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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
   |
Posted - 2007.06.23 20:38:00 -
[1]
K, I don't know who had that great idea, but it's just absolutely teh suck. For somthing that is supposed to be an "intermediate objective", it takes FAR too long to get down, and FAR too long to repair. All this is doing is taking the game another step towards "BORING!", really. I'm sure those that those who had the pleasure of partaking in shooting/repping the station services will concur.
So CCP, either make it easier to take down and rep back up, or remove this feature altogether. POS wars are boring enough; you've just taken it another step in that direction instead of the opposite.
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WhitePhantom
Gallente
Edenists
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Posted - 2007.06.23 20:41:00 -
[2]
What exactly are you talking about?
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Awox
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
Southern Connection
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Posted - 2007.06.23 20:42:00 -
[3]
OMFG. I logged in 10 seconds ago to make this very same post. Amazing.
Seriously, yes, this would be a much more fun addition if it was something you could achieve in a few minutes rather than a few hours.
ATM it's like:
Group A destroys Group B's services while they are sleeping whilst repairing their own
Group B destroys Group A's services while they are sleeping whilst repairing their own
If it took a few minutes it would make the process more fun!
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AwoxEveUtils (EVELauncher, ShiftWindows, ScratchPad) script for AutoIt scripting language!
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forsight
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.06.23 20:43:00 -
[4]
have to say i agree with you
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Effei Gloom
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.23 20:45:00 -
[5]
with beeing able to shut down cynofields in your home system(capital) you should be able to defend your home properly
still missing : sentryguns at gates and outposts in 0.0
- next minnie Outpost bpc me:5 available in 25 days - |
Awox
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
Southern Connection
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Posted - 2007.06.23 20:50:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Effei Gloom
with beeing able to shut down cynofields in your home system(capital) you should be able to defend your home properly
still missing : sentryguns at gates and outposts in 0.0
I don't think anyone has Cyno Jammers installed yet. Never the less, even with dreads it takes a long time to disable station services.
Don't you agree if this was something that you could do with 10-20 battleships in the course of 20 minutes per service there would be more pewpew? If it didn't take so damn long people wouldn't waste time on it until it was actually needed:
Group A damages the services at Group B's station while they are sleeping.
Group B wake up and repair their services in less than half an hour, get on with their day.
If the system is totally safe why should repairs take so damn long? I know it is more realistic that way but c'mon, does anyone find this new targettable services feature fun?
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AwoxEveUtils (EVELauncher, ShiftWindows, ScratchPad) script for AutoIt scripting language!
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 00:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: WhitePhantom
What exactly are you talking about?
You are aware that you can now shoot the station services (medical, repair, fitting, etc.) from the 0.0 stations and outposts, yes?
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Love Juice
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:30:00 -
[8]
The change is fine. Why should it take you 10 mins to own someones outpost? Get a clue. The time and effort to take down services should be long and time consuming. If you haven't figured it out yet, thats what Eve is. Leave if you don't have the time.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Love Juice
The change is fine. Why should it take you 10 mins to own someones outpost? Get a clue. The time and effort to take down services should be long and time consuming. If you haven't figured it out yet, thats what Eve is. Leave if you don't have the time.
It's not a problem for it to be taken down in 10 minutes if it only takes 10 minutes to put back up. Get a clue, we don't need more boring, long-ass "features" like this, especially since taking down station services was supposed to be an "intermediate objective", something a small roaming gang could perform.
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Zarcan
Caldari
The Tierijev Compact
Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:36:00 -
[10]
I partook in a station attack yesterday. We had about 7-8 BS's, 5-6 BC's. We all attacked cloning, and it took us two hours to get the shield down to 80%.
The problem is not that we dont have time in the long run, its that it takes long enough for the guys you are attacking to realize that they are being attacked, assemble a superior attack force, and break up our attack.
Its ridiculous. I understand that you shouldn't be able to just own the station. But it also should not take capital ships to destroy the shield in a reasonable amount of time. Which was the point of the patch in the first place: make smaller gangs have a slightly larger capability in station takedowns. I dont think we've gotten that.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo |
Badhands
Gallente
Gottland Production Transport Mines
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:41:00 -
[11]
The way I'd like to see this work is thus:
Group A moves into Group B's space, and begins shooting Group B's repair function. 30 minutes later, Group B can't repair their ships... Now they have about 40 minutes to decide if they want to defend themselves, or find themselves one more station function short.
I envision 40 minutes per as a decent time for a mini-siege, and see that as plenty of time to gather a defensive force.
Originally by: Player Guide
Don't expect CONCORD to keep you immune to attacks or ship losses.
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Badhands
Gallente
Gottland Production Transport Mines
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:42:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Badhands on 24/06/2007 01:43:49
Wow triple-post.
Originally by: Player Guide
Don't expect CONCORD to keep you immune to attacks or ship losses.
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Zarcan
Caldari
The Tierijev Compact
Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Badhands
The way I'd like to see this work is thus:
Group A moves into Group B's space, and begins shooting Group B's repair function. 30 minutes later, Group B can't repair their ships... Now they have about 40 minutes to decide if they want to defend themselves, or find themselves one more station function short.
I envision 40 minutes per as a decent time for a mini-siege, and see that as plenty of time to gather a defensive force.
Youve got to be kidding me. 30 minutes? Maybe with a fleet of 20 dreadnoughts...thats the problem.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 01:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Badhands
The way I'd like to see this work is thus:
Group A moves into Group B's space, and begins shooting Group B's repair function. 30 minutes later, Group B can't repair their ships... Now they have about 40 minutes to decide if they want to defend themselves, or find themselves one more station function short.
I envision 40 minutes per as a decent time for a mini-siege, and see that as plenty of time to gather a defensive force.
Anything beyond several hours would be good, at this stage.
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Badhands
Gallente
Gottland Production Transport Mines
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:44:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Badhands on 24/06/2007 01:42:52
Odd double-post.
Originally by: Player Guide
Don't expect CONCORD to keep you immune to attacks or ship losses.
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:44:00 -
[16]
Agreed. It is just as bad as POS warfare. Slow, boring, and way way too long.
RISE Recruitment Thread
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Zarcan
Caldari
The Tierijev Compact
Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Agreed. It is just as bad as POS warfare. Slow, boring, and way way too long.
Yeah, but its still an extremely small step in the right direction.
To the mod who is checking my sig- is that better?
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zarcan
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Agreed. It is just as bad as POS warfare. Slow, boring, and way way too long.
Yeah, but its still an extremely small step in the right direction.
To the mod who is checking my sig- is that better?
Key words here are "extremely small".
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:58:00 -
[19]
CCP get a clue! You are makign the same IDIOTIC mistake that form POS wars. Drop the damm shields HP to 1/4 of what they are!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:58:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Hellaciouss on 24/06/2007 02:00:47
Edited by: Hellaciouss on 24/06/2007 01:57:46
The Station Services HP's are fine, in my opinion. I think it is meant as a "harassment" sort of thing that can be taken down with a small group over the course of a few days. Or an hour with a larger size fleet fitted for short range/high damage. It gives you something to do when you fly 20 jumps to find no one wanting to play, or harassing an enemy station that is 4 jumps away =)
Wait until the system is in full swing before all of you start complaining about it. I think it's good right now, to be honest.
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
Clerence Thomas
Gallente
Black Lotus Heavy Industries
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:58:00 -
[21]
I am of the considered opionion that outpost and tower combat happens way too _fast_... Then again, i'm one of those production types that is podkilled the moment one of the pvps looks at me funny...
-- CT, CEO BLHI
"There are over 500 million fire arms in worldwide circulation. That is one fire arm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is... How do we arm the other eleven?"
