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"/end /LUA:OFF" sucks

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Apertotes Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:03:00 - [1] why CCP? i have three different EVE accounts, and thus, i use 3 different EVE folders with 3 different installations so that i do not have to share settings between different accounts. now, thanks to your great idea of putting everything on the "My documents settings" my EVE accounts and settings are a complete mess. so, i tried browsing the forums, and i found the Holy Grial of "/end /LUA:OFF" or however its spelled, i pasted the magic words into my EVE shortcuts, re-moved all my stuff to the previus place (from where they should have never got out), deleted the new and horrendous EVE folder on "My documents" and started eve again. well, it sucks!!!!! 5 seconds later, there was a new EVE folder on "My documents". so, CCP, how can we, the few XP users you still have as costumers, get back our old functionality?
General Xerxes Delta Omega Iota Inc. Breidablik	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:06:00 - [2] Originally by: Apertotes so, CCP, how can we, the few XP users you still have as costumers, get back our old functionality? I'll be very surprised if there are only a few XP users left, we're most likely the majority.
Apertotes Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:08:00 - [3] Originally by: General Xerxes Originally by: Apertotes so, CCP, how can we, the few XP users you still have as costumers, get back our old functionality? I'll be very surprised if there are only a few XP users left, we're most likely the majority. yeah, well, it was ironic. why isnt there any emote for it?
Neesa Corrinne Black Watch Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:09:00 - [4] I couldn't agree with you more about this. Every time I open one account, close it and then open one of my other accounts, I have to completely rework all of my settings. This isn't just annoying, it's unacceptable and needs to be reworked as soon as the exploits have been dealt with.
Altar Mei Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:12:00 - [5] Indeed, why tf would you do this when I'm guessing over half your customer base runs dual accounts? Originally by: CCP Arkanon We're a company of professionals, not some LAN party gone bad.
Talen Kross T Miners	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:14:00 - [6] Edited by: Talen Kross on 25/06/2007 19:16:17 Edited by: Talen Kross on 25/06/2007 19:13:55 I had the same problem, delete your cache, capture and log folders, in each of your eve directories. Eg delete the following: F:\Games\EVE\cache F:\Games\EVE\capture F:\Games\EVE\logs Then for each of your eve installs create a shortcut to eve like this: http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9951/shortcutnx8.jpg Each time you start eve you have to use this shortcut. Then start eve this will recreate these folders. This worked for me and I have 2 accounts running from the same folder. Everything is back to normal. Maybe I should start a topic for a guide on this?
Lady Natacha Minmatar Water and Power	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:42:00 - [7] Originally by: General Xerxes I'll be very surprised if there are only a few XP users left, we're most likely the majority. I only just recently upgraded to XP from WIN2K which I was perfectly happy with other than it would not recognize my shiny new dual core CPU correctly. You can bet I will be waiting for whatever comes after VISTA before I will consider upgrading. By then, it may not even be a MS product. VISTA = Windows ME in 2007.
Nyabi Caldari Ionic Defender	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:50:00 - [8] Running 3 accounts with no problems, One account on a seperate installation without the command and 2 on one installation with the command. No problems other than the need to clean out the cache folder once a week.
Dexter Grim Caldari Shogo Mobile Armor Division	Posted - 2007.06.25 20:09:00 - [9] All they had to do was read the root folder name of the eve directory and use that to distinguish the eve installs. mine: Eve Eve-Alt Eve-Test so therefore: C:\Documents and Settings\xxx\Local Settings\Application Data\CCP\EVE\[yourfoldername]\cache Dex
Necrosmith Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.06.25 20:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Lady Natacha Originally by: General Xerxes I'll be very surprised if there are only a few XP users left, we're most likely the majority. I only just recently upgraded to XP from WIN2K which I was perfectly happy with other than it would not recognize my shiny new dual core CPU correctly. You can bet I will be waiting for whatever comes after VISTA before I will consider upgrading. By then, it may not even be a MS product. VISTA = Windows ME in 2007. Ya, I kind of get that feeling too. I'm in no hurry to upgrade. ------------- "Isk is cheap. Life is cheaper. This week, they're having a sale on both." Laugh until you cry: Battle Asses
Hippo117 Caldari Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.25 20:32:00 - [11] The trick to getting it to work was to add /end /LUA:OFF to your target line after patching to kali2, but before launching it. A little awareness of upcoming patch changes would have solved your problem entirely. I'm running 3 accounts, and except for the capture and logs folders which aren't effected by /end /LUA:OFF, I'm running just as before. -------------- Obligulatory 'opinion does not nescessarily represent those of my corp/alliance' stuff here.
