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Artean Minmatar North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.06.26 11:54:00 - [61] Originally by: MehTheTrader Nice you put a gallente ships.. we are talking about caldari and ammar being underpowered not gallente. READ ... You are spot on here; nerf gallente and do it now! ........ When ever in doubt; troll. There's a thin line between professional gate camping and just standing by a gate looking like an idiot...
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.26 11:59:00 - [62] Originally by: MehTheTrader Speed, great dps, no cap guns?? that is just nuts. Increase damage on blasters and torpedos to compensate, or decrease damage on minimatar. What minmatar ships do you fly?
Zasses	Posted - 2007.06.26 12:13:00 - [63] Why not nerf everything and have everyone do missions in a shuttle.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.26 12:24:00 - [64] OP has officialy no clue! AC has lowest DPS of all close range turrets. Arties have lowest DPS of all long range turrets! Check database before spiting sensless statements! If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
phalanxTW F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.06.26 12:33:00 - [65] I never thought I'd see the day... a nerf minmatar thread... wow.
Arachidamia Matari People's Front	Posted - 2007.06.26 12:36:00 - [66] Hard to take this thread seriously. Out of all races I'd say Minmatar are perhaps the best balanced. If you want to fix a race, look at lasers.
tommit	Posted - 2007.06.26 12:44:00 - [67] O.o as i see it the only two races balanced is minmatar and gallente. boost caldari alittle bit (in other words remove the privius nerfs to them). and multi freaking killer boost amarr.. those poor guys dont stand a chance in the long run, i mean seriusly, they got low dps(in reality, although i know they have the highest basic dps if you stand still at optimal), there tanks are useless when using lasers (since caps say puf and gone), their speed is kind of a joke compared to the more speeding races. they have non really EW designed effective ships... actually they kind of have nothing in theyre favour O.o poor guys. STOP NERFING AND START BOOSTING. no body likes to be nerfed, every bodi loves to get a boost, so boost those weaker races to be competative in pvp
Shagrath Neptune Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.26 12:53:00 - [68] Edited by: Shagrath Neptune on 26/06/2007 12:53:02 It is people like the OPer which cause MMO games to suck because they have that "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome so developers say to hell with it, make all races, classes, ships weapons ect the same and just slap a different skin on them. DAOC was the same way. Everyone whining about what someone has access to in the other realms. Soon the devs caved and now that game is a mess and is dying. One reason is because people whined and the Devs changed around the classes too much. In all honesty, this is the first time I have read a post where someone wanted all of Minmater nerfed. I have read posts about wanting the Vaga nerfed but not the entire race. I would say Gallente would have to take one hell of a nerf first before we even think about nerfing Minmater. How about if they just boost Amarr to bring it up to speed with the other three races and call it a day?
Dionisius Gallente Vindictive Behavior THE H0RDE	Posted - 2007.06.26 13:25:00 - [69] Originally by: MehTheTrader Speed, great dps, no cap guns?? that is just nuts. Increase damage on blasters and torpedos to compensate, or decrease damage on minimatar. Cut the speed of a minie ship = minie ship dead. They do less damage, they spend more ammo, they miss a bit more already. They have the shi**st cap capacity of all races so, what¦s really your problem? _______________________ Originally by:** Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 21/06/2007 13:51:39 in eve you can break their windows, take over the house, and throw the children in the fire.
JabJabVVV Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.26 13:38:00 - [70] I too will not be happy until every race is identical, in fact I think CCP should go one better.. make every ship identical please, this will presumably make Eve more fun or something. Oh actually, that's a moronic idea. (disclaimer: I'm a Caldari missile specialist - I have no vested interest in not nerfing minmater except that I think 'balance' can go too far and detract from the game) Having said that, I suspect this is an intentional troll post; however the sad thing is that some people actually think like this. ----------- When I was a n00b, I spake as a n00b, I understood as a n00b, I thought as a n00b: but when I became pr0, I put away n00bish things.
