply the probes take up a cov ops whole cargo space. Did you read the thread at all ???
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:31:00 - [57] Originally by: Dark Shikari This wouldn't apply to covert ops cloaks, I would think. sounds good ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:35:00 - [58] Originally by: Yarek Balear Originally by: Laboratus Bad idea. Would kill exploration completetly. Simply the probes take up a cov ops whole cargo space. Did you read the thread at all ??? Yes, and I still agree with him. If you are spending an extended time exploring or anything else you don't HAVE the cargo capacity for fuel for a cloak. My "standard" loadout of probes for all situations and extended flights is over 350m3. Try putting that and fuel in most ships <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Mad Rage Amarr Dark Crystal Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:35:00 - [59] why make cloak hard to used if your living in 0.0 and your a cloak ship no other ship in the sector major problem in 0.0 its hard to get resources like that and they will be near impossible to get nerfing the cloak will make thing hard to play and no more people will use cloak remember some people like covert op need to carry ammo frigate size also minmatar, gallente and caldari need ammo as well so adding fual and ammo in a cargo bay (note there cargo size) you won;t be able to use the cloak well more like making it completely useless i htink the point of cloak is to hunt without been seen plus do you know how long it take to train for a recon there mroe powerful then covert op since they pop almost one shot lol
Ling Xiao Prism Project Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:39:00 - [60] Originally by: Mad Rage why make cloak hard to used if your living in 0.0 and your a cloak ship no other ship in the sector major problem in 0.0 its hard to get resources like that and they will be near impossible to get nerfing the cloak will make thing hard to play and no more people will use cloak remember some people like covert op need to carry ammo frigate size also minmatar, gallente and caldari need ammo as well so adding fual and ammo in a cargo bay (note there cargo size) you won;t be able to use the cloak well more like making it completely useless i htink the point of cloak is to hunt without been seen plus do you know how long it take to train for a recon there mroe powerful then covert op since they pop almost one shot lol Post of the century. A++ would read again. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing?
Mad Rage Amarr Dark Crystal Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:44:00 - [61] that smells a little sarcatic but its true when you think about it lol i hated 0.0 just for low on resources lol
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:48:00 - [62] This is a splendid idea! But let's not stop there. All ships should also have to carry: Food for our crews Fuel for our engines (which becomes quickly depleted when you use AB or MWD) Oxygen Holoreels (and rum) to keep the crew members entertained enough that they don't mutiny After a certain amount of flight time, ships should have to dock for periodic maintenance overhauls; failing to do so results in random equipment failure. Engage in too many battles, and your insurance gets canceled or you have to pay higher rates. All of these things would make Eve far more enjoyable. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Mad Rage Amarr Dark Crystal Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:53:00 - [63] Originally by: Montague Zooma This is a splendid idea! But let's not stop there. All ships should also have to carry: Food for our crews Fuel for our engines (which becomes quickly depleted when you use AB or MWD) Oxygen Holoreels (and rum) to keep the crew members entertained enough that they don't mutiny After a certain amount of flight time, ships should have to dock for periodic maintenance overhauls; failing to do so results in random equipment failure. Engage in too many battles, and your insurance gets canceled or you have to pay higher rates. All of these things would make Eve far more enjoyable. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL crazy not bad for "Pod" plioting lol
Sean Dillon Caldari Naughty 40	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:57:00 - [64] Cloaking is fine as it imho, the only problem I have is the unlimmited time on t1 cloaks. Who enable npcer's to cloak their battleships and never be found.
Mad Rage Amarr Dark Crystal Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:58:00 - [65] lol cloaking a battleship is not a problem tho the recalabration is too slow before a ship can target
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.24 16:29:00 - [66] Originally by: Banana Torres Originally by: Alski Which gets you a very slow, untanked, defenceless isk sink (seriousley though, i know you mean as a kind of 'in-air refueling' for cloaks) I think you missed the cloak in the high slot. Get this baby into the target system, turn on the cloak. Got to Asda and buy some out of date food. Come back and she will still be cloaked and you can read all the offensive comments in local. yeah i totaley agree, that comment was mostley sarcasam (and partley the thought of poping it on its way to its destination, and the horror of the pimped BS pilot when he realises without his hauler he has only 10 minutes of cloak time left ) -
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.24 16:31:00 - [67] Alright, but let the cloakers lock, fire and bump without coming out of cloak. There is no reason why a ship system should deactivate because of a proximity warning.
PathetiQ Gallente The Rat Pack	Posted - 2007.05.24 16:39:00 - [68] wow this is the stupidest post ever! cloak are great and perfect
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.24 16:55:00 - [69] But my cloaks are already fuelled by love
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.24 16:59:00 - [70] Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst But my cloaks are already fuelled by love I fuel mine with hate, I get better opacity to the mile.
