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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:08:00 -
[1]
Probably most of you have already 15 or 20 million sp and have forgotten about 30 minutes skills. If you are at that point, 2 or 3 hours of lost skill training due to server injuries wont do much harm to you, and wont make you think about leaving the game. Also, you will have plenty of long skills to set for nightime or busy work/study days.
But there are new players trying the game everyday, and when your longest skill is for 2.5 hours, it is quite deceiving to see that no matter how you do it, you will miss training time during nightime or work hours. Also, it will happen that on a few days you will have several almost complete skills, which you'll have use to train during long periods of time and you will find yourself unable to finally finish them off. Yes, it happened to me. more than 15 skills at level 4, and 89% of progress to level 5, and then, when they only need 5 more hours of training you are **** off again.
Players do not have 24 hours a day to play, and it is not unusual to be unable to log in during 2 or 3 days (because of work/studies/family). For us, 20 million sp players, that is not a problem. we set Cruiser 5 to train and all is well, and if it ever ends, then we'll be ready for Battlecruisers 5.
But when a new player is unable to log in for 3 days, he will miss many hours of training, and more important, if he is not able to log in very regularly, he will be unable to really follow a logical and optimal training path (not talking about maximizing sp/minute, but about reaching a goal like flying interceptors, or mining barges)
Yes, CCP want us to log in and play the game. CCP do not want to facilitate even more training accounts to ebayers. That is why CCP has repeated over and over again that there will NEVER EVER be a training queue. i think i even have 2 or 3 devs bookmarked promissing that.
well, it seems that NEVER EVER is not such a long time, as can be read on the "In the Drawingboard" section:
"Skill Training - Queue or Dual training
This could enable players to either queue skills so that when one level finishes the next level in that skill starts training automatically, or another preset skill starts training automatically. Dual training would enable you to have a primary long-term skill in training with a secondary short-term skill sharing the training time. After a level in the secondary skill has trained, the primary skill trains at full speed again."
Well, i am not here to point at CCP for not keeping their word. Rather i want to encourage them to give a push to this much needed feature. i dont think it needs a lot of developing or testing time.
For those who think that a 1-skill-queue would make people log in half the times and it would lead to the death of the game, lets put an example.
Nowadays, whenever a skill is ready to finish i need to log in, wait till it finish and set a new skill. At the end, to train for 100 skills, i would have to log in 100 times, and as a side efect, i would be very vulnerable to server or real life issues everytime a skill is near to completion.
Now, throw in a 1-skill queue. i log in and set my current training skill and the queued skill, which will start training once the current skill finishes. I log out.
Then, after some hours/days, the first skill finishes and the queued skill begins training. somewhere before this queued skill completes, i log in, and set a new queued skill, which will start training when the current skill (the former queued skill) completes. I log out.
If we press "FF" till the 100th skill, it turns out we'll have logged in 99 times, instead of 100. For a single login, we would have won near inmunity to server and real life issues, and at the same time we would have made very much easier the first weeks of new players.
I dont think there is any reason to not consider this option as superior to what we have now, unless CCP really want players to loose trainning time and upset new players.
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LillaRinn
Sons of Gehenna
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:37:00 -
[2]
Indeed, my new-character friends would indeed be grateful if this was implemented.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Join channel: Lai Dai Innovations Bringing ♥ to Production and Science |
Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:37:00 -
[3]
rev 3.0 i hear around october
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Zhett Haukes
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:43:00 -
[4]
Having just started an alt who has lots of tiny skills to train, I would love this.
I had sort of given up hoping though.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.14 10:49:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Callthetruth rev 3.0 i hear around october
Lol, dream on --------
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LiLMissy
Caldari Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:12:00 -
[6]
Gosh - that would be lovely !
I hate it when my skill ends at 1am. Then starting up computer before work, wife agro because Im an idiot that just HAS to logon at 7am. Kinda iritating, especaly for those lvl 1-3 skills - that I have about milion infront of me ....
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Callthetruth rev 3.0 i hear around october
Don't think so. Still on the drawing board to keep the endless itch raw.
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:39:00 -
[8]
It's a standing feature request since Eve first launched, eg: Skill Queuing - Dated 30/7/2003.
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Cotton Tail
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:44:00 -
[9]
It will be a nice feature to have and I'm all for it.
But the issue that it would fix is a stupid one. People are far to obsessed with maximising training time. I refuse to get up at 3am just to train a skill. I do change them around to make skill times end at my chosen playtimes, but losing 12 hours of training isn't a big deal in the end. New players wouldn't mind losing the time so much if the older players weren't constantly whining about how important it is to build your lifes around changing skills.
