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Lady Beauvoir	Posted - 2007.07.05 12:04:00 - [31] Originally by: Col Kaos The balance has been severely lost within EVE as everything seems to be PvP focused more and more at the expense of all the other aspects. Patch after patch this seems to become more the case. No wonder tech 2 ships are becoming more and more expensive as hardly anyone can afford to produce them. Manufacture and research has become so difficult and unprofitable no-one bothers anymore and just goes pirate. I've spent most of the last 3 years I have subscribed to EVE building up my science, research and industry skills for what reason? It's so pointless now. Manufacturing and trading are the hardest aspects in this game. And this is coming from a PVPer. Manufacturing and trading are cutthroat PVP arenas where every ISK you earn is taken from cold fingers of your opponent. It's not just about buying stuff, building items and then selling them in Jita; you need to consider where to buy, how to buy, where to sell and how to eliminate competition. That's hard, and I love PVP in all it's forms, both in the market and in space, violating the boats. My advice: consider your career in EVE a challenge. Always try to surpass yourself, consider how you could do better, plan ahead, make backup plans, strive to win at all costs. When you persevere where your opponent quits you will feel so good that it's hard to describe. :)
Sharl Hawkeye	Posted - 2007.07.05 12:07:00 - [32] EVE was always a PVP game. You can die anywhere and at any time. Not so much in Empire today but 4 years go Empire was such "free" land as the 0.0. No sentries or Concord. Imho with the latest attacks in high sec space, EVE found it's way back to the good old days. One thing remaining to make it better. Warp scrambling should not be an offence in empire until the target gets damage New era for pirates.
Miyamoto Uroki Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.05 12:09:00 - [33] Originally by: Firkragg CCP just fixed a problem. Level 4 missions let you make nearly as much in highsec as you can in 0.0. This is obviously not right so they lowered the rewards of level 4 missions. Now you have two choices, you can do level 4 missions in high sec and be completely safe and make a little less money. Or you can take the risk and do missions in low sec for the greater rewards. Second that. Eve got a quite big problem: people were earning too much iskies. How can i say that? Just look at all the capital ships out there. They meant to be not a common force.. i mean, alliances should have used them, not the average joe in empire. Or another example: faction battleships, or the sheer amount of faction modules. So ccp needed an isk sink. On all fronts, of course. What happened?: - they nerfed 0.0 high ore mining by introducing drone regions. - player trading doesn't need to be nerfed, as its totally depending on your cleverness whether you make a fortune or not. nothing to do with game mechanics - they nerfed T2 production by introducing invention. Now it's also totally player controlled system. And guess what: mission income became way too much, due to ever easier missions with rigged ships, all tech2 fitting etc. So they now nerfed missions. Perfectly balanced and had to be done. Imho missions are too easy, that's true. Most of them. And i don't think it's right to leave some lvl 4 high quality agents in high sec. They have to be moved into low sec altogether. And make low sec encounters and exploration content worth it. Sure, there are lots of things that appear to be broken, or not very well balanced. But we are on a good way to achieve that, from my point of view. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face
paaaulotwo	Posted - 2007.07.05 12:19:00 - [34] You missed out the poor customer support >_>
Lady Beauvoir	Posted - 2007.07.05 12:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Sharl Hawkeye EVE was always a PVP game. You can die anywhere and at any time. Not so much in Empire today but 4 years go Empire was such "free" land as the 0.0. No sentries or Concord. Imho with the latest attacks in high sec space, EVE found it's way back to the good old days. One thing remaining to make it better. Warp scrambling should not be an offence in empire until the target gets damage New era for pirates. Bad idea. The instant this would be implemented we would have frigate pilots harassing freighter and transport pilots by scrambling them and preventing them from moving anywhere unless they paid a ransom. The only way to escape this would be to petition the offender for harassment, like you'd do against a group of shuttles dropping jetcans all around a freighter and demanding a ransom in high-sec.
