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akim
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Posted - 2007.06.02 18:33:00 -
[1]
So... I just listned in on the dev blog/chat. And heard to my horror, in a misguided attempt to help amarr out a bit, they're going to up the cpu requirements on the energized adaptive nano membrane II... Is this for real? The faction that will get hurt by this the most, is by far amarr. Amarr ships are well known for their lack of cpu grid, and being native armor tanks, this will hurt the average amarr fitting quite a bit. I doubt other armor tanking factions, like galante, will even notice this change, as you rarely reach the cpu limit on galante ships. So if this is how you're going to help amarr, then please... just stop "helping" :(
If you're realy serious about helping amarr out a bit, here's a couple other suggestions you can play with...
1) Swap the damage types on lasers. Making thermal the main type instead of EM.
2) Move 10-20% of the natural base armor EM resist to shields. Making base EM resists on the average ship 10-20% on shields and 40-50% on armor.
3) Lower the cap usage of lasers, so you can actualy run a tank AND shoot your guns.
4) Simply boost crystal/laser damage slightly.
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Johnny ReeRee
The ReeRee Brigade
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Posted - 2007.06.02 18:37:00 -
[2]
Have to agree. Of all the possible fixes for the Amarr problem, this is the worst. It's like they don't even play the game. Shield tanking ALREADY > armor tanking, and now it will get worse for Amarr.
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Dalanoria
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.06.02 18:38:00 -
[3]
If this goes through, Ill have to park my pilgrim until i can train recon V up, no way ill be able to tank it propper...As it is, I have 3 cpu left.
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Riho
Gallente
Magnificent Beavers
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.06.02 19:15:00 -
[4]
Hyperion and especially the megathron are going to get hurt by this aswell :(
you need a -5% turrent implant to have eny kind of a fit atm.... but after that its just sad :(
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Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it
Great being Gallente... aint it ?
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YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog
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Ciphero
Furious Vendetta
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.02 19:25:00 -
[5]
The "Amarr is teh nerfed!" whines appeared right after EANMs were buffed, as a now-excellent tanking mod - almost as a side-effect - increased EM resistance. Before that, people generally didn't bother tanking their armor to EM at all.
Nerf EANMs, laser damage is pretty much fixed. |
Khonsu
Rest home for Tired Seadogs
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Posted - 2007.06.02 19:35:00 -
[6]
Did they actually say it is to help Amarr?
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.02 19:38:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Ciphero
The "Amarr is teh nerfed!" whines appeared right after EANMs were buffed, as a now-excellent tanking mod - almost as a side-effect - increased EM resistance. Before that, people generally didn't bother tanking their armor to EM at all.
Nerf EANMs, laser damage is pretty much fixed.
No. You have to change the CPU use of 2x eanm+1xDC to be HIGHER than 3x active hardeners.
Just nerfing EANMs doesnt do anything except make omni tanks a tad bit weaker
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
korrey
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:09:00 -
[8]
Amarr has been the laughing stock 4 races for 6+ months, and groups of people band together to create and note well scripted ideas to fix the race as a whole.
Then one night when everyone at ccp is drunk they ignore everything said on the forums and go for their own shotgun style method...
Wonderful.
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Amarr- If you like to handicap yourself before the fight begins, then we may accomodate your needs surprisingly well. |
xDaKewlGuyx
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:22:00 -
[9]
The best part is that they say they don't think EANMs need nerfs because "invunerability fields are for battleships".
Tell my Caracal that.
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:27:00 -
[10]
#1 - Agreed!
#2 - agreed, but would say 10%shield and 50%armor
#3 - agreed
#4 - I think some lower PG requirements would be better, damage has been ok, just it's almost impossible to fit 8 tachyons and a repper and not have to have racks of RCUs (even with AWU4).
Yes, I can't believe that CPU-upage on EANM is their "solution". What do they want a game where everyone is in Caldari for PVE and Gallente for PVP? oh wait maybe that's already happened, I just missed the memo. 
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Sonorra Baki
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: korrey
Amarr has been the laughing stock 4 races for 6+ months, and groups of people band together to create and note well scripted ideas to fix the race as a whole.
Then one night when everyone at ccp is drunk they ignore everything said on the forums and go for their own shotgun style method...
Wonderful.
heh good point.
