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Saint Lazarus
C R Y O
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.09 00:37:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Das Forscher
lofty > tiller
too true ^^
and muhahahaha I wanna hear more Lofty victim threads, I wanna hear those Navy issue Raven flyin misson ho's scream \o/
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lofty29
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.09 00:44:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Saint Lazarus
Originally by: Das Forscher
lofty > tiller
too true ^^
and muhahahaha I wanna hear more Lofty victim threads, I wanna hear those Navy issue Raven flyin misson ho's scream \o/
9 months old but still pure gold.
Read
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Project Mayhem |
jilahed
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Posted - 2007.07.09 01:35:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
errm if im not mistaken, when you first join the gang, nobodys at war. then you enter an alt thats at war with another. only person that gets a warning there, is the one, that already knows whats gonna happen 
You are not mistaken but still wrong. 
"No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war. However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first.
"
This is part of the normal gang warning you get. Of course you dont get another warning when the warring party is invited after you already joined the gang. But i stated that explicitly.
Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
and thats the point. no warning about warring gangmates for the victim.
No specific warning about every gangmember that enters and might be at war with another gang member. Call me odd but i think as a rule of thumb in eve one warning is more than enough.
Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
now, if ccp would add the little feature, that somebody, that is at war just entered your gang, well, that wouldnt solve anything, because people would just time the altentering with the victims warp.
I think if CCP really would'nt want such things to happen they'd just make it impossible to gang people you are at war with. Can't see a problem with that (well technically) atm but maybe i forget some weird situation where you actually would want to do this.
Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
your comparison with the gatecamp isnt really appropriate. you gotta a scanner. you know where you warp to.
You have to make sure you are gang leader. If i'd be asked for help with a mission i'd naturally assume i am ganglead. It's really a simple solution and i think its safe to say you can avoid being ganked under the given circumstances more easily than falling for a camp here and there.
Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
strangers. if executed correctly, the victim never gets this lil warning. and this kills the mmorpg pve part.
You need to be gangleader. Other option is not ganging. You can have private chats, exchange bookmarks via direct trade etc.
Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
seriously, is this so hard to understand?
Quite a bit. Some people just have a different opinion for sound reasons.
Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
just try to imagine you wanna make a gang of 20 for some plex or you want to frig raid a lvl4 or whatever, and every new member goes like "i want to create the gang from scratch, to see if lofty's not around"
Well to take them all he's going to need a massive amount of scramblers and some well sized balls.  But seriously how often do you meet 19 random people you don't know and raid plexes with them?
And if you did would you take your cnr/nighthawk or your drake/raven to do it? In reality this is mostly about single players who are unaware of the risks and get killed i would think.
You can always check the given corps for active wars and deny gang if they have any.
The tools are all there but some people just refuse to use them. Its the same as with watching local, ship trading, using the map etc. etc.
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Celestal
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Posted - 2007.07.09 03:05:00 -
[64]
face it lofty29 is so lacking in testicular fortitude that even his close mates are convinced hes a 9 year old blonde girl.
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Ikarti Danaro
Caldari
Shock and Awe
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Posted - 2007.07.09 03:08:00 -
[65]
I've done something similar before, but only because the guy who wanted help started whining about me when I was tanking the damn mission for him.
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Crimson Onyx
kleptomaniacs
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Posted - 2007.07.09 03:38:00 -
[66]
hehe keep up the good work Lofty 
p.s. Project Mayhem was an awesome vid.
/emote Start's Lofty's fan club
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Kharadran Sullath
Caldari
IntoXication Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.09 09:24:00 -
[67]
Lol, that's very creative lofty. Good thing I got to know before I got my faction fitted CNR 
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--Don't get saucy with me Bernaise!-- |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.07.09 09:42:00 -
[68]
Sounds very dodgy - might never be illegal but definately not intended... Hard to cover for - perhaps make it impossible to gang with wartargets. hmm...
Everyship should be able to launch a BEACON (Emergency Beacon) that is available for all in local as a warp point. Fast help without gangs...
Only 1 pr hour and dissapears after 10-15 minutes
-
I'm a nice guy!!
and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing... |
Rh'jamiz
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.09 10:19:00 -
[69]
Except that wouldn't summon help, just an audience. An audience to your own demise. I think I'd pass. (Remember, the wardec thing makes it entirely legal to attack Mr. Chump.) :(
________
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -LordHarold ([email protected]) |
lofty29
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.09 11:02:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Celestal
face it lofty29 is so lacking in testicular fortitude that even his close mates are convinced hes a 9 year old blonde girl.
