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Onezen
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Posted - 2007.06.10 06:53:00 -
[1]
I can fly a Taranis but I've heard that they are not the best interceptor.
Which one stands out as the best one?
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Lithel
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.10 06:57:00 -
[2]
This game has no "best" anything...
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MassonA
Caldari
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.10 06:59:00 -
[3]
probably the crow
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zwerg
kleptomaniacs
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Posted - 2007.06.10 07:04:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Onezen
BEAT ME ZWERG, PLEASE PLEASE BEAT ME UP, ID LIKE IT SOOOO MUCH!!!11
... eve's youngest piwat Yarrrr :)
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Entreri Finwe
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2007.06.10 07:56:00 -
[5]
They are good at different things...
I like to fly the Stiletto in gangs, 4 mids are nice to have...
The only intys that I can see as bad are the Malediction and Raptor and I think it's more for lack of damage/speed that that they are just worthless...the Malediction IIRC can get pretty decent speed and three mids alows it to fit a webber but it lacks the damage of the Crusader...
---
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Gee Lok
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Posted - 2007.06.10 08:26:00 -
[6]
Interceptors really have two roles as far as pvp goes. Anti support and tackling.
The taranis is a prety nice inty tbh. It has inty speed and dps like an AF, so it is arguably the best at anti frig & cruiser.
The crow is the best tackler even though it is kinda slow because it can orbit at 20km while scraming and spamming with missiles.
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Plave Okice
Gallente
Combat Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.10 08:41:00 -
[7]
Stilleto is an awesome tackler with its 4 mids
Crow and Taranis can both do decent dps for an inty. If you can tolerate the speed penalty with enough skills and implants then a T2 long range rocket Crow is an amazing ship.
All 3 are great ships.
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sandamar
Gallente
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.10 09:23:00 -
[8]
From my point of view i would say that :
-taranis railgun or blaster is awesome.
-crow is awesome too.
The crow could be better at tackling, and the taranis at anti support, besides a taranis fitted with blaster tech II deals a lot of damage.
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2007.06.10 11:29:00 -
[9]
SHort range - taranis, long range - Crow.
---------------------------------
Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh
Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS.
R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven>
R.I.P. <Eagle>
R.I.P. <ECM>
R.I.P. <Drake>
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 11:32:00 -
[10]
Crow sucks.
Best longrange ceptor is easily the Crusader.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Goshinko
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Posted - 2007.06.10 11:35:00 -
[11]
Inty vs. Inty = Crusader or Railranis
General Purpose = Crow, Railranis
DPS = Blasteranis, Claw, (Rocket crow?)
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2007.06.10 11:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ryysa
Crow sucks.
Best longrange ceptor is easily the Crusader.
Invest some money into Crow. And skills. If you do not believe me, ask BoD, they know for sure which inter is the best.
---------------------------------
Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh
Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS.
R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven>
R.I.P. <Eagle>
R.I.P. <ECM>
R.I.P. <Drake>
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Morreia
The Celestial Element
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Posted - 2007.06.10 12:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ryysa
Crow sucks.
Best longrange ceptor is easily the Crusader.
Well thats certainly a change.
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Marquis Dean
Demise and Vestige
9th Fleet
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Posted - 2007.06.10 12:07:00 -
[14]
Why are people so obsessed with finding the 'best' of something. If one was clearly the best, there wouldn't be any point in the others.
None one example of anything is 'the best', get over it.
---
Originally by: Wild Rho
I'm having a hard time getting over the irony of spelling "dumb" wrong.
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Parfait M
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Posted - 2007.06.10 12:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zixxa
Originally by: Ryysa
Crow sucks.
Best longrange ceptor is easily the Crusader.
Invest some money into Crow. And skills. If you do not believe me, ask BoD, they know for sure which inter is the best.
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Murehz
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Posted - 2007.06.10 12:11:00 -
[16]
As an all rounder I would have to probably say crow or crusader tbh.
I'm personally more a fan of the crow but many people say great things about the sader.
If you know what you want to do with it then obviously there would be more appropiate ones to use (ranis for all out gankage for example).
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 12:58:00 -
[17]
Crusader DPS > Crow DPS
Also, in a 1v1, a Crow can not do anything to a ceptor which goes faster than 6km/s.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Jake Stevens
The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen
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Posted - 2007.06.10 13:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ryysa
Crusader DPS > Crow DPS
Also, in a 1v1, a Crow can not do anything to a ceptor which goes faster than 6km/s.
The crow dps REALLY SUCKS... You seriously can't kill anything bigger than a t1 frig. I don't know why people think the crow is so imba 
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 13:01:00 -
[19]
You can't kill a t1 frig.
It will slowboat back to the gate without speedmods before you kill it.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.06.10 13:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ryysa
You can't kill a t1 frig.
It will slowboat back to the gate without speedmods before you kill it.
160 dps+ at 18km is enough to kill alot of ships. Yes alot of frigs, but also t2 frigs, cruisers, some battlecruisers and noob battleships.
Don't know about the Crusader because i've never flown it.
Killed a few interceptors doing 5-6km/s in my crow, made alot more disengage and warp out on me.
Don't know about the crusader, but last i checked it isn't very hard for any deacent intypilot to break an 10-20/24km orbit in intyfights.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 13:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
160 dps+ at 18km is enough to kill alot of ships. Yes alot of frigs, but also t2 frigs, cruisers, some battlecruisers and noob battleships.
