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Faction ammo needs to be stopped

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Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Pink Teletubby Well, its a pitty for those that used to produce t1 ammo... well such is life The LP store requires 5000 rounds of the respective T1 ammo type as well as LPs for the faction ammo, so for each shot of faction ammo, 1 shot of T1 ammo is required. ;-) this is a free post provided to you by a member of the EVE community.
Lilian Long	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:21:00 - [32] The faction ammo that you get from the LP store has only a 15% advantage over normal ammo, at least for empire factions. I guess with pirate factions it's the same, you will get the lower faction ammo at the LP store like Archangel EMP L, but something like Domination EMP L with its 25% bonus is officer-drop, so it stays quite rare.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:23:00 - [33] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Pink Teletubby Well, its a pitty for those that used to produce t1 ammo... well such is life The LP store requires 5000 rounds of the respective T1 ammo type as well as LPs for the faction ammo, so for each shot of faction ammo, 1 shot of T1 ammo is required. ;-) What become useless is T2 ammunitions, unless the drawbacks are heavily reduced. Especially the larger size as increase in cost for the faction ammo for the increase in size is very moderate.
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:25:00 - [34] Originally by: Alrich skill only is 10%... that IS quite a lot... but i like the change As you say t2 with max spec skills and faction ammo will give 10% better DPS. So you have a nice trade off to consider given the easier fitting requirements of named over t2 guns. Do I want that 10% extra DPS or do I want extra cpu/grid to spend on tanking, can I fit larger t1 named guns that I can t2 ? As far as I see it the easier availability of faction ammo just increases player choice which is always a good thing. It also allows new players to be more competitive earlier in their careers, again a positive step. Selfish, very experienced players will see this as a problem is it cuts the level of edge that get over their less expeienced counterparts - but frankly they shouldnt need it. Gane experience and better alround skills should be enough. T2 ammo producers won't like the fall in demand, but they have had plenty of time to amke a fortune so again I don't see a problem. Navy ammo is: 1) Available to everyone 2) Useable by everyone As you say - a good change
Jurgen Cartis	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:51:00 - [35] Short range T2 ammo just got kinda screwed. Long range T2 ammo will be fine. Navy Antimatter/EMP/Multifreq does almost as much damage as the short range ammo with no penalties (except greater expense), but faction Iron/Radio/Carbonized Lead cannot compete with Spike and Barrage and Conflagration for range or damage. Base T1 ammo will remain standard in missions, of course. NPC rats that give 30000 isk in bounty aren't worth hurling missiles worth 2500 a shot at. Now, the BS rats might be another story, but so long as you can down em with regular missiles I see no reason to waste expensive high end navy ammo on em. In PvP however. . . Navy Antimatter will be standard issue.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:53:00 - [36] Originally by: Pink Teletubby Well, its a pitty for those that used to produce t1 ammo... well such is life Not true, you must cash in LP, ISK and 1:1 of the t1 ammo of that type. This is good for ammo sellers as they will get a quick surge in sales as people cash in for their new faction ammo.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:59:00 - [37] Originally by: Jurgen Cartis Short range T2 ammo just got kinda screwed. Long range T2 ammo will be fine. Navy Antimatter/EMP/Multifreq does almost as much damage as the short range ammo with no penalties (except greater expense), but faction Iron/Radio/Carbonized Lead cannot compete with Spike and Barrage and Conflagration for range or damage. Base T1 ammo will remain standard in missions, of course. NPC rats that give 30000 isk in bounty aren't worth hurling missiles worth 2500 a shot at. Now, the BS rats might be another story, but so long as you can down em with regular missiles I see no reason to waste expensive high end navy ammo on em. In PvP however. . . Navy Antimatter will be standard issue. Actually Autocannon users will still be forced to use T2 ammunition as Barrage gives a +50% to falloff but there is no T1 ammunition that increases falloff, only optimal. So for Projectile users, only those who use Arties will find it useful.