Vyyrus Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.26 13:44:00 - [71] Its funny how only the noobs say nerf this neft that and they usually get their way =[
Trishan Green Men Incorporated The Threshold	Posted - 2007.06.26 13:50:00 - [72] Nerf? Whatever. We already got our, what, -20% dps on the last patch on most of our ship. I don't give a damn anymore. Eventually we'll become even worse than amarr and then ccp will see that they overnerfed. I'm sure they hate the speed thing. They would probably be happy if we all flew bricks like the 'strom that once the fight starts it can't go anywhere. Or before it does. But that's not the point :)
Tundaar Minmatar Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.06.26 14:03:00 - [73] Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: AstroPhobic Minimal speed boost, only relevant in certain ships (Anyone see nano-tempests bouncing around?) Autocannons dont hold a candle to blasters in DPS (might I say that pulses got a tracking bonus for fun ) Arty DPS is horrid and burst damage sucks with the new HP buff.. No cap guns sure, just like caldari's missiles Need I mention that you have to train your speed skills high to be effective, your armor skills, your shield skills, your drone skills, your gun skills, your missile skills, your cap skills, your PG skills to fit artillery... Get all of that maxed and you will be sub-par for PvE still and be rivaling gallente in PvP. Astro Its funny that you can only argue against gallente. No way you could say mini is not overpowered compared to ammar/caldari. Yes gallente have biggest dps that is fair they are fine. Minimatar have better dps(exp ammo-do you fly mini?) than caldari and ammar. Mini Speed is fine, but needs to lose dps to compensate, it can't have speed and dps. Either that or increase tank on ammar, and increase damage on missle torps. Gallente are fine as is, as they have to get close for dps. wtf are you talking about skills?? all races cross train nub . What are you smoking Meh ?? Minnie HAVE to cross train - no other race has to use a combo of Missiles AND Drones AND Guns to get their DPS, then there are the ships - some minnies ships are Armour Tanks, some are Shield tanks - so ya gotta get the Armour AND sheild Tanks skills up. . . . cap ships . . oh yeah - Gotta Train Cap Torpedoes AND Cap Projectiles or leave 2 slots empty Yes - a well trained Minnie Pilot will do OK. . I only fly Minnie Frig/AF/Inty/Cruiser/Hac/BC and BS - can't fly anything else - but at 28 Million SP I still can't get the max out of those ship. Cyclone Sheild tanks, Typhoon better for Armour etc My alt with teh same SP is better across a wider variety of ships flying Gallente . . . .and Don't even get me started on Mission running ships - I wish Minnie ones were as good as Caldari for PvE . . wish I only had to train missiles to be good ! All races have their own slot (except Amarr of course because they suck) - but Minnie ships definitely don't need any nerf
Zalathar Minmatar Biometaloid INC	Posted - 2007.06.26 14:23:00 - [74] Originally by: Zasses Why not nerf everything and have everyone do missions in a shuttle. oh, don't be silly, everyone knows that the shuttle tanks about as well, say, a templar, which coincidently is amarr and used by carriers... Sorry, i could not resist... ~~~~~~ mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!" ~~~~~~ eeeeeekk - Deckard eeeeee...K -Darth Patches gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge you soo pretty I think you're stunningly handsome and let me just say that you're wearing that dead parrot on your shoulder in a particularly dashing way today. -Hango Your using up all the space hango! - Timmeh
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.06.26 15:02:00 - [75] Originally by: Shagrath Neptune Edited by: Shagrath Neptune on 26/06/2007 12:53:02 It is people like the OPer which cause MMO games to suck because they have that "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome so developers say to hell with it, make all races, classes, ships weapons ect the same and just slap a different skin on them. DAOC was the same way. Everyone whining about what someone has access to in the other realms. Soon the devs caved and now that game is a mess and is dying. One reason is because people whined and the Devs changed around the classes too much. In all honesty, this is the first time I have read a post where someone wanted all of Minmater nerfed. I have read posts about wanting the Vaga nerfed but not the entire race. I would say Gallente would have to take one hell of a nerf first before we even think about nerfing Minmater. How about if they just boost Amarr to bring it up to speed with the other three races and call it a day? Never has their been a truer or more important post on this board! It is now my sig! It is people like the OPer which cause MMO games to suck because they have that "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome so developers say to hell with it, make all races, classes, ships weap