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:09:00 - [12] The shortcut switches only reverts your cache to the old location. The files in 'My Documents' are Logs and Screenshots, not your cache. -----
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:13:00 - [13] Edited by: Andrue on 25/06/2007 21:13:38 You don't need multiple Eve installs to run multiple accounts concurrently. I've been running two accounts for over three years and always done so from the one folder. The only time I have more than one Eve folder is when I have a Sisi patch. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] *This is not* a signature**
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:16:00 - [14] Be happy that EVE is up at all; there are many, many more horrible things that can happen to your client than the loss of your settings. (i.e. mispatching or corrupting the client and having you dl/reinstall everything from scratch.)
Miss Anthropy School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:19:00 - [15] Originally by: General Xerxes Originally by: Apertotes so, CCP, how can we, the few XP users you still have as costumers, get back our old functionality? I'll be very surprised if there are only a few XP users left, we're most likely the majority. I'd wager there are as many Linux users as there are Vista users.
JoDirt Minmatar House of Geezer	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:20:00 - [16] From a windows programing standpoint it is "Best practice" to place this kind of content in the My Documents folder. Even for XP. Sloppy habits started back with win95 this is a correction of that sloppy habit. They just need to organize it a better.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:22:00 - [17] Originally by: JoDirt From a windows programing standpoint it is "Best practice" to place this kind of content in the My Documents folder. Even for XP. Sloppy habits started back with win95 this is a correction of that sloppy habit. They just need to organize it a better. Too bad that the windows profile goes down like a drunk prom date when it gets to be over 6-7 gigs in size. This so called "best practice" is equivalent of digging your own XP grave.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:24:00 - [18] Originally by: JoDirt From a windows programing standpoint it is "Best practice" to place this kind of content in the My Documents folder. Even for XP. Sloppy habits started back with win95 this is a correction of that sloppy habit. They just need to organize it a better. Placing anything in a folder which Windows XP may very well nuke if and when it has a spaz attack is not best practice. Distributing a program's data over multiple folders outside of the directory structure you indicated it was to use is not best practice. - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
JoDirt Minmatar House of Geezer	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: JoDirt From a windows programing standpoint it is "Best practice" to place this kind of content in the My Documents folder. Even for XP. Sloppy habits started back with win95 this is a correction of that sloppy habit. They just need to organize it a better. Too bad that the windows profile goes down like a drunk prom date when it gets to be over 6-7 gigs in size. This so called "best practice" is equivalent of digging your own XP grave. I will have to retest that in XP, I haven't run XP for a while. However when I did My Documents folder had about 40gigs of data (virtual machines) in it and ran like a champ, vista also runs fine with this amount.
