Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.17 16:01:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Aramendel on 17/06/2007 16:20:17
Originally by: Edania never seen a T2 ship offer ever and i have a million LPs
I did. But they were no significant items, only inties and I think AFs, too. In the 10k LP area IIRC.
|
Lurtz
Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers
|
Posted - 2007.06.17 17:17:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Lurtz on 17/06/2007 17:16:32
Originally by: MotherMoon
did you ignore the thing about cap ships? lvl 5 missions were made to cap ships could run missions cap ship should not EVER be allowed in high sec
now please reply to this fact
I don't think anyone is ignoring the fact that cap ships can enter these missions.
ok I'll accept that level 5 missions allow cap ship, but I wouldn't define that as the purpose for their creation.
Opinion. I do not accept 'should not ever' but that is irrelevent. the fact remains that they are not at this time allowed in high sec.
These statements do nothing to argue that level 5 agents should not exist in high sec. Just as there is nothing to keep me and a group of friends from doing level 4s in a pack of tech 1 cruisers, there shoul be no reason a (LARGE) group of runners should not be able to put together a pack of battleshhips, command and logistics and run level 5. and what about when t2 BS come out? Anything that promotes larger group interaction is good.
Also, has it been said that all level 5 will be combat? No huge couriers that need a fleet of indys or a couple freighters?
It is great to force group action, not low sec.
|
Dread Operative
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.06.17 17:46:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Rafein who was expecting Hello Kitty Online.
|
Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2007.06.17 18:54:00 -
[154]
Risk/Reward
Level 5's should be in Lowsec/0.0 only.
In fact level 2's 3's and 4's should be in lowsec/0.0 only too.
|
Mogrin
Caldari Spartan Fleet Systems
|
Posted - 2007.06.17 18:57:00 -
[155]
Whoa this thread is still going? I totally lost interest already.
Be excellent to each other. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.06.18 11:21:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Onnawa
venting his spleen
We can base our opinon on what we meet:
- pirates camping and killing shuttle with BS; - prates camping with officer smartbomb to kill interceptors and still jumpcloaked ships; - pirate blobs of 15+ ships; - pirates asking 20 million isk ransoms for a ship worth 2 million; - pirates accepting ransom and then killing you; - theoretically non-pirate corps firing on frieldly corporations; - pirates losing and replacing 3 carriers in 1 week (Ginger Magician at least did that); - pirates refusing to even consider to grant safe passage for isk; - pirates granting save passage and then revoking it when you are in the area; - pirates in carries and dreadnaughts; - pirates rutinely firing t2 ammunitions.
Most of the above don't point to cash poor people struggling to survive, but instead to well to do people with enough isk to spend more in ammunitions getting a killmail of what they will recover from the wreckage.
There is no dubt that there are players willing to keep their word and allow moon mining end even protect your POS for a fee, but those that after gettin your isk will come and destroy the POS are a majority.
The same for people granting safe passage. As they have no real cosequences it they break what pact was made, most people will not respect it.
Others simply think that mission runners are made of gold and get hundred of millions from every mission, so asking some absurd sum is only a tiny fraction of what they get. Well, even mission runners can be poor, have only 1 good ship for missions, and save months to get the 1 faction items they feel is indispensable.
|
Nesa
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.18 17:22:00 -
[157]
Alternatively they could make missions that are impossible to complete without using capital ships, available in high sec where you can't take a capital ship.... That would make much more sense.
|
Nesa
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.18 17:25:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 17/06/2007 16:20:17
Originally by: Edania never seen a T2 ship offer ever and i have a million LPs
I did. But they were no significant items, only inties and I think AFs, too. In the 10k LP area IIRC.
