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Ares Strangelove Perkone	Posted - 2007.06.19 01:58:00 - [31] I like how some people ignored the whole mission running thing. Screw this. Forums suck, back to eve.. oh wait...
Quincy TawHarr Minmatar Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2007.06.19 02:09:00 - [32] Originally by: Iyanah Originally by: Qaed Sounds like your problem isn't noob corps then, but high-sec and the lack of salvage aggro. that does sounds like his problem, however, i agree that all NPC corps should be at a disadvantage. there should be a large tax on them, thus encouraging people to branch out, make friends and join a real corp. there should be real incentive to participate in the massively mulriplayer part fo the game, rather than just the online part. Of course, because there are actually zero people in npc corps... While my current corp is a tight knit bunch; I do miss the 300-400 people environment of the RMS. Leave well enough alone, NPC corp players have plenty of disadvantages. Fate, Chance and Destiny; they're all just ways of claiming your successes and dismissing your failures.
Qaed	Posted - 2007.06.19 02:15:00 - [33] Just go back to low-sec. All the things you are complaining you can't do in hi-sec, you can do in low-sec, risk free. Of course, low-sec is a suck-fest that no one goes to, but I doubt you guys will bother putting 2 and 2 together.
cal nereus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.06.19 02:16:00 - [34] Hmm, interesting option: make it possible for a player corp to wardec an entire faction (ie: go to war with the Caldari State), and thus have the ability to go to war with their noob corps. Of course, you'd need to avoid their caldari space since caldari navy would kick yer ass, but that aside... Actually, thinking it over. I don't like the idea. D=
Anehra X-Fire	Posted - 2007.06.19 02:19:00 - [35] It's just ore thieving, but better. Yes it's stupid. It's also stupid how old characters can sit and flood the newb corp chat as they're basicly (at least the case in SWA, couldn't stand it) flooding the channel and mocking new players that ask questions. Basicly the noob corps is now the home of 1) isk sellers 2) *****s that hasn't got the balls to pirate but rather grief 3) noobs - which is the minority. Am suggesting people that stays in the noob corp for more than 1 month get moved out into their own RandomCorp3985, which makes it fully viable to war dec them - as well as you get rid of the griefers that kill their own corpmates without any risks involved. About your salvage part tho.. it should be possible to steal it, just as you can steal ore. It's a part of thieving, which is part of this game. However, being safe from war dec is just ridicilous.
Bryg Philomena Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.06.19 02:36:00 - [36] Originally by: Anehra About your salvage part tho.. it should be possible to steal it, just as you can steal ore. It's a part of thieving, which is part of this game. However, being safe from war dec is just ridicilous. I think some people misunderstood me. Yes, it is fine to steal. I wasnt saying no one should be able to steal. I am saying no one should be 100% safe. So QFT. I also gave ideas to limit people in noob corps. So that any entity, be it an individual or a group of player such as an isk farming company, that want to make large sums of isk in empire, are limited. But not to such an extent that actual new players aren't nerfed. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
Ilsa Klein	Posted - 2007.06.19 02:42:00 - [37] Right, that's it. I am so sick of this "Risk vs Reward" line as a justification for why a certain aspect of the game should be changed. Risk vs Reward is a decision-making process, not a fundamental aspect of game design. It means that for any particular endeavour, you assess the risk involved and the potential reward, and decide whether it is a favourable course of action. It does not mean that every activity in the game should have exactly the same ratio of risk and reward, and I really wish people would stop using it that way. Whew. As to the OP, I don't think that forcing people out of noob corps is an ideal solution, since people should feel free to explore the game at their own pace. I can't think of a good solution, and clearly the devs can't either. I think the best idea would be to move the good-quality level 3 and all level 4 agents into low-sec, because that would shake up the game a lot, but I doubt the devs are prepared to make such a sweeping change.
