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Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.04 17:51:00 -
[1]
Recently Adsense approached me with "reports" on how I could increase my revenue by not blocking so many links.
These reports are automated and are basicly telling me that several links which pay a lot of money are being blocked. I could simply make more money by unblocking them.
I have no intention what so ever as to unblock these people. Infact I've been continuing my war against ISK sellers by encouraging my users to report isk sellers to have them blocked.
Recently Google returned to me and told me that some of my clicks were fraudulent. I dont know what kind of clicks these are as they refused to release the information on what types of clicks were caught as "fraudulent". I'm guessing it can be either these types:
1. Myself clicking ISK seller and then having them blocked. Matching my IP to a click on the site to using Adsense administration tool to filter IPs.
2. My text under adsense advertising that says "report isk sellers" and users clicking ISK sellers and then having them emailed to me to be blocked.
3. Automated traffic generated by some other source to put me in a bad position.
I dont think number 3. is the case. Instead I contacted Google and explained my situation but they simply responded that all links must follow their guidelines. Do you think they have a policy against ISK-sales? Nope, I didnt think so either.
So I cant report those links as violating rules. Finaly the response I got from google simply told me that if they keep finding fraudulent clicks they may simply turn off my account. Okay? So they're threatening me now. I've already told them that I'd like to know what kind of clicks are fraudulent, but they still refuse to tell me. Weird.
So...
It's time that all EVE fansites put some preassure on Google Adsense. Sites that cant afford to not stand without adsense and still dont want to have to filter ISK sales all the time.
I think it's time that some of us fansites group together and ask Adsense to refuse ISK sellers ads. It's our sites and we should be able to decide what type of ads should be allowed on "EVE Online" sites.
One fansite may not be able to put preassure on Google Adsense, but if 10 or 15 community fansites who use adsense group together we can make them listen.
Or as we'd say in EVE. Lets gank them.
EVE PIRATE
ANDER! now posting in "orange" |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.07.04 17:57:00 -
[2]
The image in my mind is of that student in china who protested by standing in front of an approaching tank.
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Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:02:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Crumplecorn
The image in my mind is of that student in china who protested by standing in front of an approaching tank.
In other news. The ISK seller gets runover by tank.
EVE PIRATE
ANDER! now posting in "orange" |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:03:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ander
Originally by: Crumplecorn
The image in my mind is of that student in china who protested by standing in front of an approaching tank.
In other news. The ISK seller gets runover by tank.
Not quite the way I imagined it tbh.
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Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:05:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Ander
Originally by: Crumplecorn
The image in my mind is of that student in china who protested by standing in front of an approaching tank.
In other news. The ISK seller gets runover by tank.
Not quite the way I imagined it tbh.
I know you meant me vs google but still :)
I was thinking of two things to write. But it was funnier thinking of an ISK-seller getting runover..
Anyway, the other response I had is that Google probably makes couple hundred thousand dollars from all these "currency" ads on gamesites. There're more people than us EVE players who dont want them. Maybe other people would like to protest aswell?
EVE PIRATE
ANDER! now posting in "orange" |
Victor Valka
Caldari
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:06:00 -
[6]
I don't think it ended like that...
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Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Victor Valka
I don't think it ended like that...
No the student actually became famous through that picture and it changed the world. Now stop derailing my thread.
EVE PIRATE
ANDER! now posting in "orange" |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ander
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Ander
Originally by: Crumplecorn
The image in my mind is of that student in china who protested by standing in front of an approaching tank.
In other news. The ISK seller gets runover by tank.
Not quite the way I imagined it tbh.
I know you meant me vs google but still :)
I was thinking of two things to write. But it was funnier thinking of an ISK-seller getting runover..
Anyway, the other response I had is that Google probably makes couple hundred thousand dollars from all these "currency" ads on gamesites. There're more people than us EVE players who dont want them. Maybe other people would like to protest aswell?
In your communications with them, mention it is a content requirement that these adverts be disabled, in order of you to be linked from the site's main source of traffic (EVE-O).
That is, if they don't stop with the isk seller adds, your website will lose traffic.
That'll catch their attention. They probably think you're just being "picky"...
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Mona Lou
Essence Research
Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:15:00 -
[9]
Why should Google do that? Are you going to another ad company, which is filtering ISK sales? Oh there isn't any. Oh well. 
