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Admiral Derooy
Caldari Caldari Special Operations Division
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Posted - 2007.07.03 00:10:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Admiral Derooy on 03/07/2007 00:09:52
Originally by: Caios Edited by: Caios on 02/07/2007 15:55:19
Those sites would be back in a month, unfortunatly. Even in this day and age, there are ways to dodge a dd fired by a legal titan. As long as the profit derived from potential sales outweighs the cost of going underground and popping up later in some new form, the supply side will always exist.
I doubt it, as normally in the telecommunication industry such things travel quickly, for example a lawsuit in germany will get info to Deutsche Telekom which again is the supplier for the conns of webhosters. Telekom is very keen on a "clean" appearance and they go against sites proven to be against the law very harsh. this includes also EULA infringements
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Nalar Marnith
Minmatar Tetranex Consolidated
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Posted - 2007.07.03 01:36:00 -
[32]
Simple solution, don't ban the sellers.
Everytime money goes out of the account of a known seller, zero it. Money can go in, but when it gets transfered out it disapears.
That'd learn all those lazy ****ers who buy isk.
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.07.03 02:07:00 -
[33]
Players complain about macroers/farmers.
CCP complains about the buyers.
Got priorities? CCP will happily ban the few buyers they catch because banned players make far more noise and cause publicity. "Don't buy ISK man! I got WTFPWNED!!!!!".
Banned farmers don't do/say anything, they just get another account (probably with the exact same billing info) and keep going.
So banning 5 player accounts has far more public effect than a thousand farmers, and costs CCP less in lost monthly revenues.
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Secy
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Posted - 2007.07.03 03:30:00 -
[34]
I don't really see the issue with isk sellers/buyers. CCP supports buying ISK through GTCs. Whether you buy from chinaman1 or CCP it doesn't add isk to the economy. CCP doesn't care if you use RL money for advantage in a game world. They just want you to do it through them. If CCP were to get rid of the supported GTC for isk transfers I would whole heartedly support getting rid of gold sellers/buyers. Like it is now there is no point to *****ing about them because if people couldnt buy isk through chinaman1 they would just buy through CCP. It is equally as bad for the in game world. Honestly, the people who sell GTCs for ISK should be thankful for the ISK sellers. If they didn't exist your GTCs wouldn't bring as much ISK.
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Tellenta
Gallente White-Noise Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.03 03:44:00 -
[35]
tbfh this reminds me of a little war that began in the 80's "the war on drugs". Eliminate the dealers, just made more dealers. Punish the users just made the jails full. In the end 20 some years later its exactly the same. now wipe direct real life equations from this concept and I think i understand the dilemma. Either way I'll continue shooting the farmers i can catch, i just pitty the person that needs to spend real life cash on isk, i mean really come on you dont even get high off it. Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie |
syphurous
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.03 03:51:00 -
[36]
FYI: Many sellers have E-Mail addresses and ICQ ID's posted with their sales.
Remember, clicking the adsense costs them money, just dont buy the isk. ______________________________
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Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.03 04:20:00 -
[37]
EvE takes time.
You can't power level so to speak.
Find the FARMERS ban them, keep it up for a few weeks, and a lot of the issue goes away. You can't bring in good money in a ibis as a rule.
My guess is they don't have anyone full time looking at this, and eve is just too damn big these days to do it 'when someone calls it to your attention'.
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IonHammer
Minmatar Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.03 04:34:00 -
[38]
well at 65USD or so per bill there are a few players who think that 2000USD for a mom aint bad value.
Me i will just stick to luck in the T2 bpo's
If thats your real life i'm very jealous - Petwraith |
Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.03 04:37:00 -
[39]
I've outlined the problem the best that I can. :)
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MonwrathDisortium
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.03 05:08:00 -
[40]
hahahaha, awesome song.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie |
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Filthy Pierre
Gallente Laughing Fox Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.03 06:48:00 -
[41]
What Tortun said.
