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3ll3 Gallente Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:17:00 - [61] Edited by: 3ll3 on 26/05/2007 18:23:17 It saddens greatly that these few close minded ignorant cowards would take the lives of so many just to kill those they feel have wronged them. Why do we even in this time and age of great accomplishments still lash out at that we fear, these cowards that initiated this bombing have no courage at all or they would have done face to face giving their own lives if needs be rather than participating in a way that would keep them safe and risk the lives of the innocent. Yes the ancestors of the Amarrian race did some thing most unpleasant and foul in the eyes of the Minmatar people and yes one part of their race betrayed them. But this happened so long ago and it is now we and eventualy our children and their children that must murder each other in cold blood just because ancient events of yesterday. We have a chance to end this cycle of blood and though I do not say either side may or may not be forgiven for such an action that happened so long ago, I am saying move on build for a better future for all our children, these peace talks offer our best chance to find a new way with out the needless death destruction of others. For me to even say this is hard as I was created for one purpose to kill and destroy, with out war and with out combat I would be lost with out purpose but I would willing brave the unknown for peace, all I ask is will any one else? Verus Amare Vinceres Omnis
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:28:00 - [62] Originally by: Mori Felding Quote: Bless the little spin doctors. Matari Citizens were not bombed to make a political point. A delegation of Nafanter traitors was bombed in an attempt to kill them. The civilian casualties are an unfortunate side effect of hiding the enemy behind a human shield. That's about the most stupid thing I heard in a long time, the only one spinning that is you, Thrace. The only one knowing they're a target is the bloody hands... They are Nafanter, they are race traitors. These are the ones who sold the rest of us out during the occupation. These are the ones who harbour slavers that prey on the border worlds. These are the ones who would sell the homeworld to Caldari mining corporations if they could only get control of it. If after a century of war with these collaborators the Bloody Hands of Matar are the only ones left in the Republic that see them as the enemy then it is a dark day for the Republic. It is quite clear that the Bloody Hands will strike at the enemy wherever and however they can. It is the responsibility of Midular and the other members of the Ammatar fan club to hold future talks away from Matari civilian populations. >> RECRUITING <<
GulletSplitter Minmatar Colonial Fleet Services	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:24:00 - [63] So what I'm getting from your posts Telemicus is that you are more interested in killing all the Ammatar then actually leading "our blood" to the cause of freedom. They are our blood even if they are misguided and blinded by the sermons of the Amarr. Wouldn't you rather turn them to the cause of freedom over keeping them as another tent in the camp of our enemy? And if so, doesn't helping them to the cause of our people require them to be alive? Attempting to blow up diplomatic efforts gives them no option other then to apostate themselves at the foot of the Amarr.
Mr Vapor Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:31:00 - [64] This is as fitting a place as any for me to make a statement. Although I am not currently a member of any Matari Nationalist group I made a promise here. I keep my promises. Marek Brandeira, you had your chance. I hereby offer 50 Million ISK for the head of the leader of the Bloody Hands of Matar. You decided again to put innocent Matari in the line of fire. For that I would have your corpse. I don't care what others think of this message. I don't care if you have a child and wife. I don't care if you're looked at as a hero. I do care that you didn't take a offered hand to do good for our people when you had the chance. Good luck, Marek. Unlike Midular, you'll be worth every penny.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:07:00 - [65] Originally by: GulletSplitter So what I'm getting from your posts Telemicus is that you are more interested in killing all the Ammatar then actually leading "our blood" to the cause of freedom. They are our blood even if they are misguided and blinded by the sermons of the Amarr. Wouldn't you rather turn them to the cause of freedom over keeping them as another tent in the camp of our enemy? And if so, doesn't helping them to the cause of our people require them to be alive? Attempting to blow up diplomatic efforts gives them no option other then to apostate themselves at the foot of the Amarr. Our people will be free forever when those who enslave them are dead and gone. Killing the slavers is one of many steps on the road to freeing the enslaved. The Nefanter tribe once shared the Council of Elders with the other tribes. The Amarr came. The Nefanter converted to the Amarrian faith in order to save themselves. They then went on to plunder the relics and property of the other tribes while at the same time putting the Amarrian whip to the backs of their former brothers. They commited the greatest act of treachery in our history. Why in the name of the gods would I want these filth at my back ready to do it all again? They serve the Amarr, they are our blood enemy. You speak of them being our blood? our people? Speak to any medi-tech and he will tell you our bodies are full of redundant and vestigal organs. They can be removed without harm to the body as they serve no purpose. They are left in place though until they become infected or cancerous. When they do they are cut out and destroyed. The Ammatar are the cancer in our body. They are the defective strands in our DNA. They are the notes of discord in our songs, they are the stink on the wind at our meals. We did not cast them out and wage war on them for a century for no reason. The war is not over, the uprising is not over. The Ammatar still seek to destroy the other tribes, they still serve the Amarr and they both still enslave and torture millions of our people. Now is not the time to give up, we must finish the work our ancestors began or it was all for nothing. >> RECRUITING <<
