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Panzer Debi	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:08:00 - [1] Just watched this video of capital ships bumping ships outside of a pos with the shield field up? \ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgY3q6XJ9zQ
Ralara Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:17:00 - [2] Yes, it's called "pos bowling". It is technically an exploit but it's not actually "logged" so it can never be proven beyond a FRAPS (which can technically be edited) and thus it is incredibly unlikely that action will be taken against offenders.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:18:00 - [3] Jup... nick named POS Bowling. It's been around since POS's and allowed by GMs (losses caused by this are not reimbursable). ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. My Top 10 List
Lord Matrix PBA Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:26:00 - [4] Things like this are the reason why there is no fair play and sport in EVE anymore. It's cheating and because GMs allow it, also changes the community's point of view on how things are served in EVE. This then results in even more lame "tactics".
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:36:00 - [5] Originally by: Ralara It is technically an exploit If it was technically an exploit people would get banned for it. It has not been called an exploit by the GM's or Devs therefor it is a valid tactic no matter how lame :(. Recruiting Terrorists
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:40:00 - [6] Egh! it really is like bowling, now that i've actuley seen it all i can say is... lame. -
Ralara Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.29 22:08:00 - [7] Originally by: Ryas Nia Originally by: Ralara It is technically an exploit If it was technically an exploit people would get banned for it. It has not been called an exploit by the GM's or Devs therefor it is a valid tactic no matter how lame :(. Well let's get technical. I wont insult your intelligence with a quote from the EULA or T&C. You know what an exploit is defined as. Warping a ship into a pos shield is not an intended mechanic just as "jet can" mining is not (was not) intended. But people do it. The problem with pos bowling and the way eve appears to log things is .. well, it isn't. Logged, that is. Just as if I decide to click left and then right in space, that isn't logged. It's logged when I click "warp to" or "fire", but not when I maneuver around. There is no log that says "X bumped into Y" therefore CCP logs do not show someone bumping something inside a POS shield. Since it's not logged it is so incredibly difficult to prove it happened without a GM being there, at the time of it happening. You can FRAPs it, but as I said in my post, a movie CAN be edited and so therefore FRAPS are generally not admissable as evidence in a petition. So no logs on the CCP side, no "evidence" that is admissable, therefore it "didn't happen" and since CCP can't / wont change the coding, nothing can be done about it. It is then relegated to "feature" and everyone rolls eyes except those with super caps that can get away with it. The fix? Make pos shields into a warp field just like a mobile warp bubble. That way ships wont "enter" the pos shield. Voila.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.05.29 22:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Ralara The fix? Make pos shields into a warp field just like a mobile warp bubble. That way ships wont "enter" the pos shield. Voila. Sensible fix, albleit a time consuming one (everyone will need to maneuver out of the POS shields first before they can enter warp plus no more escaping from a pos under siege, no more ninja hauling those precious goodies out. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. My Top 10 List
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:01:00 - [9] STTRRRIKE!
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:01:00 - [10] I feel there's a simple solution to this: fix Ship Maintenance Arrays. They are awkward to use because only one person can be within 3km of it at a time. I can't see any reason this should be so. If they fixed this fatal flaw in ship maintenance arrays, people would have no reason to leave ships floating in space. And those that did, would deserve to have them pos bowled. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Beer is my religion. Guinness is my God.
Angus McDorble Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:02:00 - [11] Last I heard, they declared it an exploit but never do anything about it when (no, not IF) it happens. ------------------------------- Sorry I stunk up the factory.
FuQue	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:10:00 - [12] I don't understand the point of having ships outside a ship array anyways. If you don't like the bumping, just store your ships properly you won't lose anything.
Angus McDorble Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:16:00 - [13] Originally by: FuQue I don't understand the point of having ships outside a ship array anyways. If you don't like the bumping, just store your ships properly you won't lose anything. What if you're currently sitting in it? What if the ship array is full? What if its access is limited? What if you're hugging a POS because there's a 200-man fleet in the system with two titans? AND you're outnumbered 4 to 1 with all the exit gates bubbled? I spend most of my time in 0.0 space these days and there are COUNTLESS situations where POS bowling becomes a serious consideration. ------------------------------- Sorry I stunk up the factory.
