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Faction ammo needs to be stopped

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Angry Lo	Posted - 2007.06.20 19:23:00 - [61] Originally by: Arcangel777 Rage torps are now out damaged by the caldari navy torps. and they are really easy to obtain. HOW coudl this be bad? So what is the point of Rage torps then? Note Rages still outdamage Navy torps when you slap 2 TP by 5% (i'm PVPing in Raven ) But no one in sane mind will fit Rages when you can use Navies. I do think there should be something changed in faction ammos to make them worthwhile. For Crusies, Navies outperform Furies and do almost like Precisions for smaller targets. So in fact they make all t2 cruises obsolete.
Kolwrath	Posted - 2007.06.20 19:26:00 - [62] Originally by: Gypsio III It's actually a boost to T1 ammo producers, as the drop in demand in T2 ammo will be countered by increased demand for T1, for exchanging for faction. Wow good point.
Zar Dim Minmatar Anus Horriblis	Posted - 2007.06.20 19:26:00 - [63] Originally by: Kolwrath Edited by: Kolwrath on 20/06/2007 19:21:06 On the surface yeah it looks like a bargain, but for those of us who run missions and go through 1000-2000 rounds in an hour, faction ammo is NOT a good option. It cuts into profits way too much. OK, it's fairly easy to get 30mil per hour in good lvl4 spot. So even if faction ammo will reduce time to complete mission by 10% it's still a bonus comparing to non using them.
Kolwrath	Posted - 2007.06.20 19:36:00 - [64] Edited by: Kolwrath on 20/06/2007 19:36:39 Originally by: Zar Dim Originally by: Kolwrath Edited by: Kolwrath on 20/06/2007 19:21:06 On the surface yeah it looks like a bargain, but for those of us who run missions and go through 1000-2000 rounds in an hour, faction ammo is NOT a good option. It cuts into profits way too much. OK, it's fairly easy to get 30mil per hour in good lvl4 spot. So even if faction ammo will reduce time to complete mission by 10% it's still a bonus comparing to non using them. Yeah ... a bonus at a price. One of the earlier posters figured it would cost an extra 2.5 mill per run of angel extra. So by using faction ammo I am getting a roughly 10% boost in DPS for a rough 10% loss in profits. (yeah its bad math ... but eventually sombody will post a profit vs bonus FAQ for faction ammo and then we will have some hard data on the profitability / usefullness of faction ammo. Until then I think the whinning should be toned down. We dont know what the effect of faction ammo is going to be yet. Its not een 24 hours into it yet. Give it 6 months and then we will know what kind of effect it will have) Really I think we need to wait and see how it plays out. I dont think faction is going to be uber like people think. Once the price for it stabalises on the market I think we will see it get used in non-vet PVP and thats about it. The stuff is just too expensive when you look at it on a large scale.
Keira Fordring Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.06.20 19:45:00 - [65] Originally by: Pink Teletubby Well, its a pitty for those that used to produce t1 ammo... well such is life Not really. All the faction ammo I looked at had a requirement of LP, ISK and the same quantity of T1 ammo. For example to buy 5000 CN Pirhana Light Missles it also cost 5000 regular Pirhana Light Missles. IMO the faction ammo isn't all that great for the hassle of having to gain LP to buy. None of what I looked at offered anything except a few extra points in damage. Missles at least didn't improve velocity or flight time.
Arvald Caldari The Last Prophecy	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:17:00 - [66] Originally by: Captain Batou Originally by: tarin adur Wow,patch has been out for 4 hours and already there's nerf this threads...shame I know, right? I think a lot of the players have forgotten that this game's main premise is the adaptation of man to hostile and foreign environments. If it was all the same, all the time, it would get boring. Even if you had a Titan and 50 trillion isk. Especially so.... Roll with the punches, adapt to a new environment, have fun, for God's sake. It's a *GAME*. It's meant to challenge you, to stimulate your mind, to evoke emotions. If you wanna whine about how it's not fair that your 4 year old character lost money and now has to compete with new ones with better weapons, then quit. It's not much different in the real world, right? Setbacks, obstacles, and challenges....It's what makes it fun and interesting to be human. So let this game be fun and intersting. Quit trying to strangle the the challenge out of it. dude.....i want you in my corp....now ===============================================
Rooker Lysian Enterprises United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:23:00 - [67] Originally by: Captain Batou AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! This is SOOOOO funny to me. I'm a noob (in case you couldn't tell) and I love watching all you older players scramble about. I have lost 15 cruisers in 21 days to guys with HUGE advantages (and will, in all likelihood, continue to do so). I love that the playing field has been leveled A LITTLE. I'll probably still get blown out of the sky on a regular basis for the next year but the fact that you'll be attacking me with a little more reservation makes me smile. Thank you CCP for frustrating all the people who have been frustrating me. I hope your Tech2-Super Beefy-Uber Titan-Star Killer goes down wheezing like the last dying fart of an old, dirty bum. May your impending death come with the cheers of a thousand angry noobs. LOL.... This one wins the thread -- SAVE EANM FROM THE NERFBAT!