GulletSplitter Minmatar Colonial Fleet Services	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:06:00 - [66] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace They commited the greatest act of treachery in our history. Why in the name of the gods would I want these filth at my back ready to do it all again? They sure did. Now name me a current Ammatar that was involved in that act of treachery. Show me a current leader of our treacherous brethren that initiated and committed this great treachery in its infancy. This is a different group of Nefanter and a different group of leaders. Are they misguided ? Sure...but maybe we can help them get back on the path to freedom. What we could have now is the awakening of our lost brethren to the bed of vipers upon which their forefathers decided to lay. Just as UK has learned who their true allies and friends are....just maybe...the Nefanter have figured this out as well. None of us know at this point. So we're going to attempt to blow up their peace delegation prior to finding out what the talks are about? Midular and the Consulate are talking...so what...let them talk. Right now it's only talk. When we were lost and enslaved all we had was hope. Hope of a better future and a better tomorrow. Hope of freedom and a life controlled by and for our own. I will not turn my back on an entire set of our people because I will not crush their hope that one day all the tribes can be reunited in freedom. Their chance to taste what we have now should not stolen from them by us because we choose not to talk with them based on the actions of their fathers. You would annihilate millions of people whose politics you do not know. The current Ammatar don't get to pick their government like we get to pick out ours. You would write off as useless parts millions of children who have never had the taste or understanding of freedom. Children who are indoctrinated into a Amarr view of their past. When we were enslaved we could not very well speak out against our masters until the time was right. Are the Nefanter any different now? Maybe this is the start of them speaking out? We Minmatar always seek to free our people. The Nefanter are our people as much as any other of the tribes. They need freeing from the yoke of the Amarr just as much as all the other slaves in the Mandate and Empire. I will always seek the abolishment of slavery in any form. I stand not in the way of those of our people who choose to liberate our kin with violence but instead support them economically. At the same time I would hope that I could get the same understanding when I at times choose a diplomatic path. How we free our kin matters not...only that they get free. Of course I have to caveat this by saying if Midular comes out and does something truly stupid. I will be the first to stand by you and fight for freedom. Both sides of this argument are making an assumption. One side is assuming that nothing good can come of these talks. The other side only sees that something good can happen. My bet is that in reality nothing will come out of these talks. I would still like to see them talk in the off chance that something good comes out of it.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:02:00 - [67] With our technology there are some who could indeed have taken part in the original betrayal. Regardless, the more recent crimes of the Nafanter tribe and the rest of the Ammatar filth are just as unforgivable. If they wish to come back to the fold, if they wish to fight to free our people and make right the wrongs they have committed they can start with a few simple steps. 1) Free all slaves and POWs. 2) Renounce their false god and cease to practice the Amarrian religion. 3) Break off all diplomatic ties with the Amarr Empire beyond those held by the Republic. 4) Make the trafficing of slaves illegal in the Mandate. If they do this then I will be willing to entertain the notion they may have changed. They would still have a long road to walk before I call any of them kin but it would be a start. >> RECRUITING <<
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Rho Dynamics Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:34:00 - [68] Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 27/05/2007 05:34:50 Thrace, who the hell are you to bark orders at the Republic? Why shouldn't the Republic entertain peace talks? Because you said so? Because the river's of blood aren't quite high enough? Because your genocidal agenda hasn't been fufilled? I don't remember anyone mentioning intergrating or allying with the Mandate; hell the only thing on the table was a simple agreement to stop shooting at each other. This war has been going on for over a century, count 'em 100+ years; and the battle lines have barely changed since the innitial revolution. What more do you think can possibly be achieved? Have you aquired a Jove superweapon or something? 