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violator2k5
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.24 01:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Agreed. It is just as bad as POS warfare. Slow, boring, and way way too long.
you forgot to mention that pos's are faster to get the shields down to a suitable level :P
as for the guy who said he was there 2 hours before the shield was in 80%. we were dealing with one of the stations services today with more bs and support then that and it took over 2 and 1/2 hrs. the first time i took part in shooting one of the station servers i practically almost fell asleep through shear boredom. i dunno what could fix this other then reducing the shield HP on the services. it is a nice option to have but way to time consuming. It leaves you in one area far to long to have a fleet mobolized to counter your objective and remove you from the system
----------------------------
BOB 4 LIFE NOT JUST 4 A DAY
----------------------------
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Nimitz Alexander
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.24 02:00:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Nimitz Alexander on 24/06/2007 01:59:29
they are destroyable. We had fun today playing with a FIX outpost, then playing with a nice carrier that showed up to repair it 
Edit:
To the one who attacked cloning, I believe it was stated by dev that it had the higest hp. Different services that range from oncient to critical have differnt stats
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.06.24 02:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hellaciouss
The Station Services HP's are fine, in my opinion. I think it is meant as a "harassment" sort of thing that can be taken down with a small group over the course of a few days. Or an hour with a larger size fleet fitted for short range/high damage.
That's silly. Would you really stick around for a few days with your roaming gang, or would you just keep roaming instead? I know what I would do.
Besides, all the ammo that gets wasted shooting at them... dear god.
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Zarcan
Caldari
The Tierijev Compact
Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.06.24 02:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: violator2k5
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Agreed. It is just as bad as POS warfare. Slow, boring, and way way too long.
you forgot to mention that pos's are faster to get the shields down to a suitable level :P
as for the guy who said he was there 2 hours before the shield was in 80%. we were dealing with one of the stations services today with more bs and support then that and it took over 2 and 1/2 hrs. the first time i took part in shooting one of the station servers i practically almost fell asleep through shear boredom. i dunno what could fix this other then reducing the shield HP on the services. it is a nice option to have but way to time consuming. It leaves you in one area far to long to have a fleet mobolized to counter your objective and remove you from the system
I agree.
Incidentally, we were taking down a station of yours =)
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Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.24 02:03:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
The Station Services HP's are fine, in my opinion. I think it is meant as a "harassment" sort of thing that can be taken down with a small group over the course of a few days. Or an hour with a larger size fleet fitted for short range/high damage.
That's silly. Would you really stick around for a few days with your roaming gang, or would you just keep roaming instead? I know what I would do.
Besides, all the ammo that gets wasted shooting at them... dear god.
Re-read my edit.
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
The Station Services HP's are fine, in my opinion. I think it is meant as a "harassment" sort of thing that can be taken down with a small group over the course of a few days. Or an hour with a larger size fleet fitted for short range/high damage.
That's silly. Would you really stick around for a few days with your roaming gang, or would you just keep roaming instead? I know what I would do.
Besides, all the ammo that gets wasted shooting at them... dear god.
Re-read my edit.
Even if I got 20 jumps and find no one to fight, I'm not sticking around to get bored to tears for several hours to basically just annoy the ooposition a little. I'm going to do 20 jumps to another location instead.
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Zarcan
Caldari
The Tierijev Compact
Prime Orbital Systems
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: ghosttr
I think its fine as it is. A gang should not be able to come into your space when 90% of your combat pilots are offline (we do have timezones, and people do have a rl ya know ) and disable your station services. And I think thats what the op is looking for.
You were one of those kids that made up rules in games as you went along so you couldnt lose, weren't you?
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Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.24 02:12:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
The Station Services HP's are fine, in my opinion. I think it is meant as a "harassment" sort of thing that can be taken down with a small group over the course of a few days. Or an hour with a larger size fleet fitted for short range/high damage.
That's silly. Would you really stick around for a few days with your roaming gang, or would you just keep roaming instead? I know what I would do.
Besides, all the ammo that gets wasted shooting at them... dear god.
Re-read my edit.
Even if I got 20 jumps and find no one to fight, I'm not sticking around to get bored to tears for several hours to basically just annoy the ooposition a little. I'm going to do 20 jumps to another location instead.
Well then don't! Heh. No one said you have to kill the services. Move on! Find your PEWPEW else where.
We attacked a FIX station's service's today and when they brought a carrier out to rep it we got together and took out the carrier.
If it only took 10 minutes to take a service out with a small gang it would be pointless really to have them. Seriously, taking out a stations ability to fit ships, replace clones, repair, and reprocess in 40 minutes with a couple of BS's? I don't think so...
So you can either pick off the shields with a small gang over the course of a few days or you can get a decent sized BS fleet and do one an hour or so...or you can move on and find pewpew elsewhere =D
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: ghosttr
I think its fine as it is. A gang should not be able to come into your space when 90% of your combat pilots are offline (we do have timezones, and people do have a rl ya know) and disable your station services. And I think thats what the op is looking for.
Hum... that's already what is happening. Basically, your enemies come during your weak time and blow your services up, and you get to spend several hours bringing them back up when your peak time arrives, while going to own the enemy's services during is weak time.
All I'm saying is that if this is going to be the case, might as well make it not take forever to take down/bring back up the services. Or you know, just get rid of this feature.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:16:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
The Station Services HP's are fine, in my opinion. I think it is meant as a "harassment" sort of thing that can be taken down with a small group over the course of a few days. Or an hour with a larger size fleet fitted for short range/high damage.
That's silly. Would you really stick around for a few days with your roaming gang, or would you just keep roaming instead? I know what I would do.
Besides, all the ammo that gets wasted shooting at them... dear god.
Re-read my edit.
Even if I got 20 jumps and find no one to fight, I'm not sticking around to get bored to tears for several hours to basically just annoy the ooposition a little. I'm going to do 20 jumps to another location instead.
Well then don't! Heh. No one said you have to kill the services. Move on! Find your PEWPEW else where.
We attacked a FIX station's service's today and when they brought a carrier out to rep it we got together and took out the carrier.
If it only took 10 minutes to take a service out with a small gang it would be pointless really to have them. Seriously, taking out a stations ability to fit ships, replace clones, repair, and reprocess in 40 minutes with a couple of BS's? I don't think so...
So you can either pick off the shields with a small gang over the course of a few days or you can get a decent sized BS fleet and do one an hour or so...or you can move on and find pewpew elsewhere =D
Sorry to say this, but you got lucky. Not to criticise FIX, but the way to deal with this it to wait until you're damn sure no one is around, THEN fix the services with MANY carriers, while sitting in docking range or aligned at a POS in case enemies do come back.
We shot at a Goon station today, and boy, was that ever a bore, and no pew pew came of it (not while I was there anyways).
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LUH 3471
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Posted - 2007.06.24 02:18:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
K, I don't know who had that great idea, but it's just absolutely teh suck. For somthing that is supposed to be an "intermediate objective", it takes FAR too long to get down, and FAR too long to repair. All this is doing is taking the game another step towards "BORING!", really. I'm sure those that those who had the pleasure of partaking in shooting/repping the station services will concur.
So CCP, either make it easier to take down and rep back up, or remove this feature altogether. POS wars are boring enough; you've just taken it another step in that direction instead of the opposite.
qft
ccp u wanted to remove boring things from game then u develope something like this
i call this cognetive dissonance
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Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:21:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
The Station Services HP's are fine, in my opinion. I think it is meant as a "harassment" sort of thing that can be taken down with a small group over the course of a few days. Or an hour with a larger size fleet fitted for short range/high damage.
That's silly. Would you really stick around for a few days with your roaming gang, or would you just keep roaming instead? I know what I would do.
Besides, all the ammo that gets wasted shooting at them... dear god.
Re-read my edit.
Even if I got 20 jumps and find no one to fight, I'm not sticking around to get bored to tears for several hours to basically just annoy the ooposition a little. I'm going to do 20 jumps to another location instead.
Well then don't! Heh. No one said you have to kill the services. Move on! Find your PEWPEW else where.
We attacked a FIX station's service's today and when they brought a carrier out to rep it we got together and took out the carrier.
If it only took 10 minutes to take a service out with a small gang it would be pointless really to have them. Seriously, taking out a stations ability to fit ships, replace clones, repair, and reprocess in 40 minutes with a couple of BS's? I don't think so...
