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Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.24 18:59:00 - [1] News has just come out regarding the bombing of the latest round of peace talks with the Mandate. Once again, we see heavy civilian casualties in the wake of a Bloody Hands of Matar attack - our hearts go out to the families of the victims, and our thanks to the members of RSS on the scene, whose quick response saved untold lives. And for what? The discussion of a possible route to peace. A discussion that could have seen numerous POWs returned to their homes and families. A spokesman for the Bloody Hands had this to say: ôWe will not sit idly by while our Republic kowtows to these race traitors who sold us out to the Amarr and even now keep our people in bondage. How dare we seek terms with these scum? It is a grave dishonour to the sacrifice of the great rebellion. Have we learned nothing? What we do, we do for Matar. There will be no peace with the Nefantar traitors.ö Have you learned nothing? The purpose of the Rebellion was to win our freedom, not propel the Matari into an endless war. Combat has its role to play, but there has to be room for peace talks or we will never get anywhere. How exactly do you think are helping Matar by killing its people? I can see how the Amarr benefit from this. I don't see how we do. The purpose of peace talks is to find out whether acceptable terms can be reached for both parties. That includes us Matari. It's generally a good idea to let them finish, as otherwise you don't know what will come. Midular could have won something great from this, for our people. But they have to get to the end for us to find that out! -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:09:00 - [2] In light of these attacks, EM would like to offer its services as escort to the Republican delegates for future rounds of the talks. We should not let 2 angry men imperil the return home of thousands of Matari held in Ammatar POW camps. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Micia Minmatar Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:20:00 - [3] Can't make an omelette with breakin' a few eggs... just sayin'. Step down, Karin Midular... or be taken down. The Republic needs new leadership. _______ Oppressed? Enslaved? Stand up and fight back!
Falcione Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:38:00 - [4] Originally by: Micia Can't make an omelette with breakin' a few eggs... Explosives usually make scrambled eggs... My Bio in Progress Prologue / CH.1
Robert Kauliford Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:44:00 - [5] Evanda i know our two corporations have had our differences in the past but we dealt with them honorably. These terrorists who claim to act for the people acted in a despicably cowrdly way attacking a delegation of peace I did not think that they could sink so low. Know that we the pilots of Delictum 23216 will do everything we can to bring these butchers to justice. To those who say this another reason for Midular to step down I say this she has acted with wisdom and vision in the best interests of all the tribes even if you are to blind to acknowledge it.
Tahj Minmatar Strix Armaments and Defence The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.24 21:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Evanda Char News has just come out regarding the http://myeve.eve-online.com/mb/news.asp?nid=1461 Have you learned nothing? The purpose of the Rebellion was to win our freedom, not propel the Matari into an endless war. Combat has its role to play, but there has to be room for peace talks or we will never get anywhere. The purpose of peace talks is to find out whether acceptable terms can be reached for both parties. That includes us Matari. It's generally a good idea to let them finish, as otherwise you don't know what will come. Midular could have won something great from this, for our people. But they have to get to the end for us to find that out! There can not be peace while our people remain in bondage. You said yourself Evanda that the perpose of the rebellion was to win our freedom, since a large majority of our people still live as slaves has the rebellion ever ended?? There is no middle ground here the idea is very simple, Free our brothers and sisters. The terrorists in this situation are the ones who would allow these talks to go on knowing that it will not bring an end to slavery. The blind ones in this struggle are the ones who choose to turn the other cheek. Midular did not do what is best for our people. These talks are simply a way to increase income and trade for both the republic and the Ammatar. Midular is selling the people for money placing us all back in the hands of bondage. Keep fighting Bloody hands, know that not all pod pilots are as blind as the Electus Matari
Gehenna's Voice Minmatar Children of Gehenna	Posted - 2007.05.24 21:42:00 - [7] There can be no compromise with Amarr without victory over Amarr. Did you learn nothing from the Rebellion? The slavers will only compromise when defeated. If you are too weak to see this, you are useless to us. This is only the latest hammer blow on the anvil that will shape the destiny of our people. Will you be the sword of our liberation or the dross that is cast aside? The Children of Gehenna are with you, Marek Brandeira. Our people will be avenged! - We will be avenged.
Anariel Andurill Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:04:00 - [8] I'm fairly new to all this but I was under the impression that EM were on the side of the Minmatar. At the very least i'd expect them to be understanding of such radical acts. You might disagree with them, as indeed you seem to be saying, but you must admit they're aiming for the same thing as you? The assumption i'm making is that both groups are fighting to free captured Minmatar people. Disagree with their method but condemning them and offering to fight against your own? You dilute the efforts to free the Minmatar people EM by claiming your way is the only one forward.
Theo Samaritan Gallente UNSC Manufactoring Corp	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:18:00 - [9] There are many paths towards a goal, those who choose one may not be those who choose another. The goal will be met no matter what path is taken. That is all. ______________________________ "To fight a war on the table, you must be able to fight a war on the front."
Revy Daidros Gallente Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:18:00 - [10] There was no offer to fight our own. She said it plainly: we shall offer our services to escort the diplomats. Innocents were killed in this dastard act, from my vantage, it appears the will of Electus Matari is to protect further innocents from dying. Something we have always- and will always, stand up for. <Broken Strands>
GulletSplitter Minmatar Colonial Fleet Services	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:25:00 - [11] There are many ways to freedom and not all of them have to come at the point of a gun. To assume that we have to blow up all our enemies to free our brethren is a bit small minded. While I know a good many Matari (including those of my corp) have and will continue to use violence to free our kin, others of us use different kinds of pressure. You can effect economic and societal change in many ways. None of us know what Midular has in mind with these talks. None of us know if anything fruitful other then a POW exchange will ever come of them. Because we don't understand the context or timbre of the talks, the Bloody Hand may have attacked prematurely. For all we know our "wayward brothers" (to borrow their terminology) in Ammatar could have been asking Midular for help overthrowing their masters. They could have also been asking for a giant freighter full of Cheese Nips. We won't know by simply blowing people up. All this leads to is a hardening of hearts and minds to "different" ways. Until we have a more firm understanding of what these talks entail, planned acts of violence (especially from followers of the Republic) will only lead to a hardening of Ammatar stances to our view points. After all they already think we are nothing but a bunch of barbaric terrorists. Why give them more ammo? All this being said, I will continue to supply my Republican friends with the money, time, expertise and goods they need to do WHATEVER it takes to see our brethren freed. There is a time for talks....and there is a time for the less sanguine approach. I for one prefer that we at least make an attempt at talking before whipping out the bloody hand.
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:46:00 - [12] I am stunned by these attacks. And after a bit of thought, I am making an announcement: I am retracting my previous calls for Midular to resign. To do so would destroy any chance for peace. Right now, we must show that we will not kowtow to terrorists. My lack of confidence in Midular was based on previous indecisiveness. If she can deal effectively with this crisis, my faith in her will be restored. Karin Midular, we are counting on you. Bloody Hands of Matar, what were you thinking? ____________________________________ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:47:00 - [13] Edited by: Evanda Char on 24/05/2007 22:48:39 Originally by: Anariel Andurill I'm fairly new to all this but I was under the impression that EM were on the side of the Minmatar. At the very least i'd expect them to be understanding of such radical acts. You might disagree with them, as indeed you seem to be saying, but you must admit they're aiming for the same thing as you? The assumption i'm making is that both groups are fighting to free captured Minmatar people. Disagree with their method but condemning them and offering to fight against your own? You dilute the efforts to free the Minmatar people EM by claiming your way is the only one forward. I'm not claiming our way is the only way forward. In fact, if you'd read this, rather the opposite. But the fact is that the Bloody Hands are not looking to achieve anything constructive here. They're not freeing people. They're not stopping further abductions. They're not even driving the enemy to seek a peaceful resolution through violent action. That's the thing. They're not fighting to free captured Minmatar. They're bombing Minmatar. They threw firebombs in riots and killed dozens of Matari. They bombed these peace talks and did it again. They're killing us. Our people. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:49:00 - [14] The damage done still remains to be tallied. An official Delictum 23216 statement will be made soon. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Kade Jeekin Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.24 23:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Evanda Char They threw firebombs in riots and killed dozens of Matari With respect Evanda Char. The firebombs were thrown at the security forces in response to provocation. It was the security forces who subsequently killed more people with their own reaction. The way you worded it, it made it sound like BHoM had killed the rioters. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.25 00:27:00 - [16] Once again the primitive immoralistic Minmatar reach out not with a hand of friendship or peace but with a bloodied hand of violence. While the Electus Matari may claim disgust at this action I would ask them if they would turn over to Ammatar authorities any Bloody Hands of Matar terrorist they captured for trial and execution? To respect the peace process and show respect for the Ammatar I would think a promise to do this would be at a minimum the least you could do. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP'S BLOG
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.25 00:37:00 - [17] The crime took place in a Republic Parliament station, Archbishop, in Republic space. The disposition of any Bloody Hands captured would be for the Republic to decide. Given that their activities are mostly planetary and station-based, I doubt their apprehension or not would fall to my hands. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
GulletSplitter Minmatar Colonial Fleet Services	Posted - 2007.05.25 01:19:00 - [18] Very useful post Archie...you have a group of the Matari actually preaching "give discussions a chance" and you call the whole of us Originally by: Archbishop primitive immoralistic Minmatar Really helps those of who are trying to be civil and resolve issues peacefully. Gosh I can't understand why UK and the others just flat out refuse to deal with any Amarr paramilitaries. I'm sure glad you are just a paramilitarist and not an actual member of the government.
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Rho Dynamics Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.25 02:35:00 - [19] Originally by: GulletSplitter Very useful post Archie...you have a group of the Matari actually preaching "give discussions a chance" and you call the whole of us Originally by: Archbishop primitive immoralistic Minmatar Really helps those of who are trying to be civil and resolve issues peacefully. Gosh I can't understand why UK and the others just flat out refuse to deal with any Amarr paramilitaries. I'm sure glad you are just a paramilitarist and not an actual member of the government. Couldn't have said it better myself; lets hope the Ammatar diplomats aren't quite so feble-minded as Archie here, otherwise these talks will prove to be waste of time and lives. ----------------------------- "Our nation, may she always be right, but our nation right or wrong." -Unknown
Mr Reeth Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.05.25 03:59:00 - [20] I am truly stunned that this comes as a surprise to anyone. These freedom fighters are only following the example set by their star traveling brothers. Really, is there any difference? Freedom Fighters do not just kill slavers. Freedom fighters also kill those that ally with the slavers. The first freedom fighters in the early days of the rebellion killed Minmatar who they saw as traitors. Most of these were of the Nefantar tribe. Freedom fighters today continue that tradition calling their brothers the Nefantar traitors and killing them whenever possible. And for what? They were trying and continue trying to make peace. They sought to trade the freedom of the Matari for peace. This is the same thing the current Republic administration is doing. So is it any surprise? For more than 100 years you Matari have made Amarrians the villain. You frighten children by telling them the Amarrians are trying to enslave the whole universe. (Knowing full well that the Empire has not tried to expand in more than 100 years) Your grandfathers told you wild tales of how many Nefantar and Amarrians they killed with farm tools. YouÆve made murder a romantic ideal. And the young of the Republic have picked up the torch. ItÆs such a shock that the offspring of rebels are rebelling. I wonder how you will all fair on the other side of a rebellion. So, before you condemn these brave and noble freedom fighters just look at your own words and actions. Have you ever talked with an Amarrian loyalist as if he were a human and not the devil in flesh? Have you ever tried to make peace with an Amarrian loyalist? No, you havenÆt. WeÆre just monstersà monsters to be killed. Then you return home and excite your children with the tale while the Amarrian child mourns his parents passing.