Miyamoto Uroki Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.05 12:32:00 - [36] Edited by: Miyamoto Uroki on 05/07/2007 12:35:02 I agree that high sec suicide killing industrials and freighters in particular, is something that needs to be addressed. It's generating for sure no fun for the players. On the other side, i would say to pilot a freighter should only be allowed to non-npc corp chars (though i guess it's almost impossible to implement a routine for that). mentioning controllable space: ccp listed the idea of Viceroys in empire space on their drawing board. Hope they are pushing that forward after the implemention of factional warfare. Sounds great fun. And for the bigger alliances that hold most of 0.0 space. It's pretty much balanced these days. Have a look at the map. I remember the days when there were no official alliances, and these alliances hold much bigger areas. The north is scattered, the south not yet, but it's always an ongoing cycle. oh, almost forgot to mention: while player ships are getting stronger and stronger due to better fitting, skills, rigs and implants, there is one entity that needs to be upgraded. the damn gate and station sentry guns. can't be that you can camp the sentrys in low sec all day long, or sit in front of a station with your Nighthawk and kill everything that docks off and STAY there. Sentry guns need to be devastating, as they were in the past. Make it possible to withstand their firepower for like 20 seconds in a fully tanked battleship, but not more.. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.05 12:46:00 - [37] Originally by: Sharl Hawkeye Warp scrambling should not be an offence in empire until the target gets damage New era for pirates. That would be griefing. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
genome 77 Gallente Los Gordos	Posted - 2007.07.05 12:51:00 - [38] Originally by: Lady Beauvoir Originally by: Sharl Hawkeye EVE was always a PVP game. You can die anywhere and at any time. Not so much in Empire today but 4 years go Empire was such "free" land as the 0.0. No sentries or Concord. Imho with the latest attacks in high sec space, EVE found it's way back to the good old days. One thing remaining to make it better. Warp scrambling should not be an offence in empire until the target gets damage New era for pirates. Bad idea. The instant this would be implemented we would have frigate pilots harassing freighter and transport pilots by scrambling them and preventing them from moving anywhere unless they paid a ransom. The only way to escape this would be to petition the offender for harassment, like you'd do against a group of shuttles dropping jetcans all around a freighter and demanding a ransom in high-sec. That would be loads of fun, and not harassment, just plain simple piracy. -------------------------------------------------- Killing you was a simple matter of economics. Your gear was worth more than the ammunition used to attain it, thus profit is born.
Sha4d13	Posted - 2007.07.05 13:22:00 - [39] No- it would be griefing. Unless others were instantly given kill rights on the scramblers, so a fleet supporting the freighter could do something about it...
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 13:30:00 - [40] It's never griefing. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(

Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 13:41:00 - [41] Edited by: Grimpak on 05/07/2007 13:41:21 crumplecorn wins eve with his sigs tbh. oh and yes, that's the answer to your post (OP's one). --- truth about EVE: Originally by: Cpt Branko "Guns are fine, boost players"
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.07.05 13:42:00 - [42] you forget to say FIX THIS NOW OR AM LEAVING WITH MY 17 FRIENDS/ALTS! snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Dakota Phonic New Light KnightRaven Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 13:54:00 - [43] the OP obviously isnt playing the same game as me, last time I checked all T2 ships had dropped to serious lows. Also, these pirates you talk about on missions, are they little red crosses? Cause.....em.....they are NPC they are meant to find you, perhaps u need a better tank. RECRUITMENT THREAD http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518172
Cardealer	Posted - 2007.07.05 13:57:00 - [44] Originally by: Lady Beauvoir Originally by: Sharl Hawkeye EVE was always a PVP game. You can die anywhere and at any time. Not so much in Empire today but 4 years go Empire was such "free" land as the 0.0. No sentries or Concord. Imho with the latest attacks in high sec space, EVE found it's way back to the good old days. One thing remaining to make it better. Warp scrambling should not be an offence in empire until the target gets damage New era for pirates. Bad idea. The instant this would be implemented we would have frigate pilots harassing freighter and transport pilots by scrambling them and preventing them from moving anywhere unless they paid a ransom. The only way to escape this would be to petition the offender for harassment, like you'd do against a group of shuttles dropping jetcans all around a freighter and demanding a ransom in high-sec. I think that's kind of the idea