So you can either pick off the shields with a small gang over the course of a few days or you can get a decent sized BS fleet and do one an hour or so...or you can move on and find pewpew elsewhere =D
Sorry to say this, but you got lucky. Not to criticise FIX, but the way to deal with this it to wait until you're damn sure no one is around, THEN fix the services with MANY carriers, while sitting in docking range or aligned at a POS in case enemies do come back.
We shot at a Goon station today, and boy, was that ever a bore, and no pew pew came of it (not while I was there anyways).
Lucky? Heh, we're 4 jumps away. And actually the Carrier was repping a POS, my bad. =)
Anyway. We were there a couple days ago shooting at the outpost and BoB brought in a Titan to scare us away. So don't underestimate what may be put together to come defend. It takes time to get people together and logistics out. It shouldn't take just a couple minutes to cripple a station, sorry =\
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
The Station Services HP's are fine, in my opinion. I think it is meant as a "harassment" sort of thing that can be taken down with a small group over the course of a few days. Or an hour with a larger size fleet fitted for short range/high damage.
That's silly. Would you really stick around for a few days with your roaming gang, or would you just keep roaming instead? I know what I would do.
Besides, all the ammo that gets wasted shooting at them... dear god.
Re-read my edit.
Even if I got 20 jumps and find no one to fight, I'm not sticking around to get bored to tears for several hours to basically just annoy the ooposition a little. I'm going to do 20 jumps to another location instead.
Well then don't! Heh. No one said you have to kill the services. Move on! Find your PEWPEW else where.
We attacked a FIX station's service's today and when they brought a carrier out to rep it we got together and took out the carrier.
If it only took 10 minutes to take a service out with a small gang it would be pointless really to have them. Seriously, taking out a stations ability to fit ships, replace clones, repair, and reprocess in 40 minutes with a couple of BS's? I don't think so...
So you can either pick off the shields with a small gang over the course of a few days or you can get a decent sized BS fleet and do one an hour or so...or you can move on and find pewpew elsewhere =D
Sorry to say this, but you got lucky. Not to criticise FIX, but the way to deal with this it to wait until you're damn sure no one is around, THEN fix the services with MANY carriers, while sitting in docking range or aligned at a POS in case enemies do come back.
We shot at a Goon station today, and boy, was that ever a bore, and no pew pew came of it (not while I was there anyways).
Lucky? Heh, we're 4 jumps away. And actually the Carrier was repping a POS, my bad. =)
Anyway. We were there a couple days ago shooting at the outpost and BoB brought in a Titan to scare us away. So don't underestimate what may be put together to come defend. It takes time to get people together and logistics out. It shouldn't take just a couple minutes to cripple a station, sorry =\
My point is: is crippling a station quickly all that bad if it doesn't take long to bring it back up? I agree that taking it down quickly while keeping the current time for fixing it would be silly, but if it's 1:1 for time spent taking down/bringing back up?
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Nimitz Alexander
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.24 02:25:00 -
[35]
yes we can now actually do somethign useful during our conga lines in 49
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.24 02:27:00 -
[36]
I'd like to see them take an hour or so with 15 BSs. Thats a true intermediate objective; not something for a handful of vagas in the dead of night to harass.
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.24 02:27:00 -
[37]
I'd like to see them take an hour or so with 15 BSs. Thats a true intermediate objective; not something for a handful of vagas in the dead of night to harass.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Elmicker
I'd like to see them take an hour or so with 15 BSs. Thats a true intermediate objective; not something for a handful of vagas in the dead of night to harass.
At this point, I'd take anything over what we currently have.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:29:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Elmicker
I'd like to see them take an hour or so with 15 BSs. Thats a true intermediate objective; not something for a handful of vagas in the dead of night to harass.
At this point, I'd take anything over what we currently have.
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Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:31:00 -
[40]
Ending the Quotathon!
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
My point is: is crippling a station quickly all that bad if it doesn't take long to bring it back up? I agree that taking it down quickly while keeping the current time for fixing it would be silly, but if it's 1:1 for time spent taking down/bringing back up?
Yes. It takes a lot of money and time to get an outpost up, why should it be crippled so quickly? If you don't want to take the time and take the services out, then don't.
Plus, you don't need dreads and carriers to take down a service, seeing as their is no guns shooting at you, so it should take a bit of time.
If you can do it so quickly, you don't give the enemy a chance to get together and defend if you're out of there in 30 minutes. Our fleet today took down cloning in about an hour, and cloning has the most HP I believe.
You shouldn't be crippling a station with a few BS's, a couple of cruisers, and a handful of frigates in a half hour.
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:31:00 -
[41]
Ending the Quotathon!
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
My point is: is crippling a station quickly all that bad if it doesn't take long to bring it back up? I agree that taking it down quickly while keeping the current time for fixing it would be silly, but if it's 1:1 for time spent taking down/bringing back up?
Yes. It takes a lot of money and time to get an outpost up, why should it be crippled so quickly? If you don't want to take the time and take the services out, then don't.
Plus, you don't need dreads and carriers to take down a service, seeing as their is no guns shooting at you, so it should take a bit of time.
If you can do it so quickly, you don't give the enemy a chance to get together and defend if you're out of there in 30 minutes. Our fleet today took down cloning in about an hour, and cloning has the most HP I believe.
You shouldn't be crippling a station with a few BS's, a couple of cruisers, and a handful of frigates in a half hour.
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:39:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Yes. It takes a lot of money and time to get an outpost up, why should it be crippled so quickly?
Why the hell not? If it takes the same ratio of taking down/fixing up that we have now, I don't see the problem with it. It's not like fixing the services costs money.
Originally by: Hellaciouss
If you don't want to take the time and take the services out, then don't.
Basically, as it stands, taking the services is a huge, pretty much pointless borefest. It doesn't really force PvP, and it doesn't give you something to do quickly while out roaming (unless you prefer wasting an hour with a big fleet instead of doing something fun... like more roaming).
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Plus, you don't need dreads and carriers to take down a service, seeing as their is no guns shooting at you, so it should take a bit of time.
That's not the point: the point is that it's BORING, and this game doesn't need more boring stuff.
Originally by: Hellaciouss
If you can do it so quickly, you don't give the enemy a chance to get together and defend if you're out of there in 30 minutes. Our fleet today took down cloning in about an hour, and cloning has the most HP I believe.
30 minutes is pretty damned slow to put a fleet together, if you ask me. And how many ships did you have to take down that service in one hour?
Originally by: Hellaciouss
You shouldn't be crippling a station with a few BS's, a couple of cruisers, and a handful of frigates in a half hour.
Again, why not?
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Kaimon ValDreth
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Posted - 2007.06.24 02:53:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Kaimon ValDreth on 24/06/2007 02:54:35
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Yes. It takes a lot of money and time to get an outpost up, why should it be crippled so quickly? If you don't want to take the time and take the services out, then don't.
You shouldn't be crippling a station with a few BS's, a couple of cruisers, and a handful of frigates in a half hour.
While I have to agree with him on this one. The cost of the average station is what 25 to 30 billion? (im not familier with it)
Why would a roving gang be able to knock out features of an object of that size so easily? Yes I think it should take some capital ships laying siege to these to take them out in the time you are wanting to drop them.
However that being said, it should take just as long to repair them. If you bring in capital ships to do the massive dmg they are known for then you drop the station features, it should take an equal amount of capital repair ships to bring it back up. Do enough dmg to knock the services out for 4 or 5 days then keep checking back to leave the owner in constant fear of attack while they try to repair a little at a time. Something like a blockade maybe
I think this the bigger picture here starting to get to the devs of this game is that you try to create a unique type of game play for everyone to keep them all happy. Many people rove around in their small gangs of 10 to 20 people and want to be effective against their war targets.
However you have the alliance fleet ops that consist of couple hundred to 1500 pilots going out looking for a war and come with so much force that you dont want to see some object (station, pos, or such) get lost is 5 min, because you dumbed down the HP/Shield/or general defenses of structures to give the roving 10-20 man gangs usefulness.
The solution to this.... I have no clue, and I think the devs are trying their hardest to figure out a way to keep everything useful. All they can do is test their ideas and figure out which ones work and which dont. Its just a step down the path to a better eve, even if this step is sideways.
