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Why would Tech 2 BS be uber

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bldyannoyed Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:58:00 - [1] Edited by: bldyannoyed on 06/06/2007 15:03:15 Edited by: bldyannoyed on 06/06/2007 14:57:17 It seems to me that most peoples argument against " HAC Like" BS is that they would be the undisputed solo pwnmobiles of Eve. Well. Theyre probably right. But so what? Think of it this way: Af pwns frig, mebbe cruiser HAC pwns frig, Af, cruiser, maybe a BC Command ship pwns everything except a good BS A good BS pwns all except a Doomsday So why is it a problem if theres another level of Pwn? Its not like a HAC BS would be so much more powerful. Realistically an extra 25% EXTRA dps, assuming u trained whatever rank 14 spec skill u need to fly one to lvl5, some extra resists and some extra HP. Though given that CS have less than the tech 1 BC theyre based on thats not guaranteed. Yeah, 1 v 1 it would bash a BS. But 2 v 1 against 2 good Bs pilots? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Anyway, the point is GIVE US SHINY TECH2 BS DAMMIT Edit. TBH i dont care if they dont have any extra stats at all. I just really REALLY want a Mega with the Deimos skin on it. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
The Navigator	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:02:00 - [2] T2 Typhoon!!! <3
DarkXenon	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:14:00 - [3] Originally by: bldyannoyed Edited by: bldyannoyed on 06/06/2007 15:03:15 Edited by: bldyannoyed on 06/06/2007 14:57:17 It seems to me that most peoples argument against " HAC Like" BS is that they would be the undisputed solo pwnmobiles of Eve. Well. Theyre probably right. But so what? Think of it this way: Af pwns frig, mebbe cruiser HAC pwns frig, Af, cruiser, maybe a BC Command ship pwns everything except a good BS A good BS pwns all except a Doomsday So why is it a problem if theres another level of Pwn? Its not like a HAC BS would be so much more powerful. Realistically an extra 25% EXTRA dps, assuming u trained whatever rank 14 spec skill u need to fly one to lvl5, some extra resists and some extra HP. Though given that CS have less than the tech 1 BC theyre based on thats not guaranteed. Yeah, 1 v 1 it would bash a BS. But 2 v 1 against 2 good Bs pilots? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Anyway, the point is GIVE US SHINY TECH2 BS DAMMIT Edit. TBH i dont care if they dont have any extra stats at all. I just really REALLY want a Mega with the Deimos skin on it. Agreed, I want to fly round in a solo pwn mobile
Waxau Amarr Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:31:00 - [4] um - Kinda removes the whole challenge aspect from eve dont you think? BS can kill all t2 ship under it near enough...so a t2 BS would be the single best solo ship in game - Thus removing the enjoyment and challenge of playing. Maybe thats why. Its in OUR best interest, and CCP's best interest, not to have that.
DeathToKittens Minmatar Eve's Brothers of Destiny	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:32:00 - [5] I agree with OP. I mean it will give us another area to specialize in, along with probably making the jump between battleships and and capital ships more manageable. But I would like to see them as not just a BS with 25% more DPS. Maybe something more of a specialized ship. Maybe better EW, more speed or even a BS with bonus to fleet mods. ------------------------------- DTK
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:36:00 - [6] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/06/2007 15:36:12 Tech 2 battleships could possibly work as support ships, with crappy firepower and some other role than dps in battle. Personally I dont believe introducing new ships just because we're bored is very good. Because it never ends. 6 months after tech 2 battleships we want tech 3 command ships. Etc etc. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:42:00 - [7] The OP kinda shot himself in the foot, imo. If a good BS can pwn anything below it, and all that can kill it is gangs (true of everything) or capital ships, then we don't need anything in the middle. All the difference would be is that there's a BS2 which can pwn anything below it including BSs. I agree I want shiny, but I'd rather see tier 4 BSs with different abilities than a wtfbbqpwnmobile.
Xtreem Gallente Viking Research and Production space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:51:00 - [8] i dont care if they like lower than a bs, i just want new models!!!
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:02:00 - [9] Sure, make them cost 4-5 billion isk, take 2 years to train for. ______ Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:06:00 - [10] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I agree I want shiny, but I'd rather see tier 4 BSs with different abilities than a wtfbbqpwnmobile. I'd rather see more Tier 1 BS, BCs and Cruisers. Eve really doesn't needs more of the same. Give all the races except Caldari a Tier 1 EWar BS, and give Caldari a split-weapon Tier 1 BS, like the typhoon but with diff slot arrangements, slower and maybe a bit tougher. Give all the races cheaper, crappier versions of their current Tier 3 Cruisers, and give all the races another Tier 1 BC that uses either no specific weapon system, or a split weapon system with bonuses to both. Or something. MORE VARIETY! --- Originally by: Wild Rho I'm having a hard time getting over the irony of spelling "dumb" wrong.