I saw lots of them, but they were things like, bring me a Raptor and I'll give you a Crow... this may have been a loooong time ago though.
|
Lagar
Caldari Core Domination
|
Posted - 2007.06.18 18:45:00 -
[159]
ok time for my personal opinion. lvl 4 agent missions can be difficult once starting them but eventualy they will degenerate to the omnipotent mission running ships that makes lvl 4 missions so low risk/ high reward. I'd personaly not be overly suprised that something like this could happen to level 5 missions especialy if they where used in empire space but here i can se a realy big problem with that. since the dreadnought/carriers are already exessivly powerfull it would mean that eventualy a group of empire agent runners could tip the balance (ofcorse given that they'd have quantity to rival some of the more experienced players) most importantly this was achived with little to none of the risk that those in 0.0 space have to experience almost on a daily basis thus making eve relativly a farmers villa. so the concept of having level 5 agent missions in low sec is actualy a MUST.
|
Chelone
|
Posted - 2007.06.18 23:39:00 -
[160]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 I'm just afraid L5's will become the domain of bigger corps (or even alliances) who have the means to shut off an entire system so pirates won't have a chance so they can send in their missionrunning workparties to make even more isk.
Well now THERE'S a depressing outlook. The only way L5 can be a "fair" asset to the general playerbase would be to make enough L5 agents, distributed throughout enough space, that smaller corps or groups can benefit without being excessively pirated, or locked out by huge corps. Given the history of Eve, though, I don't have much faith that that will be the outcome. We have thousands of people just itching to exploit or kill anyone new...
|
|
Clarissa Devole
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 01:50:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Mogrin You all seem to be getting caught up on the risk, lol.
Ok i'll play your better than thou game.
How much risk is there in scanning out mission runners and owning them in your pvp setup ship? NONE. Its safer than soloing level 4s in a raven, so shut the **** up about risk. This thread is more about useless content, so spare me your bad boy attitudes.
And for that silly girl that say's i've never seen a dread, I saw about 150 of them fighting out in 9-9. If that doesn't count then nobodys seen a dread.
Are you telling me that if I were to warp in to a dead space mission in a Megathron and shoot at a guy in a Raven, I have zero risk of getting destroyed by him (despite the fact I have one of my highslots filled by a probe launcher, while he'll have aall weapons and tanking modules, all be it specialised for the NPCs in the area), when compared with the perils of running lvl4 missions in high sec?
Seriously?
There is ZERO risk running missions in high sec. None. Zero. Zilch. Unless you pop out to make a cup of tea mid agro, you should NEVER need to get destroyed. Thats all very well and good, and if people want to play that way they should be perfectly allowed. but if CCP are putting in new high-reward content, you should be expected to experience a little risk at the same time. Thats just the way this game is.
Yes, I think he is telling you that if you were to warp into a mission in a GvP-fitted Megathron, along with a half dozen friends similarly equipped (as is more likely to occur, as the covert ops that probed the location in the first place will no doubt have scouted out the opposition) and shot at a guy in an Angel-equipped Raven with little or no thermal resist, that you have zero risk of getting destroyed by him (whether or not you have one of your highslots filled by a probe launcher, while he'll have all weapons and tanking modules specialised for the NPCs in the area), when compared with the perils of running lvl4 missions in high sec.
Seriously.
Especially given that the dps of the NPCs more than makes up for the one potential weapon you gave up for the probe launcher. Heck, you needn't even mount tackle equipment, as the NPCs will tackle for you, while completely ignoring your gang as it rips the Raven to shreds.
There is ZERO risk in mission ganking. None. Zero. Zilch. Unless you completely forget about watching local for possible friends of the mission runner arriving.
Risk vs. Reward, eh? Where's the risk for the ganker, or do you consider that dreaded aggro-transfer after your target is destroyed to be 'risk'?
|
Clarissa Devole
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 01:56:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Chelone
Originally by: 000Hunter000 I'm just afraid L5's will become the domain of bigger corps (or even alliances) who have the means to shut off an entire system so pirates won't have a chance so they can send in their missionrunning workparties to make even more isk.
Well now THERE'S a depressing outlook. The only way L5 can be a "fair" asset to the general playerbase would be to make enough L5 agents, distributed throughout enough space, that smaller corps or groups can benefit without being excessively pirated, or locked out by huge corps. Given the history of Eve, though, I don't have much faith that that will be the outcome. We have thousands of people just itching to exploit or kill anyone new...