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Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 02:54:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Hellaciouss on 24/06/2007 02:58:11
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Yes. It takes a lot of money and time to get an outpost up, why should it be crippled so quickly?
Why the hell not? If it takes the same ratio of taking down/fixing up that we have now, I don't see the problem with it. It's not like fixing the services costs money.
Originally by: Hellaciouss
If you don't want to take the time and take the services out, then don't.
Basically, as it stands, taking the services is a huge, pretty much pointless borefest. It doesn't really force PvP, and it doesn't give you something to do quickly while out roaming (unless you prefer wasting an hour with a big fleet instead of doing something fun... like more roaming).
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Plus, you don't need dreads and carriers to take down a service, seeing as their is no guns shooting at you, so it should take a bit of time.
That's not the point: the point is that it's BORING, and this game doesn't need more boring stuff.
Originally by: Hellaciouss
If you can do it so quickly, you don't give the enemy a chance to get together and defend if you're out of there in 30 minutes. Our fleet today took down cloning in about an hour, and cloning has the most HP I believe.
30 minutes is pretty damned slow to put a fleet together, if you ask me. And how many ships did you have to take down that service in one hour?
Originally by: Hellaciouss
You shouldn't be crippling a station with a few BS's, a couple of cruisers, and a handful of frigates in a half hour.
Again, why not?
Because they are more then just something to gank. If you want to gank, continue on your roaming path and find some ratters.
It is not pointless, especially when you live 4 systems over. It slows them down. It keeps them from attacking you since when you kill them they can't just pop back into that station, fit another ship, and be at you.
It is a strategical target. If they can't clone, fit, or repair ships, that means it takes them longer to get back into the fleet fight, which could very well mean a victory for you on the field of battle.
It can aid in the capture of the system immensely.
People haven't realized the importance in them yet, as they have JUST COME OUT. Give people time to realize that letting those services get destoyed is extremely costly in a big war situation and I can promise you they won't just let you kill them.
Lowering their HP means you can be in an out of the system in 30 minutes while having the station completely crippled with a small fleet. Or taking them out with a large fleet in 5 minutes and camping it, preventing them from doing anything in that system, which guess what? It's not solving your "boring" problems. Now they know if they die they don't get to make another clone in that system, so guess what? No one is coming out to play anyway.
It seems all you're looking for is another thing to gank. These services aren't meant to be "ganked". They are supposed to take time to kill, as well as time to repair. Making them have little HP means they are even less important, cause hey, you can just repair it in 5 minutes when they leave, why bother, amiright?
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 03:01:00 -
[45]
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
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Kaimon ValDreth
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Posted - 2007.06.24 03:06:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
I completely agree with you, the take down and repair time should be equal, I dont agree with this option being for small gangs. Taking out the ability of a station to clone is a pretty big deal thats a big object with a lot of hp, and its primary feature at least that most use it for is cloning, remove that and its worthless when at war. Hey they are at war how funny lets drop their cloning on the way by and they will never know it was us... and or be able to stop us in time we will be gone before they can assemble.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 03:08:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
I completely agree with you, the take down and repair time should be equal, I dont agree with this option being for small gangs. Taking out the ability of a station to clone is a pretty big deal thats a big object with a lot of hp, and its primary feature at least that most use it for is cloning, remove that and its worthless when at war. Hey they are at war how funny lets drop their cloning on the way by and they will never know it was us... and or be able to stop us in time we will be gone before they can assemble.
Then I would prefer they just get rid of this, as I really don't need another bore-a-thon. POS warfare gives me enough of that, thank you.
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Orange Species
Minmatar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.24 03:10:00 -
[48]
its awesome, gets you fights :D
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Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 03:10:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
What exactly do you consider a "small gang"? A few gank set-up hacs? 
So a few ganking hacs should be able to cripple a station? What part of "making them have less HP makes them even less important to defend" don't you get?
Leaving this thread, good luck convincing others, cause you definitely ain't convincing me that they should have less HP.
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 03:15:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
Its fine at it is.
Taking out station services is intended to be a part of pos warfare. Not some way for a small gang to come into your outpost system when you only have a very small amount of players online, gank your facilities and run.
Its made so that an attacking enemy can reduce the effectiveness of its enemy. So its not just about taking down the poses, its also about taking down your enemys ability to replenish it ability to counterattack.
Its supposed to be for pos warfare, and it should only be used if you are planning on taking the system. Not for annoying your enemies while they are all at work/sleeping.
To address the issue of the time it takes to repair. The modules should be given a recharge rate. So you wont have to have a bunch of triage carriers out repping the damn thing everytime some pests decide to come take pot shots at it. The only time you should have to rep it is when it hits armor, or goes offline. And that means your enemy would hvae to dedicate a deacent sized force to attempt to take it down.
Also I believe this is why outpost should have guns after a certain level of soverignty. So that a small gang attempting to gank your services would have trouble with the guns, while a large gang would be able to take out the guns.
Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking |
ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 03:15:00 -
[51]
Edited by: ghosttr on 24/06/2007 03:16:13
Edit: double post, Having problems with eve website
Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 03:24:00 -
[52]
Well, all I've got to say to that is that's an epic fail as to the original intent, and that is one step further on the boredom scale. Personaly, I don't understand how anyone can be for that, but *shrugs*.
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HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
R i s e
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 03:52:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
make it easier to take down and rep back up, or remove this feature altogether. POS wars are boring enough; you've just taken it another step in that direction instead of the opposite.
QFMFT
"wow.... remote repping the hours away is sure a blast!"
meh...
"flying 20 jumps to shoot someones stationary station services for hours sure is fun!"
erm? ...
--------------
First and foremost, I think this is one of the best ideas CCP has had in awhile.
Unfortunately, it has been implemented rather poorly.
I see two obvious reasons for this feature:
#1 is to goad ppl into actually defending their stations (good thing) instead of hiding inside them.
#2 it gives a gang a way to give their enemy a shot in the gut when they would rather hide in their stations vs defend their space (good thing)
Now the sad part: Majority of the time, neither of the above is going to happen with these current HP values. All we are going to see from this is EITHER more of the blob OR a cat and mouse game between different groups' peak hours.
I think we can all agree, laying siege to someones station services should not be as involved as sieging a pos. Currently the HP involved are just ridiculous and way too similar to pos warfare (as Deshenus and many others have noticed).
I'm not suggesting it should be an easy 5 minute task. However, taking out (or repairing) a service should be something a medium sized gang can handle within 30-45minutes (and without capital support).
I would say the HP values need to be a fraction of what they are. Sieging station services should not be something that involves hours on either the offensive or defensive side.
The failed scenario: Lets say you and 10-15 buddies head into an enemies space and they all hide. Perfect! This sounds like an excellent opportunity to knock down their fitting services for being too coward to come out and fight! WRONG. Well, not unless you have 4 hours to waste, a hauler w/ some ammo (or you feel like calling in dread support for what WAS a small roaming gang)
What happened to the 'small gang' option CCP was bragging about?
Question: Ultimately, what comes of it when you head to your enemies space in their off hours to siege their station (and they do the same to you) with the current layout?
Answer:Everyone spends way too much of their gaming time at the station.
I thought we were trying to BREAK UP THE BLOB, not foster it.  Do we want to put so much focus on fighting at the station?
It doesn't matter who's shoes your in. Defending it, shooting it, repairing it, it doesn't matter... it is all equally proportional in time spent.
Not to be 'that guy' but I would like to hear at least a little CCP feedback on why they felt the current HP numbers were appropriate.
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 03:56:00 -
[54]
All I have to say is I was under the impression that small gangs were being given an objective with this patch. As far as I can tell...the only thing it has given small gangs is another reason to band together and become a huge blob - small gangs can not destroy station services.
50+ people is not a small gang btw
And to the people who think it would be stupid for a small gang to be able to take down a service -> you gotta realise even if a 20 BS gang could take down a service in 30 minutes, that's 30 minutes your side can see exactly what the enemy is doing. In fact, you know exactly where they are as well! Hell, you even have ALL OF YOUR SHIPS TO CHOOSE FROM in order to counter that enemy gang that is sitting still outside your station.