Chishan Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.25 04:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Mr Reeth I am truly stunned that this comes as a surprise to anyone. These freedom fighters are only following the example set by their star traveling brothers. Really, is there any difference? Freedom Fighters do not just kill slavers. Freedom fighters also kill those that ally with the slavers. The first freedom fighters in the early days of the rebellion killed Minmatar who they saw as traitors. Most of these were of the Nefantar tribe. Freedom fighters today continue that tradition calling their brothers the Nefantar traitors and killing them whenever possible. And for what? They were trying and continue trying to make peace. They sought to trade the freedom of the Matari for peace. This is the same thing the current Republic administration is doing. My freedom is no ones to trade. Interfere with the liberty of my people, my comrades, my crew, my ships or my person and you will find yourself at the business end of my guns. Originally by: Mr Reeth So is it any surprise? For more than 100 years you Matari have made Amarrians the villain. You frighten children by telling them the Amarrians are trying to enslave the whole universe. (Knowing full well that the Empire has not tried to expand in more than 100 years) Your grandfathers told you wild tales of how many Nefantar and Amarrians they killed with farm tools. YouÆve made murder a romantic ideal. And the young of the Republic have picked up the torch. ItÆs such a shock that the offspring of rebels are rebelling. I wonder how you will all fair on the other side of a rebellion. So, before you condemn these brave and noble freedom fighters just look at your own words and actions. Have you ever talked with an Amarrian loyalist as if he were a human and not the devil in flesh? Have you ever tried to make peace with an Amarrian loyalist? No, you havenÆt. WeÆre just monstersà monsters to be killed. Then you return home and excite your children with the tale while the Amarrian child mourns his parents passing. Forced Breeding Farms. Vitoc. Mind Control Implants. A doctrine of cultural genocide. Any Amarran that sees these things for the monstrosities they are, and forswears them, I am happy to call friend. In fact, I was following the orders of an Amarr on my last raid. They are quite enlightened when they have opened their eyes to the truth that darkness is the heart of the Amarr Empire.
Mr Reeth Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.05.25 05:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Chishan My freedom is no ones to trade. Interfere with the liberty of my people, my comrades, my crew, my ships or my person and you will find yourself at the business end of my guns. So will you attack or endorse attacks on the Republic? In entering any type of peace with an enslaving nation they are trading peace for the freedom of your people. Originally by: Chishan Forced Breeding Farms. Vitoc. Mind Control Implants. A doctrine of cultural genocide. Any Amarran that sees these things for the monstrosities they are, and forswears them, I am happy to call friend. In fact, I was following the orders of an Amarr on my last raid. They are quite enlightened when they have opened their eyes to the truth that darkness is the heart of the Amarr Empire. Forced Breeding farms are an abomination that only serve to strip people of humanity creating animals. The creation of a child should not be so cheapened. Vitoc dulls the mind and soul. How can we save a soul that has no competence to accept or deny our teachings? Vitoc is the tool of those who do not care for their slaves but see them as a tool to earn money. Truly vile. That goes double for brain implants. But those are not used in the Empire. You are mistaking the Empire for Sansha's Nation perhaps? So, are we friends now? I'm sorry you have such a mistakenly low opinion of the Empire. I understand that from where you sit the Empire must seem like a great loaded gun pointed at you. I wish it were possible for you to spend some time planet side to see what the real heart is like.
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Rho Dynamics Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.25 05:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Mr Reeth Originally by: Chishan My freedom is no ones to trade. Interfere with the liberty of my people, my comrades, my crew, my ships or my person and you will find yourself at the business end of my guns. So will you attack or endorse attacks on the Republic? In entering any type of peace with an enslaving nation they are trading peace for the freedom of your people. Originally by: Chishan Forced Breeding Farms. Vitoc. Mind Control Implants. A doctrine of cultural genocide. Any Amarran that sees these things for the monstrosities they are, and forswears them, I am happy to call friend. In fact, I was following the orders of an Amarr on my last raid. They are quite enlightened when they have opened their eyes to the truth that darkness is the heart of the Amarr Empire. Forced Breeding farms are an abomination that only serve to strip people of humanity creating animals. The creation of a child should not be so cheapened. Vitoc dulls the mind and soul. How can we save a soul that has no competence to accept or deny our teachings? Vitoc is the tool of those who do not care for their slaves but see them as a tool to earn money. Truly vile. That goes double for brain implants. But those are not used in the Empire. You are mistaking the Empire for Sansha's Nation perhaps? So, are we friends now? I'm sorry you have such a mistakenly low opinion of the Empire. I understand that from where you sit the Empire must seem like a great loaded gun pointed at you. I wish it were possible for you to spend some time planet side to see what the real heart is like. Incase you haven't noticed, Mr. Reeth, you're sadly in the minority in almost...all of the views you've just stated here. One doesn't have to look very far (infact Archbishop povides a fine example in this very thread) to see why most Minmatar aren't eager at best to deal with Amarr loyalists, what with the constant degrading and insults, why the hell would we be? Even what you lot call diplomatic ovetures are often laden with thinly vieled insults and threats. So even if we ignore the history between our two cultures, the complete lack of common courtesy that is all to common from your side of the fence often kills most chances at negotiation in the conceptual stage. That said, while you seem to be one of the more reasonable loyalists on this summit; you are sadly in the minorty: hence why your entire bloc gets the bad rap. Back on topic, the Bloody Hands of Matar slowly seem to be turning into what they claim to hate so passionately: that is a small group attempting to impose their will on the masses. While I may be pessimistic about what these talks will yield; murder of dozens of civilians just to get at a handfull of foreign delegates is completely unacceptable. If you truely want to help the cause of abolition, I strongly advise you stop murdering your own damn people and start shooting at some slave raiders; lest you make enemies of the very people you claim to act for. -Caesar ----------------------------- "Our nation, may she always be right, but our nation right or wrong." -Unknown
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.25 07:57:00 - [24] Barbaric. ----------------------------------------------
Mr Reeth Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:38:00 - [25] Edited by: Mr Reeth on 25/05/2007 08:38:12 Edited by: Mr Reeth on 25/05/2007 08:37:57 Originally by: Agustus Caesar Incase you haven't noticed, Mr. Reeth, you're sadly in the minority in almost...all of the views you've just stated here. One doesn't have to look very far (infact Archbishop povides a fine example in this very thread) to see why most Minmatar aren't eager at best to deal with Amarr loyalists, what with the constant degrading and insults, why the hell would we be? Even what you lot call diplomatic ovetures are often laden with thinly vieled insults and threats. So even if we ignore the history between our two cultures, the complete lack of common courtesy that is all to common from your side of the fence often kills most chances at negotiation in the conceptual stage. That said, while you seem to be one of the more reasonable loyalists on this summit; you are sadly in the minorty: hence why your entire bloc gets the bad rap. Ahhh... It's enough to make a mule laugh. You are accusing us of vicious verbal attacks as if your side is always civil. Look, I think we can all agree that both sides talk to each other in ways that fan the flames of hatred. It's understandable and even expected that one would not speak kindly to someone trying kill them. This forum for the free exchange of ideas often degenerates into something far less noble. But the point is well taken. We Amarrians hold our culture as the peak of civilization. I think perhaps the onus is on us to take the first steps in civil talks. However the Matari could disprove the accusations of barbarism by being the first to show civility. Originally by: Agustus Caesar If you truly want to help the cause of abolition, I strongly advise you stop murdering your own damn people and start shooting at some slave raiders; lest you make enemies of the very people you claim to act for. By ôslave raidersö I assume you mean the pirates, blood raiders and criminals who violate EMPIRE LAW by entering foreign space and taking slaves against their will. But do you think these freedom fighters are really any different from the rest? In their eyes they killed the enemy and traitors. For them it was a great day. If you want these attacks to stop it is the Matari pod-pilot communitiesÆ job to set a better example. These freedom fighters have modeled themselves on UK and EM. Do you really not see that they are doing what you do? And where do you think they get their weapons? I bet they called in some criminal friends. Sound familiar? And I still want to know if Chishan will be my firend.
Hiro Yuki Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:59:00 - [26] The Bloody Hand wish for the liberation of the Matari people. They sought to gain this by removing Midular. That is a very political move, which is good. Politics are a good thing. However, when their constant babble, not yet matured enough to cause any ripples, did not gain them anything, they turned to terrorism. Killing those they sought to liberate. They are like children who, when ignored by adults, throw their toys away and break them to gain attention. However, those toys have become dangerous enough for them to be close to being seen as an enemy to our people. If you stop your actions now and return to truly seeking the liberation of the Matari people, without killing those you seek to liberate, you may yet have a chance. Hiro Yuki
Chishan Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:22:00 - [27] Edited by: Chishan on 25/05/2007 10:24:34 Originally by: Mr Reeth And I still want to know if Chishan will be my firend. Renounce slavery and free your slaves, if you own any. We should be off to a good start after that. edit: Originally by: Hiro Yuki The Bloody Hand wish for the liberation of the Matari people. They sought to gain this by removing Midular. That is a very political move, which is good. Politics are a good thing. However, when their constant babble, not yet matured enough to cause any ripples, did not gain them anything, they turned to terrorism. Killing those they sought to liberate. They are like children who, when ignored by adults, throw their toys away and break them to gain attention. However, those toys have become dangerous enough for them to be close to being seen as an enemy to our people. If you stop your actions now and return to truly seeking the liberation of the Matari people, without killing those you seek to liberate, you may yet have a chance. Hiro Yuki Don't confuse the Bloody Hands with the Voices of Matar. These are two different groups, with similar goals but different means.
Rakiro Gallente Two Brothers Mining Corp. The Sundering	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:02:00 - [28] Clearly the Bloody Hands of Matar care nothing for the freedom of their people. The Ammatar have chosen their way of life on their own, and it seems the Bloody Hands are keen to deny them this right. Murdering civillians, especially duing peace talks, is not the way to free your people. Causing bloody-minded riots against your own government is not the way to free your own people. Denying people of the same blood as yourself their right to choose their own lifestyle is not the way to free your own people. In that respect they are no better than the Amarr they claim to hate so much as they are doing the exact same thing. I almost get the feeling they where just looking for an excuse to blow something up. -Rakiro
Anariel Andurill Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Rakiro Clearly the Bloody Hands of Matar care nothing for the freedom of their people. The Ammatar have chosen their way of life on their own, and it seems the Bloody Hands are keen to deny them this right. Using that logic you could defend slavery as being 'their choice in life to enslave others'. It simply doesn't hold up. There are moral imperatives in play and there is a lot morally wrong with the way the Ammatar destroyed much of the minmatar heritage for their own gain. Originally by: Rakiro Murdering civillians, especially duing peace talks, is not the way to free your people. Refusing to listen to your people when the protest peacefully isn't the way to govern but midular is getting away with it just fine by the looks of the news articles. Even ignoring the actions of the more extreme freedom fighters such as the Ushra'Khan. Which leads me into... Originally by: Rakiro Causing bloody-minded riots against your own government is not the way to free your own people. If they'd done this you'd be right but the report rather clearly shows that the riot police, the governments people, were the ones that started it and caused the casualties as a result of their actions. Originally by: Rakiro Denying people of the same blood as yourself their right to choose their own lifestyle is not the way to free your own people. The government didn't seem to see that distinction when they killed Karishal Muritor... Originally by: Rakiro In that respect they are no better than the Amarr they claim to hate so much as they are doing the exact same thing. I almost get the feeling they where just looking for an excuse to blow something up. No, I get the impression they want the same thing that the minmatar government is meant to be fighting for (and still does to some extent). They are fighting to liberate ALL Minmatar people and they don't believe that political back handed deals and shenanigans are the way to go. I base that assumption on their ongoing actions that show their distinct displeasure with the current government. (ooc: i may have spent a lot of the last day reading the back history! - how much do you guys write on here?!)