You are wrong about the 6 months though.
Amaee has been the joke for more than a year
This may not be work safe  -Capsicum |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: korrey
Amarr has been the laughing stock 4 races for 6+ months, and groups of people band together to create and note well scripted ideas to fix the race as a whole.
Then one night when everyone at ccp is drunk they ignore everything said on the forums and go for their own shotgun style method...
Wonderful.
Not entirely. Amarr did very well in terms of damage output prior to EANM and the passive resist skills. Simply because they do good DPS and range, and hit on 'weak' resists - lots of armour tanks had Kin/Expl hardeners (because it's just dumb not to) making EM/Therm the weaker ones.
I'm fairly sure there was a good discussion back at that point regarding EANMs, and it was very clear that the amarr were the ones who suffered from omnitanking armour. So, a nerf of EANMs would be a reasonable option to resolve the problem.
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Gloomrake Ono
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: akim
I doubt other armor tanking factions, like Gallente, will even notice this change, as you rarely reach the cpu limit on galante ships.
Serious? Ever tried to fit a Mega? Ever tried to fit an Ishtar?
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akim
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:26:00 -
[14]
Edited by: akim on 02/06/2007 23:32:59
Quote:
...
I'm fairly sure there was a good discussion back at that point regarding EANMs, and it was very clear that the amarr were the ones who suffered from omnitanking armour. So, a nerf of EANMs would be a reasonable option to resolve the problem.
True. But they're not suggesting actualy nerfing the EANM values as such (not saying that's the way to go either). Just increasing the cpu requirements slightly. Wich basicly only hurts amarr ships (with a few other exceptions), as they are the ones not being able to fit them any more (atleast not without sacrificing something else). Everyone else will not have much trouble still fitting them.
Thus this change will have the exact opposites effect, of what the devs claim they're trying to achieve.
They also mention a tracking boost to pulses, wich I think is in order. But the EANM change, just seems completely out of place.
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Spike 68
Applied Eugenics
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Posted - 2007.06.03 02:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: akim
I doubt other armor tanking factions, like galante, will even notice this change, as you rarely reach the cpu limit on galante ships.
I agree boosting the cpu of EANM is a bad idea, but this line was pretty funny I have to say. Anyone who flies gallente will know what im talking about. 
This had better be pretty freakin' important... |
Jacob Castillo
Caldari
Copperhead Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.03 03:09:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jacob Castillo on 03/06/2007 03:08:21
Originally by: akim
I doubt other armor tanking factions, like galante, will even notice this change, as you rarely reach the cpu limit on galante ships.
Please tell me you have never tried to fit a Blasterthron. Please, before I hunt you down 
Any kind of EANM CPU increase is going to hurt the Gallente blaster boats.
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Alaron Giancol
Amarr
Resurrection
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.03 04:32:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Alaron Giancol on 03/06/2007 04:31:59
A) most amarr ships run into PG limits before CPU limits
B) T2 hardeners will now have the same CPU as EANM II
I can't comment on Gallente fittings, but from what I understand they run into CPU problems before PG
We don't get information anymore, we get spin.
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.06.03 04:54:00 -
[18]
what exactly is better about shield tanking.....? you have no mid slots for ANYTHIGN. Armor is better in just about every situation.
Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism.
Originally by: Dianabolic
We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
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Arnold Duncan
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Posted - 2007.06.03 10:41:00 -
[19]
Now... don't be so harsh on this change.
I'm sure devs will increase cpu on all amarr ships of about 30% to compensate this and to allow us to finally use some t2 hardeners and mods, instead of the best named we are already forced to use due to lack of cpu we already have. 
Or this will be the final blow to an already gimped race.
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.06.03 11:15:00 -
[20]
Well if armour tankers fit less EANM II's as a result of this change then it is a boost for Amarr. There are no two ways about it. If they mess up the figures and just make it hard for Amarr to fit them then we have a problem. One more step towards Gallente domination.
It's a definite boost to shield tankers though so I'm laughing.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.03 11:54:00 -
[21]
The problem really is that even if they use equal CPU (and they don't due to DC using less) I would rather use 2 EAN2 and DC2 than 3 active harderners. The 60% hull resistances are a HUGE bonus.