Even if a hostile gang of 100+ ships came to blow up your station services it's not like they can force you to undock if you're not in a position to counter their force. Then again a 100 man gang going into your system is no different today than a 100 man gang going into your system prior to Rev 2.
---
Put in space whales!
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Farham
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.06.24 03:58:00 -
[55]
I find it interesting to see who is complaining.
You chose your current locations knowing they are hot beds.
It is fine as is.
Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and All Around Major Idiot |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 04:04:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Farham
I find it interesting to see who is complaining.
You chose your current locations knowing they are hot beds.
It is fine as is.
That's pretty pathetic on your part. Neither ZS nor DB have come under station service attack so far, so no, this isn't just because I've been on the recieving end. We'll see how you feel about this when your own station in the drone regions falls under attack.
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Farham
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.06.24 04:09:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Farham on 24/06/2007 04:08:09
Your statement suggests it hasn't.
Which would be an incorrect assumption.
But I am sympathetic to your plight about your own stations not being attacked.
Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and All Around Major Idiot |
Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 04:32:00 -
[58]
Absolutely signed.
Hitpoints should be way lower.
---
WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
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pershphanie
Generals Of Destruction Syndicate
Terror In The System
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Posted - 2007.06.24 04:37:00 -
[59]
Edited by: pershphanie on 24/06/2007 04:36:00
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
K, I don't know who had that great idea, but it's just absolutely teh suck. For somthing that is supposed to be an "intermediate objective", it takes FAR too long to get down, and FAR too long to repair. All this is doing is taking the game another step towards "BORING!", really. I'm sure those that those who had the pleasure of partaking in shooting/repping the station services will concur.
So CCP, either make it easier to take down and rep back up, or remove this feature altogether. POS wars are boring enough; you've just taken it another step in that direction instead of the opposite.
rabble! rabble rabble!
/signed. if you cant shoot the outside of a station how the hell do you figure that your bullets that are deflected by the station shields magically can shoot stuff inside the station?
Facts to prove my point:
1) its lame
2) who ever thought that makes sense must come to work on the special bus
3) its stupid
-----------------Persh---------------------
--------= Two In The Shirt =----------- |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 04:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: pershphanie
Facts to prove my point:
1) its lame
2) who ever thought that makes sense must come to work on the special bus
3) its stupid
Can't stop laughing  omg *wipes away tear*
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Conman
CONMAN Enterprise
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Posted - 2007.06.24 04:44:00 -
[61]
AN OUTPOST COST AN INSANE AMOUNT OF ISK THIS IS ONE OF THE WORST POST MADE IN EVE HISTORY AND ANYONE WHO HASNT ACTUALLY TRIED AND IS GIVING ME THIS THOERY CRAP STOP IT.
Now that we got that out of the way, It is a seige with no sentries and you can hurt the enemy operations while they are sleeping if you can not get a big enough gang to take it out then do not do it and quit whining because you lack the will of the warrior to finish the fight go back to halo if you want a quick fix this is eve no fps with f1 keys.
I am drunken irish slave hahaha i live
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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 04:48:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
All I have to say is I was under the impression that small gangs were being given an objective with this patch. As far as I can tell...the only thing it has given small gangs is another reason to band together and become a huge blob - small gangs can not destroy station services.
50+ people is not a small gang btw
And to the people who think it would be stupid for a small gang to be able to take down a service -> you gotta realise even if a 20 BS gang could take down a service in 30 minutes, that's 30 minutes your side can see exactly what the enemy is doing. In fact, you know exactly where they are as well! Hell, you even have ALL OF YOUR SHIPS TO CHOOSE FROM in order to counter that enemy gang that is sitting still outside your station.
Even if a hostile gang of 100+ ships came to blow up your station services it's not like they can force you to undock if you're not in a position to counter their force. Then again a 100 man gang going into your system is no different today than a 100 man gang going into your system prior to Rev 2.
QFT!
It should take more effort than that, it is fine as it is. The reason being that people do play in different timezones and have a real life every alliance thats out there has a time of day when the majority of their players are off. So to disable station services all the attacking gang would have to do is come at the time when enemy forces are lowest and gank whatever service they can & leave.
Also even if you do have enough forces to counter their attack you are at a major disadvantage. If you are undocking into an enemy gang you are going to suffer heavy losses, there no way around it. Even if you can muster a superior force.
Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 04:49:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Conman
AN OUTPOST COST AN INSANE AMOUNT OF ISK THIS IS ONE OF THE WORST POST MADE IN EVE HISTORY AND ANYONE WHO HASNT ACTUALLY TRIED AND IS GIVING ME THIS THOERY CRAP STOP IT.
Now that we got that out of the way, It is a seige with no sentries and you can hurt the enemy operations while they are sleeping if you can not get a big enough gang to take it out then do not do it and quit whining because you lack the will of the warrior to finish the fight go back to halo if you want a quick fix this is eve no fps with f1 keys.
NO YOUR POST IS BY FAR ONE OF THE WORST IN EVE-O HISTORY AND YES I'VE TRIED IT AND IT SUCKS AND THE FACT THAT OUTPOSTS COST BILLIONS REALLY DOESN'T ******* MATTER SINCE THE SERVICES AREN'T ACTUALLY DESTROYED. BTW CAPS LOCK ISN'T CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL. NOW PUT THE BOTTLE DOWN AND GO TO BED.
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Lao Xu
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Posted - 2007.06.24 04:54:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
What exactly do you consider a "small gang"? A few gank set-up hacs?
So a few ganking hacs should be able to cripple a station? What part of "making them have less HP makes them even less important to defend" don't you get?
Leaving this thread, good luck convincing others, cause you definitely ain't convincing me that they should have less HP.
The point is drastically escaping you, as you refuse to look beyond the tradional EVE blob format to the changes that are attempting to be implemented.
The point, put simply, is guerrilla warfare. The very temporary "knocking out" of a stations services by a surgical strike to a station vital to local defenders is a method of conduction efficient warfare that doesnt revolve around gross numbers of ships crashing the server. It requires at least token defense of these indomitable structures that so far have served only to help establish complete and permanent dominance over a system. If we want to "get real", these defensive/logistical stations would also be liabilities to be protected.
Take as further evidence the "anti-blob" measures taken in introducing bombs, no secret is made that these are intended to help deflect the tendency to simply have 2 massive entrenched forces mindlessly duke it out in extended campaigns.
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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 04:59:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Lao Xu
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
What exactly do you consider a "small gang"? A few gank set-up hacs?
So a few ganking hacs should be able to cripple a station? What part of "making them have less HP makes them even less important to defend" don't you get?
Leaving this thread, good luck convincing others, cause you definitely ain't convincing me that they should have less HP.
The point is drastically escaping you, as you refuse to look beyond the tradional EVE blob format to the changes that are attempting to be implemented.
The point, put simply, is guerrilla warfare. The very temporary "knocking out" of a stations services by a surgical strike to a station vital to local defenders is a method of conduction efficient warfare that doesnt revolve around gross numbers of ships crashing the server. It requires at least token defense of these indomitable structures that so far have served only to help establish complete and permanent dominance over a system. If we want to "get real", these defensive/logistical stations would also be liabilities to be protected.
Take as further evidence the "anti-blob" measures taken in introducing bombs, no secret is made that these are intended to help deflect the tendency to simply have 2 massive entrenched forces mindlessly duke it out in extended campaigns.
But that doesnt mean that you should be able to come into system when we have the least amount of people, and gank our services quickly & easily with a small gang. The thing about a game this big is that people play on different timezones, what may be primetime for you may be 4am for you enemies.
Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 05:03:00 -
[66]
Originally by: ghosttr
Originally by: Lao Xu
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
What exactly do you consider a "small gang"? A few gank set-up hacs?
So a few ganking hacs should be able to cripple a station? What part of "making them have less HP makes them even less important to defend" don't you get?
Leaving this thread, good luck convincing others, cause you definitely ain't convincing me that they should have less HP.
The point is drastically escaping you, as you refuse to look beyond the tradional EVE blob format to the changes that are attempting to be implemented.
