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Why allow supercapitals in Empire?

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SN3263827 The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.06.09 13:07:00 - [31] Originally by: Rawthorm Seriously tho there are a good few ways to kill an MS in low sec, but im hardly gonna list them off so people can have a pop at me am I? You would say that. The fact remains that it has never happened despite concerted efforts to make it happen. I don't dispute that its possible just that it depends on the MOM pilot making a mistake rather than the anti-mom fleet doing everything right. _____________________________________________ Free the Oimmo One!
Rawthorm Gallente The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.06.09 13:27:00 - [32] Originally by: SN3263827 Originally by: Rawthorm Seriously tho there are a good few ways to kill an MS in low sec, but im hardly gonna list them off so people can have a pop at me am I? You would say that. The fact remains that it has never happened despite concerted efforts to make it happen. I don't dispute that its possible just that it depends on the MOM pilot making a mistake rather than the anti-mom fleet doing everything right. Concerted efforts? What a load of tosh. Most efforts i've seen were either poor or vocal rather than physical. Only exception to this so far for me has been Outbreak and they almost succeded and that was with a pretty unimaginitive aproach. Add in a bit of cunning and catch the MS when it's not in a deadpsace pocket and you got yourself a MS kill.
eXtas BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.06.09 14:07:00 - [33] Originally by: Rawthorm Originally by: SN3263827 Originally by: Rawthorm Seriously tho there are a good few ways to kill an MS in low sec, but im hardly gonna list them off so people can have a pop at me am I? You would say that. The fact remains that it has never happened despite concerted efforts to make it happen. I don't dispute that its possible just that it depends on the MOM pilot making a mistake rather than the anti-mom fleet doing everything right. Concerted efforts? What a load of tosh. Most efforts i've seen were either poor or vocal rather than physical. Only exception to this so far for me has been Outbreak and they almost succeded and that was with a pretty unimaginitive aproach. Add in a bit of cunning and catch the MS when it's not in a deadpsace pocket and you got yourself a MS kill. meh a mom would just cyno out when it notices some neut bs's if it isnt totaly ******** pilot, but then its not harder to kill a mom in low-sec then 0.0 because it would just smartbomb the dictor bubles... so to kill it u just need to ninja neut its cap, then bump it around with bs's or carriers so it gets out of sync
Rawthorm Gallente The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.06.09 14:21:00 - [34] Originally by: eXtas meh a mom would just cyno out when it notices some neut bs's if it isnt totaly ******** pilot, but then its not harder to kill a mom in low-sec then 0.0 because it would just smartbomb the dictor bubles... so to kill it u just need to ninja neut its cap, then bump it around with bs's or carriers so it gets out of sync But then that down the player really. If the MS pilot your after is a total coward and leaves at the sign of anything more than a solo battleship then there isnt much you can do and you'd have the same problem killing him no matter what he was flying. Just because a NPC'ing battleship for example decided to run off and hide does not mean that the battleship is over powered but that rather the pilot is either paranoid or a coward which saddly isnt criminal in this game. I'm a firm beliver that as PvP'ers we have to work for the kill. If we want to rob someone of their assets then it should be us as the attackers that have to find a way to use the tools we have and come up with the cunning plan to put them in place. It's not the targets place to have to bend over and die just cos we want to kill him. After all it taken him days/weeks/months/years to get whatever we kill in the space of about 3-4 minutes so we should naturaly have the harder time.
Miz Cenuij OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.06.09 17:36:00 - [35] Funnily enough I agree with Rawthorn "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.09 17:53:00 - [36] The problem is that most of the vaunted anti supercap strategies rely heavily on metagaming (lots of alts, messing with the pilots head etc), this should not be the case. If its going to exist ingame, there should be an ingame counter to it...in .0 you got the bubbles which is fine, but in lowsec theres nothing you can do to prevent him sticking around for a while, droneraping several attackers then cyno out before his cap is dead. That said, rather than bar them from entering lowsec Id rather there be some ships or mods or something that have the capability of putting points on a supercap. Its fine that capitals are all big and bad, but they need a serious achilles heel so they dont just become the next size up ship of the line and make bs and below obsolete. Likewise said weakness shouldnt just be bring 10000000 ships, weve tried that and most people agree that blob warfare isnt all that enjoyable hence CCP looking at alternatives. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Slayton Ford Vindicate and Deliverance ASGARDIAN EMPIRE	Posted - 2007.06.09 19:26:00 - [37] I also agree with limiting supercaps to 00. The only time you see them in low sec is for inta-ganks. This also brings the whole SmartBomb issue out though as something else that needs to be fixed. Smartbombs get equipped in high slots there fore there range should be based off the highslot point they are in. Now on a titan, this may gimp their use.... --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer...