Mains or gtfo I guess you've not watched the video in my siggeh?
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Project Mayhem |
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Dahin
Maza Nostra
oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2007.07.09 11:08:00 -
[71]
old news dammit.
Wardec altcorp with altcorp, play victim. When you're getting shot hop gangs and commence ganking.
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Siang
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Posted - 2007.07.09 12:34:00 -
[72]
Just a question about this brilliant way of killing in empire..... what happens when the person leaves the gang the moment they come out of warp. Lets say you come out of warp and you see that you're not alone. You don't trust it and leave gang before you even lock anyone. Will your plan still work? Will you be involved in the war because you joined the gang at the first place? |
Daeva Vios
Ardent Adversary
Anvil.
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Posted - 2007.07.09 13:13:00 -
[73]
No, and I believe that the combination of the fact that you're safe if you leave the gang before aggression occurs, and you get a warning upon joining the gang, makes this not an exploit.
You've got opportunities to avoid this and opportunities to back out if you've taken the bait.
Exploits are taking advantage of a broken system, but when steps exist to avoid it even up to the last minute before point of contact...why is it an exploit?
EVE is PvP. You consented when you logged on.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.09 15:41:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Daeva Vios
No, and I believe that the combination of the fact that you're safe if you leave the gang before aggression occurs, and you get a warning upon joining the gang, makes this not an exploit.
You've got opportunities to avoid this and opportunities to back out if you've taken the bait.
The agression occurs the second the wardecced player joins the gang which isn't something you can predict in any way. The only opportunity to avoid this is never joining the gang in the first place.
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Callente Riveara
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:29:00 -
[75]
all you need is for the victim to turn the tables..
find a mission runner you know with a decent enough ship for lofty to target. After the lofty's alt invites the at war toon, immediatly invite some of your own friends into the fray and have them warp directly to your location.
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Tassi
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:43:00 -
[76]
So much for 100% safety in high sec.
Guess what? WE ARE THE BRINGERS OF HATRED!
Originally by: fire 59
i don't know of any bobs that have cheated
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lofty29
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:50:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Callente Riveara
all you need is for the victim to turn the tables..
find a mission runner you know with a decent enough ship for lofty to target. After the lofty's alt invites the at war toon, immediatly invite some of your own friends into the fray and have them warp directly to your location.
And the fact that they CANT INVITE ANYBODY has no effect on this?
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Project Mayhem
WTS : Faction Lewt |
Mtthias Clemi
Gallente
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:50:00 -
[78]
Lofty>CCP
--------------------------------------------
Stay away from my signature all of ya!!! IM WARNING YOU!!
PEW PEW PEW PEW!
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Akurion
Gallente
Master Miners
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:53:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Akurion on 09/07/2007 16:52:52
Originally by: Callente Riveara
all you need is for the victim to turn the tables..
find a mission runner you know with a decent enough ship for lofty to target. After the lofty's alt invites the at war toon, immediatly invite some of your own friends into the fray and have them warp directly to your location.
There's two reasons this won't work:
First, as Lofty himself mentioned, the victim can't invite anyone, since he isn't the gang leader.
Second, even if you did manage to get your buds in the gang, because of the way the war/gang mechanics work, they wouldn't be able to attack Lofty unless he attacked them first. Which, I'm guessing, isn't something he would probably do.
Instead, he'll probably just keep killing the original victim (who he knows he can beat because he's already scanned their ship for mods), take their stuff, then warp away, all while the friends watch.
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Barkode
Fourth Dimension
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:55:00 -
[80]
Originally by: lofty29
Originally by: Saint Lazarus
Originally by: Das Forscher
lofty > tiller
too true ^^
and muhahahaha I wanna hear more Lofty victim threads, I wanna hear those Navy issue Raven flyin misson ho's scream \o/
9 months old but still pure gold.
Read
Irony, post 54 lol
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lofty29
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:57:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Akurion
Second, even if you did manage to get your buds in the gang, because of the way the war/gang mechanics work, they wouldn't be able to attack Lofty unless he attacked them first. Which, I'm guessing, isn't something he would probably do.
I had that happen before. I got my alt into a gang of 5 or 6 missioners. All warped to my spot after a while. I killed the first one, looted, killed the next, looted, until they all shot me and got concorded
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Project Mayhem
WTS : Faction Lewt |
Barkode
Fourth Dimension
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Posted - 2007.07.09 17:05:00 -
[82]
Originally by: lofty29
Originally by: Akurion
Second, even if you did manage to get your buds in the gang, because of the way the war/gang mechanics work, they wouldn't be able to attack Lofty unless he attacked them first. Which, I'm guessing, isn't something he would probably do.
