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Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.07.03 21:31:00 - [151] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Guillame Herschel flying a falloff-rigged Stabber with 2 falloff and 1 tracking rig + skills + 3% falloff implant = 20km falloff Tracking rig is quite pointless... Explain? Originally by: Ryysa Just fyi, everything has something called "opportunity cost", just because you got those parts for the rigs "free" (actually, your time is not free, so you did not get them free), doesn't make the rigs "free". I never said "free." I said "cheap." And since there is no module that boosts falloff, falloff rigs are cheap even at market prices. And they are a bargain when you're salvaging most of the ingredients anyway. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.03 21:45:00 - [152] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 03/07/2007 21:40:43 Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Guillame Herschel flying a falloff-rigged Stabber with 2 falloff and 1 tracking rig + skills + 3% falloff implant = 20km falloff Tracking rig is quite pointless... Explain? There are tonnes of other things to put there which are better... Quote: And they are a bargain when you're salvaging most of the ingredients anyway. See, this is where you are wrong. They are not a "bargain", there is no difference whether you buy them on the market and lose them, or if you build them yourself and lose them. Since if you built them yourself, then sold them, then bought them for the same price again, you would still lose exactly the same amount. It's like saying, you work for a month getting nothing, and then you get a car 5% cheaper, and you say "ooh this car was a bargain". No it wasn't, for something to be a bargain someone has to lose money. Anyway, this is economics, even though elementary, it is offtopic. EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.07.03 21:47:00 - [153] Originally by: Ryysa Explain? There are tonnes of other things to put there which are better... That's not really an explanation is it? -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Mr Bigglesworth Maza Nostra oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.07.03 21:48:00 - [154] Edited by: Mr Bigglesworth on 03/07/2007 21:47:54 Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: Morreia Originally by: Ogdru Jahad I see no mention of a vaga's potential nightmare. Nano curse. ( something i am training for ) sensor dampened and nossed to hell = no tank of any kind and now way to get out alive short of mates near by. Originally by: Antarus Lars Rule number 1 : Dont fight Huggins/Curses. From my experience both of those ships excell at killing vagas. When i fly my curse i have never even come close to getting killed by a Vagabond, as there cap is dead in seconds. Actually, the Vagabond can beat Nano-Damp Curses provided your starting distance is relatively low (on a gate, warping into a belt, etc), you can close the range quickly (easy as the Vagabond is much faster) and you use Phased Plasma + Hobgoblins (faction PP is much better). Hit your MWD and approach the Curse and it will drop very very quickly if you manage to get within it's damping range with your speed. Also, if there's a Nano-Damp Curse messing around in your local area/station, try fitting a MWD/Disruptor/Cap Booster/Sensor Booster on your Vagabond using PP and Hobgoblins. Neither of you have a tank but unlike the Curse your weapon system doesn't need to catch up with you first (the drones) before you start taking hits, and they rarely do when you're both going rather fast. qft so far i've run into 2 nano/damp curses solo, both times i came out on top, except i kept barrage loaded and had warrior II's. Its all about getting the situation right. Obviously they both may have been drunk/stoned/whatever, but they were both fully t2 fitted so draw your own conclusions
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.07.03 21:50:00 - [155] Originally by: Ryysa Quote: And they are a bargain when you're salvaging most of the ingredients anyway. See, this is where you are wrong. They are not a "bargain", there is no difference whether you buy them on the market and lose them, or if you build them yourself and lose them. I think it is an easier and.or more enjoyable task to get salvage parts than it is to get the isk to buy a rig. That's what I mean by cheap. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.03 21:51:00 - [156] Edited by: Ryysa on 03/07/2007 21:53:15 Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Ryysa There are tonnes of other things to put there which are better... That's not really an explanation is it? Sure it is, I assume I don't have to spoonfeed everything to you. It's quite pointless getting a stabber that costs 40m isk anyway, rather get 5 stabbers for that price. Especially at start. Regarding rigs, third rig can be poly (lolcost) or for example an aux thruster rig, in that case you'd fit a nano II in low, since you're not fitting polys... Originally by: Guillame Herschel I think it is an easier and.or more enjoyable task to get salvage parts than it is to get the isk to buy a rig. That's what I mean by cheap. The word "cheap" is not associated with this in any way or form. Time = Money, you spend x time to get x isk for rigs, you could sell them to gain profit for your time. The value of your time is set by current market price. By losing the rigs in pvp, they are not any cheaper or a "bargain" compared to buying them on the market. Saying "I mean this by saying this" doesn't really fit here, since I could come up with a random meaning for any of the words I know, and pretend that this word now means this. Just think about it logically for a second, if you can manage simple economics at all, it should make perfect sense. EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.07.03 22:10:00 - [157] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Ryysa There are tonnes of other things to put there which are better... That's not really an explanation is it? Sure it is, I assume I don't have to spoonfeed everything to you. It's quite pointless getting a stabber that costs 40m isk anyway I didn't spend 40m isk on it. I did however collect loot to reprocess to minerals and salvaged wrecks from missions to make several Stabbers and Ruptures and rigs to fit them, while also making isk from the missions themselves. I don't think I earned enough isk in that time to actually go out and buy the rigs and ships outright, but I could be mistaken on that point. Quote: ... rather get 5 stabbers for that price. Especially at start. I can see that if you make your isk exclusively from PvP and have to buy your ships off the market, then isk is what it's all about. Quote: Regarding rigs, third rig can be poly (lolcost) or for example an aux thruster rig, in that case you'd fit a nano II in low, since you're not fitting polys... Wow, speed rigs, what a revelation. I thought you were going to tell me something I hadn't thought of. Actually, I was hoping you would tell me why a tracking rig would not be effective or something like that. Do 180s and 220s already have enough tracking to hit anything I want to hit at the ranges I'm trying to fight at? If so, that would be an explanation. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Gamble Dakota Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 22:34:00 - [158] Edited by: Gamble Dakota on 03/07/2007 22:33:43 You guys forgot the part where the Vaga pilot has barrage and a falloff rig equipped and lollerpwns the crow from 20-23km away (who invariably is at a low transversal) and laughs all the way to the bank. On topic: Stay fast, and don't be afraid to run when things get hairy. ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: "Nir" There is no place for morality in EVE. I find the correct answer is rarely the truthful one.
