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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.19 18:58:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Donathan Slade whine whine whine, ***** ***** *****... Is that people always do? If something doesn't go your way you ***** and complain that CCP is nerfing nerfing... OMG THEY NERFING AGAIN!!!
I don't hear you complaining about the Drake, because it doesn't affect you, but if it did you would probably still be *****ing!!!
So you can't have a blasterthron!!! Get a blaster hyper which is the reason tehy were made, blasters, tank bonus.. get real and use the apropriate ship for the appropriate job. This is what CCP is balancing for. No, I don't like the EANM nef myself, especailly since nobdoy was complaining. But if you relate it to shields, they don't have a eanm equivalent for shield tanking sooo, bonus to armor tankers once again?
Quit playing if you don't like it or fly something else. Or, waste your money and watch your "elite of the elite" in SP get poped by the little tackle sniper gang that you can't shoot with their 40k scrams.
Guess what? I fly a Drake too. Why? It's really friggin good! It was nerfed (slightly) with Rev2. Guess what? I'm not whining about it! Why? Because it's FAIR! The Drake is STILL REALLY GOOD! It can still do it's job. It still has a great passive tank. IMO the nerf wasn't enough. It can still passive tank exceptionally well, and my shields now idle at 74% instead of 85% when being fired on by sentries.
The nerf didn't change a dang thing for my ship.
Because I said so...
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Temp Boi
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:04:00 -
[122]
Totally agree with the OP, the constant nerfs are just too much. Blasterthrons already have a **** poor tank, not to mention our DPS just isn't enough to make up for it. Tanks are too strong nowadays; there's something wrong when an all out gank fitted, damage rigged, damage implanted mega pilot with tech 2 ogres can be tanked by your run of the mill battleship.
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Sergis
Caldari Life Extermination Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:20:00 -
[123]
Im sry but if tehy were that elite they would know to fly a rokh. Also unlike you I fit a thing called a MWD, that is a Micro Warp Drive just incase you didnt know. And I use it to get away alot. It tends to do that very well. But your right sitting doing absolutely nothing when a carrier jumps in is much more honorable. --- Evil Thug [RAT.]<.-A-.> hits you, doing 24601.0 damage. |
Sergis
Caldari Life Extermination Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:20:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Sergis on 19/06/2007 19:20:13
--- Evil Thug [RAT.]<.-A-.> hits you, doing 24601.0 damage. |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:28:00 -
[125]
Edited by: murder one on 19/06/2007 19:29:04 A halfway decent setup after Rev2:
Megathron-
Highs: 7x Ion2s w/ Void. (Haven't tried it with faction AM yet)
Mids: T2 mwd, fleeting web, faint 20km scram, T2 heavy injector w/ 800s.
Lows: Large Accom Rep, 1600 Tungsten plate, Internal Force Field Array DC, 2x T2 EANM w/ Comp skills @5, 2x Mag field stabs.
Drones: Berserker IIs (5) or Ogre IIs (5) depending on expected targets.
Rigs: 3x Trimark Armor Rigs.
Implants: (this setup **will not** work without these implants) High Grade Slave set (~1.4+ bil ISK), +5% all turret damage implant (~250m+ ISK), +5% Large Hybrid implant (~250m+ ISK).
That's a little over 2bil in implants. The ship absolutely will not work without them. You will cap out or run out of armor every time in a solo fight with almost any other BS with equal skills. I can't remember off hand how much CPU I had left over, but it was around 0.5 or 1 CPU left or something.
It ends up with average resists (explosive is around 54% or so, Kin/therm around 66%) and something like 31.6k armor. It's REALLY SLOW, due to the plate and 3x armor rigs. Around 125m/sec base speed, and around 960m/sec w/ T2 MWD topped out. (and it takes forever to get up to speed) I MWDed 30km, and still didn't hit max speed by the time I got to my target.
Anyway, the above setup works fairly well- that is, it's able to compete (barely) with other battleships that don't use implants themselves, and just stick with a basic T2 fit. As soon as you add faction mods or implants to other BS, you're going to lose.
This also is referring to a straight up 1v1 fight with no EW or other screwy stuff. And if you run into a really nasty nos boat, like a 4 nos Maelstrom or Abaddon or a generic nos Domi ([sarcasm]never seen one of those ever[/sarcasm]) then you still might die anyway, if the pilot knows what he's doing.