Don't know about the Crusader because i've never flown it.
Killed a few interceptors doing 5-6km/s in my crow, made alot more disengage and warp out on me.
Don't know about the crusader, but last i checked it isn't very hard for any deacent intypilot to break an 10-20/24km orbit in intyfights.
Yay for random crap. Since when does crow do 160 dps?
Also, a ceptor doing 6km/s, you can't even hit with precision lights for any damage, and rockets are too slow to catch up.
You fail. Making up numbers doesn't help you either. yawn.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Rohnda
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Posted - 2007.06.10 13:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Goshinko
Inty vs. Inty = Crusader or Railranis
General Purpose = Crow, Railranis
DPS = Blasteranis, Claw, (Rocket crow?)
Kind of agree with this.. except that Taranis as you write is best dps, and also will own anything that aint close range and it gets in blaster range :)
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Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.06.10 14:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Cpt Fina
160 dps+ at 18km is enough to kill alot of ships. Yes alot of frigs, but also t2 frigs, cruisers, some battlecruisers and noob battleships.
Don't know about the Crusader because i've never flown it.
Killed a few interceptors doing 5-6km/s in my crow, made alot more disengage and warp out on me.
Don't know about the crusader, but last i checked it isn't very hard for any deacent intypilot to break an 10-20/24km orbit in intyfights.
Yay for random crap. Since when does crow do 160 dps?
Also, a ceptor doing 6km/s, you can't even hit with precision lights for any damage, and rockets are too slow to catch up.
You fail. Making up numbers doesn't help you either. yawn.
Just what i thought. I really hoped you would say that you knew about all of this and explained why the crusader is better.
But if you don't know what i'm talking about then you obviously don't have much experience in flying the Crow. I will not post any setup or even give a hint because the Crow is all i fly and it is in my intrest too have people underestimate it.
Precision light missiles will hit targets going 6km/s with even minor skills. Alltho it will get a drawback due to the explosionvelocity vs target velocity, you can still kill an interceptor going 6km/s within a couple of minutes if not less.
I think it hillarious that you think that you are in a position to say anything about the crow with you abvious lack of knowledge.
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Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.06.10 14:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ryysa
Just fyi, Light Missile crow does a whopping 37 DPS. A rocket crow does around 47 dps and a beam sader does around 60-70 dps, heavily depending on ammo.
A Pulse sader with scorch does about 109 dps, but only upto some 10km range.
Just fyi, a light missile crow without any damagemods can do 55 dps without maxed out skills.
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Tassi
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.06.10 14:33:00 -
[25]
pimped crow with 15km/s will win.
you can also fit a shield extender when you are longrange, gives nice hp boost.
Just look at the ASCN/BOB interceptor 1on1, both were crows. Nuff said.
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Susa Ou
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Posted - 2007.06.10 14:34:00 -
[26]
another challanger for Ryysa. . .yawn
The Crow is a fantastic inti - I will grant it that. But if you are looking to kill something and you want to fly the fastest acceleratingg, fastest top speed, highest dps interceptor - then the Crusaider is your ship. In this regard Ryysa is right, the Crusaider, depending on what your qualifications for 'best' are, is the 'best' inti in a more areas traditionally considered good for inties then any other inti. Its weakness is not its dps or speed or even its tanking (tanking on an inti? its called speed!), its weakness is in tracking - a crow does not need to track, it looks at sig radius, which acts differently then transversal. A saider in the zone is one that found that perfect balance between its tracking and its max speed. . .its eiusive.
Anyway, Ryysa is right, but saying the crow 'sucks' is a an overstatement.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 15:00:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 15:02:33
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Just what i thought. I really hoped you would say that you knew about all of this and explained why the crusader is better.
But if you don't know what i'm talking about then you obviously don't have much experience in flying the Crow. I will not post any setup or even give a hint because the Crow is all i fly and it is in my intrest too have people underestimate it.
Dude, you're so full of crap it's not even funny anymore. I'm not the one who said crow does 160 dps, which is 3x as much as it can do.
Also, if you are not going to post anything constructive, might as well not post at all?
Quote:
Precision light missiles will hit targets going 6km/s with even minor skills. Alltho it will get a drawback due to the explosionvelocity vs target velocity, you can still kill an interceptor going 6km/s within a couple of minutes if not less.
Err, precision light missile vs ceptor going 6km/s will do about 18 dps, while if it's a rail ranis/sader he can easily fly in straight line and hit you for 60+dps the entire time. Fail. You either die or run.
Quote:
I think it hillarious that you think that you are in a position to say anything about the crow with you abvious lack of knowledge.
You're really funny. You fail so bad at math that it's not even funny anymore. Fyi, I have pimped crow + snakes. So yeah, whatever.
Quote:
Just fyi, a light missile crow without any damagemods can do 55 dps without maxed out skills.
Noob. It can't. Stop pulling numbers out of your ass.
It can only do that with completely maxed skills (spec must be lv5, never mind all other skills), or high damage ammo. However, high damage missile range is ... 20km, and it nerfs your cap.
I have not yet seen a single crow use them.
Proof here with maxed out skills:
T2 Launcher base ROF: 12 sec.
T1 Kinetic Missile base damage: 75 dmg.
T2 Kinetic Fury Missile base damage: 87 dmg.