Lordius Karaith	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:26:00 - [68] Originally by: Captain Batou AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! This is SOOOOO funny to me. I'm a noob (in case you couldn't tell) and I love watching all you older players scramble about. I have lost 15 cruisers in 21 days to guys with HUGE advantages (and will, in all likelihood, continue to do so). I love that the playing field has been leveled A LITTLE. I'll probably still get blown out of the sky on a regular basis for the next year but the fact that you'll be attacking me with a little more reservation makes me smile. Thank you CCP for frustrating all the people who have been frustrating me. I hope your Tech2-Super Beefy-Uber Titan-Star Killer goes down wheezing like the last dying fart of an old, dirty bum. May your impending death come with the cheers of a thousand angry noobs. I think this guy just won the thread. Kudos. \o/
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:31:00 - [69] Originally by: Arcangel777 Is this the biggest whine thread ever? Grow some dude, Rage torps are now out damaged by the caldari navy torps. and they are really easy to obtain. HOW coudl this be bad? What he said, t2 rage missiles BLOW, HARD. Especially the torps. Now there's a better alternative, what's the problem? That faction ammo "should" be rare for imaginary reasons? Whatever.
Zar Dim Minmatar Anus Horriblis	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:37:00 - [70] Originally by: Incantare Originally by: Arcangel777 Is this the biggest whine thread ever? Grow some dude, Rage torps are now out damaged by the caldari navy torps. and they are really easy to obtain. HOW coudl this be bad? What he said, t2 rage missiles BLOW, HARD. Especially the torps. Now there's a better alternative, what's the problem? That faction ammo "should" be rare for imaginary reasons? Whatever. The problem is why to use rages. I'm not trying to nerf, i'm pro t2 ammo boost actually. But right now there is absolutly no situation when it's better to use rages instead of faction torps.
Rooker Lysian Enterprises United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:38:00 - [71] Heavy Neutron II + Navy AM M = hawt sex <3 I agree it is a little too cheap, but ... ummm..... wait til I've got a few hundred thousand rounds of Navy AM L and M before adjusting anything I absolutely love it though. Somebody, intentionally or not, just circumvented Tuxford's unwanted and highly unpopular nerf of T2 ammo of last year. Void just went the way of the defender missile and Javelin. Spike and Null will still be useful though, because even faction Iron can't touch it for range. -- SAVE EANM FROM THE NERFBAT!
Exlegion KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:47:00 - [72] Rage torpedoes are for extremely large targets (very situational). Think POS and capital ships. Faction torpedoes in no way make them obsolete. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Pink Teletubby	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:57:00 - [73] Ok didnt know you needed T1 ammo Do I win anything for being the most ignorant and most replyed to poster in this thread?
Pink Teletubby	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:57:00 - [74] Ok didnt know you needed T1 ammo Do I win anything for being the most ignorant and most replyed to poster in this thread?
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.06.20 21:02:00 - [75] Originally by: Exlegion Rage torpedoes are for extremely large targets (very situational). Think POS and capital ships. Faction torpedoes in no way make them obsolete. Rage torps were made useless in Rev 1, not in Rev 2. They should give them back their old 50% damage bonus and 1000m sig, then they at least have a role again. Thank you SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in tur
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.06.20 21:02:00 - [76] Originally by: Exlegion Rage torpedoes are for extremely large targets (very situational). Think POS and capital ships. Faction torpedoes in no way make them obsolete. Rage torps were made useless in Rev 1, not in Rev 2. They should give them back their old 50% damage bonus and 1000m sig, then they at least have a role again. Thank you SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in tur
Hanse Davion Gallente Jane's Clone Emporium	Posted - 2007.06.20 21:04:00 - [77] Originally by: Captain Batou AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! This is SOOOOO funny to me. I'm a noob (in case you couldn't tell) and I love watching all you older players scramble about. I have lost 15 cruisers in 21 days to guys with HUGE advantages (and will, in all likelihood, continue to do so). I love that the playing field has been leveled A LITTLE. I'll probably still get blown out of the sky on a regular basis for the next year but the fact that you'll be attacking me with a little more reservation makes me smile. Thank you CCP for frustrating all the people who have been frustrating me. I hope your Tech2-Super Beefy-Uber Titan-Star Killer goes down wheezing like the last dying fart of an old, dirty bum. May your impending death come with the cheers of a thousand angry noobs. ROFLMAO Welcome to Eve, you will do well here!! If you looking for corp to join hit me up in game we need fresh blood like you. 2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage.