'Cause if you haven't I honestly don't know just how the hell you justify continuing this quagmire of a war. Here we have a real chance for progress; a chance for POWs to be reuinited with their families; a chance for the Fleet to focus it's time and attention on homeland security rather than pointless skirmishes with the Ammatar, and a chance for the next generation of Nefretar to see what the Republic really is all about; as opposed to what the get in their propaganda. You would burn this bridge why exactly? For the scores of slaves hopelessly deep behind enemy lines that haven fluxuated in decades? I'm against slavery as much as the next freedom loving Matari; hell seeing as how I was born into this barbaric system I'd be mad not to be, but this war serves noone but the gravediggers and munitions sellers. The numbers of families greiving over the scores of fallen far out number the that which would be liberated if this war were to continue. Finally, to be frank Thrace, as much hatred as you profess towards the Republic I don't see where the hell you get off on trying to dictate it's foreign policy. If you hate us so much stop barking out orders like you run the damn place, your insistance of sticking your nose into matters that don't involve you reminds me alot of the Imperial loyalists favorite card, the "rudely suggesting outrageous actions to nations we've publicly stated we want nothing to do with" card; it makes me wonder what else you've picked up from them. ----------------------------- Naturally my views are my own as I'm not my alliance's spokesman, ect.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:31:00 - [69] Originally by: Agustus Caesar Thrace, who the hell are you to bark orders at the Republic? Why shouldn't the Republic entertain peace talks? Because you said so? Because the river's of blood aren't quite high enough? Because your genocidal agenda hasn't been fufilled? .....You would burn this bridge why exactly? For the scores of slaves hopelessly deep behind enemy lines that haven fluxuated in decades?.... Finally, to be frank Thrace, as much hatred as you profess towards the Republic I don't see where the hell you get off on trying to dictate it's foreign policy. If you hate us so much stop barking out orders like you run the damn place, your insistance of sticking your nose into matters that don't involve you reminds me alot of the Imperial loyalists favorite card, the "rudely suggesting outrageous actions to nations we've publicly stated we want nothing to do with" card; it makes me wonder what else you've picked up from them. Stop crying boy. If you don't know who I am then you need to study the history of your own alliance for starters. A little over a year ago I sat on the Electus Matari ruling Council. You may not know me but I know the Electus Matari, I know you very well. I have voiced my opinion here on matters that concern me greatly. Being a free man alone grants me that right. I have spilled and shed blood for the Republic. I went further, I went to aid those who would take the fight to the enemy to free our people. When Karishal opened my eyes to the truth I followed him on the most successful military campaign against the slavers our people have seen since the uprising. For that I am branded a traitor and an outlaw by the Republic. Yet still I fight to free our brothers and send them back to the homeworld with the help of The Liberty Network. An organisation I founded to get freed slaves back to Republic space and to stem the tide of free workers being contracted in Republic space by slavers only to find themselves in chains once more. Even now I live as an outlaw on the rim of space fighting to halt the expansion of the Empire that seeks to put us all back into chains. That boy, in a nutshell, is who the hell I am. Show me, what orders have I barked at the Republic here? At what point have I professed hatred for the Republic? I see through Midular and know she serves the interests of the enemy over that of the Republic and it's people but that does not mean I hate the institution of the Republic. People I have freed and sent back to the homeworld regularly seek Federation citizenship to get away from the Republic. The Bloody Hands of Matar are gaining supporters every day, the dissillusionment they feel is growing. These are the very people the institution of the Republic was formed to serve. Not Midular, not the Nafanter, not their master the Amarr. Simply put the Republic has failed the majority of the Matari people, people I fight for daily. Regardless of whether your masters call me a traitor for not bowing mindlessly to their will I am very much involved in these matters. You can put words in my mouth, you can get all hot and bothered and you can insult me but it changes nothing that I have said and I am right. >> RECRUITING <<
KhanJohn Amarr Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:35:00 - [70] The Irony is that i can see all of the Electus Matari's good will and their talks on how its a different generation being forced into this war but the Ammatar still follow the Amarran way and have orders barked to them by the Amarran empire... Peace talks are all well and good but my people will never recognise your republic we merely recognise that there are a group of disruptive slaves occupying our sovreign territory... make friends with the Ammatar and pull your fleet away from their borders but when the Amarran empire settles down and eventually comes back round to the thinking that it can change peoples mind through force again which will eventually happen whether 50 years, 100 years or 1000 as long as the Ammatar are their friends and you have no forces guarding those borders dont come crying about what happened to the valiant defenders the Ushrakhan as the Amarran march into your territory slaughtering you wholesale... they see you as slaves....live with it or fight it....that is my people...they subvert, they convert or they kill...deal with it. People ask me what i am if i am not Amarran - i am a free "Amarri" all exiled amarrans who do not believe the tainted prophets are!