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:45:00 -
[10]
bah....
there's almost always an older skill to be trained, if only as a 'will need that in 6 months time' filler to anticipate a long weekend/chance encounter with a hot blond for the weekend/etc. Frankly, if a hot blond takes up your time, WTF... why is anyone complaining about an internet space game? Also, one or two days really doesn't matter... over 2 years??? LOL... might as well complain that you didn't put in some +4's instead of +3's when you took your 2 week vacation with your girlfriend... If someone has NO higher skills to train that last beyond 12 hours, can't log in for a day or two, and quits...those people would never last in Eve, anyways... imagine when they faced having to mine for their first BS or get all their crappy frigs blown up trying to learn pvp.... If they have THAT poor of a perspective, Eve is not for them.
A queue would be nice, but it's hardly the end of the world if we don't get it.
LOL,I tried Silk Road for a week.. pure XP GRIND.... made me scream when after turning in a low-%-drop item times 60 quest immediately sent me back for the same drop, but 200 of the stupid things.... that's when I rejoiced for Eve ;))))) (and deleted Silk Road).
Eve is not other games... keep it that way.
Originally by: Sc0rpion I'm sorry, I could have sworn you just told them to stop patching the test server. Perhaps you could suggest another method of testing patches?
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.14 11:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mr Friendly Also, one or two days really doesn't matter... over 2 years???
Problem is it's every week not every year. You do have to be obsessive to keep the lost time to a couple days in a year.
And it's paid for training time - maybe people expect to get what they've paid for.
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Ralara
Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:07:00 -
[12]
Quote: Probably most of you have already 15 or 20 million sp and have forgotten about 30 minutes skills.
You mean rank 5 and 6s?
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Thelma Price
Karwal Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Callthetruth rev 3.0 i hear around october
and they always fall into this trap .. they didn't say which year, so probably october 2010 or so :)
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Ralara
Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
And it's paid for training time
No it is not.
Just set another skill going.
Current skill going to finish in 4 hours whilst you are alseep? Pick one that will last 2 weeks.
After 2 days of playing eve you should have at least access to 1 or more level 5 skills, certainly on character creation you end up with level 4 in several areas - just set level 5 training on, say, racial frigate, missile launcher operation or gunnery or something.
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
And it's paid for training time
No it is not.
Just set another skill going.
Huh? That is paid for. How can you say it's not?
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Mashie Saldana
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:34:00 -
[16]
A 12h skill buffer that you could fill up with multiple short/partial skills would be great. But as that isn't an option you better get used to evemon and doing partial skills now and then.
The way I deal with skills is quite simple (been a while since I had to do a lot of short ones though). Skills with 9+h remaining start before work, skills with 7+h remaining start before going to bed. Skills shorter than 7h start after work and change before going to bed. You will end up with a few skills in progress but you will not waste any training time.
We're sorry, something happened.
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Ralara
Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 12:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
And it's paid for training time
No it is not.
Just set another skill going.
Huh? That is paid for. How can you say it's not?
Game time is paid for. Not skill time. You can train skills during game time, but you're not paying for skill training time. If you CHOOSE to train skills (generally, it's a good idea, of course) that's up to you. But you aren't paying your subscription to train skills, you're paying to access the sever.
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Vasiliyan
The Flying Swan
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Posted - 2007.06.14 13:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ralara
Game time is paid for. Not skill time. You can train skills during game time, but you're not paying for skill training time. If you CHOOSE to train skills (generally, it's a good idea, of course) that's up to you. But you aren't paying your subscription to train skills, you're paying to access the sever.
If we're going to be stupidly pedantic about this, you're paying to access the server when it happens to be up, and for it to have persistent data on it across sessions. I think skills and their training constitute an important part of that persistence.
Just give us the queue of depth 1 and it'll be so much easier. Like instas/WTZ, there was a huge amount of complaining in both directions until CCP gave in and decided to level the playing field there. Now hardly anyone complains.
Even an automatic rollover to something chosen for you would be better than the current situation.
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 15:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mr Friendly bah....
there's almost always an older skill to be trained, if only as a 'will need that in 6 months time' filler to anticipate a long weekend/chance encounter with a hot blond for the weekend/etc. Frankly, if a hot blond takes up your time, WTF... why is anyone complaining about an internet space game? Also, one or two days really doesn't matter... over 2 years??? LOL... might as well complain that you didn't put in some +4's instead of +3's when you took your 2 week vacation with your girlfriend... If someone has NO higher skills to train that last beyond 12 hours, can't log in for a day or two, and quits...those people would never last in Eve, anyways... imagine when they faced having to mine for their first BS or get all their crappy frigs blown up trying to learn pvp.... If they have THAT poor of a perspective, Eve is not for them.