It's almost impossible to stop ISK sellers and buyers. The "War on Drugs" is an good analogy as another poster mentioned.
All CCP need to do is to sell ISK as well as GTCs - it won't fix the problem of 1 day old players with a 10B ISK kitty but it would do a lot to shut down the ISK seller market.
Just make the ISK competitively priced (like, uh, lowest) and give people a monthly, non-accumulating quota that they are permitted to buy.
There'd still be that external market but it'd be far smaller than it is now.
Problem is, of course, that doing such a thing really does impact CCP's bottom line - but, conversely, it may be perfectly possible that the additional ISK sale income would more than make up for the farmers who dropped their accounts.
FP
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miskagirl
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Posted - 2007.07.03 07:01:00 -
[42]
How can anyone condemn ISK buyers in a game where the developers promote the buying of ISK provided it is with GTC's which lines ccp pockets with money? sorry makes no sense ISK buying is as much a part of eve it seems as equipping a MWD to pvp.
I think as usual everyone gets it wrong. It is easy to blame the buyer but the fact is the buyer does not ruin the game for you. It is the ultra agressive sellers, that spam chat, monopolize in game features etc...
Where do the exploiters fit into this? you know the ones who farmed broken complezes for so long money means nothing to them? Or to those lucky enough to abuse the t2 cartels?
I learned along time ago that unfortunately you just need to get over it. I used to love lineage2 but the farmers monoplizing everything ruined the game. You know what it was the buyer fault either, it was the balless GM's who refused to take agressive stances on all the macro users and auto play bots. At some point simply put if a character is only mining for more than 72 hours straight it should be enough to simply ban the account for cheating, be it macro/scripted bots, or sharing the account.
The free acounts don't exactly help in eve's case and now with the new bonus SP for new character you essentially got free accounts to abuse....
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miskagirl
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Posted - 2007.07.03 07:09:00 -
[43]
I would also take exception to the attitude that people who buy ISK are somehow evil or cheating to gain an upperhand. Not everyone is willing to give up life to play these silly games. You cheat me by living in moms basement playing 16 hours a day, an insurmountable obsticle for me to over come, with a zillion more advantages than some player spending a bit of cash to close the gap because they play 4 hours a week.
these games are not fair period I am not sure why people feel it is acceptable to gain unfair advantages by immense play time but if joe blow is smart enough to goto work where he makes enough money to cover the time you wanna waste in mindless skilless grinding of cash...somehow he is a cheater... Sorry you also cheat is he does, you know you cannot win if you play equal time to me so you give up life just to win at a silly game?
Want a fair game? you are only allowed max 10 hours a week game time ( or what ever the average is ) so when you and I meet we truly find out who is the better and mroe effecient and effective player with their time....
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.07.03 07:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: miskagirl I would also take exception to the attitude that people who buy ISK are somehow evil or cheating to gain an upperhand. Not everyone is willing to give up life to play these silly games. You cheat me by living in moms basement playing 16 hours a day, an insurmountable obsticle for me to over come, with a zillion more advantages than some player spending a bit of cash to close the gap because they play 4 hours a week.
these games are not fair period I am not sure why people feel it is acceptable to gain unfair advantages by immense play time but if joe blow is smart enough to goto work where he makes enough money to cover the time you wanna waste in mindless skilless grinding of cash...somehow he is a cheater... Sorry you also cheat is he does, you know you cannot win if you play equal time to me so you give up life just to win at a silly game?
Want a fair game? you are only allowed max 10 hours a week game time ( or what ever the average is ) so when you and I meet we truly find out who is the better and mroe effecient and effective player with their time....
Hello there ISK Buyer.
CONCORD has been notified.
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Chrysalis D'lilth
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Posted - 2007.07.03 07:38:00 -
[45]
Originally by: miskagirl I think as usual everyone gets it wrong. It is easy to blame the buyer but the fact is the buyer does not ruin the game for you. It is the ultra agressive sellers, that spam chat, monopolize in game features etc...
