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Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 17:36:33 As a dedicated EVE player and as an Englishman, I am truly disappointed by the level of sophistication this community shows in their manner and in their forum postings. This community is (or at least, was) alleged to be a community of well educated players, and it is simply not showing these days.
This is NOT aimed at those of you who don't speak English natively; rather it is aimed at those who claim to be native English speakers (and usually show a poorer understanding of basic grammar and spelling than those who aren't).
So without further ado, some pointers for you.
- You're means "You are"
- Your means "Your", referring to something you possess, such as "Your character is a dirty Minmatar"
- They're means "They are"
- Their means "Their", referring to something somebody else (a group, entity, or unknown number of person(s)) posesses, as in "Their alliance isn't worth its weight in Veldspar"
- it's means "it is"
- its means "its", referring to a property or possession of something, for example "I stabbed its face with my fork"
- A character is NOT a "toon"
- "I could care less" is incorrect, the phrase is "I couldn't care less". Think about the meaning of the phrase.
I don't claim to be a perfect English speaker, however it really does upset me when folks use one of the above terms incorrectly whilst trying to "one-up" their enemies on these forums. It is often apparent which side is giving the more educated responses by the way that they portray their thoughts.
~Alpha
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D Jed
AtomiCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:40:00 -
[2]
i dont know what your talking about. its really not so big a deal when someone messes up on there grammar a little. maybe your a little too obsessed over toons and theyre write to speak however they want
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:43:00 -
[3]
thar be grammar ****s here
yarrr
Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon!
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Alpha Agent
"I could care less" is incorrect, the phrase is "I couldn't care less". Think about the meaning of the phrase.
People often get that one wrong because there are two variations on the saying: "I couldn't care less" and "as if I could care less". People often get confused and mix and match the two. --------
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Keira Fordring
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:45:00 -
[5]
The only thing I disagree with is that a "character" can, in fact, be a "toon".
You may not find "character" as a reference in the definition of "toon" in a standard dictionary however the term "toon" was adopted years ago as a synonym for "character". Synonyms are not definitions of a word but rather alternate representations. A "character" can be a "toon".
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D Jed
AtomiCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:48:00 -
[6]
I hate the word toon and every time I hear it it makes me want to vomit up my insides. But to each his own!
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Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:49:00 -
[7]
'Toon' is a bit of an odd one out in your list. Its an exceptionally ghey word, but not a spelling or grammar error.
I do agree that most of the really sloppy spelling and grammar comes from people who DO 'speak' English as their first language. Many apologists like to claim otherwise, but all the non-native English speakers I know seem to put a hell of a lot more effort into getting it right than many native speakers do. Txtspk has a lot to answer for - there are children out there who really believe that some words are spelled with numbers.
Well, I'll leave you to be flamed. Enjoy!
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Talkie Toaster
Amarr Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:51:00 -
[8]
to be honest im happy so long as people are at least making a basic effort. its whgen they start "tlkn lik dis and finkin dey is big and gr8" that gets on my ****. fortunatly thats not something you see a lot of in eve.
yep, no capitals, bad punctuation and probably awful sentence construction. so shoot me. at least its readable.
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Keira Fordring
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:52:00 -
[9]
As an aside, if the OP wants to see extremely horrid use of the English language, take a trip on over to the World of Warcraft forums. That place is a cesspool.
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The Pointless
Gallente Plastic Toys
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Aioa 'Toon' is a bit of an odd one out in your list. Its an exceptionally ghey word, but not a spelling or grammar error.
But he is right, is he not? 
-----------------------------------------------
"Breaking News! The Pointless hates GIFs!" |

Sathamarid
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:59:00 -
[11]
Correcting people's grammar on the internet makes you look uptight. Oh, you said Englishman. Beated.
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Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:09:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 18:08:56
Originally by: Keira Fordring The only thing I disagree with is that a "character" can, in fact, be a "toon".
I understand from where your disagreement stems, however in the English language, "toon" is a colloquial shortening of "cartoon", the definition of which is universally accepted as an animation.
In American-adapted English, "toon" may refer to any number of animated characters in such an animation. Under no definition does "toon" apply to a non-animated character.
I can see why "toon" might be applicable in a game such as World of Warcraft, where your character could be defined as a "toon" under lax American English, however this terminology is not relevant to this game since your character is not animated (yet).
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Mithfindel
Amarr Ordo Crucis Argenteus
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:32:00 -
[13]
While I do perfectly agree with the OP, I cannot resist noting that I haven't this far seen a single language where titles or headlines end with a period (".").
Regular sentences do, but titles do not, nor do names with the exception of some moronic new brands invited by marketing departments. (How am I supposed to construct the genitive of the insurance company "If..."?)
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:34:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 14/06/2007 18:33:36 Your just stupid why should it bother you how other's write theyre posts as long as you can read them you're attitude is really annoying, its perfectly fine to write garbage like this as long as it's meaning is clear.
That being said, I am not even a native english speaker, yet all this lazyass (or stupidass, I wouldn't know) bad spelling and grammar is really going on my nuts. I know from experience that it is not at all hard to re-read what you wrote at least once and to fix the most glaring mistakes, even for non-native speakers. Yet so many people don't bother...
And yeah sure the meaning does get across (sometimes anyway), but more often than not a horribly written text will either simply be ignored by people that matter, or it will not be taken seriously. Posting with such crappy grammar is like delivering a speech in public while dressed in rags without a shower for 3 weeks. Spelling and grammar are your online clothes. If you choose to wear smelly rags, don't be surprised if you are treated accordingly.
Noone demands perfection, but just a little care. It is not a matter of stuck-upness or elitism, it is a matter of courtesy.
Thank you SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in tur |

T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:38:00 -
[15]
Wes don't need none of your fancy big city book lernin talk round ere. |

Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 18:40:01
Originally by: Mithfindel While I do perfectly agree with the OP, I cannot resist noting that I haven't this far seen a single language where titles or headlines end with a period (".").
You're quite right, of course. I have corrected the post title.
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Mrmuttley
Guns 'N' Hoses
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:41:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Mrmuttley on 14/06/2007 18:42:34 Given that english isn't the first language of everyone who plays the game i think the "there their they're" issues are no big deal espeshally wen we get soo much ZOMG ROFLCOPTOR pwnzored haxzored and 1337 5p34k
Give me someone who speaks english as a second or third language fairly well over 1337 5p34k any day.
Just my 0.02 isk
/edit noticed you did put in the non native speakers bit but my point still stands I think. Give me inccorect of use their there and they're over excessive ROLFCOPTOR!!!!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Time for a new Sig.
Any Ideas? |

Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:43:00 -
[18]
Well, since we're on the subject...it's concord, not concorde 
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |

Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mrmuttley Given that english isn't the first language of everyone who plays the game i think the "there their they're" issues are no big deal espeshally wen we get soo much ZOMG ROFLCOPTOR pwnzored haxzored and 1337 5p34k
Give me someone who speaks english as a second or third language fairly well over 1337 5p34k any day.
Just my 0.02 isk
Yeah, but the OP already stated pretty clearly that it's not directed at those who do not speak english as a native language. That being said, I agree with you 100%. :)
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Mrmuttley
Guns 'N' Hoses
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:44:00 -
[20]
thats why i did a quick edit  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Time for a new Sig.
Any Ideas? |

Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mrmuttley excessive ROLFCOPTOR!!!!!!!
Haha, how many ROFLCOPTORs is excessive?
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:55:00 -
[22]
"I could care less" is sarcasm.
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Diragi
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:58:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Diragi on 14/06/2007 18:58:24 Edited by: Diragi on 14/06/2007 18:57:04
Originally by: D Jed i dont know what your talking about. its really not so big a deal when someone messes up on there grammar a little. maybe your a little too obsessed over toons and theyre write to speak however they want
Grammar a little messed up? In those two sentences there are probably close to a dozen items that need correcting...
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Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:58:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 18:58:55
Originally by: Adonis 4174 "I could care less" is sarcasm.
Apologies, but this statement is beyond my comprehension, would you please explain why that phrase is sarcastic?
Originally by: Diragi Grammer a little messed up? In those two sentences there are probably close to a dozen items that need correcting...
However, the post you are referring to was sarcasm!
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Mrmuttley
Guns 'N' Hoses
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Alpha Agent
Originally by: Mrmuttley excessive ROLFCOPTOR!!!!!!!
Haha, how many ROFLCOPTORs is excessive?
1 a month should be the max allowed  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Time for a new Sig.
Any Ideas? |

defiler
Mad Hermit
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Alpha Agent
Originally by: Mrmuttley excessive ROLFCOPTOR!!!!!!!
Haha, how many ROFLCOPTORs is excessive?
Duh, 11 of course. 
Mad Hermit - Minding our own business since 2004. |