I built a Hype using the same basic design, only with a tracking comp in the 5th mid to fix the tracking, one less T2 EANM due to the lost low, and a T2 LAR because of the increased CPU and grid on the Hype. I ended up with 1 CPU free. It does quite well, but is a little more cap hungry than the Mega is, with it's 8th gun and T2 LAR and lower resistances requiring the use of the rep more.
If you don't have perfect skills to fly these setups, I wouldn't even bother. You need maxed Nav skills for every little bit of speed, maxed Mech skills for that last little bit of resistance (and for speed due to Armor rigs), maxed gunnery skills are a given, and you had better have maxed drone skills to squeeze every last DPS out of your drones (all spec skills at 5).
Don't forget maxed engineering skills for that last bit of cap and shield, as you'll need every bit of it while you MWD 30km to your target, all the while being hit by torps with your sig radius the size of a Titan.
I still stand by my original post. Blasterthrons are a ship for the most elite, most experienced and most skilled of the PVP community. No other ship requires as much time and ISK to be used effectively, or even made barely competitive.
Because I said so...
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Mogrin
Caldari Spartan Fleet Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:39:00 -
[126]
If you played eve like an RPG and had a logistics ship repairing you then your blasterthron would be very valid tactic. Say like 4 blasterthrons, a blackbird, and a oneiros against 6 ravens. Something like that. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion |
clean cut
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:40:00 -
[127]
i think the imbalance resides in nos since that is what is fueling most tanks nowadays. they should just remove nos but leave neuts in. then give a percent bonus to the current bonused nos ships where neuts dnt remove some of your cap aswell.
lol but even then without adding that capwarfare to the equation i have a hard time seeing the blasterthron killing any tier 3 bs before dying.
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:42:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Mogrin If you played eve like an RPG and had a logistics ship repairing you then your blasterthron would be very valid tactic. Say like 4 blasterthrons, a blackbird, and a oneiros against 6 ravens. Something like that.
While it looks good in theory, it doesn't work in practice.
Because I said so...
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Pesadel0
Ordem dos Templarios Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:48:00 -
[129]
Want to be the elite off eve?
Try to fly minmatar.
I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP. |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:12:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Pesadel0 Want to be the elite off eve?
Try to fly minmatar.
I do fly Minmatar. All Nos/Torp Typhoon with a huge armor tank works great. (175m3 drone bay WTF?!) Maelstrom w/ 4x Heavy Diminishing Nos and 4x 800 AC IIs works great. Rupture works great. Hurricane is AWESOME.
I fail to see your point. Because I said so...
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Santa Anna
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:13:00 -
[131]
If you can't figure out how to fly a Megathron effectively then no changes CCP can make will help you
This is like your 50th whine thread on the subject. As always, Megathron is a well above-average solo ship and the best small gang ship in the game. It will continue to be in the future. If you ignore a would-be victim's ship bonuses and fill it up with NOS then it may be able to avoid dying long enough for you to cap out. This is the current counter to your preferred tactic. Everyone else in the game manages to deal with counters to their prefered tactics without constant epic whine threads. A Nosdomi may not die before a gank mega caps out, but 2 gank megas will handle two nos domis no problem. (Damage scales much better than tank, especially active tank.) If you want to play solo then fly a nosdomi for the 3-4 weeks until the Revelations 2.1 or 2.2 patch nerfs nos, then go back to your Mega. If you want to solo in your Mega now, work a bit better on target selection like everybody else. Hell, just stay near jump/dock range in your gank attempts -- no nos ship save the Domi should be able to take down your hitpoint buffer before you have time to deagress and jump out/dock and you should be able to gank everyone else.
No ship or tactic should be without a counter, but that seems to be all you ask for in your Mega threads. I see plenty of Megas about in pvp, most flown by players with far less than 30M SP, so they can't be that bad. They aren't FOTM I-Win buttons, and they shouldn't be.
BTW, to the extent that the EANM nerf forces some people to switch to 2x active + DC tank from a 2x EANM2 + DC tank (I'm very skeptical), the big losers are Minmatar and the big winners are Gallente. The resistance hole will likely move from Exp to Therm on these ships, which is good for ships that can field a full flight of Ogre 2's (esp if bonused) and bad for ships whose T2 ammo is Kin+Exp.