Alywn Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Micia Edited by: Micia on 24/05/2007 19:38:50 Can't make an omelette without breakin' a few eggs... just sayin'. Step down, Karin Midular... or be taken down. The Republic needs new leadership. Edit: Corrected quote Didn't Ushra'Khan turn thier back on the republic? If so then your views on who should lead it are as valid as those of CVA or PIE
Rakiro Gallente Two Brothers Mining Corp. The Sundering	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:13:00 - [31] Originally by: Anariel Andurill Using that logic you could defend slavery as being 'their choice in life to enslave others'. It simply doesn't hold up. There are moral imperatives in play and there is a lot morally wrong with the way the Ammatar destroyed much of the minmatar heritage for their own gain. If one chooses the life of a lapdog of the Amarr for themselves then that's their prerogative. If somone else chooses for them, that's when it becomes immoral. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way condoning slavery in any form, however committing further atrocities because of it will solve nothing. What do they hope to achieve? The Amarrians are not going to simply abandon all their spiritual beliefs because a few of their ships are destroyed or a few dignitaries killed. Originally by: Anariel Andurill Refusing to listen to your people when the protest peacefully isn't the way to govern but midular is getting away with it just fine by the looks of the news articles. Even ignoring the actions of the more extreme freedom fighters such as the Ushra'Khan. Midular most probably is ignoring the voices of groups like the Ushra'Khan who (admittedly understandably) call for Amarrian blood to be spilled, because she wants the Republic to enter an age of peace and prosperity rather exacting bloody retribution on their former oppressors, which would no doubt get even more matari killed, free and shackled alike. Originally by: Anariel Andurill If they'd done this you'd be right but the report rather clearly shows that the riot police, the governments people, were the ones that started it and caused the casualties as a result of their actions. Strange... I was under under the impression from the reports that the violence was started when a member of the crowd threw a firebomb at the riot police. Perhaps I misread. Originally by: Anariel Andurill The government didn't seem to see that distinction when they killed Karishal Muritor... One atrocity does not excuse another. Karishal Muritor was undoubtably a much loved figurehead, however I think he would be appalled if he found out that innocent Matari where being slaughtered by the very people who claim to fight for their freedom in his name. Originally by: Anariel Andurill No, I get the impression they want the same thing that the minmatar government is meant to be fighting for (and still does to some extent). They are fighting to liberate ALL Minmatar people and they don't believe that political back handed deals and shenanigans are the way to go. I base that assumption on their ongoing actions that show their distinct displeasure with the current government. The Bloody Hands may well be very unhappy with their current government, and given their history I can see why. But killing civilians will do nothing for their cause, it will only brand them as terrorists and further alienate them from their own people. The sooner they learn this the better, not only for their own sakes but the sakes of the innocents they might end up killing otherwise and for the sake of the Minmatar's goals. -Rakiro
Rakiro Gallente Two Brothers Mining Corp. The Sundering	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:14:00 - [32] Originally by: Evanda Char People do grasp what this potential exchange of POWs means, yes? It means swapping the Ammatar POWs we hold for the thousands of Minmatar soldiers, non-capsule pilots and marines currently held in camps and slavery by the Ammatar. And because this liberation isn't achieved at the literal point of a gun, you want to throw it away? We have no idea what else the Ammatar are putting on the table yet. Maybe they will ask for the unacceptable. Maybe they won't. But peace with the Mandate - that's peace, not reunification; no-one has even mentioned that prospect - will free up a large portion of our military who can turn their attention to defending our borders from further Amarr incursions and slave raids, which are coming thick and fast of late. We have a chance here to focus on the real enemy, a chance to pluck one of many thorns from our side, a chance to get a lot of our people safely home. We owe it to those people to let these negotiations run their course, to not let their chance at freedom slip away before we even know the price. Well said, Miss Char. Well said indeed. -Rakiro
DarVellon Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:30:00 - [33] Edited by: DarVellon on 25/05/2007 12:29:35 According to Republic Security officials, the bomb was a crude high-yield device which somehow went undetected by their security sensors until the time of activation. Originally by: Evanda Char We have a chance here to focus on the real enemy, a chance to pluck one of many thorns from our side, a chance to get a lot of our people safely home. Minmatar having peacetalks with Minmatar, getting blown up by other Minmatar.. I wonder how a 'crude' device was so well made as to go unnoticed by security forces, and who actually funds these 'Bloody Hands'... Now who could possibly see an advatantage in keeping the Minmatar people shooting and killing each other....
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Rho Dynamics Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:24:00 - [34] Originally by: Mr Reeth Ahhh... It's enough to make a mule laugh. You are accusing us of vicious verbal attacks as if your side is always civil. Look, I think we can all agree that both sides talk to each other in ways that fan the flames of hatred. It's understandable and even expected that one would not speak kindly to someone trying kill them. This forum for the free exchange of ideas often degenerates into something far less noble. But the point is well taken. We Amarrians hold our culture as the peak of civilization. I'll grant you that there's a fair share of virtol comming from our side of the fence, but a cursory look at these boards will reveal that most of it comes from yours, hard to be diplomatic with someone who's calling you a monkey Originally by: Mr Reeth I think perhaps the onus is on us to take the first steps in civil talks. However the Matari could disprove the accusations of barbarism by being the first to show civility. We've tried, usually this is met with spitting in our collective faces, some of us still try; hoping to find a loyalist capable of acting with dignity rather than the barbaric behavior they're so fond of accusing us of. Again if more loyalists were to simply show common courtesy (as you do) then I would think these boards would prove to be a much more plesant read. Again I concede that a fair share of the uncivil behavior comes from my bloc, but most of it is a reaction to the behavior comming from the loyalists. Originally by: Mr Reeth By ôslave raidersö I assume you mean the pirates, blood raiders and criminals who violate EMPIRE LAW by entering foreign space and taking slaves against their will. But do you think these freedom fighters are really any different from the rest? In their eyes they killed the enemy and traitors. For them it was a great day. If you want these attacks to stop it is the Matari pod-pilot communitiesÆ job to set a better example. These freedom fighters have modeled themselves on UK and EM. Do you really not see that they are doing what you do? And where do you think they get their weapons? I bet they called in some criminal friends. Sound familiar? Indeed I do. Be it rogue Imperial Navy slavers or Sansha's monsters; there plenty of targets for abolitionists to be killing, other than civilians and diplomats. As for the Bloody Hands they take after the Ushra'Khan if I'm not mistaken; not only do they not associate with Electus Matari, infact I'm fairly certian they hate us as they do all Republic paramilitaries. Hell even the Ushra'Khan condemned them for their murder of Matari people, and the Hands had a falling out with them ever since. While I'm not saying I support terrorism I was just pointing out the inherit stupidity of bombing the people one claims to be acting for. ----------------------------- Naturally my views are my own as I'm not my alliance's spokesman, ect.
Camar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:37:00 - [35] HIRD will be following and monitoring this situation closely. Although we are not very happy about talks of peace with the nefantar, that is the path the Republic has taken and HIRD will not interfere at this stage.
GulletSplitter Minmatar Colonial Fleet Services	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:26:00 - [36] I for one would like to hear from the Bloody Hand to see their reasonings. Maybe they have some insider information that we don't know about. Cause if they don't and it was solely an attack against a politician that they find unpalatable, the loss of civilian life is totally unexcusable.
Chishan Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Alywn Originally by: Micia Edited by: Micia on 24/05/2007 19:38:50 Can't make an omelette without breakin' a few eggs... just sayin'. Step down, Karin Midular... or be taken down. The Republic needs new leadership. Edit: Corrected quote Didn't Ushra'Khan turn thier back on the republic? If so then your views on who should lead it are as valid as those of CVA or PIE You've got that backwards. The Republic has turned it's back on us. While we continue with the work of the Rebellion, the Republic has done nothing but throw stumbling blocks in our way and persecute our leaders. The next time you see a Vitoc addict in the throes of withdrawal, ask yourself who has abandoned who. The Republic may have turned it's back on us, but we still fight for the people.
Sue So Meth Labs	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:43:00 - [38] Shocked and saddened by the recent news. This proves that it is time to call for outside assistance in the peace process. Although not a Citizen of either the Mandate or the Republic, I have conducted enough business in these parts of the World to identify with its inhabitants and to see the potential of both their labor and the resources that they currently control. Before this most recent violence, a prosperous future seemed to be in store for all parties involved. This, unfortunately, seems no longer to be the case. At the very least, this last event has proven that the Matari peoples are incapable of resolving their differences alone. This is why I suggest that outside, impartial groups be included in the current process to help maintain the peace and order that the San Matar and Heimatar governments require to work out their differences. With CONCORD working over-time dealing with freighter-raiders in previously-considered highly-secure systems, the individual, responsible nations of the World should be called on. Those on Pator, therefore, should take advantage of the offer from New Caldari to take over security and specialized administrative duties in Republic systems bordering the State--as well as in any other sectors that the Minmatar leadership is apparently having difficulty controlling the inflow of undesirable and malicious influences; e.g., the Barvigrard and Hed constellations. By taking over patrol and other assorted duties in these out-of-the-way systems, the Caldari State would be doing a great service to the peace process by freeing up Minmatar forces to deal with the internal vectors that are blocking the path to peaceful and more productive relations with neighbors such as the Ammatars.
Mr Reeth Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:49:00 - [39] Originally by: Chishan Renounce slavery and free your slaves, if you own any. We should be off to a good start after that. Well, I can meet you halfway there. I am, in fact a big supporter of slavery. Surrendering oneÆs will and material possessions is a big part of the path to enlightenment. When stripped of the petty distractions of our world one can truly find inner peace. I may even enter slavery myself upon retirement. I would prefer a life of farming and prayer to that of endless murder and conflict. But my duty to defend the Empire and her citizens is clear. IÆm sure you understand that. That being said I am against FORCED slavery. I think the time of the Empire expanding by military might and force feeding the universe truth is at its end. ItÆs a relic of the past and in the past worked well. But the universe has changed and we must change with it. Many Amarrians feel this way. One of the primary differences between Amarrians and Minmatar is patience. We are willing to wait for slavery to end. We are willing to wait for thousands of years if need be. This is our strength. Despite personal views, we all pull in the same direction rather than get frustrated with each other and go off on our own. As far as my slaves goà I think if I wanted to liberate them I would need to call in marines to remove them from my property. I wonÆt go into too much detail here but they are all willing Intaki slaves rescued from the Federation. I understand if you find it hard to believe, so did Federation Customs officers. They held us all for three days while they made sure everyone was leaving of their own free will. The facility has no vitoc, collars or forced breedingà though one woman did just have a baby. We are well on our way to having tea in your ship.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:05:00 - [40] It saddens me to hear of innocent casualties. However I have often been forced to risk innocent lives while raiding slaver convoys so I cannot sit in judgement of The Bloody Hands of Matar. Midular and her treacherous cabinet know full well that the people are against this clandestine deal to sell our people out to the Nafanter. They know full well that any such meetings with our blood enemies will be a target. It was short sighted and irresponsible of them to hold this meeting in a Republic facility that houses Matari civilians. Perhaps darker still they are adopting the tactics of those they would call master and used the inhabitants of the station as a human shield. The Mandate is the perfect home for race traitors, Midular and her lackies should hold their meetings there. Even better if they do not return to Republic space when they are done selling the Matari people out. The Nafanter betrayed us once, they will do it again. The only peace they should be offered is the peace of death. The Rebellion is not over, our work is not yet done, our people are not yet free. We are at war and those who fraternise with the enemy in secret should be exposed and put to the trials. One ISK for Midular. >> RECRUITING <<
Chishan Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:59:00 - [41] Originally by: Mr Reeth Originally by: Chishan Renounce slavery and free your slaves, if you own any. We should be off to a good start after that. Well, I can meet you halfway there. I am, in fact a big supporter of slavery. Surrendering oneÆs will and material possessions is a big part of the path to enlightenment. When stripped of the petty distractions of our world one can truly find inner peace. I may even enter slavery myself upon retirement. I would prefer a life of farming and prayer to that of endless murder and conflict. But my duty to defend the Empire and her citizens is clear. IÆm sure you understand that. That being said I am against FORCED slavery. I think the time of the Empire expanding by military might and force feeding the universe truth is at its end. ItÆs a relic of the past and in the past worked well. But the universe has changed and we must change with it. Many Amarrians feel this way. One of the primary differences between Amarrians and Minmatar is patience. We are willing to wait for slavery to end. We are willing to wait for thousands of years if need be. This is our strength. Despite personal views, we all pull in the same direction rather than get frustrated with each other and go off on our own. As far as my slaves goà I think if I wanted to liberate them I would need to call in marines to remove them from my property. I wonÆt go into too much detail here but they are all willing Intaki slaves rescued from the Federation. I understand if you find it hard to believe, so did Federation Customs officers. They held us all for three days while they made sure everyone was leaving of their own free will. The facility has no vitoc, collars or forced breedingà though one woman did just have a baby. We are well on our way to having tea in your ship. I would hesitate to call people in such a position slaves. At least in the classic sense. Servants, employees or even serfs is closer to the truth. It seems to me that you have entered a mutual arrangement with these people, where you have assumed certain responsibilities for each other. In any case, these Intaki seem to have made the choice of their own free will. Where there is free will, slavery can not exist. I think that maybe you just give lip service to slavery so as not to incur the wrath of the power mongering elite. Perhaps tea is in order, if we ever have the opportunity in neutral space. It can certainly be conducive to good conversation. On the field however, I cannot promise the same courtesy. I am sure you understand and I expect no quarter from you in the same situation.
