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Gharthak Gallente The 5 Amigo's LLC. NxT LeveL	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:20:00 - [1] Several months ago my alliance conducted hits on an enemy pos in MI60 in central pureblind. In the process of doing this the opposition knew they were in deep trouble and ejected all of their ships from the ship maintenance array. So we conducted a 24 hour camp (literally) of the system while it was in reinforced mode to hold down the system.. 6 carriers and 25-30 support ships and we did 3-4 billion isk in damage to the enemy as a result.. it was a hard camp (especially for an alliance far inferior to say bob) but it worked and we took home lots of free ships. Anyways in the process of doing so we had several capitals vector in on the pos into a cluster of ships to bounce them out of the forcefield. We took home a few and then the GM's came in and gave us all an official warning that pos bowling is an exploit and to cease doing it immediatly. We did and the camp continued. Anyways earlier today BOB comes along with their allmighty titan and starts pos bowling in my tower. It wasnt much major in there I think 1 or 2 ravens and 2 or 3 battlecruisers. THey achieved to take home/destroy a number of ships.. GM petition response to me is that its not considered an exploit.. Then an hour or 2 later there's an official news letter that pos bowling is now considered an exploit.. So I'd like to know what policies changed between my own pos siege/pos bowling in the past and now that would make it wrong for my alliance to pos bowl but favors bob's pos bowling efforts when they wish to do so. It would seem GM responses are inconsistant and biased to me.
fugazii Deep Space Productions	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:24:00 - [2] when bob can do it, with no chance of it being done back to them it is legal. when other alliance super caps come into picture(hi goons), its made illegal.
Gharthak Gallente The 5 Amigo's LLC. NxT LeveL	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:26:00 - [3] Originally by: fugazii when bob can do it, with no chance of it being done back to them it is legal. when other alliance super caps come into picture(hi goons), its made illegal. Am I to understand goons were doing some pos bowling of their own? lol
juduzz Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:30:00 - [4] Originally by: fugazii when bob can do it, with no chance of it being done back to them it is legal. when other alliance super caps come into picture(hi goons), its made illegal. Fug its been done by BOB AAA, IAC establishment aprently D" you name it, its not some BOB ****.
Kagurazaka Asuna Caldari Gears of Ore	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:35:00 - [5] Well if it happened today, and [url=http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1470&tid=1&sid=710874278]this[/url] has been up since morning, and you can prove this somehow, then BoB SHOULD be in some trouble here. Keyword: should.
Interval The Triad Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:41:00 - [6] Edited by: Interval on 31/05/2007 03:41:17 Have the GM read the news. http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1470&tid=1 Quote: pos bowling exploit reported by GM Grimmi \| 2007.05.30 16:35:04 \| NEW Greetings, The so-called "POS Bowling" will from here on be considered an exploit. While it is true that this is not verifiable after the fact by way of logs, GMs are able to go ingame and monitor situations at will, and do it without anyone knowing. If we catch anyone doing this we will take the appropriate action against them. We therefore urge Titan and Mothership pilots to refrain from using their ships to bump ships out of POS forcefields, or risk facing punitive measures for exploiting. All the best, GM Grimmi Lead Game Master EVE Online Customer Support
Ammath The 5 Amigo's LLC. NxT LeveL	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:52:00 - [7] One of my corpies who petitioned it was responded to by a GM that unless a GM "witnesses" the POS Bowling they wont do anything... despite the fact we have screen-shots. They say they cant prove it from logs. So petitioning this exploit is obviously pointless. Ammath Director The 5 Amigos LLC
Setkah	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:52:00 - [8] POS Bowling ftl...2 hours before CCP rules "pos-bowling" as an exploit, B.O.B. decides to joyride their two Avatars through MT9-Q... o/ signed...
Deathwing Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.31 04:24:00 - [9] OK so hang on....apparently 2 BoB titans go POS bowling...you petition....GM says not an exploit Then an hour or two later the lead GM makes an announcement stating that they are making it illegal So you expect someone to be punished for something that at the time it was done wasnt illegal Yes....i follow this train of thought perfectly Secondly you want your screen shots to be the evidence given to the GM's regarding such incidents What is to stop someone from photoshopping an image and getting an honest player banned simply because he/she can again....i see where your train of thought is going and to be honest....i want off <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS
fugazii Deep Space Productions	Posted - 2007.05.31 04:36:00 - [10] Originally by: juduzz Originally by: fugazii when bob can do it, with no chance of it being done back to them it is legal. when other alliance super caps come into picture(hi goons), its made illegal. Fug its been done by BOB AAA, IAC establishment aprently D" you name it, its not some BOB ****. true, however bob is not camping in those peoples space 24/7 therefor they wouldnt be doing it to bob as much as it would be by those being sieged. plus d2's supercaps are up north, yet once the alliance that bob is camping 24/7 gets the ability to do it, the rules change the very day. maybe coincidence, but youve got to admit it smells a bit fishy. nonetheless, i still think anyone, no matter what alliance, doing this should have all accounts associated to thier ip banned.
