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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:08:00 -
[1]
Probably most of you have already 15 or 20 million sp and have forgotten about 30 minutes skills. If you are at that point, 2 or 3 hours of lost skill training due to server injuries wont do much harm to you, and wont make you think about leaving the game. Also, you will have plenty of long skills to set for nightime or busy work/study days.
But there are new players trying the game everyday, and when your longest skill is for 2.5 hours, it is quite deceiving to see that no matter how you do it, you will miss training time during nightime or work hours. Also, it will happen that on a few days you will have several almost complete skills, which you'll have use to train during long periods of time and you will find yourself unable to finally finish them off. Yes, it happened to me. more than 15 skills at level 4, and 89% of progress to level 5, and then, when they only need 5 more hours of training you are **** off again.
Players do not have 24 hours a day to play, and it is not unusual to be unable to log in during 2 or 3 days (because of work/studies/family). For us, 20 million sp players, that is not a problem. we set Cruiser 5 to train and all is well, and if it ever ends, then we'll be ready for Battlecruisers 5.
But when a new player is unable to log in for 3 days, he will miss many hours of training, and more important, if he is not able to log in very regularly, he will be unable to really follow a logical and optimal training path (not talking about maximizing sp/minute, but about reaching a goal like flying interceptors, or mining barges)
Yes, CCP want us to log in and play the game. CCP do not want to facilitate even more training accounts to ebayers. That is why CCP has repeated over and over again that there will NEVER EVER be a training queue. i think i even have 2 or 3 devs bookmarked promissing that.
well, it seems that NEVER EVER is not such a long time, as can be read on the "In the Drawingboard" section:
"Skill Training - Queue or Dual training
This could enable players to either queue skills so that when one level finishes the next level in that skill starts training automatically, or another preset skill starts training automatically. Dual training would enable you to have a primary long-term skill in training with a secondary short-term skill sharing the training time. After a level in the secondary skill has trained, the primary skill trains at full speed again."
Well, i am not here to point at CCP for not keeping their word. Rather i want to encourage them to give a push to this much needed feature. i dont think it needs a lot of developing or testing time.
For those who think that a 1-skill-queue would make people log in half the times and it would lead to the death of the game, lets put an example.
Nowadays, whenever a skill is ready to finish i need to log in, wait till it finish and set a new skill. At the end, to train for 100 skills, i would have to log in 100 times, and as a side efect, i would be very vulnerable to server or real life issues everytime a skill is near to completion.
Now, throw in a 1-skill queue. i log in and set my current training skill and the queued skill, which will start training once the current skill finishes. I log out.
Then, after some hours/days, the first skill finishes and the queued skill begins training. somewhere before this queued skill completes, i log in, and set a new queued skill, which will start training when the current skill (the former queued skill) completes. I log out.
If we press "FF" till the 100th skill, it turns out we'll have logged in 99 times, instead of 100. For a single login, we would have won near inmunity to server and real life issues, and at the same time we would have made very much easier the first weeks of new players.
I dont think there is any reason to not consider this option as superior to what we have now, unless CCP really want players to loose trainning time and upset new players.
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LillaRinn
Sons of Gehenna
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:37:00 -
[2]
Indeed, my new-character friends would indeed be grateful if this was implemented.
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Join channel: Lai Dai Innovations Bringing ♥ to Production and Science |
Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:37:00 -
[3]
rev 3.0 i hear around october
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Zhett Haukes
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:43:00 -
[4]
Having just started an alt who has lots of tiny skills to train, I would love this.
I had sort of given up hoping though.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:49:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Callthetruth rev 3.0 i hear around october
Lol, dream on --------
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LiLMissy
Caldari Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:12:00 -
[6]
Gosh - that would be lovely !
I hate it when my skill ends at 1am. Then starting up computer before work, wife agro because Im an idiot that just HAS to logon at 7am. Kinda iritating, especaly for those lvl 1-3 skills - that I have about milion infront of me ....
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Callthetruth rev 3.0 i hear around october
Don't think so. Still on the drawing board to keep the endless itch raw.
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:39:00 -
[8]
It's a standing feature request since Eve first launched, eg: Skill Queuing - Dated 30/7/2003.
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Cotton Tail
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:44:00 -
[9]
It will be a nice feature to have and I'm all for it.
But the issue that it would fix is a stupid one. People are far to obsessed with maximising training time. I refuse to get up at 3am just to train a skill. I do change them around to make skill times end at my chosen playtimes, but losing 12 hours of training isn't a big deal in the end. New players wouldn't mind losing the time so much if the older players weren't constantly whining about how important it is to build your lifes around changing skills.
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:45:00 -
[10]
bah....
there's almost always an older skill to be trained, if only as a 'will need that in 6 months time' filler to anticipate a long weekend/chance encounter with a hot blond for the weekend/etc. Frankly, if a hot blond takes up your time, WTF... why is anyone complaining about an internet space game? Also, one or two days really doesn't matter... over 2 years??? LOL... might as well complain that you didn't put in some +4's instead of +3's when you took your 2 week vacation with your girlfriend... If someone has NO higher skills to train that last beyond 12 hours, can't log in for a day or two, and quits...those people would never last in Eve, anyways... imagine when they faced having to mine for their first BS or get all their crappy frigs blown up trying to learn pvp.... If they have THAT poor of a perspective, Eve is not for them.