Mori Felding Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:37:00 - [71] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Originally by: GulletSplitter So what I'm getting from your posts Telemicus is that you are more interested in killing all the Ammatar then actually leading "our blood" to the cause of freedom. They are our blood even if they are misguided and blinded by the sermons of the Amarr. Wouldn't you rather turn them to the cause of freedom over keeping them as another tent in the camp of our enemy? And if so, doesn't helping them to the cause of our people require them to be alive? Attempting to blow up diplomatic efforts gives them no option other then to apostate themselves at the foot of the Amarr. Our people will be free forever when those who enslave them are dead and gone. Killing the slavers is one of many steps on the road to freeing the enslaved. The Nefanter tribe once shared the Council of Elders with the other tribes. The Amarr came. The Nefanter converted to the Amarrian faith in order to save themselves. They then went on to plunder the relics and property of the other tribes while at the same time putting the Amarrian whip to the backs of their former brothers. They commited the greatest act of treachery in our history. Why in the name of the gods would I want these filth at my back ready to do it all again? They serve the Amarr, they are our blood enemy. You speak of them being our blood? our people? Speak to any medi-tech and he will tell you our bodies are full of redundant and vestigal organs. They can be removed without harm to the body as they serve no purpose. They are left in place though until they become infected or cancerous. When they do they are cut out and destroyed. The Ammatar are the cancer in our body. They are the defective strands in our DNA. They are the notes of discord in our songs, they are the stink on the wind at our meals. We did not cast them out and wage war on them for a century for no reason. The war is not over, the uprising is not over. The Ammatar still seek to destroy the other tribes, they still serve the Amarr and they both still enslave and torture millions of our people. Now is not the time to give up, we must finish the work our ancestors began or it was all for nothing. Then maybe attack the delegation on mandate space? Or is that too demanding for the Bloody Hands? They're nothing more than race traitors themselves causing civilian death like that. Once I thought the Bloody Hands was to symbolize the blood of our enemies, not our own. ___ Memento Mori
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:13:00 - [72] Originally by: Mori Felding Originally by: Telemicus Thrace They are Nafanter, they are race traitors. These are the ones who sold the rest of us out during the occupation. These are the ones who harbour slavers that prey on the border worlds. These are the ones who would sell the homeworld to Caldari mining corporations if they could only get control of it. If after a century of war with these collaborators the Bloody Hands of Matar are the only ones left in the Republic that see them as the enemy then it is a dark day for the Republic. It is quite clear that the Bloody Hands will strike at the enemy wherever and however they can. It is the responsibility of Midular and the other members of the Ammatar fan club to hold future talks away from Matari civilian populations. Then maybe attack the delegation on mandate space? Or is that too demanding for the Bloody Hands? They're nothing more than race traitors themselves causing civilian death like that. Once I thought the Bloody Hands was to symbolize the blood of our enemies, not our own. To the best of my knowledge the Bloody Hands of Matar have at most a couple of pod pilots in their ranks. They are a group made up of Republic Citizens, they do not have access to the same resources as the pod pilot community so I would imagine, yes, it is too demanding for them to hit the delegation in Mandate space. As I have said twice already, all Midular has to do is hold the talks in the Mandate in future. Then decent Matari will be safe from being caught in the crossfire. >> RECRUITING <<
Mori Felding Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:20:00 - [73] Edited by: Mori Felding on 27/05/2007 10:21:57 Quote: As I have said twice already, all Midular has to do is hold the talks in the Mandate in future. Then decent Matari will be safe from being caught in the crossfire. A very good idea actually, if the conditions are any safer there anyhow. Not like having Ammatar civilians die is much better. ___ Memento Mori
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:25:00 - [74] Originally by: Mori Felding Edited by: Mori Felding on 27/05/2007 10:21:57 Quote: As I have said twice already, all Midular has to do is hold the talks in the Mandate in future. Then decent Matari will be safe from being caught in the crossfire. A very good idea actually, if the conditions are any safer there anyhow. Not like having Ammatar civilians die is much better. Well I would differ on that. If Midular and some Nefanter are the only ones in harms way I am a happy man. Sadly as you can see in other news I must cut my part in this debate short. Myself and my men are needed on the frontlines. >> RECRUITING <<