BTW, don't click on your own ads if you don't want to get warnings from Google.
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Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:16:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Ander
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Ander
Originally by: Crumplecorn
The image in my mind is of that student in china who protested by standing in front of an approaching tank.
In other news. The ISK seller gets runover by tank.
Not quite the way I imagined it tbh.
I know you meant me vs google but still :)
I was thinking of two things to write. But it was funnier thinking of an ISK-seller getting runover..
Anyway, the other response I had is that Google probably makes couple hundred thousand dollars from all these "currency" ads on gamesites. There're more people than us EVE players who dont want them. Maybe other people would like to protest aswell?
In your communications with them, mention it is a content requirement that these adverts be disabled, in order of you to be linked from the site's main source of traffic (EVE-O).
That is, if they don't stop with the isk seller adds, your website will lose traffic.
That'll catch their attention. They probably think you're just being "picky"...
I did. In my first communique I explicity told them EVE-Pirate is a fansite for an MMO called EVE Online produced by CCP hf. Their policy dictates that to be listed as an official fansite on their community list you may not display advertising for ISK / Currency sellers.
The reponse I got from one of their staff people were that "All AdWord-advertise must follow AdWords rules.." "if you think anyone violates these rules please report to [email protected]" (rough translation from Swedish).
Now.. I read through these rules and nowhere do they state that currency sales are forbidden.
In the next reponse I'll be mentioning to them that "ALL" EVE Online fansites who wish to remain as an official fansite will have to remove ISK ads. Meaning that if Adsense doesnt help us filter these ads we may very well have to switch to other revenue sources where we can block ISK sellers more efficiently without violating the ad-providers EULA.
Still... Adsense sucks.
Arent there anyother fansites out there who'd like to join in this revolt vs ISK sellers?
EVE PIRATE
ANDER! now posting in "orange" |
Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mona Lou
Why should Google do that? Are you going to another ad company, which is filtering ISK sales? Oh there isn't any. Oh well.
BTW, don't click on your own ads if you don't want to get warnings from Google.
Feel free to report those ISK-sellers then and I wont have to click it.
Google told me they have a review tool, but at the moment the review tool sucks as it's not possible to see ads which match terms on a dynamicly updated website. It's only possible to block an isk-seller AFTER it has started displaying the ad.
EVE PIRATE
ANDER! now posting in "orange" |
Mona Lou
Essence Research
Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ander
Feel free to report those ISK-sellers then and I wont have to click it.
Google told me they have a review tool, but at the moment the review tool sucks as it's not possible to see ads which match terms on a dynamicly updated website. It's only possible to block an isk-seller AFTER it has started displaying the ad.
I don't understand why you have to click on them? You block URLs, and Google ads show target URL (well most of them, only few formats don't). Either way, if you click on ad to block it, it is fraud click, unless you called Google and told them to get money for these clicks back.
Anyway, I am not sure what you want Google to do - add new filtering options just becouse few fansites of one small online game don't want certain ads? Sorry but I can't see that happening, no matter how many sites you will group together.
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Mona Lou
Essence Research
Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Mona Lou on 04/07/2007 18:30:00
I just visited your site and you are using one of those few formats which doesn't show URLs. However you can still see the URL if you view source code of Google ad (it is IFRAME, but you should be able to get source code by right click).
URL for each ad is in this DIV:
< div class=adu >www.someurl.com< /div >
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Chi Canery
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:46:00 -
[14]
I hope there can indeed be a united front on finally doing something about isk sellers, Some people do make profit from these banners on their sites for themselves, not just to provide funds for the site, so hard to believe you are going to get too much support from them.
I do have to keep saying this though. The isk banner advertisers are the same people who spam the game to death, and so cannot see how they are tollerated in one way and so complained about in another, sometimes by the same person!
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Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.04 18:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mona Lou
Edited by: Mona Lou on 04/07/2007 18:30:00
I just visited your site and you are using one of those few formats which doesn't show URLs. However you can still see the URL if you view source code of Google ad (it is IFRAME, but you should be able to get source code by right click).
URL for each ad is in this DIV:
< div class=adu >www.someurl.com< /div >
The point of this thread wasnlt actually to find ways to see links of iskseller. But yes I can do that until adsense makes it possible to block the type of ads which deal with isk-sellers rightaway.
