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Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:22:00 -
[1]
Okay Jade I will give you what you want the oppurtuntiy to ask any question you want in the form of a question and I will answer every single one of these truthfully and honestly to the best of my knowledge. I know there is a lot of slander going on in this forum and I hope that my reputation is enough to hold that I have some truth behind my statement above and below. So ask away. This is purely for your benifit and everyone elses here on the forums. This is what you are good out, your wit is sharp and I am willing to do my best. So here we go Jade RONA is here and opening itself to your questions.
http://www.ronacorp.com |
Tango612
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:29:00 -
[2]
This seems like a resonable offer.
However, I really need to speak to Jade in private, about matters totally unrelated to this. |
crice
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:32:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
Okay Jade I will give you what you want the oppurtuntiy to ask any question you want in the form of a question and I will answer every single one of these truthfully and honestly to the best of my knowledge. I know there is a lot of slander going on in this forum and I hope that my reputation is enough to hold that I have some truth behind my statement above and below. So ask away. This is purely for your benifit and everyone elses here on the forums. This is what you are good out, your wit is sharp and I am willing to do my best. So here we go Jade RONA is here and opening itself to your questions.
Will you answer my questions also?
Crice
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Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:35:00 -
[4]
Go ahead Crice. I will answer peoples questions to the best of my knowledge.
http://www.ronacorp.com |
crice
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:40:00 -
[5]
Quote:
Go ahead Crice. I will answer peoples questions to the best of my knowledge.
Why did you not return my email? I am trying to clear my name and I believe you were one that would be able to assist me with this. I have always been a straight shooter in regards to the negotiations.
Crice
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Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:45:00 -
[6]
I did recieve your evemail last night when I logged in around 2 am my time. Just becasue of my overall physical condition and my state of mind I felt it better to do that when I return from work later this evening. I have spoken with both Biomass and Huff in regards to your situation of which I am sure you have gotten copies of the log. I will help you in anyway I possibly can, as you were very respectful and part of the reason I did get to meet and talk with some of the FE guys. I will be sending you a response or if you need I can do what I can from here to help you with your issue.
http://www.ronacorp.com |
Sally
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:46:00 -
[7]
Robeyone can you unite all your RONA/KIA/whatever corpse please? We need targets.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:52:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Robeyone on 12/01/2004 19:53:06
Sally RONA-KIA is already available for that. Each of the corps were seperated prior to any of this for hangar and wallet reasons. The org is easier this way and when you get to 267 peope, alts and everything, organization is key. So in short no. You can shoot at RONA-KIA.
http://www.ronacorp.com |
Extravagant
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:53:00 -
[9]
..or you could take this up in a PM and leave the other 39.999 uninterested players out of this.
----------------------
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:53:00 -
[10]
1. What is the identity of the person who compromised the trust at the old forum and passed internal Jericho logs to Krullz of CDI to publish.
2. What is the identity of the source that told The Preacher that Jericho was defecting to the Foresaken Empire.
3. Were you aware of the CDI proposal to eject "carebear" corporations from the NVA and return the organisation to a reduced "founder counil" back in december?
4. On the Foresaken Empire teamspeak proposal (did it contain a specific demand that JF should be ousted from the NVA prior to merger of alliances).
5. Was Halseth Durn in favour of the proposal? Did he argue for it.
6. Do you consider that supporting the FE merger was a betrayal of the declaration of NVA principles and later Charter of government, both documents signed by you?
7. Do you believe that "adaption and evolution" are concepts that excuse breaking your given word.
8. Was there a "unamimous" vote to eject JF from the NVA.
9. Was there any sort of vote to eject JF from the NVA.
10. Were the NVA charter rules followed in this process?
11. Was the NVA council voting forum used in this process?
12. Was this a simple politic coup to remove a single unwanted member of the alliance?
13. Given that word and trust has been broken here. Why should anyone believe that Rona Corp would not break its word again in similar circumstances if it was in your corporations interest to do it?
14. Do you personally blame me for the NVA failure to win the war vs Foresaken Empire.
15. Do you believe that "forum stirring" and propaganda work was the primary cause of the NVA's inability to win fleet battles?
16. Do you believe that if I had left the alliance entirely in Dec (rather than simply resigning) that FE would have left NVA alone?
17. Do you believe that the NVA was "protecting" JF?
18. Do you believe that the NVA has maitained a workable defence policy since the charter was established?
19. Do you believe rich NVA corps should help fund the defense effort to defend their mining interets?
20. Do you believe poor NVA corps should be mandated to fight to defend those mining interests without financial support.
21. Do you believe that CDI are right to charge a 50% tax on mining using their bookmarks.
22. Do you believe I was right to share trading information with no surcharge to my fellow NVA CEO's?
23. Do you believe the NVA lacked effective government and common economic objectives?
24. Do you believe I (or anyone else of JF) has misrepresented or lied about any aspect of this situation thus far expressed?
24B (if so which aspects)
25. Do you believe Halseth Durn was right to lauch a poisonous attack on my morality and ethics in this amusingly named "truth" thread.
26. Do you believe the NVA should have dealt more respectfully with this situation and asked Jericho privately to withdraw rather than making this a public slanging match?
27. Do you believe JF has contributed to the war effort with ships and pilots and funding?
28. Do you believe JF has ever been involved in betraying NVA principles, or charter?
29. Do you believe JF has ever been fallen bellow the contributary level of the majority of NVA corps in the roster?
30. At the last, do you believe that this entire matter is about personality and the fact that several key NVA directors and officers simpy decided they don't like Jade Constantine and wanted me out?
(I reserve the right to add a couple more follow up questions once more in this thread pending your responses)
And thank you for having the courage to do this Robeyone.
JF Public Forum |
KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:55:00 -
[11]
---
Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:58:00 -
[12]
Well you did ask!
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:59:00 -
[13]
yeah but still
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.01.12 20:01:00 -
[14]
Geez Louise
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Archain
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Posted - 2004.01.12 20:02:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Archain on 12/01/2004 20:03:50
Ouch, Robeyone....I feel that this may be one that you'll have a hard time holding against. I'm totally ignorant when it comes to all of this, so it should be a great read...leading to a thread that will eventually get locked.
I won't be able to keep my eyes off of this one though, should be a great read. 
Space Invaders Movie Library - [SPVD]
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Mongo Peck
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Posted - 2004.01.12 20:08:00 -
[16]
Mongo < starts to read "War and Peace" ..
Mongo speaks !!
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Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.12 20:10:00 -
[17]
1. What is the identity of the person who compromised the trust at the old forum and passed internal Jericho logs to Krullz of CDI to publish.
My Answer:
Honeslty Jade I have no idea and I can definitly see where this is a concern. Spies were a major issue and getting information like that leaked was a problem. If I can get an answer I will.
2. What is the identity of the source that told The Preacher that Jericho was defecting to the Foresaken Empire.
My Answer:
That is something I also have no knowledge about. Nor did this actually ever reach my ears.
3. Were you aware of the CDI proposal to eject "carebear" corporations from the NVA and return the organisation to a reduced "founder counil" back in december?
My Answer:
Yes I was aware of the proposal to kick carebear corporations from the NVA. But only after the proposal had been made. I was approached by Halseth because he was supposedly on the chopping block. Which I then began to run a campaign to see where this information was coming from. I did not know the source of the conversation and I came in at the point where I wanted to work out talks with Jehrico and CDI and CDI and Oberon both of which were having issues with each other. RONA was against the premise at the time becasue even we could have been considered carebear just because of our lack of PVP players. I did not every confirm who it was who pushed the idea though I did hear that it was CDI. I never followed that through as the issue was eventually dropped.
4. On the Foresaken Empire teamspeak proposal (did it contain a specific demand that JF should be ousted from the NVA prior to merger of alliances).
My Answer:
Yes it was specifically stated that Jehrico Faction could not join the FE. And no there was no prior demand that Jehrico be ousted by the NVA prior to the merger.