A queue would be nice, but it's hardly the end of the world if we don't get it.
LOL,I tried Silk Road for a week.. pure XP GRIND.... made me scream when after turning in a low-%-drop item times 60 quest immediately sent me back for the same drop, but 200 of the stupid things.... that's when I rejoiced for Eve ;))))) (and deleted Silk Road).
Eve is not other games... keep it that way.
Originally by: Sc0rpion I'm sorry, I could have sworn you just told them to stop patching the test server. Perhaps you could suggest another method of testing patches?
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mr Friendly Also, one or two days really doesn't matter... over 2 years???
Problem is it's every week not every year. You do have to be obsessive to keep the lost time to a couple days in a year.
And it's paid for training time - maybe people expect to get what they've paid for.
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Ralara
Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:07:00 -
[12]
Quote: Probably most of you have already 15 or 20 million sp and have forgotten about 30 minutes skills.
You mean rank 5 and 6s?
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Thelma Price
Karwal Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Callthetruth rev 3.0 i hear around october
and they always fall into this trap .. they didn't say which year, so probably october 2010 or so :)
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Ralara
Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
And it's paid for training time
No it is not.
Just set another skill going.
Current skill going to finish in 4 hours whilst you are alseep? Pick one that will last 2 weeks.
After 2 days of playing eve you should have at least access to 1 or more level 5 skills, certainly on character creation you end up with level 4 in several areas - just set level 5 training on, say, racial frigate, missile launcher operation or gunnery or something.
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
And it's paid for training time
No it is not.
Just set another skill going.
Huh? That is paid for. How can you say it's not?
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Mashie Saldana
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:34:00 -
[16]
A 12h skill buffer that you could fill up with multiple short/partial skills would be great. But as that isn't an option you better get used to evemon and doing partial skills now and then.
The way I deal with skills is quite simple (been a while since I had to do a lot of short ones though). Skills with 9+h remaining start before work, skills with 7+h remaining start before going to bed. Skills shorter than 7h start after work and change before going to bed. You will end up with a few skills in progress but you will not waste any training time.
We're sorry, something happened.
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Ralara
Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
And it's paid for training time
No it is not.
Just set another skill going.
Huh? That is paid for. How can you say it's not?
Game time is paid for. Not skill time. You can train skills during game time, but you're not paying for skill training time. If you CHOOSE to train skills (generally, it's a good idea, of course) that's up to you. But you aren't paying your subscription to train skills, you're paying to access the sever.
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Vasiliyan
The Flying Swan
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Posted - 2007.06.14 13:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ralara
Game time is paid for. Not skill time. You can train skills during game time, but you're not paying for skill training time. If you CHOOSE to train skills (generally, it's a good idea, of course) that's up to you. But you aren't paying your subscription to train skills, you're paying to access the sever.
If we're going to be stupidly pedantic about this, you're paying to access the server when it happens to be up, and for it to have persistent data on it across sessions. I think skills and their training constitute an important part of that persistence.
Just give us the queue of depth 1 and it'll be so much easier. Like instas/WTZ, there was a huge amount of complaining in both directions until CCP gave in and decided to level the playing field there. Now hardly anyone complains.
Even an automatic rollover to something chosen for you would be better than the current situation.
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 15:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mr Friendly bah....
there's almost always an older skill to be trained, if only as a 'will need that in 6 months time' filler to anticipate a long weekend/chance encounter with a hot blond for the weekend/etc. Frankly, if a hot blond takes up your time, WTF... why is anyone complaining about an internet space game? Also, one or two days really doesn't matter... over 2 years??? LOL... might as well complain that you didn't put in some +4's instead of +3's when you took your 2 week vacation with your girlfriend... If someone has NO higher skills to train that last beyond 12 hours, can't log in for a day or two, and quits...those people would never last in Eve, anyways... imagine when they faced having to mine for their first BS or get all their crappy frigs blown up trying to learn pvp.... If they have THAT poor of a perspective, Eve is not for them.
A queue would be nice, but it's hardly the end of the world if we don't get it. LOL,I tried Silk Road for a week.. pure XP GRIND.... made me scream when after turning in a low-%-drop item times 60 quest immediately sent me back for the same drop, but 200 of the stupid things.... that's when I rejoiced for Eve ;))))) (and deleted Silk Road).
Eve is not other games... keep it that way.
i disagree. i have been playing EVE for 2 years now, and if i keep playing is because of one single feature: autorepeat. i know that if i had to press F1-F2-F3... everytime i wanted to shoot everyone of my guns i would not be playing EVE.
if i had to be clicking on the hardeners everytime i saw a missile heading for me, i know for sure i wouldnt be playing EVE.
