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DeckardIRL Bombshell Cartel	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:03:00 - [31] The T20 incident is the only thing you can complain about here. The rest is pure whine whine whine. Get over yourself. Deck
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:05:00 - [32] Quote: 7) POS bowling being ruled as an explint within 24 hours of Goonswarm aquiring their first supercap ship. This is a bold face lie... BoB was told it was an Exploit, somebody else was told it wasn't. Only after BoB experienced somebody using the same "exploit" did they start using it again. Granted it was "ruled" an exploit after BoB experienced lost something of great value, but its doubtful thats the reason why. There was a discussion on the subject, and people brought up good points, and CCP decided most likely at that time it was an exploit. BoB lost stuff to what is now an exploit, so just because it was changed to an exploit after "Cry Wolf" Squad built something doesn't prove a damn thing. Go back under your rock, and shut the heck up, because your not helping anyone. Regards to BoB having control over alot of new regions, "Cry Wolf" Squad didn't defend those locations clearly. Quote: 9) CCP both condones TS spying and allows its employees to join player organizations that make no secret that they engage in this practice (which is illegal). Prove that this happens and its illegal if it does happen ( which has not been proven ). I want to see the LAW in writting word for word where it says that that practice is legal. It doesn't exist, because CCP is a private company and they can do whatever they feel like within their product. Anything that effects currency, or object made out of real materials is under the protection of laws. Quote: 8) Rumored disproportionate disciplinary actions taken by GM's, specifically that BoB members were allowed to account share while other alliances had members banned for the same practices. oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=535208 Your using a rumor, and a link that doesn't work, doesn't prove a thing. At this point I have proven 3 of your 9 points to be false, I think I will continue to prove you wrong. Quote: 2) The TenTon Hammer interview of Magnus, CCP's CEO sounds like a Blacklight alt oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=535165 His statement is a logical reaction to a very close issue ( the reputation of CCP ) so I see nothing wrong with it. Quote: 3) Broken trade routes in 0.0 allowing BoB to generate 2.2B a day http:// oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=534459 What exactly did "BoB" do wrong, they saw a chance to make money and they used it, using the game itself. Perhaps they should have reported it, and I hope they did, but if CCP didn't fix it right away then it must have not been a big deal. I am sure others have "used" similar market quirks in the past, so place BoB in the "cheating" light for making money when others didn't. Quote: 6) CCP ssystem cap prohibting the D2 support fleet from jump bridging in during the battle of F-T (The support fleet would have brought the system over the unanounced cap). Linkageoldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=499356 Yep CCP are fools, they should have let the node crash, so nobody could have played. Quote: 4) The introduction of bugged 10/10 complexes on continous respawn on BoB space. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=501521 They removed the complexes from BoB space, go find something else to miss state the facts. Quote: 1) The T20 incident. myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=424 3) Broken trade routes in 0.0 allowing BoB to generate 2.2B a day http:// oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=534459 The above quoted text should never have happen. Using your own reasoning, "Now one of even two of the above could be excused", everything as now been excused. I am not in an alliance I just wait the "Cry Wolf" Squad aka Goon Squad because they don't tell the old truth by holding back facts.