Brendig Minmatar Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.03 22:42:00 - [159] You people, watch what you write on the forums, some people take it seriously: 2007.07.03 19:52 Victim: ********* Alliance: ******* Corp: *** Destroyed: Crow System: **** Security: 0.2 censored Destroyed items: Small Armor Repairer II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Rocket Launcher II Rocket Launcher II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Foxfire Rocket, Qty: 1466 (Cargo) Thorn Rocket, Qty: 28 ------------------- Feel free to fight my vagabond in a rocket crow.
happymappy Amarr Fallout.	Posted - 2007.07.03 23:07:00 - [160] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 03/07/2007 18:40:05 Originally by: Morreia Also another thing which will stop me attacking someone is if they have killed many crows setup similar to mine and I know it/they can prove it which kinda counts out ryysa again. fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail gtfo already... Rofl This thread made my day lmao. But yeah ryysa's little tip list was right on the mark gj i just jumped into my vaga and will be using your advise \/

Jake Stevens The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.07.04 00:09:00 - [161] Edited by: Jake Stevens on 04/07/2007 00:09:26 Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 03/07/2007 17:22:57 Originally by: Morreia Ryysa, to me you are no better than a day old noob because I have never seen you fight, seen a decent killmail from you or had a conversation with you. Actually you are the noob, because I'm clearly better than you are. Not to mention the tiny fact, that you could try to leave hisec in something more expensive than a t1 cruiser to meet me =) And I'd rather not have a conversation with you, unless the beer is on you. Morreia, you have no idea how many times you have been pwned in this thread. It is hilarious to watch someone so stupid make himself look even more stupid edit: on topic, the small list ryysa mentioned are pretty much the basic rules. Try avoid curse's aswell. Watch out for web drones, as they can be quite sneaky. If you can stay at 18km, you're pretty much safe from most things. Good luck on your vaga travels
alpha charlie Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.04 00:48:00 - [162] Originally by: Jake Stevens Edited by: Jake Stevens on 04/07/2007 00:09:26 Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 03/07/2007 17:22:57 Originally by: Morreia Ryysa, to me you are no better than a day old noob because I have never seen you fight, seen a decent killmail from you or had a conversation with you. Actually you are the noob, because I'm clearly better than you are. Not to mention the tiny fact, that you could try to leave hisec in something more expensive than a t1 cruiser to meet me =) And I'd rather not have a conversation with you, unless the beer is on you. Morreia, you have no idea how many times you have been pwned in this thread. It is hilarious to watch someone so stupid make himself look even more stupid Signed
Zak Kingsman A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.07.04 00:52:00 - [163] Edited by: Zak Kingsman on 04/07/2007 00:53:00 I do have one question, seeing as I see a lot of people talking about their t2 drones. Have you experimented w/ a web or drone instead? or is the damage output from the drones just too much to ignore for something like that?
king jks The Nine Gates Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.04 02:41:00 - [164] This thread wins. Needs moar Ryysa RageÖ though tbh.
Lore Isander Caldari Paisti	Posted - 2007.07.04 02:49:00 - [165] Originally by: Jake Stevens Edited by: Jake Stevens on 04/07/2007 00:09:26 Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 03/07/2007 17:22:57 Originally by: Morreia Ryysa, to me you are no better than a day old noob because I have never seen you fight, seen a decent killmail from you or had a conversation with you. Actually you are the noob, because I'm clearly better than you are. Not to mention the tiny fact, that you could try to leave hisec in something more expensive than a t1 cruiser to meet me =) And I'd rather not have a conversation with you, unless the beer is on you. Morreia, you have no idea how many times you have been pwned in this thread. It is hilarious to watch someone so stupid make himself look even more stupid Qft, totaly. --- How do I shot web?