Qaed	Posted - 2007.06.19 02:54:00 - [38] Edited by: Qaed on 19/06/2007 02:53:27 Quote: I think some people misunderstood me. Yes, it is fine to steal. I wasnt saying no one should be able to steal. I am saying no one should be 100% safe. So QFT. They aren't 100% safe. You could have killed him, but you decided it wasn't worth it. You, however, want to be able to war-dec anyone who upsets you so that your risk is reduced. Have you explored what it means to want to war-dec noobs while justifying it with a "risk vs. reward" argument? Quote: I also gave ideas to limit people in noob corps. So that any entity, be it an individual or a group of player such as an isk farming company, that want to make large sums of isk in empire, are limited. But not to such an extent that actual new players aren't nerfed. I'm not defending ISK farmers, but people in noob corps are limited to high-sec space. And it's hard to make large sums of ISK in empire, unless you're a trader. So there's lower rewards than 0.0/low-sec.
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.19 03:24:00 - [39] Quote: They aren't 100% safe. You could have killed him Not in Concord controlled space he couldn't have - it takes multuiple ships to kill even a hauler in empire, and even then each and every one of the attackers will die seconds after firing their first volley. So yes, NPC corps in empire = Hello Kitty Online in Eve -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs
Tenebrion Darkness	Posted - 2007.06.19 03:38:00 - [40] While being able to dec npc corps and thus their faction would work. An idea posted in previous threads is the idea of an errant player. At a certain age you're kicked from the npc corp (would suggest 3 or 6 mnths) and fly for no one. Any person droping from a player corp would no longer join an npc one, but become errant. Than coupled with the personal dec, kinda like a vendetta, you get your ability for revenge. Would either be a skill (higher the lvl gives more decs or are cheaper to maintain) or a set ammount of decs you can have running.
cal nereus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.06.19 03:57:00 - [41] Edited by: cal nereus on 19/06/2007 03:58:27 Edited by: cal nereus on 19/06/2007 03:57:24 Edited by: cal nereus on 19/06/2007 03:56:25 I ask only three things of the corp I work for (for now at least): no wardecs, no taxes, and a huge chat room (afterall, what is EVE but a chat program with a pretty background?)... and as it so happens, the noob corp provides all three. =D Edit: I like the errant idea, as long as I still have the noob corp chat room to talk in. =P I want to answer SAK questions about Villard Wheels! In the case of my noob corp, our corp chat is more helpful than the Rookie Help or Help chatrooms.
Qaed	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:00:00 - [42] Quote: Not in Concord controlled space he couldn't have - it takes multuiple ships to kill even a hauler in empire, and even then each and every one of the attackers will die seconds after firing their first volley. So yes, NPC corps in empire = Hello Kitty Online in Eve And if the thief had tried to shoot him first, the thief would have been killed by Concord. The same rules apply to all. And what's with the Hello Kitty Online reference? The dude wants to kill noobs, with no consequences. He already admitted he could kill the guy, it just would have cost more than he was willing to pay. He'd prefer not to have any consequences for killing some guy, in high-sec, for salvaging.
Candyman Dyer	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:01:00 - [43] The greater the difference in SP, the more it costs to war dec a person. That way it would be massively expensive for vets to kill noobs.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Bryg Philomena Originally by: Tortun Nahme the risk of you not having a salvager on your ship is someone else getting the salvage, since it is SALVAGE and therefore belongs to the first person to SALVAGE it, it is not an agressible offense, the risk they take is the same risk any miner takes Every word I read, that you type, makes me feel like my IQ is dropping 1 point. Their risk? What is it? They dont get salvage? That they DIDNT WORK FOR? While I, who actually to the time and effort to kill said ships, gets screwed over? It is nothing like miners, who actually took time to work for their ore. Bryg, I hate to be the one to pop your bubble...but there is much you don't know about Eve Online. For example, there are four factions within Eve. Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar, and ....those other weird guys. Players may elect to work for the faction that they created a character for; thus NPC corps are born. Here's a great analogy for you: I'm an American. I'm not charged a tax to be an American (or factional race in game). If I were to create a business venture, it would be subject to tax by local, state, and federal governemnt. Tax in game is solely represented by corp tax; IMHO, corps should have to pay factions to operate in their space; with the only exception being the drone regions, which no faction controlls. If I take a federal or military job, I get some benefits - for example, I needn't pay federal income tax. In game, by electing to serve DCMI, IE the Caldari State, I'm electing to serve my faction, and I do so with distinction. You, my friend - are a simple player. Your have a player corporation, and have not the ability to negotiate or declare war on the greater factions in Eve, nor their workers. In the same real life scenario, Wal-mart does not declare war on the United States because an American stole something from a Walmart. Walmart would contact the government (local police in this instance) the same way that you do so in game - with the exception that such arbitration has already been executed through the use of flagging and timers. In short, there's more to Eve that you pew-pewing and looking for targets; there is a vast and rich background that you should explore, and perhaps learn where each of us belong in it. And if you're looking to pew-pew with someone in an NPC corp, look me up. I'll leave half my slots empty and fight blindfolded, just to make it fair.