Andreas Kallesoee Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.05 14:04:00 - [45] @ grimpak I STILL BLAME YOU
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 14:14:00 - [46] Originally by: Andreas Kallesoee @ grimpak I STILL BLAME YOU I BLAME GRIMPAK TOO! --- truth about EVE: Originally by: Cpt Branko "Guns are fine, boost players"
Ladyah Liandri A GmbH	Posted - 2007.07.05 14:23:00 - [47] Edited by: Ladyah Liandri on 05/07/2007 14:23:25 Mission probing facts: - No "noob" as the OP mentioned can do this in respect to the skill requirements - If the missioner is in 4 AU or lesser range then the OP is right: you can easily be probed with exploration probes. But that takes time (at least 2 minutes) and skills. - If you have to use normal scan probes then probing a mission runner is really a pain but you can get lucky from time to time. - Probes appear on your scanner. So if you have to run missions in low-sec but neglect your scanner you deserve every punishment executed upon you. To sum it up: - you don't have to fly missions in low sec - even if someone is a very skilled prober you will almost always have enough time to a.) detect probes and b.) avoid pew-pew. So no need to change anything IMHO.
Liisa Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.05 14:31:00 - [48] Originally by: Ladyah Liandri Edited by: Ladyah Liandri on 05/07/2007 14:23:25 Mission probing facts: - No "noob" as the OP mentioned can do this in respect to the skill requirements - If the missioner is in 4 AU or lesser range then the OP is right: you can easily be probed with exploration probes. But that takes time (at least 2 minutes) and skills. - If you have to use normal scan probes then probing a mission runner is really a pain but you can get lucky from time to time. - Probes appear on your scanner. So if you have to run missions in low-sec but neglect your scanner you deserve every punishment executed upon you. To sum it up: - you don't have to fly missions in low sec - even if someone is a very skilled prober you will almost always have enough time to a.) detect probes and b.) avoid pew-pew. So no need to change anything IMHO. As a player who has spent a lot of time scanning down mission runners, a few facts: I only got quick scans when I was within 2 au of the target. Range matters, it decreases your scan strength. I only got within 2 au after about 3 weeks of scanning a single system day in and day out and there were still mission runners who had missions more than 20 au from any celestial object. Even getting a bookmark within 10 au of these was a challenge. Luck plays a big part. So do drones. I could be within 1 au of a target and need 3 probes to get a signal, but I could also get a signal first scan on a 20 au probe at 15 au range. The people who do scan down mission runners normally take pride if getting better and better at it. We try and have a comprehensive net of bookmarks in order to get quick scan results. The most extreme example I have seen was someone who had in excess of 250 bookmarks for a single system. The most I had was 150. Many of these, especially those far of the plane of the system are hard won, normally with 10 or 20 au probes and hours of scanning. We do not snap our fingers and have the bookmarks we need, we work for them, please consider this. ---------------------------------- Currently pursuing a "deviant playstyle."
The Snowman Gallente Black Mithril Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.05 14:35:00 - [49] Unfortunatly I dont think CCP will address the issues raised here, how many posts like this have there been about deadspace scanning with nothing changed?.. same with drones, for years they have been broken.. how many more years of complaints will they ignore before fixing it or at least telling us that they wont? I Kind of agree about the LP Stores, they seem kind of pointless, even just after a few weeks, most items can be bought for the same price on the market as you can pay at the store except for a few items, but time will soon level this out. I do think though its better than the random method previously.. but they do need to be balanced! rather than ask for ISK and LP they should be asking for Commodoties, trade items or other such things! not just ISK, it seems CCP are running out of imagination =[ I dont think that Eve is "Going down hill" however! There are a great many improvments, Each time I come back to Eve I enjoy it a bit more.. I just get frustrated with CCP when even after 18 months the same things are still not fixed! to make it worse they appear to be pouring their efforts into expensive tv programs, card games and font sizes.