Dal Thrax Caldari Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.05.24 17:03:00 - [71] Originally by: KISOGOKU Edited by: KISOGOKU on 24/05/2007 12:48:36 First : NO Second already pointed but people ignoring stealth bombers and combat reckons they have to use improved cloak and im sure nobody can say they are not ships intended to use cloak 3th-what will happen if i go to enemy line with cheap frig or other ship( how cynos are setup now)to open cyno say for sometime later?how will i carry Liquid Ozone and water? It will create more headache than it solved Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/05/2007 11:10:56 Saw this in another thread where LUKEC pointed this out as an idea. What do people think Edit: This wouldn't apply to covert ops cloaks, I would think. Edit:spelling Um use a recon ship for what it was designed for? Dal Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again. soon as i have time i will fill you in on the details
Adaris Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.24 17:04:00 - [72] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/05/2007 11:10:56 Saw this in another thread where LUKEC pointed this out as an idea. What do people think? Would this be a reasonable "nerf" for the cloaks people constantly complain about? Edit: You nuts, I didn't mean use "a ton of heavy water," I meant "just a little bit, so after a few hours of cloaking they would run out." This wouldn't apply to covert ops cloaks, I would think. But what would happen if you brought along your cloaked alt in a industrial ship stocked with enough heavy Water to last days? I suppose it could defeat the afk cloakers though. I'll give you an A for effort and a 3/10 on the giggleometer Please Help me, YOU could be next!
Malena Panic Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.24 17:51:00 - [73] Just turn cloaks into a repeating module and make 'em use heat to be active.
BABARR	Posted - 2007.05.24 17:58:00 - [74] Yup the cloak system is a bit strange, its easy to cloak a cruiser, but it's easy to cloak a carrier or a BS too. "just a little bit, so after a few hours of cloaking they would run out." And i had, more heavy water for big ship. Bigger signature, more heavy water (Or something else) to run a cloak. And more sign, biggest range of decloak. 2500m of a celestial object its ok for a cruiser, but a titan? you can be at 2500m of a cloaked titan and dont see it? its a joke.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.24 18:11:00 - [75] I like the premise, but not this particular application. Heres my suggestion: Create a cloaking fuel that is an ammo type. Make it huge (like 1000m3). Give cloaks their own storage space, with each cloak being able to hold the unpackaged ammo type. The ammo type will work similarly to how laser crystals work with the item taking damage through use. The total usage should be a fixed amount, lets say 1000 charges. Each time you activate a cloak, it begins using charges of the ammo that is loaded in the cloak. Each cloak type will use charges at a different rate. IE cov-ops cloaks use 1 tick per minute, T2 cloaks use 5/minute and basic cloaks use 10/minute. Or some such. Not a completely developed idea as there would be problems with transport and some other issues, but it gets away from the problem of cloak fuel taking a ton of cargo space and avoids people just using GSCs etc to bypass the long term time nerf of cloaking afk etc.
Kahrek Laume Gallente Mirage Industries	Posted - 2007.05.24 18:25:00 - [76] Now i know this was suggested somewhere before and i find that this is a much better solution to any of the other problems IMHO. Make the cloak have a timer (10 to 15 minutes) after that time the ship uncloaks automaticaly and the cloak cannot be reactivated for a certain period of time 90 seconds for T1, 75 seconds for T2, 5 seconds for cov ops. And give stealth bombers / combat recon a role bonus to that T2 cloak delay (Say 75% less time to recloak) Now this solves the annoying carrying fuel problems, AFK cloakers will have to come back to the keyboard every 10 to 15 minutes (And hey if they are willing to put that much effort into it then they should be able to annoy you) if you have someone hunting the cloaker down with a scaning vessel (25 second scan) who is alert well there is a darn good chance he can eventualy catch a cloak using raven (With a sig strenght of a small moon it should not be hard to get a 0m) This also lets cov op and recon ships do their jobs, if you are scouting out someone well 10 - 15 minutes cloak should give you enough time to do a goo analysys of their forces and then you just warp out to a safe uncloak wait a few seconds recloak and head back in. In summary. -23/7 AFK Cloak solved. -No annoying fuel ussage / supply problems (Or cargohold problems) -Ships can all use a cloak (If someone is paying attention) but can still be nabbed by an alert party. Just my 2 canadian pennies worth. Regards, Kahrek Laume.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.24 18:39:00 - [77] I don't think it'll help much. They'll just log out. Make npc's aggro and THEN we might have to consider some sort of cloaking change. But as it stands now, logging out is about 10000000000X more effective than anything else you can do.
Kahrek Laume Gallente Mirage Industries	Posted - 2007.05.24 18:44:00 - [78] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz I don't think it'll help much. They'll just log out. Make npc's aggro and THEN we might have to consider some sort of cloaking change. But as it stands now, logging out is about 10000000000X more effective than anything else you can do. True, give the cloak the equivalent to an aggro timer then, you stay in system until the cloak ends it's cycle and for 5 minutes more after that, that way cloak + CTRL-Q = 5 minutes uncloaked time just waiting around to be poded. And if you really do just accidentaly go linkdead during that time well you have a few minutes to get back online and try to get away somehow before you are vulnerable in space. This idea is a work in progress but i like the concept of nerfing unatended cloaking more than the idea of adding another logistic nightmare to a game already heavily ladden with them. Kahrek Laume.