Rafein	Posted - 2007.06.20 10:02:00 - [38] Originally by: Pink Teletubby Well, its a pitty for those that used to produce t1 ammo... well such is life Not really. You need an equal amount of T1 ammo in the offer to get Faction ammo. 5k Wrath Cruise Missiles, +LP and isk, turns into 5k Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missiles.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.06.20 10:24:00 - [39] Lol a whole page of people telling the guy that t1 ammo producers arn't getting a raw deal ;)
Ulii	Posted - 2007.06.20 10:34:00 - [40] Originally by: Nian Banks Lol a whole page of people telling the guy that t1 ammo producers arn't getting a raw deal ;) ßlmoust like the fighter-thread... they will still sell ammo to the ones changing it in for faction ammo
Jennai Leonard J. Crabs Legal Consortium	Posted - 2007.06.20 11:02:00 - [41] Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler T2 ammo producers won't like the fall in demand, but they have had plenty of time to amke a fortune so again I don't see a problem. make a fortune on T2 ammo? hahahahaha it already built faster than it sold (which is impressive considering the buildtimes on it) and had crap profits due to slow building and slower sales. I have two ammos and both of them combined make less money than a single BS bpo. on the up side, the addition of T2 ammo invention is unlikely to have any effect on the market because no one's going to bother inventing ammo when the module market is so much better.
Edenn	Posted - 2007.06.20 11:10:00 - [42] Originally by: Jita Alt If it's that easy everyone can get it which makes it balanced Very true! /agreed
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.20 11:16:00 - [43] It's actually a boost to T1 ammo producers, as the drop in demand in T2 ammo will be countered by increased demand for T1, for exchanging for faction.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.06.20 11:26:00 - [44] Originally by: Ulii Originally by: Nian Banks Lol a whole page of people telling the guy that t1 ammo producers arn't getting a raw deal ;) ßlmoust like the fighter-thread... they will still sell ammo to the ones changing it in for faction ammo Well glad I have almost all t1 projectile ammo bpo's researched to 1000me and 1000pe ;P
Bizz Lizz	Posted - 2007.06.20 11:27:00 - [45] Originally by: Jennai Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler T2 ammo producers won't like the fall in demand, but they have had plenty of time to amke a fortune so again I don't see a problem. make a fortune on T2 ammo? hahahahaha it already built faster than it sold (which is impressive considering the buildtimes on it) and had crap profits due to slow building and slower sales. I have two ammos and both of them combined make less money than a single BS bpo. on the up side, the addition of T2 ammo invention is unlikely to have any effect on the market because no one's going to bother inventing ammo when the module market is so much better. I was at least earning a bit with Barrage M. In the end around 300mil/month. Since people usually only need a few thousand shot for pvp, the price of 830isk/shot didn't really hurt anyone I think. When one of my ships for 20 to 300 mil isk dies, it usually happens before I have wasted 5% of it's value in ammo. Now that BPO can be added to the pool of nearly worthless BPOs, but the reason is not faction ammo, but ammo invention. Grrr.
E'lucid	Posted - 2007.06.20 17:24:00 - [46] it's not really any more powerfull than t2 you just don't need as many skills to use it, i guess it just gives new players the oppertunity to experience something a little better a littele earlier for their efforts in missions, not biggy imo
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.06.20 17:32:00 - [47] Originally by: E'lucid it's not really any more powerfull than t2 you just don't need as many skills to use it, i guess it just gives new players the oppertunity to experience something a little better a littele earlier for their efforts in missions, not biggy imo Oh realy? So tell me, where in the patch notes does it mention T2 Projectile ammunition that does EM damage?
Spawinte Gallente The Templars Knights	Posted - 2007.06.20 17:38:00 - [48] Faction ammo was hard to come by before and now its not. All is well with the world. Stop complaining.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.06.20 17:42:00 - [49] Edited by: Black Scorpio on 20/06/2007 17:41:51 Originally by: Paradox Eve And for the drone ships? And the main balance issue is with tank vs gank, not damage of ship A vs ship B. ooo here we go.. uuuhh mommy and for the drone shiiippps, .. you're lucky NOS is not nerfed! stop whining!
Death Merchant InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.20 17:49:00 - [50] I knew if I said my prayers every night, ate my vegetables, fed the dog regularly, and told the wife/kids that I loved them everyday that god would reward me with Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L so that I may kill people.
Cheunger BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.06.20 17:53:00 - [51] Originally by: Paradox Eve Nope. I just dont think faction ammo should be so readily available, given such a big benefit. shrug Why not? Faction loot is readily available.