Launcher ROF after skills/bonuses: 12*0.9*0.85*0.9 = 8.262 (sec)
T1 Missile damage after skills/bonuses: 75*1.25*1.5*1.1 = 154.6875 (dmg)
T2 Missile damage after skills/bonuses: 87*1.25*1.5*1.1 = 179.4375 (dmg)
DPS: (154.6875.125/8.262)*3 = 55.918 DPS with MAX skills and T1 Missiles.
DPS: (154.6875.125/8.262)*3 = 65.155 DPS with MAX skills and T2 Missiles.
So yeah, I think your argument about "experience" kinda goes out of the window now, since I'm not really one who made a mistake with crow DPS by a factor of 3 earlier .
The other DPS figures I brought out were using non-kinetic missiles, which I have corrected in this post.
Tbh, unless you have anything to back up what you are saying, you might as well shut up, until you make yourself more of an idiot than you have already.
Originally by: Tassi
pimped crow with 15km/s will win.
you can also fit a shield extender when you are longrange, gives nice hp boost.
Just look at the ASCN/BOB interceptor 1on1, both were crows. Nuff said.
A Crusader which you throw the same amount of isk at will have no problem killing said crow. Because once the speed goes over 6km/s, the crow starts doing about 10 dps with precision missiles while gimping it's speed, at 8k/s precision missiles completely fail, and sader can easily do full damage if it flies manually and reduces it's transversal.
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amstaffuuu
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.10 15:03:00 -
[28]
For me there is no best inty
They are bests inty for each race
Malediction==>ammar
Stilleto==>minmatarr
Taranis==>gallentean
I don't like==>caldari
Gaming gloves WTF?!!! |
Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 15:11:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 15:11:17
Come on test server, I'll take a punisher and jump into you, without any speedmods.
I'll slowboat back to the gate, without ab or mwd, if you can kill me I'll eat my words. And that is, without using a web, since if I web you, you'll be pretty screwed.
Until then "meh".
I do fly crow for a long time, and I wouldn't say this, if this hadn't happened to me _multiple_ times.
Originally by: Cpt Fina
I simply laid some crow-facts on the table but I did not in any way state the crusaders ability to preform those tasks.
It's hardly "fact" when it's completely untrue.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Dalanoria
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Posted - 2007.06.10 15:13:00 -
[30]
Im partial to the crusader, that is, I would be if i bothered to fly them for anything but, get from point A - point B fast..
I do recall a few +200 wrecking shots from my medium pulse II on a crusader though...
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Dalanoria
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Posted - 2007.06.10 15:14:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Dalanoria on 10/06/2007 15:13:21
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 15:11:17
Come on test server, I'll take a punisher and jump into you, without any speedmods.
I'll slowboat back to the gate, without ab or mwd, if you can kill me I'll eat my words. And that is, without using a web, since if I web you, you'll be pretty screwed.
Until then "meh".
I do fly crow for a long time, and I wouldn't say this, if this hadn't happened to me _multiple_ times.
Originally by: Cpt Fina
I simply laid some crow-facts on the table but I did not in any way state the crusaders ability to preform those tasks.
It's hardly "fact" when it's completely untrue.
lol, yah but a punisher isnt a fair ship with its roughly 50% flat rate resist....
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 15:15:00 -
[32]
Doesn't matter much, you can take any half-decently tanked t1 frig. Punisher can tank crow with 1 armor rep though, that's the sad part :P
At least until it runs out of cap.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 15:21:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 15:21:38
Originally by: Tassi
I have no experience with pimped up inties but I doubt my sader could hit a 15km/s crow.
nahhh never.
Easily, if you don't click orbit, but fly manually.
Perhaps you should educate yourself on how transversal works. If you are moving at 15km/s and something is moving behind you at 15km/s in a straight line your transversal velocity is equal to 0. Meaning every shot will be a perfect hit.
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Marquis Dean
Demise and Vestige
9th Fleet
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Posted - 2007.06.10 15:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ryysa
Easily, if you don't click orbit, but fly manually.
Therein lies the wisdom of being a good interceptor pilot. With the Crow this doesn't matter, but with all the others, you need to very carefully manipulate your ship in flight so that you can take other inties. If two Beamsaders just tried to orbit each other at 12km, they'd be there all day, but if you know what you're doing, that Crow you're chasing with your 'ranis will melt like it's made of hot wax.
Then again, being a skilled enough pilot to keep your speed high and your transversal low means that your target also has a low transversal on you, and is getting free hits on the back of your skilled flying.
---
Originally by: Wild Rho
I'm having a hard time getting over the irony of spelling "dumb" wrong.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 15:40:00 -
[35]
Yeah, but if your opponent is in crow you can laugh at him :)
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Morreia
The Celestial Element
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:08:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Morreia on 10/06/2007 16:06:44
Out of curiosity for long range why is sader preferable to rail ranis or arty claw apart from the obvious fact that its faster?
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Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:11:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Cpt Fina on 10/06/2007 16:13:39
Quote:
Dude, you're so full of crap it's not even funny anymore. I'm not the one who said crow does 160 dps, which is 3x as much as it can do.
Well, I haven't seen any solid facts from you either.
And i still claim that a crow can do 160 dps in a long range engagement. However i will not show any proof of this. Why i'm even mentioning this is for my own satisfaction of knowing that not even you, who makes a kind of "crowexpert"-impression in your statements and replies to others with a sarcastic undertone, knows about this. It doesn't matter if you don't believe me, the very fact that you think it's impossible makes me feel more comfortable in my own abilities as a crowpilot.