Lickity Split Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.05 14:45:00 - [50] Eve is a pvp game. On the other hand it should have more research, science, industrial things that are fun for people who enjoy that sort of thing. With out industial stuff the pirates and pvpers have nothing to shoot at. Without the pirates and pvpers the industrialist have nothing to build for. As for deadspace being dangerous, if you have a group of pirates harrassing you, hire mercs. Or use your corpmates or local friends and set traps for them. Pirates dont like getting beat at their own game and it might make them a bit more careful on jumping on you and your friends. Hell you might enjoy killing them.

Dracborne Mining Bytes Inc. Mass Destruction.	Posted - 2007.07.05 15:06:00 - [51] Originally by: Col Kaos No wonder tech 2 ships are becoming more and more expensive as hardly anyone can afford to produce them. You do understand that this simple qoute basically burns ANY other credible statements in your post. When Hulks, which are Tech II mining barges btw, go from being ~620mil to ~135 mil and HAC's like the Vaga can be found for ~100, simply from the introduction of invention, I'd say the trend is that Tech II stuff is getting MUCH, MUCH cheaper. The only real recent Tech II ship price spike was for all the stealth bombers due to the introduction of bombs, though they've come back down to reasonable prices. That can be chalked up to good old capitalism. O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti tOde keimetha tois keinon rhTmasi peithomenoi.
Vitrael Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.05 15:32:00 - [52] Sounds like somebody got probed out and ganked in lowsec and now he's complaining... Think of it this way. We once sat a recon and a second prober outside a Tempest in a mission using 4AU probes every 30 and 120 seconds for ten minutes with no hits. It's NOT too easy to scan for missioners. Besides, any missioner who knows what he's doing will check his scanner if he's in lowsec to make sure no one is probing him. You have no idea how many times I've escaped ganking because I saw a probe on scanner and a gang in local. Play smart, or quit and give me your stuff. ----------
Kain De'Stroi Epic.	Posted - 2007.07.05 16:13:00 - [53] Edited by: Kain De''Stroi on 05/07/2007 16:21:45 Originally by: Col Kaos 1. Scanning into deadspace missions. This has become so easy any noob with a scan probe can find a player deadspace mission with total ease [[/quote If you are who i think you are- we are not noobs, that was a 40m sp char whit maxxed skills for the task that scanned you down whit a pretty expensive scaning setup and several days had been spent to make sure we could cover every spot in the system. yes, its pretty easy to scan people down if you prepare right, but not something any n00b could do. ----------------
Admiral Himerias	Posted - 2007.07.05 16:31:00 - [54] I agree with the author about standings. As someone who has played the game for almost two months I am surprised that it takes so long to go up in standings. I have literally done HUNDREDS of lvl 1 and 2 missions in the hopes I can get to lvl 3. And I have trained my social and connection skills to lvl 3 as well. But its still so difficult to get to lvl 3 missions and my standing is only half what I need and in some cases 25% of what I need to see some lvl 3 agents. I am not a pvper. I just kill people that prevent me from carebearing.
Ga'len Amarr Wandering Druid	Posted - 2007.07.05 16:37:00 - [55] Originally by: Victor Valka Funny. PvP-ers cry that everything is done for PvE and they are getting shafted. PvE-ers cry that everything is done for PvP and they are getting shafted. From that we can deduce that balance has been reached. Kudos CCP. It's these "Moments of Buddhist Enlightenment" that make reading all the posts on these forums worth the effort. BTW, love the sig!! Yes, I am the exception that defines the rules.