Malena Panic Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:00:00 - [79] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz I don't think it'll help much. They'll just log out. I have a fix for that too: ships lose aggro only on session change, and even then only after the timer elapses.
Mirirar Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:06:00 - [80] I think we should start giving out 1 month forum bans to people who whine.
Adaris Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:08:00 - [81] lol nice ideas last 3-4 posters.(Even though i think one of you addmitted to corpying it from someone else)... I support this. Please Help me, YOU could be next!
Dave White coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:08:00 - [82] Originally by: Ling Xiao Originally by: Mad Rage why make cloak hard to used if your living in 0.0 and your a cloak ship no other ship in the sector major problem in 0.0 its hard to get resources like that and they will be near impossible to get nerfing the cloak will make thing hard to play and no more people will use cloak remember some people like covert op need to carry ammo frigate size also minmatar, gallente and caldari need ammo as well so adding fual and ammo in a cargo bay (note there cargo size) you won;t be able to use the cloak well more like making it completely useless i htink the point of cloak is to hunt without been seen plus do you know how long it take to train for a recon there mroe powerful then covert op since they pop almost one shot lol Post of the century. A++ would read again. I concur. CORA. Killboard Personal Killboard
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:08:00 - [83] Please no more cloaking threads. My bets on Dark Shakari having a whomping pile of fuel ready to shove on the market too A CLOAKED SHIP CAN DO NOTHING TO YOU BEYOND REPORTING INTELLIGENCE AND WATCHING YOUR MOVEMENTS Enough already... "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:23:00 - [84] Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 24/05/2007 19:25:20 Originally by: Kahrek Laume Originally by: Shamis Orzoz I don't think it'll help much. They'll just log out. Make npc's aggro and THEN we might have to consider some sort of cloaking change. But as it stands now, logging out is about 10000000000X more effective than anything else you can do. True, give the cloak the equivalent to an aggro timer then, you stay in system until the cloak ends it's cycle and for 5 minutes more after that, that way cloak + CTRL-Q = 5 minutes uncloaked time just waiting around to be poded. And if you really do just accidentaly go linkdead during that time well you have a few minutes to get back online and try to get away somehow before you are vulnerable in space. You missed my point. They'll just stop wearing cloaks at all and log out as soon as people enter local. Originally by: Melana Panic I have a fix for that too: ships lose aggro only on session change, and even then only after the timer elapses. How are they going to get aggro in the first place? That is the real problem. NPC's don't aggro. I guess I have a different perspective than most. Cloaks don't bother me that much. The real problem with eve right now is logging out. There is no point in anybody trying to control space these days. NPC'ing and complex whoring generate more isk than mining, and logging out from such things guarantees safety. So the whole concept of protecting your own territory in 0.0 goes out the window. Not to mention that piracy in 0.0 (and juat about anywhere else) is restricted to gates as always. Belt hunting is IMPOSSIBLE if everybody logs out as soon as people enter local. The only way to combat this tactic is to put afk cloakers in every system to watch npc'ers and aggro them before they can log out. I like the idea of having cloakers use some fuel or something, but the only thing it solves is the afk cloaked predator...and the ONLY reason predators have to go afk cloaked is so they can get the locals to log back in and actually aggro them before they log out. shamis
Adaris Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:25:00 - [85] Edited by: Adaris on 24/05/2007 19:24:28 But what about a cloaking cov ops ship set up to scramble and web you while his mate de-cloaks in his battship and waits the few seconds to be able to start locking you as well with his pimped out sensor booster/blaster BS? Facing facts Cloaking tactics like that aren't balanced. At least the devs 'try' to balance everything else. So when you say cloaked ships can't attack you, thats BS (no, not battleship) Edit: Directed at RuleoftheBone Please Help me, YOU could be next!
Cletus Graeme Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:51:00 - [86] /Signed Great Idea. Please consider it CCP. But the key here is not "nerf" but "fix". ECM was nerfed and it made the rook barely usable and even then only by highly specialised pilots (of which I am one!). We want covops and recons to remain UNAFFECTED while other cloak users are prevented from going afk indefinitely while still in space.
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.05.24 20:08:00 - [87] Making cloaks use heavy water (or any other fuel stored in cargo) would be a massive ***** to the skull of exploration, especially low-sec and 0.0. First, you've got a small cargohold and probes take a lot of room to carry a decent amount, and second, you're often pretty deep into space and forcing people to go back and forth to load up on their cloak's fuel every couple of hours would frankly- suck, and suck hard. It'd probably kill exploration outright, or at least make it a ton harder, and it's not like invention isn't already expensive enough. A better alternative to nerfing cloaks is something I've mentioned several times in the past: An inactivity timer. After 20 minutes of no activity from the client, you get logged out. It wouldn't apply if you're docked. That neatly resolves the AFK cloaker problem which is about 99% of the issue people have with cloaks. With an inactivity timer, if someone's in system and cloaked, you'd know they're at their keyboard and can respond appropriately.