Deathwing Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.31 04:46:00 - [11] Originally by: fugazii Originally by: juduzz Originally by: fugazii when bob can do it, with no chance of it being done back to them it is legal. when other alliance super caps come into picture(hi goons), its made illegal. Fug its been done by BOB AAA, IAC establishment aprently D" you name it, its not some BOB **. true, however bob is not camping in those peoples space 24/7 therefor they wouldnt be doing it to bob as much as it would be by those being sieged. plus d2's supercaps are up north, yet once the alliance that bob is camping 24/7 gets the ability to do it, the rules change the very day. maybe coincidence, but youve got to admit it smells a bit fishy. nonetheless, i still think anyone, no matter what alliance, doing this should have all accounts associated to thier ip banned. Id sit down and think about what exactly you are trying to imply here before you continue to make another attempt at slapping together some letters to form words. BoB as well as many other alliances have had "Super Caps" for a long time now There have been several instances of POS bowling on both sides of the conflict POS bowling done in BoB space is now just as illegal as it is in Goon or D2 or IAC space Your either terribly missinformed Really behind on the current state of events in Eve Or you are suffering from some form of cranial std that limits the number of braincells capabable occupying any given region of your skull <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS**
band0fdevs Gallente Band of Dev's	Posted - 2007.05.31 04:47:00 - [12] guys u know the imbalances that exist u have to play by CCPs rules not anyone elses, the best thing u can do is take it to gaming forums that CCP use to heavily promote their game and let others know the situation ie imbalances in policing, or quit playing, either way it dont affect empire dwellers except for the lag we have to put up with so its limited to the PVP element of the game
Obron Mettlo Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.31 04:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Deathwing Originally by: fugazii Originally by: juduzz Originally by: fugazii when bob can do it, with no chance of it being done back to them it is legal. when other alliance super caps come into picture(hi goons), its made illegal. Fug its been done by BOB AAA, IAC establishment aprently D" you name it, its not some BOB ****. true, however bob is not camping in those peoples space 24/7 therefor they wouldnt be doing it to bob as much as it would be by those being sieged. plus d2's supercaps are up north, yet once the alliance that bob is camping 24/7 gets the ability to do it, the rules change the very day. maybe coincidence, but youve got to admit it smells a bit fishy. nonetheless, i still think anyone, no matter what alliance, doing this should have all accounts associated to thier ip banned. Id sit down and think about what exactly you are trying to imply here before you continue to make another attempt at slapping together some letters to form words. BoB as well as many other alliances have had "Super Caps" for a long time now There have been several instances of POS bowling on both sides of the conflict POS bowling done in BoB space is now just as illegal as it is in Goon or D2 or IAC space Your either terribly missinformed Really behind on the current state of events in Eve Or you are suffering from some form of cranial std that limits the number of braincells capabable occupying any given region of your skull Your side has done it more with any one of your titans than all of the other super-caps in the game combined. Stop acting like it was all the rage among 0.0 alliances, because it clearly wasn't.
Gharthak Gallente The 5 Amigo's LLC. NxT LeveL	Posted - 2007.05.31 04:58:00 - [14] Edited by: Gharthak on 31/05/2007 05:00:10 Originally by: Deathwing OK so hang on....apparently 2 BoB titans go POS bowling...you petition....GM says not an exploit Then an hour or two later the lead GM makes an announcement stating that they are making it illegal So you expect someone to be punished for something that at the time it was done wasnt illegal Yes....i follow this train of thought perfectly Secondly you want your screen shots to be the evidence given to the GM's regarding such incidents What is to stop someone from photoshopping an image and getting an honest player banned simply because he/she can again....i see where your train of thought is going and to be honest....i want off The intention of this post is not about banning any individual player because as I said openly.. I had even done "pos bowling" so I'm just about as much to blame but more or less inconsistant game policies and GM responses that directly contradict past game GM warnings/CCP "policies" enforced to our pilots.. In the sense that they come right up to our pilots and condone us and say its against game regs to do it.. Now its magically not against game regs and then an hour or 2 later there's the official public statement from the lead GM's.. Its just shifty game management.
