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Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M
50
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Posted - 2012.01.05 10:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
As in real life it's much more fun to be rich in Eve - you can have more shiny things, take bigger risks with them (why yes I will PvP with my faction fit battleship instead of treating it like a precious treasure and just ship spinning with it). What's more if money is easy to come by then you don't need to do the boring grind stuff (ie. *working*) you can spend more time messing about and having a good time doing fun things (ie. *playing*).
and yet this forum is full of people moaning that it's too easy to make money!
Why is this?
is that because you see the accumulation of isk as the end game and the ability to do that easily spoils it for you, because it *should* be a challenge?
Is it because you have a lot of wealth earned when it was hard to come by and therefore it's irritating to see upstarts getting all the advantages without the effort? or I guess that those advantages are being erroded
or is it that isk isn't quite as easy to come by as this forum makes out and the moaning is from people who perceive others to be making isk hand over fist and are for want of a better word: jealous?
or is there something I am missing?
(and please don't start going on about how mining is some noble profession and is now not viable any more or missioning is not rewarded well - if you *enjoy* mining or repeating missions over and over as you profess then surely its the doing of it and not the rewards you are after)
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Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
353
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
easy isk doesn't result in people being any richer, it only results in prices being higher. |

Ray Intaki
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
As is the case with real life as well:
Everyone always thinks that everyone else has more money than they do. 
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oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
288
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
i provide pvpers shiny killmails with expensive stuff and still they think i shouldn,t earn too much isk We Rabble Because We Care,BC CCP doesn,t seem to care much |

RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1138
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 11:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:easy isk doesn't result in people being any richer, it only results in prices being higher.
This. Just like higher mining yields just depress mineral prices and thus do not increase mining income. And so on and so forth. |

Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M
50
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Florestan Bronstein wrote:easy isk doesn't result in people being any richer, it only results in prices being higher. This. Just like higher mining yields just depress mineral prices and thus do not increase mining income. And so on and so forth.
but the numerical value of the price is not actually relevant - what is is how much effort/time that item required from me which is a (subtly) different thing.
given that we aren't needing to feed or house ourselves with isk then inflation isn't as damaging as it is in real life economies
If people were all complaining that they all have loads of isk but can't afford anything then this might be a problem - but I get the feeling that people are complaining about isk faucets because it seems like people can afford much more |

RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1138
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 11:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Luh Windan wrote: If people were all complaining that they all have loads of isk but can't afford anything then this might be a problem - but I get the feeling that people are complaining about isk faucets because it seems like people can afford much more
Have you seen the PLEX price whines? And prices have risen a fair bit, though without the quarterly economic report it's hard to check a fair bit.
In addition the income inflation is not uniform across the playerbase, it's new high income activities focused in Hisec. |

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1248
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 11:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
1000 people out of 50k can get rich and then can get even richer with no effort whatsoever
Rest doing all the work to scrap by month to month..
Seems it works as intended, considering EVE is an capitalistic world. Whining about high sec missioners, incursion runners is pathetic.. Incursion 100 people can get rich ... high sec missioner non can get rich unless they are 23/7 100 ppl vs 1k vs 48900 .. seems like good ratio for wealth distribution .. those 1k are far more richer than those 100 ppl can even dream of. |

Kelsi Corynn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 11:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:easy isk doesn't result in people being any richer, it only results in prices being higher.
That's been true for some items, but the overall price indexes have remained pretty flat, despite the amount of ISK in the game continuing to increase.
RubyPorto wrote: In addition the income inflation is not uniform across the playerbase, it's new high income activities focused in Hisec.
Much of which in turn ends up in the pockets of alliance leadership via moongoo stranglehold, but the average rank and file nullseccer never sees this income except in the form of ship programs or paid logistics fees, if they're lucky.  |

IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid
80
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Because it makes the game mostly pointless if losses don't hurt.
In 2004 BS were a big deal and losing one hurt, now most people shrug off capital and faction BS losses like they don't matter. |

RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1138
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 11:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kelsi Corynn wrote:Much of which in turn ends up in the pockets of alliance leadership via moongoo stranglehold, but the average rank and file nullseccer never sees this income except in the form of ship programs or paid logistics fees, if they're lucky. 
Moon goo doesn't cause any inflation. It does not produce any isk. |