Slate Fistcrunch Direct Intent Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.05.24 20:12:00 - [88] Make non covert ops cloaks use, oh I don't know, isk or skillpoints for fuel. Yeah that would be interesting. I have no clue how to explain it in roleplaying terms but I find this idea highly amusing.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.24 20:16:00 - [89] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Make non covert ops cloaks use, oh I don't know, isk or skillpoints for fuel. Yeah that would be interesting. I have no clue how to explain it in roleplaying terms but I find this idea highly amusing. No.
Cammulos Magnetar Ltd Dark Synergy	Posted - 2007.05.24 20:20:00 - [90] Corpse fuel. I need somethin to do with all the dead bodies lying around.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.24 20:26:00 - [91] Surface combatants use sonar to detect submarines. Eve warships could use sonar type modules to detect cloaked ships. Skill levels, module efficiency, specialized ship types could all come into play. Imagine a skilled cloaking pilot trying to stay ahead of a skilled detection pilot. Could be lots of fun.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.24 20:35:00 - [92] Originally by: Drunk Driver Surface combatants use sonar to detect submarines. Eve warships could use sonar type modules to detect cloaked ships. Skill levels, module efficiency, specialized ship types could all come into play. Imagine a skilled cloaking pilot trying to stay ahead of a skilled detection pilot. Could be lots of fun. 1. There are specially trained sonar operators, due to the fact, to the layman, a whale looks like an enemy sub. 2. There is no medium for any such pulse to travel through in space, period. Physics ftl.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.24 21:31:00 - [93] I haven't read the whole 4 pages, but the reason to make Cloaks use fuel is so that people cannot enter the system, cloak, and go afk all day long. That kind of ability effectively shuts down the system to any real operations, as the enemy will be able to freely spy on you and you cannot do anything about it. Therefore, any fuel usage should be scaled is such a way that it is not possible to remain cloaked for very long. Certainly not all day. A better solution might be Heat. Don't require actual usage of fuels, but make it so that the unit shuts off after 30 min or so. While I'm not trying to Nerf cloaking, I think it is important to have SOME way to prevent a ship from remaining cloaked and invulnerable forever.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.24 21:54:00 - [94] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Drunk Driver Surface combatants use sonar to detect submarines. Eve warships could use sonar type modules to detect cloaked ships. Skill levels, module efficiency, specialized ship types could all come into play. Imagine a skilled cloaking pilot trying to stay ahead of a skilled detection pilot. Could be lots of fun. 1. There are specially trained sonar operators, due to the fact, to the layman, a whale looks like an enemy sub. 2. There is no medium for any such pulse to travel through in space, period. Physics ftl. You're forgetting that eve is in fact based off fishtank physics and not space. Reality ftw!
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:00:00 - [95] Originally by: Princess Jodi I haven't read the whole 4 pages, but the reason to make Cloaks use fuel is so that people cannot enter the system, cloak, and go afk all day long. That kind of ability effectively shuts down the system to any real operations, as the enemy will be able to freely spy on you and you cannot do anything about it. Therefore, any fuel usage should be scaled is such a way that it is not possible to remain cloaked for very long. Certainly not all day. A better solution might be Heat. Don't require actual usage of fuels, but make it so that the unit shuts off after 30 min or so. While I'm not trying to Nerf cloaking, I think it is important to have SOME way to prevent a ship from remaining cloaked and invulnerable forever. The problem with all fuel-based methods is simply that in deep 0.0 there is no way to refuel. You have effectively made the module obsolete. Plus the problem isn't "all day long", the only problem is "all day long, 7 days a week while afk". Any fuel method that didn't nerf legitimate uses of hte cloak wouldn't stop the afkers. Some sort of timing/recharge is the best alternative, but again make the durations too short/too long to charge and again you have destroyed the module and ships. Personally I don't think there is any issue. If you are that stressed about a AFK ship in local maybe you SHOULD go back to Empire. 0.0 is not supposed to be perfectly safe and secure. <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Princess Euphoria	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:54:00 - [96] Cloaks are fine, stop the forums spam . Although making non-cvops cloakers a bit easier to find using scanprobes would be nice...