Arakk Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.31 04:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Deathwing OK so hang on....apparently 2 BoB titans go POS bowling...you petition....GM says not an exploit Then an hour or two later the lead GM makes an announcement stating that they are making it illegal So you expect someone to be punished for something that at the time it was done wasnt illegal Yes....i follow this train of thought perfectly Secondly you want your screen shots to be the evidence given to the GM's regarding such incidents What is to stop someone from photoshopping an image and getting an honest player banned simply because he/she can again....i see where your train of thought is going and to be honest....i want off i think you might have missed his point. his alliance was told not to, which is strange enough that they must be just unlucky enough to have a GM enter local (after the fact? would be ever more interesting if so) but they were told not to BEFORE it was deemed a sploit, according to the OP. then bob allegidly do it (did you?) incredibly close to the "now its an exploit" cut-off. so according to the OP they get told to stop before the cutoff, and you dont. and if bob did this within 2 hours of pos bowling becoming an exploit, it seems screwy given bob's and ccp's reputation. more advance intel to the south? cough mothership cough anyway if this happened exactly as the op says, im not really surprised.. kinda wish ccp wasnt so smart and they fired the bpo dev, wonder what kind of info we'd have now, if any info at all, would be interesting however wouldnt you say? afterall any simpleton could have translated that apology as "my boss said i could keep my job if i read this and keep my mouth shut." aside from that its all spilled milk to the OP, and are you really surprised it happened this way? this whole pos bowling as an exploit is laughable really... cant get "caught" with screenshots or anything of the sort, you have to be incredibly unlucky...or have one of the involved parties that wants you banned to contact a GM WHILE youre doing it so he/she can go see it for themselves.
Nyack GREY COUNCIL Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:10:00 - [16] if caught pow bowling confiscate the ship doing it.. giving out warnings now and then wont do much good.. but if you know u are risking your super cap by trying i dont see many people willing to risk a Titan or mom this way..
Deathwing Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:11:00 - [17] Something must be getting lost in translation, my english must not be that great. I'll try to keep it in small easy to understand, point form notes for you Obron - It doesnt matter who did what how many times. There was miscommunication between GM's several months ago where no one knew what was going on. It was later straightend out as to not be an exploit. Now thru copius ammounts of complaining I assume they have decided to make it an exploit again. It not like it was an exploit on monday....not an exploit on tuesday...and now an exploit again on wednesday. Get with the programe Gharthak - If you had a problem the ruling given to you, your corporation or your alliances actions "several" months ago as you stated, why you would begin to air them now with the subtle undertone of ccp bias towards BoB. Why wouldnt you raise this concern a few months ago when CCP decided to say it wasnt an exploit? Stop trying to keep the flame wagon rolling towards CCP offices. Arakk - I dont know where to begin with you, but if you dont want me to rat you out on MSN to all my dev/gm/isd/forum mod buddies off in the distand reaches of iceland for POS bowling.......then just dont go pos bowling and there wont be a problem? <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:11:00 - [18] Originally by: Obron Mettlo Your side has done it more with any one of your titans than all of the other super-caps in the game combined. Stop acting like it was all the rage among 0.0 alliances, because it clearly wasn't. Who invented POS Bowling? IAC. Who then used it? BoB. Who got PETITIONED for doing it and was told not to do it under threat of bannination? BoB. Who then did it and was allowed to do it even though BoB had been told not to? Evil Thug, of AAA. Well, obviously, after that, BoB figured they could start doing it again. But they didn't start it, nor did they get it declared legal either. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
fugazii Deep Space Productions	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Deathwing Originally by: fugazii Originally by: juduzz Originally by: fugazii when bob can do it, with no chance of it being done back to them it is legal. when other alliance super caps come into picture(hi goons), its made illegal. Fug its been done by BOB AAA, IAC establishment aprently D" you name it, its not some BOB ****. true, however bob is not camping in those peoples space 24/7 therefor they wouldnt be doing it to bob as much as it would be by those being sieged. plus d2's supercaps are up north, yet once the alliance that bob is camping 24/7 gets the ability to do it, the rules change the very day. maybe coincidence, but youve got to admit it smells a bit fishy. nonetheless, i still think anyone, no matter what alliance, doing this should have all accounts associated to thier ip banned. Id sit down and think about what exactly you are trying to imply here before you continue to make another attempt at slapping together some letters to form words. BoB as well as many other alliances have had "Super Caps" for a long time now There have been several instances of POS bowling on both sides of the conflict POS bowling done in BoB space is now just as illegal as it is in Goon or D2 or IAC space Your either terribly missinformed Really behind on the current state of events in Eve Or you are suffering from some form of cranial std that limits the number of braincells capabable occupying any given region of your skull it amuses me that you cannot lead a civil discussion without degrating to flaming and personal attacks. to think i try to lead a civil discussion yet im the one with "cranial std". im not implying that noone else does it, i know other people do it. hell, up until today d2 were doing it to my alliance in the north. what im trying to say, and bear with me on this considering i have cranial std's, that it seems fishy the day that the alliance that your currently sieging gets the capability to do it back it becomes illegal. on a side note tho, i suggest brushing up on your flaming skills...saying it is weak would be a compliment.