Nebulous Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:17:00 - [42] While I value the work electus matari does for our enslaved brothers and sisters, I cant help but feel their love for the republic is far to strong, its time for you to see the republic for what it really is! A hive of corruption, it is rotten to the core, so much so that it can no longer be salvaged, we do not need a new prime minister to run the republic, we need the republic to be tottaly disbanded by revolutionary action if need be and a tottaly new government put in its place. As I speak these words, republic agents are sending pilots to slaughter members of the thukker tribe because a small percent of us engage in piratical activities, yet at the same time they speak peace with the ammatar's who have helped to and will continue to help with enslaving us. nebulous spits on the republic This recent act of aggresion by the "bloody hands of matar" was comletely justified, it is a shame for the civilians killed and my compasion goes out to their families. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Mori Felding Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:16:00 - [43] Edited by: Mori Felding on 26/05/2007 12:15:30 The republic is all we have, at least those of us that hasn't deserted it yet. Whatever this corruption you speak of is, Nebulous, I don't quite see it, at least not yet. In what form is this corruption you accuse it of? ___ Memento Mori
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Nebulous While I value the work electus matari does for our enslaved brothers and sisters, I cant help but feel their love for the republic is far to strong... I disagree with you on this Brother. The Electus Matari and others like them love the Republic to the point that they think Midular and her nest of traitors are the Republic. They do not love the dream of the Republic enough. The Republic is an ideal, it is a fragile dream given form by the blood of our people. Sadly it is a dream that has slowly turned to nightmare. There are many of us not blinded to the reality by the dream, Ushra'Khan, Fimbulwinter, the Thukker, those who now hold Federation citizenship and many others who may not wish me to name them. The Republic the ancestors fought for and built was supposed to unify the tribes, preserve our culture and rebuild what we lost so long ago at the hands of the Amarr. Instead the dream has been perverted to the point that many of us would have no part of it. It has been twisted to become not our salvation but instead our slow road back to chains. The Republic is a mechanism that is supposed to serve the people. The Republic is the people, our people. At least it should be but that is the dream. Who has created this mockery of what our forefathers fought for? As always the Nafanter and the Amarr that hold their leash! Karin Midular is nothing more than an agent of the slavers and she seeks to do their work. If you love the dream of the Republic then you love our people. If you love our people then you will take up your Khumaak, raise your bloodied fist in the air and Rise! >> RECRUITING <<
Nebulous Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Mori Felding Edited by: Mori Felding on 26/05/2007 12:15:30 The republic is all we have, at least those of us that hasn't deserted it yet. Whatever this corruption you speak of is, Nebulous, I don't quite see it, at least not yet. In what form is this corruption you accuse it of? For example the backhanders officials take in exchange for slavers safe passage through republic space. Simply talking to our true enemies while they send pilots to kill members of the thukker tribe is corrupt within itself, did the ammatar help in the rebelion? NO!, did the thukker tribe? YES!. Oh and lets not forget the cowardly and vile murder of karishal.
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:33:00 - [46] Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 26/05/2007 12:32:18 ----------------------------------------- Now recruiting.
Hiro Yuki Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:34:00 - [47] U'K, you're turning into a disgrace. I've long admired your actions, but now? You're dangerously on the edge of becoming nothing more than the Bloody Hands. You think that killing Matari is a good idea? Killing lots of Matari to get rid of one single person? That's disgusting. I find your words disgusting. The Republic is there for a reason. Midular is NOT the Republic. There are ways to remove Midular that do not involve what is rapidly descending into civil war. Is that what you want? Where you and the Bloody Hand kill thousands of our people to send a message to one? You say that EM and people like them love the Republic too much. Well you hate it too much. The Republic is important. Midular is nothing compared to it. Your hate of it is leading you down a dark path and if you do not stop, you will be as bad as the Amarr you fight daily. Civil War is not the solution. Use politics, or have you forgotten how to use your voice now that you have used your guns so much? Hiro Yuki
Mori Felding Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:35:00 - [48] Edited by: Mori Felding on 26/05/2007 12:34:45 Something is only corrupt if it defies its own principles, not if it works in a way you don't like. You're merely generalizing out of your own opinion now. The republic as an institution is bound by law, the ideal, and that is why it cannot serve the second aspect of tradition and 'morally correct' behavior as in the minds of most Minmatar. Likewise it is the reason why the republic should remain while the leader might be a bit too dubious at the moment for everyone's taste. It's how it works, it's how it supposed to work, the few must sacrifice for the many.. as you say yourself, Nebulous. The law has no feelings. If people want to commit crimes however, and they feel its for a good cause, then that's fine, as long as they're willing to face the consequences.. and that's including the ones in the top of the republic. You may have a point about the slavers safe passage, but I didn't quite understand it (something in exchange for safe passage, didnt get if it was illegal or not). ___ Memento Mori
Nebulous Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:46:00 - [49] Originally by: Hiro Yuki U'K, you're turning into a disgrace. I've long admired your actions, but now? You're dangerously on the edge of becoming nothing more than the Bloody Hands. You think that killing Matari is a good idea? Killing lots of Matari to get rid of one single person? That's disgusting. I find your words disgusting. The Republic is there for a reason. Midular is NOT the Republic. There are ways to remove Midular that do not involve what is rapidly descending into civil war. Is that what you want? Where you and the Bloody Hand kill thousands of our people to send a message to one? You say that EM and people like them love the Republic too much. Well you hate it too much. The Republic is important. Midular is nothing compared to it. Your hate of it is leading you down a dark path and if you do not stop, you will be as bad as the Amarr you fight daily. Civil War is not the solution. Use politics, or have you forgotten how to use your voice now that you have used your guns so much? Hiro Yuki I am guessing you are refering to some of my opinions on this matter, to point your finger at ushra'khan for what some of us say is very unfair, when I speak I speak as a member of the thukker tribe, if I am speaking on behalf of ushra'khan then I will say so. Its all about freedom you see, a freedom some of our brothers and sisters dont have, its the ability to speak for myself. Some organisations gag their members from speaking of things that go against the most popular views, This is why I am a proud member of ushra'khan, we all fight for freedom and always will.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:03:00 - [50] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Originally by: Nebulous While I value the work electus matari does for our enslaved brothers and sisters, I cant help but feel their love for the republic is far to strong... I disagree with you on this Brother. The Electus Matari and others like them love the Republic to the point that they think Midular and her nest of traitors are the Republic. They do not love the dream of the Republic enough. The Republic is an ideal, it is a fragile dream given form by the blood of our people. Sadly it is a dream that has slowly turned to nightmare. There are many of us not blinded to the reality by the dream, Ushra'Khan, Fimbulwinter, the Thukker, those who now hold Federation citizenship and many others who may not wish me to name them. The Republic the ancestors fought for and built was supposed to unify the tribes, preserve our culture and rebuild what we lost so long ago at the hands of the Amarr. Instead the dream has been perverted to the point that many of us would have no part of it. It has been twisted to become not our salvation but instead our slow road back to chains. The Republic is a mechanism that is supposed to serve the people. The Republic is the people, our people. At least it should be but that is the dream. Who has created this mockery of what our forefathers fought for? As always the Nafanter and the Amarr that hold their leash! Karin Midular is nothing more than an agent of the slavers and she seeks to do their work. If you love the dream of the Republic then you love our people. If you love our people then you will take up your Khumaak, raise your bloodied fist in the air and Rise! Telemicus, I don't want to seem sharp with you but what you're telling me I think, ties in nowhere with anything I've actually said. My concern here is very simple. I want to see that exchange of POWs happen, and from what we know of the talks so far the price does not seem to high. Indeed, the granting of N'dorian mining rights could be a very good asset for Republican corporations, who are willing to buy far more ore than is currently available. You've heard our views on the events surrounding Muritor's death. We would still like answers from the Republic on that. You know full well that we know the Republic is far more than any one leader - it will outlast any single Prime Minister. That doesn't change the fact that bombing Matari civilians to make a political point is an abhorrent act. Would you care to tell the families of the station administrators, the secretaries, the janitors that you think their loved ones' deaths are acceptable? Would you care to explain to them that it's Midular's fault that Blood of Matar acquired the materials he needed, built this bomb, installed it on the station and detonated it? Want to tell the families of our soldiers currently held in the Mandate that they won't be coming home after all, because you're really sure the Ammatar would have asked for something unacceptable, eventually? Who benefits if the Bloody Hands successfully derail these peace talks? Well, let's see. The Amarr Empire gets to keep its favourite lapdog, the Ammatar. They get to keep our armed forces split between defending our internal space from raids and defending our borders with the Mandate. They get to keep Mandate forces attacking us and oh-so-slowly pressing us into a losing position - and you can call for people to take up arms and fight as much as you wish, but they already are! It's only been with these peacetalks there's been any cessation on that front, not because there's been any lack of volunteers. So if the Bloody Hands derail the peace talks, who wins? -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Alywn Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:47:00 - [51] Originally by: Nebulous Simply talking to our true enemies while they send pilots to kill members of the thukker tribe is corrupt within itself, did the ammatar help in the rebelion? NO!, did the thukker tribe? YES!. Did the Thukker tribe refuse to take part in the formation of the Republic? Every Thukker tribe member i have ever been sent to deal with has been engaged in acts of piracy in Republic space and has fired upon me first. They chose their actions they dealt with the consequences. Or is that unacceptable to you that the republic deals with criminals rather than let them go because they were once on the same side?
Chishan Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:49:00 - [52] Originally by: Hiro Yuki U'K, you're turning into a disgrace. I've long admired your actions, but now? You're dangerously on the edge of becoming nothing more than the Bloody Hands. You think that killing Matari is a good idea? Killing lots of Matari to get rid of one single person? That's disgusting. I find your words disgusting. The Republic is there for a reason. Yet there are Thukker being slaughtered daily. Who is the murderer of Matari here? Perhaps we wouldn't be losing the war against the Mandate if we weren't pulling troops from that conflict to murder our own brothers. Originally by: Hiro Yuki Midular is NOT the Republic. There are ways to remove Midular that do not involve what is rapidly descending into civil war. Is that what you want? Where you and the Bloody Hand kill thousands of our people to send a message to one? Ways like peaceful protests? Under the watchful eye of Midulars security forces, these have been a success, haven't they? When was the last public rally that you remember? Originally by: Hiro Yuki You say that EM and people like them love the Republic too much. Well you hate it too much. The Republic is important. Midular is nothing compared to it. Your hate of it is leading you down a dark path and if you do not stop, you will be as bad as the Amarr you fight daily. Civil War is not the solution. Use politics, or have you forgotten how to use your voice now that you have used your guns so much? Hiro Yuki Politics? Politics are lies and manipulation to keep the power hungry in power. Politics grinds the people under the jackboot. Politicians are all too quick to trade away what doesn't belong to them. Politics are a corruption of the Natural Law that our Ancestors held in trust. 1 ISK for Midular.
Alywn Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:13:00 - [53] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace The Electus Matari and others like them love the Republic to the point that they think Midular and her nest of traitors are the Republic. They do not love the dream of the Republic enough. Where did you get this idea from? Originally by: Telemicus Thrace The Republic is an ideal, it is a fragile dream given form by the blood of our people. Sadly it is a dream that has slowly turned to nightmare. There are many of us not blinded to the reality by the dream, Ushra'Khan, Fimbulwinter, the Thukker, those who now hold Federation citizenship and many others who may not wish me to name them. So the actual people of the republic are deluded fools? Originally by: Telemicus Thrace The Republic the ancestors fought for and built was supposed to unify the tribes, preserve our culture and rebuild what we lost so long ago at the hands of the Amarr. Instead the dream has been perverted to the point that many of us would have no part of it. It has been twisted to become not our salvation but instead our slow road back to chains. Have you actually any proof of this or is this just you opinion? We have not abandoned the Republic, either the reality or the dream because it is the only hope for our people, without it we would be easy prey for those who would destroy us. To destroy or destabilize the Republic would put those who live there at risk. I guess that those who want this are the enemies of the Minmatar people, because their actions threaten them Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Who has created this mockery of what our forefathers fought for? As always the Nafanter and the Amarr that hold their leash! Karin Midular is nothing more than an agent of the slavers and she seeks to do their work. So in our serving the republic does that make us agents of the Slavers as well?
Nebulous Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:40:00 - [54] Originally by: Alywn Originally by: Nebulous Simply talking to our true enemies while they send pilots to kill members of the thukker tribe is corrupt within itself, did the ammatar help in the rebelion? NO!, did the thukker tribe? YES!. Did the Thukker tribe refuse to take part in the formation of the Republic? Every Thukker tribe member i have ever been sent to deal with has been engaged in acts of piracy in Republic space and has fired upon me first. They chose their actions they dealt with the consequences. Or is that unacceptable to you that the republic deals with criminals rather than let them go because they were once on the same side? So what your saying is that you cant think for yourself? because your agent "told" you that they were pirates you just believed it? Its called propaganda, your agents can not prove that the thukker tribe members you shoot are pirates, yet its common knowledge that the ammatar betrayed and enslaved our people, so why shoot thukkers and talk peace with the ammatar? Whats worse? Smuggling a few illegal goods or putting children into a life of slavery? I put it to all republic loyal organisations that the republic contracts against the thukker tribe are because they get in the way of talks with the ammatar, its no secret that the thukker tribe organise regular and succesful raids against the ammatar and this is seen by the republic as an obstacle in the way of there eventual attempt to merge the republic with the traitors.