Wrong, its the ISK buyer that is the cause of all this. While i've no love for farmers, it never ceases to amaze me how many people genuinely (and mistakenly), think they are the cause of the problem.
Without anyone wanting to buy, there would be no market, no-one to sell too, thus the isk sellers would be wasting their time.
Its the fact there are people willing and wanting to buy isk that creates the market. I'm assuming you've heard of supply vs demand - without that, there would be no profit to make, no sweatshops etc.
The origions of any business are in a market need (or creating one), for a service or product, without that need, there is no market, and thus no business.
Buyers start the chain, and with them the buck stops.
(the funny thing to this is i know an isk buyer, who goes out of his way to grief farmers like he's on some crusade - the irony there, amazes me)
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Mama Hauler
Minmatar LDK Ultima Rati0
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Posted - 2007.07.03 07:52:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Mama Hauler on 03/07/2007 07:52:11 well, i'm pretty sure that ccp dont care about them, CCP is just making more expansions packs (walking in the stations? wtf? more lag?) and stuff to get more ppl into eve since the bigger part of veterans are leaving, but CCP are not doing anything to improve eve from inside.. like to make a group of devs, people or whatever who would have commands like /stealth /move etc, so they just could move around 0.0 systems and see how many isk farmers there're. I've wrote many pettions about isk farmers, including their names, after 2 weeks, they're still in the same system, 23/7 online and farming isks. Thats a bad sign CCP, more you wait the worst it gets.
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Jennai
The Silent Rage R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.03 07:52:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Secy I don't really see the issue with isk sellers/buyers. CCP supports buying ISK through GTCs.
you don't get GTC sellers spamming all the public trade channels with full screens of crap every 2 minutes, or stripmining belts in empire leaving nothing for legitimate miners.
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Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 07:57:00 -
[48]
The issue of isk sellers/buyers is similar to one of having hookers in your neighborhood, picking up people. They don't really hurt you specifically, but they sort of spoil the entire community and you have a right to be angry about it.
We want these people out of our community, CCP.
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.07.03 08:34:00 -
[49]
Originally by: miskagirl rant
The ETC does not give ccp any more money, they just let you pay for another ones acc and allow him to give you isk. (i personnally hate that system.)
THAT ha a lot less effect on the market than the miner bots that ruins mining for ordenary players or the mission running ones that injects an insanely ammount of isk into the economy.
if you feel like you cant compete with your 4h/week without buying isk then honestly GTFO!
yes, ccp should probably employ someone to work fulltime with hunting down isk buyers. and i would like to see them being banned too.
all i ever heard of is that they loose their money and, if they spent a good part of it, get a negative wallet balance
Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello!
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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H'attack
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Posted - 2007.07.03 09:32:00 -
[50]
A nice thing will be to enable player-based police..I'm shure that CCP will figure-it out a way to make this happen...eventually..
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Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 09:53:00 -
[51]
Originally by: miskagirl I would also take exception to the attitude that people who buy ISK are somehow evil or cheating to gain an upperhand. Not everyone is willing to give up life to play these silly games. You cheat me by living in moms basement playing 16 hours a day, an insurmountable obsticle for me to over come, with a zillion more advantages than some player spending a bit of cash to close the gap because they play 4 hours a week.
these games are not fair period I am not sure why people feel it is acceptable to gain unfair advantages by immense play time but if joe blow is smart enough to goto work where he makes enough money to cover the time you wanna waste in mindless skilless grinding of cash...somehow he is a cheater... Sorry you also cheat is he does, you know you cannot win if you play equal time to me so you give up life just to win at a silly game?
Want a fair game? you are only allowed max 10 hours a week game time ( or what ever the average is ) so when you and I meet we truly find out who is the better and mroe effecient and effective player with their time....
