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Doppleganger
Minmatar
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:08:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Mogrin
Well then in that case we'll be seeing raiding corps forming and pirate corps camping them, sending the majority back to solo 4s in their mission battleships.
Well actually when lvl 4's 1st came out CCP said they never intended on them being solo-able missions either but so many ppl complained and whinned about it.... guess what happened.
So now you are asking for another lvl of missions to be dumbed down as well and moved to high sec space? (I say dumbed down cause by moving them to high sec you would need to remove the cap ship element)
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THEGREAT LOBO
Infestation.
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:10:00 -
[32]
hehe, Yep! come one come all 
Looking forward to seeing more targets in low sec
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Fayn Trak
Gallente
Myridian Trading Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:13:00 -
[33]
A hostile response but no declarations of war, times have indeed changed.
A herd of cattle
A flock of geese
A lot of isk
remember when sigs were text? |
Silence Duegood
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:29:00 -
[34]
I totally agree. This is preposterous! I also demand ridiculous wealth with no risk.
I also demand that I win the lottery. Today.
CCP, get on this please. ASAP.
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Mogrin
Caldari
Spartan Fleet Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:29:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Doppleganger
Originally by: Mogrin
Well then in that case we'll be seeing raiding corps forming and pirate corps camping them, sending the majority back to solo 4s in their mission battleships.
Well actually when lvl 4's 1st came out CCP said they never intended on them being solo-able missions either but so many ppl complained and whinned about it.... guess what happened.
So now you are asking for another lvl of missions to be dumbed down as well and moved to high sec space? (I say dumbed down cause by moving them to high sec you would need to remove the cap ship element)
You think that no capital ships will make them dumbed down? As someone else already mentioned, the only capital that will be worth a damn is carriers to tank, plus some dps ships. Taking it to highsec would mean a sub-capital would have to tank and repair.
Also when you guys are saying that lowsec just isn't dangerous, thats because most people mission in highsec. If the majority of mission runners migrate to level 5s in lowsec then don't be surprised when pvp fitted pirate corpse come to play with you.
I guess this thread is a whole lot of words saying something extremely simple, you don't pvp in mission setup ships, and CCP just refuses to comprehend this.
Until optimally fitting a mission runner is synonymous with a gank setup, who in their right mind would even attempt to pvp in a mission running setup?
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Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:32:00 -
[36]
Carebears that think they can make thier ravens able to face a mission made to chalange a dreadnaught tank make me laugh!
Since you are cerebear I know you never saw a Dread in combat but I would love to see you waste your preciosu CNR trying a Level 5 alone. Pirates will be your lowest concern if you want to try them solo in a Battleship!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Ragornok
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:42:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mogrin
Originally by: Doppleganger
Originally by: Mogrin
Well then in that case we'll be seeing raiding corps forming and pirate corps camping them, sending the majority back to solo 4s in their mission battleships.
Well actually when lvl 4's 1st came out CCP said they never intended on them being solo-able missions either but so many ppl complained and whinned about it.... guess what happened.
So now you are asking for another lvl of missions to be dumbed down as well and moved to high sec space? (I say dumbed down cause by moving them to high sec you would need to remove the cap ship element)
You think that no capital ships will make them dumbed down? As someone else already mentioned, the only capital that will be worth a damn is carriers to tank, plus some dps ships. Taking it to highsec would mean a sub-capital would have to tank and repair.
Also when you guys are saying that lowsec just isn't dangerous, thats because most people mission in highsec. If the majority of mission runners migrate to level 5s in lowsec then don't be surprised when pvp fitted pirate corpse come to play with you.
I guess this thread is a whole lot of words saying something extremely simple, you don't pvp in mission setup ships, and CCP just refuses to comprehend this.
Until optimally fitting a mission runner is synonymous with a gank setup, who in their right mind would even attempt to pvp in a mission running setup?
Soooo....
Other than wanting all the isk you can possibly accumulate, with no risk or even effort being put forth on your part, what is it that you really want here?