I had that happen before. I got my alt into a gang of 5 or 6 missioners. All warped to my spot after a while. I killed the first one, looted, killed the next, looted, until they all shot me and got concorded
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Taipan Gedscho
Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.09 17:28:00 -
[83]
Originally by: jilahed
stuff
yeah, yeah, youre right, ok ?
i admit it already!
now stop rubbing it in ffs
Only you can save mmorpgs - Stop crying for nerfs today! |
Durn Loze
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Posted - 2007.07.09 17:55:00 -
[84]
Well I wouldn't fall for this since I never group with strangers, but after reading about Lofty's activites I was indeed curious how it was done. Yes, I was too lazy to search on it and I was away from EVE a bit and missed the past round of discussions on this one. Thanks for the write up Akurion.
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T'Renn
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.09 18:44:00 -
[85]
Hey, Voogru - I don't mean to hijack a perfectly epic lofty thread, but I gotta know how I can book passage on the opux luxury yacht? I see it there and it looks like such a good holiday. What are rates for 3 day packages?
I'm totally serious. I want to hang out on the opux.
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Callente Riveara
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.07.09 18:49:00 -
[86]
ah my fault, read the orginal post wrong. I thought the Mark invited the bait 
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lofty29
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.09 20:01:00 -
[87]
wierchas noobhunter > dude can u post in that post for me like this ; lofty u are teh uber i wub yoooooooo
He told me to 
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Project Mayhem
WTS : Faction Lewt |
Aille Pluthrak
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2007.07.09 20:53:00 -
[88]
I knew this was the type of game where you don't go trusting everyone and their dog just cause "they need help and talk nice". Never trust anyone is my motto.
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Tarhess
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Posted - 2007.07.09 22:55:00 -
[89]
I can only think of two options that as a player can be used to counter this. One is you have a small corp which war dec's Lofty's corp and sits one system away and comes in to the rescue (using an out of corp covert ops to first find Lofty's safe spot). This is obviously fairly difficult to manage to get done with the amount of people you need to pull it off, the coordination, etc. The second would be to warp in logistics ships and rep the person taking damage which you are allowed to do but then lofty can shoot at you (good luck hitting a logistics ship that's 60km away though when he'll be set up for short range). Once again there is a good deal of coordinating that needs done here as well.
As far as a solution from the developer aspect of this the easiest solution would simply be that joining a gang does not make you a war target. I'm not really sure why this is even there in the first place. There's no benefit to the person in the gang at all as they can't shoot war targets just because they joined your gang and anyone who is at war is not going to have their carebear alts join them in gangs anyways. This mechanic seems to be an archaic leftover that at this point should be deprecated from the code.
An alternative solution (from the development side) would be for the first war target to be invited to a gang, everyone currently in that gang would immediately be removed from the gang (before the other player is joined so they have no aggro) and get a warning message asking if they would like to rejoin the warring gang. Once they have agreed to this the first time there would be no need to continue sending warnings for each member at war, and new gang invitees would get the updated message. This could be annoying however if you're setting up a gang in 0.0 and trying to get through gates and getting 'smacktalk' warnings at the gates. So I'd recommend this warning only occur in actual empire systems (0.1 and above) I'd personally go with the first dev solution but that's just me.
Obviously there are plenty of people who think lofty is great. I'm not one of them, however I can't say I'm losing any sleep over the faction fitted vindicator's that the high sec hugging isk farmers lost either. Personally I think everyone should have to join a corp after 30-90 days so they can be war decced. If the goal of this gang war mechanic is indeed to punish these people that is. Otherwise just remove it and be done with it. As this behavior really does not seem to be functioning as intended.
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Aeon Xero
Amarr
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.09 23:50:00 -
[90]
I think one who uses an exploit that isnt coverd in the EULA is a coward. Now lofty, if you want to prove your a real man, why not step up to some great pvpers? Come to wherever alliances like Aftermath, BoB, Tri, FALL, etc etc and challenege them? Or are you too weak? Silly pirate wannabee, give us real pirates a bad name. I hope we cross paths one day silly boy, Ill be happy to avenege all those people who lost millions in ship and mods, to a exploit.
Its not how old a character is, but how the caracter can use the skills they already got. |
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