CrestoftheStars Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.25 00:01:00 - [97] please stop making new treads about the same stuf. i know cloaks are the all time whine of the month but please stop it. (i would guess some major alliance have been hit heavely by it thats why but who knows) be fair and make some balance... as i have said before: make local as npc corp chat (only comes up if you type). make probes that can find cloaked ships, make a device which uncloak cloaked ships but with a cooldown timer of whatever would be fair and balenced 5-10 minutes whatever is fair for all. ___________________________________________ Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.25 00:06:00 - [98] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/05/2007 11:10:56 Saw this in another thread where LUKEC pointed this out as an idea. What do people think? Would this be a reasonable "nerf" for the cloaks people constantly complain about? Edit: You nuts, I didn't mean use "a ton of heavy water," I meant "just a little bit, so after a few hours of cloaking they would run out." This wouldn't apply to covert ops cloaks, I would think. Its a good stop-gap, but it would also need to apply to covert ships. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
yoyaz	Posted - 2007.05.25 00:09:00 - [99] me thinks its fine as is :P
firepup82 Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.25 01:15:00 - [100] Originally by: yoyaz me thinks its fine as is :P Me too. Cloaks using water....lol The stupidest thing I have heard of. Recons are supposed to stay hidden. Thats the point....right? Oh, someone gets a little paranoid because they see someone in local and thinks they are out to get them. As far as I'm concerned lose local. Then this little problem will take care of itself.
Agnar Koladrov Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:18:00 - [101] I haven`t read the complete topic, didn`t feel like doing so. Anyway. Dark Shikari, I would much more prefer a system where the cloaksystem uses capacitor power which is coupled to ships sig radius. The more sigradius a ship has the more capacitor power it need to complete 1 cloaking cycle. How to further intergrate it into covops, I dunno, perhaps with a bonus to make cap use lower, to they can still be a real covops. ________________________________________________ -- What a Revelation! -- Where was the creativty for speed/mass/etc when the tier2 Battlecruisers were designed? Why the same for each race BC?
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:23:00 - [102] Originally by: Drunk Driver Surface combatants use sonar to detect submarines. Eve warships could use sonar type modules to detect cloaked ships. Skill levels, module efficiency, specialized ship types could all come into play. Imagine a skilled cloaking pilot trying to stay ahead of a skilled detection pilot. Could be lots of fun. Read up a bit more regarding modern submarine warfare. Try www.subsim.com. Usually the only time a submarine is detected is either a mistake made by the crew or when a weapon is fired. Not that EvE has any sort of physics model anyway "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Iota Mordu RAND Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:27:00 - [103] /signed Cov ops cloaks and stealth bombers should use no fuel, but everything else should use a little bit of fuel.
Tintifish Roid Terminators	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:28:00 - [104] The problem with making cloaks consume stuff is that its a "nerf" to both ammo using ships, and to cap boosting ships. A possibility, is to make it so you cant reload cloaks outside of stations. Give them charges, say a 1 min cycle time(can be stopped before its complete) and let a proto carry 30, impro 120 and a covert ops either not use them or carry something like 1500. However, they must be cheap and easy to produce, possibly similar to ammo, rather than cap boosters.
Tintifish Roid Terminators	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:30:00 - [105] Originally by: Derovius Vaden 1. There are specially trained sonar operators, due to the fact, to the layman, a whale looks like an enemy sub. 2. There is no medium for any such pulse to travel through in space, period. Physics ftl. I would presume he does not literally mean a sonar, but some uber-insta-transdirectional-wave-emitter.
Belial02 Amarr The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:25:00 - [106] Just restrict em to covert ops/bombers with a mad CPU requirement. Ships MEANT TO be cloaked could then recieve a 99% bonus on fitting. Or make it so you cant use any other module when its fitted. Atm its just everywhere and needs to be adressed for its plain ridiculous. Originally by: Omeega diplomacy is f1, f2, f3, really...
jarni Amarr The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:37:00 - [107] Edited by: jarni on 25/05/2007 09:38:02 the solution is easy make all non dedicated cloaking ships use 80% of it¦s cpu to fit them
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:40:00 - [108] We should move this to Ideas and Features. Requiring the cloak to have a fuel cost seems reasonable. I think the fuel cost should be dependent on a ship size. The larger the ship the more it costs to use a cloak. This means that it'll take a lot more fuel to cloak a carrier than to cloak a cruiser for instance. I do agree covert ops and recon should get a bonus to fuel consumption, might could even have a cloaking fuel skill to reduce fuel consumption. You could also introduce rigs that might make cloaking take less fuel :). Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:42:00 - [109] Originally by: jarni Edited by: jarni on 25/05/2007 09:38:02 the solution is easy make all non dedicated cloaking ships use 80% of it¦s cpu to fit them This gets my Vote. I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:49:00 - [110] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: jarni Edited by: jarni on 25/05/2007 09:38:02 the solution is easy make all non dedicated cloaking ships use 80% of it¦s cpu to fit them This gets my Vote. They would need to introduce a dedicated cloaking hauling ship in that case. Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Achaiah Black Bag Ops	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:52:00 - [111] I have an idea. How about nerfing the carebear whiners? It could cost strontium for them to post on the forum. 1000 stront/word + 10 for each time someone reads it. Or they could lose 2% CPU on all their ships for every whining nerf post they write (but to be fair, it should not be permanent. It could bleed of at a rate of 1% per week or so).