Nalar Marnith Minmatar Tetranex Consolidated	Posted - 2007.07.04 05:08:00 - [166] Originally by: Guillame Herschel I didn't spend 40m isk on it. I did however collect loot to reprocess to minerals and salvaged wrecks from missions to make several Stabbers and Ruptures and rigs to fit them, while also making isk from the missions themselves. I don't think I earned enough isk in that time to actually go out and buy the rigs and ships outright, but I could be mistaken on that point. You didn't spend the 40m on it, but you put rigs worth 40m on it. You could have sold these rigs making you 40m. Same as if you picked up a domination web, lose it and you're out the ISK you could have sold it for. To the OP, definately go with stabbers first. It's like learning to fight in frigs then cruisers and BS. Cover the basics in a less capable ship and then move up, benefit being you lose less ISK (if you wtfoops) while learning.
Bacci Galu Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.07.07 07:53:00 - [167] Edited by: Bacci Galu on 07/07/2007 07:53:11 Originally by: Morreia I'm geussing though that this guy isn't going to spend that much money on his vagabond so put it this way... if HE in HIS vagabond meets ME in MY crow, he's going down. You personal flame as much as I do and EVE-O forums ain't exactly hard to acess on any computer, I don't carry EVE around with me though. My crow does more than 81 dps. And 3 or 4 wrecking shots... oh noes. What drugs are you smoking son, sure u can tackle a vagabond, but killing it, i would pay good money to watch that shaz. any person that flys a vagabond and get poped by a solo crow deserves to die and lose the ability to fly said vagabonds in future. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels - Tallan ([email protected])
Taanu	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:21:00 - [168] Been flying vaga's for a bit and got some good kills...sometimes use ecm drones instead of warrier II. Just wondered if any expx pilots had views on sacrificing dps for ecm in this way. Cheers. Taanu
Mr Bigglesworth Maza Nostra oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:19:00 - [169] Originally by: Taanu Been flying vaga's for a bit and got some good kills...sometimes use ecm drones instead of warrier II. Just wondered if any expx pilots had views on sacrificing dps for ecm in this way. Cheers. Taanu Situational, as always. If like me you like to roam, generally killing smaller things and taking on the occasional BS/Hac, then warriors are probably better for the added DPS. They help against tacklers, which you will undoubtedly run into if you like to roam into hostile systems. ECM drones are more suited to taking on larger more capable ships, like other vagabonds. Things that can actually hurt you 1on1.
Aceoil Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:26:00 - [170] More advice: Get on the test server and buy 100 vagabonds, and fight with them there till you are confident in what you are doing. 1.) It costs very little to outfit a ship @ 100 ISK / module 2.) You get a fight within 30 seconds every time you undock, rather than hunting on Tranquility 3.) You fly without fear, and you will try anything just cause it doesnt matter on the test server.

Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:59:00 - [171] Originally by: Nalar Marnith You didn't spend the 40m on it, but you put rigs worth 40m on it. You could have sold these rigs making you 40m. 40m isk in my wallet doesn't extend my falloff range nearly as well as 3 falloff rigs. Falloff rigs are better than 40m isk for this purpose. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
EinaruS Rage Academy oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.07.26 20:49:00 - [172] Edited by: EinaruS on 26/07/2007 20:50:51 Ryysa.. seriously why do you bother trying to school these idiots? you know they won't learn anything. as for the original poster. experience!!! most important thing when it comes to pvp. just practice. learn from your mistakes. vaga is a good ship with it's limits and it's strenghts you gotta find'em to squeeze everything out of it. btw most people that post on the forums are idiots and dont know anything. this may sound hipocratic/egotistical whatever some istic.. but it's the truth weather you accept it or not. - A finger...especially the middle one, is worth more than any amount of isk
Jovius Marginus Spartan Corp	Posted - 2007.07.27 01:07:00 - [173] Probably too late now but Morreia I would be happy to 1v1 you any day t2 fit no nos or web with my vaga. Feel free to eve-mail me in game if your interested Ill make sure to have Fraps going.
Kandread Minmatar KAOS. KA0S Theory	Posted - 2007.07.27 17:27:00 - [174] I killed a Vaga in my Slasher once....I got close enough for the rest of my gang to warp to me and blow him up...oh wait thats tackling. What inty's were really built for, my bad. Of course he killed me, but hey trading a 6m tackler for a T2/faction fitted Vaga 4tw. \o/ I fly a vaga now! Kandread "May your Clone not be updated and your ship un-insured & your wallet dry." - vladdy2 "I wish I was sexy. If I was sexy more people would keep me in the loop about these things. God I wish I was se
Isonkon Serikain Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.27 22:20:00 - [175] Originally by: Morreia And then you meet a short range crow who is faster than you and your drones, can web you and you can't hit them. And that's why there's a nos on a vaga... problem solved. Anyways, I've yet to find a crow with enough dps to break the passive tank on my vaga.
dan drorgar Minmatar ECP Rogues The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.07.28 00:37:00 - [176] Originally by: Morreia Edited by: Morreia on 03/07/2007 18:26:10 Meh, I had to log onto my account, have alot of kill mails to look through and was fun arguing with you before hand. Dude... Your face...


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