Quote:
Err, precision light missile vs ceptor going 6km/s will do about 18 dps, while if it's a rail ranis/sader he can easily fly in straight line and hit you for 60+dps the entire time. Fail. You either die or run.
What exactly do I fail at. Drop the f*cking attitude and discuss in a civilized way.
As I claimed before, a crow with precision light missiles can do enough damage to kill another interceptor going 6km/s within a couple of minutes or less.
From quickfit. Alltho maybe not 100% accurate (haven't heard any complaints about missiledamage) it's still pretty far from your 18 dps statement.
Crow with T2 launchers without any damagemods or rigs, all purpose setup if you want:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0706/crow1.JPG
From quickfit.
Relatively cheap crowsetup with 1 explosionmodifying rig and a cheap named BCU:
URL: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0706/crow2.JPG
Quote:
You're really funny. You fail so bad at math that it's not even funny anymore. Fyi, I have pimped crow + snakes. So yeah, whatever.
So you got snakes. Do you mean that that means that you automatically know more than me in the subject or am I misunderstanding you completely?
Quote:
Noob. It can't. Stop pulling numbers out of your ass.
It can only do that with completely maxed skills (spec must be lv4+, never mind all other skills), or high damage ammo. However, high damage missile range is ... 20km, and it nerfs your cap.
I have not yet seen a single crow use them.
Proof here with maxed out skills:
T2 Launcher base ROF: 12 sec.
T1 Kinetic Missile base damage: 75 dmg.
T2 Kinetic Fury Missile base damage: 87 dmg.
Launcher ROF after skills/bonuses: 12*0.9*0.85*0.9 = 8.262 (sec)
T1 Missile damage after skills/bonuses: 75*1.25*1.5*1.1 = 154.6875 (dmg)
T2 Missile damage after skills/bonuses: 87*1.25*1.5*1.1 = 179.4375 (dmg)
DPS: (154.6875.125/8.262)*3 = 55.918 DPS with MAX skills and T1 Missiles.
DPS: (154.6875.125/8.262)*3 = 65.155 DPS with MAX skills and T2 Missiles.
Your numbers are correct, but you fail to see why my statement wasn't wrong.
I claimed that you can muster 55 dps with a crow without having any damagemods, damagerigs or maxed skills. I still stand by my statement.
A crow with missileskills at 5, except warhead upgrades which would be at lv, will do about 55,1 dps. JUST AS I CLAIMED IT WOULD. If you however train warheads upg to lv 5 you would end up at the dps you displayed in your facts (55,9).
And again, stop your f*cking attitude. There's no reason to use harsh language.
Oh, and btw. I frequently use T2 Fury missiles with my crow... but yeah, that's not what we are discussing.
Quote:
So yeah, I think your argument about "experience" kinda goes out of the window now, since I'm not really one who made a mistake with crow DPS by a factor of 3 earlier Rolling Eyes.
I know that as long as I refuse to provide solid proof of a Crow that can do 160 dps you can use that against me as a sign of my incompetence. I do however prioritize my crow and its setup before proving anything on Eve-O by revealing the setup.
What you have failed at tho, are solid proof that contradicts what I claim.
Please present your facts. I will however still claim that it's possible without providing any facts or proof whatsoever.
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Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:13:00 -
[38]
Quote:
The other DPS figures I brought out were using non-kinetic missiles, which I have corrected in this post.
Tbh, unless you have anything to back up what you are saying, you might as well shut up, until you make yourself more of an idiot than you have already.
Well, i guess you are calling me an idiot because you believe it's idiotic to think that the crow can do 160 dps and hurt inties flying at 6km/s.
I however are calling you an idiot because you DON'T believe it's idiotic to think that the crow can do 160 dps and hurt inties flying at 6km/s.
(And still you got this annoying f*cking attitude"
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Jake Stevens
The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:16:00 -
[39]
Looks like you just lost this arguement...
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:22:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Edited by: Cpt Fina on 10/06/2007 16:13:39
Quote:
Dude, you're so full of crap it's not even funny anymore. I'm not the one who said crow does 160 dps, which is 3x as much as it can do.
Well, I haven't seen any solid facts from you either.
Sorry, what was that calculation there?
Quote:
And i still claim that a crow can do 160 dps in a long range engagement. However i will not show any proof of this.
This is sig material. "It is so, because I say so, I will not show any proof that it is so, but it is so" bwhahahahaha.
Quote:
Why i'm even mentioning this is for my own satisfaction of knowing that not even you, who makes a kind of "crowexpert"-impression in your statements and replies to others with a sarcastic undertone, knows about this. It doesn't matter if you don't believe me, the very fact that you think it's impossible makes me feel more comfortable in my own abilities as a crowpilot.
I think you need to lay off the drugs mate :P
Quote:
Quote:
Err, precision light missile vs ceptor going 6km/s will do about 18 dps, while if it's a rail ranis/sader he can easily fly in straight line and hit you for 60+dps the entire time. Fail. You either die or run.
What exactly do I fail at. Drop the f*cking attitude and discuss in a civilized way.
As I claimed before, a crow with precision light missiles can do enough damage to kill another interceptor going 6km/s within a couple of minutes or less.
Well, unles you are invulnerable due to devsploits, the interceptor will have killed you ten times over within that time lol...
Quote:
From quickfit. Alltho maybe not 100% accurate (haven't heard any complaints about missiledamage) it's still pretty far from your 18 dps statement.
