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Why can't MWD at least do SOMETHING in deadspace?

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Tamaara Amarr Ahkentari	Posted - 2007.06.05 16:24:00 - [1] If you're going to have a mod eat up a mid slot and 25% of your cap can't you at least get AB speeds out of it if you end up in deadspace? MWD is more expensive to fit and to activate so I don't really see any imbalance to allowing it to function as an AB as well. Maybe I'm missing something here.
Agent Li	Posted - 2007.06.05 16:28:00 - [2] Originally by: Tamaara If you're going to have a mod eat up a mid slot and 25% of your cap can't you at least get AB speeds out of it if you end up in deadspace? MWD is more expensive to fit and to activate so I don't really see any imbalance to allowing it to function as an AB as well. Maybe I'm missing something here. Maybe you buy both, and depending on what you plan on doing, you switch out to use either the AB or the MWD. That's what the rest of us do. ------------------ "Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all."
Judas Lonestar Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.05 16:33:00 - [3] Hello, McFly? It DOES do something. It takes up a slot.
Tamaara Amarr Ahkentari	Posted - 2007.06.05 16:45:00 - [4] Originally by: Judas Lonestar Hello, McFly? It DOES do something. It takes up a slot. And 25% of the cap, yay. lol
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.06.05 16:47:00 - [5] Originally by: Tamaara Originally by: Judas Lonestar Hello, McFly? It DOES do something. It takes up a slot. And 25% of the cap, yay. lol lol. Because I said so...
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:12:00 - [6] Edited by: madaluap on 05/06/2007 17:11:44 IF you are going into deadspace, why not fit a AB. This will only make it easier to gank complex -and missionsrunners. Which i dont mind tbh . _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Kurieg Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:38:00 - [7] Because CCP has a deal with T2 AB producers to keep at least 1 good use of AB's in the game....
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:58:00 - [8] Originally by: Kurieg Because CCP has a deal with T2 AB producers to keep at least 1 good use of AB's in the game.... Oh I don't know, an AB can give enough speed to avoid BS guns and doesn't increase your signature or nerf your capacitor. Maybe your flying a logistics or command ship and need all the cap you can get but still want some speed increase. AB's realy need to be looked at with a little lateral thinking. Anyway I can understand MWD's not working in certain complexes that also don't allow warp. Natural Phenomenon been an obvious reason. But if you can warp out then why shouldn't a MWD work? Doesn't make sense to me.
Gartel Reiman Project F3	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Nian Banks But if you can warp out then why shouldn't a MWD work? Heh, because imagine the fun you'd have if the 'natural phenomena' stopped your warp drive from working at all and you had to slowboat it all the way out of the deadspace area... I suppose a reasonable way to think of it is that you can't warp if your destination is in deadspace. That's why when you warp in you end up at the acceleration gate. In this case warping out is fine, and if you think of MWDs as performing lots of tiny warps straight ahead then they're still warps to spots inside the deadspace and are cancelled out by the phenomena.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Gartel Reiman Originally by: Nian Banks But if you can warp out then why shouldn't a MWD work? Heh, because imagine the fun you'd have if the 'natural phenomena' stopped your warp drive from working at all and you had to slowboat it all the way out of the deadspace area... I suppose a reasonable way to think of it is that you can't warp if your destination is in deadspace. That's why when you warp in you end up at the acceleration gate. In this case warping out is fine, and if you think of MWDs as performing lots of tiny warps straight ahead then they're still warps to spots inside the deadspace and are cancelled out by the phenomena. Ah! But there is such a thing, I have come across it a few times, the usual 300km from Acceleration gate to Acceleration gate where you had to slow boat it due to natural phenomenon. Especially in some missions. So yes I expect you to keep going forward, bit of a scary idea ey... :) Oh and btw why don't Warp Disruptors work on MWD's? It would be fair cop that a MWD using warp would also not work...

Kulmid Nubs. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Nian Banks Oh and btw why don't Warp Disruptors work on MWD's? It would be fair cop that a MWD using warp would also not work... I've thought about this a few times, would really nerf inty's tbh ~~~~~~~~~~~ Success is the time between when you do something, and when you tell a woman what you did. "What is this RL? There is only AFK."
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Kulmid Originally by: Nian Banks Oh and btw why don't Warp Disruptors work on MWD's? It would be fair cop that a MWD using warp would also not work... I've thought about this a few times, would really nerf inty's tbh So you just buff the AB a little.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.05 21:11:00 - [13] From the start deadspace where just supposed to be one of many different types of space that effected your ship in different way but now more and more of the game is becoming deadspace, almost all mission, all exploration, all the new encounters comming in Rev 2 etc etc etc. They really need to reconsider making everything deadspace. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Chainsaw Plankton	Posted - 2007.06.05 21:34:00 - [14] it also makes using short range weapons rather hard to use. blasters in a level 4, woo flying the 40km in a bs + the distance the npc moves, with an afterburner sounds entertaining...