Ronin Reborn Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:22:00 - [11] Edited by: Ronin Reborn on 06/06/2007 16:24:29 Reading the OP, Tech2 BS would seem to encourage blobbing. IE, they have 4 tech2 BS, we should bring 8 just to compete. And what happens when 2 gallente t2 BS face off? They can already almost permatank each other, what happens when you add in racial resists? You think amarr players will be happy facing a t2 armor tanked tempest? So what ends up happening is people either cap out (yay for amarr, gallente) or call in backup to blob while they just hold a point and tank. Even if they we're made extremely expensive, ie a billion each, there a several groups who can afford to field entire fleets of them which would make 0.0 even harder to break into than it already is. If they were made too cheap, anyone who couldn't fly one would be considered largely useless. Seriously, what are you going to use it for? Just buy a faction fit faction bs and stop asking for a t2 bs if all you want is a HAC BS.
VaderDSL Caldari Incoherent Inc	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:37:00 - [12] Tech 2 should be anti-cap ships, with the proliferation of capital ships in eve. They shoul;d not have uber tanks (but nicer resistances and capacitor bonuses) they should get power grid reductions to cap dtyle guns maybe? and inrease to tracking, but lower ROF.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:56:00 - [13] A Tech II BS? Personally, I'd like to see a Rokh variant battleship with tracking speed and shield booster bonuses. A proper PvP heavy support ship capable of functioning in the 15-30km range against ships as small as Interdictor/Destroyers.
Lasati	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:57:00 - [14] Edited by: Lasati on 07/06/2007 11:58:13 Here's my solution. Make two varieties of tech2 battleships: "Flagships" and "Science Vessels." Flagships are cap-ship killers. Also can fit fleet warfare mods. But they can't track anything smaller than a BC (hitting a BC in a flagship is like hitting a frigate in a BS). Also used as tanks in level V combat missions. Science Vessels have labs on board, and are built for deep-space exploration and travel. Otherwise just slightly more powerful than a BS. Build for level V science missions (something I just made up).
Earthan Gallente The Absolutely Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2007.06.07 12:03:00 - [15] Originally by: bldyannoyed Edited by: bldyannoyed on 06/06/2007 15:03:15 Edited by: bldyannoyed on 06/06/2007 14:57:17 It seems to me that most peoples argument against " HAC Like" BS is that they would be the undisputed solo pwnmobiles of Eve. Well. Theyre probably right. But so what? Think of it this way: Af pwns frig, mebbe cruiser HAC pwns frig, Af, cruiser, maybe a BC Command ship pwns everything except a good BS A good BS pwns all except a Doomsday So why is it a problem if theres another level of Pwn? Its not like a HAC BS would be so much more powerful. Realistically an extra 25% EXTRA dps, assuming u trained whatever rank 14 spec skill u need to fly one to lvl5, some extra resists and some extra HP. Though given that CS have less than the tech 1 BC theyre based on thats not guaranteed. Yeah, 1 v 1 it would bash a BS. But 2 v 1 against 2 good Bs pilots? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Anyway, the point is GIVE US SHINY TECH2 BS DAMMIT Edit. TBH i dont care if they dont have any extra stats at all. I just really REALLY want a Mega with the Deimos skin on it. Im strongly against tech2 bs in the form of hac bs. It would kill all the balance. - Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy hunting stories
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.06.07 12:51:00 - [16] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 07/06/2007 12:58:07 HABS (Heavy Assault BS) Would simply raise the bar for 0.0 entry. However I see nothing wrong with T2 BS that do almost anything else. POS shield Generator BS: Requires Fuel Flagship BS: High resists, Gang mod support, low DPS for keeping FC's alive) Anti-Capital: Fit a small number of XL weapons or the same number with a damage/rof penalty Mini-Carrier: A fighter equipped BS with logistics boni and no turret/missile slots Covert Ops BS: Generates a stealth field (for squad/wing) as well as being capable of personal cloaking Interdiction BS: Activates a large warp disruption bubble centered on itself List goes on.... These wouldn't raise the bar for small corps or newer players... in fact it would lower it. As an additional bonus some provide a logical progression towards capital ships instead of the huge gap we have now. [EDIT: Dropped an "m"... get back where you belong little consonant. ]