QUICKFIT?
Dude, please... do me a favor, and realize that if you bring quickfit into any serious dps comparison you will be laughed out.
Quote:
So you got snakes. Do you mean that that means that you automatically know more than me in the subject or am I misunderstanding you completely?
It means that I've flown the crow long enough, that I have no problem putting my 1 billion+ isk pod into it.
Quote:
Your numbers are correct, but you fail to see why my statement wasn't wrong.
I claimed that you can muster 55 dps with a crow without having any damagemods, damagerigs or maxed skills. I still stand by my statement.
Nice to alter your statement. You said "without max skills". Also no sane person uses T2 ammo.
Quote:
A crow with missileskills at 5, except warhead upgrades which would be at lv, will do about 55,1 dps. JUST AS I CLAIMED IT WOULD. If you however train warheads upg to lv 5 you would end up at the dps you displayed in your facts (55,9).
Oh so, if you have one 3% skill not maxed, that's consider not max skilled and far from everything, get over yourself. You kinda forget the fact that you need to have spec 5, inty 5 etc.
Quote:
Oh, and btw. I frequently use T2 Fury missiles with my crow... but yeah, that's not what we are discussing.
Right. Sorry, but I prefer to stay out of nosrange when I tackle ****. That's what a LMS crow does. It stays out of nos and webrange. And that means 25km+.
Quote:
I know that as long as I refuse to provide solid proof of a Crow that can do 160 dps you can use that against me as a sign of my incompetence. I do however prioritize my crow and its setup before proving anything on Eve-O by revealing the setup.
Honestly. You bring the word "stupid" to a whole new high.
Quote:
What you have failed at tho, are solid proof that contradicts what I claim.
Please present your facts. I will however still claim that it's possible without providing any facts or proof whatsoever.
Right. Sorry sir, you are an idiot.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ryysa
QUICKFIT?
Dude, please... do me a favor, and realize that if you bring quickfit into any serious dps comparison you will be laughed out.
Whys that? I dont have much experience with quickfit, whats so bad about it?
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:29:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 16:29:20
Also, regarding your idiotic statement.
A crow with a theoretical setup (not that it would EVER fit) of:
3x t2 rocket launchers, maxed skills, fury missiles, a T2 Light Neutron Blaster, 3x BCS II and completely maxed skills does ~190 dps.
Now, this has not even remotely chance of fitting.
With a realistic fitting of 3x t2 rocketlaunchers, rage rockets, max skills, 75mm t2 gatling rail with antimatter and 1 BCS II, you do ~127 dps.
Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter
Originally by: Ryysa
QUICKFIT?
Dude, please... do me a favor, and realize that if you bring quickfit into any serious dps comparison you will be laughed out.
Whys that? I dont have much experience with quickfit, whats so bad about it?
There's nothing bad about quickfit, it's a good tool, however it's notoriously unprecise for any sort of DPS calculations in a PVP environment.
If you want to calculate DPS properly, check this spreadsheet which is fairly universally accepted as being as close to the real thing as it gets.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Murehz
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 16:31:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Murehz on 10/06/2007 16:32:43
Originally by: Ryysa
Also, regarding your idiotic statement.
A crow with a theoretical setup (not that it would EVER fit) of:
3x t2 rocket launchers, maxed skills, fury missiles, a T2 Light Neutron Blaster, 3x BCS II and completely maxed skills does ~190 dps.
Now, this has not even remotely chance of fitting.
With a realistic fitting of 3x t2 rocketlaunchers, rage rockets, max skills, 75mm t2 gatling rail with antimatter and 1 BCS II, you do ~127 dps.
Just thought I'd point out that this does more damage than your pulse sader... /me runs and hides.
Also just as you said a skilled sader pilot can manourver to keep speed up but transversal down... a skilled crow pilot can manourver to keep speed p and transversal up at which point neither can hit the other one and it just becomes a case of who has friends closest.
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Tassi
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:35:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 15:24:44
Originally by: Tassi
I have no experience with pimped up inties but I doubt my sader could hit a 15km/s crow.
nahhh never.
Easily, if you don't click orbit, but fly manually.
Perhaps you should educate yourself on how transversal works. If you are moving at 15km/s and something is moving behind you at 15km/s in a straight line your transversal velocity is equal to 0. Meaning every shot will be a perfect hit.
Kinda similar to how you kill inties with a vagabond, without using a web.
At these type of speeds you must be god to reduce your transversal that much. But meh, crow is best intie, no tracking ftw.
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Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:37:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ryysa
There's nothing bad about quickfit, it's a good tool, however it's notoriously unprecise for any sort of DPS calculations in a PVP environment.
If you want to calculate DPS properly, check this spreadsheet which is fairly universally accepted as being as close to the real thing as it gets.
ah, ive seen that spreadsheet before, but it looked too complicated 
guess ill look how it works. and thx for the quick reply 
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:42:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Well, i guess you are calling me an idiot because you believe it's idiotic to think that the crow can do 160 dps and hurt inties flying at 6km/s.
I however are calling you an idiot because you DON'T believe it's idiotic to think that the crow can do 160 dps and hurt inties flying at 6km/s.
(And still you got this annoying f*cking attitude"
Please, stop posting. Indefinitely.
__________
If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Tassi
At these type of speeds you must be god to reduce your transversal that much.