Now, you can say that makes me a weak player and that i do not deserve to play this game, that EVE is only for real men. well, maybe.
i know i love this game, and i think that just by having a single skill queue many more new players would keep on playing and would get to love this game too. i dont think that wanting a litle bit of an easier time during the first weeks is not something to be ashamed about, even less with a game so deep, complex and overhelming as EVE Online.
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Kruel
Save our Souls
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Posted - 2007.06.14 16:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zhett Haukes Having just started an alt who has lots of tiny skills to train, I would love this.
Same here. I find myself training skills I don't really need at the moment just so that I have something training while I work/sleep.
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.06.14 16:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cotton Tail
People are far to obsessed with maximising training time. I refuse to get up at 3am just to train a skill. I do change them around to make skill times end at my chosen playtimes, but losing 12 hours of training isn't a big deal in the end. New players wouldn't mind losing the time so much if the older players weren't constantly whining about how important it is to build your lifes around changing skills.
QFT
So you lose a few hours, big whoop.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.14 16:21:00 -
[22]
A skill queue would be a feature that is fairly easy to implement and would make a lot of people happy.
Ironically, that is exactly the reason why it won't happen anytime soon.
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AegriSomnia
Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.14 16:34:00 -
[23]
It really isnt THAT hard to manage a skill plan, a lot of it has to do with staying focused and remaining disciplined. If you have 4-5 skills at 89% to level 5, why not just finish the job?
I would like to see something like the system that WoW has. When you are offline and not training any skills, it builds up a "double-time" account, so that when you log back in and start training a skill, it trains at double time, but only for the amount of time you were not training a skill.
Originally by: grayson 34 Thank you for yall's advice, and a special thanks to AegriSomnia for reminding me that there are still ***holes in the world.
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Ralara
Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Vasiliyan
Originally by: Ralara
Game time is paid for. Not skill time. You can train skills during game time, but you're not paying for skill training time. If you CHOOSE to train skills (generally, it's a good idea, of course) that's up to you. But you aren't paying your subscription to train skills, you're paying to access the sever.
If we're going to be stupidly pedantic about this, you're paying to access the server when it happens to be up, and for it to have persistent data on it across sessions. I think skills and their training constitute an important part of that persistence.
So do I. But you're not paying to skill train, it is illogical to demand queues or similar because we "are paying for skill time".
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Sathamarid
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:39:00 -
[25]
It sounds nice. Doubt it will happen. If you can't find a skill to train (that you need eventually) that takes longer than 2 days you aren't looking very hard.
The queue would be great. I think it should have 3 skills in it, that would let me set up a Lv1 - Lv3 skill to train between one night and the next, which would be super handy. I support this idea really. But I don't think they're gonna do it.
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Nicho Void
Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:47:00 -
[26]
Am I the only one seeing the irony in a "short skill training times blow!" thread?
If you can't get used to planning a skill switch (or accepting the fact that you're going to miss a few hours), your relationship with good old Eve is going to be a short and violent one.
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Taram Caldar
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:02:00 -
[27]
Got to say this is a long overdue ability. A 1 skill queue would help so much. Between sleep ime and work time I have some pretty significant chunks of my day when I just cannot be logged in. It'd be nice to be able to set an 'emergency buffer' skill to train after my current one finishes so that I am not having to CONSTANTLY juggle skills that are nearing completion at times that are inconvenient.
Doing this one thing would make my EVE life much more enjoyable. And as my wife is a relative newb I know for certain that she hated the 'I have to log in now to change a skill' syndrome that being a new player entails if you want to progress at anything remotely resembling a reasonable pace.
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Taram Caldar Got to say this is a long overdue ability. A 1 skill queue would help so much. Between sleep ime and work time I have some pretty significant chunks of my day when I just cannot be logged in. It'd be nice to be able to set an 'emergency buffer' skill to train after my current one finishes so that I am not having to CONSTANTLY juggle skills that are nearing completion at times that are inconvenient.
Doing this one thing would make my EVE life much more enjoyable. And as my wife is a relative newb I know for certain that she hated the 'I have to log in now to change a skill' syndrome that being a new player entails if you want to progress at anything remotely resembling a reasonable pace.
Ah, we all incur wife agro! ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Vasiliyan
The Flying Swan
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ogul A skill queue would be a feature that is fairly easy to implement and would make a lot of people happy.
Ironically, that is exactly the reason why it won't happen anytime soon.
Explain?
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FarScape III
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
And it's paid for training time
No it is not.
Just set another skill going.
Current skill going to finish in 4 hours whilst you are alseep? Pick one that will last 2 weeks.
After 2 days of playing eve you should have at least access to 1 or more level 5 skills, certainly on character creation you end up with level 4 in several areas - just set level 5 training on, say, racial frigate, missile launcher operation or gunnery or something.
But that 4 hour skill needs to be trained some time and lots of them, sure there are ways but having a Q is not a bad thing.
Especialy if you want to have more then one account, sure some people love to think it is no big deal, but it is one of the things stopping me from having more them one account.
If you had a business and wanted to make more money, you would have or should have the Q.
*** Do what you want to EVE, as long as nothing fun is taken away and anything new is fun.
A Minmater City... Cool! |
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