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Keruli
Amarr
Frontier Combine Inc
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Posted - 2007.06.03 12:27:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Any kind of EANM CPU increase is going to hurt the Gallente blaster boats.
yup it is going to hurt them, theyll have to use a CPU like Amarr had to use couple of RCU...
i am afraid although about amarr...theres no room for cpu ...
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.06.03 12:29:00 -
[23]
I'd like to point out the obvius, that both laser and hybrid weapons do about 1/3 Thermal in short range, and thermal drones are the most used due to highest damage. If lasers are swapped to 2/3 thermal 1/3 em EM will be the most used damage type, changing the most used tank from 2xeanm+dc to 2x eanm +dc +thermal hardener or so, and the situation will not significantly change, except that em is effectively removed as a damage type, since no weapon system does significant amounts of em damage.
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P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
korrey
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.03 12:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aramendel
The problem really is that even if they use equal CPU (and they don't due to DC using less) I would rather use 2 EAN2 and DC2 than 3 active harderners. The 60% hull resistances are a HUGE bonus.
For me, 55% resistances > 2 EANM II and DCU II. Or at least now that they use the same CPU. The only reason I fit an EANM was its CPU requirements and Pg requirements were fairly low.
Now that it will be changed, I might as well go with 2 Active 55% hardeners and a DCU...more resistances, same fitting, and takes a tad bit of cap.
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Amarr- If you like to handicap yourself before the fight begins, then we may accomodate your needs surprisingly well. |
Christopher Dalran
Gallente
Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.03 16:46:00 -
[25]
I can fit better tanks with active than i can with EANMII's, the only times I have ever fit EANM's is to save cap or if i know i'm going to get nossed alot.
This change will do very little, in fact I would expect amarr to have an even harder time after this change (enemy tanks get a little better and Amarr used EANMII's more than anyone else).
-------------------------------
C.D's Formula for success
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Credit Card = Game Time Card
Gametime Card = ISK
Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.03 16:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dalanoria
If this goes through, Ill have to park my pilgrim until i can train recon V up, no way ill be able to tank it propper...As it is, I have 3 cpu left.
I tried this on sisi and it fit with recon4:
2x nos, 1x neut, cloak
t1 mwd, faint scram, cetus ecm burst, 2x phased muon damps.
accomodation rep, 800mm plate, dcu II, eanm II, adaptive plating II.
you can get shadow serp rep also... Resists were still pretty solid :o
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.06.03 17:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: akim
I doubt other armor tanking factions, like galante, will even notice this change, as you rarely reach the cpu limit on galante ships.
ROFLMAO, you suck big, 0% respect.
My hyperion, megathron and navy issue vex all have faction platings on it, else it just wont fit. You dont see me whining do you. 
_________________________________________________
Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.03 17:48:00 -
[28]
The idea is not fix ammar. Is reintroduce the concept that most ships should have a hole in armor! That is specially serious in armor tanking. Even the EANM being inferior to Invul field, its enough when side by side with the lots low slots available to armor tank, so that armor tankers have very uniform tanks.
CCp does nto want that, ccp wants weak spots!
Alsop to the ones saying switching thermal with EM on lasers woudl help.. LOL!!!
then 70% of daamge in game will be thermal and everyone will be using 2 Thermal HArdners II
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.03 18:12:00 -
[29]
I don't use 2x eanm II+dc II for quite some time. Those 50% to everyhting with 3 slots used is good, however having 70% across with 4 slots is better, especially with all hp boosts(where plates aren't really overpowered anymore)
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I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.03 19:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: LUKEC
Edited by: LUKEC on 03/06/2007 18:15:04
I don't use 2x eanm II+dc II for quite some time. Those 50% to everyhting with 3 slots used is good, however having 70% across with 4 slots is better(requires gang link), especially with all hp boosts(where plates aren't really overpowered anymore)
Only serious "weakness" of 2x eanm II+dcII is that command ships with links don't have much effect anymore. Does 1 plate/1 dmg mod outweight resistance buff and having greatest hole to EM which is rare as hell? Depends really imo. If you have chance to get remote repped, then 4 slot tank is win.
exactly... but only at BC and battleship levels. Other ships usually dont have enough low slots, so the 3 slots option is good for them. All my Battleships always have 3 hardeners (ok for minmatar that is even more advisable due to EM beign already impervious by nature) + EANM II and if i have spare slots DC II
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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