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.06.26 16:00:00 - [76] Originally by: Shagrath Neptune Edited by: Shagrath Neptune on 26/06/2007 12:53:02 It is people like the OPer which cause MMO games to suck because they have that "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome so developers say to hell with it, make all races, classes, ships weapons ect the same and just slap a different skin on them. No, people like the OP I think are pretty well just laughed at or ignored by everybody except other players on the forums. It's not like he's actually made any logical arguments or backed anything up. It's just routine trollbait. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Shinjuro Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.06.26 16:24:00 - [77] I Currently have a Caldari spec/Heavy Minnie Spec Character. I used to have a Gallante/Caldari Spec. In my time with both I have learned 3 things. 1. Minmatar are totally worthless at anything other than a slightly better alpha strike than most, and at going somewhat faster than the opposition. They are the lowest dps at basically everything they do. They are the worst tanking race in game. 2. Gallante needed/needs/always will need until it happens a nerf. Good tanking abilities, Best DPS in game. Best Drone abilities in game. AND FFS THE DOMI! And for someone to say boost caldari.. LoL Why Should I even have to say anything. 3. Amarr is kinda the in between/uper half of everything. BEST tanking ships in game. Good alpha strikes, good dps, good mid range. Crappy dmg types. IMO I would say that if CCP are gonna make Matar the alpha/speed race.. Then ffs make it happen, it is even arguable that a lot of ships obsolete everything that Matar can do. And with that said.. Amarr need a boost. Ya sure they got the best 3 cap ships in game.. But who cares, they need a boost for the everyday players, not the burned out 3-4 year vets.
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.26 16:38:00 - [78] Edited by: Incantare on 26/06/2007 16:37:42 Originally by: Kagura Nikon OP has officialy no clue! AC has lowest DPS of all close range turrets. Arties have lowest DPS of all long range turrets! Check database before spiting sensless statements! While I don't agree with the OP, simply saying that ACs have the lowest does not paint the whole picture for two reasons: 1) Ships with Damage and RoF bonuses or just RoF 2) EXP is a great damage type to deal because of the prevalence of armor tankers in pvp. While minnie raw dps may be low effective dps is great on armor, and phased plasma / EMP are good on shields. Compare that to Amarr dealing limited to EM / therm, minnie has it easy. Also to whoever said minnie can't tank, well it depends on the ship, Maelstrom has an amazing tank, same with the Claymore / Sleip. That said I think minmatar are the most balanced race, they're perfectly fine. Gallente though...
N Solarz Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.26 16:45:00 - [79] Originally by: MehTheTrader Speed, great dps, no cap guns?? that is just nuts. Increase damage on blasters and torpedos to compensate, or decrease damage on minimatar. MehTheTrader, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.26 16:49:00 - [80] Originally by: Incantare Edited by: Incantare on 26/06/2007 16:37:42 Originally by: Kagura Nikon OP has officialy no clue! AC has lowest DPS of all close range turrets. Arties have lowest DPS of all long range turrets! Check database before spiting sensless statements! While I don't agree with the OP, simply saying that ACs have the lowest does not paint the whole picture for two reasons: 1) Ships with Damage and RoF bonuses or just RoF 2) EXP is a great damage type to deal because of the prevalence of armor tankers in pvp. While minnie raw dps may be low effective dps is great on armor, and phased plasma / EMP are good on shields. Compare that to Amarr dealing limited to EM / therm, minnie has it easy. Also to whoever said minnie can't tank, well it depends on the ship, Maelstrom has an amazing tank, same with the Claymore / Sleip. That said I think minmatar are the most balanced race, they're perfectly fine. Gallente though... The ships with Both Rof And Damage bonuses have 1 less turrets than their counterparts. Rupture vs Torax HUrricane vs Harbringer or Brutix Tempest vs Anything else. So the Both damage and Rof bonus means squat nothing. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Copine Callmeknau Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.26 16:55:00 - [81] Utterly clueless thread Lock for flamebait? ----- Originally by: Patch86 Depressing as hell though. By the end, you feel like someone's eaten your kitten.