Deathwing Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:20:00 - [20] fugazii how can you at the start of your post go on about how you are trying to lead a civil discussion and imply that I am a mean man by bringing in "personal atacks and flames", and then finish your post with a personal attack? Clearly your record player is skipping all over the place and you dont know whats happening. Secondly, dont for one second try to back track by saying you were not implying that BoB were the only ones doing it. If other alliances were doing it you would have brought them up as well. Further more, where is this "it seems fishy the day that the alliance that your currently sieging gets the capability to do it back it becomes illegal" jargen come from? Last I checked the D2 Titan was killed in Fountain or something, which there are plenty of BoB Friendly pos's in and is a hop skip and a jump away from Delve which is loaded with BoB pos's. If your going to try and argue a point with me sir, make sure you are reading the same page of the book as the rest of the class <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Ammath So petitioning this exploit is obviously pointless. Yes, it is, unless the GM shows up and people continue to do it and they catch it in the act. They call this an exploit, but not the logoffski. Neither of which they can prove. They need to fix both game mechanics so they neither are possible and quit blaming players for crappy game design.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:43:00 - [22] Edited by: Marcus Druallis on 31/05/2007 05:43:45 Originally by: Deathwing fugazii how can you at the start of your post go on about how you are trying to lead a civil discussion and imply that I am a mean man by bringing in "personal atacks and flames", and then finish your post with a personal attack? Clearly your record player is skipping all over the place and you dont know whats happening. Secondly, dont for one second try to back track by saying you were not implying that BoB were the only ones doing it. If other alliances were doing it you would have brought them up as well. Further more, where is this "it seems fishy the day that the alliance that your currently sieging gets the capability to do it back it becomes illegal" jargen come from? Last I checked the D2 Titan was killed in Fountain or something, which there are plenty of BoB Friendly pos's in and is a hop skip and a jump away from Delve which is loaded with BoB pos's. If your going to try and argue a point with me sir, make sure you are reading the same page of the book as the rest of the class To be fair you are kind of putting words in peoples mouths, AND you are agressively trying to argue a point that the OP was not trying to make. OP was commenting on CCP's lack of decisiveness. The "kind of fishy" deal was how it was illegal for his Alliance to do it, but then later it was legal for you. THEN, it was conveniently made officially illegal after you had done it. Just pointing this out, as you said your English isn't the best, you might not be reading this right. -- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
INZi coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:44:00 - [23] CHECK CHECK I FOUND THE DUDE WHO STARTED IT: FARTHUR OF BOWLIN!
Tecam Hund The Buggers	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:47:00 - [24] Originally by: fugazii Originally by: juduzz Originally by: fugazii when bob can do it, with no chance of it being done back to them it is legal. when other alliance super caps come into picture(hi goons), its made illegal. Fug its been done by BOB AAA, IAC establishment aprently D" you name it, its not some BOB ****. true, however bob is not camping in those peoples space 24/7 therefor they wouldnt be doing it to bob as much as it would be by those being sieged. plus d2's supercaps are up north, yet once the alliance that bob is camping 24/7 gets the ability to do it, the rules change the very day. maybe coincidence, but youve got to admit it smells a bit fishy. So if CCP waited a month before declaring it an exploit, and BoB would be again in a situation where some alliance they siege gets a chance to POS bowl? Or what if CCP waited a month and made it an exploit when BoB ended up in a favorable position to do some POS bowling? Does it mean CCP is helping someone else? Would people please stop with half-witted groundless accusations? This defies any reason frankly.