Now, I do hope more fansites will join the revolt vs ISK ads.
EVE PIRATE
ANDER! now posting in "orange" |
Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
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Posted - 2007.07.04 19:15:00 -
[16]
google will ban you if you click ads on your site.
you are going to have to rely on other people clicking the ads and informing you of where they ended up.
Not a bad solution as it does a number of things:
costs the isk seller
generates income for you (and presumably none for the isk seller)
gets the isk seller blocked.
Note also google frowns on sites asking people to click through on ads, so word your request carefully when it comes to asking for information on isk sellers so you can block them.
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Jeb Coolness
Esophorics Anonymous
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Posted - 2007.07.04 19:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ander
Originally by: Mona Lou
Edited by: Mona Lou on 04/07/2007 18:30:00
I just visited your site and you are using one of those few formats which doesn't show URLs. However you can still see the URL if you view source code of Google ad (it is IFRAME, but you should be able to get source code by right click).
URL for each ad is in this DIV:
< div class=adu >www.someurl.com< /div >
The point of this thread wasnlt actually to find ways to see links of iskseller. But yes I can do that until adsense makes it possible to block the type of ads which deal with isk-sellers rightaway.
Now, I do hope more fansites will join the revolt vs ISK ads.
I think you may be going about this the wrong way. Instead of asking Google to help you circumvent their policies, why not ask CCP to make an exception for Google Adsense, or similar Ad Systems that do not allow direct control over content (outside of competitor ads)?
Google Adsense brings in approximately $25/month on disabled Griefwatch boards, which is less than 1/4 of the monthly operating costs. I can ask for donations, but because Griefwatch is a paid service, people see little point in doing so. Also, I can't ask people to pay real money for Griefwatch killboards or CCP would forbid me from advertising Griefwatch or any related service or feature on the forums ever again. Google is helping me keep my website online. CCP is not.
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Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.04 20:06:00 -
[18]
I just went and clicked on all your ads, including the ISK seller one, so hopefully they all have to pay you $0.03. :)
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Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.04 22:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jeb Coolness
Originally by: Ander
Originally by: Mona Lou
Edited by: Mona Lou on 04/07/2007 18:30:00
I just visited your site and you are using one of those few formats which doesn't show URLs. However you can still see the URL if you view source code of Google ad (it is IFRAME, but you should be able to get source code by right click).
URL for each ad is in this DIV:
< div class=adu >www.someurl.com< /div >
The point of this thread wasnlt actually to find ways to see links of iskseller. But yes I can do that until adsense makes it possible to block the type of ads which deal with isk-sellers rightaway.
Now, I do hope more fansites will join the revolt vs ISK ads.
I think you may be going about this the wrong way. Instead of asking Google to help you circumvent their policies, why not ask CCP to make an exception for Google Adsense, or similar Ad Systems that do not allow direct control over content (outside of competitor ads)?
Google Adsense brings in approximately $25/month on disabled Griefwatch boards, which is less than 1/4 of the monthly operating costs. I can ask for donations, but because Griefwatch is a paid service, people see little point in doing so. Also, I can't ask people to pay real money for Griefwatch killboards or CCP would forbid me from advertising Griefwatch or any related service or feature on the forums ever again. Google is helping me keep my website online. CCP is not.
Asking for an exempt of ISK ad policies by CCP isn't a solution either. The rules are there cause people abused the system too much in the past. People got their fansites registered and simply smacked on a lot of unfiltered adsense.
A while back I started a thread where I complained about some fansites that were running adsense did not filter their lists at all. They would have ISK selling ads display for prolonged periods.
Yes, you could argue that people will not buy ISK. but the fact remains people DO buy isk. Some poor sucker is bound to follow through on an isk ad and buy the isk. Then risk getting caught by CCP and have all the isk removed or possibly banned.
I would never want to be indirect cause of someone getting banned for buying isk.
I'll be investigating other means of getting ad revenues. Been looking at text-link-ads from another source which seem promising.
So no other fansites would like to ask google to block isk sellers? I cant believe this :) No takes?