Stoner Sid
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Alpha Agent
So without further ado, some pointers for you.
- You're means "You are"
- Your means "Your", referring to something you possess, such as "Your character is a dirty Minmatar"
- They're means "They are"
- Their means "Their", referring to something somebody else (a group, entity, or unknown number of person(s)) posesses, as in "Their alliance isn't worth its weight in Veldspar"
- it's means "it is"
- its means "its", referring to a property or possession of something, for example "I stabbed its face with my fork"
- A character is NOT a "toon"
- "I could care less" is incorrect, the phrase is "I couldn't care less". Think about the meaning of the phrase.
~Alpha
some pointers for you....
ur = you're ur = your theyre = they're their = their its = it's a toon can be refered to as a char i cudnt give a flying **** is a correct way of saying that phrase you also need to get a life and maybe stop being an english teacher
most of the mistakes are due to pure laziness or just quikness. tbh both are because people are at home and cudnt give a **** about grammer and just wanna laf 
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Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Stoner Sid most of the mistakes are due to pure laziness or just quikness. tbh both are because people are at home and cudnt give a **** about grammer and just wanna laf
I find this amusing, because it's possible to spot a Goonswarm alt without so much as a passing doubt.
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Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Adonis 4174 Given that "I could care less" is an insult...
No, it's not.
The correct phrase "I couldn't care less" is coined to mean "I don't care".
"I could care less" technically means "I do care a little", which simply makes no sense.
There is no form of sarcasm in either of these statements.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:24:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Adonis 4174 on 14/06/2007 19:26:58
Originally by: Alpha Agent
Originally by: Adonis 4174 Given that "I could care less" is an insult...
No, it's not.
The correct phrase "I couldn't care less" is coined to mean "I don't care".
"I could care less" technically means "I do care a little", which simply makes no sense.
There is no form of sarcasm in either of these statements.
The correct phrase "I could care less" is an insult implying through sarcasm that you could not care less.
I will be charitable and assume you don't understand sarcasm. Have a nice day.
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Phoebus Athenian
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:25:00 -
[31]
/signed
I would most definately like to see people take the forums more seriously and post proper English. It is a certain cause of headaches, reading through tons of mangled posts.
As for people that don't have it as a mother tongue, well learn better English. It will be useful for your RL communication as well ;) ---
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Laxon
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:31:00 -
[32]
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Or rather...
According to a researcher (sic) at Cambridge University, it doesn't matter in what order the letters in a word are, the only important thing is that the first and last letter be at the right place. The rest can be a total mess and you can still read it without problem. This is because the human mind does not read every letter by itself but the word as a whole.
Its the internet, I dont expect everyone to spell and grammer check there flames, trolls, baits and occasionaly usefull posts. As long as its readable thats cool with me.

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Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Adonis 4174 The correct phrase "I could care less" is an insult implying through sarcasm that you could not care less. It is an insult.
I will be charitable and assume you don't understand sarcasm. Have a nice day.
You have indirectly answered my original post.
Through your "interesting" thoughts on sarcasm, I now understand that there are some who will never grasp simple concepts of language or dialect.
The only thing I can hope is that my original post might have persuaded one or two people to think more carefully before they post utter drivel on these forums.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:37:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 14/06/2007 19:36:46
Originally by: Alpha Agent The only thing I can hope is that my original post might have persuaded one or two people to think more carefully before they post utter drivel on these forums.
Or even go away until they know better and be reborn in an english speaking nation? 
Some people might not "crasp" the finetunings of the english language, probably because they don't use it daily.
I wouldn't be so quick to judge when you seem to have an inherit problem with people not worshipping english.
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |

Sha'Uri Dark
Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:38:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Alpha Agent
The only thing I can hope is that my original post might have persuaded one or two people to think more carefully before they post utter drivel on these forums.
You really think that an English/Grammar lesson will help stop people from posting utter drivel? Even a perfectly composed post can still be nothing but utter drivel.
Try again -------------------------------- As a Freelancer...scratch that Originally by: Shar Tegral Stop projecting your out of game beliefs of what society should be upon the rest of us.
said it best. |

Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:38:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Some people might not "crasp" the finetunings of the english language, probably because they don't use it daily.
Please, do me the simple courtesy of reading my original post before you reply.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:42:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Alpha Agent
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Some people might not "crasp" the finetunings of the english language, probably because they don't use it daily.
Please, do me the simple courtesy of reading my original post before you reply.
Yes but how do you differentiate the people? You can't see where they are from now can you?
You can't say "Some people type badly" and then say "Ofcourse this is only aimed at english types." when you can't tell which person is or isn't one.
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |

Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones You can't say "Some people type badly" and then say "Ofcourse this is only aimed at english types." when you can't tell which person is or isn't one.
Actually, I can quite easily tell the difference between someone who speaks bad English and someone who speaks good English badly.
Non-English native speakers might not use complex vocabulary and grammar, but they form their sentences well and generally put a good effort into their posts.
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Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:46:00 -
[39]
I could care less about the point you're making if you continue to complain about it.
The above sentence is grammatically correct. In other words, if you keep complaining, you risk making me care less about your cause.
A shorthand version would be, "I could care less....", where the rest of the sentence is implied.
Someone who couldn't care less doesn't care at all.
Someone who could care less is losing patience with you (and is probably being sarcastic or sardonic about it).
Automatically assume "I could care less" is simply sloppy grammar and you risk missing the point.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:48:00 -
[40]
So basically your discomfort on this matter is aimed at the native english people who don't use their own language correctly in some situations? That seems a bit futile, i would say, as the percentage this thread is actually aimed at, is miniscule.
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |

Wyehr
Shadow Of The Light R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:49:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Stoner Sid most of the mistakes are due to pure laziness or just quikness. tbh both are because people are at home and cudnt give a **** about grammer and just wanna laf 
I haven't exactly done studies on this or anything, but I don't know a single person who regularly reads professionally edited text that has problems with the your/you're or there/their/they're homophone groups. Problems spelling non-phonetic words seems to be another step or two out on the same axis.
P.S. I'm not normally into prescriptivism, but you need to understand that people do judge you by how you communicate.
[ 2007.03.18 18:45:59 ] (notify) Typhoon belonging to Gandolf self-destructs. |

Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:52:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 19:53:12
Originally by: Montague Zooma I could care less about the point you're making if you continue to complain about it.
That would be a correct use of the phrase, however I have never seen it used as such (and it is still devoid of sarcasm)
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Wyehr
Shadow Of The Light R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:55:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Montague Zooma I could care less about the point you're making if you continue to complain about it.
The above sentence is grammatically correct. In other words, if you keep complaining, you risk making me care less about your cause.
A shorthand version would be, "I could care less....", where the rest of the sentence is implied.
Someone who couldn't care less doesn't care at all.
Someone who could care less is losing patience with you (and is probably being sarcastic or sardonic about it).
Automatically assume "I could care less" is simply sloppy grammar and you risk missing the point.
Sorry. You can try to justify it all you want, but no one has ever since the dawn of time used the phrase "I could care less" in the way that you are suggesting.
(Look up hyperbole before you reply)
[ 2007.03.18 18:45:59 ] (notify) Typhoon belonging to Gandolf self-destructs. |

Johraiken Fenris
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:55:00 -
[44]
OP might want to add "there".
Johr
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LMAAAOOOO
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:58:00 -
[45]
Oh dear! Learn good English chaps!
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Angellyne
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:01:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Alpha Agent
Originally by: Adonis 4174 The correct phrase "I could care less" is an insult implying through sarcasm that you could not care less. It is an insult.
I will be charitable and assume you don't understand sarcasm. Have a nice day.
You have indirectly answered my original post.
Through your "interesting" thoughts on sarcasm, I now understand that there are some who will never grasp simple concepts of language or dialect.
The only thing I can hope is that my original post might have persuaded one or two people to think more carefully before they post utter drivel on these forums.
"I could care less!" "I should be so lucky!" "Tell me about it!"
All valid. As their actual meanings are the opposite of their literal meanings, they are sarcastic. Do some research, find out the origins of these and other slang phrases, and your mind may open.
By the way, your arrogance is irritating. If you want to help people write and speak correctly, good for you. However, appointing yourself the champion of correctness, particularly when arguing over slang phrases, makes the very people you might help more likely to ignore whatever lessons you have to offer.
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Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:04:00 -
[47]
I'd like to add that the plural of 'bonus' is 'bonuses', NOT "boni".
Unless you've lost some kind of bet and are obliged to make yourself seem simultaneously ignorant and pretentious on the internet or something. In which case, it's perfect.
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DaveW
Caldari South Park Development
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:07:00 -
[48]
I take pride in being able to talk good. ---------------------------------------------------
"If you can't stand the heat..., stay out of the Kitchen." |

Lavinrac Krad
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:09:00 -
[49]
You do know your, well I guess our (I hate claiming this as my native language, rather speak Spanish natively, hotter chicks) language, is basically the prostitute of languages and has so many other languages influencing its "proper grammar & spelling," that this language is nothing more than a bastardized mongrel?
Why should one care to speak a mongrel language properly? Seems pointless to me...
BTW- I am taking bets that the next language that fornicates with English will be Chinese.
Why donÆt you show us on the dolly where the bad miner touched you. -Thesas |

Keira Fordring
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:10:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Keira Fordring on 14/06/2007 20:09:43
Originally by: Alpha Agent Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 18:08:56
Originally by: Keira Fordring The only thing I disagree with is that a "character" can, in fact, be a "toon".
I understand from where your disagreement stems, however in the English language, "toon" is a colloquial shortening of "cartoon", the definition of which is universally accepted as an animation.
In American-adapted English, "toon" may refer to any number of animated characters in such an animation. Under no definition does "toon" apply to a non-animated character.
I can see why "toon" might be applicable in a game such as World of Warcraft, where your character could be defined as a "toon" under lax American English, however this terminology is not relevant to this game since your character is not animated (yet).
That is a good point except for the fact that "cartoon" does not implictly mean "animation". A cartoon can in fact be a simple sketch or drawing, neither of which have to be animated.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cartoon
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Coveney
Caldari Cold Jaguar Mining
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:12:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Alpha Agent Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 18:08:56
Originally by: Keira Fordring The only thing I disagree with is that a "character" can, in fact, be a "toon".
I understand from where your disagreement stems, however in the English language, "toon" is a colloquial shortening of "cartoon", the definition of which is universally accepted as an animation.
In American-adapted English, "toon" may refer to any number of animated characters in such an animation. Under no definition does "toon" apply to a non-animated character.
I can see why "toon" might be applicable in a game such as World of Warcraft, where your character could be defined as a "toon" under lax American English, however this terminology is not relevant to this game since your character is not animated (yet).
You do not need it to be animated to be call a toon, a toon is a drawing of any character or someone not considered real, like in real life. Cartoons are 3D, 2D and in books they are not animated only drawn. _______________________ |

DaveW
Caldari South Park Development
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:13:00 -
[52]
"Why should one care to speak a mongrel language properly? Seems pointless to me..."
Well... I guess because it sets us apart from Mongrel people. ---------------------------------------------------
"If you can't stand the heat..., stay out of the Kitchen." |