bldyannoyed Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.07 13:47:00 - [17] Edited by: bldyannoyed on 07/06/2007 13:53:01 Edited by: bldyannoyed on 07/06/2007 13:46:15 I still dont see the problem. When Dreadnoughts were first touted they were described as BS killers, and everyone was all for it. They turned out to be POS bashers. So why not have a Tech 2 BS, that gets bonuses to its BS sized weapons, making it effectively an anti-BS BS. As is aptly demonstrated by the existing HACS an extra layer of bonuses and some nice resist does not a solo pwn mobile make. Sac, Cerb,Eagle, Muninn, Deimos? Without some serious thought and mean skills and a bit of luck on top none of those ships are Uber solo face melters. It frustrates me no end that there is no where to go with a BS specced pilot. Cap ships are about as exciting as dry paint. Why shouldnt there be some other way of specialising with BS, instead of just jumpnig into a dread and spending the rest of you're life sat in front of a POS? Christ, id fly a Deimos'd up Megathron if it had the caveat " Cannot fit warp disrupters " And another thing. Why do people think that being able to fit 2 or 3 XL weapons would make an anti-capital BS. Do you have any idea how much firepower it takes to break the siege tank of a dreadnought? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Neuromandis Novastorm Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.07 14:10:00 - [18] Edited by: Neuromandis on 07/06/2007 14:11:36 HABS is out of the question for me, because fortunately the op is close enough, but not 100% to the point. BS does not PWN anything below it. BS can be taken down with a few cruisers SOME BC'S/HAC'S AND CS's et.c. What would it take to down BS with HAC resists? Not a good idea IMO. What I could imagine is a kind of "mini-dreadnaught", a Cap-killer. Something in the lines of the following. Normal tier 3 BS slot layouts (8 highslots) The following Role bonuses: -75% turret tracking (or missile explosion velocity) +200% turret sig resolution (or missile explosive radius) (these two make sure it COMPLETELY useless agains anything but a capship) +100% large missile/large turret damage (this makes sure that when it shoots, cap-ships hurt) And also, Worst-grade T2 resists (i.e. NOT HAC, but inty resists: a flat +10% bonus to its 2 racial resistances), giving it a slight tank bonus against BS but NOT our new brickwall for baiting. Even slower and less agile than a battleship. *Racial bonuses to tank and turret/missile damage, preferably.
VaderDSL Caldari Incoherent Inc	Posted - 2007.06.07 14:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Neuromandis Edited by: Neuromandis on 07/06/2007 14:11:36 HABS is out of the question for me, because fortunately the op is close enough, but not 100% to the point. BS does not PWN anything below it. BS can be taken down with a few cruisers SOME BC'S/HAC'S AND CS's et.c. What would it take to down BS with HAC resists? Not a good idea IMO. What I could imagine is a kind of "mini-dreadnaught", a Cap-killer. Something in the lines of the following. Normal tier 3 BS slot layouts (8 highslots) The following Role bonuses: -75% turret tracking (or missile explosion velocity) +200% turret sig resolution (or missile explosive radius) (these two make sure it COMPLETELY useless agains anything but a capship) +100% large missile/large turret damage (this makes sure that when it shoots, cap-ships hurt) And also, Worst-grade T2 resists (i.e. NOT HAC, but inty resists: a flat +10% bonus to its 2 racial resistances), giving it a slight tank bonus against BS but NOT our new brickwall for baiting. Even slower and less agile than a battleship. *Racial bonuses to tank and turret/missile damage, preferably. What about a jump drive also? but with larger fuel requirements? and they should have massive cargo bays
Ronin Reborn Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.06.07 14:59:00 - [20] Just make them a total support ship if you must have them. Maybe a 2/2 split of ew and logistics boni with a naturally high scan resolution and great cap regen. Allow 1 gang mod but no turrets or launchers. It'd be a ship that would definately find a role in pos takedowns before the cyno jammer was destroyed. One could argue that current logistics ships could do the job but against a deathstar, particularly with a player controlling the guns, they'd be instapop'd.