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Ralara Yes, it's called "pos bowling". It is technically an exploit but it's not actually "logged" so it can never be proven beyond a FRAPS (which can technically be edited) and thus it is incredibly unlikely that action will be taken against offenders. CCP has stated it's not an exploit in response to petitions. ----
Mamba Lev Caldari The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:42:00 - [15] Didn't BoB pioneer POS bowling? CCP says it can't do anything about. Hmmm.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Ralara Originally by: Ryas Nia Originally by: Ralara It is technically an exploit If it was technically an exploit people would get banned for it. It has not been called an exploit by the GM's or Devs therefor it is a valid tactic no matter how lame :(. Well let's get technical. I wont insult your intelligence with a quote from the EULA or T&C. You know what an exploit is defined as. Warping a ship into a pos shield is not an intended mechanic just as "jet can" mining is not (was not) intended. But people do it. The problem with pos bowling and the way eve appears to log things is .. well, it isn't. Logged, that is. Just as if I decide to click left and then right in space, that isn't logged. It's logged when I click "warp to" or "fire", but not when I maneuver around. There is no log that says "X bumped into Y" therefore CCP logs do not show someone bumping something inside a POS shield. Since it's not logged it is so incredibly difficult to prove it happened without a GM being there, at the time of it happening. You can FRAPs it, but as I said in my post, a movie CAN be edited and so therefore FRAPS are generally not admissable as evidence in a petition. So no logs on the CCP side, no "evidence" that is admissable, therefore it "didn't happen" and since CCP can't / wont change the coding, nothing can be done about it. It is then relegated to "feature" and everyone rolls eyes except those with super caps that can get away with it. The fix? Make pos shields into a warp field just like a mobile warp bubble. That way ships wont "enter" the pos shield. Voila. It has been stated several times from the powers that be that it is not an exploit. there was some drama at first and we were asked to stop, then we heard of ET using it so a petition was sent in for clarification and it was green lighted. It may not be cool, it may suck but it isn't an exploit. simple as that BoB vs the coalition of family values
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:48:00 - [17] Originally by: Mamba Lev Didn't BoB pioneer POS bowling? CCP says it can't do anything about. Hmmm. the first i had ever heard of its use was an iac mothership, and i think i also heard the establishments nyx had done it before although that was from the grapevine so can't clarify that, maybe they can BoB vs the coalition of family values
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:50:00 - [18] Originally by: Ryas Nia Originally by: Ralara It is technically an exploit If it was technically an exploit people would get banned for it. It has not been called an exploit by the GM's or Devs therefor it is a valid tactic no matter how lame :(. It has been both called a exploit and denied as an exploit by GM (first called an exploit, later called a non exploit) from my knowledge.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:00:00 - [19] Edited by: Plutoinum on 29/05/2007 23:59:48 Originally by: ReaperOfSly I feel there's a simple solution to this: fix Ship Maintenance Arrays. They are awkward to use because only one person can be within 3km of it at a time. I can't see any reason this should be so. Agree. Ever had a mate at your ship maintenance array afk, who then had also an approach on that thing ? I tried to bump my mates Raven away to be able to refit, but he always approached that thing again. He was afk for one and a half hour or so and I was really getting a bit annoyed by it. Ok, now I can laugh, but that day I could resist to write a little aggressive corp mail not to go afk at the ship maintenance array and especially not with an 'approach' on that thing.
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Mamba Lev Didn't BoB pioneer POS bowling? CCP says it can't do anything about. Hmmm. This is correct. Makes you wonder, huh? ----
Dulsung	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:40:00 - [21] Originally by: squidgee Originally by: Mamba Lev Didn't BoB pioneer POS bowling? CCP says it can't do anything about. Hmmm. This is correct. Makes you wonder, huh? Yeah, it makes me wonder why people leave their ships in space when if they wanted them secure they simply have to park them in a ship maintenance array. Tada, 100% safe. It's got nothing at all to do with BoB, stop trolling.