A queue would be nice, but it's hardly the end of the world if we don't get it. LOL,I tried Silk Road for a week.. pure XP GRIND.... made me scream when after turning in a low-%-drop item times 60 quest immediately sent me back for the same drop, but 200 of the stupid things.... that's when I rejoiced for Eve ;))))) (and deleted Silk Road).
Eve is not other games... keep it that way.
i disagree. i have been playing EVE for 2 years now, and if i keep playing is because of one single feature: autorepeat. i know that if i had to press F1-F2-F3... everytime i wanted to shoot everyone of my guns i would not be playing EVE.
if i had to be clicking on the hardeners everytime i saw a missile heading for me, i know for sure i wouldnt be playing EVE.
Now, you can say that makes me a weak player and that i do not deserve to play this game, that EVE is only for real men. well, maybe.
i know i love this game, and i think that just by having a single skill queue many more new players would keep on playing and would get to love this game too. i dont think that wanting a litle bit of an easier time during the first weeks is not something to be ashamed about, even less with a game so deep, complex and overhelming as EVE Online.
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Kruel
Save our Souls
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Posted - 2007.06.14 16:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zhett Haukes Having just started an alt who has lots of tiny skills to train, I would love this.
Same here. I find myself training skills I don't really need at the moment just so that I have something training while I work/sleep.
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.06.14 16:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cotton Tail
People are far to obsessed with maximising training time. I refuse to get up at 3am just to train a skill. I do change them around to make skill times end at my chosen playtimes, but losing 12 hours of training isn't a big deal in the end. New players wouldn't mind losing the time so much if the older players weren't constantly whining about how important it is to build your lifes around changing skills.
QFT
So you lose a few hours, big whoop.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.14 16:21:00 -
[22]
A skill queue would be a feature that is fairly easy to implement and would make a lot of people happy.
Ironically, that is exactly the reason why it won't happen anytime soon.
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AegriSomnia
Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.14 16:34:00 -
[23]
It really isnt THAT hard to manage a skill plan, a lot of it has to do with staying focused and remaining disciplined. If you have 4-5 skills at 89% to level 5, why not just finish the job?
I would like to see something like the system that WoW has. When you are offline and not training any skills, it builds up a "double-time" account, so that when you log back in and start training a skill, it trains at double time, but only for the amount of time you were not training a skill.
Originally by: grayson 34 Thank you for yall's advice, and a special thanks to AegriSomnia for reminding me that there are still ***holes in the world.
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Ralara
Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Vasiliyan
Originally by: Ralara
Game time is paid for. Not skill time. You can train skills during game time, but you're not paying for skill training time. If you CHOOSE to train skills (generally, it's a good idea, of course) that's up to you. But you aren't paying your subscription to train skills, you're paying to access the sever.
If we're going to be stupidly pedantic about this, you're paying to access the server when it happens to be up, and for it to have persistent data on it across sessions. I think skills and their training constitute an important part of that persistence.
So do I. But you're not paying to skill train, it is illogical to demand queues or similar because we "are paying for skill time".
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Sathamarid
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:39:00 -
[25]
It sounds nice. Doubt it will happen. If you can't find a skill to train (that you need eventually) that takes longer than 2 days you aren't looking very hard.
The queue would be great. I think it should have 3 skills in it, that would let me set up a Lv1 - Lv3 skill to train between one night and the next, which would be super handy. I support this idea really. But I don't think they're gonna do it.
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Nicho Void
Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:47:00 -
[26]
Am I the only one seeing the irony in a "short skill training times blow!" thread?
If you can't get used to planning a skill switch (or accepting the fact that you're going to miss a few hours), your relationship with good old Eve is going to be a short and violent one.
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Taram Caldar
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:02:00 -
[27]
Got to say this is a long overdue ability. A 1 skill queue would help so much. Between sleep ime and work time I have some pretty significant chunks of my day when I just cannot be logged in. It'd be nice to be able to set an 'emergency buffer' skill to train after my current one finishes so that I am not having to CONSTANTLY juggle skills that are nearing completion at times that are inconvenient.