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2007.06.09 19:48:00 - [38] I have a news for you ,from blueprint channel Miz Cenuij > WTB Titan bpc Originally by: Yurii Chan Edited by: Yurii Chan on 08/06/2007 21:02:24 ask Miz Cenuij/ Ginger Magician what they do in their Nyx usually in Crierlere (however its spelt). practically AFK gate camping with officer smartbombs (i was lucky to have fallen 14km away from the Nyx therefore no instapop for me)
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.06.10 18:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Rawthorm Only exception to this so far for me has been Outbreak and they almost succeded and that was with a pretty unimaginitive aproach. Add in a bit of cunning and catch the MS when it's not in a deadpsace pocket and you got yourself a MS kill. I was there. The engagement was at a planet not a deadspace pocket. The only thing that could be done that may have required more imagination might have been to dump some secure cans around the MS to prevent it aligning, but that wouldn't guarantee the kill either because cans can't be placed precisely. Again, killing an MS requires the MS pilot to screw up or a lot of luck. That shouldn't be the case. The only people who are saying that MS in lowsec can be killed are MS pilots, and they all sing from the same hymnsheet - "It can be done but we aren't saying how" which is just another way of saying "We like the status quo; invulnerability suits us fine". _____________________________________________ Free the Oimmo One!
Yurii Chan	Posted - 2007.06.10 19:31:00 - [40] Originally by: KISOGOKU I have a news for you ,from blueprint channel Miz Cenuij > WTB Titan bpc Originally by: Yurii Chan Edited by: Yurii Chan on 08/06/2007 21:02:24 ask Miz Cenuij/ Ginger Magician what they do in their Nyx usually in Crierlere (however its spelt). practically AFK gate camping with officer smartbombs (i was lucky to have fallen 14km away from the Nyx therefore no instapop for me) thats old news, Ginger aka Cenuij has appealed to alliance Titan pilots to steal an alliance titan for him vowing to pay 80 billion isk for the trouble. (wonder if 80b isk is enough to wash the taint from the thief's char)

Cheechako Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.10 20:43:00 - [41] Factional alliances develop a new 'super capital' gate gun for low sec placement around stations and gates. Capeable of killing any super capital ship within seconds. Bam problem solved of low sec pirating.
Miz Cenuij OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.06.10 22:27:00 - [42] To be clear on this, me and Ginger are not the same person. Looks like someone needs to get a clue. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Terra Mauter Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.10 22:32:00 - [43] Originally by: Miz Cenuij To be clear on this, me and Ginger are not the same person. Looks like someone needs to get a clue. Its comedy how many people think you are
Mongo Loid	Posted - 2007.06.10 22:48:00 - [44] Edited by: Mongo Loid on 10/06/2007 22:47:24 There are two ways to fix the problem of invulnerable supercaps in low sec. Either allow dictor bubbles in low sec, or just boot the supercaps out into 0.0 The first is way too broad a change just to fix this problem, the second is the best option except for a half-dozen losers who think PvP consists of sitting AFK on a gate 23/7 smartbombs blazing in their unkillable solo pwnmobile.
Yurii Chan	Posted - 2007.06.11 05:23:00 - [45] Originally by: Miz Cenuij To be clear on this, me and Ginger are not the same person. Looks like someone needs to get a clue. bah wtb a clue. sorry mate, once thought i heard Ginger had bought Miz Cenuij from somewhere in the forums. plus the fact that whenever i see Ginger i see you didnt help any... apologies for mistakenly having taken you two as an item, please resume your usual duties with my sincerest remorse for this grave mistake
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2007.06.11 06:54:00 - [46] Said it before, saying it again. If a supercapital is supposed to have a support fleet with it, why is it immune to warpscrambling? Take away this ability and you got yourself a balanced ship, instead of a lowsecsologatecampingmobile. ------ When you say "no one's perfect", Chuck Norris takes this as a personal insult.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.11 10:04:00 - [47] /checks //double checks ///triple-checks HOLY MOLEY! I found a thread that Dark Shikaki hasn't posted in!?!?!?! He must be getting old.
Onnawa Minmatar Alcohol Fueled Brutality X-PACT	Posted - 2007.06.11 11:01:00 - [48] A 0.0 limit isn't the answer.....motherships are still useful in lowsec, and wanthing to throw them out because a few enterprising individuals use them for murder and mayhem is just a touch carebearish. Plenty of people use them to bring in/out resources and products to and from the Empire markets, and nothin says lovin like a Momma assigning fighters. That being said, I do feel their complete invulnerability to EW is a fat bit of bunk. All ships should be succeptable to a degree, and some moreso than others. ECM should be determined solely by sensor stregnth, and since a supercap would logically have more surface area and more sensors, they would be much harder to jam. Internal space would also allow for more of an allotment for ECCM computers and descramblers, but if some enterprising group wants to bring along twenty blackbirds or rooks, I say power to them...the fighters still defend. Mix it up and make it messy. And just to stop the argument now, ECCM and sensor-boosting modules should be chassis-based and size related, much like weapons and tank components are now. That would give the supercaps higher CPU and Powergrid constraints (and all ships, to be honest) so you can't "IWIN" your way out of a bad situation with a rack of F-90s or F-89s to fill your odd slots. As far as propulsion, supercaps get the immunity for good reason. The number of points it would take to lock down a warp or jump bubble that large would be mind-numbing. Give her the old bug-on-the-windshield approach, jam the life out of it, and start busting up fighters. And as far as titans gate-camping lowsec, when someone hears about the first recorded instance, we'll address that beef then. Most of the Mega-Alliances who own titans have better things to do with them than sit on a gate in lowsec and collect t2 mods that they can build themselves for much cheaper without risking a titan. _____________________________________ I'm not a Pirate. I just have anger management issues.......and kleptomania.