The point, put simply, is guerrilla warfare. The very temporary "knocking out" of a stations services by a surgical strike to a station vital to local defenders is a method of conduction efficient warfare that doesnt revolve around gross numbers of ships crashing the server. It requires at least token defense of these indomitable structures that so far have served only to help establish complete and permanent dominance over a system. If we want to "get real", these defensive/logistical stations would also be liabilities to be protected.
Take as further evidence the "anti-blob" measures taken in introducing bombs, no secret is made that these are intended to help deflect the tendency to simply have 2 massive entrenched forces mindlessly duke it out in extended campaigns.
But that doesnt mean that you should be able to come into system when we have the least amount of people, and gank our services quickly & easily with a small gang. The thing about a game this big is that people play on different timezones, what may be primetime for you may be 4am for you enemies.
The primetime issue is rather irrelevant, tbh, as I've pointed out before. Reason being that people already take advantage of their opponent's weaker times to knock POSes into reinforced and shoot at the station services. The fact that it takes SOOOOOO damn long to knock out the station services only encourages blobing and using capitals, EXACTLY what this was supposed NOT to encourage.
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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 05:09:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: ghosttr
Originally by: Lao Xu
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
What exactly do you consider a "small gang"? A few gank set-up hacs?
So a few ganking hacs should be able to cripple a station? What part of "making them have less HP makes them even less important to defend" don't you get?
Leaving this thread, good luck convincing others, cause you definitely ain't convincing me that they should have less HP.
The point is drastically escaping you, as you refuse to look beyond the tradional EVE blob format to the changes that are attempting to be implemented.
The point, put simply, is guerrilla warfare. The very temporary "knocking out" of a stations services by a surgical strike to a station vital to local defenders is a method of conduction efficient warfare that doesnt revolve around gross numbers of ships crashing the server. It requires at least token defense of these indomitable structures that so far have served only to help establish complete and permanent dominance over a system. If we want to "get real", these defensive/logistical stations would also be liabilities to be protected.
Take as further evidence the "anti-blob" measures taken in introducing bombs, no secret is made that these are intended to help deflect the tendency to simply have 2 massive entrenched forces mindlessly duke it out in extended campaigns.
But that doesnt mean that you should be able to come into system when we have the least amount of people, and gank our services quickly & easily with a small gang. The thing about a game this big is that people play on different timezones, what may be primetime for you may be 4am for you enemies.
The primetime issue is rather irrelevant, tbh, as I've pointed out before. Reason being that people already take advantage of their opponent's weaker times to knock POSes into reinforced and shoot at the station services. The fact that it takes SOOOOOO damn long to knock out the station services only encourages blobing and using capitals, EXACTLY what this was supposed NOT to encourage.
It should take a deacent sized force to take it out in any acceptable timeframe. If you have say a fleet with around 20bs which is not a blob. You should be able to manage to get it in 30-45 minutes.
A gang of anything smaller should take longer, there should be time for reinforcements to come in from elsewhere and deal with the threat, not just a hit+run service gank.
Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking |
Riley Craven
Caldari
Copacetic Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 05:25:00 -
[68]
Just want to add my two cents...
POS cost money (some cost large sums 1-2bill) In this patch CCP made sure to include a role in POS warfare for small gangs to deter blob warfare more.
The same logic should be applied to outposts.
Now with that being said lets address the cost and the time issue.
Outposts costs in the range of 20-30bill and require massive logistics to set up.
POS costs in the range of a 100mill-2bill and still take a good bit of logistics to setup AND maintain. POS structures can be blown up and the investment destroyed. Outposts are a PERMANENT feature of the game that will remain FOREVER.
Here is my point. The cost issue is valid, however the arguement that it should take as much firepower as it does to take services out currently is not a valid way to apply the cost issue. The cost of the outpost is the benefit that it last forever, not in its station services.
Thus station services HP should be reduced to facilate smaller gangs and less grind...
I think we can all agree that Eve has become a massive grind fest in all areas of gameplay as of late and unless CCP address the issue and quickly it will cost them dearly.
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Qolde
Minmatar
Guardian Heroes Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 06:05:00 -
[69]
Let's make sure everyone is on the same page first. I hear differences in what people consider "small gang". I also hear differences in what people consider "long time".
I for one, consider 10 frigates or less a small gang, so, in my perspective, a small gang should definitely not be able to destroy your cloning facility in 1 hour.
I personally think that a fleet of 15 tier 3 battleships with tech 1 weapons and ammo should be able to take out any one system service except cloning and maybe fitting in the time span of 1 hour. This is by no means "crippling" a station. It's definitely long enough for any station owning alliance to form a counter fleet, and if you dont have 10 battleships online in your alliance at any given time, then perhaps you don't deserve to own a station.
The short time promotes a more fluid 0.0 political situation, which is good.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Zarcan
Caldari
The Tierijev Compact
Prime Orbital Systems
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 06:31:00 -
[70]
Originally by: ghosttr
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: ghosttr
Originally by: Lao Xu
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
What exactly do you consider a "small gang"? A few gank set-up hacs?
So a few ganking hacs should be able to cripple a station? What part of "making them have less HP makes them even less important to defend" don't you get?
Leaving this thread, good luck convincing others, cause you definitely ain't convincing me that they should have less HP.
The point is drastically escaping you, as you refuse to look beyond the tradional EVE blob format to the changes that are attempting to be implemented.
The point, put simply, is guerrilla warfare. The very temporary "knocking out" of a stations services by a surgical strike to a station vital to local defenders is a method of conduction efficient warfare that doesnt revolve around gross numbers of ships crashing the server. It requires at least token defense of these indomitable structures that so far have served only to help establish complete and permanent dominance over a system. If we want to "get real", these defensive/logistical stations would also be liabilities to be protected.
Take as further evidence the "anti-blob" measures taken in introducing bombs, no secret is made that these are intended to help deflect the tendency to simply have 2 massive entrenched forces mindlessly duke it out in extended campaigns.
But that doesnt mean that you should be able to come into system when we have the least amount of people, and gank our services quickly & easily with a small gang. The thing about a game this big is that people play on different timezones, what may be primetime for you may be 4am for you enemies.
The primetime issue is rather irrelevant, tbh, as I've pointed out before. Reason being that people already take advantage of their opponent's weaker times to knock POSes into reinforced and shoot at the station services. The fact that it takes SOOOOOO damn long to knock out the station services only encourages blobing and using capitals, EXACTLY what this was supposed NOT to encourage.
It should take a deacent sized force to take it out in any acceptable timeframe. If you have say a fleet with around 20bs which is not a blob. You should be able to manage to get it in 30-45 minutes.
Thats just simply not true. Thats ludicrous. Youd be lucky to take it down in that timeframe with 10 dreadnoughts.
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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 06:45:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Zarcan
Originally by: ghosttr
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: ghosttr
Originally by: Lao Xu
Originally by: Hellaciouss
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
What exactly do you consider a "small gang"? A few gank set-up hacs?
So a few ganking hacs should be able to cripple a station? What part of "making them have less HP makes them even less important to defend" don't you get?
Leaving this thread, good luck convincing others, cause you definitely ain't convincing me that they should have less HP.
The point is drastically escaping you, as you refuse to look beyond the tradional EVE blob format to the changes that are attempting to be implemented.
The point, put simply, is guerrilla warfare. The very temporary "knocking out" of a stations services by a surgical strike to a station vital to local defenders is a method of conduction efficient warfare that doesnt revolve around gross numbers of ships crashing the server. It requires at least token defense of these indomitable structures that so far have served only to help establish complete and permanent dominance over a system. If we want to "get real", these defensive/logistical stations would also be liabilities to be protected.
Take as further evidence the "anti-blob" measures taken in introducing bombs, no secret is made that these are intended to help deflect the tendency to simply have 2 massive entrenched forces mindlessly duke it out in extended campaigns.
But that doesnt mean that you should be able to come into system when we have the least amount of people, and gank our services quickly & easily with a small gang. The thing about a game this big is that people play on different timezones, what may be primetime for you may be 4am for you enemies.