Doing this one thing would make my EVE life much more enjoyable. And as my wife is a relative newb I know for certain that she hated the 'I have to log in now to change a skill' syndrome that being a new player entails if you want to progress at anything remotely resembling a reasonable pace.
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Taram Caldar Got to say this is a long overdue ability. A 1 skill queue would help so much. Between sleep ime and work time I have some pretty significant chunks of my day when I just cannot be logged in. It'd be nice to be able to set an 'emergency buffer' skill to train after my current one finishes so that I am not having to CONSTANTLY juggle skills that are nearing completion at times that are inconvenient.
Doing this one thing would make my EVE life much more enjoyable. And as my wife is a relative newb I know for certain that she hated the 'I have to log in now to change a skill' syndrome that being a new player entails if you want to progress at anything remotely resembling a reasonable pace.
Ah, we all incur wife agro! ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Vasiliyan
The Flying Swan
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ogul A skill queue would be a feature that is fairly easy to implement and would make a lot of people happy.
Ironically, that is exactly the reason why it won't happen anytime soon.
Explain?
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FarScape III
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
And it's paid for training time
No it is not.
Just set another skill going.
Current skill going to finish in 4 hours whilst you are alseep? Pick one that will last 2 weeks.
After 2 days of playing eve you should have at least access to 1 or more level 5 skills, certainly on character creation you end up with level 4 in several areas - just set level 5 training on, say, racial frigate, missile launcher operation or gunnery or something.
But that 4 hour skill needs to be trained some time and lots of them, sure there are ways but having a Q is not a bad thing.
Especialy if you want to have more then one account, sure some people love to think it is no big deal, but it is one of the things stopping me from having more them one account.
If you had a business and wanted to make more money, you would have or should have the Q.
*** Do what you want to EVE, as long as nothing fun is taken away and anything new is fun.
A Minmater City... Cool! |
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:51:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Callthetruth rev 3.0 i hear around october
This feat is in the drawning board since one year. :/ -----
History is made by whinners
Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
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Valh
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:42:00 -
[32]
You can stop and start skills! Learn the fast ones when your playing, Long ones when your not. Btw you do not lose points for stopping a skill.
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Karanth
Gallente Cirrius Technologies O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:31:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Vasiliyan
Originally by: Ralara
Game time is paid for. Not skill time. You can train skills during game time, but you're not paying for skill training time. If you CHOOSE to train skills (generally, it's a good idea, of course) that's up to you. But you aren't paying your subscription to train skills, you're paying to access the sever.
If we're going to be stupidly pedantic about this, you're paying to access the server when it happens to be up, and for it to have persistent data on it across sessions. I think skills and their training constitute an important part of that persistence.
Just give us the queue of depth 1 and it'll be so much easier. Like instas/WTZ, there was a huge amount of complaining in both directions until CCP gave in and decided to level the playing field there. Now hardly anyone complains.
Even an automatic rollover to something chosen for you would be better than the current situation.
As it is, we pay to get on the server. Skills train while accounts are inactive. So, logically, we ARE paying for play time, not skill time. So either make skills stop training when the sub runs out, or put a queue in please.
Free beer for those who mod my sig!
There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. I'll see your beer, and raise you a goat kebab -Tirg I'll take that pint and raise you two -Timmeh I bet 2 goats, 1 pint and a bag of slugs -Lordharold I grab it all, cook it/eat and drink it all and say thank you. -Pirlouit I'll call your bluff, and go all in on 3 locks of Hutch's hair. -Incognus I'll see that bet, depending on where the hair came from. -Rauth *pushes the other mods out of the way* Mmmm, bree - Karass Bree & goat kebabs!!! I'm in!! - Yips |
Antari Shiy
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:40:00 -
[34]
Yes you can but when you've only got skills that take 3 or 4 hours to train that leaves you with few options.
The reasons CCP give (Building chars purely to sell for cash) for not giving us a skill queue don't really stand up either as a simple check when the character trade went through would identify people who are trading numerous characters and the trade could be blocked.
I can see no reason why a skill queue should not be implemented. If it brings in more players surely thats a good thing ?
I'd still like to see web based skill changing implemented but I know that will never ever happen. ------------------------ Blink and your dead |
Snake Jankins
Minmatar Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:58:00 -
[35]
I'd like to see dual skill-training or a queue for two skills, too. Although most of my skills are long, sometimes you want to train something new and the 30min, 2 hour, 6 hour skills are a bit annoying. I want to train that stuff effectively without being in alarm clock mode.