MassonA
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:13:00 -
[53]
So I would be correct in thinking that when I type with correct grammar and punctuation, it helps you, as an Englishman, to read my typed word easier?
so whats different with how this is typed? im sure you can still read it just fine, im also sure people from other countries can also read it fine
but otherwise, i agree that people just dont care about spelling anymore - but i dont think that grammar matters that much 
no mods please |

Damares
Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:14:00 -
[54]
tbh i find it easier to read poorly written text than formal rubbish, reading what you write requires thinking and that is not what i play on the computer for 
as people have said, it just makes you look up tight, if it makes sense and is readable then there is no problem imo. people don't need to right perfect english, as long as the point is convey'd then i can't see where your problem lies unless of course, you are up tight.
for people who's first language is english then writing gibberish is usualy understandable between one another,im sure i probably speak more gramaticaly correct in other languages than i do in english, atleast when typing. a friend of mine's first language is chinese, he infact only scored mediocre on a chinese speaking test (to be fair he is a rather lazy speaker. but never the less to prove a point) as there is a major difference between actualy chatting a language and saying all the rubbish required to make it sound good.
another problem with talking on the internet is it is much easier to make typo's and im sure there are some in this (and ive tried to avoid them ) as it it is far far easier to make a misstake typing english than it is when writing.
finaly, people dont come on the internet to spend all their time worrying about how good their english is, they come to have fun, spending 5 minutes checking everything you write isnt fun.... 
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Alpha Agent
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:19:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 20:19:40 I guess I am uptight, because it angers me to see the English language get butchered and mistaken by the very people who are supposed to speak it.
I appreciate that this might seem arrogant to some.
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Nocturnal Avenger
The Ankou The Reckoning.
|
Posted - 2007.06.14 20:23:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Alpha Agent Your means "Your", referring to something you possess, such as "Your character is a dirty Minmatar"
WTF !!!!!????
You silly son of a amarr person...
- Carebear Pirate - |

Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:32:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Adonis 4174 on 14/06/2007 20:31:18 The problem, Alpha, is that you are wrong in a material respect and you refuse to acknowledge this. There are two grammatically correct ways to use "I could care less." alone to denote a lack of interest. The first is sarcasm, best defined by Angellyne above. The second is as an aposiopesis.
If you don't know what that long word means, it's what you do when you tell someone "Stop it or else." - that is not a complete sentence but it is grammatically correct. Likewise, "I could care less." can mean what Montague Zooma said above. Either way the message is clear. The message is "Shut up, I don't want to hear this".
Denying this because it weakens your standing makes you seem arrogant as well as ignorant. As was said above, English is a complex* language, so not knowing every detail of it is hardly a source of shame. Let that point slide, I'm with you on the rest.
*The term I usually use would be caught by the censorbot. It begins with a B and means mixed.
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:36:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Malcanis I'd like to add that the plural of 'bonus' is 'bonuses', NOT "boni".
It is in my house, anyone using bonuses or buses or crocuses has to sleep in the cold damp coal celler.
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2007.06.14 20:45:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 14/06/2007 20:44:45 @OP : new french web-sms-written slang is horrible to read aswell. It's a habit youth have, so now they stick to it so badly that I can see mails at work written like what you describe, in french.
I think internet made people lazy to even pull a pen. And they read crap all day : they take habits. That can't be solved with "ooh people should use proper grammar", people won't mind.
Just don't read their crap :)
- edit - ooooh profanity filter you loolzor i roxzorz eleventytwelve -----
History is made by whinners
Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
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Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.06.14 20:56:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Andrue on 14/06/2007 20:56:49 Edited by: Andrue on 14/06/2007 20:55:51
Originally by: Laxon Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Yesearthandbeyondprovedspacesareveryimportant.
The V'rix used a crappy vowel substitution code which on it's own is no big deal:
Th3s 3sn't t44 h1rd to r21d r21lly.
But apparently they were so advanced that they didn't need spaces either:
B5tth3s3s1l4tm4r2d3ff3c5lt.
Speed readers can take in a sentence in one glance by spotting keywords. The very fast speed readers can take in entire paragraphs. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
This is not a signature |

Thesas
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:01:00 -
[61]
You must realize that many non English speakers have difficulty speaking, much less writing, in anything other than formal. Idioms, contractions, and slang are not things easily learned in your second or third language. I do not use casual English well.
It is not that we are ôuptightö, for we can converse at any level in our native language, but when learned in a formal college, it will be apparent to anyone reading what we write.
I was amazed when I read the Eve player guide and noticed the first word under ôtips and tricksö is misspelled.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:12:00 -
[62]
I endorse this thread. However, it probably belongs elsewhere...
------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |

Demarcus
Project Gemini EternalRising
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:17:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Alpha Agent Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 18:08:56
Originally by: Keira Fordring The only thing I disagree with is that a "character" can, in fact, be a "toon".
I understand from where your disagreement stems, however in the English language, "toon" is a colloquial shortening of "cartoon", the definition of which is universally accepted as an animation.
In American-adapted English, "toon" may refer to any number of animated characters in such an animation. Under no definition does "toon" apply to a non-animated character.
I can see why "toon" might be applicable in a game such as World of Warcraft, where your character could be defined as a "toon" under lax American English, however this terminology is not relevant to this game since your character is not animated (yet).
Cartoons were around literally hundreds of years before animation. Cartoons are in fact static images. Animation is cartoons (single static frames) in motion. So in fact my characters portrait is a toon. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
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Robert Dobbs
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:26:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Robert Dobbs on 14/06/2007 21:25:05 "toon" is a terrible word and it is a word I generally associate with character traders (oh look mum, I bought a new character every month! aren't I cool!).
I don't think the word "toon" is technically even a word in English, is it?
--------- <Talon`dor|Work> Arma - yeah but we call BNC dirty boosterhoes |

Starquinia
Minmatar Starfield United Technologies LLP
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:41:00 -
[65]
Funny enough, a lot of the OPs points are in a nice article called "10 flagrant grammar mistakes that make you look stupid".
I prefer avatar to "toon". Using toon lacks style. -------------------------------------- See the Eve History Wiki, where YOU won the GNW!
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:50:00 -
[66]
Toon makes me think of furry fetishism and that upsets me. ----- English is a complex language. Use it as best you can. |

Brackun
Pilots Of Honour
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:51:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Adonis 4174 Toon makes me think of furry fetishism and that upsets me.
Yeah. _________ Don't use the word "toon" to refer to your character, people find this irritating and it may label you a mentally handicapped individual. |

Cowboy Nuggets
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:11:00 -
[68]
This is a crap thread...I've got news for you, this is the internet. In internet culture people don't use proper english, nor do they care about it. Hell, you should consider yourself lucky if someone uses punctuation in their post! Most people don't post in forums the same way they speak, and as well educated as you try to come off you should know that. News flash for you here too: people on the internet also lingo such as "lol, qft, imho, etc..."
Also, I have a pointer for you. Forums are divided into catagories, and you choose where to put your post according to those catagories. You decided to post this thread in Eve General Discussion, when it obviously has nothing to do with Eve, generally... You should have posted this in the Off Topic section, aka Out of Pod Experience, since this is obviously off topic. I guess this eluded you, even with your sophisticated english skills that seem to put you on a high horse above everyone else.
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Ryan Scouse'UK
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:20:00 -
[69]
to the OP .. GO fu** ur self.. & ur little CAT to..
This is EVE.. not school now be GONE!
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Mari Onette
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:29:00 -
[70]
Olny srmat poelpe can do tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!
/If you can't figure out someone ment you're instead of your by the context they use the word in, there is something wrong with your brain.
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Cowboy Nuggets
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:31:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Mari Onette Olny srmat poelpe can do tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!
/If you can't figure out someone ment you're instead of your by the context they use the word in, there is something wrong with your brain.
It is true...
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:40:00 -
[72]
By the way, Cambridge university never carried out the research claimed. ----- English is a complex language. Use it as best you can. |

Ekscalybur
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:46:00 -
[73]
Probably already posted, but turrents drives me bananas.
I'm so happy I don't see it much in this game. Playing Tribes used to make me go absolutely ape**** though, lol.
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Manus Stuprare
DN Cloning Division
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:50:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Mari Onette If you can't figure out someone ment you're instead of your by the context they use the word in, there is something wrong with your brain.
See, it's not a question of whether or not you *can* figure out what's meant, it's a question of whether you should have to.
Forums like this are an instance of one-to-many communication. If the (one) writer doesn't put in the effort to make his post easy to understand, then the (many) readers have to put in more effort to understand it. That adds up to much more work overall. In my opinion (which seems to be shared by lots of people in this thread) it's just horribly bad manners to write in a way that's slack, lazy and hard to read. People who do so are effectively saying "my time is worth more than that of everyone else added up", which is *vastly* more arrogant than anything said by the OP. -------------- Poisoning the Chalice: Smartbombs as a Counter to Nos. |

Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:54:00 -
[75]
Unfortunately, when not quite in a focused state of mind, slips like the they're/their/there happen to the best of people.
Some say it's a sign of the impending apocalypse. --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
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Cowboy Nuggets
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:56:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Manus Stuprare
Originally by: Mari Onette If you can't figure out someone ment you're instead of your by the context they use the word in, there is something wrong with your brain.
See, it's not a question of whether or not you *can* figure out what's meant, it's a question of whether you should have to.
Forums like this are an instance of one-to-many communication. If the (one) writer doesn't put in the effort to make his post easy to understand, then the (many) readers have to put in more effort to understand it. That adds up to much more work overall. In my opinion (which seems to be shared by lots of people in this thread) it's just horribly bad manners to write in a way that's slack, lazy and hard to read. People who do so are effectively saying "my time is worth more than that of everyone else added up", which is *vastly* more arrogant than anything said by the OP.
Um, no. The things mentioned by the OP were nitpicky little bull****, NOT anything that would take any sort of effort whatsoever to decode what they were trying to say. If it does take you any *effort* to understand, then you my friend have some problems beyond the help we are able to offer in this forum.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Sanctuary
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:59:00 -
[77]
It's impossible to fix stupid, and I gave up on willful ignorance pridefully inflicted on the community a long time ago.
Among the things guaranteed to make sure I don't read what you have to say or dismiss you out of hand are excessively using "leet" shorthand, lazy typing, gratuitous misspellings, atrocious grammar and spittle-flecked rants peppered with any or all of the above.
And really, don't bother to defend poor communication skills as part of some "culture". I'm part of the so-called "internet culture" and have been since its inception, and I refuse to accept that said culture is defined by those who can't communicate with their own species and take some kind of obscure pride in that fact.
Explorer? Join SEARCh today!
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Dread Phantom
Caldari Project-Chaos
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Posted - 2007.06.14 23:03:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Angellyne
Originally by: Alpha Agent
Originally by: Adonis 4174 The correct phrase "I could care less" is an insult implying through sarcasm that you could not care less. It is an insult.
I will be charitable and assume you don't understand sarcasm. Have a nice day.
You have indirectly answered my original post.
Through your "interesting" thoughts on sarcasm, I now understand that there are some who will never grasp simple concepts of language or dialect.
The only thing I can hope is that my original post might have persuaded one or two people to think more carefully before they post utter drivel on these forums.
"I could care less!" "I should be so lucky!" "Tell me about it!"
All valid. As their actual meanings are the opposite of their literal meanings, they are sarcastic. Do some research, find out the origins of these and other slang phrases, and your mind may open.
By the way, your arrogance is irritating. If you want to help people write and speak correctly, good for you. However, appointing yourself the champion of correctness, particularly when arguing over slang phrases, makes the very people you might help more likely to ignore whatever lessons you have to offer.
  
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.14 23:07:00 -
[79]
How's about a compromise?
If you care about people reading what you have to say, put effort into saying it properly. If not, don't. Your call.
If you want to whine about people not typing things properly, get a life and stop wasting effort reading stuff people can't be bothered to type properly.
As for easily readable, I got a message recently saying "thanks for no going shops" - care to guess what this person was wittering about? ----- English is a complex language. Use it as best you can. |

Letheeth Kayl
Amarr Chosen Path FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.14 23:08:00 -
[80]
! iz ah-murkun. ! thpeek engrash goot. Actually, I try to make it a point to keep my grammar and punctuation as good as I can get them (though my sentence structure and asides get out of hand all the time). As an Ex-WoW player, I always detested the the shortening and destruction of decent grammar, and it amused me how proper punctuation confused people in that game. I stand by the phrase "'toon", which is alot easier to type than "Character" and can be used along with alt. Both of which I picked up from WoW, where speed is more important than accuracy. As some people in the EvE comuntiy play/played WoW, it's natural for some words to cross over.
As an American, I'm rather self-centered in thinking that the way I learned to speak out here in California (mit der Govenator) is the right way to speak, and everyone else (especially the English) talk funny. The South is exempt from this because Southerners are by and large decent, friendly, and, in general, awesome people, and I'm familiar with the way they talk. Y'all and All Y'all are common in my vocabulary.
One last note, I learned almost all my grammar (after they stopped teaching grammar in grammar school in favor of Multiple Choice Standardized tests, /me flips the bird at George W. Bush) from my German and Arabic studies. You can't learn a grammar rule in another language wihtout learning it's counterpart in your native tongue first.
Whahlkum ter Murkah, learn ter spake ENGRASH!
Put down the mirror and return to live With pain With sin With despair Live with penance in God's glory Lesson of Tobias and the Mirror Scriptures Verses26-29 |

Mifter Hogdido
Amarr The 0ri
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Posted - 2007.06.14 23:22:00 -
[81]
I have not read through the entire thread and wont, but I do feel the need to say something.
I am not a perfect English speaker or typer, but one thing that truly annoys me is when little children use "teh" instead of "the" the proper way. Seriously, it is getting ridiculous, it does not sound "cool" it does not make you look "cool" or "l33t", it just shows plain immaturity in my view. 
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Manus Stuprare
DN Cloning Division
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Posted - 2007.06.14 23:24:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Cowboy Nuggets Um, no. The things mentioned by the OP were nitpicky little bull****, NOT anything that would take any sort of effort whatsoever to decode what they were trying to say. If it does take you any *effort* to understand, then you my friend have some problems beyond the help we are able to offer in this forum.
Not sure why you felt the need to resort to a personal attack, perhaps you'd care to comment on that?
Looking back at the OP some of it is a bit picky maybe, but I think my point is still valid. Reading always takes some effort, reading misspelled or badly composed sentences obviously takes more. For instance, when I read "ur" the first thing my brain comes up with sounds like "oor", there's a bit of a double take before I decipher it into "you are". -------------- Poisoning the Chalice: Smartbombs as a Counter to Nos. |

Cowboy Nuggets
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.06.14 23:36:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Manus Stuprare
Originally by: Cowboy Nuggets Um, no. The things mentioned by the OP were nitpicky little bull****, NOT anything that would take any sort of effort whatsoever to decode what they were trying to say. If it does take you any *effort* to understand, then you my friend have some problems beyond the help we are able to offer in this forum.
Not sure why you felt the need to resort to a personal attack, perhaps you'd care to comment on that?
Looking back at the OP some of it is a bit picky maybe, but I think my point is still valid. Reading always takes some effort, reading misspelled or badly composed sentences obviously takes more. For instance, when I read "ur" the first thing my brain comes up with sounds like "oor", there's a bit of a double take before I decipher it into "you are".
I didn't mean to personally attack anyone, what part was the attack?
Also, I agree about badly composed sentences that are virtually unreadable. However, that was not the the subject of this thread. The subject of this thread was people forgetting to put apostrophes in conjunctions I believe.
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Zaphod Jones
Minmatar Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.14 23:37:00 -
[84]
can we bring back floggings too ?(and not just for Amarr)
...and people that end a sentence with a preposition need to be publicly shat on.
oh ..bugger !  
Anarchy Empire is recruiting US/OZ Corps
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Redbad
Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion
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Posted - 2007.06.14 23:42:00 -
[85]
Honour or honor?
join us today! |

Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.15 00:01:00 -
[86]
You missed should of I'm not english but I do believe the textbook still says should have or should've despite them chavs best efforts.
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Manus Stuprare
DN Cloning Division
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Posted - 2007.06.15 00:03:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Cowboy Nuggets I didn't mean to personally attack anyone, what part was the attack?
Originally by: Cowboy Nuggets If it does take you any *effort* to understand, then you my friend have some problems beyond the help we are able to offer in this forum.
Looks pretty personal to me :p
Originally by: Cowboy Nuggets Also, I agree about badly composed sentences that are virtually unreadable. However, that was not the the subject of this thread. The subject of this thread was people forgetting to put apostrophes in conjunctions I believe.
It seemed to me that the thread had already broadened to a more general spelling/grammar discussion than that encompassed by the OP.
Even so, stuff like "your" instead of "you're" is uncomfortable and jarring for me to read. -------------- Poisoning the Chalice: Smartbombs as a Counter to Nos. |

DarkFenix
Caldari Pilots Of Honour
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Posted - 2007.06.15 00:18:00 -
[88]
To be honest I agree somewhat with the OP. I really dislike these stupid little mistakes (usually with the exception of missing apostrophes), particularly when the people making them seem not to know better.
The standard of spoken and written English is getting pretty appalling (generally in countries that natively speak English ironically) and it's a bit sad that I know a great many foreigners who speak English a lot better than many English people I know.
On a seperate note, American English does bug me a fair bit, not in it's existance itself though. Dialects are bound to be created with any widely used language. What bugs me is when I get Americans telling me I'm not writing correctly, when I'm in fact using 'proper' English (ie. English English). We invented the damned language, our version of it is therefore 'proper', yours is a dialect, it is "American English", not just "English" (yes, I'm aware I'm being an utterly arrogant b*****d, but meh, I take pride in my country and things associated with it, one of which is our language).
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Snake Jankins
Minmatar Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.15 00:28:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 15/06/2007 00:29:42
Originally by: Redbad Honour or honor?
First is UK, 2nd is American English, at least that was what I was taught in school. But don't ask me, I'm German. I thought it's that way for all those words like colour vs. color. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |

Manus Stuprare
DN Cloning Division
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Posted - 2007.06.15 00:31:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Manus Stuprare on 15/06/2007 00:31:14
Originally by: Cowboy Nuggets It was NOT an attack, I want to help you, but it's beyond my ability. Try going here, they can help: http://www.ocfoundation.org/
LOL!
I've been on and around the 'net waaaay too long to be either obsessive or compulsive about this stuff :) I rarely bother to post in threads like this, must've seen a hundred of them, and none made the slightest bit of difference. The only reason I posted in this one is that (the lack of) manners has been a bit of a recurring theme in my life this week, and suppose I felt the need to vent a bit.
Thanks for your concern though! 
-------------- Poisoning the Chalice: Smartbombs as a Counter to Nos. |