Hanse Davion Gallente Jane's Clone Emporium	Posted - 2007.06.20 21:04:00 - [78] Originally by: Captain Batou AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! This is SOOOOO funny to me. I'm a noob (in case you couldn't tell) and I love watching all you older players scramble about. I have lost 15 cruisers in 21 days to guys with HUGE advantages (and will, in all likelihood, continue to do so). I love that the playing field has been leveled A LITTLE. I'll probably still get blown out of the sky on a regular basis for the next year but the fact that you'll be attacking me with a little more reservation makes me smile. Thank you CCP for frustrating all the people who have been frustrating me. I hope your Tech2-Super Beefy-Uber Titan-Star Killer goes down wheezing like the last dying fart of an old, dirty bum. May your impending death come with the cheers of a thousand angry noobs. ROFLMAO Welcome to Eve, you will do well here!! If you looking for corp to join hit me up in game we need fresh blood like you. 2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage.
Kiyano Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.06.20 21:06:00 - [79] Originally by: Captain Batou Originally by: tarin adur Wow,patch has been out for 4 hours and already there's nerf this threads...shame I know, right? I think a lot of the players have forgotten that this game's main premise is the adaptation of man to hostile and foreign environments. If it was all the same, all the time, it would get boring. Even if you had a Titan and 50 trillion isk. Especially so.... Roll with the punches, adapt to a new environment, have fun, for God's sake. It's a *GAME*. It's meant to challenge you, to stimulate your mind, to evoke emotions. If you wanna whine about how it's not fair that your 4 year old character lost money and now has to compete with new ones with better weapons, then quit. It's not much different in the real world, right? Setbacks, obstacles, and challenges....It's what makes it fun and interesting to be human. So let this game be fun and intersting. Quit trying to strangle the the challenge out of it. A refreshing view you have there heh, nice one
Exlegion KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.20 21:07:00 - [80] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Exlegion Rage torpedoes are for extremely large targets (very situational). Think POS and capital ships. Faction torpedoes in no way make them obsolete. Rage torps were made useless in Rev 1, not in Rev 2. They should give them back their old 50% damage bonus and 1000m sig, then they at least have a role again. Hey, I agree. Both T2 torp versions are useless. But that's a different story for a different day. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2007.06.20 22:25:00 - [81] Most of you have just posted pointless flames. Yeah, yeah, I know, everybody wants to have faction stuff and huge damage so they can sit around in thier underwear telling themselves how uber their ships are, but you guys completely miss the point. And with no reasonable argument of any kind, you really shouldn't be posting in this thread. ---------------------------- As for the actual arguments: This move is not balanced simply because everyone can use the ammo. It is an indirect nerf to all drone ships, all "tanking" ships, a fair amount of t2 ammo, POSes, capital ships, and NPCs. I think the implications fo the move are far wider than most of you give it credit for. I can't speak for the profit changes in mission running for any race other than Gallente running lev 4 missions (as that is all I have done the math on). Using a rail Megathron, I use about an average of 2000 anitmatter (regular) ammo per "long", highest LP missions- at a cost of around 110 isk per unit. 5000 navy anitmatter costs 2.4 mil, plus 110isk x the 5000 needed for offer = 3 mil isk for 5000 or about 1.2 mil isk for 2000. But with a boost of 18% damage (15% for the ammo, with the multiplicative effects of skills boosting it higher), I fire 18% fewer shots: 1.2 mil - (1.2 x .18) = 970k isk. But I was already spending 2000 ammo at 110 isk per shot, so we can subtract that out: 970k - 220k = 750k isk. But Ill also be getting the mission rewards 18% faster, at a rate of about 2.25 mil per mission: 750k - (2.25mil x .18) = 345k isk. The cut into my profits is only 345k isk per mission, which is WELL WORTH the nearly 20% gain to LPs per hour. So much for the "too expensive for missioning" argument.
Alpine 69 Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.06.20 22:39:00 - [82] Originally by: Jim McGregor I frigging HATE that I have to go to work today. I actually forgot to go to work today Sweet love for the ones that mod my sig <3
Chainsaw Plankton	Posted - 2007.06.21 00:13:00 - [83] i think hes just scared as he probably had a few t2 ammo bpos. i personally wont use faction ammo much. well at least not much until i get my navy raven and +5 set :D
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2007.06.21 20:48:00 - [84] What, you mean all you guys can do is post flames? No one can actually hold a meaningful argument/conversation about this? Pathetic...
Xilimyth Derlin Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.06.22 00:09:00 - [85] I could post a reasonable argument. However, I look at it as a standpoint for Tech1 producers to work on a near-tech2 level. If a Tech 1 industrialist builds ammo, converts it to faction and sells it at Tech 2 levels, that more choice. There's some negatives in there somewhere, but I can't really find as many. It just gives flexibility to the system as a whole no matter how I try to cut it. ---- BEGIN SIGNATURE ---- Currently looking for a Corp. See my Bio in game for a resume and contact me if you feel my goals are in line ^^. ---- END SIGNATURE ----

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