Damien Smith Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.11 14:07:00 - [49] Miz can't be ginger. Miz can spell...
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2007.06.11 14:52:00 - [50] Originally by: Onnawa As far as propulsion, supercaps get the immunity for good reason. The number of points it would take to lock down a warp or jump bubble that large would be mind-numbing. What is the reason? And how much is mind-numbing? 30? 300? If mind-numbing is 300 points then why doesn't it say 300 points of warp core stability instead of infinite? Invulnerability is ba.a.a.a.a.ad ------ When you say "no one's perfect", Chuck Norris takes this as a personal insult.

Onnawa Minmatar Alcohol Fueled Brutality X-PACT	Posted - 2007.06.12 08:08:00 - [51] How many points it has wouldn't really matter, now would it? A simple bump or 2 puts him out of warp alignment, and a warp scram won't stop a jumpdrive last I checked....different drive system. "Invulnerability" insofar as warp drive goes is nipples on a bull...a carrier or mothership is more than easy enough to stop by playing bumpsies. _____________________________________ I'm not a Pirate. I just have anger management issues.......and kleptomania.
Miz Cenuij OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.06.12 08:18:00 - [52] I dont camp alone. The Nyx is not a SOLOPWNMOBILE. It cant tackle anything smaller than a BS on its own. People do attack it and force me out of the system (siege dreads = not pleasant). If people dont want me camping in thier systems its pretty bloody easy to force me to leave, but i guess its easier to wtf cry and rant on the forums. Losers. Jelous ones at that. All my love - Miz x. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Miz Cenuij OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.06.12 08:18:00 - [53] I dont camp alone. The Nyx is not a SOLOPWNMOBILE. It cant tackle anything smaller than a BS on its own. People do attack it and force me out of the system (siege dreads = not pleasant). If people dont want me camping in thier systems its pretty bloody easy to force me to leave, but i guess its easier to wtf cry and rant on the forums. Losers. Jelous ones at that. All my love - Miz x. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Ashaz Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.06.12 08:54:00 - [54] Originally by: Miz Cenuij For every whinging sad lil bear that makes a post like this there are dozens more who when tey come across our supercapital camp are bloody happy. Survive or not its a real novelty for a lot of people to see a Mom camping. People travel from halfway across the map to see it and some even beg to be murdered. Take a note out of thier books and be a man, not a bear! So true. I got jumped by a mom last week. How I managed to tank it long enough to get into warp still surprises me. But my one thought when I had gotten out was not "yes I saved my domi". It was "WHY the fisk did I not hammer printscreen??" They are impressive things to see. iDrone
Parko Mantorius	Posted - 2007.06.12 09:45:00 - [55] Right now Supercapitals are the exception. But in EVE ISK and skill points are constantly increasing. So advance time a few weeks. I picture Supercapital camping will become the norm rather than the exception. And if every single gate between high and low sec is camped by a supercap, what do you think will happen to the low sec population?
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2007.06.12 09:59:00 - [56] Originally by: Miz Cenuij I dont camp alone. The Nyx is not a SOLOPWNMOBILE. It cant tackle anything smaller than a BS on its own. People do attack it and force me out of the system (siege dreads = not pleasant). If people dont want me camping in thier systems its pretty bloody easy to force me to leave, but i guess its easier to wtf cry and rant on the forums. Losers. Jelous ones at that. All my love - Miz x. Well, I'm talking about normally skilled pvpers. With three accounts you can easily gatecamp solo (yup, it's still solo) with impunity. One tackler/scout, one cynobiotch in another system and the nyx. Tell me how you can be killed by something other than a concentrated effort of 20+ people? Just because you run when you see a frig gang doesn't mean you need to. ------ When you say "no one's perfect", Chuck Norris takes this as a personal insult.
Kyozoku Mutiny.	Posted - 2007.06.12 10:55:00 - [57] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: SN3263827 Originally by: Janu Hull Get wtfpwnt by a dread in lowsec? Dreads aren't supercapitals. That hit me right after I posted, but I figured it wasn't worth the edit. Silly whine to begin with. The only reason for a Titan to be in low sec would be for jump bridging for some reason, and I can't even think of why someone would bother with a mom that high. Though I'd be absolutely curious to see a Titan go up against CONCORD, just once. I pray for the day we can doomsday mining ops.


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