Valandril Caldari Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2007.06.05 21:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Kulmid Originally by: Nian Banks Oh and btw why don't Warp Disruptors work on MWD's? It would be fair cop that a MWD using warp would also not work... I've thought about this a few times, would really nerf inty's tbh Inty/gallente/matar/amarr/anyotherthingwithmwd not rly nice idea :P ---
Maeltstome Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.06.05 21:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton it also makes using short range weapons rather hard to use. blasters in a level 4, woo flying the 40km in a bs + the distance the npc moves, with an afterburner sounds entertaining... Agree'd, basically forces you to go with ranged weapons - and missiles are really kind for that against NPC's. Raven winz app. :(
Nasair	Posted - 2007.06.05 23:25:00 - [17] I would assume scrams dont affect MWDs becuase the effect is much smaller and easier to control/shield.
Kehmor Caldari The Movement	Posted - 2007.06.06 00:11:00 - [18] Edited by: Kehmor on 06/06/2007 00:10:35 Not a bad idea to be honest. For those morons too ignorant to understand this is for the situations where you have scanned down a mission runner and it is impracticle or impossible to alter setup (e.g. no station, you're in a frig and flagged). Not neccesary but I wouldn't argue with the change, I'm sure a lot of carebears will though, and "real" pirates under the impression that because they cn cange a module they are "adapting". The afterburner would still be useful and superior for deadspace as you wouldnt suffer extra fitting and cap penalty. Just give the MWD's the same speed boost as their corresponding AB. The Movement is recruiting!
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.06 01:07:00 - [19] I'd rather see MWDs work in deadspace and ABs given an appropriate buff so that they're more useful in combat.
Gee Lok	Posted - 2007.06.06 02:31:00 - [20] MWDs were nerfed in deadspace to stop people from sprinting between locked gates and thereby avoiding them iirc.

Dragonrazor Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.06 04:03:00 - [21] I NEVER liked the way MWD and AB were handled in this game... The way I wanted MWD to work: Allows you to make a micro warp to a specified location nearby + or - a small amount of deviation. Open up the tactical display, hold down shift and extend a marker on the X/Y plane, let go of the mouse button and adjust location on the Z plane, adjust X/Y by holding down left mouse again... Set destination by letting go of space bar. Once you let go of the space bar, your warp engines spool up and you align like normal, then hop at low warp speed to the location specified just like a normal warp, but at ultra short range. Power consumption would be extreme due to the nature of the kind of warp being performed, draining your cap to a noticeable amount. Alternatively, you should be able to right click a target object and if you have MWD, you have the alternative movement option of micro warping within X KM of the object. To keep things somewhat interesting one could make the MWD use booster charges instead of ship cap, or have it use ship cap if no boosters are loaded, the MWD device would also or additionally require cap booster charges (50s for small, 100's for medium, 400's for large or something like that). Lastly, the module has an activation duration of say 10-20 seconds modded by skills. It cannot be activated in deadspace, or while under any effect that inhibits warping (bubble/scrambler etc). Webbers have no effect on them. This would make MWD what it should have been, not a super afterburner, but rather a point to point module similar in some respects to teleporation. Close range fighters in combat would find them invaluable... but would still need an AB... Little or no need for the silly negative effects it has on your ship now either... IE Cap penalty, or sig. Afterburners: These should remain unchanged. Hyper thrust Afterburners: These would operate much like a cross between an AB, and a current MWD. They would have a speed boost of maybe 300-400%, and would incur a cap penalty of 25% (just like MWD), but with no sig penalty. They would require cap boosters as fuel (50's for small, 100's for medium and maybe 400 for large like the MWD). They would have huge carrying capacity for these boosters, however they cannot be unloaded in space, but they can be reloaded from cargo... When a booster charge is placed in the module, it cannot be removed without docking and using the fitting screen to do it. The module should be able to fit a large number of them... 20 or more perhaps. The module should have a duration of 5-10 seconds modded by skills. The reason for this module is to allow short range ships to retain their MWD like speeds and stay on target, but do so for only limited periods before running out of gas. Furthermore, they would be 100% usable in deadpsace, or while under any warp negating effect. Anyway, just an idea. ******************************************* "Stars Die... Empires fall... We are dust..." *******************************************
Rysith	Posted - 2007.06.06 06:48:00 - [22] I like the idea of MWDs allowing point-to-point warp. I think that warping to arbitrary locations (from "that ship over there" to "This point in the system scanner" to "1 million KM that way") would help with a lot of things (like sniper blobs), and I can't see a reason why you couldn't feed some navigation coordinates into your warp drive and have it work (You can already do it with bookmarks, this just removes the "first you have to fly there" part. The only issue that I can see is the avoiding combat issue: If I can escape the moment I'm not scrambled (with a warp 100km in the direction that I'm aligned in followed by a warp to somewhere else) , then we'll get a whole new wave of people complaining that everyone runs away rather than fighting. I'm also not sure that I like it using cap boosters to activate, and should probably run off the ship's capacitor (though requiring 400 capacitor for a BS micro-jump would be fine with me).