I guess only god knows how to doubleclick once in space to fly in a straight line, after which crow has to follow that line or run.
Quote:
But meh, crow is best noob intie, no tracking ftw.
Corrected it for you. I wonder if you have ever flown one?
Originally by: Murehz
Just thought I'd point out that this does more damage than your pulse sader... /me runs and hides.
Crusader DPS with 4x medium pulse II, 1x heatsink, conflagration: 177 DPS.
Quote:
Also just as you said a skilled sader pilot can manourver to keep speed up but transversal down... a skilled crow pilot can manourver to keep speed p and transversal up at which point neither can hit the other one and it just becomes a case of who has friends closest.
Well, inty 1v1 is quite pointless with two good pilots. In any case, crow either loses or runs.
28km, even 30km is just not enough at very high speeds.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Murehz
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 16:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Murehz
Just thought I'd point out that this does more damage than your pulse sader... /me runs and hides.
Crusader DPS with 4x medium pulse II, 1x heatsink, conflagration: 177 DPS.
And how will that help you at all vs a crow or any other ship unless you find youself toe to toe with something, in which case, get a blaster ranis.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:04:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Murehz
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Murehz
Just thought I'd point out that this does more damage than your pulse sader... /me runs and hides.
Crusader DPS with 4x medium pulse II, 1x heatsink, conflagration: 177 DPS.
And how will that help you at all vs a crow or any other ship unless you find youself toe to toe with something, in which case, get a blaster ranis.
You can switch the crusader to scorch and get about the same range as the crow with the t2 rage rockets and still 20 more dps.
That rocket crow is not very useful, neither is the sader. Fact is, sader outdamages crow in both speedy config and slower config.
Not to mention the fact that in a 1v1 situation sader can actually do decent damage at speeds over 6km/s.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Murehz
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 17:15:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Murehz
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Murehz
Just thought I'd point out that this does more damage than your pulse sader... /me runs and hides.
Crusader DPS with 4x medium pulse II, 1x heatsink, conflagration: 177 DPS.
And how will that help you at all vs a crow or any other ship unless you find youself toe to toe with something, in which case, get a blaster ranis.
You can switch the crusader to scorch and get about the same range as the crow with the t2 rage rockets and still 20 more dps.
That rocket crow is not very useful, neither is the sader. Fact is, sader outdamages crow in both speedy config and slower config.
Not to mention the fact that in a 1v1 situation sader can actually do decent damage at speeds over 6km/s.
What so you can get 16km range with scorch on a sader?
Also when its hitting that mush going 6km/s its tickling web range and once its webbed the crow will be doing more damage to the sader than the sader will be to the crow.
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Dowey
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:16:00 -
[51]
Crusader
End of...
----------------------------------------------
Can't nerf this, dun dun da dun!!!!
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Murehz
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:20:00 -
[52]
As an aditional note for the crow... nothing but a minmatar recons can kill it solo if its got a smart pilot.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:20:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Murehz
What so you can get 16km range with scorch on a sader?
More like 13-ish km.
Quote:
Also when its hitting that mush going 6km/s its tickling web range and once its webbed the crow will be doing more damage to the sader than the sader will be to the crow.
That's why you never 1v1 in a closerange fitted crusader. Oh and if you ever closerangefit, you use a web ofcourse.
This is irrelevant, you are arguing just for the sake of arguing with me, like always. Rocket crows are out, LMS crows are in.
It's rather pointless to fit ceptor for close range, 1v1 ceptor exists only on forum, and for the rest of time they are used for tackling stuff.
And no, crow with rockets won't work, at high speed you will bump out of range all the time.
If you are going to go that close to webrange you take a taranis, and do what gallente do, gank.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:21:00 -
[54]
Since some of your replies can't be considered proper (counter)arguments but rather attempts to get personal and/or trample my arguments i will just refer to Ad Hominem when it can be applied.
From:
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/Ad+hominem
Ad Hominem
Adjective
1. Appealing to personal considerations (rather than to fact or reason); "ad hominem arguments".
Quote:
Sorry, what was that calculation there?
I wrote and explained in my previous post why I wont post any calculations/setups.
Quote:
This is sig material. "It is so, because I say so, I will not show any proof that it is so, but it is so" bwhahahahaha.
Ad Hominem
Quote:
I think you need to lay off the drugs mate :P
Ad Hominem
Quote:
Well, unles you are invulnerable due to devsploits, the interceptor will have killed you ten times over within that time lol...
I think it was you answered my post, in which i claimed to have killed intys going 5-6km/s, and claimed that:
Quote:
Also, a ceptor doing 6km/s, you can't even hit with precision lights for any damage,
I stated that a crow DOES stand a chance at killing another ceptor which is doing 6km/s, which you rejected due to the "fact" that the crow wouldn't be able to do any damage, and I have backed it up with stats (proof). I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong.
Quote:
QUICKFIT?
Dude, please... do me a favor, and realize that if you bring quickfit into any serious dps comparison you will be laughed out.
Provide proof of your own.
The only proof I need is that IÆve done it several times in-game. I know that doesn't mean much on the forum though.
Quote:
It means that I've flown the crow long enough, that I have no problem putting my 1 billion+ isk pod into it.
You are saying this to get credibility?
What if I say that 1 billion is not even half the cost of my crowsetup + implants?
Do I therefore get more credibility?
Quote:
Nice to alter your statement. You said "without max skills". Also no sane person uses T2 ammo.