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Rho Dynamics Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:46:00 - [55] Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 26/05/2007 15:53:08 Originally by: Nebulous So what your saying is that you cant think for yourself? because your agent "told" you that they were pirates you just believed it? Its called propaganda, your agents can not prove that the thukker tribe members you shoot are pirates, yet its common knowledge that the ammatar betrayed and enslaved our people, so why shoot thukkers and talk peace with the ammatar? Whats worse? Smuggling a few illegal goods or putting children into a life of slavery? I put it to all republic loyal organisations that the republic contracts against the thukker tribe are because they get in the way of talks with the ammatar, its no secret that the thukker tribe organise regular and succesful raids against the ammatar and this is seen by the republic as an obstacle in the way of there eventual attempt to merge the republic with the traitors. Oh come on now, you speak of the Thukker as though they were saints. First off you ignore the whole "they shot first" part of Alywn's statement; secondly, are you really naive enough to think the violence doesn't go both ways? For a while I did contract work for Thukker Mix (guess what tribe they belong to), on multiple occasions my agent tried to order me to attack Republic, CONCORD, even Federation naval forces; after repeatedly trying to get me to attack allied forces I eventually cut all ties to the Thukker corporation. Oddly enough however, they never even attempted to deploy me against Amarr or Ammatar forces. The Thukker have no room to play the innocent victim card. ----------------------------- Naturally my views are my own as I'm not my alliance's spokesman, ect.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:07:00 - [56] Originally by: Evanda Char .... Telemicus, I don't want to seem sharp with you but what you're telling me I think, ties in nowhere with anything I've actually said... Telling you? when did I address you? Anything you say does not change my opinions of this news or on the state of the Republic. Originally by: Evanda Char ... That doesn't change the fact that bombing Matari civilians to make a political point is an abhorrent act. ... Bless the little spin doctors. Matari Citizens were not bombed to make a political point. A delegation of Nafanter traitors was bombed in an attempt to kill them. The civilian casualties are an unfortunate side effect of hiding the enemy behind a human shield. I hear the same thing from slavers all the time. The twisted reasoning that if a few Matari die when I attack a convoy yet a hundred are saved it is somehow wrong of me to raid the convoy. Better to keep my hands clean of blood and let a hundred die in the camps rather than risk the lives of a few? I think not. If the Republic and the Slavers have such a concern for the well being of the Matari people they can hold their talks away from the civillian populace and when they find their convoys under attack they can peacefully heave to and transfer their hostages safely to us. Originally by: Alywn .... Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Who has created this mockery of what our forefathers fought for? As always the Nafanter and the Amarr that hold their leash! Karin Midular is nothing more than an agent of the slavers and she seeks to do their work. So in our serving the republic does that make us agents of the Slavers as well? Your desperate attempts to spin my words remind me of the same gibberish the slavers come out with. You are worse at it even than them. >> RECRUITING <<
Nebulous Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:07:00 - [57] Originally by: Agustus Caesar Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 26/05/2007 15:53:08 Originally by: Nebulous So what your saying is that you cant think for yourself? because your agent "told" you that they were pirates you just believed it? Its called propaganda, your agents can not prove that the thukker tribe members you shoot are pirates, yet its common knowledge that the ammatar betrayed and enslaved our people, so why shoot thukkers and talk peace with the ammatar? Whats worse? Smuggling a few illegal goods or putting children into a life of slavery? I put it to all republic loyal organisations that the republic contracts against the thukker tribe are because they get in the way of talks with the ammatar, its no secret that the thukker tribe organise regular and succesful raids against the ammatar and this is seen by the republic as an obstacle in the way of there eventual attempt to merge the republic with the traitors. Oh come on now, you speak of the Thukker as though they were saints. First off you ignore the whole "they shot first" part of Alywn's statement; secondly, are you really naive enough to think the violence doesn't go both ways? For a while I did contract work for Thukker Mix (guess what tribe they belong to), on multiple occasions my agent tried to order me to attack Republic, CONCORD, even Federation naval forces; after repeatedly trying to get me to attack allied forces I eventually cut all ties to the Thukker corporation. Oddly enough however, they never even attempted to deploy me against Amarr or Ammatar forces. The Thukker have no room to play the innocent victim card. So a thukker convoy gets aproached by a pilot with high standing to the republics security services? So what would that pilot be doing there? After a game of chess maybe? They know what the score is my friend, kill or be killed. Its funny you highlighted CONCORD, yet another filth encrusted and corrupt organisation, just another organisation that dictates what is right and wrong, however in general they tend to believe that slavery is fine as long as they get a backhander of ISK. You also missed my point, I know that the thukker tribe are no angels, but they can never be accused of inflicting slavery onto children, this is the worst crime in the eyes of a matari, yet the republic talks with those that inflict this form of suffering do they not? So I ask again, why talk peace with the ammatar and shoot the thukker tribe?
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Rho Dynamics Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:36:00 - [58] Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 26/05/2007 16:37:03 Originally by: Nebulous You also missed my point, I know that the thukker tribe are no angels, but they can never be accused of inflicting slavery onto children, this is the worst crime in the eyes of a matari, yet the republic talks with those that inflict this form of suffering do they not? So I ask again, why talk peace with the ammatar and shoot the thukker tribe? Because the Thukker Tribe are notorious pirates, the fact they call themselves a tribe and occasionally shoot at our enemies doesn't change that; they're little better than the Angel Cartel or Serpentis Corporation. Additionally there is no state of formal war with the Thukker, apparently they don't feel the need to declare one before shooting at our ships; the Ammatar on the other hand we do have a formal state of war with. The Ammatar hold scores of our soldiers in their POW camps, all that's required to free them and put them into reeducation classes (to reverse the inevitable brainwashing) is to end a war that for the past 100 years has gotten both sides nothing but suffering and death. Unless there's some superweapon or revolutionary weapons technology I haven't heard about, I don't see the bloody stalemate ending any time soon. Therefore we are left with two choices as I see it: we can either listen to a hand full of angry exiles who for the most part haven't so much as been in the Republic in ages; or we can listen to the leaders of our government who undoubtedly have much more information on the war status than we do...............tough choice there . Stop trying to spin these talks into the Republic grab-assing with the Mandate; because you damn well know that's not the case. ----------------------------- Naturally my views are my own as I'm not my alliance's spokesman, ect.
Hiro Yuki Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:13:00 - [59] Quote: Ways like peaceful protests? Under the watchful eye of Midulars security forces, these have been a success, haven't they? When was the last public rally that you remember? What apart from all the recent rallies you mean? The ones with banners with your nice little '1ISK' slogan on it? I've seen them. Perhaps you're blind. Maybe they're dwindling though since the Dober Harn riot was originally a peaceful rally. And then the Bloody Hand threw a firebomb and turned it into a riot. So... are we allowed to rally anymore? Or will the Bloody Hand, and maybe even U'K come and cause rioting and bloodshed? Hiro Yuki
Mori Felding Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:48:00 - [60] Edited by: Mori Felding on 26/05/2007 17:46:53 Quote: Bless the little spin doctors. Matari Citizens were not bombed to make a political point. A delegation of Nafanter traitors was bombed in an attempt to kill them. The civilian casualties are an unfortunate side effect of hiding the enemy behind a human shield. That's about the most stupid thing I heard in a long time, the only one spinning that is you, Thrace. The only one knowing they're a target is the bloody hands, thus the its solely their responsibility that they think its perfectly ok to kill SEVERAL MATARI PEOPLE for a strike at a mandate delegation OF PEACE. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand here, or have you completely lost your mind? The minmatar civilians are the ones we're all trying to protect, at least that's what I thought until now that it seems you're too busy to add them to the butchers bill to even care. ___ Memento Mori
3ll3 Gallente Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:17:00 - [61] Edited by: 3ll3 on 26/05/2007 18:23:17 It saddens greatly that these few close minded ignorant cowards would take the lives of so many just to kill those they feel have wronged them. Why do we even in this time and age of great accomplishments still lash out at that we fear, these cowards that initiated this bombing have no courage at all or they would have done face to face giving their own lives if needs be rather than participating in a way that would keep them safe and risk the lives of the innocent. Yes the ancestors of the Amarrian race did some thing most unpleasant and foul in the eyes of the Minmatar people and yes one part of their race betrayed them. But this happened so long ago and it is now we and eventualy our children and their children that must murder each other in cold blood just because ancient events of yesterday. We have a chance to end this cycle of blood and though I do not say either side may or may not be forgiven for such an action that happened so long ago, I am saying move on build for a better future for all our children, these peace talks offer our best chance to find a new way with out the needless death destruction of others. For me to even say this is hard as I was created for one purpose to kill and destroy, with out war and with out combat I would be lost with out purpose but I would willing brave the unknown for peace, all I ask is will any one else? Verus Amare Vinceres Omnis
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:28:00 - [62] Originally by: Mori Felding Quote: Bless the little spin doctors. Matari Citizens were not bombed to make a political point. A delegation of Nafanter traitors was bombed in an attempt to kill them. The civilian casualties are an unfortunate side effect of hiding the enemy behind a human shield. That's about the most stupid thing I heard in a long time, the only one spinning that is you, Thrace. The only one knowing they're a target is the bloody hands... They are Nafanter, they are race traitors. These are the ones who sold the rest of us out during the occupation. These are the ones who harbour slavers that prey on the border worlds. These are the ones who would sell the homeworld to Caldari mining corporations if they could only get control of it. If after a century of war with these collaborators the Bloody Hands of Matar are the only ones left in the Republic that see them as the enemy then it is a dark day for the Republic. It is quite clear that the Bloody Hands will strike at the enemy wherever and however they can. It is the responsibility of Midular and the other members of the Ammatar fan club to hold future talks away from Matari civilian populations. >> RECRUITING <<
GulletSplitter Minmatar Colonial Fleet Services	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:24:00 - [63] So what I'm getting from your posts Telemicus is that you are more interested in killing all the Ammatar then actually leading "our blood" to the cause of freedom. They are our blood even if they are misguided and blinded by the sermons of the Amarr. Wouldn't you rather turn them to the cause of freedom over keeping them as another tent in the camp of our enemy? And if so, doesn't helping them to the cause of our people require them to be alive? Attempting to blow up diplomatic efforts gives them no option other then to apostate themselves at the foot of the Amarr.