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.06.15 00:31:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Alpha Agent Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 18:34:59 As a dedicated EVE player and as an Englishman, I am truly disappointed by the level of sophistication this community shows in their manner and in their forum postings. This community is (or at least, was) alleged to be a community of well educated players, and it is simply not showing these days.
This is NOT aimed at those of you who don't speak English natively; rather it is aimed at those who claim to be native English speakers (and usually show a poorer understanding of basic grammar and spelling than those who aren't).
So without further ado, some pointers for you.
- You're means "You are"
- Your means "Your", referring to something you possess, such as "Your character is a dirty Minmatar"
- They're means "They are"
- Their means "Their", referring to something somebody else (a group, entity, or unknown number of person(s)) posesses, as in "Their alliance isn't worth its weight in Veldspar"
- it's means "it is"
- its means "its", referring to a property or possession of something, for example "I stabbed its face with my fork"
- A character is NOT a "toon"
- "I could care less" is incorrect, the phrase is "I couldn't care less". Think about the meaning of the phrase.
I don't claim to be a perfect English speaker, however it really does upset me when folks use one of the above terms incorrectly whilst trying to "one-up" their enemies on these forums. It is often apparent which side is giving the more educated responses by the way that they portray their thoughts.
~Alpha
I could care less. You're toon is rubbish.
SKUNK
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Cowboy Nuggets
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.06.15 00:37:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Manus Stuprare Edited by: Manus Stuprare on 15/06/2007 00:31:14
Originally by: Cowboy Nuggets It was NOT an attack, I want to help you, but it's beyond my ability. Try going here, they can help: http://www.ocfoundation.org/
LOL!
I've been on and around the 'net waaaay too long to be either obsessive or compulsive about this stuff :) I rarely bother to post in threads like this, must've seen a hundred of them, and none made the slightest bit of difference. The only reason I posted in this one is that (the lack of) manners has been a bit of a recurring theme in my life this week, and suppose I felt the need to vent a bit.
Thanks for your concern though! 
No problem, I'm here for you brother! I'm outta this thread now, this is beyond boring and should be moved to off topic.
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Conrad Bland
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Posted - 2007.06.15 00:41:00 -
[93]
To the OP: Your fighting a loosing battle.
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Liliane Woodhead
Intergalactic Charwomen
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Posted - 2007.06.15 00:55:00 -
[94]
Yes i agree .... and please clap down the toilet seat after use
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Maglorre
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Posted - 2007.06.15 01:23:00 -
[95]
Just to add more fuel to the fire... it's a MOOT point, not a MUTE point (although perhaps people should be making more mute points so we don't have to listen to them). That one always makes my eyelid start twitching and then I have to find some carebear and kill them to make it stop.
So you can see from this that poor language skills increases violence. Pay attention in class children!
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Felsaiin
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Posted - 2007.06.15 01:36:00 -
[96]
I zpeek dweebish berry well tzankyouz.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.06.15 02:46:00 -
[97]
Ur is the name of a city in Mesopotamia!
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.15 02:49:00 -
[98]
meh, I speak Canadian anyway... not english
Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon!
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Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.15 04:07:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Wyehr
Originally by: Montague Zooma I could care less about the point you're making if you continue to complain about it.
The above sentence is grammatically correct. In other words, if you keep complaining, you risk making me care less about your cause.
A shorthand version would be, "I could care less....", where the rest of the sentence is implied.
Someone who couldn't care less doesn't care at all.
Someone who could care less is losing patience with you (and is probably being sarcastic or sardonic about it).
Automatically assume "I could care less" is simply sloppy grammar and you risk missing the point.
Sorry. You can try to justify it all you want, but no one has ever since the dawn of time used the phrase "I could care less" in the way that you are suggesting.
(Look up hyperbole before you reply)
You're assuming that since you know of no one who uses "I could care less" correctly (and apparently can't imagine yourself being capable of doing so), then no one uses it correctly.
Look up "hasty generalization".
I'm not claiming every use of the phrase is proper, just pointing out that it's foolish to assume everyone who says it is misusing it.
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar FSK23
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Posted - 2007.06.15 04:20:00 -
[100]
It is the same thing as the "big wall of text".
If you want to post something and therefor want others to actually read it, don't make it intentionally / unnecessarily hard for them to read it. That means follow basic grammar and press enter once in a while. Common courtesy and decency.
If you don't want people to read your post - don't post it. And work on expanding your attention span if you are a part of the "TL;DR" crowd. Actually, do you switch to a different channel during a commercial because it is too long to grasp it as a whole? Just curious.
-- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |

Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.15 07:06:00 -
[101]
I have to admit, even though I'm not a native English speaker, I also am worried about the general lack of language skills.
When people excuse their bad typing by saying it's due to quick typing, most of the time it's just an excuse. Sure, sometimes there's a gun held to your head and you just have to type real fast, but most of the times it's just plain laziness.
At best I can type approximately 540 letters per minute with all words with typos (or typoes?) disqualified, which goes to say that speed itself is not neccessarily an obstacle to proper spelling. On the other hand, when I'm drunk, I still type properly most of the time; it just takes extra effort to spell check before hitting enter.
So it's not that people, for external reasons, couldn't improve but that they just are not motivated to. Personally I believe that thoughts, and therefore consciousness is based on language -- symbolic representation of ideas and concepts. As such, to improve one's quality of thinking one must improve his or her quality of operating with words; that is, written and spoken language.
In this way, language serves as means of self-improvement for the intellectually motivated. Ask any writer how to become a good writer and they will tell you to "write, write, write and then write some more". What's more, upkeeping good language is also both directly and indirectly beneficial in a myriad of ways in life in general, especially for those with academic endeavours.
Therefore it's a shame that people waste so much time not paying attention to language when with little effort they could make great use of it. Ultimately, everyone is of course responsible for their own life and choices, and universally laziness undermines ambitions and achievement. Those who put in more effort always succeed better.
P.S. Loose is an adjective describing the state of something being free from restraints or lax while to lose means to fail at or come to be without something.
Oh and why is it that people almost more often than not fail to spell kieron and deimos correctly?  ---
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Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.15 07:37:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: Malcanis I'd like to add that the plural of 'bonus' is 'bonuses', NOT "boni".
It is in my house, anyone using bonuses or buses or crocuses has to sleep in the cold damp coal celler.
Do you ever find you'reself running to catch bi?
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.06.15 07:46:00 -
[103]
A small addition to the OP. 1. "There" is also used in place of "their", "they're" 2. What I hate most of all, is when someone says "of" instead of "have". f.ex. "of been" instead of "have been", "of done" instead of "have done".
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.06.15 07:51:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 15/06/2007 07:52:30
While I do wish there was a generally greater level of language skills shown on the forums (indeed the internet as a whole) I think to an extent some latitude needs to be given.
As mentioned many who post here are not native english speakers (although many of those in fact write better than many native english speakers). Additionally there is no sobriety test for posting.
Most of the time a post can be deciphered and if you are posting a line or two of text I do not think it such a big deal if the language is mangled a bit. However, if you are posting some lengthy piece then greater care should be given. Or rather, the more serious you are about the long notion you just wrote down the harder one should try to make it readable.
I will say more than spelling mistakes it is punctuation mistakes that throw me off the most. Commas are probably most commonly overlooked...learn to love them folks, they help readability a lot. Then there is the WALL of text. <ENTER> key is everyone's friend. Learn to love it too. And finally there is l33t speak. For my part I literally ignore it when I see it and move on. If I try I can decipher it but it is not second nature to me and if you can't be arsed to write like someone over age 8 I won't bother and your message is lost.
To the OP "toon" is correct usage. See your picture to the left above my name? That can be deemed a cartoon and "toon" is but a shortening of that. Whether you like it or not is another matter.
If you cannot say what you mean then you cannot mean what you say.
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Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2007.06.15 07:55:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Skraeling Shortbus on 15/06/2007 07:57:37 Edited by: Skraeling Shortbus on 15/06/2007 07:55:01 This is an internet forum, as such who really cares if proper grammar and spelling are adhered to in the strictest fashion. If the post is at least readable, does it matter? Depending on how fast I wish to bang out a thought(s) I will amazingly enough forget to capitalize my "i"s (?) and to some extent bash grammar over the head with a club full of nails. This is not being turned in for a grade, review, job, etc... so honestly, sod off.
Though for such things as guides or faqs of course one should proof read the hell out of it.
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Kimiko Kurosawa
The Krugerrand Groupies
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Posted - 2007.06.15 07:59:00 -
[106]
I can forgive typos and the like, but txt spk must be punishable by death.
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Lucy Light
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Posted - 2007.06.15 08:09:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Lucy Light on 15/06/2007 08:09:59 hello
Your very clever indeed providing us with all this information, so thank you. you're information has been extremely useful to help me improve my english
I understand what you are saying about people who can't write english and the need of educate them. They're english has to be be improved. their can't play eve without being able to to communicate.
its too soon to see any improvement thou and it may take a little while.
then again, we will soon many toons who will be able to speak properly.
actually.. just changed my mind: I could care less if some people can speak english properly. their can still shoot and get killed
yarrrr!!!


Lucy, under the street Light
- Everytime you shoot me, CCP kills a carebear. - Could somebody please think of the carebears? |

Cygnus Zhada
Amarr RennTech Hell Hounds
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Posted - 2007.06.15 08:13:00 -
[108]
Actually he does have a point. At times I have more trouble understanding a native English speaking person on TS/Vent than someone who's first language isn't English and that's not because they might be talking Irish or Scottish. It's because they just talk rubbish.
Same with their spelling and no, my first language is NOT English.
Yes, I use lasers, please stop laughing in the back. |

Comex
The Legion. Requiem-Aeternam
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Posted - 2007.06.15 08:39:00 -
[109]
You always find these posts sooner or later.
English is not a dead language, it is evolving and changing. Why? because we start to make shortcuts and find new ways to do things, in language just as in other parts of our lives.
This process has been speed up with first the introduction of mass communication and later the Internet, cell phones etc.. It is a natural process, you cannot freeze this!
So I suggest for the OP that you should care less. English of today is not the same as 100 years ago and will for sure not be the same in 100 years. There should be multiple issues in the world which should trouble you A LOT more than this one!
Another point about the OP, you talk about native English speakers, and then you point to some written grammar points. This contradiction points to one thing I think you haven't thought of, is that even we type in what we communicate, the environment we do this, is a friendly casual one, similar to hanging out with your friends drinking Guinness, so to be casual with grammars is THE natural thing to do.
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Enraku Reynolt
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.06.15 08:48:00 -
[110]
I know not what ever be you're problem, Me is thankin I be speakin the greats english But I makes the deal with yous. When forum posting what earns me the college credit hours, then I makes effort at least somewhats to perfect me grammar
------------------------------------------------ Do not let the world change you. Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the same |