If one haven't maxed his skills (short on 1 skill) he haven't maxed out his skillS as a whole.
I believe this is common practice.
And about the T2 ammo, that's your opinion. And I don't agree.
Quote:
Oh so, if you have one 3% skill not maxed, that's consider not max skilled and far from everything, get over yourself.
Well, if you lack warhead upgrades lv 5 you can not be max-skilled in missiledamage.
Or are you the one who decides at what level people can say that they are max skilled?
Again, I've got the impression that when you've trained everything to lv 5 in an area and can't train more to increase the specific attribute, you can say that you are "maxed in this" or "i've got maxed skills in this area".
Quote:
You kinda forget the fact that you need to have spec 5, inty 5 etc.
How did i forget these skills?
Explain please. Don't be so vague.
Quote:
Right. Sorry, but I prefer to stay out of nosrange when I tackle ****. That's what a LMS crow does. It stays out of nos and webrange. And that means 25km+.
Again, we're not discussing T2 ammo and i'm not sure i'd like to discuss it with you, with your sarcastic and patronizing responses, either.
I AM however willing to claim that T2 Highdamage missiles has its role in some solo/pirateengagements.
Quote:
Honestly. You bring the word "stupid" to a whole new high.
Ad Hominem
Quote:
Right. Sorry sir, you are an idiot.
Ad Hominem
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Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:25:00 -
[55]
And btw ryysa. Please refrain from personal insults and ôargumentsö such like it.
I wonder how long your replies will be then.
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Murehz
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:40:00 -
[56]
Why would any other inty beat a crow in a 1 vs 1 situation that never happens anyway.
The other inty has a choice of not hitting the crow and both of them flying around for ever with the crow not hitting the other inty or the other inty webbing the crow, being webbed itself and any inty which can do this and also fit a scam will either be very short range and slower than the crow (ranis), or do less damage than the crow.
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Murehz
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:42:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Murehz
As an aditional note for the crow... nothing but a minmatar recons can kill it solo if its got a smart pilot.
And how doesn't this go for the crusader as well?
It's faster than the crow. In fact this goes for any interceptor pretty much.
Apart from alot of ceptors can be killed by other ceptors, I haven't met a ceptor pilot yet that could down my crow, maybe I just haven't met another good ceptor pilot but w/e.
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Maeltstome
Minmatar
Caldari Navy Raiders
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Murehz
Why would any other inty beat a crow in a 1 vs 1 situation that never happens anyway.
Depends, I float around syndicate and pure blind, i see more than a fwe ceptors out looking for a fight. Sadly it isn't as common as it used to be, since the whole blob warfare thing began just before Rev.
Also my ceptor of choice atm is either Crusader or Stiletto.
P.S.
Malediction is an awesome interceptor, but needs a hybrid of missile and gun and nav and cap skills to make it work effectively.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:46:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 17:50:31
Originally by: Murehz
The other inty has a choice of not hitting the crow and both of them flying around for ever with the crow not hitting the other inty or the other inty webbing the crow, being webbed itself and any inty which can do this and also fit a scam will either be very short range and slower than the crow (ranis), or do less damage than the crow.
Wrong, the other inty has a chance of just doubleclicking in space and if the crow follows having the crow get popped. Or the crow can run away.
Also, as I said, it's pointless to discuss ceptor 1v1, since it doesn't really happen with specific fittings, and few people fit closerange fitting. The few that do, usually go after haulers etc. The rest tends to be longrange...
It's still pretty sad to see that you are arguing with me /just/ for the sake of arguing with me.
Originally by: Murehz
I just haven't met another good ceptor pilot but w/e.
Might be. Also, consider the fact in 1v1 ceptor fights, unless one of the ceptors has web (and crow doesn't tend to fit web) or one of the ceptors is a _lot_ faster then the other, it's a stalemate.
The one reason most people don't fit web on crow, is that crow is kinda pointless for soloing due to low damage. So you'd use something like a taranis instead for ganking haulers. Or stiletto due to abundance of midslots for scrams.
The second reason is that you really shouldn't be going into webrange with a ceptor. Web is /the/ counter for ceptors, going into that range is like signing a death warrant vs anything that has drones or medium sized and smaller guns.
Either way, on topic:
Crow is probably the most noob friendly ceptor and easiest to start with.
Crusader is a lot harder to control properly as you must have a much deeper understanding of turret tracking, however if you learn to fly it properly, it will be much better than a crow.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Maeltstome
Minmatar
Caldari Navy Raiders
Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 17:49:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Murehz
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Murehz
As an aditional note for the crow... nothing but a minmatar recons can kill it solo if its got a smart pilot.
And how doesn't this go for the crusader as well?
It's faster than the crow. In fact this goes for any interceptor pretty much.
Apart from alot of ceptors can be killed by other ceptors, I haven't met a ceptor pilot yet that could down my crow, maybe I just haven't met another good ceptor pilot but w/e.
Maybe they cant kill you, but if they are serious about ceptors i doubt you did anywhere enar enough damage to kill them.
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Goshinko
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:51:00 -
[61]
Mods, please lock this thread. The absolute ownage factor is way too high.
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 17:57:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Goshinko
Mods, please lock this thread. The absolute ownage factor is way too high.
Surely you mean Pure Pwnage?
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 18:06:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Cpt Fina on 10/06/2007 18:08:08
Quote:
You are not worth any replies from me anymore, you are obviously a clear troll with no idea whatsoever.