Kelsi Corynn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: Moon goo doesn't cause any inflation. It does not produce any isk.
Indeed, it simply provides an avenue for ISK to move from those in high sec to those in nullsec, in large quantities. |

Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M
50
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Because it makes the game mostly pointless if losses don't hurt.
In 2004 BS were a big deal and losing one hurt, now most people shrug off capital and faction BS losses like they don't matter.
I don't buy this at all.
I don't PvP because it's going to hurt me - I PvP because it's unpredictable and thrilling, because it's pitting your wits against another human being (and I enjoy fighting smarter people even when I loose than I do the dumb kills).
When I lose a ship it's a lesson to be learned. A challenge to rise to. I couldn't care less about the isk - that's just an annoyance. (and I agree that there should be some inertia - ie. some cost because otherwise it does have less meaning. but that cost doesn't need to be painful) |

RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1138
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 11:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kelsi Corynn wrote:RubyPorto wrote: Moon goo doesn't cause any inflation. It does not produce any isk.
Indeed, it simply provides an avenue for ISK to move from those in high sec to those in nullsec, in large quantities.
Fair enough. Though so do pirate faction Mods, Deadspace mods, officer gear, etc. |

Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
92
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 12:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Luh Windan wrote:but the numerical value of the price is not actually relevant - what is is how much effort/time that item required from me which is a (subtly) different thing. Spot on. It's the subjective value of things that is being decreased through the ease of making isk.
Price inflation hasn't really kept up with this increase as the supply side is distorted by things like bots, which don't care how much (or little) they get in return for their efforts.
Luh Windan wrote:IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Because it makes the game mostly pointless if losses don't hurt. In 2004 BS were a big deal and losing one hurt, now most people shrug off capital and faction BS losses like they don't matter. I don't buy this at all. Candy is right. The very real risk of loss (or achievement) is what makes the eve experience so intense. The less subjective value these things have, the more trivialized and boring the gaming experience gets.
Proof: Look at SiSi. You can have as much pvp as you want at virtually no cost. It's completely boring because it's meaningless and because there is no real risk of losing anything valuable. |

gfldex
254
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Posted - 2012.01.05 12:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
The advantage of a pile of gold is that you can hire poor bastards to do the boring stuff you possibly wouldn't want to do yourself. Like camping some failmercs in station. You better leave that to some other failmercs. Remember, you can't buy friendship. But you wouldn't want to punish your friends with *beep*jobs anyway, would you?
Merry crisis and a happy new fear! |

Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M
50
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Posted - 2012.01.05 12:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote: Candy is right. The very real risk of loss (or achievement) is what makes the eve experience so intense. The less subjective value these things have, the more trivialized and boring the gaming experience gets.
Proof: Look at SiSi. You can have as much pvp as you want at virtually no cost. It's completely boring because it's meaningless and because there is no real risk of losing anything valuable.
You will note that I agreed that there should be *some* cost to a loss so I'm not disputing that.
It should be apparent though if the increased supply of isk has reduced PvP via the various killboards. I wonder if they have graphs of activity over time (would be trivial for them to create from their DBs even if they don't)
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
122
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Posted - 2012.01.05 12:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Luh Windan wrote:As in real life it's much more fun to be rich in Eve - you can have more shiny things, take bigger risks with them (why yes I will PvP with my faction fit battleship instead of treating it like a precious treasure and just ship spinning with it). What's more if money is easy to come by then you don't need to do the boring grind stuff (ie. *working*) you can spend more time messing about and having a good time doing fun things (ie. *playing*).
Not that I disagree with your main point, but I'll just say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with collecting isk for the sake of collecting isk. And so what if I buy a shiny ship just to spin around? Yes, I expect haters to hate. But these idiots are usually the same ones collecting kills. And what does a PVPer do with his precious killboard? Just as in the isk/ship collector's case; absolutely nothing.
So let those that blanket themselves in hate and jealousy do it. Because you will not be able to reason them out of an idea they did not reason themselves in the first place. You'll have more success asking a rock to move.
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Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
92
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 12:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Luh Windan wrote:It should be apparent though if the increased supply of isk has reduced PvP via the various killboards. I wonder if they have graphs of activity over time (would be trivial for them to create from their DBs even if they don't) I think it's safe to assume that the increase in ISK supply is not detrimental to pvp in itself, as less effort is required to replace a ship. People are just switching to more expensive ships. But to keep things interesting at this pace, CCP would have to introduce higher end ships regularly. The better (and actually sustainable) solution is to balance isk faucets/sinks and risk/reward. |

Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M
50
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Posted - 2012.01.05 12:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Not that I disagree with your main point, but I'll just say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with collecting isk for the sake of collecting isk. And so what if I buy a shiny ship just to spin around? Yes, I expect haters to hate. But these idiots are usually the same ones collecting kills. And what does a PVPer do with his precious killboard? Just as in the isk/ship collector's case; absolutely nothing.
So let those that blanket themselves in hate and jealousy do it. Because you will not be able to reason them out of an idea they did not reason themselves in the first place. You'll have more success asking a rock to move.
No - I agree if the collection of isk is your goal then there is indeed nothing wrong with that.
I was genuinely asking the question because people complain about isk incomes as though it is given that it is a give that more isk in the game is bad.
But surely if you are an isk or ship collector then surely the increase of isk makes your goal more of a challenge (because lots more people can attain more of the the things you want) and that, in a game, isn't such a bad thing?
To be clear - certainly not hating people for not thinking like me - am interested in how you see the world more than anything (else how will I learn anything new) |

Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M
50
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Posted - 2012.01.05 12:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:Luh Windan wrote:It should be apparent though if the increased supply of isk has reduced PvP via the various killboards. I wonder if they have graphs of activity over time (would be trivial for them to create from their DBs even if they don't) I think it's safe to assume that the increase in ISK supply is not detrimental to pvp in itself, as less effort is required to replace a ship. People are just switching to more expensive ships. But to keep things interesting at this pace, CCP would have to introduce higher end ships regularly. The better (and actually sustainable) solution is to balance isk faucets/sinks and risk/reward.
So I can see that is a possible risk.
But I refer you to Jimmy Wales and the steak knives problem http://veen.com/jeff/archives/000880.html - it can be very detrimental assuming you can predict the evolution of a complex system (which Eve undoubtedly is) and solving problems before they occur. |

Scortched Merc
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
102
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 12:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
What is considered rich in Eve?
E .-+ ` ' / -+. F Your tears fuel my internet spaceship. |

RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1138
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 12:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Scortched Merc wrote:What is considered rich in Eve?
1 ISK. |

DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
194
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 13:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
OP doesn't understand inflation. Damn nature, you scary! |

Skorpynekomimi
E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector
75
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 13:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
More liquid ISK = harder for newbies = less newbies = less money for ccp.
When attrition of older players < amount of staying newbies, CCP will slowly go out of business. |

Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M
50
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 13:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
DelBoy Trades wrote:OP doesn't understand inflation.
I do understand inflation but I'm yet to be convinced that what is going on is as clear cut as that.
Secondly, while inflation is a very bad thing in a real world economy (because we use our money to stay alive) it is less clear what the impact would be in Eve
but hey. received wisdom :- t's inflation stupid. End of argument - let's not try and understand anything shall we? |

Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M
50
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 13:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:More liquid ISK = harder for newbies = less newbies = less money for ccp.
When attrition of older players < amount of staying newbies, CCP will slowly go out of business.
First cogent point I've seen - and yes you might be right. Hadn't seen it that way and do agree that will be a problem. |

Scortched Merc
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
102
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 14:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
I still want to know what is considered rich in this game...
1bil? 5bil? 10bil? 25bil? How ever much Chirbba has? E .-+ ` ' / -+. F Your tears fuel my internet spaceship. |

Kelsi Corynn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.01.05 15:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scortched Merc wrote:I still want to know what is considered rich in this game...
It's the same as in real life. Anyone with more ISK than you is a sleazy, greedy plutocrat; anyone with less ISK than you is a scummy ratty plebeian. |

RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1141
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 19:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
Scortched Merc wrote:I still want to know what is considered rich in this game...
1bil? 5bil? 10bil? 25bil? How ever much Chirbba has?
1 ISK is considered to be an amount of money greater than most non-Capsuleers will ever see in a lifetime.
One early mission item is, IIRC "A Lot of Money" the agent considers it an easy enough bribe to pay, as it's significantly less than an ISK. |
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