The primetime issue is rather irrelevant, tbh, as I've pointed out before. Reason being that people already take advantage of their opponent's weaker times to knock POSes into reinforced and shoot at the station services. The fact that it takes SOOOOOO damn long to knock out the station services only encourages blobing and using capitals, EXACTLY what this was supposed NOT to encourage.
It should take a deacent sized force to take it out in any acceptable timeframe. If you have say a fleet with around 20bs which is not a blob. You should be able to manage to get it in 30-45 minutes.
Thats just simply not true. Thats ludicrous. Youd be lucky to take it down in that timeframe with 10 dreadnoughts.
How was saying how it should work, not how it does work
Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking |
Prolixj2
Gallente
Veterans Of Liberation
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 06:53:00 -
[72]
I swear to god, one more quote of a quote of a quote of a quote, and i'm getting my soldiering iron out and I am going to proceed to gouge out eyeballs
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Auron Shadowbane
Teeth Of The Hydra
R i s e
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 07:01:00 -
[73]
tbh I like it as it is. With multiple carriers/moms you can repair the shields relatively quickly (usage for triage mode finally ^^) and a modern "roaming gang" can take them out within a few hours if they find you turtling (modern raming gangs consist of 50+ people; your itsy bits wana-be-ganks of 5 vagas dont count :P).
The high shield amounth (and therfore ammo usage) means that only people who really hate you are gona down your service, so you wont see random groups of 10 pirats who feel the urge to harass go and down your services.
last but not least this is a massive boost to amarrian laserships cause they can switch to t1 crystalls and take thin air for ammo :D
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes.
erm, no?
Size: 22.98 KB (23528 Bytes) |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 07:15:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Prolixj2
I swear to god, one more quote of a quote of a quote of a quote, and i'm getting my soldiering iron out and I am going to proceed to gouge out eyeballs
While it's on or off? Or better yet, start with it off, then cut it on partway through.
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Grihmstein
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 08:16:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Grihmstein on 24/06/2007 08:15:44
Quotes within quotes are funny.
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Farham
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 08:28:00 -
[76]
Quote:
The thing about a game this big is that people play on different timezones, what may be primetime for you may be 4am for you enemies.
And what maybe 4 am for you maybe prime time for them..so they shouldn't have the option of "making a difference"?
You and everyone else complaining have the option of recruiting more corps or players that support your weak time zones.
Put up a few stations of your own and get back to us on the annoyance factor of things that can be done to you on your weak timezone.
Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and All Around Major Idiot |
Ice Globe
Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 08:43:00 -
[77]
Agreed.
A BS force of 20+ and 5+ dreads should not be taking 30 mins to down the services.
It should be a very short turnaround thing.
Say, 10 BS can take out each service in 10 mins. This will actually make people protect their systems and also flush out people from the station who just sit in it all day until their alliance primetime.
No dreads should be needed for this.
______________
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Aleric Vikyz
Shadow Of The Light
R i s e
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 09:10:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ice Globe
Agreed.
A BS force of 20+ and 5+ dreads should not be taking 30 mins to down the services.
It should be a very short turnaround thing.
Thirty minutes? Are you insane? More like a couple hours, even with dreads.
Have fun. Try not to fall asleep.
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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 09:23:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ice Globe
Agreed.
A BS force of 20+ and 5+ dreads should not be taking 30 mins to down the services.
It should be a very short turnaround thing.
Say, 10 BS can take out each service in 10 mins. This will actually make people protect their systems and also flush out people from the station who just sit in it all day until their alliance primetime.
No dreads should be needed for this.
Like it said before, it should not be something where a small gang can take out services in a short amount of time. It should take 20bs or so about 30-45 minutes.
Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Endgame.
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 09:30:00 -
[80]
My own thoughts when looking at is was that you don't just kill them all nice and quick and move on as using outposts would become pretty much impossible when any small roaming gang can wander in at a quiet hour and disable a service at will.
Instead smaller gangs need to repeatedly multiple outpost services in different systems on a more regular basis as it can start to pull people from making isk or whatever to effect repairs i.e. slowly grind away at them (with the only other option being people don't repair them and eventually services start being disabled).
It's becomes not so much a case of being able to deal a crippling blow instantly but rather being able to harrass a system with constant raids over a longer period of time.
Anywho, I've not had any real direct experience with it yet so this is really just how I saw the whole thing as it's currently setup.
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 11:19:00 -
[81]
This discussion has been done on SHC for a bit too, a week ago or so before the patch.
There's two basic issues at work here:
Everything a small or medium gang can do a large gang can do better/faster/easier.
If you want something to be seen as an objective for the small or medium gang, and not the fleet/blob/capfleet, you need it to simply not be worth the time for a large fleet to do.
Disabling a few services renders an outpost useless. Thus is a strategic objective. Allowing small gangs to do this in small amounts of time can only lead to large gangs splitting up in alot of small ones doing alot of strategical damage. End result: alot of useless outposts.
Secondly, there the timezone problem. The above would in itself not be that much of an issue if (like all current other strategic goals), there was a method to deal with people being in different timezones.
So, if you want smaller gangs to have intermediate goals with at least some strategic effect you need to reduce the impact of those goals. Allowing for the timezone problem or leaving the effect of disabled station services as they are now prevents reducing the hitpoints because it would lead to constantly disabled outpost services.
My question is why CCP has not chosen to go for gradual disabling or reducing effectiveness rather then instant disabling. If you'd set five stages for every service, with each stage requiring an assault and including a cooldown period where the next assault cannot take place, you create the room needed to allow small gangs to achieve these objectives.
Reducing a refinery by 20% in effeciency is a nice goal. If left unrepaired for say 25 hours you might take it to the next stage, 40% efficiency lost, etc. etc.
That way it's not worth doing with capital fleets, but is worth doing with smaller fleets, and thus hitpoints involved can be reduced.
[center]
Old blog |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 11:25:00 -
[82]
There are undeniable facts guys!
Peoople don 't like to spend more than 1 or 2 hours on a" not fun" stuff.
So they bring huge blob. To finish in less than 2 hours. THen enemy has 2 hours to form an even huger blob to kil them
no no no the hitpoints as they are just make blobing MORE MORE Aand MORE
Get this to your minds CCP the more HP you give to thing (POS, ships, stations etc) the ,ore bloobage you will have. THe faster and easier to achieve thew objectives, the mroe you will have small gangs!!!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Prolixj2
Gallente
Veterans Of Liberation
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 14:24:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: Prolixj2
I swear to god, one more quote of a quote of a quote of a quote, and i'm getting my soldiering iron out and I am going to proceed to gouge out eyeballs
While it's on or off? Or better yet, start with it off, then cut it on partway through.
halfway on, that way it takes a little longer to make the damage done
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Love Juice
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 15:16:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Love Juice
The change is fine. Why should it take you 10 mins to own someones outpost? Get a clue. The time and effort to take down services should be long and time consuming. If you haven't figured it out yet, thats what Eve is. Leave if you don't have the time.
It's not a problem for it to be taken down in 10 minutes if it only takes 10 minutes to put back up. Get a clue, we don't need more boring, long-ass "features" like this, especially since taking down station services was supposed to be an "intermediate objective", something a small roaming gang could perform.
So your solution is to make us pewpew and repair over and over and over and over again, 100 times a day? While making the outpost owners frustrated over and over and over and over again, cuz it only take you 10mins to own their station over and over and over and over again.
You're lame.
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Love Juice
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 15:20:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Badhands
Edited by: Badhands on 24/06/2007 01:44:43
I see this as a way to keep people from turtling up inside their precious outposts and hiding like cowards.
Just like everyone does... just like someone cowers at a POS cuz they can't afford an outpost. You act like being safe is a cowardly task... instead you just insulted every player in Eve. I'd be one to believe you'd be the first to hide like a turtle in an outpost if your system was hostile. Oh no, but you are so uber you'd undock with every ship you had and fight to the death.
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Love Juice
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 15:28:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
There are undeniable facts guys!
Peoople don 't like to spend more than 1 or 2 hours on a" not fun" stuff.