Leikeze Mrotserif coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:47:00 - [25] OMFG ITS TRUE I WAS THERE!
WarGod Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:51:00 - [26] Originally by: INZi CHECK CHECK I FOUND THE DUDE WHO STARTED IT: FARTHUR OF BOWLIN! But it couldnt have been done without THE INSIDE MAN! You Know!
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Deathwing Secondly you want your screen shots to be the evidence given to the GM's regarding such incidents What is to stop someone from photoshopping an image and getting an honest player banned simply because he/she can I don't understand the OP. GM decisions has ALWAYS been inconsistent. Some GM says this, the other says something completely different and a third one has again some other position. That is nothing new. And well, if at that time the action was allowed, then there is no chance to petition it anyway because it was allowed. Now it is forbidden. The problem here is that POS bowling cannot be proved easily! If you write a petition then the GM will look at it when all the harm is done and the cheater long gone already. Now those bob people can just call up on MSN their GM friends and ask to take a quick look because someone is cheating while all the other players have to wait such long via the petition system that the evidence is already gone The best bet would be to fill a harassment petition I think because they are accessed quite quickly and that is what is happening there to you, a harrassment. And so there are at least some chances that the cheater get caught in the act.
Deathwing Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.31 06:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Deathwing Secondly you want your screen shots to be the evidence given to the GM's regarding such incidents What is to stop someone from photoshopping an image and getting an honest player banned simply because he/she can I don't understand the OP. GM decisions has ALWAYS been inconsistent. Some GM says this, the other says something completely different and a third one has again some other position. That is nothing new. And well, if at that time the action was allowed, then there is no chance to petition it anyway because it was allowed. Now it is forbidden. The problem here is that POS bowling cannot be proved easily! If you write a petition then the GM will look at it when all the harm is done and the cheater long gone already. Now those bob people can just call up on MSN their GM friends and ask to take a quick look because someone is cheating while all the other players have to wait such long via the petition system that the evidence is already gone The best bet would be to fill a harassment petition I think because they are accessed quite quickly and that is what is happening there to you, a harrassment. And so there are at least some chances that the cheater get caught in the act. Can CCP and BoB file a harassment petition againt you for slandering them on the forums by stating that BoB use MSN to by-pass ingame processes for GM investigation and intervention? <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS
Kraken Sra'vik	Posted - 2007.05.31 06:06:00 - [29] Edited by: Kraken Sra''vik on 31/05/2007 06:06:42 Edited by: Kraken Sra''vik on 31/05/2007 06:06:03 Originally by: Deathwing Can CCP and BoB Idk, you tell us
Deathwing Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.31 06:09:00 - [30] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Edited by: Marcus Druallis on 31/05/2007 05:43:45 Originally by: Deathwing fugazii how can you at the start of your post go on about how you are trying to lead a civil discussion and imply that I am a mean man by bringing in "personal atacks and flames", and then finish your post with a personal attack? Clearly your record player is skipping all over the place and you dont know whats happening. Secondly, dont for one second try to back track by saying you were not implying that BoB were the only ones doing it. If other alliances were doing it you would have brought them up as well. Further more, where is this "it seems fishy the day that the alliance that your currently sieging gets the capability to do it back it becomes illegal" jargen come from? Last I checked the D2 Titan was killed in Fountain or something, which there are plenty of BoB Friendly pos's in and is a hop skip and a jump away from Delve which is loaded with BoB pos's. If your going to try and argue a point with me sir, make sure you are reading the same page of the book as the rest of the class To be fair you are kind of putting words in peoples mouths, AND you are agressively trying to argue a point that the OP was not trying to make. OP was commenting on CCP's lack of decisiveness. The "kind of fishy" deal was how it was illegal for his Alliance to do it, but then later it was legal for you. THEN, it was conveniently made officially illegal after you had done it. Just pointing this out, as you said your English isn't the best, you might not be reading this right. Again I refer to the example of....this was not an exploit on monday.....legal on tuesday....and then an exploit again on wednesday the changes in GM policy towards "POS Bowling" was over the course of several months. Do you understand the point I am trying to put accross to you? Something happened to the OP several months ago, shortly after that incident occured the Senior GM's got together and probably decided that there is no way they can effetivly police it so they said it wasnt illegal. For a long time since then it wasnt illegal, only now after many many complaints about it, the Senior GM's probably got together again and for the sake of trying to appease the masses, made it illegal again. <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS

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