Vana Gank Gallente Nosferatu Security Foundation	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:06:00 - [33] @OP If you dont like the company, just leave If you dont like the game, just leave The rest that deosn't bother about all these things, true or false will keep on playing. And you can't change that. -------------------------- Please adjust the map, please. Im not clever enough to figure out which way to fly.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:08:00 - [34] Ok I'll bite. 1. Done to death, everyone agrees it could have been handled better by CCP. However, it was one CCP employee missbehaving and was no reflection on any other BoB member whatsoever. If you seriously believe that those half a dozen bpo's have had anything other than a miniscule impact on our progress within Eve then you are very wrong indeed, compared to our otherwise massive list of T2 and capital bpos it was a drop in the ocean. A disgraceful affair admittedly but it was no reflection on the other members of our alliance in the slightest. 2. You do realise Magnus is not CCP's CEO don't you? It's kind of important to be 100% sure of your facts when posting accusations like this thread. Magnus seems like a pretty smart guy though, thanks for equating me with him. 3. Those trade routes are available to anyone, the issue is that NPC trade goods can be highly profitable it has nothing to do with BoB at all other than the fact we're smart enough to utilise all the tools CCP has made available to everyone who plays Eve. If you're unhappy with game mechanics then by all means use the correct vehicle to raise your concerns but don't lay the blame for CCP's design decisions at our door. 4. Delve had no 10/10 complexes at all, so when more complexes were added globally Delve got a couple, they were bugged and dropped nothing of value at all to begin with and we didn't run them because of that, the bug was petitioned, the fix to the original bug broke them further in that they were then too valuable, they were petitioned again with the result that they were removed and never reinstated. BoB got little to no benefit from those 10/10s in Delve at all. 5. The roids in Delve are pretty average, there are far better regions if you want to mine, Fountain for starters and for that matter I always preferred Branch for seriously carebearing it up in the belts there was certainly no roid humping euphoria within BoB following Exodus, you are frankly just making that up. Delve never had complexes higher than a 6/10 and those were significantly less profitable than the 8/10 and 10/10 complexes that Delve didn't have, no special favours for us there either. 6. Thats just laughable. Local never got up near the alleged 700 person cap anyway and anyone with more brains than tinfoil in the region of their head would realise that bringing several thousand players to attack one system was always going to end in tears. There's no conspiracy at work in determining that such a large number of players attempting to move to one system (not to mention the hundreds and thousands in surrounding systems) was going to cause massive lag and node stability issues therefore always putting at risk the feasibility of any kind of fight occuring let alone one with that number of people. 7. It's been said before often enough, we didn't do it first, we stopped when we were asked too, when -A- started doing it again we checked with a GM and were told it wasn't an exploit so we started doing it again and finally when someone at CCP worked out that this is an utterly ridiculous method of gameplay they finally put a stop to it. For sure you can criticise them for inconsistent handling of the issue and allowing it at any point but looking for a conspiracy against Goons when it was two of their allies most guilty of propogating the tactic is rather silly indeed. 8. Rumours, you should pay attention to facts and not listen to everything you hear or read just because it tallies with what you would like to believe. Blog
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:08:00 - [35] 9. Internet lawyers unite, I'm not getting into whether it's legal or not (although I am laughing at you for bringing that up). However, CCP have said they want their employees to participate in the game so of course they will end up in lots of different organisations. Spying is a part of Eve, whether you like it or not that will never change. Sort out your corporations security if you don't want people on your TS who are spies or accept the risk and move on. Attempting to score a point against CCP with this particular issue is a rather weak gambit that holds no water whatsoever. I can absolutely guarantee that there was spying in Eve long before BoB as an entity was created and before some of our corporations had even met in game, let alone started working together. Originally by: Johana Walker Which brings us to where we are today. http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/CRII/Latest.jpg BoB started in the north of Eve with about 800 accounts, it's taken a lot of dedicated and honest gamers two years to grow the organisation to 2800 accounts and holding all that space. Hard work, effort, good leadership, coordination and an ungodly amount of fun has taken us to where we got today, nothing more and nothing less. Originally by: Johana Walker Or as one coallition leader put it in a deleted post, everybody is hanging trying to hang on and hope that the game mechanics pendulem swings back against BoB with Rev 2.0. The coalition leadership has had every chance to succeed in game and have to date failed, game mechanics have no impact on this, we are all playing on the same server with the same mechanics, if we succeed and they fail waiting for the next expansion won't help the coalition, CYVOK thought the next expansion would save ASCN it didn't. More effort in game, less whining on the forums leads to success not the other way around. So in summary, you dragged up some old stuff that everyone agrees was bad, you made up or repeated some stuff you'd heard about that could paint BoB and/or CCP in a bad light and finally you included some really weak arguments. Your attempted flame/troll bait fails. Blog
Kraven Kor Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:08:00 - [36] Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 12/06/2007 16:00:02 keep on saying it, it will come true! keep on saying it, it will come true! keep on saying it, it will come true! dbp Is it working for you yet? ----- You're not what you are, you're just what you do! So it ends with their butts and it starts with your shoe! - Awesome Car Fun Maker
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Kraven Kor Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 12/06/2007 16:00:02 keep on saying it, it will come true! keep on saying it, it will come true! keep on saying it, it will come true! dbp Is it working for you yet? No more than the failed effort to fill these forums with crappy allegations is working for the tinfoil merchants ;) dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:23:00 - [38] Edited by: Death Kill on 12/06/2007 17:22:54 Originally by: Blacklight Ok I'll bite. Typing 'ok I'll bite' doesnt give you any credabilaty. Insteads you should write : 'I know my alliance is known for cheating and bad behaviour (after all we absorbed ATUK enough said!) but we are really innocent allthough evidence says othwerwise. In the credabilaty bank, BOB's account balance is currently -100.