So they bring huge blob. To finish in less than 2 hours. THen enemy has 2 hours to form an even huger blob to kil them
no no no the hitpoints as they are just make blobing MORE MORE Aand MORE
Get this to your minds CCP the more HP you give to thing (POS, ships, stations etc) the ,ore bloobage you will have. THe faster and easier to achieve thew objectives, the mroe you will have small gangs!!!
You quickly forgot that not everyone in Eve logs on at the exact 1-2 hours you may be logging on. Battles for alliances can easily be ongoing all day... and have numbers remain quite stable.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 15:30:00 -
[87]
@ Rod Blaine: You have some good points there. An alternative to different stages of disabling would be for the services to repair themselves fairly rapidly.
@ Love Juice: And you think that repairing hours on end is any better?
You're lame.
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Love Juice
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 15:42:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
@ Love Juice: And you think that repairing hours on end is any better?
You're lame.
Yes, hours on end IS better... this gives you chances to assemble, respond, and counter the attack. Knocking out services should not be an easy task, and it should not be a griefer tactic. The way it stands is that its a strategical tactic, to hurt your enemy and be able to use that against them in other engagements. This should not be a daily thing outpost owners have to deal with.
And calling me lame, after I just caleld you lame, makes you lamer for not coming up with your own original wit.
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Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 15:59:00 -
[89]
This topic is STILL going?
How do you people possibly think you're going to magically get action when shooting something that takes 10 minutes to repair?
If the services has less HP, that makes them less important to defend, as you can just wait out the attackers and take 10 minutes to repair it later.
Or lets see, you can take out the cloning service in 10 minutes with a handful of t1 cruisers and frigates and make it even less likely for people to come out and fight because they know if they die they can not replace the clone in that system. Fun, amiright?
I am not failing to understand these new destroyable services one bit. They are not something you just go around and cripple with a couple cruisers and frigates. Why even bother killing them in the first place if they would only take 10 minutes to repair? They just wait for you to leave and repair it in 10 minutes.
You can kill them over the course of a few days with a small gang, which is perfectly fine. This means you can go harass multiple stations each day, shooting each service for a little bit in each system, which will eventually kill off a service if they don't repair it.
Or, you can bring a large fleet fitted with close range/high damage and kill cloning in an hour.
Sorry, but being able to just kill the things in 10 minutes with a handful of ships makes them completely worthless to kill, and defend, as they will just go back up as soon as you leave.
So, in conclusion, the less HP they have, the less worthwhile they are to kill and defend, which means you're still doing nothing useful. The more HP they have, the longer it takes to kill, the longer it takes to repair, the more important they are to kill and defend, the more likely you are to get some pewpew action while attacking, no matter what size gang you have.
Or you know, you can waste more time here QQ'ing about it instead of shooting it
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
Jayson Lee
Minmatar
Universal Exports
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 16:01:00 -
[90]
I have zero experience with this stuff so this idea might qualify as the dumbest idea ever.
What if outposts did not have shields on at all times? What I am getting at is something like this. In order for an outpost to be used the shields must be down. You cannot leave or enter a station with the shields up.
In order to raise the shields it takes 5-10 minutes to bring them online. In that time frame the structure of the outpost is open to attack. Once under attack the owner of the station needs to make a decision. Either raise the shields and trap everyone inside, or sally forth and remove the attackers.
Now the problem for the station owners is that once you raise the shields, they can't be lowered for an hour(pure speculation). So in effect your station services would be useless for 1 hour plus what ever damage was done by the enemy gang before the shields could be raised.
This would allow small gangs the oppertunity to cause damage and disrupt enemy operations while also preventing a blob from forming. In this case a small fast gang is a much better option that a large fleet. Speed is what you need to surprise the enemy.
I am sure this opens up a whole bunch of additional problems that I am not aware of, but it sounds good on paper.
|
Santa Anna
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 16:39:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Guys, you seem to forget that the point of the attackable services was to give something to do to small gangs, in order to reduce blobbing. Now you're saying that it should take capitals and/or a large gang (so blob) to complete this in any way of a timely manner... see where I find a problem with this? Yes, taking out the station services is important strategically; I fully realise that. However, the fact that it takes forever to take them down flies in the face of why that feature was implemented. So I suggest that while it shouldn't take long to take them down, it shouldn't take long to bring them back up again, even with a small gang of gankers and a small gang of reppers.
POS warfare was changed to better accommodate small gangs (and gangs/fleets of smaller ships) with the change to POS battery tracking, the movement of POS batteries and other modules outside of shields, and the introduction of cyno-blocking towers. I don't think destructible outpost services were intended to be viable small/med gang targets, at least not in the time frame you envision. |
Zilkin
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 16:46:00 -
[92]
And this was advertised as one of the features to make small gangs more viable. GG CCP GG...
|
Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 17:23:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Hellaciouss on 24/06/2007 17:22:03
Originally by: Zilkin
And this was advertised as one of the features to make small gangs more viable. GG CCP GG...
Lets see:
Can't kill a POS with guns with a small gang.....Check!
Can kill Outpost Services over the course of a couple raids with a small gang.....Check!
Anything I'm missing? I mean seriously...boo hoo...you can't cripple a station with a handful of ships in 10 minutes...gots to go to the forum and QQ about it
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
Irob Urore
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 17:57:00 -
[94]
yay more blob warfare, just what we need.
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Alha Qmar
Caldari
Xenon Logistics
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 17:58:00 -
[95]
Last week my main was part of a 40+ bs gang that went to shoot a station service, just as an experiment. All those bs were fking t2 or with alot of DPS. Belive it or not, after a 10 minutes of intensive shooting the service, its shields were barely scratched. At the speed and with 40 bs it would have taken 2-3 hours to finish that thing off.
Hereby I would like to congratz CCP for another abosuletely crap addition to the game. You need a couple fking dreads to attack station services.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.24 18:07:00 -
[96]
What many overlook is the fact that this forces the owners of outposts to actually be ready and wake all day instead of ratting / mining / sitting afk in or near the outpost systems.
Its pretty clear to me, just as with the changes to sovereignty and POS maintenance (logistics), CCP wants to reduce POS spammage in systems without outposts. What this does is exactly along those lines, force people to fight in outpost systems.
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Recluse Viramor
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.24 18:09:00 -
[97]
Chalk another one.
Completely borked 'feature'.
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Hellaciouss
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.24 19:02:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Alha Qmar
Last week my main was part of a 40+ bs gang that went to shoot a station service, just as an experiment. All those bs were fking t2 or with alot of DPS. Belive it or not, after a 10 minutes of intensive shooting the service, its shields were barely scratched. At the speed and with 40 bs it would have taken 2-3 hours to finish that thing off.
Hereby I would like to congratz CCP for another abosuletely crap addition to the game. You need a couple fking dreads to attack station services.
I am going to take a guess and say you were shooting the cloning service which I believe has the most HP by far considering how important it is. Try shooting something else.
Give it more time...you people are amazing with how quick you call it a failure.  
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
Maglorre
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Posted - 2007.06.25 00:50:00 -
[99]
Show me where in the patch notes it says that outpost services are intended targets for "small gangs". Here, I will quote it for the lazy
Originally by: Patch Notes
Targetable Outpost Services Individual services offered by outposts are now vulnerable to precision strikes. Attacking players will see a list of ôopportunity targetsö in their overview as they approach these stations, each of which will have different hit point values depending on their importance. Servicesùincluding any jobs running at the time of attackùwill become unavailable for outpost residents as they are destroyed, but can be restored once selective criteria are met.
"Precision Strike" does not imply small gangs.
Why do you have to take it all down at once? Do some damage to it and move on. Come back the next day and do a bit more. Roam around your enemy's territory and shoot at POS defenses and station services on a regular basis and your enemy will need to spend time fixing the damage.
This is probably the only place I can see some improvement in game play. As others have suggested, have station services degrade in peformance as they are damaged. Refinery efficiency is reduced, manufacturing takes longer (other services probably are an all or nothing thing though). This would have some financial impact then for even small gangs doing a bit of damage to some services.
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