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Ragornok
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:46:00 -
[38]
Oh, and I hate to think about what this guy will post after he finds out that you don't get bounties. (Or, at least thats what was originally said in a dev blog a while back, I haven't been on the test server to verify).
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Nox Solaris
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:47:00 -
[39]
Lvl 5's are only for those who already hold large areas of lowsec, not for new groups hoping to move in. Corps/megalliances which already have massive capital ship fleets to throw at them.
CCP has tried over and over again with every major patch to make lowsec and 0.0 more attractive to 'new' corps/players, but it never works. They either support existing power structures in those areas, or cause almost everyone to run back to highsec because they simply can't survive the new megalliance's wallet combat... i.e. the biggest pocketbook always wins. Or they migrate in because the money balance gets skewed (lvl 4s with exodus release) toward empire away from 0.0)
Attempting to force players outward never works... unless it works backwards. CCP should just stop trying.
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Sikozu Prioris
W33D Corp.
O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:52:00 -
[40]
There is a much bigger problem then the camping of gates or stations in a lv5 agent system....
People scanning out the mission runners, coming into the mission and killing them.
I was running a lv4 in low-sec with about 6 ppl in local. After about 20mins a gang of four turned up (in the mission deadspace I was running), locked me and started shooting. Luckily I was about 80km from the warp in point so they ddnt scramble me and I ran.
With the difficulty ive seen on the test server for lv5's if a group can scan down this easy, ppl running the mission then they wont camp the station cos its easier to wait till they are in the mission being attacked by the rats and come in a pick them off.
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Angellyne
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ragornok
Soooo....
Other than wanting all the isk you can possibly accumulate, with no risk or even effort being put forth on your part, what is it that you really want here?
Well, for some reason you're assuming he wants no-risk effortless wealth, so I'm going to assume you're one of those no-risk low-sec ganktards who hunt PvE ships - and answer you:
What he wants is to make it a little more difficult for you guys to gank him, if & when he decides to try the new level 5 missions. More similarity between PvP and PvE setups, specifically.
People are making a good point about gangs, though. As a test, maybe try ganging up with friends - all in PvP setups, more or less - and see how you do with your level 4's. Granted you'll have to deal with the rats AND the ganktards in low-sec, but at least this'll give you some ideas.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:12:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Patch86 on 15/06/2007 21:13:19
Originally by: Angellyne
What he wants is to make it a little more difficult for you guys to gank him, if & when he decides to try the new level 5 missions. More similarity between PvP and PvE setups, specifically.
He is?! Thats funny, because when I read:
Originally by: Mogrin
So either put level 5s in highsec as well or just don't bother spending time on them.
I interpreted it as "put level 5s in highsec where theres no risk, or don't bother putting them in for any reason". Thank you for correcting me.
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Mogrin
Caldari
Spartan Fleet Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:14:00 -
[43]
You all seem to be getting caught up on the risk, lol.
Ok i'll play your better than thou game.
How much risk is there in scanning out mission runners and owning them in your pvp setup ship? NONE. Its safer than soloing level 4s in a raven, so shut the **** up about risk.
This thread is more about useless content, so spare me your bad boy attitudes.
And for that silly girl that say's i've never seen a dread, I saw about 150 of them fighting out in 9-9. If that doesn't count then nobodys seen a dread.
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Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:20:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mogrin
You all seem to be getting caught up on the risk, lol.
Ok i'll play your better than thou game.
How much risk is there in scanning out mission runners and owning them in your pvp setup ship? NONE. Its safer than soloing level 4s in a raven, so shut the **** up about risk.
This thread is more about useless content, so spare me your bad boy attitudes.
And for that silly girl that say's i've never seen a dread, I saw about 150 of them fighting out in 9-9. If that doesn't count then nobodys seen a dread.
Are you telling me that if I were to warp in to a dead space mission in a Megathron and shoot at a guy in a Raven, I have zero risk of getting destroyed by him (despite the fact I have one of my highslots filled by a probe launcher, while he'll have aall weapons and tanking modules, all be it specialised for the NPCs in the area), when compared with the perils of running lvl4 missions in high sec?