Mr Vapor Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:31:00 - [64] This is as fitting a place as any for me to make a statement. Although I am not currently a member of any Matari Nationalist group I made a promise here. I keep my promises. Marek Brandeira, you had your chance. I hereby offer 50 Million ISK for the head of the leader of the Bloody Hands of Matar. You decided again to put innocent Matari in the line of fire. For that I would have your corpse. I don't care what others think of this message. I don't care if you have a child and wife. I don't care if you're looked at as a hero. I do care that you didn't take a offered hand to do good for our people when you had the chance. Good luck, Marek. Unlike Midular, you'll be worth every penny.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:07:00 - [65] Originally by: GulletSplitter So what I'm getting from your posts Telemicus is that you are more interested in killing all the Ammatar then actually leading "our blood" to the cause of freedom. They are our blood even if they are misguided and blinded by the sermons of the Amarr. Wouldn't you rather turn them to the cause of freedom over keeping them as another tent in the camp of our enemy? And if so, doesn't helping them to the cause of our people require them to be alive? Attempting to blow up diplomatic efforts gives them no option other then to apostate themselves at the foot of the Amarr. Our people will be free forever when those who enslave them are dead and gone. Killing the slavers is one of many steps on the road to freeing the enslaved. The Nefanter tribe once shared the Council of Elders with the other tribes. The Amarr came. The Nefanter converted to the Amarrian faith in order to save themselves. They then went on to plunder the relics and property of the other tribes while at the same time putting the Amarrian whip to the backs of their former brothers. They commited the greatest act of treachery in our history. Why in the name of the gods would I want these filth at my back ready to do it all again? They serve the Amarr, they are our blood enemy. You speak of them being our blood? our people? Speak to any medi-tech and he will tell you our bodies are full of redundant and vestigal organs. They can be removed without harm to the body as they serve no purpose. They are left in place though until they become infected or cancerous. When they do they are cut out and destroyed. The Ammatar are the cancer in our body. They are the defective strands in our DNA. They are the notes of discord in our songs, they are the stink on the wind at our meals. We did not cast them out and wage war on them for a century for no reason. The war is not over, the uprising is not over. The Ammatar still seek to destroy the other tribes, they still serve the Amarr and they both still enslave and torture millions of our people. Now is not the time to give up, we must finish the work our ancestors began or it was all for nothing. >> RECRUITING <<
GulletSplitter Minmatar Colonial Fleet Services	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:06:00 - [66] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace They commited the greatest act of treachery in our history. Why in the name of the gods would I want these filth at my back ready to do it all again? They sure did. Now name me a current Ammatar that was involved in that act of treachery. Show me a current leader of our treacherous brethren that initiated and committed this great treachery in its infancy. This is a different group of Nefanter and a different group of leaders. Are they misguided ? Sure...but maybe we can help them get back on the path to freedom. What we could have now is the awakening of our lost brethren to the bed of vipers upon which their forefathers decided to lay. Just as UK has learned who their true allies and friends are....just maybe...the Nefanter have figured this out as well. None of us know at this point. So we're going to attempt to blow up their peace delegation prior to finding out what the talks are about? Midular and the Consulate are talking...so what...let them talk. Right now it's only talk. When we were lost and enslaved all we had was hope. Hope of a better future and a better tomorrow. Hope of freedom and a life controlled by and for our own. I will not turn my back on an entire set of our people because I will not crush their hope that one day all the tribes can be reunited in freedom. Their chance to taste what we have now should not stolen from them by us because we choose not to talk with them based on the actions of their fathers. You would annihilate millions of people whose politics you do not know. The current Ammatar don't get to pick their government like we get to pick out ours. You would write off as useless parts millions of children who have never had the taste or understanding of freedom. Children who are indoctrinated into a Amarr view of their past. When we were enslaved we could not very well speak out against our masters until the time was right. Are the Nefanter any different now? Maybe this is the start of them speaking out? We Minmatar always seek to free our people. The Nefanter are our people as much as any other of the tribes. They need freeing from the yoke of the Amarr just as much as all the other slaves in the Mandate and Empire. I will always seek the abolishment of slavery in any form. I stand not in the way of those of our people who choose to liberate our kin with violence but instead support them economically. At the same time I would hope that I could get the same understanding when I at times choose a diplomatic path. How we free our kin matters not...only that they get free. Of course I have to caveat this by saying if Midular comes out and does something truly stupid. I will be the first to stand by you and fight for freedom. Both sides of this argument are making an assumption. One side is assuming that nothing good can come of these talks. The other side only sees that something good can happen. My bet is that in reality nothing will come out of these talks. I would still like to see them talk in the off chance that something good comes out of it.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:02:00 - [67] With our technology there are some who could indeed have taken part in the original betrayal. Regardless, the more recent crimes of the Nafanter tribe and the rest of the Ammatar filth are just as unforgivable. If they wish to come back to the fold, if they wish to fight to free our people and make right the wrongs they have committed they can start with a few simple steps. 1) Free all slaves and POWs. 2) Renounce their false god and cease to practice the Amarrian religion. 3) Break off all diplomatic ties with the Amarr Empire beyond those held by the Republic. 4) Make the trafficing of slaves illegal in the Mandate. If they do this then I will be willing to entertain the notion they may have changed. They would still have a long road to walk before I call any of them kin but it would be a start. >> RECRUITING <<
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Rho Dynamics Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:34:00 - [68] Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 27/05/2007 05:34:50 Thrace, who the hell are you to bark orders at the Republic? Why shouldn't the Republic entertain peace talks? Because you said so? Because the river's of blood aren't quite high enough? Because your genocidal agenda hasn't been fufilled? I don't remember anyone mentioning intergrating or allying with the Mandate; hell the only thing on the table was a simple agreement to stop shooting at each other. This war has been going on for over a century, count 'em 100+ years; and the battle lines have barely changed since the innitial revolution. What more do you think can possibly be achieved? Have you aquired a Jove superweapon or something? 'Cause if you haven't I honestly don't know just how the hell you justify continuing this quagmire of a war. Here we have a real chance for progress; a chance for POWs to be reuinited with their families; a chance for the Fleet to focus it's time and attention on homeland security rather than pointless skirmishes with the Ammatar, and a chance for the next generation of Nefretar to see what the Republic really is all about; as opposed to what the get in their propaganda. You would burn this bridge why exactly? For the scores of slaves hopelessly deep behind enemy lines that haven fluxuated in decades? I'm against slavery as much as the next freedom loving Matari; hell seeing as how I was born into this barbaric system I'd be mad not to be, but this war serves noone but the gravediggers and munitions sellers. The numbers of families greiving over the scores of fallen far out number the that which would be liberated if this war were to continue. Finally, to be frank Thrace, as much hatred as you profess towards the Republic I don't see where the hell you get off on trying to dictate it's foreign policy. If you hate us so much stop barking out orders like you run the damn place, your insistance of sticking your nose into matters that don't involve you reminds me alot of the Imperial loyalists favorite card, the "rudely suggesting outrageous actions to nations we've publicly stated we want nothing to do with" card; it makes me wonder what else you've picked up from them. ----------------------------- Naturally my views are my own as I'm not my alliance's spokesman, ect.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:31:00 - [69] Originally by: Agustus Caesar Thrace, who the hell are you to bark orders at the Republic? Why shouldn't the Republic entertain peace talks? Because you said so? Because the river's of blood aren't quite high enough? Because your genocidal agenda hasn't been fufilled? .....You would burn this bridge why exactly? For the scores of slaves hopelessly deep behind enemy lines that haven fluxuated in decades?.... Finally, to be frank Thrace, as much hatred as you profess towards the Republic I don't see where the hell you get off on trying to dictate it's foreign policy. If you hate us so much stop barking out orders like you run the damn place, your insistance of sticking your nose into matters that don't involve you reminds me alot of the Imperial loyalists favorite card, the "rudely suggesting outrageous actions to nations we've publicly stated we want nothing to do with" card; it makes me wonder what else you've picked up from them. Stop crying boy. If you don't know who I am then you need to study the history of your own alliance for starters. A little over a year ago I sat on the Electus Matari ruling Council. You may not know me but I know the Electus Matari, I know you very well. I have voiced my opinion here on matters that concern me greatly. Being a free man alone grants me that right. I have spilled and shed blood for the Republic. I went further, I went to aid those who would take the fight to the enemy to free our people. When Karishal opened my eyes to the truth I followed him on the most successful military campaign against the slavers our people have seen since the uprising. For that I am branded a traitor and an outlaw by the Republic. Yet still I fight to free our brothers and send them back to the homeworld with the help of The Liberty Network. An organisation I founded to get freed slaves back to Republic space and to stem the tide of free workers being contracted in Republic space by slavers only to find themselves in chains once more. Even now I live as an outlaw on the rim of space fighting to halt the expansion of the Empire that seeks to put us all back into chains. That boy, in a nutshell, is who the hell I am. Show me, what orders have I barked at the Republic here? At what point have I professed hatred for the Republic? I see through Midular and know she serves the interests of the enemy over that of the Republic and it's people but that does not mean I hate the institution of the Republic. People I have freed and sent back to the homeworld regularly seek Federation citizenship to get away from the Republic. The Bloody Hands of Matar are gaining supporters every day, the dissillusionment they feel is growing. These are the very people the institution of the Republic was formed to serve. Not Midular, not the Nafanter, not their master the Amarr. Simply put the Republic has failed the majority of the Matari people, people I fight for daily. Regardless of whether your masters call me a traitor for not bowing mindlessly to their will I am very much involved in these matters. You can put words in my mouth, you can get all hot and bothered and you can insult me but it changes nothing that I have said and I am right. >> RECRUITING <<
KhanJohn Amarr Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:35:00 - [70] The Irony is that i can see all of the Electus Matari's good will and their talks on how its a different generation being forced into this war but the Ammatar still follow the Amarran way and have orders barked to them by the Amarran empire... Peace talks are all well and good but my people will never recognise your republic we merely recognise that there are a group of disruptive slaves occupying our sovreign territory... make friends with the Ammatar and pull your fleet away from their borders but when the Amarran empire settles down and eventually comes back round to the thinking that it can change peoples mind through force again which will eventually happen whether 50 years, 100 years or 1000 as long as the Ammatar are their friends and you have no forces guarding those borders dont come crying about what happened to the valiant defenders the Ushrakhan as the Amarran march into your territory slaughtering you wholesale... they see you as slaves....live with it or fight it....that is my people...they subvert, they convert or they kill...deal with it. People ask me what i am if i am not Amarran - i am a free "Amarri" all exiled amarrans who do not believe the tainted prophets are!
Mori Felding Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:37:00 - [71] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Originally by: GulletSplitter So what I'm getting from your posts Telemicus is that you are more interested in killing all the Ammatar then actually leading "our blood" to the cause of freedom. They are our blood even if they are misguided and blinded by the sermons of the Amarr. Wouldn't you rather turn them to the cause of freedom over keeping them as another tent in the camp of our enemy? And if so, doesn't helping them to the cause of our people require them to be alive? Attempting to blow up diplomatic efforts gives them no option other then to apostate themselves at the foot of the Amarr. Our people will be free forever when those who enslave them are dead and gone. Killing the slavers is one of many steps on the road to freeing the enslaved. The Nefanter tribe once shared the Council of Elders with the other tribes. The Amarr came. The Nefanter converted to the Amarrian faith in order to save themselves. They then went on to plunder the relics and property of the other tribes while at the same time putting the Amarrian whip to the backs of their former brothers. They commited the greatest act of treachery in our history. Why in the name of the gods would I want these filth at my back ready to do it all again? They serve the Amarr, they are our blood enemy. You speak of them being our blood? our people? Speak to any medi-tech and he will tell you our bodies are full of redundant and vestigal organs. They can be removed without harm to the body as they serve no purpose. They are left in place though until they become infected or cancerous. When they do they are cut out and destroyed. The Ammatar are the cancer in our body. They are the defective strands in our DNA. They are the notes of discord in our songs, they are the stink on the wind at our meals. We did not cast them out and wage war on them for a century for no reason. The war is not over, the uprising is not over. The Ammatar still seek to destroy the other tribes, they still serve the Amarr and they both still enslave and torture millions of our people. Now is not the time to give up, we must finish the work our ancestors began or it was all for nothing. Then maybe attack the delegation on mandate space? Or is that too demanding for the Bloody Hands? They're nothing more than race traitors themselves causing civilian death like that. Once I thought the Bloody Hands was to symbolize the blood of our enemies, not our own. ___ Memento Mori
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:13:00 - [72] Originally by: Mori Felding Originally by: Telemicus Thrace They are Nafanter, they are race traitors. These are the ones who sold the rest of us out during the occupation. These are the ones who harbour slavers that prey on the border worlds. These are the ones who would sell the homeworld to Caldari mining corporations if they could only get control of it. If after a century of war with these collaborators the Bloody Hands of Matar are the only ones left in the Republic that see them as the enemy then it is a dark day for the Republic. It is quite clear that the Bloody Hands will strike at the enemy wherever and however they can. It is the responsibility of Midular and the other members of the Ammatar fan club to hold future talks away from Matari civilian populations. Then maybe attack the delegation on mandate space? Or is that too demanding for the Bloody Hands? They're nothing more than race traitors themselves causing civilian death like that. Once I thought the Bloody Hands was to symbolize the blood of our enemies, not our own. To the best of my knowledge the Bloody Hands of Matar have at most a couple of pod pilots in their ranks. They are a group made up of Republic Citizens, they do not have access to the same resources as the pod pilot community so I would imagine, yes, it is too demanding for them to hit the delegation in Mandate space. As I have said twice already, all Midular has to do is hold the talks in the Mandate in future. Then decent Matari will be safe from being caught in the crossfire. >> RECRUITING <<