Plave Okice Gallente Combat Systems	Posted - 2007.06.07 15:43:00 - [21] Edited by: Plave Okice on 07/06/2007 15:42:26 I've always liked the fleet support or mini carrier idea. Only 2 or 3 turret/missile slots, able to fit extra drone control units (but not a bay big enough for fighters), bonuses to support drones like repping drones and maybe up to 5 warfare links. Slow, very slow, poor agility, high resists, great tankers. That's what I'd like the Gallente T2 BS to be, oh and Hyperion hull please. EDIT - oh and the ability to use a short range jump drive as well as gates. Got BS V and Command V trained ready.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.07 16:40:00 - [22] Originally by: VaderDSL Tech 2 should be anti-cap ships, with the proliferation of capital ships in eve. They shoul;d not have uber tanks (but nicer resistances and capacitor bonuses) they should get power grid reductions to cap dtyle guns maybe? and inrease to tracking, but lower ROF. No ****. I would have no problem if the role of tech II BS's would be anti capital support.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.06.07 16:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Janu Hull A Tech II BS? Personally, I'd like to see a Rokh variant battleship with tracking speed and shield booster bonuses. A proper PvP heavy support ship capable of functioning in the 15-30km range against ships as small as Interdictor/Destroyers. They are called logistics ships, try using them --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:44:00 - [24] Give Tech II Battleships a Seige Mode. Dreadnoughts in Seige mode are the traditional "encirclement" fighters around a POS "castle". Make your T2 Anti-capitals the outer ring in a double encirclement. When they enter seige mode, they get massive increases to large weapon damage, as mentioned here already, which gives them the ability to throw major hurt on an entrenched dreadnought. Another application of the T2 Battleship seige mode would be to offer alliances an entry level ability into POS breaking, and to give existing alliances the ability to use a smaller, more cost friendly mode of seige warfare. With the new Cyno suppressor fields coming in Revelations 2, it would be nice if the existance of a capital ship*****blocker didn't completely eliminate the possibility of continuing seige warfare.
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.07 19:35:00 - [25] simple equation T2 BS + BoB = BoBwinEVE = Game Over
Xoduse Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.06.07 20:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Ronin Reborn Edited by: Ronin Reborn on 06/06/2007 16:24:29 Reading the OP, Tech2 BS would seem to encourage blobbing. IE, they have 4 tech2 BS, we should bring 8 just to compete. And what happens when 2 gallente t2 BS face off? They can already almost permatank each other, what happens when you add in racial resists? You think amarr players will be happy facing a t2 armor tanked tempest? So what ends up happening is people either cap out (yay for amarr, gallente) or call in backup to blob while they just hold a point and tank. Even if they we're made extremely expensive, ie a billion each, there a several groups who can afford to field entire fleets of them which would make 0.0 even harder to break into than it already is. If they were made too cheap, anyone who couldn't fly one would be considered largely useless. Seriously, what are you going to use it for? Just buy a faction fit faction bs and stop asking for a t2 bs if all you want is a HAC BS. GFT. This is pretty much exactly how i see it affecting game balance. If you dont mind them costing a cool bil, go buy a faction BS. The vindi is sexay. ---------------------
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.07 23:07:00 - [27] My personal idea woudl be. Take the existign BS. Give faction BS HP level. an improved resist level (would say 30% to one and 15% to other). Keep the bonuses but change form LArge guns to X Large guns. Give pG reduction iusage on X-Large guns. Okay you have something that can hit very slow movign BS and capital ships. Far from solo pwonmobile. But imagine the damage a tempest with 6xX-LArge arties would do to a capital ship? Give thwemn extremely high lock range and sensor strengh to make them hard to neut with a single Ewar ship. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Antillies Mercenaries of Andosia Naval Academy Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.06.07 23:38:00 - [28] I liked the idea of making the tech 2 bs have the ability to Jump portal small gangs short distances 5 - 10 peeps max. I dont want to see something with uber resists and more damage, i want to see the mold broken and something new and intresting come out.
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.08 01:31:00 - [29] Edited by: Byzan Zwyth on 08/06/2007 01:32:43 I think they would be fine with specialised bonuses and not made to be BS eating machines. Tech 2 resists are fine but maybe less a couple of slots so they are not totaly uber compared to T1 Versions. And a Logistics bonus. Like a Tech 2 Geddon... Battleship bonus: 10% reduction in laser capacitor use per level, 5% reduction in Capacitor transfer cap use. Other skill bonus: 10% bonus to Drone Damage and armor/shield HP's per level, 20% bonus to energy transfer module range per level. Similar other stats like Shield/armor/hull HP's & Speed etc Amarr Tech 2 ship resistances ~225m3 drone bay Slot Layout 6/4/6 High/Med/Low (6 turrets, 2 missile) - maybe even 5 mids? Less grid, bit more CPU What you have is a battleship which as an extra bonus but it's only useful to help gang members. It has better resists than a geddon but less slots to tank with. And it's a drone battleship which is something amarr really want. Flame away or give me a job at CCP ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
Zhaymus Hockhold DEATH'S LEGION Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.06.08 01:53:00 - [30] There are so many options better than adding HABs. Make it specialized definetely, no wtfbbqpwnmobiles. If anything, reading thread after thread on these forums people want more role ships not more droll ships. I saw this in the Features thread, you know where you're ACTUALLY supposed to put threads discussing new content: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=493591 I'm kind of in to this version, mini-dreads that kill captials, nice imo.

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