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:43:00 - [22] Edited by: squidgee on 30/05/2007 00:42:31 Originally by: Dulsung Originally by: squidgee Originally by: Mamba Lev Didn't BoB pioneer POS bowling? CCP says it can't do anything about. Hmmm. This is correct. Makes you wonder, huh? Yeah, it makes me wonder why people leave their ships in space when if they wanted them secure they simply have to park them in a ship maintenance array. Tada, 100% safe. It's got nothing at all to do with BoB, stop trolling. People sitting in their ships waiting for an op to start should really just put their ships into the maintenance array gosh darn trolls. ----
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:46:00 - [23] Edited by: Popsikle on 30/05/2007 00:46:45 Originally by: squidgee Originally by: Mamba Lev Didn't BoB pioneer POS bowling? CCP says it can't do anything about. Hmmm. This is correct. Makes you wonder, huh? Makes me wonder how you know that BoB started it... There are plenty of alliances with super-Caps now a days, not to pod bumping ships out of the bubble is as old as POS's are...... Ya know, the forums wouldn't be nearly so bad if players didn't base their entire ego on internet spaceships, and they didnt take it so personally they are loosing a war about those internet spaceships. __________________________________________
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:52:00 - [24] Originally by: Popsikle Edited by: Popsikle on 30/05/2007 00:46:45 Ya know, the forums wouldn't be nearly so bad if players didn't base their entire ego on internet spaceships, and they didnt take it so personally they are loosing a war about those internet spaceships. For realz, yo. Those POS bowlers really need to take a step back. Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo
zoltar	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:54:00 - [25] Originally by: Dulsung Originally by: squidgee Originally by: Mamba Lev Didn't BoB pioneer POS bowling? CCP says it can't do anything about. Hmmm. This is correct. Makes you wonder, huh? Yeah, it makes me wonder why people leave their ships in space when if they wanted them secure they simply have to park them in a ship maintenance array. Tada, 100% safe. It's got nothing at all to do with BoB, stop trolling. Hmm, a BoB alt Obviously. i would love to see you try to get a op going and tell everyone to put there ship in the maintenance array while they wait for it to start. Then you will have 100 pods floating waiting to be bowled. Not to mention when you want to kick off the op. OK new everyone get into there ships, and remember one at a time and stay 3k away from it.
Shadowfax2121 Gallente Black Lance NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:07:00 - [26] First heard about POS bowling Here. Looks kind of funny, actually. VOOMP- four titans in a POS go zip in four directions.
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:10:00 - [27] Originally by: Blind Man STTRRRIKE! I freaking love your image Blind Man!! I haven't seen it enough lately. Go post to a ton of threads please. ;) - Helo
Cyan Nuevo The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.30 02:24:00 - [28] Interesting how the vast majority whining about BoB-dev corruption and BoB exploits are currently fighting a war against BoB. Makes you wonder, huh? (Note: I don't think this is trolling any more than the posts I am mocking. If it's worse, I apologize in advance, mods.)
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.30 02:35:00 - [29] If you're inside a POS bubble and you know the enemy is trying to bump you out of it (and eventually will) - why do you stay inside the bubble and not just disperse or like...regroup somewhere else? Maybe even log off since you can't win the fight by getting more help or finding a strategy that works... --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Angus McDorble Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 02:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Lisento Slaven If you're inside a POS bubble and you know the enemy is trying to bump you out of it (and eventually will) - why do you stay inside the bubble and not just disperse or like...regroup somewhere else? Maybe even log off since you can't win the fight by getting more help or finding a strategy that works... Because, chances are, the systems is camped like a park three miles outside of Suburbia. If there's a Titan around to be USED to POS bowl, there IS no strategy that works. Titans are effectively an "I win" button if the person flying it isn't an incompetent monkey. ------------------------------- Sorry I stunk up the factory.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.30 02:50:00 - [31] Originally by: Angus McDorble Originally by: Lisento Slaven If you're inside a POS bubble and you know the enemy is trying to bump you out of it (and eventually will) - why do you stay inside the bubble and not just disperse or like...regroup somewhere else? Maybe even log off since you can't win the fight by getting more help or finding a strategy that works... Because, chances are, the systems is camped like a park three miles outside of Suburbia. If there's a Titan around to be USED to POS bowl, there IS no strategy that works. Titans are effectively an "I win" button if the person flying it isn't an incompetent monkey. Lets not turn this into a titan "I Win button". Ive seen to many jump in, DD, jump out in 18 seconds from Janus ;( __________________________________________
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.30 02:56:00 - [32] This is more important than the stuff about CCP "cheating" This is horrible and forget logs I'm 100% sure a dev knows about this. the devs play in EvE remember? which means by all means a dev has pulled this off before. not cool if it can recreated easily then it's broken
Nicoli Voldkif Caelli-Merced INC. Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2007.05.30 03:37:00 - [33] From what I was told from friends on the Test server POS shields now act like Warp disruption bubbles and pull you out of warp at the edge of the bubble. so if you keep to the center you should be safe.
Alty MacAlterson Alt Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.30 04:03:00 - [34] It is a pos bump, a stupid exploit used by titans.