Falacious Micutoe Minmatar Forsaken to the Core Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:57:00 - [112] i'd agree to that, cloaking is fine as it is, for one you cant lock or fire whilst under the sheen, you cant cloak whilst sum1's locked onto you, your speed is nerfed by stupid amounts of the T1 devices so ffs quit whining about it, there's not a lot cloakers can do but reconassance and people have scouts for that cloaking devices are not worth their trouble unless its covert ops with a fast ship, its got enough limitations so stop with the whining please
Davlos Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:07:00 - [113] /signed I'm sick and tired of trying to hunt ISK farmers and not being able to catch them because all they will do is just ss and cloak. Hell, one of them has been doing this in a system two jumps away from me for about six months and he's still there. ---------------
Falacious Micutoe Minmatar Forsaken to the Core Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:13:00 - [114] Originally by: Davlos /signed I'm sick and tired of trying to hunt ISK farmers and not being able to catch them because all they will do is just ss and cloak. Hell, one of them has been doing this in a system two jumps away from me for about six months and he's still there. that's easily tackled, wait for their transport to come, which evetually it will, and blow that up, just camp the bugger til he disappears from local
insulubria	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:14:00 - [115] fuel for cloak? wow, just WOW. I mean the audacity of some people is amazing. cloaks already have penalty's much like a WCS that has a effect online or offline (not active inactive) If you didn't show up in local when you were cloaked the isk farming ravens wouldn't see you coming would they. jumps in the last hour, ships killed should still register all the same, when things are too quite, think before jumping :P TBH some of you people have to GROW UP.
Crimson Magician Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:19:00 - [116] capital and super capitals shouldnt be able to cloak at all. being able to is just ludicrous tbh.
Falacious Micutoe Minmatar Forsaken to the Core Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:20:00 - [117] Originally by: insulubria fuel for cloak? wow, just WOW. I mean the audacity of some people is amazing. cloaks already have penalty's much like a WCS that has a effect online or offline (not active inactive) If you didn't show up in local when you were cloaked the isk farming ravens wouldn't see you coming would they. jumps in the last hour, ships killed should still register all the same, when things are too quite, think before jumping :P TBH some of you people have to GROW UP. i like you we share opinions
Cordial Ripper Minmatar g guild	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:21:00 - [118] i haven read all the replys but honestly i dotn have to. for the guy that sugested: Dude cause of ppl like u this game evolved in to a wrong direction in many ways. to all who agreed with him: if u want to make eve look more real please invent a croak in RL if not STFU and to all who said what CCP dint intedend u to cloak captial ships or bs's look carefuly at module description it has certain penaltys so if u want to use it u will definetly have a drawback. it's only fair to keep the cloak modules as they are sorry for the direct aproch but i am sick of whiners respects to all who agree with me
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:27:00 - [119] Originally by: Tintifish The problem with making cloaks consume stuff is that its a "nerf" to both ammo using ships, and to cap boosting ships. I think its more of a "nerf" to people sitting in local in a cloaked megathron for 15 hours straight. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
BLAIYNE Old Farts Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:30:00 - [120] Originally by: Terazuk This nerf/boost culture is getting way out of hand QFT. It seems everyone that uses a particular module/ship is trying to get every module/ship they don't use nerfed, especially if they are beaten/frustrated by someone using something they don't use. The beauty of Eve is that you can specialise in different things. Just because you've specialised in something that someone else hasn't, it doesn't mean it should be nerfed so you don't have an advantage over them.
Emo Jelli	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:45:00 - [121] I say, make people stick to using the Ideas forum and not drag anything they fancy into General Discussion just because they like to have their name visible in threads seen by the masses. Emo JelliÖ¡¡ - Foodstuff for the Emotionally Unstable
insulubria	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:53:00 - [122] remove cloak from cap ships, what the F***K is wrong with you? IF ccp ever tried that you'd see a shift from 0.0 to hi-sec and a shift of canceled subscriptions. What makes eve great is its Rock-paper-scissors. What you want is just Paper-Scissors. Get a life.
rig0r 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:12:00 - [123] No. A cloaking NPCer will then just log instead of cloak, or hide in a fricking POS (which I find far more annoying tbh)
Jack Kevorkian God's of Eve	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:59:00 - [124] I think using these forums should burn 10m isk/min. It would be nice to see cloaking farmers run out of gas one day tho
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:44:00 - [125] I think people should try dealing with the problems in game, and not come on the bloody forums everytime they get killed. Cloaks isnt overpowered, we kill lots of them every day... So why cant you peeps? Yeah, it`s quite funny to see overconfident recon/covert ops people trying to get away, or be smart, just to get their ships blown up.
mr passie Minmatar The Renegade Order Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:54:00 - [126] What needs to be done is to make it more difficult to make cloaks. I say we stop with this foolish invention and trade it for something else, a lottery maybe... /me grabs beer and popcorn awaiting replies I'm a reversed paranoid schizophrenic. I have voices in my head I just think I don't hear them!