JoDirt Minmatar House of Geezer	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: JoDirt From a windows programing standpoint it is "Best practice" to place this kind of content in the My Documents folder. Even for XP. Sloppy habits started back with win95 this is a correction of that sloppy habit. They just need to organize it a better. Placing anything in a folder which Windows XP may very well nuke if and when it has a spaz attack is not best practice. Distributing a program's data over multiple folders outside of the directory structure you indicated it was to use is not best practice. Actually it is best practice because of the way the permissions work in Vista (UAC). CCP is taking the best approach imo. They are cleaning up their client for vista so we don't get prompted for trivial tasks. Which is the way it should be.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:32:00 - [21] Originally by: JoDirt Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: JoDirt From a windows programing standpoint it is "Best practice" to place this kind of content in the My Documents folder. Even for XP. Sloppy habits started back with win95 this is a correction of that sloppy habit. They just need to organize it a better. Placing anything in a folder which Windows XP may very well nuke if and when it has a spaz attack is not best practice. Distributing a program's data over multiple folders outside of the directory structure you indicated it was to use is not best practice. Actually it is best practice because of the way the permissions work in Vista (UAC). CCP is taking the best approach imo. They are cleaning up their client for vista so we don't get prompted for trivial tasks. Which is the way it should be. A) This is XP. Are ifthenelse 2hard? B) Cleaning up? They are making it horribly disorganized. See all the people running around "going WTF are my files?". Windows/Microsoft says to do it this way? Windows says a lot of things. - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
JoDirt Minmatar House of Geezer	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:37:00 - [22] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: JoDirt Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: JoDirt From a windows programing standpoint it is "Best practice" to place this kind of content in the My Documents folder. Even for XP. Sloppy habits started back with win95 this is a correction of that sloppy habit. They just need to organize it a better. Placing anything in a folder which Windows XP may very well nuke if and when it has a spaz attack is not best practice. Distributing a program's data over multiple folders outside of the directory structure you indicated it was to use is not best practice. Actually it is best practice because of the way the permissions work in Vista (UAC). CCP is taking the best approach imo. They are cleaning up their client for vista so we don't get prompted for trivial tasks. Which is the way it should be. A) This is XP. Are ifthenelse 2hard? B) Cleaning up? They are making it horribly disorganized. See all the people running around "going WTF are my files?". Windows/Microsoft says to do it this way? Windows says a lot of things. Well people also run around *****ing about being prompted for stupid things in vista because a program is poorly written, MS isn't going to change the code for every software vendor out there, it's up to the vendor to write code specific to the platform. Anyhow, I think they will improve it, now that it's moved they simply need to tweak their process and organize the files more efficiently.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:40:00 - [23] Originally by: JoDirt Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: JoDirt Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: JoDirt From a windows programing standpoint it is "Best practice" to place this kind of content in the My Documents folder. Even for XP. Sloppy habits started back with win95 this is a correction of that sloppy habit. They just need to organize it a better. Placing anything in a folder which Windows XP may very well nuke if and when it has a spaz attack is not best practice. Distributing a program's data over multiple folders outside of the directory structure you indicated it was to use is not best practice. Actually it is best practice because of the way the permissions work in Vista (UAC). CCP is taking the best approach imo. They are cleaning up their client for vista so we don't get prompted for trivial tasks. Which is the way it should be. A) This is XP. Are ifthenelse 2hard? B) Cleaning up? They are making it horribly disorganized. See all the people running around "going WTF are my files?". Windows/Microsoft says to do it this way? Windows says a lot of things. Well people also run around *****ing about being prompted for stupid things in vista because a program is poorly written, MS isn't going to change the code for every software vendor out there, it's up to the vendor to write code specific to the platform. Anyhow, I think they will improve it, now that it's moved they simply need to tweak their process and organize the files more efficiently. If something works fine in XP, but causes things to pop up in Vista, it isn't the program that is the problem. And why do you keep talking about code and such? It's only the location of the files that anyone is concerned about. - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:44:00 - [24] The reason this is being done is because the Windows security model is based in part on preventing casual access to program installations. This is a sensible idea. The only time any program should need to write into its installation directory is when it is installed. At that time the OS should insist on some kind of validation - at least a login dialog, ideally a physical key that has to be turned to enable 'maintennance mode'. Under early versions of Windows (and XP when you're logged in as Administrator like 99% of people are) any application can modify anything under \Program Files\ any time it wants. Viruses, trojans and other malware can all happily hack and abuse your installed applications. Under Vista and XP (if like me you normally run as a limited user) nothing can write to those directories without gaining elevated privileges - something that requires a dialog box at least once. You could argue that Windows should allow permissions on individual folders within \Program Files\ but then you have a problem backing up. You have to manually select the data folders or else backup the entire directory tree. The existing system allows you to just backup My Documents\ and contrary to what some posters have claimed Windows does not 'nuke' this folder whenever it wants to. Even reinstalling Windows leaves it intact. The issue of corrupt profiles is pretty rare and in any case doesn't destroy data. It just at most requires that the data be copied by an administrator into a new profile. I'm not saying the Windows security model is perfect but most administrators will try to keep data separate from program code and will lock program code down during normal day to day operation if they can. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] *This is not* a signature**