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Rho Dynamics Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:47:00 - [75] Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 27/05/2007 12:54:23 Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 27/05/2007 12:50:18 Originally by: Telemicus Thrace words I see you've also picked up the "completely dodge the point and brag about own exploits" card from the CVA as well. You still fail to give a valid reason as to why the Republic shouldn't persue peace talks with the Mandate; other than saying the baseless accusation that these are infact surrender talks. You say that the Republic doesn't adequately defend it's people? Even if it were true do you think that fighting an endless quagmire of a war against an enemy backed by the two largest nations in the cluster might have something to do with that? The Blood Hands are getting support? Why? Because they killed dozens of civilians to get a few unarmed diplomats? Bombing a populace and calling their deaths "collateral damage" is hardly the way to win them over. I might see the justification if those people were being held in slavery, destined for a long painful death anyway, but the civilians that died in that station were free civilians with no part in this conflict. You speak of the Bloody Hands as though they've done anything but murder a couple of Ammatar diplomats(killing plenty of Republic civilians in the process), hell untill recently the only thing they've managed to accomplish was turn a formerly peaceful demonstration into a bloodbath, getting dozens of the people they claim to fight for killed in the process; sounds like a good bunch of guys eh? I hope the UK still recognizes the folly in slaughtering their own kinsman, even if you don't. You want me to tell you what orders you've been barking out? Seems old age is getting to you so I'll repeat what you've been demanding of the nation you've abandoned so long ago. You keep attacking this peace process as though it's your fleets that are being destroyed in the skies above the Mandate, as if it's your families held in captivity in Mandate POW camps, as if it's your families dying in countless skirmishes every day that in the end acomplish nothing. So go right ahead, brag about your exploits some more, talk about how you used to be in a position to demand anything of the Republic, call me boy a few dozen more times, but for the love of all that's holy address the damn points already! KhanJohn, despite your flawed anysis of EM being an Amarr paramilitary (I don't remember taking orders from the Empire......ever) I'd like to thank you for actually addressing my points rather than braging as your colegue has. The Republic aren't in this deal to ally, capitulate, reassimilate, or do anything else with the Nefretar traitors other than sign a simple peace treaty. I imagine fleet strength along their borders would be comperable to that on the Amarrian border. By no means would the Republic recall it's fleets and go on a crash binge or something were a peace treaty to be signed; it'd still keep vigil over the gates, it would continue to advance it's technology at a rate exponentially faster than that of the Empire, and it would continue to sa***aurd the billions of it's citizens; only now without a quagmire to sap it's strength. And should the Amarr come knocking again the fleet will be prepared to push them back; and with the galaxy wide war that would enevitably bring the Ammatar's patrons would be too busy defending their own turf to assist; thus leaving us in a far better position to finish this than we are now.....indeed the only ones with any intrest in the peace talks failing are the Imperials. ----------------------------- Naturally my views are my own as I'm not my alliance's spokesman, ect.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:31:00 - [76] Originally by: KhanJohn The Irony is that i can see all of the Electus Matari's good will and their talks on how its a different generation being forced into this war but the Ammatar still follow the Amarran way and have orders barked to them by the Amarran empire... Peace talks are all well and good but my people will never recognise your republic we merely recognise that there are a group of disruptive slaves occupying our sovreign territory... make friends with the Ammatar and pull your fleet away from their borders but when the Amarran empire settles down and eventually comes back round to the thinking that it can change peoples mind through force again which will eventually happen whether 50 years, 100 years or 1000 as long as the Ammatar are their friends and you have no forces guarding those borders dont come crying about what happened to the valiant defenders the Ushrakhan as the Amarran march into your territory slaughtering you wholesale... they see you as slaves....live with it or fight it....that is my people...they subvert, they convert or they kill...deal with it. But a window of peace with the Ammatar, however brief, will give us a chance to build, to prepare. With a new Heir assuming the Throne soon, there is a distinct possibility we'll see the Amarr move towards an active war footing. When that day comes, we'll need every ship, every soldier, every ounce of trit and every single bullet we can lay our hands on. Yes, I too am inclined to think that when that day comes, the Ammatar will roll over and show their bellies to the slaver hound once again. But every single day we can maintain peace with the Ammatar is a day we can build more ships, instead of losing them. Every single soldier who comes home through the POW exchange, is a man not vanishing into the slave plantations of the Empire when they pick up the whip again. Every hour we have to prepare, is another Matari capsuleer entering training, or another refining his skills. We have to make the best of the time we have before the Amarr come. No one in the Republic will ever trust the Ammatar again. But we have to win what we can when the opportunity presents itself. I would sacrifice anything for my people. That includes revenge. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:14:00 - [77] Originally by: Agustus Caesar Originally by: Telemicus Thrace words I see you've also picked up the "completely dodge the point and brag about own exploits" card from the CVA as well. You still fail to give a valid reason as to why the Republic shouldn't persue peace talks with the Mandate. Look kid, you asked me who I am to speak about such things. I told you. Why should the Republic in my opinion not pursue peace talks with the Amarr? because they are the enemy and they talk peace only so they can betray the Matari people again. Surrender talks? you threw that one in there boy, not me. Originally by: Agustus Caesar You want me to tell you what orders you've been barking out? Seems old age is getting to you so I'll repeat what you've been demanding of the nation you've abandoned so long ago. Go on then... Originally by: Agustus Caesar You keep attacking this peace process as though it's your fleets that are being destroyed in the skies above the Mandate, as if it's your families held in captivity in Mandate POW camps, as if it's your families dying in countless skirmishes every day that in the end acomplish nothing. So go right ahead, brag about your exploits some more, talk about how you used to be in a position to demand anything of the Republic, call me boy a few dozen more times, but for the love of all that's holy address the damn points already! No, sorry. I don't see any orders I have barked in there. Perhaps you should speak to some of my squad, they well know it when I bark an order. You just seem to be complaining that I have achieved more battle honours than you. My fleets do sometimes get destroyed fighting in the Mandate. Sometimes we destroy the enemy fleet which of course is my preference. My people are being held in chains, to free them is why I fight the slavers at every turn. I fight them in the Mandate, in the Empire, The Bleak Lands and in Providence. Every single day. You? You whine that I do not address the points, I don't see you making one. Please, take a deep breath and try again. I will attempt to answer any valid points you can make as my schedule permits. Meanwhile I have a war to fight. >> RECRUITING <<
KhanJohn Amarr Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:31:00 - [78] Quote: As long as they're tied up with the Amarr, why would the republic move its ships from there? ill requote you what evanda said :) Quote: They get to keep our armed forces split between defending our internal space from raids and defending our borders with the Mandate. that entails we lower the amount of forces engaged on the border of Ammatar space....any lower force means a higher risk of attack. Quote: KhanJohn, despite your flawed anysis of EM being an Amarr paramilitary (I don't remember taking orders from the Empire......ever) I'd like to thank you for actually addressing my points rather than braging as your colegue has. The Republic aren't in this deal to ally, capitulate, reassimilate, or do anything else with the Nefretar traitors other than sign a simple peace treaty. I imagine fleet strength along their borders would be comperable to that on the Amarrian border. By no means would the Republic recall it's fleets and go on a crash binge or something were a peace treaty to be signed; it'd still keep vigil over the gates, it would continue to advance it's technology at a rate exponentially faster than that of the Empire, and it would continue to sa***aurd the billions of it's citizens; only now without a quagmire to sap it's strength. And should the Amarr come knocking again the fleet will be prepared to push them back; and with the galaxy wide war that would enevitably bring the Ammatar's patrons would be too busy defending their own turf to assist; thus leaving us in a far better position to finish this than we are now.....indeed the only ones with any intrest in the peace talks failing are the Imperials. when did i say EM was an amarran paramilitary i said with all your goodwill in this situation in regards to pow prisoner exchanges and moving forces to close the borders down if the war ends... my concern is the movement of republic forces away from the mandate borders...and on the subject of prisoner exchanges i seriously doubt that the Ammatars will give up all their enslaved prisoners if they follow the same line as the Amarrans...Midulars negotitaters will not bargain for this they just want peace but in the belief they can comftably sit and nothing will go wrong.... People ask me what i am if i am not Amarran - i am a free "Amarri" all exiled amarrans who do not believe the tainted prophets are!
Hiro Yuki Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:56:00 - [79] Thrace, I'm all for every last Ammatar, that still follows Amarrian ways, being hunted down and killed. Just not right now. These peace talks give us at least the opportunity to get back some slaves that are suffering out there, without any need for risk. The Ammatar aren't coming 'back into the fold'. There's no way in hell that most of Matari civilisation would accept them. If Midular offered that, she'd be laughed out of office rather than forced. But getting slaves back is a good thing. Surely you can see that? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions as to what Midular is going to be offering. Why don't we simply wait and see? Then we can decide what to do about it. Hiro Yuki
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:08:00 - [80] I'm ever so sorry people, I wandered in the wrong room of this summit and started my speech there, I must be getting old. ... I will repeat what I said in this proper discussion: Quote: Good honorable members of this summit, The Sebiestor Tribe is shocked by the bombings at the Republic Parliament Bureau station in Egbonbet. As too many details are not yet released to me to inform you more precise, we regret the loss of many of our own good men and women by the terrorist attack. We can however report that thanks to a quick response by members of Delictum 23216 who assisted the Republican Parliament Guards in preventing more hurt and damage to many in the station, casualties have been minimized. It was too late also for a Mandate consulate member, our thoughts go out to his family and friends. The Sebiestor Tribe will do everything in its power to assist Republic officials to track down the criminals and bring them to justice. By tribal custom, our Elders have advised the Republic that the Mandate can have first rights to judge the criminals in this matter. For further information we have to wait for Republican officials to comment further on this subject. RB join us today!
Mori Felding Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:19:00 - [81] KhanJohn, ofcourse the Mandate fleet would have to 'step down' as well. It's not like intelligence will not be around to track movement of fleets, at least that would highly naive not to have. In case of a massing fleet, the republic could bring back the ships. There's no reason they should hang there due to a 'just in case' scenario, that'd be a waste of resources. ___ Memento Mori
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:26:00 - [82] Edited by: Redbad on 27/05/2007 16:27:05 Originally by: Hiro Yuki Thrace, I'm all for every last Ammatar, that still follows Amarrian ways, being hunted down and killed. Just not right now. These peace talks give us at least the opportunity to get back some slaves that are suffering out there, without any need for risk. The Ammatar aren't coming 'back into the fold'. There's no way in hell that most of Matari civilisation would accept them. If Midular offered that, she'd be laughed out of office rather than forced. But getting slaves back is a good thing. Surely you can see that? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions as to what Midular is going to be offering. Why don't we simply wait and see? Then we can decide what to do about it. Hiro Yuki Your words are harsh Hiro Yuki, considering the fact that human loss also on the Mandate's side in this incident is to be considered. Karin Midular, although in difference with the Ushra'Khan, will do her utmost to have an outcome that is beneficial to all of the people the Republic, and to her people that cannot live in the freedom of her borders. Perhaps we should all consider that the path chosen by Karin Midular is different, but keep in mind that the Sebiestor will always fight for what is right; The freedom of our people and the wellbeing of the Republic. I encourage young Sebiestor to keep firing up the fight for what the Republic stands for, that they fight alongside the Ushra'Khan to free our people from the Ammarian Slavers, to spill Sebiestor blood as it was Ushra'Khan's blood. Sebiestor actions of our pilots should speak for them, not words that can be misinterpreted. The Sebiestor Elders, for whom I speak, have not yet lost their faith in the path chosen and in Karin Midular to guide the Republic down this difficult path. RB join us today!
Nebulous Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:29:00 - [83] Originally by: Redbad I'm ever so sorry people, I wandered in the wrong room of this summit and started my speech there, I must be getting old. ... I will repeat what I said in this proper discussion: Quote: Good honorable members of this summit, The Sebiestor Tribe is shocked by the bombings at the Republic Parliament Bureau station in Egbonbet. As too many details are not yet released to me to inform you more precise, we regret the loss of many of our own good men and women by the terrorist attack. We can however report that thanks to a quick response by members of Delictum 23216 who assisted the Republican Parliament Guards in preventing more hurt and damage to many in the station, casualties have been minimized. It was too late also for a Mandate consulate member, our thoughts go out to his family and friends. The Sebiestor Tribe will do everything in its power to assist Republic officials to track down the criminals and bring them to justice. By tribal custom, our Elders have advised the Republic that the Mandate can have first rights to judge the criminals in this matter. For further information we have to wait for Republican officials to comment further on this subject. RB While I commend your compasion for the civilians lost I feel your overall response somewhat offensive, firstly you do not ever thank delictum 23216 for anything other than them commiting voluntary suicide, they are scumbag slavers and traitors that deserve no thanks from someone like yourself. Secondly Im not sure who put you in the position to speak on behalf of the sebiestor tribe, if you can call it a tribe? I merely see it as a bloodline as I myself am a member of the thukker tribe. Also the mandate should never be allowed to judge any matari, there punishments would be a life of slavery which they inflict even on law abiding citizens.
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:03:00 - [84] Originally by: Nebulous Originally by: Redbad I'm ever so sorry people, I wandered in the wrong room of this summit and started my speech there, I must be getting old. ... I will repeat what I said in this proper discussion: Quote: Good honorable members of this summit, The Sebiestor Tribe is shocked by the bombings at the Republic Parliament Bureau station in Egbonbet. As too many details are not yet released to me to inform you more precise, we regret the loss of many of our own good men and women by the terrorist attack. We can however report that thanks to a quick response by members of Delictum 23216 who assisted the Republican Parliament Guards in preventing more hurt and damage to many in the station, casualties have been minimized. It was too late also for a Mandate consulate member, our thoughts go out to his family and friends. The Sebiestor Tribe will do everything in its power to assist Republic officials to track down the criminals and bring them to justice. By tribal custom, our Elders have advised the Republic that the Mandate can have first rights to judge the criminals in this matter. For further information we have to wait for Republican officials to comment further on this subject. RB While I commend your compasion for the civilians lost I feel your overall response somewhat offensive, firstly you do not ever thank delictum 23216 for anything other than them commiting voluntary suicide, they are scumbag slavers and traitors that deserve no thanks from someone like yourself. Secondly Im not sure who put you in the position to speak on behalf of the sebiestor tribe, if you can call it a tribe? I merely see it as a bloodline as I myself am a member of the thukker tribe. Also the mandate should never be allowed to judge any matari, there punishments would be a life of slavery which they inflict even on law abiding citizens. Our opinions differ, our blood remains the same. I voice the words of our Elders who have merely an advising role. I do not spread the words of Karin Midular, you have to got to Atbi Enonotur for that. It's not wise to heed volatile words in times like this. If only we could be more patient before we speak words of war. Because if it comes to that, rest assured we will listen to our boiling blood, not to opinions. RB join us today!