Taurequis Waylander 01	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:05:00 - [127] If the issue is just bloody peeps staying logged in cloaked afk in a system for 18 hour at a pop just invent a bloody probe that scans and decloaks peeps but takes an hour to run. Problem solved without having to re-write the whole game.
Nicholas Barker MASS	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:08:00 - [128] Originally by: Taurequis If the issue is just bloody peeps staying logged in cloaked afk in a system for 18 hour at a pop just invent a bloody probe that scans and decloaks peeps but takes an hour to run. Problem solved without having to re-write the whole game. LARGE QUANTITIES OF WIN! ---
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:14:00 - [129] Obviously this topic has a lot of emotion associated with it. I gather 3 problems with existing cloak mechanisms: 1> NPC'rs cloak when Pirates come to gank them. 2> Capitals/BS's cloak and people feel like its not right. 3> AFK scouts sit in a system 23/7. I personally have complained about #3, as I saw RA able to prevent any mining or ratting from occurring with a single cloaked scout that occasionally checked local. My frustration was that there was no way to counter this at all. However, after reading this post and listening to everyone wanting exceptions for this and that, I've changed my mind. It seems like everyone is just pushing their own private agenda, and that no one is truly trying to find a solution that is fair to all. So in spite of the need for some adjustment to current Cloak mechanics, I've got to withdraw my support for any of the mechanisms proposed here. Therfore I'll continue to cloak my Carrier, I'll hide from Piewrats while NPC'ing and I'll have to live with AFK cloakers spying on me.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:17:00 - [130] Originally by: BLAIYNE Originally by: Terazuk This nerf/boost culture is getting way out of hand QFT. It seems everyone that uses a particular module/ship is trying to get every module/ship they don't use nerfed, especially if they are beaten/frustrated by someone using something they don't use. The beauty of Eve is that you can specialise in different things. Just because you've specialised in something that someone else hasn't, it doesn't mean it should be nerfed so you don't have an advantage over them. epic post ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Reiisha Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:09:00 - [131] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: BLAIYNE Originally by: Terazuk This nerf/boost culture is getting way out of hand QFT. It seems everyone that uses a particular module/ship is trying to get every module/ship they don't use nerfed, especially if they are beaten/frustrated by someone using something they don't use. The beauty of Eve is that you can specialise in different things. Just because you've specialised in something that someone else hasn't, it doesn't mean it should be nerfed so you don't have an advantage over them. epic post Risk/reward. With cloak as it is now, everyone and his dog can go everywhere without any risk of being caught. While this is intended for covert ops ships and the likes, ravens, typhoons and titans aren't meant to have this kind of power, for obvious reasons. EVE History Wiki
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:17:00 - [132] Edited by: SiJira on 25/05/2007 16:15:43 Originally by: Reiisha Risk/reward. With cloak as it is now, everyone and his dog can go everywhere without any risk of being caught. While this is intended for covert ops ships and the likes, ravens, typhoons and titans aren't meant to have this kind of power, for obvious reasons. mm first of all its skill intensive so not everyone can do it and second - the whiners keep making stupid solutions that would ruin even the specialized cloakers ry ry made a good suggestion in another thread that i reposted in the please do NOT nerf cloaking thread ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Alexander Knott Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 17:53:00 - [133] Make consumption proportional to the size of the ship maybe? Maybe even have it be exponential so that frigates take almost none, cruisers are manageable, battleships can cloak for some time and cap ships it just becomes unworkable. ----- "I like to loot, especially going to the can of the battleship, sometimes there is a surprise inside, sometimes there is only carp..."
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:46:00 - [134] I would prefer to see a new niche T2 ship, something along the lines of the interdictor, but a cloak hunter. Equipped with a tachyon field emitter type doowhack,y it could send a burst out which unloaks ships within range, skills would increase range of the burst and rof. You would have to have a pretty good clue where the cloaker was sat, so this would not be very useful for finding safed cloakers, but if you knew there was a covops sat by a gate relaying intel, then he would be in for one helluva suprise. It is annoying to have a covops permanently sat in a system relaying intel with zero chance of being caught, but making it too easy to fnd them would be a mistake. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Ryo Jang Central Defiance Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:14:00 - [135] my thoughts.. cov ops: no change recons: no change bombers: no change fuel usage for the rest based on size of ship to be cloaked. could also use cap for it, to the point where itd eventually cap a ship out.
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:26:00 - [136] Looks like the anti-cloak crowd is getting their wish according to this thread... Originally by: CCP Fendahl The next patch also makes it possible to detect cloaked ships with scan probes...
Sekket Caldari White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:07:00 - [137] It's nice to see my idea gaining traction, and with a Dark Shikari post no less! However, I'm on the side of having the cloak overhead and blow up with the heat changes coming, at least when you try and run the cloak far too long.