5. Was Halseth Durn in favour of the proposal? Did he argue for it.
My Answer:
Halseth was put in a difficult place because everytime I went to Halseth RONA was in a different place in the decision making process. Halseth was for the proposal and in fact posted it on the forums. The very next day I talked with him and told him about offers to join another alliance and possibly creating our own alliance. He promptly said he had to publicly take the foot from his mouth and was in support of his allies. Then again the whole decision process in a new place a couple of hours later. Oberon was always sticking by the side of her allies and Halseth made that very apparent to us.
6. Do you consider that supporting the FE merger was a betrayal of the declaration of NVA principles and later Charter of government, both documents signed by you?
Yes of course I would. We were an anti-pirate alliance and joining the FE would have been in blatent disregard for that charter. There are if ands or buts about it.
7. Do you believe that "adaption and evolution" are concepts that excuse breaking your given word.
My Answer:
At the time I never even though of it that way. RONA was trying to look at the bigger picture when making a decision about what it was going to do as a corporation. And this was of course with the input of other allies within the organization including my breif talks with you. I think there were a lot of problems with the NVA and our intention was to take as many of the NVA with us so there wouldn't be that issue. But in the end people got hurt and people were overlooked. I apologize for that.
8. Was there a "unamimous" vote to eject JF from the NVA.
Yes of the corporations that were in the conversation and later in a fleet engagment there was indeed a vote that was asked to confirm that Jehrico was not to be part of the new alliance. This was on TS though not in a formal NVA voting style.
9. Was there any sort of vote to eject JF from the NVA.
No
10. Were the NVA charter rules followed in this process?
N/A
11. Was the NVA council voting forum used in this process?
N/A
http://www.ronacorp.com |
Halseth Durn
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Posted - 2004.01.12 20:27:00 -
[18]
I wouild like to straighten out a few facts that have been gloosed over here.
The proposed deal was never for the NVA to join the FE. It would have been a merger. A new and unique alliance.
The FE representatives PROFESSED that they wanted to drop the piracy persona they play in game and form a new and proffesional alliance. So please, lets drop the "Oberon wanted to join the pirate alliance" or become "nuetral to pirates".
These are all facts.
As for Crice and his supporters,
He risked his neck to try and assemble a powerfull, alliance in the north. I commend him on his vision. In all of the talks we had with him and the other representatives, he was honest (I think) and ALWAYS had the interests of the FE in mind. Calling him a traitor to the FE is a great mistake.
Oberon-Inc FEAR MY EMOTICONS |
DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.01.12 20:32:00 -
[19]
Halseth:
please, SHH!
Let Rob answer without turning this into a flamewar. There are plenty of other threads like that.
If you wish to have similar questions thrown at you then start a new topic.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 20:32:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 12/01/2004 20:33:49
Amazing, we agree on something. I also believe Crice was entirely honest in his ambition to make the FE NVA merger work and build an economic superpower in the north.
Though I opposed the concept both ideologically and pragmatically (since JF was to be sold down the river to make it happen) I can understand (and indeed applaud) the breadth of vision Crice was selling.
(edit ... agree with dBP, please go and start another topic halseth, i would love you to answer these questions)
JF Public Forum |
Ubix
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Posted - 2004.01.12 20:45:00 -
[21]
Quote:
The FE representatives PROFESSED that they wanted to drop the piracy persona they play in game and form a new and proffesional alliance. So please, lets drop the "Oberon wanted to join the pirate alliance" or become "nuetral to pirates".
I find this so amusing .. to think of Smoked on his M3G4 death bed .. spouting words of reformation and corporate change only to have it hurled back in his face. And now .. we are to believe that the very people who tossed his ideals in to the abyss are now walking in his footsteps.
*puts hands together and looks to the sky*
Oh - the sweet sweet irony.
UBIX
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Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.12 20:55:00 -
[22]
12. Was this a simple politic coup to remove a single unwanted member of the alliance?
My Answer:
Actually no it wasn't we felt that there were way to many bureaucratic problems with the way the NVA was working. We also felt that there was a closer group and organization forming because of this proposal from the FE. We looked at it as an oppurtunity to change things quickly and fix things we saw wrong with the NVA.
13. Given that word and trust has been broken here. Why should anyone believe that Rona Corp would not break its word again in similar circumstances if it was in your corporations interest to do it?
My Answer:
Becasue the process in which we formed this alliance with the corps involved was actually built on a really good foundation. I now know from voice and conversation the CEO's from most of the corps in this new alliance. There is constant communication adn the corporations were all part of the decision making process up to the point where the fight began again for Venal. Respect is being earned through working together something that didn't exist before to a great degree. We are becoming Friends and that is where the difference is. The FE know as well that we abide by what we say. Hell the whole reason we said no in the end was becasue of something I said to my corp and my word held true even in the times where I felt it may have been the right decision. In the end though I guess time will tell.
14. Do you personally blame me for the NVA failure to win the war vs Foresaken Empire.
My Answer:
No Jade I do not. Nor will I. I have discussed this with you before. I actually do respect you but because of your position on the boards you are a very big target. There were many things wrong with the NVA things we are tyring to correct in this new alliance.
15. Do you believe that "forum stirring" and propaganda work was the primary cause of the NVA's inability to win fleet battles?
My Answer:
No I don't. I actually think it was more because nobody really felt tied to this alliance. Something we are working on rectifying. When your friends are in trouble you run to help them or do what you can for them. The NVA did give us friends but very rarely on a corporation level. We are changing that by putting processes in place that give whole corporations the oppurtunity to interact with each other.
16. Do you believe that if I had left the alliance entirely in Dec (rather than simply resigning) that FE would have left NVA alone?
My Answer:
No I don't. The FE want people to fight and we are right next door. This war would have continued with or without you.
17. Do you believe that the NVA was "protecting" JF?
My Answer:
Yes I do thinkt the NVA was protecting JF but not just JF alone. We were protecting Venal and Castor changed a lot of that. In fact Castor has a lot to do with why this new alliance is forming as well.
18. Do you believe that the NVA has maitained a workable defence policy since the charter was established?
My Answer:
No I don't think there was good workable defense solution that is something that is already on the table for this new alliance. This seriously detracted from the effectivness of our organization and Venal defense.
19. Do you believe rich NVA corps should help fund the defense effort to defend their mining interets?
My Answer:
Of course I do. And when you asked publicly for isk to go towards hiring mercs I gave twice what others did to show that our part should be a larger portion. RONA's total contribution to this war was about 15 Billion ISK with ships, Minerals, and ISK. We have lost and gained a lot but we did do our part towards the defense.
20. Do you believe poor NVA corps should be mandated to fight to defend those mining interests without financial support.
My Answer:
This is actually a tough question. And this is my view. I think that people in an alliance should be an effective part of that alliance and I think everyone should provide for the protection of that particular area. Even if it is one cruiser or a Frigate if they are there and giving what little they can then it is the same as the Megacorps giving Billions and Billions of ISK. You just want to see contribution that is very very important.
21. Do you believe that CDI are right to charge a 50% tax on mining using their bookmarks.
My Answer:
I read this in the log and there is a bit of confusion. CDI and RONA mined together we felt that with CDI contributing to the mine and the use of their bookmarks that a 50 50 split was fair. They were willing to help us find bookmarks of our own and even give us a couple to get started. There was never any tax for using them.
22. Do you believe I was right to share trading information with no surcharge to my fellow NVA CEO's?
My Answer:
If this is referring to the Trade Runs I think this should have been done a whole lot earlier. I didn't even know that these e
http://www.ronacorp.com |
Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.12 21:20:00 -
[23]
22. Do you believe I was right to share trading information with no surcharge to my fellow NVA CEO's?
My Answer:
If this is referring to the Trade Runs I think this should have been done a whole lot earlier. I didn't even know that these existed until right before Castor was released and I even talked to you about what BP's and Assets you guys had and how your guys were making you ISK. Then agian the way the NVA was running I don't find this all to disturbing becasue the organization as a whole had a corp centric mentality.
23. Do you believe the NVA lacked effective government and common economic objectives?
My Answer:
Yes I do. The NVA had no true aims. There was no one pushing for thigns to get done and decisions were made but no follow through. Nobody knew what the NVA was about in the end other then killing the FE.