Mori Felding Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:20:00 - [73] Edited by: Mori Felding on 27/05/2007 10:21:57 Quote: As I have said twice already, all Midular has to do is hold the talks in the Mandate in future. Then decent Matari will be safe from being caught in the crossfire. A very good idea actually, if the conditions are any safer there anyhow. Not like having Ammatar civilians die is much better. ___ Memento Mori
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:25:00 - [74] Originally by: Mori Felding Edited by: Mori Felding on 27/05/2007 10:21:57 Quote: As I have said twice already, all Midular has to do is hold the talks in the Mandate in future. Then decent Matari will be safe from being caught in the crossfire. A very good idea actually, if the conditions are any safer there anyhow. Not like having Ammatar civilians die is much better. Well I would differ on that. If Midular and some Nefanter are the only ones in harms way I am a happy man. Sadly as you can see in other news I must cut my part in this debate short. Myself and my men are needed on the frontlines. >> RECRUITING <<
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Rho Dynamics Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:47:00 - [75] Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 27/05/2007 12:54:23 Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 27/05/2007 12:50:18 Originally by: Telemicus Thrace words I see you've also picked up the "completely dodge the point and brag about own exploits" card from the CVA as well. You still fail to give a valid reason as to why the Republic shouldn't persue peace talks with the Mandate; other than saying the baseless accusation that these are infact surrender talks. You say that the Republic doesn't adequately defend it's people? Even if it were true do you think that fighting an endless quagmire of a war against an enemy backed by the two largest nations in the cluster might have something to do with that? The Blood Hands are getting support? Why? Because they killed dozens of civilians to get a few unarmed diplomats? Bombing a populace and calling their deaths "collateral damage" is hardly the way to win them over. I might see the justification if those people were being held in slavery, destined for a long painful death anyway, but the civilians that died in that station were free civilians with no part in this conflict. You speak of the Bloody Hands as though they've done anything but murder a couple of Ammatar diplomats(killing plenty of Republic civilians in the process), hell untill recently the only thing they've managed to accomplish was turn a formerly peaceful demonstration into a bloodbath, getting dozens of the people they claim to fight for killed in the process; sounds like a good bunch of guys eh? I hope the UK still recognizes the folly in slaughtering their own kinsman, even if you don't. You want me to tell you what orders you've been barking out? Seems old age is getting to you so I'll repeat what you've been demanding of the nation you've abandoned so long ago. You keep attacking this peace process as though it's your fleets that are being destroyed in the skies above the Mandate, as if it's your families held in captivity in Mandate POW camps, as if it's your families dying in countless skirmishes every day that in the end acomplish nothing. So go right ahead, brag about your exploits some more, talk about how you used to be in a position to demand anything of the Republic, call me boy a few dozen more times, but for the love of all that's holy address the damn points already! KhanJohn, despite your flawed anysis of EM being an Amarr paramilitary (I don't remember taking orders from the Empire......ever) I'd like to thank you for actually addressing my points rather than braging as your colegue has. The Republic aren't in this deal to ally, capitulate, reassimilate, or do anything else with the Nefretar traitors other than sign a simple peace treaty. I imagine fleet strength along their borders would be comperable to that on the Amarrian border. By no means would the Republic recall it's fleets and go on a crash binge or something were a peace treaty to be signed; it'd still keep vigil over the gates, it would continue to advance it's technology at a rate exponentially faster than that of the Empire, and it would continue to sa***aurd the billions of it's citizens; only now without a quagmire to sap it's strength. And should the Amarr come knocking again the fleet will be prepared to push them back; and with the galaxy wide war that would enevitably bring the Ammatar's patrons would be too busy defending their own turf to assist; thus leaving us in a far better position to finish this than we are now.....indeed the only ones with any intrest in the peace talks failing are the Imperials. ----------------------------- Naturally my views are my own as I'm not my alliance's spokesman, ect.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:31:00 - [76] Originally by: KhanJohn The Irony is that i can see all of the Electus Matari's good will and their talks on how its a different generation being forced into this war but the Ammatar still follow the Amarran way and have orders barked to them by the Amarran empire... Peace talks are all well and good but my people will never recognise your republic we merely recognise that there are a group of disruptive slaves occupying our sovreign territory... make friends with the Ammatar and pull your fleet away from their borders but when the Amarran empire settles down and eventually comes back round to the thinking that it can change peoples mind through force again which will eventually happen whether 50 years, 100 years or 1000 as long as the Ammatar are their friends and you have no forces guarding those borders dont come crying about what happened to the valiant defenders the Ushrakhan as the Amarran march into your territory slaughtering you wholesale... they see you as slaves....live with it or fight it....that is my people...they subvert, they convert or they kill...deal with it. But a window of peace with the Ammatar, however brief, will give us a chance to build, to prepare. With a new Heir assuming the Throne soon, there is a distinct possibility we'll see the Amarr move towards an active war footing. When that day comes, we'll need every ship, every soldier, every ounce of trit and every single bullet we can lay our hands on. Yes, I too am inclined to think that when that day comes, the Ammatar will roll over and show their bellies to the slaver hound once again. But every single day we can maintain peace with the Ammatar is a day we can build more ships, instead of losing them. Every single soldier who comes home through the POW exchange, is a man not vanishing into the slave plantations of the Empire when they pick up the whip again. Every hour we have to prepare, is another Matari capsuleer entering training, or another refining his skills. We have to make the best of the time we have before the Amarr come. No one in the Republic will ever trust the Ammatar again. But we have to win what we can when the opportunity presents itself. I would sacrifice anything for my people. That includes revenge. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:14:00 - [77] Originally by: Agustus Caesar Originally by: Telemicus Thrace words I see you've also picked up the "completely dodge the point and brag about own exploits" card from the CVA as well. You still fail to give a valid reason as to why the Republic shouldn't persue peace talks with the Mandate. Look kid, you asked me who I am to speak about such things. I told you. Why should the Republic in my opinion not pursue peace talks with the Amarr? because they are the enemy and they talk peace only so they can betray the Matari people again. Surrender talks? you threw that one in there boy, not me. Originally by: Agustus Caesar You want me to tell you what orders you've been barking out? Seems old age is getting to you so I'll repeat what you've been demanding of the nation you've abandoned so long ago. Go on then... Originally by: Agustus Caesar You keep attacking this peace process as though it's your fleets that are being destroyed in the skies above the Mandate, as if it's your families held in captivity in Mandate POW camps, as if it's your families dying in countless skirmishes every day that in the end acomplish nothing. So go right ahead, brag about your exploits some more, talk about how you used to be in a position to demand anything of the Republic, call me boy a few dozen more times, but for the love of all that's holy address the damn points already! No, sorry. I don't see any orders I have barked in there. Perhaps you should speak to some of my squad, they well know it when I bark an order. You just seem to be complaining that I have achieved more battle honours than you. My fleets do sometimes get destroyed fighting in the Mandate. Sometimes we destroy the enemy fleet which of course is my preference. My people are being held in chains, to free them is why I fight the slavers at every turn. I fight them in the Mandate, in the Empire, The Bleak Lands and in Providence. Every single day. You? You whine that I do not address the points, I don't see you making one. Please, take a deep breath and try again. I will attempt to answer any valid points you can make as my schedule permits. Meanwhile I have a war to fight. >> RECRUITING <<
KhanJohn Amarr Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:31:00 - [78] Quote: As long as they're tied up with the Amarr, why would the republic move its ships from there? ill requote you what evanda said :) Quote: They get to keep our armed forces split between defending our internal space from raids and defending our borders with the Mandate. that entails we lower the amount of forces engaged on the border of Ammatar space....any lower force means a higher risk of attack. Quote: KhanJohn, despite your flawed anysis of EM being an Amarr paramilitary (I don't remember taking orders from the Empire......ever) I'd like to thank you for actually addressing my points rather than braging as your colegue has. The Republic aren't in this deal to ally, capitulate, reassimilate, or do anything else with the Nefretar traitors other than sign a simple peace treaty. I imagine fleet strength along their borders would be comperable to that on the Amarrian border. By no means would the Republic recall it's fleets and go on a crash binge or something were a peace treaty to be signed; it'd still keep vigil over the gates, it would continue to advance it's technology at a rate exponentially faster than that of the Empire, and it would continue to sa***aurd the billions of it's citizens; only now without a quagmire to sap it's strength. And should the Amarr come knocking again the fleet will be prepared to push them back; and with the galaxy wide war that would enevitably bring the Ammatar's patrons would be too busy defending their own turf to assist; thus leaving us in a far better position to finish this than we are now.....indeed the only ones with any intrest in the peace talks failing are the Imperials. when did i say EM was an amarran paramilitary i said with all your goodwill in this situation in regards to pow prisoner exchanges and moving forces to close the borders down if the war ends... my concern is the movement of republic forces away from the mandate borders...and on the subject of prisoner exchanges i seriously doubt that the Ammatars will give up all their enslaved prisoners if they follow the same line as the Amarrans...Midulars negotitaters will not bargain for this they just want peace but in the belief they can comftably sit and nothing will go wrong.... People ask me what i am if i am not Amarran - i am a free "Amarri" all exiled amarrans who do not believe the tainted prophets are!
Hiro Yuki Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:56:00 - [79] Thrace, I'm all for every last Ammatar, that still follows Amarrian ways, being hunted down and killed. Just not right now. These peace talks give us at least the opportunity to get back some slaves that are suffering out there, without any need for risk. The Ammatar aren't coming 'back into the fold'. There's no way in hell that most of Matari civilisation would accept them. If Midular offered that, she'd be laughed out of office rather than forced. But getting slaves back is a good thing. Surely you can see that? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions as to what Midular is going to be offering. Why don't we simply wait and see? Then we can decide what to do about it. Hiro Yuki
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:08:00 - [80] I'm ever so sorry people, I wandered in the wrong room of this summit and started my speech there, I must be getting old. ... I will repeat what I said in this proper discussion: Quote: Good honorable members of this summit, The Sebiestor Tribe is shocked by the bombings at the Republic Parliament Bureau station in Egbonbet. As too many details are not yet released to me to inform you more precise, we regret the loss of many of our own good men and women by the terrorist attack. We can however report that thanks to a quick response by members of Delictum 23216 who assisted the Republican Parliament Guards in preventing more hurt and damage to many in the station, casualties have been minimized. It was too late also for a Mandate consulate member, our thoughts go out to his family and friends. The Sebiestor Tribe will do everything in its power to assist Republic officials to track down the criminals and bring them to justice. By tribal custom, our Elders have advised the Republic that the Mandate can have first rights to judge the criminals in this matter. For further information we have to wait for Republican officials to comment further on this subject. RB join us today!
Mori Felding Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:19:00 - [81] KhanJohn, ofcourse the Mandate fleet would have to 'step down' as well. It's not like intelligence will not be around to track movement of fleets, at least that would highly naive not to have. In case of a massing fleet, the republic could bring back the ships. There's no reason they should hang there due to a 'just in case' scenario, that'd be a waste of resources. ___ Memento Mori
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:26:00 - [82] Edited by: Redbad on 27/05/2007 16:27:05 Originally by: Hiro Yuki Thrace, I'm all for every last Ammatar, that still follows Amarrian ways, being hunted down and killed. Just not right now. These peace talks give us at least the opportunity to get back some slaves that are suffering out there, without any need for risk. The Ammatar aren't coming 'back into the fold'. There's no way in hell that most of Matari civilisation would accept them. If Midular offered that, she'd be laughed out of office rather than forced. But getting slaves back is a good thing. Surely you can see that? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions as to what Midular is going to be offering. Why don't we simply wait and see? Then we can decide what to do about it. Hiro Yuki Your words are harsh Hiro Yuki, considering the fact that human loss also on the Mandate's side in this incident is to be considered. Karin Midular, although in difference with the Ushra'Khan, will do her utmost to have an outcome that is beneficial to all of the people the Republic, and to her people that cannot live in the freedom of her borders. Perhaps we should all consider that the path chosen by Karin Midular is different, but keep in mind that the Sebiestor will always fight for what is right; The freedom of our people and the wellbeing of the Republic. I encourage young Sebiestor to keep firing up the fight for what the Republic stands for, that they fight alongside the Ushra'Khan to free our people from the Ammarian Slavers, to spill Sebiestor blood as it was Ushra'Khan's blood. Sebiestor actions of our pilots should speak for them, not words that can be misinterpreted. The Sebiestor Elders, for whom I speak, have not yet lost their faith in the path chosen and in Karin Midular to guide the Republic down this difficult path. RB join us today!
Nebulous Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:29:00 - [83] Originally by: Redbad I'm ever so sorry people, I wandered in the wrong room of this summit and started my speech there, I must be getting old. ... I will repeat what I said in this proper discussion: Quote: Good honorable members of this summit, The Sebiestor Tribe is shocked by the bombings at the Republic Parliament Bureau station in Egbonbet. As too many details are not yet released to me to inform you more precise, we regret the loss of many of our own good men and women by the terrorist attack. We can however report that thanks to a quick response by members of Delictum 23216 who assisted the Republican Parliament Guards in preventing more hurt and damage to many in the station, casualties have been minimized. It was too late also for a Mandate consulate member, our thoughts go out to his family and friends. The Sebiestor Tribe will do everything in its power to assist Republic officials to track down the criminals and bring them to justice. By tribal custom, our Elders have advised the Republic that the Mandate can have first rights to judge the criminals in this matter. For further information we have to wait for Republican officials to comment further on this subject. RB While I commend your compasion for the civilians lost I feel your overall response somewhat offensive, firstly you do not ever thank delictum 23216 for anything other than them commiting voluntary suicide, they are scumbag slavers and traitors that deserve no thanks from someone like yourself. Secondly Im not sure who put you in the position to speak on behalf of the sebiestor tribe, if you can call it a tribe? I merely see it as a bloodline as I myself am a member of the thukker tribe. Also the mandate should never be allowed to judge any matari, there punishments would be a life of slavery which they inflict even on law abiding citizens.