Just wasted another day, because of that. Chose to train an alt some market skills, before I went to bed. Forgot to log in again, stop it, log to main and start there skills again. Think the skill-training micro management adds nothing to the game, it's just a hassle for normal people, although maybe an enjoyment for alarm-clock lovers. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.14 23:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Karanth As it is, we pay to get on the server. Skills train while accounts are inactive. So, logically, we ARE paying for play time, not skill time.
We are very much paying for training time. If it was just paying for play time it would be charged by the minute not by the month. And why do you think people continue paying when they know they can't do more than change skills?
Quote: So either make skills stop training when the sub runs out, or put a queue in please.
Both can co-exist. Having the current skill train to completion and the remaining 100 deep queue waiting behind it will stay pending until the account is paid for again.
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Herring
Pimpology Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.06.15 01:17:00 -
[37]
/signed
There's no good reason to be dragging the programming feet on this issue. Get it in here already.
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Dragonrazor
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.15 01:18:00 -
[38]
I'm personally in favor of a LIMITED skill training cue.
Allowing us to cue up ONE skill in addition to the one currently training is IMHO a fair and just system which only helps the game.
Can some jerks exploit it to make farming alts? Sure... But to be brutally honest, I'm sure the types who would use this in that fashion already have a macro or bot of some kind that already can do this for them...
The way I'd work it is pretty simple:
Player can only cue a skill when in game. Player can only cue ONE skill in addition the current training. Player can cue a SINGLE skill to auto cue up to max without logging on (IE train gunnery 1-5 without logging on).
This final point I think is win as that is for many players the prime reason for logging on to set skill training in the first place, IE you completed a level, and want to take the next level.
While this WOULD allow some people to train for a month or more without logging on, if the player is paying all this time, who cares? CCP makes their bucks, the player gets their SP, and everyone else has to deal with less traffic lag from those who log on "just to change skills" at 4 AM their time, prime time eve time.
Honestly, I find it hard or uncomfortable to log in just to set a skill...
But on the other hand, I will still need to log in sooner or later, but the difference lies with micromanagement and convenience... Less of the former, and more of the latter is always a selling point.
To be clear, I am in no way in favor of a method to autocue dozens of skills... 1 skill at a time, or one skill book to max is fair in my mind, and still requires players to log on from time to time.
I am also NOT in favor of dual skilling (setting one at priority and one at secondary) and watch both go up at once... IMHO thats more or less useless by comparison.
Another iteration that might be acceptable, is to make it so players can spend ISK for each skill they cue, and have it multiplied by the skills rank, and training time multiplier.
IE a Rank 4-5 skill might cost 100K to cue, multiplied by 2 for each training time multiplier. Thus a 4-5 rank skill with a multiplier of 5, might cost 3.2 mil to cue up :) That would mean people do it only for the low rank skills, which is by the way the point of the cue as described above, to be able to train multiple short term skills (IE low rank skills) without logging on.
Rank structure could look like (just for example):
5K base cost for cueing a rank 1 20K base cost for cueing a rank 1-2. 50K base cost for cueing a rank 3-4. 100K base cost for cueing a rank 4-5.
Thus training a rank 1 skill with a multiplier of 5 would cost 160K to cue...
A mere bag of shells for most pilots past a week of solid playing.
It could also be modded by the players total SP somehow, so a player with fewer SP's pays less even for high rank high multiplier skills than a guy with 15Mil + SP.
Again this is acceptable because the whole idea behind why cueing should be ok is to help people train newer short duration skills, not racial BS 4 to BS 5.
People with 20 mil SP have far fewer new (Ie Rank 0-1) skills to train, and so they have less need of the cue, but would be able to use it for a fee if they knew they would be away from EVE for some time and really just HAD to train Capital ships from 3 to 5 during their absence.
Make sense? ********************************************* "Stars Die... Empires fall... We are dust..." ********************************************* |
Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.15 07:49:00 -
[39]
With your opening sentence I almost didn't bother reading the rest. You should have separated the both half of your post into a separate post.
I very much like the last option. It provides the deep queue ability and it's a real solution to the farming concern I'd say. :)
A few corrections you might want to make: - Change rank to level. - Change multiplier to rank. - Level 2-3 base price is missing, I'd say shift level 1-2 down to 10k and make 2-3 20k.
Another variation on that approach is to base the pricing on the queue position the skill is added at rather than the skill points of the skill being added. Or a balanced combo of the two prices.
Btw, the rank and level combination equals the skill points of a skill.
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.15 08:02:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Solbright altaltalt on 15/06/2007 08:03:43
The advantage of the queue position approach is that those that only want to have a single skill queued at a time can do so, no matter how big the skill, without worrying about the price.