24. Do you believe I (or anyone else of JF) has misrepresented or lied about any aspect of this situation thus far expressed?
My Answer:
I think the only thing that is misrepresented is the use of Halseth's name instead of the NVA.
24B (if so which aspects)
My Answer:
Halseth, KIAHicks, and Bobby Wilson were all very influentual members of the NVA. Oberon was a big part of the politics and he took on the PR aspect when you left the picture. In the end I think he was just making statements backed by the corporations in the NVA. And I think his name was misused more than once in decisions made by the council and the NVA not just Halseth. Halseth was also not the only one to call the cease fire every corporation in the TS conversation agreed to it.
25. Do you believe Halseth Durn was right to lauch a poisonous attack on my morality and ethics in this amusingly named "truth" thread.
My Answer:
I think this has been read wrong. I think that Halseth and you have some real issues to work out and I feel that Halseth thinks himself and Oberon have a big target on their backs. I think you both have things that are incorrect and this is only going to get worse if neither one of you take the resolve to get the issue fixed.
26. Do you believe the NVA should have dealt more respectfully with this situation and asked Jericho privately to withdraw rather than making this a public slanging match?
My Answer:
As far as I know JF was told privatly and the first post about it was in fact made by you here
a full 6 hours before any public statement was made by the new alliance. Athule and 2 other members of JF were told in Private before we stated anything.
27. Do you believe JF has contributed to the war effort with ships and pilots and funding?
My Answer:
To answer this honestly I don't know Jade. I really had no idea who has contributed what. So I can't answer this question honestly.
28. Do you believe JF has ever been involved in betraying NVA principles, or charter?
My Answer:
Publicly and in my eye. No I do not. As far as what happens behind the doors of JF HQ I have no idea. As it should be.
29. Do you believe JF has ever been fallen bellow the contributary level of the majority of NVA corps in the roster?
My Answer:
That again is something I can only comment about RONA's contiribution. I don't really know any infomation about that.
30. At the last, do you believe that this entire matter is about personality and the fact that several key NVA directors and officers simpy decided they don't like Jade Constantine and wanted me out?
My Answer:
No I honestly don't believe that. I think the answer to this question has already been stated above. I think you made some enemies here in the NVA and that resulted in not bringing you over to the new alliance. Not just corp directors but in some cases whole corporations.
http://www.ronacorp.com |
Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.12 21:21:00 -
[24]
Whew that took a while and that was a lot of questions. I hope these helped and I of course respect your decision to ask further questions. 
http://www.ronacorp.com |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.12 21:26:00 -
[25]
I'll ask some more later on Robeyone, there are a few more clarifications and bits and pieces.
In the main though, thank you very much for having the courage to do this, and the honesty for doing this in public.
JF Public Forum |
Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.12 21:29:00 -
[26]
Jade I appreaciate you comment and I look forward to clearing things up. I do hope that this does help with the situation publicly.
http://www.ronacorp.com |
Lord ofRedemption
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Posted - 2004.01.12 21:32:00 -
[27]
_____________
Retirement closing in .
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Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.12 21:39:00 -
[28]
Thanks for the support Tank  I will have to talk with Krullz about you.
http://www.ronacorp.com |
crice
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Posted - 2004.01.12 21:50:00 -
[29]
Quote:
I wouild like to straighten out a few facts that have been gloosed over here.
The proposed deal was never for the NVA to join the FE. It would have been a merger. A new and unique alliance.
The FE representatives PROFESSED that they wanted to drop the piracy persona they play in game and form a new and proffesional alliance. So please, lets drop the "Oberon wanted to join the pirate alliance" or become "nuetral to pirates".
These are all facts.
As for Crice and his supporters,
He risked his neck to try and assemble a powerfull, alliance in the north. I commend him on his vision. In all of the talks we had with him and the other representatives, he was honest (I think) and ALWAYS had the interests of the FE in mind. Calling him a traitor to the FE is a great mistake.
Thank you Halseth, that is exactly how I felt. I assumed control over this negotiation process leaving me open to others that would question me. I made the assumption that I had the authority to make decisions on behalf of the FE, I believe this was a mistake after receiving some very nasty emails from Numberone, about power and control.
I saw a vision, a Greater Alliance. I was immune to the bitterness and hate that had brewed between the two alliances. I was never involved with the TTI wars.
As you know we spent several nights speaking about the alliance, one night we were up till downtime. Our alliance was anxious for an answer and waiting just was not an option. As you know you used the peace talks to mine Bistot, which would not have been possible without the FE pulling from Venal. Eh I would have done the same. This is my opinion and is in no relation to how the FE feels.
I am just an outsider now looking in.
Crice
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Lord ofRedemption
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Posted - 2004.01.12 22:48:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Thanks for the support Tank I will have to talk with Krullz about you.
Your just mean now 
_____________
Retirement closing in .
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Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
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Posted - 2004.01.13 00:15:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Edited by: Archain on 12/01/2004 20:03:50
Ouch, Robeyone....I feel that this may be one that you'll have a hard time holding against. I'm totally ignorant when it comes to all of this, so it should be a great read...leading to a thread that will eventually get locked.
I won't be able to keep my eyes off of this one though, should be a great read.
Archain - as usual since the Haiku thread, you make me laugh man!
I am curious too. That's a good laundry list of questions from my "Madame Extraordinaire De Surveillant"
Posting for Numbnutz |
olyyy
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 00:48:00 -
[32]
Edited by: olyyy on 13/01/2004 01:03:03
Quote:
21. Do you believe that CDI are right to charge a 50% tax on mining using their bookmarks.
sounds like mining in bugged belts ... Isn't it an exploit to mine in a belt with grid bug ? 
(oh and btw, I'm not mining in bugged belts, some rkk members know how to do now, didn't cost them anything)
Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 ) |
Brom
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Posted - 2004.01.13 01:37:00 -
[33]
I gained a whole heaping load of respect for Crice during this debacle. He handled himself as a true gentleman.
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Azure Skyclad
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Posted - 2004.01.13 01:45:00 -
[34]
This is the other side of the the game called "Eve" they should highlight more in the advertising.
EvE boring?
Climb out of your pod every once in a while. It's a big old galaxy out there.
La Maison de tous Les Plaisirs
Star Fraction
http://www.voodoorockers.co.uk/ |
Havocide
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Posted - 2004.01.13 01:46:00 -
[35]
o dear god cant you carebears just jump into indys and shoot each other with your 150mm railguns until theres only one man left? 
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.01.13 02:01:00 -
[36]
And there's the first idiot post trying to start a flame war on what has so far been a very refreshing political post.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.13 02:16:00 -
[37]
Some more questions Robeyone.
31. Do you believe that inter-corporate spying and disinformation should be allowed or disallowed between alliance partners? Will you be supporting a no-espionage rule between corporations in the TinA entity, and given that OCC and CDI have both gone on record as supporting this kind of spying, how forcefully would you be prepared to make the case.
32. Re the breaking of a given word. Do you accept that Rona has behaved falsely in relations to Jericho Fraction in being party to an unconstitutional kicking of my corporation from the NVA? (ie. we both signed a charter which enshrined a political process that you ignored in removing Jericho)
33. Re the ōunanimous voteö to remove Jericho instantly. Can you please list the corporations that supported the idea and where on hand for the limited vote?
34. Can you explain how the FE proposal led you to believe that ōthat there was a closer group and organization formingö (within the NVA)?
35. Re the question about you being prepared to break your word a second time, would you accept that if any of the new TinA corps should slip from the position of ōWe are becoming Friends and that is where the difference is.ö You would once again be prepared to abandon your promises and revoke this new agreement as easily as the first?
36. About the NVA protecting JF, how exactly did this protection manifest?
37. On the CDI 50% I have a chatlog of the conversation in question and it is clear that we are being asked to pay 50% of mineral take for the favour of using the BM. So I ask again, in the context of everyone pitching in and helping out. And your statement ōYou just want to see contribution that is very very important.ö Does this kind of profiteering help or hinder the cooperation your consider ideal?