Jainyer Naughty 40	Posted - 2007.06.20 17:54:00 - [52] extra dimension to pvp....persoanlly don't see the problem, easier to come by then easier to fit in my guns
Futureface01 Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.06.20 17:59:00 - [53] If'n you are a zillionare and dont even look at the price when you buy something, the faction ammo change looks like a handout. If'n you are everybody else, you need to do a little math, and seperate PVP from PVE. For PVP, sure you'll spend the bucks and fire faction ammo. For PVE, you'll see that you must pay 840isk to 'upgrade' each cruise missile to the faction version. Thats not even counting the loyalty point cost of 4000ish. So lets say you get lucky and draw an 'extravaganza' mission.... You fire off 3000 cruise missiles. You spend an additional 2.5m isk over your normal ammo cost. Cutting about 10 to 15 percent off your ISK profit and cuts your LP profit by 40 to 50 percent. If you use faction ammo, you can clear the mission faster but you do lose a lot of your profit for doing so.
milinkoee Bastage Incorporated	Posted - 2007.06.20 18:08:00 - [54] Originally by: Jeff Anderson did you get shot at? More likely he owns a t2 ammo BPO ;-) Bastage, Inc. Worst Pirates Ever!!!
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.20 18:15:00 - [55] Originally by: Death Merchant I knew if I said my prayers every night, ate my vegetables, fed the dog regularly, and told the wife/kids that I loved them everyday that god would reward me with Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L so that I may kill people.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.20 18:20:00 - [56] Originally by: Pink Teletubby Well, its a pitty for those that used to produce t1 ammo... well such is life Like hell it is. You need T1 standard ammo to do the conversion. I was looking at the Caldari Navy Large Antimatter rounds like a hungry baby staring at Pam Anderson...
Zar Dim Minmatar Anus Horriblis	Posted - 2007.06.20 18:33:00 - [57] Well, from the other hand it does make T2 rage obsolete. The difference in damage only 5% BUT have no stupid drawbacks of rage(fury) missiles. Not that i would like them to nerf faction ammo, just boost T2 high damage missiles!!!
Arcangel777 Caldari Venture X	Posted - 2007.06.20 18:58:00 - [58] Is this the biggest whine thread ever? Grow some dude, Rage torps are now out damaged by the caldari navy torps. and they are really easy to obtain. HOW coudl this be bad? are you a noob? shoudl we whine loud enough to get faction mining crystals? go use some faction ammo rather that whine about it, jeez whata waste of a thread
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.06.20 19:10:00 - [59] Originally by: Ulii Originally by: murder one Originally by: Paradox Eve Faction ammo is far, far too easy to obtain now IMO. It is easy to attain and quite cheap from agents now, and the benefits it provides are absolutely huge. It gives a 15% to 25% boost to damage over regular, t1 ammo. No skill or implant even compares to such a huge boost. Unless something changes, I predict that no one other than complete noobs will be using normal ammo by the end of the month. t2 ammo also becomes much less worthwhile, in many variants. The cost or the LP requirements should be higher, I think. Anyone else feel the same? Was it really intended to give a near universal 20ish% boost to all ship damage (other than drone ships)? Who would be silly enough to continue using t1 ammo? I made a post about this about two months ago in the game development forum. Go look it up. You're a little late to the party. you might want to change the text under your sig... dollars and eve stuff dont match... think devs will get angry good point. Thanx BUYING ZAINOU 'DEADEYE' ZGL1000 IMPLANTS, PAYING WELL, CONVO/MAIL IN-GAME
Kolwrath	Posted - 2007.06.20 19:21:00 - [60] Edited by: Kolwrath on 20/06/2007 19:21:06 To the OP: Nope dont feel the same at all. Everyone can use Faction ammo now, from the 1 day old newbie to the 4 year vet. So due to that sole factor alone, its balanced. Also Faction ammo is not cheap. Its actually pretty expensive. On the surface yeah it looks like a bargain, but for those of us who run missions and go through 1000-2000 rounds in an hour, faction ammo is NOT a good option. It cuts into profits way too much. In Pvp it will become the defacto ammo for non T2 guns ... which will give non vets a decent chance against the T2 fitting BBQ mobiles that vets fly. Simply put I dont think your argument holds any weight. To me you are saying "faction ammo, although its accessible to everyone, which really means its balanced across the board, is over powered even though it isent, and must be nerfed". ....

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