Vorketh Mordanil Amarr Brotherhood of Acquisitions	Posted - 2007.07.05 16:48:00 - [56] I haven't noticed it mentioned that without PVP, there would be no really functional economy. PVP is the greatest source of lost ships, and I'm going to guess that ad hoc PVP is probably responsible for more ship losses in total than fleet battles. The loss of a ship, every time, period, creates a brand new demand for at least 1 ship, and a handful of modules. Every. Time. Without this, the only people buying ships are first timers and those who actually manage to get popped against NPCs. So before you go knocking PVP, remember that without it, this game would fall apart, and not due to a lack of fun, but because all the mechanics as you know it would fail in a chain reaction: Supply drops off dramatically-->Mining becomes highly unprofitable as the prices of modules sink-->Industry suffers - people make less stuff-->Harder to find the modules you need--> etc. If PVP goes away, the market equilibrium will drop so low that ratting in a 0.6 is likely to make you more money, if you count reprocessing the small modules. Nothing in this game occurs in a vacuum (pardon the pun there), and every aspect is both reliant upon and contributant towards every other aspect. V --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miss Anthropy School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.07.05 17:31:00 - [57] Originally by: Na'Kunni leave EVE then But then he wouldn't have anything to be unhappy about. You clearly don't understand the nature of the malcontent. NERF AMARR!
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.07.05 17:31:00 - [58] I shall throw random quotes at the OP in hopes that one causes wrecking damage. Maybe one of them will actually be applicable and someone will be fooled into thinking I'm actually wise or something. Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people. - George Bernard Shaw Enjoying success requires the ability to adapt. Only by being open to change will you have a true opportunity to get the most from your talent. - Nolan Ryan You don't need a weather man to tell which way the wind blows. - Bob Dylan The future ain't what it used to be. - Yogi Berra Dammit! They took my freakin kidney! - Charlie the Unicorn ------------------- WE'RE SORRY, SOMETHING HAPPENED
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 18:18:00 - [59] Originally by: Ladyah Liandri Edited by: Ladyah Liandri on 05/07/2007 14:23:25 Mission probing facts: - No "noob" as the OP mentioned can do this in respect to the skill requirements - If the missioner is in 4 AU or lesser range then the OP is right: you can easily be probed with exploration probes. But that takes time (at least 2 minutes) and skills. - If you have to use normal scan probes then probing a mission runner is really a pain but you can get lucky from time to time. - Probes appear on your scanner. So if you have to run missions in low-sec but neglect your scanner you deserve every punishment executed upon you. To sum it up: - you don't have to fly missions in low sec - even if someone is a very skilled prober you will almost always have enough time to a.) detect probes and b.) avoid pew-pew. So no need to change anything IMHO. To expand on this a bit, there are a few things you can do to avoid getting scanned and ganked in a mission. 1. Move off the warp-in point. When the prober warps in, if you're sitting at the warp-in point he's going to have a point on you before you before you notice he's there. 2. Align to something. You should be doing this anyway as a lot of the missions have surprises now when your drone wanders off and shoots the wrong frig. When the prober warps in, just hit your warp button and he won't be able to target and scram you. 3. Be fast. Each scan has a low probability of success, but if you sit in the mission salvaging with your 139 m/s faction-fit raven for a couple hours, someone may notice you're there and start probing and depending on how skilled he is, and how long into the mission you were when he detected you, he may catch you. 4. Have friends. If 90% of your corp is afk or spread out across EVE then they aren't doing you any good. Probers have an advantage once they find you because they know what you're in and sometimes what you're tanked for/shooting, so they're fit for it. Because the only way you actually get caught is if you don't scan, you don't know what they have until they engage. Probing takes a long time, though, so few probing gangs will show up with overwhelming firepower (there's better stuff for a large gang to do). Don't mission unless you have a friend nearby. You will likely be jammed or damped by your attackers, but they may not have enough tank/firepower/ewar to take out both you and your friend. In the last few days my corp and I have probed a carrier, 2 BS's, and a BC in mission spaces. The one who played smart got away. I also had someone scan down my scan probe and try to attack me (I got away \o/). That probe was in space less than 10 minutes when he decided to scan for it, scanned for it, found it, and warped to it (0m scan deviation). If you want easy, probe for the probers and kill their gimped no-cpu fit ships. _____ Heat Warfare
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC. NxT LeveL	Posted - 2007.07.05 18:29:00 - [60] Originally by: Victor Valka Funny. PvP-ers cry that everything is done for PvE and they are getting shafted. PvE-ers cry that everything is done for PvP and they are getting shafted. From that we can deduce that balance has been reached. Kudos CCP. Thread was over with this post tbh. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve: Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.



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