Seriously?
There is ZERO risk running missions in high sec. None. Zero. Zilch. Unless you pop out to make a cup of tea mid agro, you should NEVER need to get destroyed. Thats all very well and good, and if people want to play that way they should be perfectly allowed. but if CCP are putting in new high-reward content, you should be expected to experience a little risk at the same time. Thats just the way this game is.
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Silence Duegood
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:21:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Silence Duegood on 15/06/2007 21:21:37
Originally by: Mogrin
You all seem to be getting caught up on the risk, lol.
Ok i'll play your better than thou game.
How much risk is there in scanning out mission runners and owning them in your pvp setup ship? NONE. Its safer than soloing level 4s in a raven, so shut the **** up about risk.
This thread is more about useless content, so spare me your bad boy attitudes.
And for that silly girl that say's i've never seen a dread, I saw about 150 of them fighting out in 9-9. If that doesn't count then nobodys seen a dread.
Let's spell this out for you, as you seem to be unable to figure some of these more simple concepts out on your own.
Pirating has some risk involved. However, the point here is not risk for the pirates (as pirating doesn't make much money)... the point is risk for those raking in the incredible profit for those running level 5 missions.
Level 4s in high sec are so stupidly unbalanced on risk vs. reward that level 5s being in high sec would be utterly ridiculous.
Do you understand now? This isn't about pirate risk... it's about risk vs. profit.
Read it slowly again, lest you look even more foolish.
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Angellyne
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:25:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Patch86
Edited by: Patch86 on 15/06/2007 21:13:19
Originally by: Angellyne
What he wants is to make it a little more difficult for you guys to gank him, if & when he decides to try the new level 5 missions. More similarity between PvP and PvE setups, specifically.
He is?! Thats funny, because when I read:
Originally by: Mogrin
So either put level 5s in highsec as well or just don't bother spending time on them.
I interpreted it as "put level 5s in highsec where theres no risk, or don't bother putting them in for any reason". Thank you for correcting me.
It's not that funny, really. That sort of mistake is common when you only read one sentence. There was also some stuff about mission setups and PvP setups. More importantly, not one mention of "wanting no risk" other than from the anti-mission-runner / anti-reading-comprehension crowd.
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Elenath
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:28:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Elenath on 15/06/2007 21:27:31
Originally by: Angellyne
It's not that funny, really. That sort of mistake is common when you only read one sentence. There was also some stuff about mission setups and PvP setups. More importantly, not one mention of "wanting no risk" other than from the anti-mission-runner / anti-reading-comprehension crowd.
Read the OP again. I'll quote the important part for you -
Originally by: Mogrin
So either put level 5s in highsec as well or just don't bother spending time on them.
As I read it, that equates to no risk.
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Angellyne
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:32:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Elenath
Edited by: Elenath on 15/06/2007 21:27:31
Originally by: Angellyne
It's not that funny, really. That sort of mistake is common when you only read one sentence. There was also some stuff about mission setups and PvP setups. More importantly, not one mention of "wanting no risk" other than from the anti-mission-runner / anti-reading-comprehension crowd.
Read the OP again. I'll quote the important part for you -
Originally by: Mogrin
So either put level 5s in highsec as well or just don't bother spending time on them.
As I read it, that equates to no risk.
Yeah, like I said, reading one sentence. Your turn to go read the OP again, this time giving equal importance to each sentence.
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Mogrin
Caldari
Spartan Fleet Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:33:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Mogrin
You all seem to be getting caught up on the risk, lol.
Ok i'll play your better than thou game.
How much risk is there in scanning out mission runners and owning them in your pvp setup ship? NONE. Its safer than soloing level 4s in a raven, so shut the **** up about risk.
This thread is more about useless content, so spare me your bad boy attitudes.