In fact no charge at all for the first position would be a nice detail.
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DarkFenix
Caldari Pilots Of Honour
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Posted - 2007.06.15 08:24:00 -
[41]
1. Getting every second of training time in is overrated. I'm always losing a few hours here, a few hours there because it just isn't worth the trouble to drop what I'm doing, log in, and change a skill.
2. There's no excuse for not having access to level 4 or 5 skills to train. New characters start with those available to them now, and if you're that obsessed with not wasting a single second you'll make sure you have another available by the time another finishes.
Skill training queue = bad. Character sellers will make even more money.
Oh and if you end up with that many skills almost finished, you utterly suck at character management.
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.15 08:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: DarkFenix 1. Getting every second of training time in is overrated. I'm always losing a few hours here, a few hours there because it just isn't worth the trouble to drop what I'm doing, log in, and change a skill.
Why did you bother to answer then?
Quote: Skill training queue = bad. Character sellers will make even more money.
You obviously haven't even bothered to read the posts right above your own post!
Quote: Oh and if you end up with that many skills almost finished, you utterly suck at character management.
Yeah, a saw some screenshots of a charater with every second skill with 50%-99% completed level 4/5 skills. Just what everyone wants to end up like. :/
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.15 13:30:00 -
[43]
Originally by: DarkFenix 1. Getting every second of training time in is overrated. I'm always losing a few hours here, a few hours there because it just isn't worth the trouble to drop what I'm doing, log in, and change a skill.
2. There's no excuse for not having access to level 4 or 5 skills to train. New characters start with those available to them now, and if you're that obsessed with not wasting a single second you'll make sure you have another available by the time another finishes.
Skill training queue = bad. Character sellers will make even more money.
Oh and if you end up with that many skills almost finished, you utterly suck at character management.
can you explain how logging in 99 times instead of 100 times would be good for character sellers?
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Ralara
Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.15 13:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: FarScape III
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
And it's paid for training time
No it is not.
Just set another skill going.
Current skill going to finish in 4 hours whilst you are alseep? Pick one that will last 2 weeks.
After 2 days of playing eve you should have at least access to 1 or more level 5 skills, certainly on character creation you end up with level 4 in several areas - just set level 5 training on, say, racial frigate, missile launcher operation or gunnery or something.
But that 4 hour skill needs to be trained some time and lots of them, sure there are ways but having a Q is not a bad thing.
Especialy if you want to have more then one account, sure some people love to think it is no big deal, but it is one of the things stopping me from having more them one account.
If you had a business and wanted to make more money, you would have or should have the Q.
I would also like a queue, by the way
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HAL 9000
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Posted - 2007.06.15 14:33:00 -
[45]
I suppose this would be nice, but it's not a high priority for me. I actually rather enjoy the mini-game of timing a skill so that it finishes at a convenient real-life time. If it's going to finish at 3 a.m., or if an extended downtime is approaching, I just switch to another long-training skill. Even if your character is new, you probably have level 4 and 5 skills that can tide you over. I always seemed to.
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Christari Zuborov
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Posted - 2007.06.15 18:32:00 -
[46]
I know this won't be a very popular viewpoint, but I actually prefer we keep the method we have now.
By not building training queues, the devs create more diversity in the game. There are times where I went 4 days without training anything; my character sat idle. Will it hurt you that bad that you can't pilot your dread 2 hours, or 2 days earlier? I think I read once that there's like 18 yrs worth of training if you trained everything to level 5, will a few days be that devastating to your time line?
The flip side also currently rewards those players who are disciplined enough to NEVER waste training time. Those people probably get some sort of satisfaction in themselves knowing they have that edge on a possible majority of the player base. THAT is a player based skill, something that comes externally from the game and is brought in. Something that the devs even said in this patch where they want 'more player based skills, rather than sp related skills'. Should we take that away from them?
So as painful as it is to admit, and as much as it would save me from logging in solely to change skills, it's my opinion the current method is the best, for this unique game.
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Sha'Uri Dark
Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.06.15 18:53:00 -
[47]
A skill queue of 1-2 skills would be nice but what I'd really like to be able to do is train more than 1 character at a time per account. -------------------------------- As a Freelancer...scratch that Originally by: Shar Tegral Stop projecting your out of game beliefs of what society should be upon the rest of us.
said it best. |
Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.16 06:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov By not building training queues, the devs create more diversity in the game.