Johana Walker Lonestar Squadron	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:33:00 - [39] Edited by: Johana Walker on 12/06/2007 17:36:48 Originally by: WhitePhantom Quote: 9) CCP both condones TS spying and allows its employees to join player organizations that make no secret that they engage in this practice (which is illegal). Prove that this happens and its illegal if it does happen ( which has not been proven ). I want to see the LAW in writting word for word where it says that that practice is legal. It doesn't exist, because CCP is a private company and they can do whatever they feel like within their product. Anything that effects currency, or object made out of real materials is under the protection of laws. (4) knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a protected computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access, and by means of such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains anything of value, unless the object of the fraud and the thing obtained consists only of the use of the computer and the value of such use is not more than $5,000 in any 1-year period; http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=477394 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=445436 BTW "thing of value" dosn't mean that you are the owner of it. Hence the phrasing. If you're wondering if you should pack more weapons or makeup always pack the weapons. The fact that you're asking the question shows that you're going to need the weapons more.
AegriSomnia Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:41:00 - [40] Originally by: Blacklight BoB started in the north of Eve with about 800 accounts, it's taken a lot of dedicated and honest gamers two years to grow the organisation to 2800 accounts and holding all that space. Its funny that your CEO doesnt know how many members BoB has. Last I checked you guys were at 2300 and change. Maybe in a week you guys got another 500 members, or maybe you just added more alts, who knows. Originally by: grayson 34 Thank you for yall's advice, and a special thanks to AegriSomnia for reminding me that there are still ***holes in the world.
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:46:00 - [41] Originally by: Johana Walker Edited by: Johana Walker on 12/06/2007 17:36:48 Originally by: WhitePhantom Quote: 9) CCP both condones TS spying and allows its employees to join player organizations that make no secret that they engage in this practice (which is illegal). Prove that this happens and its illegal if it does happen ( which has not been proven ). I want to see the LAW in writting word for word where it says that that practice is legal. It doesn't exist, because CCP is a private company and they can do whatever they feel like within their product. Anything that effects currency, or object made out of real materials is under the protection of laws. (4) knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a protected computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access, and by means of such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains anything of value, unless the object of the fraud and the thing obtained consists only of the use of the computer and the value of such use is not more than $5,000 in any 1-year period; http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=477394 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=445436 BTW "thing of value" dosn't mean that you are the owner of it. Hence the phrasing. link court ruleing over game spying or go away. if you cant find any see if you pay to get a court rulling oh and the laws in the us sucks balls Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Ling Xiao Prism Project Technologies	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:48:00 - [42] 2 measly pages? Come on hurry up. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing?
Hogan Hulk	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:50:00 - [43] Can't beat them? Whine, whine, whine and whine some more? Quit the game already.
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:51:00 - [44] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/06/2007 16:03:51 Originally by: Johana Walker 4) The introduction of bugged 10/10 complexes on continous respawn on BoB space. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=501521 5) The addition of a disporportionate number of complexes and high value roid belts added to Delve back in Exodus. Are you crazy? The 10/10s were removed permanently, leaving BoB the only major alliance in the game with no 10/10 complexes in their home territory. RA, on the other hand, has boatloads. And come on, Delve doesn't even have Arkonor IIRC. And rightfully so, personally I think you got off too easy.