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:26:00 - [45] ^Well, walmart could theoreticaly declare war on the USA, they wouldn't last long though. Anwyays, back to where I was, specificaly on the topic of cal nereus's post, i have somwhat split thaughts. One thaught is that yes, you should only benefit from enhanced protection within your faction boundaries, thus making it an "extra-hi-sec" for you. The other is that you should be able to join NPC corps of other factions. Keeping in mind, i'd like this to be balanced so that hisec is still preety safe for the majority of players, but the AFK freighters now shave to take some precaution, or alternatively shut down their buisness while wardec is in effect (they do have 24hr warning)
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:30:00 - [46] I just knew it wouldn't be hard to hoist Bryg on his own petard on this issue. See this thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=537732&page=1#16 So, no problem in telling other people to stop whining about aspects of gameplay that they don't like, but when when the shoe is on the other foot, you begin bawling like an infant over how unfair it is. Hypocrite. Pathetic.
sleepyhead87	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:47:00 - [47] I've read basicaly 3/4 of this thread and think that most of you here are smacktards. What he is saying is that it's basically unfair that they can jack his salvage without being flagged. It's like jacking from someone's can without any punishment. It IS technically trash, but it doesn't belong to everyone because if it did, it'd be white (as if you owned it) and not yellow to other people. Basically, make jacking salvage like jacking from cans, you get flagged, and the owner can shoot at the guy if he takes the risk in jacking. I'm sure all Bryg wants is to have a chance to kill the guy, not sit there idly watching the theft in possible unable to do jack s*t. P.S. Bryg, I swear I was clicking random shot.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:48:00 - [48] Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 19/06/2007 04:50:49 Originally by: Candyman Dyer The greater the difference in SP, the more it costs to war dec a person. That way it would be massively expensive for vets to kill noobs. right so you make a "noob agressor" alt sorry still f- edit: and sleepyhead: CCP already said salvage was not going to be a flagged action, it belongs to who salvages it first, anyone who doesn't like it is welcome to send me their stuff Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon!
Aleric Vikyz Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:03:00 - [49] Grow some balls and come live out in 0.0 with the big boys, we're always eager for a fight. Problem solved.
Kruel Save our Souls	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:03:00 - [50] Kinda sucks that the only way to get revenge on a wreck-theif in a noobcorp who never leaves hi-sec, is by suicide ganking the guy. I wonder how many billions of loot were stolen RISK FREE from the Privateers. Theiving from wrecks should cause aggro, just as it does for cans. Also, people should either be kicked out of noobcorps after a time, or let individual wardeccing occur.