Spider Iarus	Posted - 2007.06.07 00:18:00 - [23] I very, very much agree with you - object now known as the 'MWD' should be a very, very expensive Point-to-point tool with some ships given increased utility. I think it's afterburners that should be boosted - or, more appropriately, ship mass should vary WILDLY even within the same general class to allow some ships a much better return off of an AB.
Storm Strike	Posted - 2007.06.07 00:29:00 - [24] Yes!! Love the idea, it would make combat much more interesting with a point to point mwd though it would have to be subject to disruptors unlike the current version.
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.06.07 00:47:00 - [25] Originally by: Dragonrazor I NEVER liked the way MWD and AB were handled in this game... The way I wanted MWD to work: Allows you to make a micro warp to a specified location nearby + or - a small amount of deviation. Open up the tactical display, hold down shift and extend a marker on the X/Y plane, let go of the mouse button and adjust location on the Z plane, adjust X/Y by holding down left mouse again... always nice to see a fellow Homeworld player this is a great concept but I'm afraid in the current state of things it can't be put to use (just to give a quick example, you see a ship at 13 AU on scanner, and jump directly on top of it, thus avoiding any time delay and not using scan probes).
Spider Iarus	Posted - 2007.06.07 04:12:00 - [26] I think people talking point-to-point were thinking more in the 200 - 300 km range, not jumping AU's. That's what your actual warp drive is for. I'd like to see it set something like 10% max cap = 10km...
TimMc Phoenix Inc	Posted - 2007.06.07 06:42:00 - [27] Originally by: NIkis Originally by: Dragonrazor I NEVER liked the way MWD and AB were handled in this game... The way I wanted MWD to work: Allows you to make a micro warp to a specified location nearby + or - a small amount of deviation. Open up the tactical display, hold down shift and extend a marker on the X/Y plane, let go of the mouse button and adjust location on the Z plane, adjust X/Y by holding down left mouse again... always nice to see a fellow Homeworld player this is a great concept but I'm afraid in the current state of things it can't be put to use (just to give a quick example, you see a ship at 13 AU on scanner, and jump directly on top of it, thus avoiding any time delay and not using scan probes). Originally by: Spider Iarus I think people talking point-to-point were thinking more in the 200 - 300 km range, not jumping AU's. That's what your actual warp drive is for. I'd like to see it set something like 10% max cap = 10km... Yeah I like the idea of point-to-point MWD, would mean ships would have to equip MWD AND AB if they wanted to tackle well. This could also encourage long range combat in PvP, instead of the blasterboats. Oh yeah, and Homeworld ftw, I still play it alot.
Hectaire Glade Forum Jockey	Posted - 2007.06.07 09:17:00 - [28] I was about to jump in and post the usual 'MWD = ceptor speed tanking whole complex' argument for no MWD in deadpsace, but then read though this thread and saw the great idea of changing MWD to be point-to-point as opposed to the current omgwtf7kms. I would love to see the change but would unfortinately have to stop reading the forums for 3 months because of the level of bewailing which would ensue from forcing so many people to change tactics.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:35:00 - [29] ok think of it this way ab makes you move faster by burning more fule or some such mwd creates lots of little warp bubbles to move you along a short distance faster the natural phenomanon make it so you can't get a lock on where you're warping to thus mwd's do nothing because they don't know where they are trying to make you go and using one would rip your ship apart into a million different peices tear a hole in space and release millions of monster that would eat up the universe and ending eve forever.... do you want to be the person who broke eve?
Spider Iarus	Posted - 2007.06.08 01:23:00 - [30] Ah, the change in tactics with this would be so intense...imagine having a blob fight going nice and well and suddently - bloop, battleships in the middle of your formation. And as mentioned above making it perma 1 point scrambleable (i.e. even one scram locks it down regardless of fitted WCS) would balance it nicely and keep tackling gear right where it's at.



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