You are not worth any replies from me anymore, you are obviously a clear troll with no idea whatsoever.
Quote:
I also clearly pointed out why a crow will not stand a chance in 1v1 vs a proper inty, how your DPS calculations were off by a factor of 3(!)
You claimed that the crow's inability to deal any damage is one of the reason why it can't hold its own in a 1v1 intyfight. I claimed the opposite.
I am however the only one who've presented any hard facts that speak for my statement.
Quote:
your DPS calculations were off by a factor of 3(!),
I thought it was kind of obvious that I was merely giving an answer to your;
Quote:
Just fyi, Light Missile crow does a whopping 37 DPS.
statement. I said that a crow without any damagemods/rigs could do 55 dps. Not that 55 dps was the maximum dps you could get from a Crow.
Do you fail to see this or is equivocation something you commonly use when arguing?
Quote:
I'm done wasting my time on you. The people who read this thread will most likely also see why.
Sadly this is probably true. You've got some kind of "expert"-label and I fear that people prefer to see you win this argument and thus fail to look at this in an impartial way.
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 18:25:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 18:29:45
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Sadly this is probably true. You've got some kind of "expert"-label and I fear that people prefer to see you win this argument and thus fail to look at this in an impartial way.
No, what I say just follows logic :)
Oh and btw...
clicky.
Quote:
Quote:
As I claimed before, a crow with precision light missiles can do enough damage to kill another interceptor going 6km/s within a couple of minutes or less.
Well, unless you are invulnerable due to devsploits, the interceptor will have killed you ten times over within that time lol...
I rest my case.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Zixxa
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 18:46:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Murehz
Why would any other inty beat a crow in a 1 vs 1 situation that never happens anyway.
It does happen.
---------------------------------
Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh
Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS.
R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven>
R.I.P. <Eagle>
R.I.P. <ECM>
R.I.P. <Drake>
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Rudy Metallo
Crimson Squall
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:48:00 -
[66]
Any ceptor can kill any other ceptor.
Any BS can kill any other BS.
Any AF can kill any other AF.
Th ship does not make the kill. The pilot and his skills, both literal and experience-wise, do.
This topic is null and void. No pun intended.
Say what? |
Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 18:56:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Rudy Metallo
Any ceptor can kill any other ceptor.
Any BS can kill any other BS.
Any AF can kill any other AF.
Th ship does not make the kill. The pilot and his skills, both literal and experience-wise, do.
This topic is null and void. No pun intended.
Well, I'd dare to say that for example, a vagabond would have to screw up really hard to lose to a deimos.
But yes, in case of inties specifically, I agree ;)
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Murehz
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 18:57:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Murehz on 10/06/2007 18:57:14
For all those people who failed to see what I was getting at in my post about 1 vs 1's that don't happen please read the rest of the thread and if you still don't understand then go away.
Also Ryysa I'm not arguing with you for the sake of arguing with you any more than you are.
As you have said a good t1 frig can tank a crow until it gets to the gate, that good t1 frig can also tank a sader until it gets to the gate. (sader is no better than crow)
A sader will never kill another good inty pilot 1 vs 1, neither will a crow. (sader is no better than crow)
A sader with good skills and pulses may be able to kill other ships apart from ceptors and haulers although it would be prtety suicidal to try and a ranis could do it better (if you're going that close to web range just get it over and done with, charge in and gank them).
A crow may be able to kill other ships with rockets, It is less suicidal. (crow is better than a sader here imo but not by far)
A sader can tackle from long distance whilst doing such little damage that the target prob won't even notice, so can the crow although sader is a bit faster. (sader is better than crow here although not by far)
There, all the facts as everyone has said in this thread in 1 nice post.
Conclusion - all round sader and crow are equal, now everyone unless you are going to argue the viability of the other ceptors against each other or these 2 please shut the feck up and go home.
P.S. I love having a web on my crow, it can prove very useful in certain situations.
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Maeltstome
Minmatar
Caldari Navy Raiders
Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 19:02:00 -
[69]
So many people are posting in this with what seems like little to no experience in real ceptor PVP :S
I think this thread highlights why hardly anyone uses the ships and modules forum for advice.
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 19:06:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 19:05:39
Originally by: Murehz
Stuff
Nice summary.
There is one thing I disagree with you with, it's a matter of how can I say, test cases.
Crow vs 6km/s+ turret inty...
1. Crow dies or...
2. Crow warps out.
While turret inty:
1. Wins or...
2. Makes opponent flee.
So there, sader > crow in that regard. All other points I agree with.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Murehz
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 19:10:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Murehz on 10/06/2007 19:09:54
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/06/2007 19:05:39
Originally by: Murehz
Stuff
Nice summary.
There is one thing I disagree with you with, it's a matter of how can I say, test cases.
Crow vs 6km/s+ turret inty...
1. Crow dies or...
2. Crow warps out.
While turret inty:
1. Wins or...
2. Reaches a stalemate.
So there, sader > crow in that regard. All other points I agree with.
Fixed IMO.
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Ryysa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 19:13:00 -
[72]
How does it reach a stalemate?
If it flies in straight line, and crow follows, crow dies, so it can't kill it.
If crow flies away in straight line, and it follows it, crow dies.
There is no way for crow to win the fight, while there is a way for the turret inty to win the fight.
That makes it 1:0 for the turret inty...
This is kinda basic logic.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
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