Sean Hernandez
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Posted - 2007.06.15 08:52:00 -
[111]
Look's like we've got ourselves a reader... we love you Bill 
I try not to use too much slang because many of the people I associate with in game have english as a second language. The horror of a northern Irish accent on TS is not something I want to inflict on people reading my writing too.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |

Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.15 09:01:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Frug on 15/06/2007 09:02:15 I have to add one I see on these forums all the time:
"Would of" instead of "would have"
It's "I would have destroyed that frigate if my shields were boosting" not "would of"
I think it's because people hear the short form "would've" which is short for would have, and then somehow cheat their way through grade school english without ever learning what a short form is.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |

Woddawick
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Posted - 2007.06.15 09:19:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Snake Jankins Edited by: Snake Jankins on 15/06/2007 00:29:42
Originally by: Redbad Honour or honor?
First is UK, 2nd is American English, at least that was what I was taught in school. But don't ask me, I'm German. I thought it's that way for all those words like colour vs. color.
Yah. I think I read somewhere that some of the differences in spelling are deliberate and date back to shortly after the War of Indepedance. The idea was to reinforce the sense of independance by being different.
It sounds unlikely but according to Wikipedia the WoI causes Americans to convert from mostly tea drinkers to mostly coffee drinkers and the Britons did the opposite.
As for pronunciation differences American English tends to lag behind British English. We Britons used to say "miss-ull" but changed to "miss-ile". Either Americans are still trying to be different or else they are just slower to catch up 
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.15 09:20:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe A small addition to the OP. 1. "There" is also used in place of "their", "they're" 2. What I hate most of all, is when someone says "of" instead of "have". f.ex. "of been" instead of "have been", "of done" instead of "have done".
What I hate most is people using 'physically' instead of 'actually' and other such abuses. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
This is not a signature |

Macy Capham
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Posted - 2007.06.15 10:19:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Malcanis I'd like to add that the plural of 'bonus' is 'bonuses', NOT "boni".
Unless you've lost some kind of bet and are obliged to make yourself seem simultaneously ignorant and pretentious on the internet or something. In which case, it's perfect.
You can if you want to write it in latin
C/Ped from wiktionary: From Latin bonus, good.
Because Latin has gender, this would mean "a good man (male)". Properly formed, the word should be bonum (neuter gender), meaning "a good thing". This would be parallel to the many other neuter gender words adopted into English, like maximum, minimum, premium, optimum. Its plural would then be bona or Bonii.
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Liliane Woodhead
Intergalactic Charwomen
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Posted - 2007.06.15 12:14:00 -
[116]
Where are all these Gallente ?
Fight the englishman ! Stop bunnies from >their< world conquest campaign.
Oh excuse, the G8 meeting is over.
P.S: sometimes content is worser than the look of a text. I'm still not yet deep enough in the sense of this thread. Yesterday i thought it was educational. Today i tend from whining about motherspeak to political problems with the globalization process.
Please CCP stop localization of the UI ! .... comes tomorrow ?
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.15 12:57:00 -
[117]
So correctly we should replace the word Bonus with Bonum and let the plural be Bona
Or we can keep abusing the words we adopt into our own language and keep it as is. ----- English is a complex language. Use it as best you can. |

ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.15 13:05:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Adonis 4174 So correctly we should replace the word Bonus with Bonum and let the plural be Bona
Or we can keep abusing the words we adopt into our own language and keep it as is.
wenever ladiez ask me 2 bonum i get a bona.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.15 13:19:00 -
[119]
That is a very good reason to leave bonus the hell alone. ----- English is a complex language. Use it as best you can. |

Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.06.15 13:22:00 -
[120]
Originally by: DarkFenix To be honest I agree somewhat with the OP. [...] American English does bug me a fair bit, not in it's existance [...] I take pride in my country and things associated with it, one of which is our language).
ouch!
Anyway, thanks to the OP for addressing this. I am a firm believer in the theory that spelling is learnt almost exclusively through reading and the extremely bad quality of written English in this forum (esp. by more active posters) causes a lot of harm.
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ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.15 14:52:00 -
[121]
Edited by: ry ry on 15/06/2007 14:51:26
Originally by: Pan Crastus the extremely bad quality of written English in this forum (esp. by more active posters) causes a lot of harm.
i'd take a well considered point spelled rong over empty, but gramatically correct, words any day of the week.
then again, most of the posters on here shouldn't be allowed to form opinions in the first place, let alone share them with other people.
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Ralara
Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.15 14:54:00 -
[122]
Originally by: D Jed i dont know what your talking about. its really not so big a deal when someone messes up on there grammar a little. maybe your a little too obsessed over toons and theyre write to speak however they want
hehe you used the correct "too" 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.15 15:40:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Alpha Agent "I could care less" is incorrect, the phrase is "I couldn't care less". Think about the meaning of the phrase.
Well, I could care less about people who spell things wrong.  Meanwhile, I'm a part-time grammar fascist. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |

LittleTerror
Caldari kleptomaniacs
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Posted - 2007.06.15 15:49:00 -
[124]
Quote: "I could care less" is incorrect, the phrase is "I couldn't care less". Think about the meaning of the phrase.
Is the one I hate because it doesn't sound right when you read it, however everything else I couldn't give a crap about, since its mostly just done for speed. |

Sebesto
Minmatar Destination Unknown
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Posted - 2007.06.15 15:55:00 -
[125]
Im american, therefor i no spek englush. i spek american. 
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Xtreem
Gallente Quechua Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.15 16:01:00 -
[126]
i would like to add to this excellent thread.
my spelling is very bad, my grammar is also very bad
i am English Born and bread
This is a game, making quick posts on a forum about a game is not going to rank highly on things to "get perfect" as i am dislexia and the above mentioned traits are heavily effected.
Just becuase i am bad at these things does not make me stupid or un-educated, i have a family, a daughter, a long term gf, a degree and hold a very well paid job and speak excellently.
please do not judge people on somthing as low as spelling. It just, well rude!
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Trovax
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.15 16:04:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Trovax on 15/06/2007 16:02:43
Originally by: Stoner Sid
Originally by: Alpha Agent
So without further ado, some pointers for you.
- You're means "You are"
- Your means "Your", referring to something you possess, such as "Your character is a dirty Minmatar"
- They're means "They are"
- Their means "Their", referring to something somebody else (a group, entity, or unknown number of person(s)) posesses, as in "Their alliance isn't worth its weight in Veldspar"
- it's means "it is"
- its means "its", referring to a property or possession of something, for example "I stabbed its face with my fork"
- A character is NOT a "toon"
- "I could care less" is incorrect, the phrase is "I couldn't care less". Think about the meaning of the phrase.
~Alpha
some pointers for you....
ur = you're ur = your theyre = they're their = their its = it's a toon can be refered to as a char i cudnt give a flying **** is a correct way of saying that phrase you also need to get a life and maybe stop being an english teacher
most of the mistakes are due to pure laziness or just quikness. tbh both are because people are at home and cudnt give a **** about grammer and just wanna laf 
/sig'd (metaphorically)<----did i spell that write...er i mean right.
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |

Trovax
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.15 16:06:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Trovax on 15/06/2007 16:05:18 Edited by: Trovax on 15/06/2007 16:05:04
Originally by: Xtreem i would like to add to this excellent thread.
my spelling is very bad, my grammar is also very bad
i am English Born and bread
This is a game, making quick posts on a forum about a game is not going to rank highly on things to "get perfect" as i am dislexia and the above mentioned traits are heavily effected.
Just becuase i am bad at these things does not make me stupid or un-educated, i have a family, a daughter, a long term gf, a degree and hold a very well paid job and speak excellently.
please do not judge people on somthing as low as spelling. It just, well rude!
I do not believe this was a rant about dislexic people. In fact it dosent read like that at all. Its about lazyness me thinks.
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |

Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.06.15 16:29:00 -
[129]
Originally by: ry ry Edited by: ry ry on 15/06/2007 14:51:26
Originally by: Pan Crastus the extremely bad quality of written English in this forum (esp. by more active posters) causes a lot of harm.
i'd take a well considered point spelled rong over empty, but gramatically correct, words any day of the week.
then again, most of the posters on here shouldn't be allowed to form opinions in the first place, let alone share them with other people.
Thing is, most of the time people who don't have the time/care to check their posts for the more egregious transgressions committed against innocent words/phrases of the english language also don't have the time/care to consider their points very well...
Thank you SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in tur |

Haradgrim
Caldari The Wild Bunch
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Posted - 2007.06.15 16:51:00 -
[130]
to those who have a problem with 'toon:
"'toon" was a term coined by Warner Brothers as a euphamism for "cartoon character," it was usually used by said characters themsleves (since they were somehow aware of the fact that they were drawn). The best example of this is the movie; "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" in which 'toons are a race of sentient creatures (also see "Cool World").
Given the fact that a "cartoon" is a motion picture in which the majority of the content and characters are animated (there are a few instances that involve the use of live action images, although usually implemented through stop-motion animation). I would say that a video game (which is really just an interactive motion picture [literally pictures that are moving] that is animated in almost the exact same fashion as a cartoon [in that varying static images are shown in succession to create the illusion of motion]) is a cartoon of sorts and it would, as such, be completely legitamate to refer to said character's as "toons."
I personally don't refer to my character as a 'toon (I use the much more annoying "char") but I have a problem with the idea that there is something wrong or "un-intellectual" about the usage of "toon" in these circumstances. 
Other then that I agree with the OPs point.
Add To, Too, and Two to that list as well.
"Im going too Jita too get to BPOs, itll prolly cost two much but oh well, BPOs ftw guyz omgwtfpwnbbq!!!!!" 
That.which.does.not.bend.breaks |