And for that silly girl that say's i've never seen a dread, I saw about 150 of them fighting out in 9-9. If that doesn't count then nobodys seen a dread.
Are you telling me that if I were to warp in to a dead space mission in a Megathron and shoot at a guy in a Raven, I have zero risk of getting destroyed by him (despite the fact I have one of my highslots filled by a probe launcher, while he'll have aall weapons and tanking modules, all be it specialised for the NPCs in the area), when compared with the perils of running lvl4 missions in high sec?
Seriously?
There is ZERO risk running missions in high sec. None. Zero. Zilch. Unless you pop out to make a cup of tea mid agro, you should NEVER need to get destroyed. Thats all very well and good, and if people want to play that way they should be perfectly allowed. but if CCP are putting in new high-reward content, you should be expected to experience a little risk at the same time. Thats just the way this game is.
You solo gank in a megathron?
Please use standard gank setups please, not the worst gank ships that come to mind.
Curse + Nosdomi combo. SURPRISE YOU'RE ****ED!
And as a pirate YOU decide when and where and who you fight. Don't act like its so dangerous.
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Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Jor Renalt
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:33:00 -
[50]
The problem, it seems to me, is that low sec is apparantly more dangerous than 0.0. In 0.0 alliances can claim soveriegnty over systems and defend them or let corps rent them and defend them. Since low sec is technically still Empire no one can claim soveriegnty but at the same time it remains virtually undefended. Its not really 'low sec', more like 'no sec'.
Perhaps if the controlling powers had random military patrols/CONCORD run through low sec it would be more balanced. Say for .4 space CONCORD woud be present for 30 minutes out of every hour, for .3 20 minutes, .2 10 minutes, and .1 5 minutes. This would add some 'risk' to the player pirates/gankers hunting mission runners while not eliminating the risk to the mission runners.
Or perhaps its a ******** idea, who knows.
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Elenath
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:37:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Angellyne
Originally by: Elenath
Edited by: Elenath on 15/06/2007 21:27:31
Originally by: Angellyne
It's not that funny, really. That sort of mistake is common when you only read one sentence. There was also some stuff about mission setups and PvP setups. More importantly, not one mention of "wanting no risk" other than from the anti-mission-runner / anti-reading-comprehension crowd.
Read the OP again. I'll quote the important part for you -
Originally by: Mogrin
So either put level 5s in highsec as well or just don't bother spending time on them.
As I read it, that equates to no risk.
Yeah, like I said, reading one sentence. Your turn to go read the OP again, this time giving equal importance to each sentence.
I don't need to read it again. The closing sentence (and various other statements in the thread) make it very clear to me that this is a not-so-veiled attempt at asking for no risk level 5 missions.
Enlightening me - if the request was met that level 5s be moved to high sec would there be more risk than level 4s? No. Would level 5s be more profitable than level 4s? Yes.
Learn to read between the lines. It's called Logic.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:38:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Angellyne
It's not that funny, really. That sort of mistake is common when you only read one sentence. There was also some stuff about mission setups and PvP setups. More importantly, not one mention of "wanting no risk" other than from the anti-mission-runner / anti-reading-comprehension crowd.
Are you reading the same OP as me?! I'll dissect exactly what I'm reading, and you can tell me what I'm missing.
Originally by: Mogrin
So missions are about getting money.
Missions are about turning a profit.
Quote:
People mission run in their mission battleships.
There is a specific set up used for ships that run missions.
Quote:
Mission battleships are often Elite with tech 2 and officer fittings, meaning nobody in their right mind is going to take it to lowsec. (don't fly what you can't afford to lose amirite?)
These special set ups are usually very expensive, so no sane person is gogin to take them in to low sec (DFWYCAL, correct?)
Quote:
So out come level 5s which will only be in lowsec as some lame attempt by CCP to get people to pvp in their mission running ships.
Level 5s will only be in low sec. CCP have done this to make people PvP in said really expensive set ups. (Which is patently wrong, by the way- CCP have done it because they want you to visit low sec, not so you risk expensive things).