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.26 17:01:00 - [82] Edited by: Incantare on 26/06/2007 17:01:04 Quote: The ships with Both Rof And Damage bonuses have 1 less turrets than their counterparts. Rupture vs Torax HUrricane vs Harbringer or Brutix Tempest vs Anything else. So the Both damage and Rof bonus means squat nothing. It means autocannon dps isn't gimped after bonus. 25% increase in RoF is a 33% increase in damage, the equivalent of two exra turrets on a pest. And on top of that having two extra slots for heavy nos or missile launchers is an advantage. And the pest gets an extra slot compared to the other t2 BS to compensate for the double damage bonus. A mael with 800mm IIs can do over 1100 dps with hail and drones, Minmatar are certainly not gimped dps wise. What was your point again?
MotherMoon Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.06.26 17:03:00 - [83] this is reminding me of... NASCAR! ALL CARS MUST BE THE SAME!! rawr! stupid
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.26 17:35:00 - [84] Originally by: Incantare Edited by: Incantare on 26/06/2007 17:01:04 Quote: The ships with Both Rof And Damage bonuses have 1 less turrets than their counterparts. Rupture vs Torax HUrricane vs Harbringer or Brutix Tempest vs Anything else. So the Both damage and Rof bonus means squat nothing. It means autocannon dps isn't gimped after bonus. 25% increase in RoF is a 33% increase in damage, the equivalent of two exra turrets on a pest. And on top of that having two extra slots for heavy nos or missile launchers is an advantage. And the pest gets an extra slot compared to the other t2 BS to compensate for the double damage bonus. A mael with 800mm IIs can do over 1100 dps with hail and drones, Minmatar are certainly not gimped dps wise. What was your point again? yes.. means only that they have not gimped damage after using they 2 bonuses for that. While other races need only 1 bonus for that and have another nice bonus for something else. Very few minmatar ships have GOOD dps (specially when you remember they fight in deep falloff). Their only good assset is chance of selecting damage type.. but that is only available on T1 ammo and on very limited level. Nothing compared to caldari capability of choosing damage type. Sayng minmatar have high dps is insane! If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kedor Minmatar Universal Army	Posted - 2007.06.26 17:44:00 - [85] What people fly is a good way to analyze the prefered ship. This also translate into what people think is the best ship, because people want to have the best. It¦s in our nature to try and be tougher/meaner/better than our competition. These statistics are taken from the EON magazine(ship types): EON 2 - Top 10 most popular Cruisers (1 to 10) Thorax, Osprey, Caracal, Blackbird, Moa, Rupture, Maller, Vexor, Exequror and Omen EON 3 - Top 10 most popular Frigates (1 to 10) Kestrel, Rifter, Bantam, Condor, Merlin, Imicus, Probe, Executioner, Tristan and Punisher EON 6 - Top 10 most popular Battleships (1 to 8, No tier 3 and no Faction) Raven, Dominix, Megathron, Apocalypse, Scorpion, Armageddon, Tempest, Typhoon Now some numbers: EON 2 - Battleships in service Raven 14130, Apocalypse 12976, Megathron 10411, Dominix 7666, Scorpion 7537, Armageddon 7370, Tempest 5920, Typhoon 2393 EON 4 - Interdictors in service Flycatcher 1036, Eris 785, Heretic 637, Sabre 563 EON 7 - Tier-2 Battlecruisers in service Drake 10495, Myrmidon 5105, Hurricane 3626, Harbringer 2545 Omitted EON 3 Force Recon, to low numbers, and EON 5 Stealth Bombers, clear Manticore win with old fittings. Note: From EON 2 to EON 6 Mega and Domi passed the Apoc Conclusion: Most people tend to fly Caldari and Galente with Minmatar and Amarr way behind for these ship types. Some of these facts are old though, but it does give us a hint. I would really like to see some updated numbers.