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:03:00 - [84] Originally by: Nebulous Originally by: Redbad I'm ever so sorry people, I wandered in the wrong room of this summit and started my speech there, I must be getting old. ... I will repeat what I said in this proper discussion: Quote: Good honorable members of this summit, The Sebiestor Tribe is shocked by the bombings at the Republic Parliament Bureau station in Egbonbet. As too many details are not yet released to me to inform you more precise, we regret the loss of many of our own good men and women by the terrorist attack. We can however report that thanks to a quick response by members of Delictum 23216 who assisted the Republican Parliament Guards in preventing more hurt and damage to many in the station, casualties have been minimized. It was too late also for a Mandate consulate member, our thoughts go out to his family and friends. The Sebiestor Tribe will do everything in its power to assist Republic officials to track down the criminals and bring them to justice. By tribal custom, our Elders have advised the Republic that the Mandate can have first rights to judge the criminals in this matter. For further information we have to wait for Republican officials to comment further on this subject. RB While I commend your compasion for the civilians lost I feel your overall response somewhat offensive, firstly you do not ever thank delictum 23216 for anything other than them commiting voluntary suicide, they are scumbag slavers and traitors that deserve no thanks from someone like yourself. Secondly Im not sure who put you in the position to speak on behalf of the sebiestor tribe, if you can call it a tribe? I merely see it as a bloodline as I myself am a member of the thukker tribe. Also the mandate should never be allowed to judge any matari, there punishments would be a life of slavery which they inflict even on law abiding citizens. Our opinions differ, our blood remains the same. I voice the words of our Elders who have merely an advising role. I do not spread the words of Karin Midular, you have to got to Atbi Enonotur for that. It's not wise to heed volatile words in times like this. If only we could be more patient before we speak words of war. Because if it comes to that, rest assured we will listen to our boiling blood, not to opinions. RB join us today!
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:14:00 - [85] Tell me, how is Karin Midular going to sell out the Republic? Even if she plans to merge the Republic with the Mandate, do you think for one minute that the Republic would listen to her? These peace talks are intended to end a destructive war that has taken many lives on both sides, as well as free thousands of Minmatar held captive by the Ammatars. You have implied that you support the deaths of all the Ammatars. Let me create a scenario for you: The Ammatars agree to resume talks, only this time within Ammatar space, since they do not trust the RSS. The talks are held on an Ammatar station, with a civilian population in the tens of thousands. The Bloody Hands of Matar raise enough money to purchase a fusion round off the open market. They smuggle it onto the station and detonate it. The station is reduced to debris. Both the Minmatar and Ammatar delegations are killed, along with tens of thousands of Ammatar civilians. Would you support this massacre? Are all the Ammatars traitors? Or are they 'acceptable collateral damage'? ____________________________________ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom
Tahj Minmatar Strix Armaments and Defence The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:02:00 - [86] 'acceptable collateral damage'
Alywn Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:15:00 - [87] Originally by: Tahj 'acceptable collateral damage' Indeed, lets get the Thukker traitors as well whilst we're at it
Hiro Yuki Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:22:00 - [88] Quote: Your words are harsh Hiro Yuki, considering the fact that human loss also on the Mandate's side in this incident is to be considered. Not really, as far as I'm concerned. I'm all for killing all the Ammatar. I'm a Verokhior. I know who my ancestors were, unlike many other Minmatar. I know who lead them to the Amarrians in chains. Besides, I'm all for killing slavers. That's Ammatar as well. Any Ammatar who are against the Ammarian way are fine by me. Hiro Yuki
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:37:00 - [89] Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 29/05/2007 19:35:35 Originally by: Kabajashi San How can you say "I fight for the freedom of my brothers" when you do business with the ones enslaving them? You cannot force the Ammatar to do your will by waging unrestricted war. The surest way to achieve any goals is to enter respectful dialogue. Quote: And if you would really consider the protection of innocent lives your goal then there should be no hesitating in blowing up any Ammatar representative. Because more than the civilians surrounding him the slaves on his farm are innocent. Easy for you to say, demagogue. If you take a moment to think about your statement, you will see it is your views supporting killing those you consider innocent and worsening the conditions of those you wish to protect. You have no vision, or insight for that matter. Originally by: Kabajashi San ...at a government ignoring the rightful will of its people and their demand for clarification and information? Sometimes you have to think beyond the mob and realise that the role of a government is to act in the best interests of its people. The methods of achieving this is not always congruent with what people 'want'. Accept your place in the world order and achieve progress, or forever argue with the decisions of your betters and stagnate any possibility of change. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Hazor Dris Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:25:00 - [90] Apologies for the late reply; there have been strings of comms outages in our starbases as of late, and we are only now able to get through. After hearing of the recent bombings, NMTZ would like to officially extend a hand of aid to the surviving citizens and diplomats caught in the blast. To the families of the departed we offer our sorrows at their loss. NMTZ has always strived for the freedom of our fellow blood brethren held enslaved by the Amarr; this will never change. As the Ammatar hold the disciplines and teachings of the Amarr to heart, we generally have taken a hard stance against them. Nonetheless, terrorist actions during peace talks are completely uncalled for. We are outraged that the targets of these terrorists were non-combatants, of their own race and empire no less; killing the defenseless is weak and cowardly, and is an action reserved only for the lowest of scum. Once again, we are truely sorry that this horrible incident has happened. If the perpertrators are seen anywhere in Molden Heath, they will be hunted down and brought to justice. -Hazor Dris NMTZ Spokesperson
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:35:00 - [91] Originally by: Hazor Dris Apologies for the late reply; there have been strings of comms outages in our starbases as of late, and we are only now able to get through. After hearing of the recent bombings, NMTZ would like to officially extend a hand of aid to the surviving citizens and diplomats caught in the blast. To the families of the departed we offer our sorrows at their loss. NMTZ has always strived for the freedom of our fellow blood brethren held enslaved by the Amarr; this will never change. As the Ammatar hold the disciplines and teachings of the Amarr to heart, we generally have taken a hard stance against them. Nonetheless, terrorist actions during peace talks are completely uncalled for. We are outraged that the targets of these terrorists were non-combatants, of their own race and empire no less; killing the defenseless is weak and cowardly, and is an action reserved only for the lowest of scum. Once again, we are truely sorry that this horrible incident has happened. If the perpertrators are seen anywhere in Molden Heath, they will be hunted down and brought to justice. -Hazor Dris NMTZ Spokesperson These are words of honour and common decency. I quote them for posterity. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:51:00 - [92] Originally by: Tahj 'acceptable collateral damage' Ugh. So killing off a few dozen Ammatar leaders is worth killing thousands of Ammatar civilians? I did not realize how much more valuable the lives of the Ammatar leaders are than the lives of their subjects. ____________________________________ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom
Tahj Minmatar Strix Armaments and Defence The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.31 11:58:00 - [93] You posed a question and i answered it as i see it.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.31 12:28:00 - [94] Matari people come first. Our interests are the well-being of our people, and any means of securing those interests are justified. Neither the Amarr nor the Ammatar have the best interests of the Matari people at heart, they don't care about us, they just want to enslave us and harness our energy and spirit for their empire. The lives of 1,000,000 Amarrians are not worth a single Matari life. If they believe they can harm us, enslave us, wage war on us, and spill our blood without having their own blood spilt, they are gravely mistaken. If this means eternal war, then eternal war it must be. It is a war YOU brought on, Amarrians. We didn't come to you, you came to us. You've learned nothing from the Rebellion, We are not the Ni-Kunni, if you think you can subjugate us, then you have many more humiliating lessons to learn.
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.05.31 12:46:00 - [95] Originally by: Cipher7 Matari people come first. Our interests are the well-being of our people, and any means of securing those interests are justified. Neither the Amarr nor the Ammatar have the best interests of the Matari people at heart, they don't care about us, they just want to enslave us and harness our energy and spirit for their empire. The lives of 1,000,000 Amarrians are not worth a single Matari life. If they believe they can harm us, enslave us, wage war on us, and spill our blood without having their own blood spilt, they are gravely mistaken. If this means eternal war, then eternal war it must be. It is a war YOU brought on, Amarrians. We didn't come to you, you came to us. You've learned nothing from the Rebellion, We are not the Ni-Kunni, if you think you can subjugate us, then you have many more humiliating lessons to learn. With this drivel in mind, what is your opinion on the attacks? Delictum 23216 Official forums
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.31 14:32:00 - [96] Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo With this drivel in mind, what is your opinion on the attacks? Next time use more precise munitions to injure fewer bystanders and more Ammatar. Ya know Scagga, I can't understand your type. I was over on the Amarr comms the other day listening to these people talk, it was sickening. They think we....you...our kind...are subhumans. Have you no self-respect? Even a dog barks when it gets spat on. I realize the Gallente have ulterior motives too, I can admit that. All the other Empires are trying to get us under their thumb, trying to get us to be their grunts and laborers and footsoldiers. But at least the Gallente bring flowers and candy before trying to mount us, ya know what I mean? At the end of the day, none of us are very different. Matari want what everybody else want. Decent living conditions. And being enslaved isn't a decent living condition. When the Imps understand that, they might have a chance of wooing us to their side, because let's face it, the Feds are a bunch of cheese-eating cowards. If the Imps had come correct, nobody would have had a reason to rebel and we would have become part of the Empire. But no, they took the low road to cruelty, and now look at them, all busted up claiming to still be an "Empire" while everybody else struggles to keep a straight face.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.31 15:56:00 - [97] Well, the Amarr -do- still have the largest empire, and largest fleet, in the cluster. I just felt I ought to mention it for the sake of accuracy. We Caldari have the smallest. On the subject of bombing peace talks, well, I've remarked in these pages before on people who make their own cause difficult to support. The cause may be pure, but if the acts are depraved, the cause is dirtied thereby. Bombing peace talks comes off pretty depraved, frankly.
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2007.05.31 16:22:00 - [98] Ciper7, Lord Scaga is genuinly interested, no doubt, but just as we all, he has to wait where the talks lead to. These bombings were a serious threat to perhaps the first steps of stopping the needless clashes between people of our own blood. The shooting incident against Electus Matari pilots is also a good example of teethgrinding tension at the borders due to the ceasefire. We all have to keep our heads cool and let the Republic Officials and the Mandate dipolomats do their work. It is all about trust and respect, that is almost none-existant. That is to be gained with small steps at the time. Some parties, like the Ushra'Khan or some Ammatar organisations, are not ready to make these steps yet, or even perhaps never will be ready. The fight for Freedom by the Ushra'Khan is most just and right, but it is for the good of the Republic and all Matari and Ammatar that we have to try talking to eachtoher and grasp the chance for a better and free New Eden that is not only shaped by the force of guns and wars alone. This is why we should give Karin Midular a chance to keep these talks, ..., The Matari and Ammatar have only to gain by talking to eachother. We will wait what the outcome of the talks are to see what is the way for the Republic to go. If after this first step, and after this terrible bombing and shootingincident, talks still leaves the diplomats with some respect and trust for eachother, we will all have new options to explore on our way to the total freedom of our people. If not, without doubt, all of the tribal elders are ready to give own and their sons lives fighting besides the brave warriors of the Ushra'Khan. RB join us today!
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.31 19:40:00 - [99] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Well, the Amarr -do- still have the largest empire, and largest fleet, in the cluster. I just felt I ought to mention it for the sake of accuracy. Yeah well, they seem to be having trouble securing Amarr Prime, so I'm not sure exactly how Imperial the Imps are right now. Seems like they've bit down on a rusty metal plate, they bent the plate but now they need a dentist. Make no mistake, the Imps need these peace talks more than we do, these twerps are trying to take the pressure off to deal with internal problems and put their own house in order. Eternal war suits the Matari people just fine, it brings us back to our warrior roots. The Imps think we're subhumans. Well I think the Imps are subhumans, they should watch it lest they end up in chains themselves. But that's an empty threat, we would never treat them like they treated us, even if it was in our power, we would forgive and try to reconcile, because we're not soul-less 2-legged*****roaches in robes.

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