Quote:
Well CCP this shows that you're out of touch with your customer base and it simply won't work.
CCP's plan will fail.
Quote:
So either put level 5s in highsec as well or just don't bother spending time on them.
So put the level 5's in high sec, or don't put them in at all!
I don't see anything there about wanting to make mission running less of a disadvantage in PvP (which, incidentally, I'd be all for if you have any suggestions. I don't pirate, and I DO mission run, so that'd be genius). It's pretty clear what it does say-
1: CCP will put things in low sec.
2: It won't make me (and by extension everyone else) go there.
3: So put said things in high sec!
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Doppleganger
Minmatar
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:46:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mogrin
I guess this thread is a whole lot of words saying something extremely simple, you don't pvp in mission setup ships, and CCP just refuses to comprehend this.
Until optimally fitting a mission runner is synonymous with a gank setup, who in their right mind would even attempt to pvp in a mission running setup?
Not many will try to PvP in a mission running setup but then I have many times PvE in a PvP setup before. I like the idea the mission spots in low sec will give ppl something to fight over just like some complexs in 0.0 do. I mean after all what else is there to fight over in low sec? Not much that I can tell.
I have been on the test server but still havent tried the lvl 5 missions so I don't yet know how hard they are or how good the profit is although I suspect lvl 5s might not give enough rewards for the dangers involved 'yet'. They might release the missions pre-nerfed that way they can crank things up if needed then release something that makes insane rewards before its discovered.
It all depends on how they get the risk vs reward thing right. Lvl 4s right now unless they are in low sec are just a joke cause of not having the right balance. We dont need to make the same mistake with lvl 5s.
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Angellyne
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:46:00 -
[54]
I started editing & then got sidetracked - damn job!
This was what I added above:
Edit: Besides which, people like to say a level 4 mission in high-sec has "no risk" - but that'd be opinion. I've known people who lost ships to them. So next you conclude a level 5 mission in high-sec would also have no risk? That'd be assumption.
So ... honestly, you see the OP asking for no risk? Assumption based on opinion, turned into straw man argument.
All he's saying is that ganktards will make people put away their PvE ships or stay with lev 4's. Agree or disagree with that, but (as always) the vitriolic anti-mission guys are derailing this into a "you just want your ISK press" topic again.
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VIctoria Ballentyne
Minmatar
Pale Riders Incorporated
Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:49:00 -
[55]
Running missions in low sec is doable, been there done that, just a question of what system it is and how good your gang is if the mission breakers try to turn up.
But the necessity to have cap ships for some of them? Well I guess that's just a natural escalation since CCP's demographic alliance has more than a few cap ships.
Personally I wonder how long it will be until they start to bring a titan into the lvl 5's and DD everything.
"Forbid a man to think for himself or to act for himself and you may add the joy of piracy and the zest of smuggling to his life"
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Mogrin
Caldari
Spartan Fleet Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:52:00 -
[56]
Quote:
Level 5s will only be in low sec. CCP have done this to make people PvP in said really expensive set ups. (Which is patently wrong, by the way- CCP have done it because they want you to visit low sec, not so you risk expensive things).
And you would be patently WRONG.
How the hell can you believe that they want you to not risk expensive ships to gankers?
What the hell are you going to mission run in?
Tech 1 battleships?
Who the hell is going to come after you? Random wandering alliance wars?
No.
Its gonna be expensive mission setups vs people specifically setup to wtfgank your gang.
This is all assuming that anyone is tricked into thinking it will be more profitable. If based on law of averages of risk vs reward these level 5s turn out to be more profitable factoring in the fact that they will probably lose CAPITAL SHIPS to surprise butsekz ganks, then people will do them. And they would have to be ridiculously profitable in order for them income to average out.
Otherwise the people that level 5s were attempting to bait into lowsec simply won't do them.
Useless content, failed attempt at forcing pvp on those who make their isk in empire, etc etc.