RossP Zoyka	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:52:00 - [45] Originally by: Wixxs Edited by: Wixxs on 12/06/2007 16:56:39 Originally by: Agent Li To a player who has been in game seven months, I note that even if all of the BoB stories were absolutely 100% true, none of it would have made a bit of difference in my gameplay to this point. Zero. Nada. Zip. It probably won't make any difference or have any effect what-so-ever on most of the playerbase since the vast majority of them have no interest in 0.0 politics and prefare being empire dwellers. But for anyone joining the game and somewhere down the line wanting to expand their horizons into the 0.0 aspect, the seeds of doubt in regards to CCP favoritism and BoB cheating will forever linger. Is the deck stacked against me before I even try? will be the question in the back of everyones mind. Any hopes of CCP wanting people out of empire and into 0.0 has been severely kicked in the teeth. So in that respect it doesn't matter if the allegations are true or not, that seed of doubt is well and truly planted..... just look at the discussions going on in various gaming sites. Me and my corp have moved to delve and are all doing just fine (avoiding BoB and making money) and the "is the game stacked against us blah blah" has never entered any of our minds. Never Ever. We just play man. BoB blobs around all damn day and who cares? Their killboard is sweet lately though, I'm impressed.
Johana Walker Lonestar Squadron	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:53:00 - [46] Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: Johana Walker Edited by: Johana Walker on 12/06/2007 17:36:48 Originally by: WhitePhantom Quote: 9) CCP both condones TS spying and allows its employees to join player organizations that make no secret that they engage in this practice (which is illegal). Prove that this happens and its illegal if it does happen ( which has not been proven ). I want to see the LAW in writting word for word where it says that that practice is legal. It doesn't exist, because CCP is a private company and they can do whatever they feel like within their product. Anything that effects currency, or object made out of real materials is under the protection of laws. (4) knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a protected computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access, and by means of such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains anything of value, unless the object of the fraud and the thing obtained consists only of the use of the computer and the value of such use is not more than $5,000 in any 1-year period; http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=477394 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=445436 BTW "thing of value" dosn't mean that you are the owner of it. Hence the phrasing. link court ruleing over game spying or go away. if you cant find any see if you pay to get a court rulling oh and the laws in the us sucks balls Most US court rulings aren't publically available, only appellant cases are (and some rulings of law in federal district court cases). Tbh the only case I know about a prosecution being initiated for TS spying comes from Europe: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=481258 If you're wondering if you should pack more weapons or makeup always pack the weapons. The fact that you're asking the question shows that you're going to need the weapons more.
AegriSomnia Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:55:00 - [47] Originally by: Lilan Kahn link court ruleing over game spying or go away. if you cant find any see if you pay to get a court rulling oh and the laws in the us sucks balls You dont have to link to a court ruling to prove a case. Linking to court rulings only help to show a precident when you are trying to prove a similar case in court. Lawyers only have to prove that a statute or law exists and that the actions are in violation of that law, thus the definition of a crime. IE, you dont have to submit the rulings in a past murder case to convict someone for shooting people in the face. A lawyer you obviously, are not. And the laws in your country are that much better? In fact, I argue that it is not the "law" that sucks balls, but the circus that has become of our court system, ie lawyers and judges stretching for convictions, plea barganing, and outright corruption. Its not the "law"s fault its being abused. Originally by: grayson 34 Thank you for yall's advice, and a special thanks to AegriSomnia for reminding me that there are still ***holes in the world.
Angelonico Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:02:00 - [48] Good post. Now I get to smile at all the bobbits and fanbois who try to laugh this off. Your reputation is permanently damaged. Get over it. DBP
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:06:00 - [49] Originally by: Clorthos Originally by: Dark Shikari Are you crazy? The 10/10s were removed permanently, leaving BoB the only major alliance in the game with no 10/10 complexes in their home territory. RA, on the other hand, has boatloads. And come on, Delve doesn't even have Arkonor IIRC. move to the drone regions there are not even 1/10 plexes via exploration sites out here, we do get hidden roid belts from time to time but guess what they are broke like the regular roids in the belts. TTFN Yeah, the new regions are a bit screwed up tbh 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Gemmi Onyc	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:14:00 - [50] Originally by: Blacklight BoB got little to no benefit from those 10/10s in Delve at all. Yeah sure we're going to take your word for it. Originally by: Blacklight finally when someone at CCP worked out that this is an utterly ridiculous method of gameplay they finally put a stop to it. Emphasis on finally, the only decent thing you said.