Bryg Philomena Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:15:00 - [51] Originally by: Gaius Sejanus I just knew it wouldn't be hard to hoist Bryg on his own petard on this issue. See this thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=537732&page=1#16 So, no problem in telling other people to stop whining about aspects of gameplay that they don't like, but when when the shoe is on the other foot, you begin bawling like an infant over how unfair it is. Hypocrite. Pathetic. At least with an ore theif you can do something. They get aggroed. They have risk. So please, what is a 4 month old character in a noob corp, who never leaves hisec and doesnt risk aggression have to fear? Originally by: Aleric Vikyz Grow some balls and come live out in 0.0 with the big boys, we're always eager for a fight. Problem solved. Ohes noes!!! 0.0!! Too bad, I was an active member in ascn, and had a lot of fun in the BoB war. Too bad, been there done that. Along with the crapload of assets I have sitting in an NPC station and a jumpclone. I said it earlier. I was fine with no aggression. This was an example, along WITH THE MISSION RUNNERS. Too bad nobody decided to read that part. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
Stellar Vix State War Academy	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:34:00 - [52] You Snooze you loze, but lets be honest here there are a bunch of should have been out of that starting corp people that hang around in the noob corps for a couple of reasons: the stuff they hate about dealing with in corps, the taxes, the politics, and egos going back and forth, war decs if anything are at the bottom of the list tbh. The noob corp doesnt offer that much extra but with groups like SWA PVP cropping up that might change as it becomes a low risk learning reward environment without retailation which we in swa must respect and pick our targets carefully before we get major complaints from one allaince or another about being used as tools for a greater war, which I hope to damn my own organization we arent. The underlaying problem is that corps arent incentive enough for them to leave, that is the number one issue, most people who join corps feel abused and used like tools and its a very bad exeperince. The overhyped ness of things they can offer are lack luster always and lets not forget the back stabs and traitorisms that happen look at faceless pokemon the guy is doing excatly the no risk all reward thing there, he seems to have a passion against those that are organized. In SWA the worst you can do, is tell a bunch of pirates that hey swa noobs are heading your way to do some training, oddly this backfires because we hate going out and never finding targets to pew pew with. Corps need to get special offers something like empire issued campaigns or corp wide offers and LP tax that would help the corp out and create some very unique environments that arent available to the newbie corps. I dunno but thats my take on it. ========= 400x120 13kbs... SWA Qualified Instructor and Mascot or sorts Ensign Stellar Vix
Desiderious Gallente Setenta Corp	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:37:00 - [53] Whatever ship you used to kill those two command ships with, just stick a salvager on that . All you loose is one high slot. ----------------------------- Oink ^OO^ Your sig is too large. Please resize it so that it fits within 400x120. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:40:00 - [54] Wrecks belong to nobody/anybody. End of story. Deal with it.
Bryg Philomena Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:41:00 - [55] Originally by: Desiderious Whatever ship you used to kill those two command ships with, just stick a salvager on that . All you loose is one high slot. And the ship. As said before they had me in structure just as I finished. And again. This thread wasnt specifically about the salvage. It was about noob corps!! Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
cal nereus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.06.19 06:34:00 - [56] Edited by: cal nereus on 19/06/2007 06:35:07 The idea of having factions wardeccable (and the noob corps associated with said faction thus being available targets outside their faction space) is one possibility I mentioned earlier. The idea of booting people out of noob corps automatically is an interesting idea, and I guess they would be sent into a wardeccable NPC corp. The idea of individual wardecs seems to be too much of a hassle in my opinion. And I don't think the military police (CONCORD) would feel good about individuals declaring war on each other. CONCORD would much rather have people steal from each other than kill each other... And again, what about players who simply don't want to be in a war for a while? I guess one option is to constantly join war-less player corps, and then when they go to war, leave the corp and join another one (until eventually everyone catches wind and the guy can't get into ANY player corp).
Rangkai	Posted - 2007.06.19 06:52:00 - [57] In most cases, a noob should not be finding much command ship salvage in high sec.. so it was probably his lucky day. Salvaging random wrecks in highsec from a newbie corp has little risk and generally very little reward If you take your pvp fights to lowsec.. then you can shoot at anyone who is taking "your" salvage.
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:16:00 - [58] Edited by: Malcanis on 19/06/2007 07:14:51 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Lets see, what is it that us Carebears are told every time we whine about something..... Oh yeah. Fly with a friend. Have HIM salvage. Seriously though, a wreck is anyone's. First come, first serve. If you leave it laying in space someone will claim it first. QFT. As you say, that cuts both ways. Emotionally, I am against the idea of older characters abusing NPC corp status, but I haven't yet seen a cure that wasn't worse than the disease.
Grunanca	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:26:00 - [59] I like 3 of the ideas here. Salvage aggro War dec on single person in nub corp (however this should be limited to toons older then 6 months). Inability to do L4 missions in nub corp. All of them might be flawed in some way, but still...
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:36:00 - [60] Originally by: Bryg Philomena Discuss what you think. What's a tough guy like you doing in Empire? I don't see threads with NPC corp players asking for special treatment in low-sec or null-sec, so why are you trying to muck around with high-sec?

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