Ralara Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:18:00 - [35] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Ralara Originally by: Ryas Nia Originally by: Ralara It is technically an exploit If it was technically an exploit people would get banned for it. It has not been called an exploit by the GM's or Devs therefor it is a valid tactic no matter how lame :(. Well let's get technical. I wont insult your intelligence with a quote from the EULA or T&C. You know what an exploit is defined as. Warping a ship into a pos shield is not an intended mechanic just as "jet can" mining is not (was not) intended. But people do it. The problem with pos bowling and the way eve appears to log things is .. well, it isn't. Logged, that is. Just as if I decide to click left and then right in space, that isn't logged. It's logged when I click "warp to" or "fire", but not when I maneuver around. There is no log that says "X bumped into Y" therefore CCP logs do not show someone bumping something inside a POS shield. Since it's not logged it is so incredibly difficult to prove it happened without a GM being there, at the time of it happening. You can FRAPs it, but as I said in my post, a movie CAN be edited and so therefore FRAPS are generally not admissable as evidence in a petition. So no logs on the CCP side, no "evidence" that is admissable, therefore it "didn't happen" and since CCP can't / wont change the coding, nothing can be done about it. It is then relegated to "feature" and everyone rolls eyes except those with super caps that can get away with it. The fix? Make pos shields into a warp field just like a mobile warp bubble. That way ships wont "enter" the pos shield. Voila. It has been stated several times from the powers that be that it is not an exploit. there was some drama at first and we were asked to stop, then we heard of ET using it so a petition was sent in for clarification and it was green lighted. It may not be cool, it may suck but it isn't an exploit. simple as that As I said, it's been relegated to "feature" :)
Charles Case Caldari Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:22:00 - [36] Originally by: Blind Man STTRRRIKE! SHRRRIKE!
FatKao GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:25:00 - [37] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Mamba Lev Didn't BoB pioneer POS bowling? CCP says it can't do anything about. Hmmm. the first i had ever heard of its use was an iac mothership, and i think i also heard the establishments nyx had done it before although that was from the grapevine so can't clarify that, maybe they can We were doing it back when we attacked D2 and were told to stop it at the risk of a ban.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:29:00 - [38] lol, goon lies strike again BoB learned about POS bowling when one of our enemies stole a BoB carrier. Petition said it was not an exploit. But the witch hunters need not worry, I'm sure they'll find something for more scandles soon enough (Better luck next time) Quote: Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:32:00 - [39] Originally by: Cyan Nuevo Interesting how the vast majority whining about BoB-dev corruption and BoB exploits are currently fighting a war against BoB. Makes you wonder, huh? Yeah, shows how weak characters those fighting alongside BoB are, if they had any decency, they would condemn exploits too.
prsr Gallente JuBa Corp Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:01:00 - [40] Judging from the video it's quite easy to avoid getting bumped. But I suppose that doesn't do much to heighten the drama. -- .sig apathy ftw
Diggles Darkreign Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:13:00 - [41] its called poor programing...at best. they're too lazy to fix the code so a ship cant penerate shields. would be a little more realistic if titan hit a large towers shield and got vaporized or took massive structural dmg.
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:35:00 - [42] Originally by: Nicoli Voldkif From what I was told from friends on the Test server POS shields now act like Warp disruption bubbles and pull you out of warp at the edge of the bubble. so if you keep to the center you should be safe. Can anyone confirm this? Has it been fixed? --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Imager GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:55:00 - [43] Originally by: Sergeant Spot lol, goon lies strike again ... scandles ... I blame our upbringing.
Ashaz	Posted - 2007.05.30 08:51:00 - [44] Originally by: FuQue I don't understand the point of having ships outside a ship array anyways. If you don't like the bumping, just store your ships properly you won't lose anything. What kind of ship do you fly, that doesn't need ammo or capcharges or anything to be stored in the cargo? Can't dock up a ship with stuff in the belly.
Ashaz	Posted - 2007.05.30 08:56:00 - [45] Originally by: Popsikle Ya know, the forums wouldn't be nearly so bad if players didn't base their entire ego on internet spaceships, and they didnt take it so personally they are loosing a war about those internet spaceships. So, you failed to notice that this is a forum about wars with internet spaceships?
rValdez5987 Amarr Asylum Research and Development Legion of Honor	Posted - 2007.12.08 06:31:00 - [46] POS bowling huh? tbh I dont have a problem with it, although id probably not use it myself... It wouldn't hurt to fix it though I guess. try not to kill each other in here.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Elite	Posted - 2007.12.08 06:37:00 - [47] Edited by: Blane Xero on 08/12/2007 06:37:36 Thanks for the necro! and it IS an exploit now afaik it was announced back a while after the last post in this thread, Its also been fixed as ships warping to the POS cant land closer than 5km from the shields... Welcome to EvE
Mr Broker Amarr Station Gremlings	Posted - 2007.12.08 06:54:00 - [48] why even discuss this with posters who do not belong to major alliances, these posters only use pos for mining

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