BlackMoon Thrawn the Organ Grinder and Company	Posted - 2007.06.26 18:02:00 - [86] Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: Mangold Another nerf this and boost that thread..... Seriously, you obviously have no clue about minmatar ships. Have you tried blasterthron VS AC pest? Or a nos domi vs AC pest? Or a deimos vs munnin? Or a deimos vs Vaga? With 2 equally skilled pilots the only engagement the minmatar ship would win is the vaga vs deimos and that is because the vaga would warp out.... Get a clue. Nice you put a gallente ships.. we are talking about caldari and ammar being underpowered not gallente. READ Anyways vaga beats deimos easily eventually after it runs out of cap, its cal EXP ammo. Munnin would do a better job though. Gallente have best bs. Minimatar has best bc and lower overall. First there is no EXP ammo. There are ammo types that do some explosive damage combined with some other damage type, generally in the second half of our falloff while orbiting. what this means is Minmatar, more than any other race cannot be judged by theoretical damage alone. Second, in your op Originally by: MehTheTrader Speed, great dps, no cap guns?? that is just nuts. Increase damage on blasters and torpedos to compensate, or decrease damage on minimatar. you specifically mention Blasters and Torps while leaving out anything amarr related. Don't come back a few posts later and complain about people using gallente blaster boats as examples. Third, bar nothing shield tanked missile ships are the best in pve in the game. Caldari have them at every level. They also have Hybrid weapon ships (namely rails) which give them the best range for instant damage at every level. Sure they fill niche roles, but the same can be said of any race. Fourth, while the amarr have problems with omni armor tanks, of which there are alot I'll grant you, thats really their only problem. Everyone has fitting issues on certain ships. Amarr also get (arguably) the best Recons and Capitals. There are only 4 races of player ships in Eve. Someone is always going to be at the top and bottom. It's just to hard to completely balance all the ships in every race for pve and for pvp. Overall Minmatar are in 2nd or 3rd right now and either way I see no reason for a nerf.
prathe Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.06.26 18:34:00 - [87] i would ignore this thread entirely the entire premise is completely the product of lack of experience and skill this thread is more likely the product of my raven got ganked by a vaga while rating this guys has no facts , no figures , just a wandering circular arguments dancing around facts and shovelling $h*t
Kyrie Elaison GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.06.26 18:49:00 - [88] 3 pages for an obvious troll. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
General Xerxes Delta Omega Iota Inc. Breidablik	Posted - 2007.06.26 19:00:00 - [89] Originally by: William Hamilton (They are, RP-wise, supposed to be second only to gallente in dorne usage) No, RP-wise Caldari are the experts on Fighters. Their single man fighters were their biggest asset in the Gallente-Caldari war and these were then upgraded to Frigates when Drones made them obselete. Drones and Fighters aren't the same thing, despite using the same system. BTW, I'm not saying your idea is bad, just that their isn't any backstory support for it IIRC. It would be perfectly logical that the Caldari stole drone technology from the gallente and adpated it for their own uses, but do Caldari really need another slow, cap-free, multi-damage type weapon? Also, why do people always ignore the Caldari rail ships when they whine about them being sucky at pvp? The rokh is a very good fleet ship, or so I've heard(I only fly drone ships myself), and missiles are very effective up close and in small gangs with tacklers.
Watauga Minmatar The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.06.26 19:08:00 - [90] No race needs to be nerfed. Some races may need to be boosted. Every race have their advantages/disadvantages and so do their ships. That is one things that makes this game so fun. Deciding what role you need to fill in certain situations, you have to think about ship type and setup. I have been playing this character almost four years now and concentrated on minmatar for one or two years now, partly because it better to good at one race than average or poor at all races and partly I don't play enough to think about how to fly every ship in this game. I have crazy sp so I am going to fit ships in ways most can't so I have an advantage most don't. The only times I fly another race is to fulfill a role in fleet engagements that I can't in minmatar. For example, a lot of newer players want to pew pew and I don't really care so I fit for EW. I fly Caldari in that situation. I don't think Minmatar should be boosted in EW, although I wouldn't complain if that were to happen. It is just part of the game. Watauga

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