That is so not an augument! It's been slapped down every time. As an example from post 19 in this very thread, it's equivalent to the guns not having an auto-repeat.
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.16 06:13:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sha'Uri Dark A skill queue of 1-2 skills would be nice but what I'd really like to be able to do is train more than 1 character at a time per account.
No way that will happen. We are paying for training time. If you want concurrent training then sign up for a second account.
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Ghast Ley
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Posted - 2007.06.16 11:29:00 -
[50]
Damn when i clicked on this thread, i thought itd be on the minigame. That minigame idea is hella pimp idea. you know when you are taking a ride in your pimped faction ship through pirate territories you need some **** to do. this minigame **** is gonna be the ****.
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.17 12:23:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov I know this won't be a very popular viewpoint, but I actually prefer we keep the method we have now.
By not building training queues, the devs create more diversity in the game. There are times where I went 4 days without training anything; my character sat idle. Will it hurt you that bad that you can't pilot your dread 2 hours, or 2 days earlier? I think I read once that there's like 18 yrs worth of training if you trained everything to level 5, will a few days be that devastating to your time line?
The flip side also currently rewards those players who are disciplined enough to NEVER waste training time. Those people probably get some sort of satisfaction in themselves knowing they have that edge on a possible majority of the player base. THAT is a player based skill, something that comes externally from the game and is brought in. Something that the devs even said in this patch where they want 'more player based skills, rather than sp related skills'. Should we take that away from them?
So as painful as it is to admit, and as much as it would save me from logging in solely to change skills, it's my opinion the current method is the best, for this unique game.
well, your argument could be true for many more things, like for example not having a list of all the agents for every NPC corp and having to find them all one by one just by docking on every single station on all EVE universe. do you think that would be a good thing too, since it would reward hard-worker players?
or how about POS mails? yes, we could have always one corp mate on the POS checking how much fuel the POS has, and get rid of those disturbing "Starbase low on resources" mails.
or even having a recorded list of every economic transaction we have done. we could do it all by hand instead of having the useless wallet function ingame.
or as i said before, how would you do without an auto-repeat function? would you play EVE if you had to be constantly pressing F1-Crtl+F5-Shift+F2-F2....?
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FingerThief
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.17 12:48:00 -
[52]
Originally by: LillaRinn Indeed, my new-character friends would indeed be grateful if this was implemented.
Oh right ... One of the things that I do not want new players ( aka n00bs ) to have is queued skill training.
I've been around a few years now ( almost right after retail went live ) and for ALL of us it has been the same ... wake up in the middle of the night ( or stay sleepless for some days ) and train up the skills you can afford by mining in a frig, in 1.0 like almost everyone else.
You, as a player starting out, have Learning skills, Adv Learning skills, Implants and EVEMon to help you plan to train and accumulate SP faster then we ever could AND you start out with 800K+ SP
I have no problem with that ... just don't queue skills CCP ... don't.
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Cuisinart
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.06.17 13:25:00 -
[53]
This is needed.
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Solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.17 21:39:00 -
[54]
Originally by: FingerThief Oh right ... One of the things that I do not want new players ( aka n00bs ) to have is queued skill training.
I've been around a few years now ( almost right after retail went live ) and for ALL of us it has been the same ...
Oh right ... I got kicked. I want to kick someone!
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Anehra
X-Fire
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Posted - 2007.06.17 22:09:00 -
[55]
It would be a nice feature. However, everyone knows there is a bunch of "must have" lvl5-skills. If you know you have short time skills it's quite simple to train those short time while you are on and "split up" the lv5-long training. Sure it might take you 10 days to do that "5d 11h" training, but you don't lose time.
It shouldn't need to be that messy, but well yes, a feature like this would be nice.
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Raem Civrie
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.17 22:11:00 -
[56]
I've often wasted entire days of training because I simply couldn't change skills, and was too lazy to switch to longer skills instead (intermediate training or whatever you want to call it, whatever).
I've probably lost upwards of 3 weeks of training or something to that over the last 4 years. Then there's the whole days I forgot to change skills. Yeah.
My character is 4 years old and I have 45m sp, while my temporaries often have around 60m. I cry. ----
Fact #443: Everyone in EVE is someone's alt |
Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.18 07:12:00 -
[57]
Originally by: FingerThief
Originally by: LillaRinn Indeed, my new-character friends would indeed be grateful if this was implemented.
Oh right ... One of the things that I do not want new players ( aka n00bs ) to have is queued skill training.