There has been a camp of the Atlar system for days now, with thirty or more ships (I've seen screenshots) at the gate into high sec, more at the other gates, and including capital and mothership support. Given that there are simple paths around Atlar to get to the 0.0 chokepoint, I can't help but wonder if this is in preparation for level 5 missions being added to the system. Is this the expected level of risk I am expected to face for 1/3 of my level 4 missions, let alone level 5 missions?
|
Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 01:59:00 -
[163]
obviously that camp in altar is making enough ISK
|
Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 02:04:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Clarissa Devole
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Mogrin You all seem to be getting caught up on the risk, lol.
Ok i'll play your better than thou game.
How much risk is there in scanning out mission runners and owning them in your pvp setup ship? NONE. Its safer than soloing level 4s in a raven, so shut the **** up about risk. This thread is more about useless content, so spare me your bad boy attitudes.
And for that silly girl that say's i've never seen a dread, I saw about 150 of them fighting out in 9-9. If that doesn't count then nobodys seen a dread.
Are you telling me that if I were to warp in to a dead space mission in a Megathron and shoot at a guy in a Raven, I have zero risk of getting destroyed by him (despite the fact I have one of my highslots filled by a probe launcher, while he'll have aall weapons and tanking modules, all be it specialised for the NPCs in the area), when compared with the perils of running lvl4 missions in high sec?
Seriously?
There is ZERO risk running missions in high sec. None. Zero. Zilch. Unless you pop out to make a cup of tea mid agro, you should NEVER need to get destroyed. Thats all very well and good, and if people want to play that way they should be perfectly allowed. but if CCP are putting in new high-reward content, you should be expected to experience a little risk at the same time. Thats just the way this game is.
Yes, I think he is telling you that if you were to warp into a mission in a GvP-fitted Megathron, along with a half dozen friends similarly equipped (as is more likely to occur, as the covert ops that probed the location in the first place will no doubt have scouted out the opposition) and shot at a guy in an Angel-equipped Raven with little or no thermal resist, that you have zero risk of getting destroyed by him (whether or not you have one of your highslots filled by a probe launcher, while he'll have all weapons and tanking modules specialised for the NPCs in the area), when compared with the perils of running lvl4 missions in high sec.
Seriously.
Especially given that the dps of the NPCs more than makes up for the one potential weapon you gave up for the probe launcher. Heck, you needn't even mount tackle equipment, as the NPCs will tackle for you, while completely ignoring your gang as it rips the Raven to shreds.
There is ZERO risk in mission ganking. None. Zero. Zilch. Unless you completely forget about watching local for possible friends of the mission runner arriving.
Risk vs. Reward, eh? Where's the risk for the ganker, or do you consider that dreaded aggro-transfer after your target is destroyed to be 'risk'?
Except, in these level 5's, it's going to be probably 2-3 Ravens, maybe 2 Domi's and a possible logistics ship running the mission. Aggro will be swapping around, meaning the gankers will also be getting some aggro as well. Not so easy of a gank at all. Give it a couple months, and the mission running crew will be a dread or two, and a few carriers. Then the gankers are going to really be up ****'s creek without a paddle.
|
The RepoMan
Caldari Red Horizon Inc Red Horizon
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 02:21:00 -
[165]
Try running some l5s on the test server, you'll see that they arent that tough with a few people, and probably damn easy with logistics support. The aggro is based completely on who does the most damage it seems, so only one person actually has to be missions fit, and so long as your teammates arent idiots it should be very fair risk vs reward. Also most of them span large areas of deadspace with multiple gates, you can very easily have some heavy pvp support at the dropoff.
|
FarScape III
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 02:27:00 -
[166]
This is an MMORPG and I'm lovin the idea of the Level 5's Low sec always had the most interesting people and it is worth the risk.
What is the point of playing if you never loose a ships?
A Minmater City... Cool! My Skills |
Rudy Metallo
Crimson Squall Molotov Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 02:30:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Rudy Metallo on 19/06/2007 02:29:12 In response to the OP
Nope, cause most of Eve PvPs in one form or another. So I think they're appealing to the player base quite well Say what? |
Dark Motoko
Caldari Stormlord Battleforce Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 02:34:00 -
[168]
Alright, I'm going to add my 0.02 Isk to this, and forgive me if I do drive over points made previously, because I became so tired of the e-peen waving in the first couple pages of this thread that I despaired of reading the rest. Now then.