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Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Mogrin
Caldari
Spartan Fleet Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:54:00 -
[57]
Originally by: VIctoria Ballentyne
Personally I wonder how long it will be until they start to bring a titan into the lvl 5's and DD everything.
You can't DDD in lowsec.
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Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Sgt Blade
Save Yourself Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:57:00 -
[58]
wow this is lame.....
if i was a mission ***** and had a CNR with t2/faction mods.... and some corp mates aswell who will help me do those lvl 5 missions then hell id risk it. it would be fun to attract pirates to you aswell as making isk with missions.
just because your not willing to risk your ass in low sec with all those ebil pirate types  then dont go and do lvl 5's, it's not like its goin to affect YOU personally in anyway or changes the way you mission lvl 4's in high sec.
actually for the matter of fact there is a lvl 4 q 20 agent in low sec for caldari of what i know so if people are willing to go do them , then im sure there are also people willing to go and the the lvl 5 ones.
stop complaining if your not man enough to go and do/use some of the features in the game... just because i cant fly a titan and DD everyone dosnt mean that ccp are out of touch with their customer base and wount work cause not enoughh people will get them 
now get back to your lvl 4 missions while the rest of us prepare to go do lvl 5's and kill pirates.... or just kill pirates.... and people doing lvl 5's
Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |
Mogrin
Caldari
Spartan Fleet Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.15 21:59:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Doppleganger
Not many will try to PvP in a mission running setup but then I have many times PvE in a PvP setup before. I like the idea the mission spots in low sec will give ppl something to fight over just like some complexs in 0.0 do. I mean after all what else is there to fight over in low sec? Not much that I can tell.
Complexes are static areas that people have to fight over. They're already there, for exactly that purpose.
Level 5 agents will spawn as many level 5 missions as necessary.
What is a more likely scenario is having a level 5 mission running corps ally and pay mercenaries to defend the system of known pirates. Might as well be 0.0 at that point.
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Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.15 22:01:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Patch86 on 15/06/2007 22:00:13
Originally by: Angellyne
I started editing & then got sidetracked - damn job!
This was what I added above:
Edit: Besides which, people like to say a level 4 mission in high-sec has "no risk" - but that'd be opinion. I've known people who lost ships to them. So next you conclude a level 5 mission in high-sec would also have no risk? That'd be assumption.
So ... honestly, you see the OP asking for no risk? Assumption based on opinion, turned into straw man argument.
All he's saying is that ganktards will make people put away their PvE ships or stay with lev 4's. Agree or disagree with that, but (as always) the vitriolic anti-mission guys are derailing this into a "you just want your ISK press" topic again.
I've been playing EVE since sometime late 2005, and started lvl4 missions the very moment I had my first BS. I believe I've lost 3 BS's to high sec missioning in this time- 2 because I got distracted by things in RL, and once because me and a corpy were grinding a high reward mission with a BS + logistics Brutix, and we had a bit of a***** up.
Honestly, thats not high risk. Its really not. And I PvE with a drone Domi- just about the riskiest mission ship there is (damn you ill behaved drones, grabbing all your gosh darned agro every time I turn my back). I'd be shocked if anyone in a Raven or similarly excellent PvE ship is losing ships much more frequently than that. The fact is, missions are predictable- unless you screw up the practised path, you just grind it out like you always do.
I'd be all for CCP writing even more Lvl 4 and below missions, to give high sec players more varied things to do. But giving them Lvl 5s, with no more inherent risk than a Lvl 4, is doing no more than pouring isk straight in to peoples wallets.
If your problem is, as you say, that running missions requires using extremely unbalanced set ups (from a PvP perspective) and being attacked mid-mission is a severe disadvantage for the defender, then I agree that these are issues that could do with being addressed.
The OP's solution (clear as day in his original post) is "put Lvl 5s in high sec instead", and I see this as a complete and utter non solution. This is all I am disagreeing with. I'm not disagreeing with anything else- just that. So don't flame me for "not reading the OP" when thats ALL I'm responding to!
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