I've been around a few years now ( almost right after retail went live ) and for ALL of us it has been the same ... wake up in the middle of the night ( or stay sleepless for some days ) and train up the skills you can afford by mining in a frig, in 1.0 like almost everyone else.
You, as a player starting out, have Learning skills, Adv Learning skills, Implants and EVEMon to help you plan to train and accumulate SP faster then we ever could AND you start out with 800K+ SP
I have no problem with that ... just don't queue skills CCP ... don't.
dude, dont be selfish. i've had to plan my skills for more than 2 years like everybody else, but that doesnt make me hate new players and wish them a hard time.
this game would die without new players, and a skill queue (a very limited one) would help retaining those players that do the trial.
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Zeonos
Amarr Fairtrade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.18 14:22:00 -
[58]
im tired that real people have to suffer because of farmers. to heck with farmers. this is what we want. so a farmer gain 5 more minutes. farmers isn't the once on work, or sleeping... we are. im tired that entire games get nerfed, because of farmers.
Image gallery with some of the new ship models.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2007.06.18 14:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Callthetruth rev 3.0 i hear around october
Hey there miss overlord, how are the one line sentences treating you these days?
_________________ Burn. |
Ovno ConSyquence
Amarr The Plebians
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Posted - 2007.06.18 16:15:00 -
[60]
Can't wait for a skill queue if they ever do it, but my god, duel skill training, there's a feature I'm never going to use if ever there was one...
I mean why would you ever want to train a skill slower to train another one at the same time, there is absolutly no advantage to this and as most of the skills i lose time on are the 4 - 5 hr from level 2 - level 3 ones it would slow my progress anyway, because i wouldnt have the skill i wanted by the next morning (in time to train level 4 while at work....)
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Sha'Uri Dark
Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.06.18 17:22:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Solbright altaltalt
Originally by: Sha'Uri Dark A skill queue of 1-2 skills would be nice but what I'd really like to be able to do is train more than 1 character at a time per account.
No way that will happen. We are paying for training time. If you want concurrent training then sign up for a second account.
I have and do pay for a second account, even if we could train more than 1 character per account at a time I still would have and pay for a second account. Being able to train more than 1 character at a time per account wouldn't change that in the slightest. What it would do is let me use all the character slots on my two paid for accounts. As it is now I have 4 character slots that are basically worthless, unless I want to gimp my mains training by training more than 1 character per account.
Don't get me wrong I love EvEs' skill system, I just wish we could use our other character slots for something other than market checker's, disposable scouts, etc. -------------------------------- As a Freelancer...scratch that Originally by: Shar Tegral Stop projecting your out of game beliefs of what society should be upon the rest of us.
said it best. |
Dannek
Llama F5 and Associates
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Posted - 2007.06.18 18:28:00 -
[62]
Count me as another player who wants skill queuing.
I'd have a lot more medium ranks instead of a handful of 5 rank skills if I could just set one to train after a skill has finished.
It's not even necessarily that I don't log on pretty frequently, it's just that I forget about the damned things. -------------------------------------------------------- Working towards my own personal Dreadnought, one ISK at a time. |
Mhaerdirne Solveig
Combustion Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.18 18:30:00 -
[63]
argh put this in already
I'd pay an extra 10 bucks a year for this feature
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solbright altaltalt
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Posted - 2007.06.18 21:24:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Sha'Uri Dark Don't get me wrong I love EvEs' skill system, I just wish we could use our other character slots for something other than market checker's, disposable scouts, etc.
Count yourself lucky they are there for those very jobs. And you can even train them up a little for simple skilled jobs.
The paid account covers only one skill training at a time, period. It would be silly to removed the spare character slots just to make it look more complete for you.
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Irebura
Nuevos Horizontes O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.19 07:23:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Valh You can stop and start skills! Learn the fast ones when your playing, Long ones when your not. Btw you do not lose points for stopping a skill.
well smarty, if you had bother to read the OP you would know that he was not talking about managing skill only. He mentioned also unscheduled and unsuspected server disconnects and downtimes, that happen much more often than we all would like.
with a simple queue of 1 skill, we would all be almost invulnerable to those accidents.
but why would you bother reading a long post when you can just press "reply" and type in whatever comes first to mind. yeah, god bless the internet
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:11:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Dannek I'd have a lot more medium ranks instead of a handful of 5 rank skills if I could just set one to train after a skill has finished.
yeah, that is the thing. and the matter is even more serious for new players.
Originally by: Mhaerdirne Solveig argh put this in already
I'd pay an extra 10 bucks a year for this feature
don't give them ideas
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