If you just don't like that CCP seems to be patching the game away from solo instaganks, EVE may not be a game for you in the future. Regardless of the effectiveness of their various boosts/nerfs, they've pretty consistently intended to extend the duration of fights and encourage well-coordinated group tactics. The decreasing effectiveness of your gank mega relative to tankier setups in solo pvp is the intended effect of CCP's efforts and from every dev blog I've read is a trend that is likely to continue indefinitely. |
El Torrent
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:15:00 -
[132]
I 100% agree with your argumentation, Murder One. Only thing that still kind of works, is slaves, plates, and gank. And that is now, even more difficult on cpu, although still manageable.
Btw: may I steal your nice sig? -- Hello World. |
Lore Isander
Caldari Sybrite Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:16:00 -
[133]
Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 19/06/2007 19:29:04 A halfway decent setup after Rev2:
Megathron-
Highs: 7x Ion2s w/ Void. (Haven't tried it with faction AM yet)
Mids: T2 mwd, fleeting web, faint 20km scram, T2 heavy injector w/ 800s.
Lows: Large Accom Rep, 1600 Tungsten plate, Internal Force Field Array DC, 2x T2 EANM w/ Comp skills @5, 2x Mag field stabs.
Drones: Berserker IIs (5) or Ogre IIs (5) depending on expected targets.
Rigs: 3x Trimark Armor Rigs.
Implants: (this setup **will not** work without these implants) High Grade Slave set (~1.4+ bil ISK), +5% all turret damage implant (~250m+ ISK), +5% Large Hybrid implant (~250m+ ISK).
And you would die to my fit any day: Linkage ---
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El Torrent
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:29:00 -
[134]
I use something very very similar to Lore Isander. One less MFS, one more EAN. More balanced, effective hp's versus damage. -- Hello World. |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:37:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Lore Isander
Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 19/06/2007 19:29:04 A halfway decent setup after Rev2:
Megathron-
Highs: 7x Ion2s w/ Void. (Haven't tried it with faction AM yet)
Mids: T2 mwd, fleeting web, faint 20km scram, T2 heavy injector w/ 800s.
Lows: Large Accom Rep, 1600 Tungsten plate, Internal Force Field Array DC, 2x T2 EANM w/ Comp skills @5, 2x Mag field stabs.
Drones: Berserker IIs (5) or Ogre IIs (5) depending on expected targets.
Rigs: 3x Trimark Armor Rigs.
Implants: (this setup **will not** work without these implants) High Grade Slave set (~1.4+ bil ISK), +5% all turret damage implant (~250m+ ISK), +5% Large Hybrid implant (~250m+ ISK).
And you would die to my fit any day: Linkage
I use a similar setup when I'm fighting in dock range. When I'm out and about, I require the use of a rep. Otherwise, one good fight and I'm toast on the second encounter. Because I said so...
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:38:00 -
[136]
Originally by: El Torrent I 100% agree with your argumentation, Murder One. Only thing that still kind of works, is slaves, plates, and gank. And that is now, even more difficult on cpu, although still manageable.
Btw: may I steal your nice sig?
If you want to hang that piece of crap in all your posts, go right ahead lol! Because I said so...
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Steyr Daghan
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:48:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Steyr Daghan on 19/06/2007 20:50:29
Originally by: Tonkin am i reading this right someone wants gallente boosted!!!
they have the best drones one of the best snipers, the domi with its ubber nos, best carrier, best mothership, 2 of the best hacs and the best crusier
so come again?
Well, what's strange or unusual about that? The forum is full of gallentes who either a) whine that they once couldn't kill something fast enough so now it must be nerfed or yelling that someone is a "carebear" because they suggest that they should not be forced to crosstrain in order to survive. Calling for their overpowered ships to be boosted is just the logical next step.
Your surprise surprises me.
EDIT: grammar and for clairity
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The RepoMan
Caldari Red Horizon Inc Red Horizon
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:10:00 -
[138]
did it ever occur to you that your perception that mass dps to win is a valid play tactic is in itself flawed, and that the months of "nerfs" that change this should probably tip you off that ccp thinks the same?
You claim balance on a 1v1 level but seem to want to win on a 1v1 level, I mean, seriously buddy get a clue. Blasterthrons, especially plated/passive ones are allready overpowered in most situations.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:19:00 -
[139]
Quote: Blasterthrons, especially plated/passive ones are allready overpowered in most situations.
And if you don't believe this we can try it on the test server any day:) But you just seem to lazy to dock after a encounter to repair your ship! And it seems that your mega performs so well, even tough u use rep and capinjectors, that you can take on multiple targets before you have to redock and load a full cargohold of 800's?