EVE PIRATE
ANDER! now posting in "orange" |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.04 22:55:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Patch86 on 04/07/2007 22:54:01
Originally by: Ander
So no other fansites would like to ask google to block isk sellers? I cant believe this :) No takes?
[/orange]
If I had a fansite, I would 
Maybe you should try contacting them directly? Go to any EVE fansite, and I'm sure theres a "contact us" link somewhere.
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Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.07.04 22:57:00 -
[21]
Right-click the links, copy, paste into Notepad and strip off everything except the URL at the end of it. The real URL starts after 'adurl='. This is how I used to look at the sites without clicking them myself when I ran Google ads.
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Mollernak
Cassus Beli
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 01:28:00 -
[22]
If I had a site, I would... Unfortunately I don't...
Just know you are fighting the good fight....
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Ekscalybur
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Posted - 2007.07.05 01:43:00 -
[23]
Google's stance on this is funny.
The funny part is trying to picture an ad agency telling NBC that it has no control over what ads they broadcast. And that ad agency is paying NBC a helluva lot more money than Google has paid anybody.
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Pyrostasis
Caldari
PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2007.07.05 04:36:00 -
[24]
Im not cool enough to have a fansite... but I do support you in your efforts.
Kill the buggers!
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Boonaki
Caldari
Knights of Chaos
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.07.05 07:10:00 -
[25]
I haven't seen an ad in a long time since I installed Adblock Plus for Firefox.
Fear the Ibis of doom!
113 |
Ashraaf
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.07.05 09:10:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ashraaf on 05/07/2007 09:09:54
Hello Ander
I'm volunteer on a fan site call http://www.jeuxonline.info/
We use Google Ad-sense and block (asap) every site who sell isk (or other gold site)
We don't have any problem with them about reporting or blocking site
Try to contact me Ig (tonight) and i get info about how we use ad(non)sense
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Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 09:24:00 -
[27]
had to remove all adsense from my sites
sucks cause before adsense just paid the hosting fee for all the domains hosted on my server. i tried every freaking way to remove isk sales ad. but there are just too many companies. you can ban individual companies from advertising on your site (there is the option in adsense config), but another pops up every 2 days
so in the end... well it just costs me more money now 
i feel for ya there eh
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.07.05 09:45:00 -
[28]
Hi Ander.
It's a noble cause, but is it a waste of time? Google are unlikely to stop hosting ads just because some people don't like them, the only thing that could do that is possibly a message from CCP or legal action. I run eve-tanking.com and I use google ads unfiltered. If we all co-operated, we could keep a long list of isk ads to block with only an hour a week maximum each. It's probably not really all that difficult if you get a few sites in on it.
I tried blocking all the isk ads once. I spent an entire week doing it at about an hour a day, they just kept popping up with new sites every few days. When I finally practically got rid of all of them temporarily, the remaining ads were for stupid unrelated things like model ship building kits, the click through rate dropped to practically zero and the cash per click made me less cash in a projected month than I found down the back of the sofa. It just wasn't financially feasible to run a website and domain while blocking all the relevant high-paying ads.
Can you come up with some better ways to pay for hosting other than out of our own pockets?
Eve-Tanking.com - Nobody reads this slogan. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.07.05 10:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: barvo
The answer "well it pays for my website" is about as lame as it gets, I'm afraid. You'd allow drug dealers to advertise on your site would you, if it paid the rent? What does that make you? A cheap *****. Sorry, but it's true.
Are you really equating isk sellers to drug dealers? Ignoring the fact that adverts for narcotics on a website would get it shut down, you're equating the eve EULA with realworld law and the two aren't comparable. The moral issues involved in not blocking an isk advert on a website is quite different to the issues involved in purposely allowing a criminal to advertise narcotics that could ruin people's lives on your website.
Eve-Tanking.com - Nobody reads this slogan. |
Del ReyII
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.05 10:52:00 -
[30]
Nyphur, your site gets mentioned in e-on, your write articles for e-on, you advertise your site on the eve-o forums through your sig, your a respected member of the community and you admit that isk-ads on your site
generate you revenue that keeps your site going. This obviously means that people who visit your site are attracted by these ads and buy isk for $, Enabling the macro-miners, ratting farmers etc to continue their trade.
There is a word for this, it's Hypocrite.
Great job, sir. Bravo.
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