Zaethiel Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:00:00 - [138] Naw just make it so cloaks have a 50% backfire rate and when they backfire your ship explodes and you get podded. Oh the hilarity of warping in on a belt only to see an isk farmer accidently self destruct 1/2 of the time. _________________________________________
Raediearn	Posted - 2007.08.09 02:26:00 - [139] /signed, this is a good idea. cloaks are being abused by 'afk' cloakers who sit in systems indefinitely.
PathetiQ Gallente The Rat Pack	Posted - 2007.08.09 02:49:00 - [140] Originally by: Raediearn /signed, this is a good idea. cloaks are being abused by 'afk' cloakers who sit in systems indefinitely. yeah your toooo right, lets **** the game for people who play it and destroy all recon and cov ops... wowo you guys got a great idea!!! AFK people arent really an issue just kill people that arent afk and stfu? AND ANOTHER USELESS NERFING THREAD!
Steel Tigeress Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.08.09 02:54:00 - [141] Quote: Stuck in a belt miles away from any support? well what did you think was going to happen? Risk/Reward anyone? you don't need a cloak to catch ratters in belts If you are not awake you are a target... Simple and true anywhere in eve. Point me to the risk an afk cloaker in a hostile system has, and then you can talk of risk/reward of cloaks.
Kieran Jarnush	Posted - 2007.08.09 03:06:00 - [142] Edited by: Kieran Jarnush on 09/08/2007 03:06:39 please stop with the oh so genious attempts at changing ships or modules this seriously has to come to an end! it makes simply no sense for covert ops cloacking devices. i don't argue about the other types of cloaks but it would smack right into the face of stealthbomber and combat recon pilots
Raediearn	Posted - 2007.08.09 03:29:00 - [143] Originally by: Steel Tigeress Edited by: Steel Tigeress on 09/08/2007 02:57:18 Quote: Stuck in a belt miles away from any support? well what did you think was going to happen? Risk/Reward anyone? you don't need a cloak to catch ratters in belts If you are not awake you are a target... Simple and true anywhere in eve. Point me to the risk an afk cloaker in a hostile system has, and then you can talk of risk/reward of cloaks. 'AFK' term is used but it is really indeterminable if they are or not. They may have left the room or they may have not or returned. There is no effort on their part at all. It is almost like the macro miner problem. If they are in a station, they can sit there all day but they don't know whats going on outside until they undock. But cloaked and 'afk' they can pop up right next to you at anytime that they choose without ever having to even monitor the game in the meanwhile. They are totally invulnarable. So I think the fuel idea is a good solution.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.09 03:36:00 - [144] Originally by: Steel Tigeress Point me to the risk an afk cloaker in a hostile system has, and then you can talk of risk/reward of cloaks. They have the same potential risk as any other hostile you are aware of, but unsure of location/ship. Enough risk to stop all operations in the system excepting an operation to remove the cloaker - usually a boring gatecamp, or a trap, which will invariably fail.
Dog Cancer Fade Defense Patrol	Posted - 2007.08.09 04:09:00 - [145] worst idea ever. Please read the Forum rules Impersonating another CCP employee is forbidden on the forum or in the game, even in jest. -Eldo
JamesTalon Caldari Electric Fury Corp	Posted - 2007.08.09 05:16:00 - [146] Look ma, I'm in a necro thread! Why is it that more necro's occur at night than any other time? Are people that bored? "Return with your shield, or on it."
Eval B'Stard	Posted - 2007.08.09 05:51:00 - [147] Originally by: JamesTalon Why is it that more necro's occur at night than any other time? Are people that bored? Short answer ... yes Longer Answer .... I'm bored at work (work in a call center, and get 5 maybe 6 calls a night) so I read the forums jotting down useful bits of info I find etc... Though I have never....yet, necro'd a thread
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2007.08.09 06:09:00 - [148] Originally by: Dark Shikari orginal post this is a good idea, just give bombers a reduction bonus and like he says either free or a huge bonus to covops HW use. this is a constructive nerf, and will go some way to helping the problem - however may just increase the classic logoffski
JamesTalon Caldari Electric Fury Corp	Posted - 2007.08.09 06:10:00 - [149] Originally by: Eval B'Stard Originally by: JamesTalon Why is it that more necro's occur at night than any other time? Are people that bored? Short answer ... yes Longer Answer .... I'm bored at work (work in a call center, and get 5 maybe 6 calls a night) so I read the forums jotting down useful bits of info I find etc... Though I have never....yet, necro'd a thread Lucky you, you can surf the net. I work at a call center myself, and can't get anywhere bu the Capital One website. I'm hoping to move to another program starting up there for iTunes tech support, its e-mail based, and hopefully can browse during down time PS: Capital One credit cards suck....and so do necro's! "Return with your shield, or on it."

Rauth Kivaro Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.08.09 08:13:00 - [150] Necro. Locked. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website


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