Take exception all you want. It is cheating. If you buy ISK you're a lame, weaksauce cheater.
If you don't like being called a cheater, don't cheat. It's not a difficult concept, even for someone who can produce such a wall of contradictory, self-justifying, self-centred rubbish.
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Thiet
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.03 10:39:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Curzon Dax I've outlined the problem the best that I can. :)
Sooo corny! |
Mangala Solaris
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.07.03 12:29:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Curzon Dax I've outlined the problem the best that I can. :)
Nice - downloaded now too :)
=================== -------
All of these stars... these vast worlds that remain out of reach. If I could, I would annex other planets. |
YaYa Bones
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Posted - 2007.07.03 12:42:00 -
[54]
'Im gonna loose my house over this game' ~ ISK BUYER
Pretty much sums up what I think of it
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Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.03 12:43:00 -
[55]
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: miskagirl I would also take exception to the attitude that people who buy ISK are somehow evil or cheating to gain an upperhand. Not everyone is willing to give up life to play these silly games. You cheat me by living in moms basement playing 16 hours a day, an insurmountable obsticle for me to over come, with a zillion more advantages than some player spending a bit of cash to close the gap because they play 4 hours a week.
these games are not fair period I am not sure why people feel it is acceptable to gain unfair advantages by immense play time but if joe blow is smart enough to goto work where he makes enough money to cover the time you wanna waste in mindless skilless grinding of cash...somehow he is a cheater... Sorry you also cheat is he does, you know you cannot win if you play equal time to me so you give up life just to win at a silly game?
Want a fair game? you are only allowed max 10 hours a week game time ( or what ever the average is ) so when you and I meet we truly find out who is the better and mroe effecient and effective player with their time....
Hello there ISK Buyer.
CONCORD has been notified.
Or seller, some of the isk spammers lately have had pretty good english skills.
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Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
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Posted - 2007.07.03 12:51:00 -
[56]
Originally by: miskagirl I lose at Eve
uh-huh
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Chi Canery
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Posted - 2007.07.03 12:59:00 -
[57]
Taking the candystore away from the children only harms the candyman.
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Granmethedon III
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:10:00 -
[58]
Problem with this is that there will always be somebody sad enough to part with cash for ISK. Whatever you introduce to the game, there's sadly always going to be ways to get around it.
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Wyehr
Shadow Of The Light R i s e
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Admiral Derooy Edited by: Admiral Derooy on 03/07/2007 00:09:52
Originally by: Caios Edited by: Caios on 02/07/2007 15:55:19
Those sites would be back in a month, unfortunatly. Even in this day and age, there are ways to dodge a dd fired by a legal titan. As long as the profit derived from potential sales outweighs the cost of going underground and popping up later in some new form, the supply side will always exist.
I doubt it, as normally in the telecommunication industry such things travel quickly, for example a lawsuit in germany will get info to Deutsche Telekom which again is the supplier for the conns of webhosters. Telekom is very keen on a "clean" appearance and they go against sites proven to be against the law very harsh. this includes also EULA infringements
Are you kidding?
No ISP is party to your alleged agreement with CCP (the EULA) and under any western judicial system that I'm aware of, they would be inviting a lawsuit if they took action against you based on a contract which may or may not exist, may or may not be valid, and that they sure as hell aren't part of.
[ 2007.03.18 18:45:59 ] (notify) Typhoon belonging to Gandolf self-destructs. |
ChipMo
Caldari The Rat Pack
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Posted - 2007.07.03 14:16:00 -
[60]
CCP want to stop people buying ISK, yet people can spend RL money on GTC's & sell them for ISK... it just seems so hypocritical.
$ -> ISK
$ -> GTC -> ISK
its both cheating imo.
Now, on to the macro farmers or whoever it is selling this isk, couldn't they just switch to spending the isk on GTC & trading those for RL money & be within the rules? Has to be the most bizzare system of any MMO I've played. -------------------------- RARR
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