JoDirt Minmatar House of Geezer	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:47:00 - [25] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: JoDirt Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: JoDirt Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: JoDirt From a windows programing standpoint it is "Best practice" to place this kind of content in the My Documents folder. Even for XP. Sloppy habits started back with win95 this is a correction of that sloppy habit. They just need to organize it a better. Placing anything in a folder which Windows XP may very well nuke if and when it has a spaz attack is not best practice. Distributing a program's data over multiple folders outside of the directory structure you indicated it was to use is not best practice. Actually it is best practice because of the way the permissions work in Vista (UAC). CCP is taking the best approach imo. They are cleaning up their client for vista so we don't get prompted for trivial tasks. Which is the way it should be. A) This is XP. Are ifthenelse 2hard? B) Cleaning up? They are making it horribly disorganized. See all the people running around "going WTF are my files?". Windows/Microsoft says to do it this way? Windows says a lot of things. Well people also run around *****ing about being prompted for stupid things in vista because a program is poorly written, MS isn't going to change the code for every software vendor out there, it's up to the vendor to write code specific to the platform. Anyhow, I think they will improve it, now that it's moved they simply need to tweak their process and organize the files more efficiently. If something works fine in XP, but causes things to pop up in Vista, it isn't the program that is the problem. And why do you keep talking about code and such? It's only the location of the files that anyone is concerned about. I laugh everytime we go through this, actually i cry too. but anyway most of the XP users will eventually be running vista, there will be more OS to follow. Hey quick show of hands... Who's still running Windows 98? how about 2k? but by all means take your time to transition, there is no rush...
tommit	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:48:00 - [26] O.o are you serius dude?! you complaining that you can't use more then one account at the same time effectively?! you GOTTA be kidding me i am just waiting for them to forbid more then one account for each player, and letting you train on all 3 charector and giving a link under show info to the two other chars so you know who the person is AS IT SHOULD BE
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:48:00 - [27] Originally by: JoDirt Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: JoDirt From a windows programing standpoint it is "Best practice" to place this kind of content in the My Documents folder. Even for XP. Sloppy habits started back with win95 this is a correction of that sloppy habit. They just need to organize it a better. Too bad that the windows profile goes down like a drunk prom date when it gets to be over 6-7 gigs in size. This so called "best practice" is equivalent of digging your own XP grave. I will have to retest that in XP, I haven't run XP for a while. However when I did My Documents folder had about 40gigs of data (virtual machines) in it and ran like a champ, vista also runs fine with this amount. It could be the whole VM thing, a true profile of more than 7 gigs at my IT job ends up getting corrupted, and really odd **** happens. It usually happens with the application data, i.e. local mail file trees get all wonky and don't point the proper locations, etc.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Andrue stuff I believe the issues people are having are being caused by two different Eve installations using the same files. How does that fit into this fancy new system? I'd like to meet the programmers of every game/program to use this new structure so I can hit them with an implement of some sort for the amount of hassle they've caused me trying to track down files which could just as easily have been put in the directory I told the game/program to put its files in. If Vista fails so hard at security that it has to screw with file structures and lock down entire directory trees then it shouldn't even try. I run XP as admin and it's perfectly secure as I delegate security related stuff to software which does it competently, and won't allow anything remotely potentially harmful anywhere in the system. And I've seen My Documents get nuked by windows. I store any and all important stuff in folders in the root of the drive, because anything under Documents and Settings may go with Windows when it goes, and I learned my lesson after it happened once. - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
Lance Hawke Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:59:00 - [29] Originally by: Apertotes costumers this made me lol what costume am I making?
JoDirt Minmatar House of Geezer	Posted - 2007.06.25 22:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Andrue stuff I believe the issues people are having are being caused by two different Eve installations using the same files. How does that fit into this fancy new system? I'd like to meet the programmers of every game/program to use this new structure so I can hit them with an implement of some sort for the amount of hassle they've caused me trying to track down files which could just as easily have been put in the directory I told the game/program to put its files in. If Vista fails so hard at security that it has to screw with file structures and lock down entire directory trees then it shouldn't even try. I run XP as admin and it's perfectly secure as I delegate security related stuff to software which does it competently, and won't allow anything remotely potentially harmful anywhere in the system. And I've seen My Documents get nuked by windows. I store any and all important stuff in folders in the root of the drive, because anything under Documents and Settings may go with Windows when it goes, and I learned my lesson after it happened once. Love it or hate it, it is what it is. who knows someday CCP might make a Linux or Mac version. then everyone can stfu and move on heheh. Queue DS comment about Linux.

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