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:15:00 - [51] Originally by: Blacklight 2. Magnus seems like a pretty smart guy though, thanks for equating me with him. Irony? In the interview he sounded far from being smart. And the accusations against Goonswarm were WAY out of any professional behaviour. Why? Even if a few of the 4000 goonswarm members were really out to hurt CCP and were not only upset about favourism, even then it is 100% wrong to take make the whole rest of their members responsible for these actions of a few. With the same reasoning it is perfectly fine then to say that ALL CCP is corrupt and cheating only because ONE of them did so. You can't claim to decide on cases only and then on the other hand condemn a whole group for the behaviour of a members. Also the other stuff which was in the interview, well, it was not really high quality. Originally by: Blacklight 3. Those trade routes... True, but no one else has titans ready for trading. Well, not that it is an exploit or anything and BoB is quite clever using this source of income, no doubt. Actually I would do the same if I could. But that doesn't mean that it is all fine in sense of game balance. I hope CCP will fix the NPC market soon that you cannot earn billions such easily day for day. The price reset every day is just stupid. Originally by: Blacklight 4. Delve had no 10/10 complexes at all ... they were bugged and dropped nothing of value at all to begin with ... the bug was petitioned, the fix to the original bug broke them further in that they were then too valuable ... they were petitioned again Erm, the complexes did get removed a few weeks ago. (after DS made a big wooh-hooo on the forums, and as far as I know he is not a bob member). And when got Delve those complexes? How many months and years ago? What happend in all the time from 'fixing' those complexes so that they generated insane amounts of isk and the recent removal? The whole procedure was not such easy and smooth as you describe it, it stinks quite a lot (not that other things at other alliances don't stink also, but that is not the point here). Conclusion, the op is right that there are lots of things around here. But why bother it? It is all known and doesn't help. Make some constructive posts how to prevent cheating in the future! Think about mechanisms and such. THAT would help much more than repeating known things over and over.
Richard Aiel Caldari The Funkstars Guild	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:16:00 - [52] Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 12/06/2007 16:00:02 keep on saying it, it will come true! keep on saying it, it will come true! keep on saying it, it will come true! dbp This guys in goonswarm? Nice to see yer taking yer own advice at least "keep on saying it, it will come true!" It cuts both ways you know lol I cant put anything here Im A troublemaker
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:18:00 - [53] Points to his signature ____________ Dark Shikari> If at first you don't succeed, whine about t20.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:19:00 - [54] Look Mom! I'm in a B0dccpHaXspl0it thread!!! - sig designer - eve mail
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:19:00 - [55] Originally by: Blacklight BoB started in the north of Eve with about 800 accounts, it's taken a lot of dedicated and honest gamers two years to grow the organisation to 2800 accounts and holding all that space. That is what I always wonder about. Why don't those honest and hard working people not just throw out cheaters and try to clean/keep clean the name of BoB? Why was there no alliance/leadership cleaning after the t20 incident and all?? A few bad people just spoil all the reputation of BoB and ruin so some good fun of the average BoB member.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:21:00 - [56] Originally by: Angelonico Good post. Now I get to smile at all the bobbits and fanbois who try to laugh this off. Your reputation is permanently damaged. Get over it. DBP Took a while for the rest of the goons to show up. Writing about damaged reputations and you're in goonswarm... You do realise you got sent off to the damned corner for a ****ty reputation on the forum you derive your name from, right? That's by your peers, imagine what the EVE community thinks of you.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:25:00 - [57] all your thread are belong to BoB Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:25:00 - [58] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Blacklight BoB started in the north of Eve with about 800 accounts, it's taken a lot of dedicated and honest gamers two years to grow the organisation to 2800 accounts and holding all that space. That is what I always wonder about. Why don't those honest and hard working people not just throw out cheaters and try to clean/keep clean the name of BoB? Why was there no alliance/leadership cleaning after the t20 incident and all?? A few bad people just spoil all the reputation of BoB and ruin so some good fun of the average BoB member. I'm sure the BoB Ceo's have taken your words of wisdom into consideration and placed then alongside the rest of your gems of accusations. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:29:00 - [59] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Angelonico Good post. Now I get to smile at all the bobbits and fanbois who try to laugh this off. Your reputation is permanently damaged. Get over it. DBP Took a while for the rest of the goons to show up. Writing about damaged reputations and you're in goonswarm... You do realise you got sent off to the damned corner for a ****ty reputation on the forum you derive your name from, right? That's by your peers, imagine what the EVE community thinks of you. Them being the lesser of two evils? Also Known As
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:29:00 - [60] lesser of two evils? Come on infod is way better than the goons Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.

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