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:35:00 -
[140]
Originally by: d026
Quote: Blasterthrons, especially plated/passive ones are allready overpowered in most situations.
And if you don't believe this we can try it on the test server any day:) But you just seem to lazy to dock after a encounter to repair your ship! And it seems that your mega performs so well, even tough u use rep and capinjectors, that you can take on multiple targets before you have to redock and load a full cargohold of 800's?
It's easier to stash GSCs full of 800s and ammo in remote territory when you're flying solo than it is to get repaired. Because I said so...
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Mogrin
Caldari Spartan Fleet Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:41:00 -
[141]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Mogrin If you played eve like an RPG and had a logistics ship repairing you then your blasterthron would be very valid tactic. Say like 4 blasterthrons, a blackbird, and a oneiros against 6 ravens. Something like that.
While it looks good in theory, it doesn't work in practice.
Sure it does, it just isn't practiced. Logistics boats can pump out some insane repair numbers like running 3 large t2 reps indefinitely. But nobody flies them, takes way too many skill points. CCP's bad. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Silverized
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:48:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Silverized on 19/06/2007 21:47:05 Fly the mega with neutblaster setup, its alot better then ions with tank. and you wont have the issue with being short on fittings. And tbfh you really dont need a full HG slave set to beat another t2 fitted BS.. some trimarks will do fine. ------------------------------
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JoCool
MASS
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:56:00 -
[143]
Originally by: murder one I don't have my 'own race' in Eve. I fly Hurricanes, Drakes, Rokhs, Maelstroms, Typhoons. Whatever is effective. It just disgusts me when I have to abandon any ship that doesn't conform to the 4x Heavy Nos, 4x whatever else cookie cutter template in order to compete in PVP.
It's a **** poor indication of CCP's lack of competence with respect to game design and insight into combat mechanics within Eve itself. Nos fights and waiting for your target to run out of cap charges is **not fun**. Requiring two, if not three ships in a gang in order to ensure a decisive and quick kill against a single target is **not fun**.
CCP continues to water down combat in general, and solo combat specifically.
I have no 'own 'race' Jim. I fly a Drake, it was nerfed a little, but not enough to make any difference with how I use it or how effective it is. The EANM nerf doesn't touch any of my other ships: Typhoon, Dominix, Rokh, Myrm, Ishtar, Maelstrom, Brutix, Vexor, Rifter, Hurricane, Rupture, etc. etc.
I just can't stand flying some weak ass lamer Caldari nos boat, just like everyone else, when there really is no need to, if CCP will just stop nerfing the Blasterthron.
I concurr, Nosferatus might be over the top and need a hit with TomB's good old nerf bat. They are the bane of a living solo PVP.
However, on TQ I see Nosferatus much more rarely fitted than in the impression your text made.
If you engage Nos heavy enemies regularly on TQ you will need to counteract. At the moment you might not want to go solo. Get a friend with jammers or one with enough firepower so that you guys can overcome the target's tank, even if you have a 2on2 or 2on3 with hostile Nos ships you can succeed, some battleship pilots use 2 Heavy Cap Boosters.
However a Nos is still the killer numero uno to medium sized ships, as we might agree.
Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool |
Dr Ming
Mindworks
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Posted - 2007.06.19 23:05:00 -
[144]
- Gallente drone boats are not the same ships as gallente blaster boats.
- When you read corp chat and see some random scrub say "lolz gallente are teh overpowered to the max", their talking about SOME gallente boats (which have good synergy with NOS).
- The OP is pointing out that Dominix are a lot more effective than Megathrons with current game mechanics. Dominix are gallente boats. So claiming this is a 'gallente issue thread' is just pointing out that you couldn't even make it through the original post before you got confused.
------------------------------------------------
I've been trying some diffrent things to try and make the Gallente blaster boats feel less lackluster. It isn't solopwnmobile stuff, but it has at least been somewhat effective in some solo fights.
1) ECM drones instead of combat drones.
-ECM drones counter NOS. This shuts down absurd tanks, and protects your cap.
-Blasters do a lot of damage, so losing the drone damage isn't really a huge drop in DPS compared to the hit a heavy active tank takes when it loses the extra cap from a NOS.
-Blaster boats get into point blank range, so you can scoop-release your ECM drones non-stop until you get a jam cycle off.
-You have a chance to run away from a single target.
2) Drop a mid slot and find the grid for a second injector of some sort. Likley your web.