Those content to work in empire outside of the battles between alliances and political power blocks already have what they need, and their desire for L5s to be placed in high sec, so that they simply have another, I'm sorry but this is well phrased, 'isk press' is unreasonable to the extreme. It beckons of a nature that isn't taking advantage of the full point of what Eve truly is about.
I will say that going from solo run L4s with no risk in empire, to L5s requiring teams of ships WITH capitals was a little extreme a jump, and skews somewhat the player base who are going to be physically able to utilise them.
Take into consideration a corp with a couple capitals, and a fairly average player base of 40-50. Now whereas they CAN try running these things (Don't flame me, I'm not arguing that they cant try doing it, read on), the likelyhood that one of the nearer 0.0 alliances might simply scan out their dreadnought in seconds and blow it to kingdom come is probably going to be easily high enough to put 90% of those in such situations off even trying.
I'm hinting at respective loss for different people. Losing a capital representing a lot of work to that corporation which might mean nothing to the larger alliances.
So, those who WILL feel safe enough to try running these agents will be those who have access to such expansive capital fleets that they can afford to run them with a couple aswell as having a team of capitals and support on standby.
It seems to me almost as if CCP wanted to draw the capital conflicts of the major alliances to some kinds of crux points around empire, because christ only knows that this is going to happen in a big way.
To conclude, these agents are useless to any and all but alliances with the largest and most powerful capital navies. Well done CCP for finding another way of stretching the balance of power between the old and new player factions even more so. You might just as well repeat T20 as far as I'm concerned.
|
Gray Carmicheal
Valiant Logistics Inc. Vigilance Infinitas
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 02:55:00 -
[169]
Never had an issue running missions in PVP setups, it's just a little slower
So that's the biggest, lamest excuse ever created in EVE. This Sig is Within Rules. :P
|
Futureface01
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 02:55:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Vitrael Edited by: Vitrael on 15/06/2007 19:45:55 OP wants more money at no personal risk. End of thread.
People in opposition to the OP want more mission running easy targets for their pvp gank squads so they can make lots more money at very low personal risk. End of thread.
|
|
Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 03:20:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Futureface01
Originally by: Vitrael Edited by: Vitrael on 15/06/2007 19:45:55 OP wants more money at no personal risk. End of thread.
People in opposition to the OP want more mission running easy targets for their pvp gank squads so they can make lots more money at very low personal risk. End of thread.
No, we just want people to stop complaining about everything that's put into this game. I'm not going to run lvl5's at all, I have no need to. You don't see me begging for something else that helps me and only me. Nobody is forcing anybody to run lvl5's. Nobody is taking anything away from you. What drives me nuts is that this is EXACTLY what many mission runners have wanted for a long time.
I'm actually happy for you guys, now that you have your capital/gang missions. That and the further revamped exploration system. I really do hope you enjoy the living snot out of them, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything. But it simply can not be done in empire space, you're not going to see capitals allowed back into high-sec. Not unless you want to see smartbombing dreads sitting on the gate to Jita all day long.
At some point, no matter how much you want otherwise, a line will be drawn where you will simply have to go into lower security space for some things. Be it high-level complexes and exploration sites, Ice mining, better ore, cloud harvesting or a bunch of other things... at some point you just have to deal with things not being guaranteed safe for you.
|
Royaldo
Gallente KVA Noble Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 03:42:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Gray Carmicheal Never had an issue running missions in PVP setups, it's just a little slower
So that's the biggest, lamest excuse ever created in EVE.
LMAO BULL****
id like to see you do worlds collide(sansha vs angel) or enemis abound(gallente/minnie)
|
Ahz
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 05:02:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Ahz on 19/06/2007 05:02:34
Originally by: Mogrin Lvl 5 should be in high sec (or some such)
Level 5 should be in 0.0.