38. On the trade-runs, the intel was shared quite some time before castor. And I made quite an effort to interest NVA CEOĘs in the prospect. Artegg vetoed Rona interest on the grounds that the cost and risks were too great. But I rephrase my question, since JF offered this intelligence and income stream for free to the NVA. Why then is it fair and reasonable for CDI to attempt to make a 50% profit on provision of a similar income stream.
39. On the use of the Halseth name, I take you point. But would you agree he has been the most notable and significant public advocate of these changes. (Having drafted the pro FE council doc, announced the ceasefire, announced the kicking of Jericho, and announced the formation of the TinA entity?
40. With respect to my question ōDo you believe the NVA should have dealt more respectfully with this situation and asked Jericho privately to withdraw rather than making this a public slanging match?ö Please note the word ōaskö ą as opposed to ōtellö. Since you had no council remit for the ejection of JF, do you not believe it would have been more diplomatically expedient (not to say polite) to ask us to withdraw, rather than telling us?
41. At the last and with respect to your answer about the matter of personality. Many TinA aligned individuals have come to these forums and expressed the contrary opinion that it is basically about personality. Neither I nor Jericho are accused of any substantive failure in our commitment to the NVA, yet individuals have chosen to hurl abuse and invective and imprecations. With that mind, would you not admit that this is basically a case of scape-goating an individual for the failings of an alliance?
JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 02:18:00 -
[38]
Those are the last questions Robeyone, since there must be an end to this. ItĘs in nobodyĘs interest to continue this forever.
From our perspective what is done is done, and though the manner of these deeds have not impressed us at all, the basic thrust of the Jericho Fraction ejection from the Venal region is nothing that we havenĘt anticipated and prepared for a while now.
You can tell Halseth that though I am not impressed by him, such thoughts are a far cry from a ragnar-esq blood feud. To be brutally honest Halseth isnĘt tall enough for a Ragnar. So he neednĘt worry about me buying him a magic hat.
Seriously though,
Your faction could have achieved the results you desired by negotiation and respectful interaction with Jericho. You know me Robeyone, and you know I wouldnĘt say that if it wasnĘt entirely true.
Supporters of your interests have done you no good with this forum battle, since we (JF) have told no lies here, and the truth of what happened is clear and self evident for all to see.
I will debate to protect my name and reputation of my corporation till doomsday in the face of slur and smear.
But accept and admit that we played a historic role in the founding of democracy in Venal and met every obligation as a charter member of the NVA, and that mere political difference is all that has led to this separation of interests, then, Robeyone, we truly have no cause for continued dispute.
JF Public Forum |
Toulak
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 02:31:00 -
[39]
Quote:
o dear god cant you carebears just jump into indys and shoot each other with your 150mm railguns until theres only one man left?
And the point of that post was?
Grow up Havoc, if its not too difficult for you.
|
Robeyone
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 03:06:00 -
[40]
38. On the trade-runs, the intel was shared quite some time before castor. And I made quite an effort to interest NVA CEOĘs in the prospect. Artegg vetoed Rona interest on the grounds that the cost and risks were too great. But I rephrase my question, since JF offered this intelligence and income stream for free to the NVA. Why then is it fair and reasonable for CDI to attempt to make a 50% profit on provision of a similar income stream.
My Answer:
I apologize and was never aware of the information that early on. And I take your word to be true. As far as the CDI deal as stated above I was talking abut between CDI and RONA. I do not know about the conversation between CDI and Jehrico.
39. On the use of the Halseth name, I take you point. But would you agree he has been the most notable and significant public advocate of these changes. (Having drafted the pro FE council doc, announced the ceasefire, announced the kicking of Jericho, and announced the formation of the TinA entity?
My Answer:
I agree with your point about being public about Oberon's decision. But he was under my orders to do the public announcment for the new alliance and my orders as well to talk with Jehrico about not being accepted into the new alliance. So once again Halseth as a victim of circumstance in the last two cases. Something I should have thought about prior to asking him to do it. Halseth I apologize for that.
40. With respect to my question ōDo you believe the NVA should have dealt more respectfully with this situation and asked Jericho privately to withdraw rather than making this a public slanging match?ö Please note the word ōaskö ą as opposed to ōtellö. Since you had no council remit for the ejection of JF, do you not believe it would have been more diplomatically expedient (not to say polite) to ask us to withdraw, rather than telling us?
My Answer:
I never thought of it from that angle. I guess I would agree with in terms of the NVA. I think it would have been more diplomatic for us to tell you that you were not allowed in the new alliance sense all the corporations had by accepting this new alliance withdrew from the NVA.
41. At the last and with respect to your answer about the matter of personality. Many TinA aligned individuals have come to these forums and expressed the contrary opinion that it is basically about personality. Neither I nor Jericho are accused of any substantive failure in our commitment to the NVA, yet individuals have chosen to hurl abuse and invective and imprecations. With that mind, would you not admit that this is basically a case of scape-goating an individual for the failings of an alliance?
My Answer:
The recent posts I have seen on the forums don't seem to be directed at you as the reason for failure. The seem to be directed at your methods in sharing opinions and communicating. Not to say that you haven't been blamed. Truthfully though it doesn't seem to be a majority, I think the constant military defeats have been the primary reason for the NVA's defeat.
http://www.ronacorp.com |
Robeyone
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 03:06:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Robeyone on 13/01/2004 03:07:47
31. Do you believe that inter-corporate spying and disinformation should be allowed or disallowed between alliance partners? Will you be supporting a no-espionage rule between corporations in the TinA entity, and given that OCC and CDI have both gone on record as supporting this kind of spying, how forcefully would you be prepared to make the case.
My Answer:
Honestly I think this actually had very little effect on the lack of partnerships in this alliance. This alliance was compromised of stangers who had very few of the same goals in mine. We were never forced to speak with each other and that meant no communciation. Do I think it helped? Yes. Not to any great degree though.
32. Re the breaking of a given word. Do you accept that Rona has behaved falsely in relations to Jericho Fraction in being party to an unconstitutional kicking of my corporation from the NVA? (ie. we both signed a charter which enshrined a political process that you ignored in removing Jericho)
My Answer:
Jade I don't think I was dishonest with you. I never had any intention in hiding any of these things from you, but yes I was one of the party who in the end accepted the agreement that you should not be party to our alliance. In the end the constitution didn't matter like the past alliances such as the SPC the NVA was ended by the corporations who began her. We withdrew from the alliance and formed a new one. When we withdrew it no longer pretained to those corporations. We just did it all in a very short period of time.
33. Re the ōunanimous voteö to remove Jericho instantly. Can you please list the corporations that supported the idea and where on hand for the limited vote?
My Answer:
I can get that information yes but I do not know it with the information I had. But RONA, Oberon, CDI, Bladerunners, QI, OCC, and GODS I do know for a fact were present.
34. Can you explain how the FE proposal led you to believe that ōthat there was a closer group and organization formingö (within the NVA)?
My Answer:
Because for the first time all the corporations really began to talk to each other and really drill in on what it was they wanted out of Venal. Like I stated before this was the single most important thing that could have happened. Once we were in agreement with our moral limits and what we decided we looked at the NVA and decided that it was in no position to continue. The corps talked and discussed and figured out so much in such a short period of time. I am hoping the new corporations like Celestial are going to join us in that organization so we can continue to build those companionships with our fellow alliance corporations.
35. Re the question about you being prepared to break your word a second time, would you accept that if any of the new TinA corps should slip from the position of ōWe are becoming Friends and that is where the difference is.ö You would once again be prepared to abandon your promises and revoke this new agreement as easily as the first?
My Answer:
I don't really understand this question but I will give it a go. If we looked at the whole thing technically we never broke our word. We were looking at options outside of the NVA. The FE and NVA were looking into a possible new organziation consisting of corporations from both entities. When that would have happened the corporations would have left the NVA for this new organization. In doing so we would have had no obligation to the charter becasue we are no longer entities withing the NVA. Our word was to stick with the NVA but in the end it wasn't worth it. Like so many other corps we made a decision to move on and leave the NVA and join this new entity. Along with most of the corporations from the NVA. Cemantics I know but it is the same as leaving one company and working for another. We left the alliance that is the end of it.
36. About the NVA protecting JF, how exactly did this protection manifest?
My Answer:
RONA was a part of every single major engagement concerning the NVA up until the time of castor. Where we began operations in Pure Blind still in the protection of Venal. As JF was a member of the NVA we were protecting the "Alliance" JF was included in that.
37. On the CDI 50% I have a chatlog of the conversation in question and it is clear that we are being asked to pay 50% of mineral take for the favour of using the BM. So I ask again, in the context of everyone pitching in and helping out. And your statement ōYou just want to see contribution that is very very important.ö Does this kind of profiteering help or hinder the cooperation your consider ideal?
My Answer:
Then we are looking at two very different issues. RONA made an Agreement with CDI tha tif both corporations mined and if CDI provided the bookmarks we would spit the ore 50/50. I do not know of the conversation between CDI and Jehrico I apologize for the confusion.
http://www.ronacorp.com |
olyyy
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 03:18:00 -
[42]
Edited by: olyyy on 13/01/2004 03:19:39
found back something funny
Quote:
This is what has led us to this point, the NVA is a strong regional power and is growing stronger, with the likes of Rona, Cyberdyne, and Oberon, and with the leadership qualities of Jericho Faction and the unshakeable spirit of KIA Corp along with the myriad of other corps bringing their own special qualities, we have a varied and well working bunch who I think would be willing to die (in game!!) to keep our alliance going. I hope this entertains some, informs others, and bring back a few memories of times past, but we have to look towards the future.
(KIAPieman)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=49955
things are changing so fast
Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 ) |
Stoop
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 03:40:00 -
[43]
I do not understand the big stink about the 50% cut to CDI. You dont like the offer? Go find your own.
All you have to know how to do is use a map. User a scanner. Use your brain.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 03:45:00 -
[44]
Simple stoopy, the reason non mining corps were expected to muster to venal was to protect the mining corps. fair exchange was for the mining corps to help the non-mining corps fund ship replacements to enable them to function in theatre. we weren't asking for handouts, we were asking for bp locs (economic information if you like).
In fair exchange for our combat support, and for the trade information we had given free of charge to these corps at an earlier date.
The practise of being charged to mine these locs undermined the principle of offering our combat services for free.
If we were being charged to mine,
We should we not charge to fight?
Answer that question if you can.
JF Public Forum |
Halseth Durn
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 03:54:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Halseth Durn on 13/01/2004 03:56:04
Quote:
You can tell Halseth that though I am not impressed by him, such thoughts are a far cry from a ragnar-esq blood feud. To be brutally honest Halseth isnĘt tall enough for a Ragnar. So he neednĘt worry about me buying him a magic hat. -Jade Constantine
Can I at least have a magical set of earmuffs?
Enchanted scarf?
My own fanta shokata spoof?
I think I've figured it out, Jade. You are in love with me. From the moment I threw the SPCs support behind the fledgling NVA, you have dreamed of being swept off of your feet by your "Amarrian Master".
Quote:
I agree with your point about being public about Oberon's decision. But he was under my orders to do the public announcment for the new alliance and my orders as well to talk with Jehrico about not being accepted into the new alliance. So once again Halseth as a victim of circumstance in the last two cases. Something I should have thought about prior to asking him to do it. Halseth I apologize for that. -Robeyone
No sweat, bubba. You are a good leader that recognizes peoples strong points. Besides, I was just about to offer both times! However, Jades lies and attacks on myself and Oberon started the moment I posted Oberons intentions on our council forums. This was long before those two incedents occured. Sighting them as the reason for our hostilities is incorrect. My beef with her are the lies about myself and Oberon she spread designed solely to discredit my viewpoint. A viewpoint she knew if ever realized would mean the end of Jade and the NVA.
|
Slagg
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 03:57:00 -
[46]
Oberon can't PvP, the whole mud knows this. That's why they 'accepted' an offer they coulden't refuse.
|
Halseth Durn
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 04:07:00 -
[47]
I'll fight you and your friend "mud" any day.
Oberon-Inc FEAR MY EMOTICONS |
Beryllium Dragon
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 04:11:00 -
[48]
Slagg, comeon, I'm sure Oberion can PvP...
In, quake, with aimbots, while hidding in stations.
XXXII
There was the Door to which I found no Key;
There was the Veil through which I might not see:
Some little talk awhile of Me and Thee
There was--and then no more of Thee and Me.
~Omar Khayyam, The Rubaiyat |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 04:12:00 -
[49]
Halseth, I'm afraid you don't come in here swinging the crap bat without reviewing the facts.
Quote:
24. Do you believe I (or anyone else of JF) has misrepresented or lied about any aspect of this situation thus far expressed?
My Answer:
I think the only thing that is misrepresented is the use of Halseth's name instead of the NVA.
By which Robeyone has accepted that I and Jericho have told the substantive truth throughout this fiasco. Where I have used your name Halseth it is because you placed yourself in the position of front man.
Quote:
However, Jades lies and attacks on myself and Oberon started the moment I posted Oberons intentions on our council forums. This was long before those two incedents occured.
Well your respected leader Robeyone sees no "lies". What exactly are you talking about Halseth? It sounds like you are just inventing more smears. Lets face it, the only lies we have seen today have been from Artegg's chat log.
Quote:
Sighting them as the reason for our hostilities is incorrect.
Charitably I will assume you mean citing. Yet ironically you have brought nothing to the table as citation; merely hot air and pompous bluster.
Quote:
My beef with her are the lies about myself and Oberon she spread designed solely to discredit my viewpoint. A viewpoint she knew if ever realized would mean the end of Jade and the NVA.
What lies?
And remember, your viewpoint is on record.
As is the fact that you conspired with a former enemy of the NVA to oust an allied corporation in Teamspeak discussions. Then when giving me a briefing on what occured, you neglected to tell me of these terms.
Hardly playing the good ally Halseth.
Leaving out the fact that you then authored a article for Eve Guardian expressing your favour for the move that would ... (to paraphrase your own words) "shaft us royally".
You should quit trying to look like the innocent party here Halseth.
Only your own clique believes it.
And Robeyone has the wit to understand that you are now embarrassing yourself.
As a favour to him I give you the opportunity to run away home and safe yourself further pain.
But, if you want to "bring it" to the forums.
Be my guest.
JF Public Forum |
Stoop
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 04:27:00 -
[50]
OKay so let me get this straight... You think that the people mining in venal are only mining and doing nothing else. ANd the other corps (jericho faction???) were expected to go protect it? Um Muad Dib is the only person from Jericho that I have ever seen in Venal proper in a fighting ship.
Secondly, I see Kia-Rona, Rona, Blade Runners, Gods, CDI, Oberon etc mining there. KIA and Blade runners are the most two actively PvP corps in the alliance. Jericho is dead last on the list. What exactly are you talking about?
(And trade information? Never recieved any of that). ANd I would actually like to see some Ayes from people that did recieve this godsend.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 04:32:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 13/01/2004 04:33:55
I suggest you read the other thread where I have already ripped Artegg's opinions to pieces on this subject Stoop.
And then when you finish come back and this one again because you sure as hell aren't getting the message.
And as for trade knowledge, don't play dum(er) I asked the whole damn NVA to get on board for common PB defense and trade running.
The response?
"Nah, we are too busy mining".
JF Public Forum |
Alex Cray
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 04:38:00 -
[52]
Jade,
When I lose, I bow with a smile. All these arguments are pretty much useless. No amount of external data can change what happened.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 04:41:00 -
[53]
Yes m'dear, which is why I have offered to Robeyone the opportunity to draw a line under this.
What I will never do, is allow the corps involved with the NVA to slander Jericho Fraction and myself without response.
This will finish when the smearing-attempts do.
JF Public Forum |
Stoop
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 05:07:00 -
[54]
Sorry but I just cant read 4 page responses over and over. I guess Ill just have to be in the dark forever.
One thing I have learned: Jade is infaliable.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 05:30:00 -
[55]
No stoop, I just don't like letting people get away with unsubstantiated smear.
JF Public Forum |
Wren
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 07:09:00 -
[56]
I go to sleep for 8 hours and watch some tv and this happens. Its gone to far to read it all. I will have to pick up the digested version later, unless one of you kind folk could sum it up in a couple of paragraphs. I hate to be uninformed, but I can't read that much while I am at work, and let's face it, I doubt I will read it all when I get home.
Blargh.
--------------------------------------------------
|
Halseth Durn
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 08:27:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Halseth, I'm afraid you don't come in here swinging the crap bat without reviewing the facts.
Quote:
24. Do you believe I (or anyone else of JF) has misrepresented or lied about any aspect of this situation thus far expressed?
My Answer:
I think the only thing that is misrepresented is the use of Halseth's name instead of the NVA.
By which Robeyone has accepted that I and Jericho have told the substantive truth throughout this fiasco. Where I have used your name Halseth it is because you placed yourself in the position of front man.
Quote:
However, Jades lies and attacks on myself and Oberon started the moment I posted Oberons intentions on our council forums. This was long before those two incedents occured.
Well your respected leader Robeyone sees no "lies". What exactly are you talking about Halseth? It sounds like you are just inventing more smears. Lets face it, the only lies we have seen today have been from Artegg's chat log.
Quote:
Sighting them as the reason for our hostilities is incorrect.
Charitably I will assume you mean citing. Yet ironically you have brought nothing to the table as citation; merely hot air and pompous bluster.
Quote:
My beef with her are the lies about myself and Oberon she spread designed solely to discredit my viewpoint. A viewpoint she knew if ever realized would mean the end of Jade and the NVA.
What lies?
And remember, your viewpoint is on record.
As is the fact that you conspired with a former enemy of the NVA to oust an allied corporation in Teamspeak discussions. Then when giving me a briefing on what occured, you neglected to tell me of these terms.
Hardly playing the good ally Halseth.
Leaving out the fact that you then authored a article for Eve Guardian expressing your favour for the move that would ... (to paraphrase your own words) "shaft us royally".
You should quit trying to look like the innocent party here Halseth.
Only your own clique believes it.
And Robeyone has the wit to understand that you are now embarrassing yourself.
As a favour to him I give you the opportunity to run away home and safe yourself further pain.
But, if you want to "bring it" to the forums.
Be my guest.
LOL
You are a piece of work M'Dear!
You are so embroiled in twisting everything to fit into your little "dream world" you failed to recognize the above post makes absolutly no sense what-so-ever. You're bonkers. Also, when did you become Robeys spokes person? I'm sure he LOVES you interpreting his words for him.
In another post you stated I have made many mistakes, but never appologized.
I did make one mistake, m'dear. You want to know what that is?
Not pushing you out of the picture up here much sooner.
Good night, love.
P.S. Do I still get the magic earmuffs? |
Lord ofRedemption
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 08:36:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Tankuk on 13/01/2004 09:07:29
_____________
Retirement closing in .
|
Athule Snanm
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 12:36:00 -
[59]
Quote:
I do not understand the big stink about the 50% cut to CDI. You dont like the offer? Go find your own.
All you have to know how to do is use a map. User a scanner. Use your brain.
Quote:
OKay so let me get this straight... You think that the people mining in venal are only mining and doing nothing else. ANd the other corps (jericho faction???) were expected to go protect it? Um Muad Dib is the only person from Jericho that I have ever seen in Venal proper in a fighting ship.
Secondly, I see Kia-Rona, Rona, Blade Runners, Gods, CDI, Oberon etc mining there. KIA and Blade runners are the most two actively PvP corps in the alliance. Jericho is dead last on the list. What exactly are you talking about?
(And trade information? Never recieved any of that). ANd I would actually like to see some Ayes from people that did recieve this godsend.
I'm afraid these two posts really sum up a lot that was wrong with the NVA.
First off, not that long ago at all JF gave CDI information that one of their most trusted directors was about to betray them and clear out their wallet and corp hangars. Even though relations between CDI and JF were at absolute rock bottom and close to open war, JF gave CDI that information. In return CDI continued to protect the identity of someone who had passed on private information from our corp and also came up with the laughable deal that if they gave us information on a place where we could grid-exploit-mine (a loophole that I hope is closed soon in any case). The fact that they existed was known long before CDI told us, and is the (not that great) effort of finding them worth 50% of everything that we might mine there (on our own, we're not talking about joint ops) worth? I think not. I would consider it a grossly insulting offer from an enemy corp, never mind an 'ally'. Whilst I think there was a certain amount of bridge burning going on in that log from Jade, quite how such an offer can be considered a reasonable one I don't understand.
On the second post - funny how you only list the corps right in the north of Venal and not a single mention of any of the Pure Blind corps - many of whom were fighting every day. The use of the word 'proper' is very revealing as it your attitudes. It's interesting that these same corps were the ones that formed TiNA between themselves and that none of the southern corps are listed. My impression (and I was not alone in this) was that your attitude was shared by a number of corps in the north. They can claim that they can only go by what they see, and therein lies the problem.
The people that will be leading TiNA are the exact same people who have been running the NVA for several months now. These are the same people who have supported spying on other corps within the alliance. They are the same people who buried their heads in the sand over differences hoping they'd go away rather than confronting them. They are the same people who couldn't contact any of the southern corps (even though I was in two channels full of them). They are the same people who wanted to close the NVA to any and all new members. I sincerely hope that they are willing to address all these issues rather than blaming everything on other people because if they aren't addressed we'll be seeing yet another honeymoon period for an alliance in Venal followed by another round of disgruntled defections.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Artegg
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 13:17:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Artegg on 13/01/2004 13:18:30
Quote:
What I will never do, is allow the corps involved with the NVA to slander Jericho Fraction and myself without response.
This will finish when the smearing-attempts do.
Jade same goes for me:
38. On the trade-runs, the intel was shared quite some time before castor. And I made quite an effort to interest NVA CEOĘs in the prospect. Artegg vetoed Rona interest on the grounds that the cost and risks were too great. But I rephrase my question, since JF offered this intelligence and income stream for free to the NVA. Why then is it fair and reasonable for CDI to attempt to make a 50% profit on provision of a similar income stream.
I wish i had the chat log from this but sadly this chat happened about 3 months ago when jade announced that " today is a special day" you can make blah blah blah on trade runs today. You buy pluto in so and so and sell it in so and so.
Jade that is the info that you gave the MIB channel. If you had told me at the time that you made 40-50 mill per day on trade route is would have trained up to fly a hauler and done the same as you as what you said when i was on line was "today is a special day" not you can do this every day, I thought about if it would be worth me training up a hauler and decided against it.
Jade this "Artegg vetoed Rona interest on the grounds that the cost and risks were too great" is just crap and you know it.
I have never flown a hauler in this game so how could i look at the cost and risks as i hardly even know how much a hauler can carry.
You carry on twisting words to suit your siutation and living in fariy land.
|
DB Preacher
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 13:23:00 -
[61]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 13/01/2004 13:27:19
Quote:
If you had told me at the time that you made 40-50 mill per day on trade route is would have trained up to fly a hauler and done the same as you as what you said when i was on line was "today is a special day" not you can do this every day, I thought about if it would be worth me training up a hauler and decided against it.
Your an idiot for not looking more into it then.
I got the same information as you and instantly looked into the potential for doing trade runs. It took me about 3.895 secs to realise that the amount of money to be made far outweighed the risks and that you could do this every day.
I was thankful to jericho for sharing that information with us for the good of the nva.
RKK instantly started doing as much as we could and made a wee bit of cash to keep our fighting going.
You can hardly blame Jade for you being lazy.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
|
Artegg
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 13:29:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Artegg on 13/01/2004 13:31:55
Quote:
Edited by: DB Preacher on 13/01/2004 13:23:49
Quote:
If you had told me at the time that you made 40-50 mill per day on trade route is would have trained up to fly a hauler and done the same as you as what you said when i was on line was "today is a special day" not you can do this every day, I thought about if it would be worth me training up a hauler and decided against it.
Your an idiot for not looking more into it then.
I got the same information as you and instantly looked into the potential for doing trade runs. It took me about 3.895 secs to realise that the amount of money to be made far outweighed the risks and was glad for jericho to share that information with us for the good of the nva.
RKK instantly started doing as much as we could and made a wee bit of cash to keep our fighting going.
dbp
I am not a total idiot DB i have no intrest in doing trade routes. As the chat was going on in the MIB channel i was relying it to my CEO via MSN, The fact that we make our money from different methods is up to us do you not think. Personally i think that trade routes are about the most boring thing to do in this game. At one point i was killing convoys and getting about 3k harvesters per day but after 3 days of killing them i o then spent about 3 weeks trying to sell them on the trade channel and i got bored. It is just some thing that i do not want to do does that make me a idiot i play this game for FUN not to set a hauler of and go afk while it travels 25 jumps one way then come back and send it back.
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:29:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Maud Dib on 13/01/2004 13:34:35
Quote:
I go to sleep for 8 hours and watch some tv and this happens. Its gone to far to read it all. I will have to pick up the digested version later, unless one of you kind folk could sum it up in a couple of paragraphs. I hate to be uninformed, but I can't read that much while I am at work, and let's face it, I doubt I will read it all when I get home.
Blargh.
My best guess is that people have been talking at each other instead of to each other for too long.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:30:00 -
[64]
Well here is the thing Artegg,
Quote:
I wish i had the chat log from this but sadly this chat happened about 3 months ago when jade announced that " today is a special day" you can make blah blah blah on trade runs today. You buy pluto in so and so and sell it in so and so.
The full trade run information given was intended to be used by your corp, and the corps of other NVA members. I explained that it was a double profit day, and such days happen every week of so. That there is high profit *everyday*, but that particular day was *a special day* with double profit.
Quote:
Jade that is the info that you gave the MIB channel. If you had told me at the time that you made 40-50 mill per day on trade route is would have trained up to fly a hauler and done the same as you as what you said when i was on line was "today is a special day" not you can do this every day, I thought about if it would be worth me training up a hauler and decided against it.
That sums up your attitude Artegg ... "me, me, me" the concept didn't work for you personally, hence you never bothered to inform your corp.
Thats why you are an appaling leader, and an appalling representative for Rona.
And thats why I described you as "veto'ing" Rona involvement.
Quote:
Jade this "Artegg vetoed Rona interest on the grounds that the cost and risks were too great" is just crap and you know it.
It looks pretty accurate from your own words.
Quote:
I have never flown a hauler in this game so how could i look at the cost and risks as i hardly even know how much a hauler can carry.
How can i put this any plainer? The proposal wasn't for you Artegg. As an MIB member you were the representative for your corp. You should have passed the information to the hauler pilots in Rona. That was your job in MIB. Clearly you thought that the MIB committe was some kind of gentlemen's club for priviledged information for your ears alone.
You should have informed Rona, then made preparations to cover the run.
Quote:
You carry on twisting words to suit your siutation and living in fariy land.
You have never yet demonstrated a single example of me doing that, and all the while you show you are a selfish man, not capable of doing the job in MIB and representing your corp.
JF Public Forum |
Artegg
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:33:00 -
[65]
Quote:
Well here is the thing Artegg,
Quote:
I wish i had the chat log from this but sadly this chat happened about 3 months ago when jade announced that " today is a special day" you can make blah blah blah on trade runs today. You buy pluto in so and so and sell it in so and so.
The full trade run information given was intended to be used by your corp, and the corps of other NVA members. I explained that it was a double profit day, and such days happen every week of so. That there is high profit *everyday*, but that particular day was *a special day* with double profit.
Quote:
Jade that is the info that you gave the MIB channel. If you had told me at the time that you made 40-50 mill per day on trade route is would have trained up to fly a hauler and done the same as you as what you said when i was on line was "today is a special day" not you can do this every day, I thought about if it would be worth me training up a hauler and decided against it.
That sums up your attitude Artegg ... "me, me, me" the concept didn't work for you personally, hence you never bothered to inform your corp.
Thats why you are an appaling leader, and an appalling representative for Rona.
And thats why I described you as "veto'ing" Rona involvement.
Quote:
Jade this "Artegg vetoed Rona interest on the grounds that the cost and risks were too great" is just crap and you know it.
It looks pretty accurate from your own words.
Quote:
I have never flown a hauler in this game so how could i look at the cost and risks as i hardly even know how much a hauler can carry.
How can i put this any plainer? The proposal wasn't for you Artegg. As an MIB member you were the representative for your corp. You should have passed the information to the hauler pilots in Rona. That was your job in MIB. Clearly you thought that the MIB committe was some kind of gentlemen's club for priviledged information for your ears alone.
You should have informed Rona, then made preparations to cover the run.
Quote:
You carry on twisting words to suit your siutation and living in fariy land.
You have never yet demonstrated a single example of me doing that, and all the while you show you are a selfish man, not capable of doing the job in MIB and representing your corp.
Jade which part of this did you not understand
As the chat was going on in the MIB channel i was relying it to my CEO via MSN
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:33:00 -
[66]
Quote:
I am not a total idiot DB i have no intrest in doing trade routes.
Then why did you bother bringing the trade routes up? If you were never interested nor bothered to look into them, why complain that Jade never gave enough information for free about them?
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Artegg
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:36:00 -
[67]
Quote:
Quote:
I am not a total idiot DB i have no intrest in doing trade routes.
Then why did you bother bringing the trade routes up? If you were never interested nor bothered to look into them, why complain that Jade never gave enough information for free about them?
dbp
Jade was the one who brought it up DB not me she said i vetoed it for rona i am saying that is not true. Where did i ever complain about jade giving out the info
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:37:00 -
[68]
And more to the point, if you were informing Robeyone as you claim [in your words].
Quote:
"As the chat was going on in the MIB channel i was relying it to my CEO via MSN"
How come Robeyone wrote in response to my earlier questions that he had not been properly briefed?
JF Public Forum |
Artegg
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:38:00 -
[69]
Quote:
And more to the point, if you were informing Robeyone as you claim [in your words].
Quote:
"As the chat was going on in the MIB channel i was relying it to my CEO via MSN"
How come Robeyone wrote in response to my earlier questions that he had not been properly briefed?
That you will have to ask robey not me
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:40:00 -
[70]
Artegg and Jade sitting in a tree. K-I-S-S-I-N-G
xx
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:43:00 -
[71]
You "veto'ed" Rona involvement in effect by not informing your corp Artegg. Its that simple. You were the Rona Rep on MIB. It was your job to keep your corp informed.
You failed.
Because you personally find trade runs boring.
Selfish, without vision, and self-centred.
Would that sum you up nicely?
But re and this MSN conversation I just don't get it. If you were passing on what i was saying to Robeyone, I just don't understand how he comes to this answer to my question about trade runs.
Quote:
Robeyone
If this is referring to the Trade Runs I think this should have been done a whole lot earlier. I didn't even know that these existed until right before Castor was released and I even talked to you about what BP's and Assets you guys had and how your guys were making you ISK. Then agian the way the NVA was running I don't find this all to disturbing becasue the organization as a whole had a corp centric mentality.
You confirm the meeting with 3 months ago Artegg. Castor was a lot more recent.
Please explain how this happened?
JF Public Forum |
Artegg
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:50:00 -
[72]
Quote:
You "veto'ed" Rona involvement in effect by not informing your corp Artegg. Its that simple. You were the Rona Rep on MIB. It was your job to keep your corp informed.
You failed.
Because you personally find trade runs boring.
Selfish, without vision, and self-centred.
Would that sum you up nicely?
But re and this MSN conversation I just don't get it. If you were passing on what i was saying to Robeyone, I just don't understand how he comes to this answer to my question about trade runs.
Quote:
Robeyone
If this is referring to the Trade Runs I think this should have been done a whole lot earlier. I didn't even know that these existed until right before Castor was released and I even talked to you about what BP's and Assets you guys had and how your guys were making you ISK. Then agian the way the NVA was running I don't find this all to disturbing becasue the organization as a whole had a corp centric mentality.
You confirm the meeting with 3 months ago Artegg. Castor was a lot more recent.
Please explain how this happened?
Jade as a rep for RONA i did inform my CEO (the fact that this happened about 3 months ago may have even been longer not to sure but i know it was before i started playing EVE on my own computer so i would say about 3 months ago)
Me and robey talk about a lot of eve reltated suff and a lot of non eve related stuff on MSN do you think that maybe he might have forgotten i know you are perfect and have never done anything like that but guess waht in the real world it happens
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.13 14:08:00 -
[73]
Here's the thing Artegg. I'm not perfect but when I make mistakes I say "hey, I'm sorry, I apologise."
Whereas you never do.
And failing to admit you make mistakes is amongst the worst of your many unattractive traits Artegg.
End of the day, you came fumbling into this thread with another lame accusation that I had misrepresented a situation and achieved absolutely nothing but clarify your own ineptitude and selfish approach to leadership.
Because you found trade running "boring" your corp never gained access to the potential profits and in your tiny mind Jericho Fraction continued to offer the NVA nothing.
JF Public Forum |
Artegg
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Posted - 2004.01.13 14:26:00 -
[74]
Quote:
Here's the thing Artegg. I'm not perfect but when I make mistakes I say "hey, I'm sorry, I apologise."
Whereas you never do.
And failing to admit you make mistakes is amongst the worst of your many unattractive traits Artegg.
End of the day, you came fumbling into this thread with another lame accusation that I had misrepresented a situation and achieved absolutely nothing but clarify your own ineptitude and selfish approach to leadership.
Because you found trade running "boring" your corp never gained access to the potential profits and in your tiny mind Jericho Fraction continued to offer the NVA nothing.
No jade you are wrong i passed the info on to my CEO at that point in time i was not even a director in RONA so i passed the info to someone who would do something about it
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Erim Kaluk
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Posted - 2004.01.13 14:28:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Erim Kaluk on 13/01/2004 14:30:33
The thing here is that, in a large MANUFACTURING corp such as RONA. I (please note the I bit) don't think we actually give a flying **** about trade routes. So, trying to make Artegg, who is an incredibly well respected bloke both in RONA and what was the NVA, look bad by bringing this up is just plain silly.
I can't see how this kind of thing is roleplay and actually adds anything to the game tbh.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.13 14:37:00 -
[76]
Yeah yeah, I get it, Rona is so huge they don't care about alternative sources of income so such things are irrelevent.
Well the thing was, it wasn't irrelevent to the smaller corps in the NVA, some of whom badly needed an alternative source of income.
And as for bringing it up, lets try a mental challenge for you both.
Its called.
"Looking at things from the other perspective".
Now Jade comes into MIB channel and tells everyone there about an alternative income stream, how it is accessed, the costs, the gains, the dangers. And asks people to inform their corps.
I (playing the role of Artegg for a moment) am not interested, I don't like the sound of it and frankly trade is boring.
I don't say anything much to Jade, and I have some abrubt MSN convo with Robey.
End of story.
Now, lets try it from the Jade's perspective now.
Artegg (who is Rona MIB rep) is told something. Nothing comes of it. Nothing at all.
Why is it not fair to conclude that he veto'ed the idea?
(Especially ... when Robeyone the Rona CEO puts on record as a response to a QA session that he knew nothing of the proposal)
Riddle me that mastermind?
JF Public Forum |
Erim Kaluk
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Posted - 2004.01.13 14:59:00 -
[77]
Artegg didn't say he vetoed it. He said he mentioned it to Robey and it probably got lost in all the other stuff CEO's and Execs do in RONA.
Going on and on about this is just pointless.
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Keenon
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Posted - 2004.01.13 15:30:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Keenon on 13/01/2004 15:32:06
jeez i hear u all saying that this is pointless-if thats true y do yap at eachother over and over
since im not involved into this and to tell the truth i dont really care- it seems to me that all of u are bored and have nothing better to do then call eachother liers and backstabers just for kicks
i dont really know but any mature person would have stoped posting here a few days ago
i mean jeez - jericho was kicked from the new alliance because of jade so what happens jade gets on the forums calling oberon liers and backstabers(now in my opinion u guys from TNA shouldnt even have answerd-i mean whats the point-u kicked jericho out, why trade words with them afterwards)
u are contradicting yourselfs really-i dont get it-jade gets on the forums posts some thing , and logical thing to do 4 u guys would have been to ignore her(i mean its what u guys wanted, she is gone good bye dont call us we'll call u)
Any speeling errors are 4 your viewing pleasure
===============================================
Help keep carebear population under control!!!! POD U LATER |
KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2004.01.13 15:35:00 -
[79]
I think this argument has got so drawn out, it's not even about the original topic, and is prob a good place to stop.
---
Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.13 15:52:00 -
[80]
I do actually agree Inkz, I'm happy to leave this if the TinA faction members stop posting slurs and smears and groundless accusations.
I think you should use the line from the other thread about the "lads only non-roleplay teamspeak council".
JF Public Forum |
Slagg
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Posted - 2004.01.13 15:59:00 -
[81]
Jade, just move along. Their own actions speaks louder than your works. Either way, who cares?
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.13 16:02:00 -
[82]
Who knows slagg? In my heart of hearts I actually believe that Eve has a user base of political fans that love this stuff. I've no facts and figures to back up that hunch, but hey, lets just say I feel an obligation to be entertaining.
/emote sings Evita to the sound of one hand clapping.
JF Public Forum |
KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2004.01.13 16:11:00 -
[83]
actually it's not lads only.
One of the RONA directors is female, and my ass will be grass l8r if she see's that, then I will have to go without ammo for the next 2 weeks 
---
Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
Ly'sol
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Posted - 2004.01.13 16:15:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Ly'sol on 13/01/2004 16:15:47
Quote:
Who knows slagg? In my heart of hearts I actually believe that Eve has a user base of political fans that love this stuff. I've no facts and figures to back up that hunch, but hey, lets just say I feel an obligation to be entertaining.
/emote sings Evita to the sound of one hand clapping.
I love to argue
--------------------------
Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
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Kenlon
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Posted - 2004.01.13 17:45:00 -
[85]
I dunno about you people, but I find all this political wrangling deeply satisfying.
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KIAPieman
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Posted - 2004.01.13 19:03:00 -
[86]
Quote:
Edited by: olyyy on 13/01/2004 03:19:39
found back something funny
Quote:
This is what has led us to this point, the NVA is a strong regional power and is growing stronger, with the likes of Rona, Cyberdyne, and Oberon, and with the leadership qualities of Jericho Faction and the unshakeable spirit of KIA Corp along with the myriad of other corps bringing their own special qualities, we have a varied and well working bunch who I think would be willing to die (in game!!) to keep our alliance going. I hope this entertains some, informs others, and bring back a few memories of times past, but we have to look towards the future.
(KIAPieman)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=49955
things are changing so fast
well i did pen that over 2 months ago
--------------------------------------------------------
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Darkcraft
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Posted - 2004.01.13 19:24:00 -
[87]
DonĘt you think that this thread is now a million AU off topic? The original thread intention was good but as with most threads in this section it has been derailed and seems to now be about the wonderful world of Jade.
Would it be possible to get this now pointless thread locked / deleted / removed etc
Oh and jadeą go find yourself a mirror to rant at, at least that way you'll have someone to talk to who cares.
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Robeyone
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Posted - 2004.01.13 20:19:00 -
[88]
I am asking for a cease and desists for all comments to this thread from any TiNA member. There is no point in these talks, everyone needs to move forward please refrain from posting.
Thank You
http://www.ronacorp.com |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.01.13 20:22:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 13/01/2004 20:25:50
Who made you the little god of who can debate what and when and with who?
This thread "entitled Rona answers Jade's questions" has a clue to the purpose hidden somewhere in the letters ;)
And quit demanding mods lock threads you don't like.
Scared of something are we?
Edit - that was aimed at "darkcraft" not Robeyone who is being sensible as ever.
JF Public Forum |
Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2004.01.14 17:54:00 -
[90]
flaming
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
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