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:14:00 - [85] Tell me, how is Karin Midular going to sell out the Republic? Even if she plans to merge the Republic with the Mandate, do you think for one minute that the Republic would listen to her? These peace talks are intended to end a destructive war that has taken many lives on both sides, as well as free thousands of Minmatar held captive by the Ammatars. You have implied that you support the deaths of all the Ammatars. Let me create a scenario for you: The Ammatars agree to resume talks, only this time within Ammatar space, since they do not trust the RSS. The talks are held on an Ammatar station, with a civilian population in the tens of thousands. The Bloody Hands of Matar raise enough money to purchase a fusion round off the open market. They smuggle it onto the station and detonate it. The station is reduced to debris. Both the Minmatar and Ammatar delegations are killed, along with tens of thousands of Ammatar civilians. Would you support this massacre? Are all the Ammatars traitors? Or are they 'acceptable collateral damage'? ____________________________________ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom
Tahj Minmatar Strix Armaments and Defence The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:02:00 - [86] 'acceptable collateral damage'
Alywn Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:15:00 - [87] Originally by: Tahj 'acceptable collateral damage' Indeed, lets get the Thukker traitors as well whilst we're at it
Hiro Yuki Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:22:00 - [88] Quote: Your words are harsh Hiro Yuki, considering the fact that human loss also on the Mandate's side in this incident is to be considered. Not really, as far as I'm concerned. I'm all for killing all the Ammatar. I'm a Verokhior. I know who my ancestors were, unlike many other Minmatar. I know who lead them to the Amarrians in chains. Besides, I'm all for killing slavers. That's Ammatar as well. Any Ammatar who are against the Ammarian way are fine by me. Hiro Yuki
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:37:00 - [89] Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 29/05/2007 19:35:35 Originally by: Kabajashi San How can you say "I fight for the freedom of my brothers" when you do business with the ones enslaving them? You cannot force the Ammatar to do your will by waging unrestricted war. The surest way to achieve any goals is to enter respectful dialogue. Quote: And if you would really consider the protection of innocent lives your goal then there should be no hesitating in blowing up any Ammatar representative. Because more than the civilians surrounding him the slaves on his farm are innocent. Easy for you to say, demagogue. If you take a moment to think about your statement, you will see it is your views supporting killing those you consider innocent and worsening the conditions of those you wish to protect. You have no vision, or insight for that matter. Originally by: Kabajashi San ...at a government ignoring the rightful will of its people and their demand for clarification and information? Sometimes you have to think beyond the mob and realise that the role of a government is to act in the best interests of its people. The methods of achieving this is not always congruent with what people 'want'. Accept your place in the world order and achieve progress, or forever argue with the decisions of your betters and stagnate any possibility of change. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Hazor Dris Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:25:00 - [90] Apologies for the late reply; there have been strings of comms outages in our starbases as of late, and we are only now able to get through. After hearing of the recent bombings, NMTZ would like to officially extend a hand of aid to the surviving citizens and diplomats caught in the blast. To the families of the departed we offer our sorrows at their loss. NMTZ has always strived for the freedom of our fellow blood brethren held enslaved by the Amarr; this will never change. As the Ammatar hold the disciplines and teachings of the Amarr to heart, we generally have taken a hard stance against them. Nonetheless, terrorist actions during peace talks are completely uncalled for. We are outraged that the targets of these terrorists were non-combatants, of their own race and empire no less; killing the defenseless is weak and cowardly, and is an action reserved only for the lowest of scum. Once again, we are truely sorry that this horrible incident has happened. If the perpertrators are seen anywhere in Molden Heath, they will be hunted down and brought to justice. -Hazor Dris NMTZ Spokesperson

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