Wyehr
Shadow Of The Light R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:29:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Montague Zooma
Originally by: Wyehr
Sorry. You can try to justify it all you want, but no one has ever since the dawn of time used the phrase "I could care less" in the way that you are suggesting.
(Look up hyperbole before you reply)
You're assuming that since you know of no one who uses "I could care less" correctly (and apparently can't imagine yourself being capable of doing so), then no one uses it correctly.
Look up "hasty generalization".
I'm not claiming every use of the phrase is proper, just pointing out that it's foolish to assume everyone who says it is misusing it.
I can see that you read the line that I bolded because you tried to throw it back at me, but you don't appear to have actually looked it up.
Be honest now, have you ever heard of anyone using that phrase in that way?
Two more terms for you to look up: eggcorn and folk etymology. And a wonderful website: Language Log
[ 2007.03.18 18:45:59 ] (notify) Typhoon belonging to Gandolf self-destructs. |

Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:46:00 -
[132]
Originally by: T'Laar Bok Wes don't need none of your fancy big city book lernin talk round ere.
lol
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Dave White
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:50:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Dave White on 15/06/2007 21:49:18
CORA. Killboard Personal Killboard |

Annika MonSulu
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Posted - 2007.06.15 22:21:00 -
[134]
All this and no one makes a comment about proper use of Semi-colons and commas? Priorities!
Toon is acceptable. Deal with it. You will have less stress in your life. |

Gee Lok
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Posted - 2007.06.15 23:06:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Woddawick Yah. I think I read somewhere that some of the differences in spelling are deliberate and date back to shortly after the War of Indepedance. The idea was to reinforce the sense of independance by being different.
There was an attempt at spelling reform in America around the turn of last century. It kinda didn't work, but there are a few words which are retain their reformed spellings. Off the top of my head, they are mostly words ending in our which end in or in American English (colour - color), in words where c makes an s sound the c is replaced with an s, (defence û defense), and in words ending in ised end in ized, (polarise û polarize).
Anyhoo, there are two types of grammar iirc: prescriptive grammar and descriptive grammar.
Prescriptive grammar is taught by English teachers etc and contains a number of arbitrary rules. Things like don't split infinitives, use whom not who in prepositional phrases etc, or use double negatives. Basically it is a whole lot of rules that people flaunt at will.
Descriptive grammar is the type that linguists study. It is about how people actually speak, or write. It turns out that 99% of people have excellent grammar from a descriptive point of view. Real grammar is a subconcious thing, so subconcious that people are completely unaware of it.
Deviations from Standard English are not a result of lack of intelligence etc, it is a result of communities innovating with the language in different environments so that it evolves. When people make prescriptive mistakes in English they tend to make the same mistakes every time, they are not making mistakes they are just using a slightly different set of grammatical rules.
Descriptive grammar is all about conveying an idea as effectively and efficiently as possible. The internet being a new communication medium requires a new style of English to maximize peoples efficiency.
The whole point that I have been trying to get to is that the point of language is to communicate to people. If they understand what you are saying then you have succeeded.
Having said that, my pet hate on the forums is people not leaving white space in their rants. A 1000 word rant with no paragraph spacing is so bloody difficult to read.
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tamlyn
e X i l e
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Posted - 2007.06.16 00:26:00 -
[136]
Edited by: tamlyn on 16/06/2007 00:27:03 Right.. to end the argument about "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" please see and read this link Diatribe Time. The term "I could care less" is an Americanism, it is not an English phrase, but an American English phrase.
So neither party here is incorrect, so quit stabbing each other over it.
Also the term "TOON". How can anyone see this as being a normal and useful word/describer for EVE? Its just a bit kid like in my eyes, but then that is my point of view.
Mind you, not everyone has had a decent level or even any form of level of education when it comes to the English language. While I was at school I received one hour in my 5 years at secondary school regarding nouns and pronouns. I came out of those 5 years a royal and total idiot when it came to the written English language. So even if it boils your blood to see people butchering the language, take a step back, take a breath and calmly say "pardon? do you mean 'you are? or your?'".
Also it would be worth remembering you cant change everyone.
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Hammer Judge
Gallente Southern Cross Incorporated Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.16 00:43:00 -
[137]
Three cheers for the OP, from another Brit. -
My newbie guide for experienced MMO gamers. |

Duck Andcover
Don't be Alarmed
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Posted - 2007.06.16 00:46:00 -
[138]
Originally by: defiler
Originally by: Alpha Agent
Originally by: Mrmuttley excessive ROLFCOPTOR!!!!!!!
Haha, how many ROFLCOPTORs is excessive?
Duh, 11 of course. 
Eleven. That's ridiculous. It's not even funny.
As for use of language, I personally tend to simply ignore the more unreadable posts. Hardly fair, but I'll be judge of what I subject my eyes to. It is, after all, my internet! 
Leet-speakers, drunk-typers and the intentionally 'careless' can write however they want, as long as they don't expect me to take them seriously. In an online community your eloquence is indeed your face, as someone pointed out.
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Gee Lok
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Posted - 2007.06.16 03:54:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Duck Andcover As for use of language, I personally tend to simply ignore the more unreadable posts. Hardly fair, but I'll be judge of what I subject my eyes to. It is, after all, my internet!
Leet-speakers, drunk-typers and the intentionally 'careless' can write however they want, as long as they don't expect me to take them seriously. In an online community your eloquence is indeed your face, as someone pointed out.
That is an interesting trend that has happened on the internet in the past couple of years. Five years ago a lot of people would not use capital leters or any punctuation. You just had to grin and bear it.
Now the standard of writing on the internet has really improved. Perhaps this is a result of better keyboard skills, perhaps people realise that they need to write properly to communicate their ideas more effectively. After all, punctuation, correct spelling and capitalisaton are important markers in a sentence that help the person reading it.
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Xtreem
Gallente Gallente Research Corporation
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Posted - 2007.06.18 09:35:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Trovax Edited by: Trovax on 15/06/2007 16:05:18 Edited by: Trovax on 15/06/2007 16:05:04
Originally by: Xtreem i would like to add to this excellent thread.
my spelling is very bad, my grammar is also very bad
i am English Born and bread
This is a game, making quick posts on a forum about a game is not going to rank highly on things to "get perfect" as i am dislexia and the above mentioned traits are heavily effected.
Just becuase i am bad at these things does not make me stupid or un-educated, i have a family, a daughter, a long term gf, a degree and hold a very well paid job and speak excellently.
please do not judge people on somthing as low as spelling. It just, well rude!
I do not believe this was a rant about dislexic people. In fact it dosent read like that at all. Its about lazyness me thinks.
perhaps not, however i get quite angry when i or others post and the reply "learn to spell" or the likes gets posted in responce by someone not agreeing with your view, just uncalled for IMO
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Gorefacer
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Posted - 2007.06.18 10:02:00 -
[141]
Tonight it took me repeating my order of a "Sirloin Cheeseburger with bacon" at Jack in the Box no less than 15 times before someone that could communicate in English took over.
Wait..... that's not what this is about is it?
As long as I'm here, don't hire people that can't communicate in English for a customer service position in an English speaking nation, no matter how low they are willing to be payed, it ****es me off, stick them on the damn fryer. Stupid managers should be shot, the job is NOT hard.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |

ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.18 10:58:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Gorefacer Tonight it took me repeating my order of a "Sirloin Cheeseburger with bacon" at Jack in the Box no less than 15 times before someone that could communicate in English took over.
Wait..... that's not what this is about is it?
As long as I'm here, don't hire people that can't communicate in English for a customer service position in an English speaking nation, no matter how low they are willing to be payed, it ****es me off, stick them on the damn fryer. Stupid managers should be shot, the job is NOT hard.
i don't even know what 'Jack In The Box' is, but i'm guessing it's some kind of marginally more upmarket McDonalds.
best thing to do would be to storm in later and shout "I'M GOING TO BLOG ABOUT THE SERVICE HERE, YOU CRETINS! I'LL DESTROY YOU WITH MY ANGRY INTERNET WORDS!" before ordering your sirloin burger (with bacon). You can flip a couple of napkins onto the floor to show them you mean business.
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Taikun Brunel
Gallente Evolved Gamer Zzz
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Posted - 2007.06.18 11:04:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Alpha Agent Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 18:34:59 As a dedicated EVE player and as an Englishman, I am truly disappointed by the level of sophistication *blah blah blah*
Just remember Alpha... those that do not speak with a sliver sppon in their mouths are probably quite capable of stabbing you with it instead.
Taikun
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Belial02
Amarr The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.06.18 12:25:00 -
[144]
Thats it, the next time I see someone write 'Turrents' or 'Hanger' I'll do all i can to get his personal address and kick him all the way back to school.
And after that i'll just devour his heart and innards.
Ooops, not my fault! Not my fault! ET taught me !! 
Originally by: Omeega diplomacy is f1, f2, f3, really...
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Jascal
RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.06.18 13:35:00 -
[145]
And some can't quite quit quietly.
The pile of vomit was once nausious, but now people say that they themselves are nausious looking at the vomit, when in actually they are nausiated. It was once bad grammar, but common usage has moved it into the acceptable consensus. Which is good.
A language must evolve or it will no longer be valid for proper communication, which is usually a two-way effort. The internet is the next major jump in language breadth, comparable to the invention of moving type and radio broadcast for social impact. Things are changing fast and what was is not necessarily what will be.
Lastly, some forget that there are both conversational communication, and more formal communication mixed in a forum like this. When you see the a post with the kind you are not interested in reading, don't read their post.
-Old and in the way . . Shine up the Mod's bullet before you let them carry it in their shirt pocket :) |

Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.18 14:30:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Alpha Agent Edited by: Alpha Agent on 14/06/2007 18:34:59 As a dedicated EVE player and as an Englishman, I am truly disappointed by the level of ~Alpha
Other highlights include the use of y where ie should be used ("my company's outpost" *sic*), to "borrow something to someone", the use of *sic* with verbal quotes and my personal favourite, improper use of i.e. and e.g. - remember kids: i.e. means id est ("that is"), NOT "for example".
However, having seen enough non-native speakers fsck this up not even on the interweb but in all kinds of documents, manuals, tech notes and even my own companies official press releases I have given up being a grammar **** - its a lost cause.
p.s. I'm not native English either. --
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.18 14:51:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 18/06/2007 14:51:58
Originally by: Gorefacer Tonight it took me repeating my order of a "Sirloin Cheeseburger with bacon" at Jack in the Box no less than 15 times before someone that could communicate in English took over.
Wait..... that's not what this is about is it?
As long as I'm here, don't hire people that can't communicate in English for a customer service position in an English speaking nation, no matter how low they are willing to be payed, it ****es me off, stick them on the damn fryer. Stupid managers should be shot, the job is NOT hard.
IMHO, every english spelling thread always end up with some attempt to ridicule non native english speakers (aka inmigrants). Maybe the job is not that hard but dealing with racism on a daily basis *is*.
If the problem is not talking english naturally, then start ranting about Steven Hawkings.
EDIT: and people from memphis too |

Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.18 14:54:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Aaron
thats all i can think of at the moment, why bother taking a few extra nanoseconds to type the words properly, im very lazy 
Because it makes the difference between others reading it, or others not reading it (or, if read, it might make the difference between reading it with the preconceived notion that the author is fourteen, or not). --
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.18 14:55:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger As long as I'm here, don't hire people that can't communicate in English for a customer service position in an English speaking nation, no matter how low they are willing to be payed, it ****es me off
Oh the irony  --
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.18 15:02:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn
Originally by: Shameless Avenger As long as I'm here, don't hire people that can't communicate in English for a customer service position in an English speaking nation, no matter how low they are willing to be payed, it ****es me off
Oh the irony 
That made my day... I'm a happy guy now. |

Wyehr
Shadow Of The Light R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.19 01:58:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Gee Lok Anyhoo, there are two types of grammar iirc: prescriptive grammar and descriptive grammar.
Prescriptive grammar is taught by English teachers etc and contains a number of arbitrary rules. Things like don't split infinitives, use whom not who in prepositional phrases etc, or use double negatives. Basically it is a whole lot of rules that people flaunt at will.
Descriptive grammar is the type that linguists study. It is about how people actually speak, or write. It turns out that 99% of people have excellent grammar from a descriptive point of view. Real grammar is a subconcious thing, so subconcious that people are completely unaware of it.
Deviations from Standard English are not a result of lack of intelligence etc, it is a result of communities innovating with the language in different environments so that it evolves. When people make prescriptive mistakes in English they tend to make the same mistakes every time, they are not making mistakes they are just using a slightly different set of grammatical rules.
Descriptive grammar is all about conveying an idea as effectively and efficiently as possible. The internet being a new communication medium requires a new style of English to maximize peoples efficiency.
The whole point that I have been trying to get to is that the point of language is to communicate to people. If they understand what you are saying then you have succeeded.
Having said that, my pet hate on the forums is people not leaving white space in their rants. A 1000 word rant with no paragraph spacing is so bloody difficult to read.
But, the wall of text that you hate so much is a result of communities innovating with the language in different environments so that it evolves. You could say that it is a new style of English to maximize peoples [sic] efficiency. The people who do it are not making mistakes they are just using a slightly different set of grammatical rules.
Prescriptivists can be downright silly, I know. I've seen examples from textbooks that admonish against some construction while using the same on the very same page or even in the same paragraph. I'll never tell anyone not to split an infinitive unless they are writing something for a teacher that hates it. And starting sentences with conjunctions is only wrong for non-linguistic reasons (teacher again, most likely).
But descriptivists on the other extreme are just as silly. Some will say that there are no errors in language, only disfluencies. A disfluency is when you say something that you personally consider to be wrong. While useful as a statistical tool if you are recording actual usage, people who go too far into that silliness don't exactly have useful advice for people who want to write clearly and be understood.
Which brings us to standard written English. No, this wasn't something your high school english teacher made up because he hates you, and no, no one actually talks like that. The point is to make written communication as clear as possible, which is really handy when you lack all of the nonverbal clues that you get when talking to someone in person.
So please, if your idea is important enough for you to write down and important enough for someone else to read, be considerate and make some effort. Look up words that you don't know. Keep a cheat sheet around for errors that you know you make (people have pointed them out already, I promise).
Consider this... every linguist that I know of writes proper standard English, even the ones that argue that there are no fixed rules in personal language. They may defend your right to sound like an uneducated hick with your head held high, but they sure as hell aren't going to let anyone think that they are one too.
[ 2007.03.18 18:45:59 ] (notify) Typhoon belonging to Gandolf self-destructs. |

Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.10 16:08:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Wyehr
Originally by: Montague Zooma
Originally by: Wyehr
Sorry. You can try to justify it all you want, but no one has ever since the dawn of time used the phrase "I could care less" in the way that you are suggesting.
(Look up hyperbole before you reply)
You're assuming that since you know of no one who uses "I could care less" correctly (and apparently can't imagine yourself being capable of doing so), then no one uses it correctly.
Look up "hasty generalization".
I'm not claiming every use of the phrase is proper, just pointing out that it's foolish to assume everyone who says it is misusing it.
I can see that you read the line that I bolded because you tried to throw it back at me, but you don't appear to have actually looked it up.
Be honest now, have you ever heard of anyone using that phrase in that way?
Two more terms for you to look up: eggcorn and folk etymology. And a wonderful website: Language Log
So it all boils down to personal experience, and your experience is the only one that counts?
I've used the phrase correctly in conversations. Point me to the rules of grammar which determine "I could care less" cannot be used in any situation, and I'll declare you the victor.
I will, however, readily admit that the majority of people who say "I could care less" are using it incorrectly. But that doesn't invalidate its usage in a proper context.
Hyperbole or not, your argument is based on a hasty generalization. Hyperbole merely adds emphasis; it's not a shield for a flawed argument.
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Calisto Cody
Minmatar The Black Swan Society
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Posted - 2007.07.10 16:34:00 -
[153]
my grammar and typing sucks, as long as people understand me that's what is important.
And, diversion from the norm is what causes corruption is words and terms that is the evolution of language, so i am doing my part.
Originally by: "Orestes Umnon" An easy way to spot when isk farmers are mad: they stop using broken english and just start spamming boxes at you, with random punctuation sprinked here and there
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Miss Anthropy
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.07.10 16:46:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Calisto Cody my grammar and typing sucks, as long as people understand me that's what is important.
And, diversion from the norm is what causes corruption is words and terms that is the evolution of language, so i am doing my part.
I'm afraid you failed. You lost me in the second paragraph.
OMG! Some orange text. It must be important.
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Kalahari Wayrest
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Posted - 2007.07.10 17:00:00 -
[155]
I disagree with a couple of the assumptions in your OP.
One is that spelling 'you're' as 'your' means the person doesn't understand basic grammar, presumably, given your pointers, that they don't understand that 'you're' means 'you' and 'are' put together. Maybe that's true in some cases, but I'd bet it's the vast minority. The fact is, that although having different meanings, those two words look very similar. As such, if you're writing something out fast or not concentrating, it is easy to make a mistake. This does not preclude any original knowlege in the first place - someone can know exactly what those words mean and the differences between them, but easily put in the one they had not intended.
Secondly, your assumption that spelling has anything to do with education. There's someone on my English degree who is dyslexic. She gets good grades. It doesn't effect her education, nor should it. Generally, I can't spell for toffee most of the time,and I have no excuse. But it doesn't effect my education either. Probably because they take the odd spelling mistake as what it is, a mistake which doesn't neccesarily mean a lack of knowlege.
Then you've lumped in things that aren't spelling errors at all...
It's perfectly valid to call a character a toon. I'm going to take a guess and assume that comes from other games where their avatars are more cartoony looking. If they've got used to it from that, then they won't change. It's quicker than writing character, and not much different to calling it an 'avvy' short for avatar. Or just simply 'my pic' when it comes to eve, as that's all we are anyway. You might not like it, but it hasn't got much to do with misusing the English language.
As for 'I could care less,' that's simply adaption of the original phrase. And those things happen and there's nothing you can do about it. (actually personally, I always thought there was a difference and the two weren't interchangeable that 'couldn't care less' meant you already care the abolsute minimum and there's no lower to go, and 'could care less' means there's still some caring left to go, but it's being used up rapidly - like as sort of a threat. I'm only just beginning to realise that isn't the case, but then I do have my own 'special' way of looking at things sometimes )
I'm going to shoot a personal snipe at you now, which is below the belt so feel free to shoot one back, I think if people mispelling or using certain words and phrases on an internet gaming forum upsets you than you're being more anal about it than is neccesary or healthy Though I doubt you're alone in it.
Finally, I've deliberately not ran these paragraphs through a spell checker. If you're going to believe that spelling mistakes automatically invalidate arguments, then that's your lookout, not mine. __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus |

Kalahari Wayrest
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Posted - 2007.07.10 17:03:00 -
[156]
Quote: Originally by: Calisto Codymy grammar and typing sucks, as long as people understand me that's what is important.
And, diversion from the norm is what causes corruption is words and terms that is the evolution of language, so i am doing my part.
I'm afraid you failed. You lost me in the second paragraph.
I understood what she meant  which is rare ¼.¼ __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus |

Tarquin Tarquinius
Gallente Escorts of Eve
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Posted - 2007.07.10 18:12:00 -
[157]
dis tread obvusly aint bout me cuz i talk reel gud
So long as the text doesn't have numbers in it, I usually don't gripe about grammar. If I make a mistake I typically point it out and correct it.
Most mistakes are just a result of people trying to type fast or, as is my case, keyboard buttons sticking.
----- 0.0 System Renaming? |
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