-Make sure you've got some way of doing some ammount of damage past 10km.
-Using webber drones can be somewhat effective. Not as effective as a webber, but more effective than nothing.
-You can fit 1-2 energy neuts. If their NOSing and your neuting, their going to cap out and then their tank will fail, and your reasonable blaster damage will chew them up.
-Sometimes your going to have to turn the MWD on and leave it on. But their going to have to turn their MWD on and leave it on to stay away from you. Since your dual injecting, their going to get tired first.
----------------------------
Blaster ships could really use some love though.
-They take a ton of SP to fly.
-they suffer in group fights since they have to MWD into point blank range for each target. Raven pilots whine about their damage while ignoring the range on their weapons. You don't appreciate what weapon range means in practice until you've flown a Gallente blaster ship.
-Megathrons are dodgeable. If you see one barreling down on you, just start moving. There is a good chance that the pilot will miss you, and will have to spend a lot of cap and time to get into optimal blaster range.
-Afterburners > Blaster ships. Turn on your afterburner which sips cap, and pull out of his optimal range. Watch him cap out when he uses his MWD to get back in range, or kill him once you get far enough away that your lower optimal DPS is higher than his non-optimal DPS.
Of course, everyone just goes to quickfit and makes some sort of hypothetical setup, looks at its maximum DPS and screams bloody murder because a blaster ship's theroy-peen is bigger than your ship's theroy-peen.
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.19 23:05:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Mogrin
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Mogrin If you played eve like an RPG and had a logistics ship repairing you then your blasterthron would be very valid tactic. Say like 4 blasterthrons, a blackbird, and a oneiros against 6 ravens. Something like that.
While it looks good in theory, it doesn't work in practice.
Sure it does, it just isn't practiced. Logistics boats can pump out some insane repair numbers like running 3 large t2 reps indefinitely. But nobody flies them, takes way too many skill points. CCP's bad.
If I had a 6 man gang, I wouldn't be wasting an entire person on a Logistics ship. I'd have 5x Blasterthrons and 1x Rook. Because I said so...
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Constantinee
Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.06.20 00:04:00 -
[146]
tbh who ever decided to raise t2 eanm's should be slapped in the face with a metal tipped boot.
Now i have a feeling that there will be more navy megas and vindicators on the battlefield. Thankfully after i had gotten my vindi fully pimped i now no longer even fly a regular mega for solo hunting. however if i were to id be reduced to 6 guns. This is NOT what the mega was intended to do. i said this once before, this all could have ben avoided by just giving the damn explosive crystals to the amarr but ssp yet again decided to screw gallante ship flyers. thx ccp, like we dont suffer enough on cpu.
Omerta Syndicate |
Foulis
Minmatar Chosen Path FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.20 00:07:00 -
[147]
Have you ever considered that if you are losing to pilots with a fraction of your SP that you might not be a very good pilot?
Maybe?
Blasterthron is one of the most skill intensive ships around, not SP, which doesn't matter after a certain point, but actual piloting talent.
----
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
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Santa Anna
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Posted - 2007.06.20 08:50:00 -
[148]
While I'm not a big skill points uber alles guy like Murder One is, I think there may be a valid solution to his conflict with the current trend in EVE patches/changes...
Make the specialization skills more important. 2% damage per level is nice, but when you go from lvl 4 to lvl 5 in (Say) large blaster spec it's only a 1.85% improvement for a month of training.
How about expanding the benefits of specialization?
So for each level of (say) large blaster spec you get +2% dmg mod on t2 large blasters -2% grid on t2 large blasters -2% cpu on large blasters -2% penalty on t2 large blaster ammo
or something like that? That way people who really specialize towards a certain playstyle would reap a nontrivial reward for their investment. |
Horus Dark
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Posted - 2007.06.20 09:17:00 -
[149]
murder stop making 10 posts with whining about megas kk tnx
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Lore Isander
Caldari Sybrite Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.20 09:23:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Silverized Edited by: Silverized on 19/06/2007 21:47:05 Fly the mega with neutblaster setup, its alot better then ions with tank. and you wont have the issue with being short on fittings. And tbfh you really dont need a full HG slave set to beat another t2 fitted BS.. some trimarks will do fine.
You wont kill another properly setup battleship with a Slaveless NeutronMega, I know this from experience.
I had 15k armor left after fighting full t2'd Megathron and Apoc. So I lost 30k armor in the fight, a Mega without slaves has like 25k? 30k? ---
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