CCP should create a handfull of NPC stations (one or two dozen) at random points in 0.0. Maybe along the major highways 3 or three jumps out of low sec. And put all of the level 5 agents there.
|
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 20:38:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Ahz Edited by: Ahz on 19/06/2007 05:02:34
Originally by: Mogrin Lvl 5 should be in high sec (or some such)
Level 5 should be in 0.0.
CCP should create a handfull of NPC stations (one or two dozen) at random points in 0.0. Maybe along the major highways 3 or three jumps out of low sec. And put all of the level 5 agents there.
Level 5 agents (and missions) should be distributed throughout high/low sec, with high-sec offering somewhat lower quality (and therefore rewards) than low-sec, and with high-sec missions effectively requiring larger teams of non-capital ships due to the restrictions on capitals.
I'm not convinced that these missions should be put in 0.0 for two reasons: 1) From a flavor-text standpoint, why would the factions focus their large-fleet activity in regions which they don't even try to claim control over? 0.0 is 0.0 because there is no factional control over these territories (unless you count the pirate 'factions'). 2) From a game play standpoint, putting these agents in 0.0 would just put a new farmable resource in the hands of the few alliances lucky enough to be gifted them in their territory. Given that CCP has just removed most fixed complexes, this seems counterproductive.
On the other hand, if 0.0 agents drifted by means of exploration system, this might work... -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services
At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today! |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 21:14:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Siege
Originally by: Futureface01
Originally by: Vitrael Edited by: Vitrael on 15/06/2007 19:45:55 OP wants more money at no personal risk. End of thread.
People in opposition to the OP want more mission running easy targets for their pvp gank squads so they can make lots more money at very low personal risk. End of thread.
No, we just want people to stop complaining about everything that's put into this game. I'm not going to run lvl5's at all, I have no need to. You don't see me begging for something else that helps me and only me. Nobody is forcing anybody to run lvl5's. Nobody is taking anything away from you. What drives me nuts is that this is EXACTLY what many mission runners have wanted for a long time.
I'm actually happy for you guys, now that you have your capital/gang missions. That and the further revamped exploration system. I really do hope you enjoy the living snot out of them, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything. But it simply can not be done in empire space, you're not going to see capitals allowed back into high-sec. Not unless you want to see smartbombing dreads sitting on the gate to Jita all day long.
At some point, no matter how much you want otherwise, a line will be drawn where you will simply have to go into lower security space for some things. Be it high-level complexes and exploration sites, Ice mining, better ore, cloud harvesting or a bunch of other things... at some point you just have to deal with things not being guaranteed safe for you.
Seem there is a basic misconcept there: no one (at least from the post I have read here and in other threads) asked for the possibility to use capital ships in high security.
The idea from people wanting some L5 agent in high security is to run the missions with a bigger gang of players, instead of doing them solo or with the help of a logistic alt in low sec while piloting a capital.
The "fun" part is that most of the level 5 missions currently in Sisi will not allow capital ships.
Ather reading most of the point pro or against I am for level 5 missions in low sec, but closely monitored by CCP to tweak them where needed.
Here there are a lot of possible problems that will require human intervention, like:
Rewards vs Risk - on Sisi the rewards are extemly low. In Tranquility they should auto adjust after the mission has ben run several hubdreds of times. The key point is that "several hundred", as level 5 require 8.60 standing with the appropriate corporation and a solid mission running group. But this kind of set up will not be common, if normally a new level 4 require about 1 week to adjust, a level 5 probably will require several months, and the same people running it for low rewards multiple times. I don't know how much people will have the required endurance and resources to replace the losses from the mission and the pirates wile getting some crap reward.
Again the reward: faction modules, with the advent of the LP store will decrease shuiftly in value, so even that kind of reward will lose most of his appeal. The only worthwile reward will be the tags to trade for faction items in the store.
Risk: alliances locking the systems when the missions start giving serious rewards. While I think that an alliance with the possibility to do that has all the reasons to do it (a good extra cash revenue), it will be a hard blow for all the other people wanting to run missions for level 5 agents.
All those problems can be resolved, but CCP should monitor the general situation so it will not devolve in farming the agents by some limited group or the agents staying unused as they are to hard to reach.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |