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Report: How the Lofty29 scam works (with pictures)

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Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.08 18:50:00 - [1] While it's probably wishful thinking to believe that anyone who might actually fall for this scam reads the C&P boards, maybe someone will see this and be spared. When Lofty posted about his adventures in Dodixie the other day, I felt obligated as an anti-pirate to investigate how it works, and if possible set a counter-trap for him. After analyzing how he does it, I've concluded that there is probably no reasonable way short of declaring war on his corp to stop him, even in the act. As far as Concorde is concerned, his piracy is completely legal. Here's how: For those who don't already know, the scam takes place in Dodixie, a .9 system in Sinq Laison. While any hi-sec system will do, Dodixie has some very lucrative agents and many missions take place in the system itself. As such Dodixie is filled with hi-sec dwellers who fly fantastically well-fitted ships. Those are his marks. Lofty sets the trap in a safespot, no so much because he needs isolation but because he doesn't want people catching on to what he's doing. Lofty's safe spot. (More on the Exequror later.) Meanwhile, one of Lofty's partners (probably an alt, but that's impossible to verify) sits around outside the main station in Dodixie, looking for a valuable mark. The alt (in this case, a Raven pilot named David Koresch) has a passive targetter, a ship scanner, and probably a cargo scanner as well. When he finds a mission runner who has some valuable mods, he strikes up a conversation. The bait tells the mark that he needs help running a mission, and probably offers some reward if successful. If the mark agrees to help, the bait invites him to his gang, and they both warp to Lofty29's location. Here's where the scam comes in. While the two are in warp to their 'mission,' the bait invites a third person, again probably one of Lofty's alts. This alt is in a small corporation at war with Lofty's corp, Infinitus Odium. Once that character joins the gang, the bait becomes a valid war target for Lofty. A quick search reveals that Infinitus Odium is at war with only one corporation, Latrocinium Inc. Compare their corp icons. Privately funded mercenaries, indeed. Once the bait and the mark arrive at Lofty's position, he goes to work with his Dominix. Since he already knows what the other ship is fitted with, the fight usually isn't in any doubt. If all else fails, he can just warp away, since he knows his victim doesn't have a warp scrambler. And if things go really wrong, he's got his friend we saw earlier, the Exequror pilot. Since no laws are being broken in the fight, the Exequror can come back and provide some remote armor-repping. Eventually the bait dies, and Lofty scoops up the loot. In this particular case, it was about 900m worth of faction mods. (Side note: I made the foolish mistake at this point of trying to scoop up the loot myself, to return to the victim. Since I'm playing via satellite from Afghanistan my latency is pretty high, and by the time I got the wreck open the loot was gone. Instead I just ended up decloaking and blowing my cover. My apologies to the victim.) The scam works because the victim joins a person in an NPC corp to run a mission. He never gets a warning about gang members being in a war because the gang leader doesn't invite the at-war character until they're already in warp to Lofty's location. The mark doesn't realize what's happening until Lofty opens fire, and by then it's too late. IMHO, this is more than just a scam; it's a circumvention of the gang/war mechanics. I never understood why joining a gang made you vulnerable to such attacks, but that is how CCP wants it I guess. To my fellow anti-pirates; I can't see any way to break or counter-trap this scam. If you do, I wish you the best.
Logi3 Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.07.08 18:58:00 - [2] Nice one Lofty :)
LMAAAOOOO	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:02:00 - [3] Thanks for sharing, but to be honest, this looks like an exploit. ______________________________________________ some guy telling a noob that pirates doesnt check their age before attacking "ooh! an age quip! very clever,I'm probably older than you darling! xx
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:04:00 - [4] It's so tempting to do this... Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:08:00 - [5] I must be the only person other then lofty who knew how lofty did this, it aint hard to figure out for yourself.
Stakhanov kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:11:00 - [6] Welcome to last year ?
Faekurias Federation Fleet Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:13:00 - [7] I love these things! do more of them :D Re-added for Dodiez :P
Wardog 1 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:15:00 - [8] Well damn I'd have told you that if you asked, everyone knows how its done :p
Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Wardog 1 Well damn I'd have told you that if you asked, everyone knows how its done :p Obviously not everyone, if people are falling for it still. That said, the people who are falling for it a) don't read this board, and b) even if they were aware of it, the only way to avoid falling for this is to never join anyone's gang. As I said earlier, this seems like more than just a scam; it's an abuse of the war mechanic.
Zhett Haukes Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:20:00 - [10] Wow, what a great pirating technique... grinds up sec status. I guess not trusting anyone still holds in highsec too. My paranoid nature always comes in useful.

lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:24:00 - [11] OH NOES! PEOPLE KNOW!!!!11!11 Does it matter? --- Project Mayhem
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:30:00 - [12] Ok a few things Quote: A quick search reveals that Infinitus Odium is at war with only one corporation, Latrocinium Inc. Compare their corp icons. The similarity in the icons is quite remarkable actually. I made the corporation 6 months ago to house my alts so that I could have some fun deccing people in Hi-Sec, which I did. I didn't copy the INFOD logo, that's just coincidence Quote: And if things go really wrong, he's got his friend we saw earlier, the Exequror pilot. Since no laws are being broken in the fight, the Exequror can come back and provide some remote armor-repping. Seriously? I dont even know the guy. He warped to my safe twice and I asked what he was doing. I assumed he had caught onto what I was doing and was gonna try to steal loot, but he told me he was just testing out mission-runner probing. Quote: (Side note: I made the foolish mistake at this point of trying to scoop up the loot myself, to return to the victim. Since I'm playing via satellite from Afghanistan my latency is pretty high, and by the time I got the wreck open the loot was gone. Instead I just ended up decloaking and blowing my cover. My apologies to the victim.) YARR! That is all --- Project Mayhem
Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:31:00 - [13] Originally by: lofty29 OH NOES! PEOPLE KNOW!!!!11!11 Does it matter? I can see two possible outcomes to this tactic being more widely known. The first (being the most ideal and yet also the most unlikely) is that people will be more careful, and hopefully avoid this scam. However, since it's so easy, and would basically require people to stop being nice to strangers (part of human nature, it seems), I don't foresee this happening. The second, and more likely, is that more and more people will start doing this for themselves, since obviously it's a way to obtain fabulous wealth in a short period (what's your total for this week? 3.3 billion?). Eventually, like most loopholes, CCP will close it, and the hi-sec pirates will be back to can-flipping and ore theft. As for myself, I don't have any particular goal. I just like writing things like this, and didn't want to let an evening of effort go to waste (once it became apparently that there was no legal way to destroy your ship even after you started the scam). Fly safe!
Shaji kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:31:00 - [14] I think you helped educate new pirates rather than stop this from happening, but nice little guide anyways ;)
Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:33:00 - [15] Originally by: lofty29 Quote: And if things go really wrong, he's got his friend we saw earlier, the Exequror pilot. Since no laws are being broken in the fight, the Exequror can come back and provide some remote armor-repping. Seriously? I dont even know the guy. He warped to my safe twice and I asked what he was doing. I assumed he had caught onto what I was doing and was gonna try to steal loot, but he told me he was just testing out mission-runner probing. Well, I just assumed he was working with you. I mean, what are the chances that not one, but two people working independently will both warp to a single pilot's safespot? Still, good to know. I'll write his name down for later.
Chronos VIII Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:35:00 - [16] i know lofty - im special!
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:37:00 - [17] Originally by: Shaji I think you helped educate new pirates rather than stop this from happening, but nice little guide anyways ;) Indeed, that's what I thought. Most people end up dying while doing this anyway cus they don't fully understand it I guess I'll just have to ***** the next two days uber-hard in the hope that nobodys wardec goes through before then --- Project Mayhem
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:38:00 - [18] Originally by: Akurion Well, I just assumed he was working with you. I mean, what are the chances that not one, but two people working independently will both warp to a single pilot's safespot? Its called probes. Also my PC would melt if I had 4 accounts running --- Project Mayhem
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:39:00 - [19] Welcome to one year ago! 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:43:00 - [20] Edited by: Akurion on 08/07/2007 19:42:54 Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Akurion Well, I just assumed he was working with you. I mean, what are the chances that not one, but two people working independently will both warp to a single pilot's safespot? Its called probes. Also my PC would melt if I had 4 accounts running Yes, probes are awesome. However, there were more than 30 pilots in space, including at least a half a dozen dominixes. I just guessed yours was the one with the latin name. Anyway, do people warp in on you frequently? Random people, that is. Not your victims.

Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:50:00 - [21] Edited by: Victor Vision on 08/07/2007 19:53:32 Originally by: Dark Shikari Welcome to one year ago! My thoughts precisely. But kudos to the OP anyways. Well written post. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:52:00 - [22] thats old news.... lofty even said this himself a while back lol
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:55:00 - [23] Originally by: Akurion Edited by: Akurion on 08/07/2007 19:42:54 Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Akurion Well, I just assumed he was working with you. I mean, what are the chances that not one, but two people working independently will both warp to a single pilot's safespot? Its called probes. Also my PC would melt if I had 4 accounts running Yes, probes are awesome. However, there were more than 30 pilots in space, including at least a half a dozen dominixes. I just guessed yours was the one with the latin name. Anyway, do people warp in on you frequently? Random people, that is. Not your victims. No, thats the first one I've ever seen. What a coincidence! --- Project Mayhem
Kirex Gallente Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:13:00 - [24] yea this is old news. Congrats to lofty though. :) How much isk do you have lofty? ;p
Reverend Revelator Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:17:00 - [25] Oh no! It's dejavu all over again! -- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love --
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:20:00 - [26] Everyone should really know that you don't join someone's gang unless u trust them. As far as i'm concerned it's not the most 'honorable' way to gain kills but there's nothing wrong with it and anyone who joins someone's gang who they don't know in such an expensive ship deserves to die. DE
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:24:00 - [27] To the OP: I see you put a lot of work into this. Lurking moar would have saved you the trouble. Lofty's methods haven't been a secret in a loooooong time. I happen to think it's genius. To Lofty: David Koresch? Does that mean it was you who would pass through RK space when I was trying to rat my sec up? You should have stopped and chatted for longer --
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:25:00 - [28] Originally by: T'Renn To the OP: I see you put a lot of work into this. Lurking moar would have saved you the trouble. Lofty's methods haven't been a secret in a loooooong time. I happen to think it's genius. To Lofty: David Koresch? Does that mean it was you who would pass through RK space when I was trying to rat my sec up? You should have stopped and chatted for longer Yarr I passed through. I was ratting my own sec up! --- Project Mayhem
Taipan Gedscho Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:33:00 - [29] yup old news. and imho a sad story. no offense, lofty, props to you for executing this maneuver so well, but imho its a killer for the WHOLE pve part of eve. dont come to me telling me eve is a pvp game. eve is a game, and it has a pve part too, and no matter how sucky it may be, this game is what people want it to be. be it "space wall street manager" or "zero G counterstrike" its their decision. and the "intergalactic diablo" part is seriously broken. why? because your mark has no way of saving himself, instead of not grouping up with strangers. thus killing the whole mmorpg pve thing. again, well executed (a target with nearly no chance of survival, phat loot, and everything in a rather secure environment? thats genious!) but its lame for the pve'ers. not loftys fault but ccps. afaik not even considered exploiting... but.. am i the only one that thinks, this destroys the pve part? Only you can save mmorpgs - Stop crying for nerfs today!
Taipan Gedscho Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:40:00 - [30] was it a nice hamsteR? Only you can save mmorpgs - Stop crying for nerfs today!

Bezariel	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Taipan Gedscho because your mark has no way of saving himself, instead of not grouping up with strangers. thus killing the whole mmorpg pve thing. Not entirely true. This method relies on the 'bad guys' inviting people into their gangs - both the victim and the wardecced intermediary. Only the gang boss can invite people So if you want to help someone on a mission and you dont trust him enough to join his gang, just form a gang and tell him to join that instead. That way you will be in charge of who gets invited, no nasty surprises. Short: dont join gangs, form one and invite.
Faekurias Federation Fleet Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:48:00 - [32] lol Infod threads always deliver GIEV MOAR PLX! Re-added for Dodiez :P
Taipan Gedscho Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:49:00 - [33] Originally by: Bezariel Originally by: Taipan Gedscho because your mark has no way of saving himself, instead of not grouping up with strangers. thus killing the whole mmorpg pve thing. Not entirely true. This method relies on the 'bad guys' inviting people into their gangs - both the victim and the wardecced intermediary. Only the gang boss can invite people So if you want to help someone on a mission and you dont trust him enough to join his gang, just form a gang and tell him to join that instead. That way you will be in charge of who gets invited, no nasty surprises. Short: dont join gangs, form one and invite. lol so true. im a dumbass zomg. Only you can save mmorpgs - Stop crying for nerfs today!
jilahed	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:01:00 - [34] Just in case nobody mentioned it already: Lofty has done this for years. Its very well known within in the community and a simple search for lofty29 on eve-o will reveal the method and threads without end on this one. I wonder how a dedicated antipirate after such extensive research could miss them. However, its not an exploit. People get the warning message about war targets when they first enter the gang. Ofc they are not warned again when the warring third party enters, but hell people should use their brain. Especially if they have no other risk of loosing their money-printing machines. Also its in no way a scam. You dont get promised anything and you are not betrayed. Why is it an exploit or a scam if you shoot legal wartargets? Oh and on that note: The exqueror can remote rep but it gets flagged in that case and can be shot at without repercussions. So its all fair game. It's just part of the simple fact that you are safe in eve nowhere. This should be common knowledge and whoever doesn't know this after having the money for a faction fitted CNR should just feel the pain. I for one applaud lofty for proving again that stupidity is infinite and giving out such valuable lessons at a fair price. In the end the only way to protect the carebears from themselves is to either tie them up and put them in cages or mhhh ok thats the only one. sigh. Just out of curiousity: Why do you feel compelled to help people who put themselves deliberately into such unfavourable situations? I just dont get it. I mean helping a noob who might not know better - so be it. But these lazy and rich mission-machines who play for 3 years and don't even know how flagging works only because they chose to never learn the mechanics of the game they play? Every mission runner you save will fall for the next stupid trick. Just let them learn their lesson - its needed badly imo.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:15:00 - [35] Originally by: jilahed Just in case nobody mentioned it already: Lofty has done this for years. Its very well known within in the community and a simple search for lofty29 on eve-o will reveal the method and threads without end on this one. I wonder how a dedicated antipirate after such extensive research could miss them. However, its not an exploit. People get the warning message about war targets when they first enter the gang. Ofc they are not warned again when the warring third party enters, but hell people should use their brain. Especially if they have no other risk of loosing their money-printing machines. Also its in no way a scam. You dont get promised anything and you are not betrayed. Why is it an exploit or a scam if you shoot legal wartargets? Oh and on that note: The exqueror can remote rep but it gets flagged in that case and can be shot at without repercussions. So its all fair game. It's just part of the simple fact that you are safe in eve nowhere. This should be common knowledge and whoever doesn't know this after having the money for a faction fitted CNR should just feel the pain. I for one applaud lofty for proving again that stupidity is infinite and giving out such valuable lessons at a fair price. In the end the only way to protect the carebears from themselves is to either tie them up and put them in cages or mhhh ok thats the only one. sigh. Just out of curiousity: Why do you feel compelled to help people who put themselves deliberately into such unfavourable situations? I just dont get it. I mean helping a noob who might not know better - so be it. But these lazy and rich mission-machines who play for 3 years and don't even know how flagging works only because they chose to never learn the mechanics of the game they play? Every mission runner you save will fall for the next stupid trick. Just let them learn their lesson - its needed badly imo. I do it to teach them lessons? Nawwwwww its good isk --- Project Mayhem
Neon Razor Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:37:00 - [36] lofty would not let me join him ganking in empire i was made listen to how much isk he was making in corp chat. he raised enough isk for a fully faction fitted vindi in 2 days of ganking mission runners. Lofty contact me ingame. Neon Razor (formally known as Robbie Boozecruise)
Das Forscher Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:48:00 - [37] lofty > tiller //------------------------------------------------------ Oveurs true identity revealed
BANDID Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:49:00 - [38] Originally by: Taipan Gedscho yup old news. and imho a sad story. no offense, lofty, props to you for executing this maneuver so well, but imho its a killer for the WHOLE pve part of eve. dont come to me telling me eve is a pvp game. eve is a game, and it has a pve part too, and no matter how sucky it may be, this game is what people want it to be. be it "space wall street manager" or "zero G counterstrike" its their decision. and the "intergalactic diablo" part is seriously broken. why? because your mark has no way of saving himself, instead of not grouping up with strangers. thus killing the whole mmorpg pve thing. again, well executed (a target with nearly no chance of survival, phat loot, and everything in a rather secure environment? thats genious!) but its lame for the pve'ers. not loftys fault but ccps. afaik not even considered exploiting... but.. am i the only one that thinks, this destroys the pve part? Please stop whining, when u solo jump into a 50 man bubble camp there is no way u can defend ureself, Its maybe an old but valid tactic and hes making billions out of it who cares, its a game if u dont trust anyone to gang up with dont, macro miners are ******* up this game isk sellers all of them what he does is just proper game play its not an exploit so live with it. Way to go Lofty !
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:51:00 - [39] Originally by: Das Forscher lofty > tiller Oh you --- Project Mayhem
Lord BlackSter Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:56:00 - [40] Lofty is the man!

lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:58:00 - [41] Originally by: Lord BlackSter Lofty is the boy! Fixed --- Project Mayhem
BANDID Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:06:00 - [42] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Lord BlackSter Lofty is the kid! Fixed fixed again
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:07:00 - [43] Originally by: BANDID Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Lord BlackSter Lofty is the kid! Fixed fixed again Nooooooooo --- Project Mayhem
Faekurias Federation Fleet Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:11:00 - [44] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: BANDID Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Lord BlackSter Lofty is the pwnt! Fixed fixed again Nooooooooo ? Re-added for Dodiez :P
Taipan Gedscho Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:13:00 - [45] Originally by: jilahed However, its not an exploit. People get the warning message about war targets when they first enter the gang. Ofc they are not warned again when the warring third party enters, but hell people should use their brain. Especially if they have no other risk of loosing their money-printing machines. errm if im not mistaken, when you first join the gang, nobodys at war. then you enter an alt thats at war with another. only person that gets a warning there, is the one, that already knows whats gonna happen and thats the point. no warning about warring gangmates. Only you can save mmorpgs - Stop crying for nerfs today!
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:29:00 - [46] Taipan, please read - Quote: No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war. However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first. You receive that information when you enter a non-warring gang. Yes it is worded funny, but the information you need is there. Do not join a gang if you do not know the risks. --- Project Mayhem
Kyozoku Mutiny.	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:31:00 - [47] This is hardly worth a post. Loftys methods are blatantly obvious and only an idiot couldn't work them out for himself.
Maxoz	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:33:00 - [48] I watched lofty do this once around a planet about 6 months ago when I was still a carebear and now I like to think I am a half decent pirate I can look back and see that this is not directed at mission runners (I was one) or carebears in general, just simply stupid people.
Taipan Gedscho Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:34:00 - [49] yeah i know. and i guess my objection is really a bit uncalled for. coz infact... most of the time, when you go with gangs, you can bring cheap stuff anyway. who need gist type 1337 stuff when you got teamwork... Only you can save mmorpgs - Stop crying for nerfs today!
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Maxoz I watched lofty do this once around a planet about 6 months ago when I was still a carebear and now I like to think I am a half decent pirate I can look back and see that this is not directed at mission runners (I was one) or carebears in general, just simply stupid people. That was back in Oursulaert? That was just stupid people yes. Mission runners are my priority now, as they have juicy juicy lewt --- Project Mayhem

lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:40:00 - [51] Originally by: Taipan Gedscho yeah i know. and i guess my objection is really a bit uncalled for. coz infact... most of the time, when you go with gangs, you can bring cheap stuff anyway. who need gist type 1337 stuff when you got teamwork... You don't need 1337 gist stuff to even tank missions.... Only things I can think you might like would be officer PDUs to reduce the number you need, allowing more BCUs. Faction BCUs of course and faction launchers increase ROF / damage. The tank needs no beefing though... I can do any l4 in my Eos or Dominix solo with just t2. Im sure a raven would have no problem. --- Project Mayhem
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:42:00 - [52] lofty29 is not the first to do this. He got the idea from me, I used it to prey on your friendly "asjdiasjd", "daojdqwdiuoqwd", "djawdwjdj", "dijeqwidjiqwd" farmers. And this is over a year old AND legal.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:44:00 - [53] Originally by: voogru lofty29 is not the first to do this. He got the idea from me, I used it to prey on your friendly "asjdiasjd", "daojdqwdiuoqwd", "djawdwjdj", "dijeqwidjiqwd" farmers. And this is over a year old AND legal. I never claim to be the first, ever. You gave me the information about how you kill ISK farmers, and now I use it to my advantage Much love voogru. --- Project Mayhem
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:50:00 - [54] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: voogru lofty29 is not the first to do this. He got the idea from me, I used it to prey on your friendly "asjdiasjd", "daojdqwdiuoqwd", "djawdwjdj", "dijeqwidjiqwd" farmers. And this is over a year old AND legal. I never claim to be the first, ever. You gave me the information about how you kill ISK farmers, and now I use it to my advantage Much love voogru. One day it'll be used against you
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:51:00 - [55] Originally by: voogru Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: voogru lofty29 is not the first to do this. He got the idea from me, I used it to prey on your friendly "asjdiasjd", "daojdqwdiuoqwd", "djawdwjdj", "dijeqwidjiqwd" farmers. And this is over a year old AND legal. I never claim to be the first, ever. You gave me the information about how you kill ISK farmers, and now I use it to my advantage Much love voogru. One day it'll be used against you Impossible, I'm not a total dumbass --- Project Mayhem
Galen Darksmith	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:26:00 - [56] Edited by: Galen Darksmith on 08/07/2007 23:25:42 Good report! Not EVERYONE knows about it, so it's nice to see people looking out for each other. So, all you'd have to do is get you're local friendly anti-pirate corp to wardec on ol' Lofty's corp, quit his gang when you arrive, and quickly get invited to the gank squad of anitpirates. Get them to warp in, scramble him, and serve up some toasty Lofty :-D EVERY pirate trick has a counter. Just a matter of patience and dedication.
Investigador Caldari Hator inc	Posted - 2007.07.08 23:38:00 - [57] Winston Umbeke and J'api S'appi from Latrocinium corp are doing this trick right now at Torrinos. Winston left Latrocinium one day ago so he could calm down mission runners saying that he is at a NPC corp
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.09 00:13:00 - [58] Originally by: Galen Darksmith Edited by: Galen Darksmith on 08/07/2007 23:25:42 Good report! Not EVERYONE knows about it, so it's nice to see people looking out for each other. So, all you'd have to do is get you're local friendly anti-pirate corp to wardec on ol' Lofty's corp, quit his gang when you arrive, and quickly get invited to the gank squad of anitpirates. Get them to warp in, scramble him, and serve up some toasty Lofty :-D EVERY pirate trick has a counter. Just a matter of patience and dedication. The problem is, who has enough balls to wardec infod? --- Project Mayhem
Igus Green Gecko Inc. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.09 00:15:00 - [59] How is this not an exploit ? -- snip Your signature exceeds the maximum filesize (24,000bytes) and also the signature dimensions 400x120 pixels -TheDagda ([email protected])
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.09 00:26:00 - [60] Originally by: Igus How is this not an exploit ? Cus CCP is law. --- Project Mayhem

Saint Lazarus C R Y O FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.09 00:37:00 - [61] Originally by: Das Forscher lofty > tiller too true ^^ and muhahahaha I wanna hear more Lofty victim threads, I wanna hear those Navy issue Raven flyin misson ho's scream \o/ ------------------------------
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.09 00:44:00 - [62] Originally by: Saint Lazarus Originally by: Das Forscher lofty > tiller too true ^^ and muhahahaha I wanna hear more Lofty victim threads, I wanna hear those Navy issue Raven flyin misson ho's scream \o/ 9 months old but still pure gold. Read --- Project Mayhem
jilahed	Posted - 2007.07.09 01:35:00 - [63] Originally by: Taipan Gedscho errm if im not mistaken, when you first join the gang, nobodys at war. then you enter an alt thats at war with another. only person that gets a warning there, is the one, that already knows whats gonna happen You are not mistaken but still wrong. "No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war. However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first. " This is part of the normal gang warning you get. Of course you dont get another warning when the warring party is invited after you already joined the gang. But i stated that explicitly. Originally by: Taipan Gedscho and thats the point. no warning about warring gangmates for the victim. No specific warning about every gangmember that enters and might be at war with another gang member. Call me odd but i think as a rule of thumb in eve one warning is more than enough. Originally by: Taipan Gedscho now, if ccp would add the little feature, that somebody, that is at war just entered your gang, well, that wouldnt solve anything, because people would just time the altentering with the victims warp. I think if CCP really would'nt want such things to happen they'd just make it impossible to gang people you are at war with. Can't see a problem with that (well technically) atm but maybe i forget some weird situation where you actually would want to do this. Originally by: Taipan Gedscho your comparison with the gatecamp isnt really appropriate. you gotta a scanner. you know where you warp to. You have to make sure you are gang leader. If i'd be asked for help with a mission i'd naturally assume i am ganglead. It's really a simple solution and i think its safe to say you can avoid being ganked under the given circumstances more easily than falling for a camp here and there. Originally by: Taipan Gedscho strangers. if executed correctly, the victim never gets this lil warning. and this kills the mmorpg pve part. You need to be gangleader. Other option is not ganging. You can have private chats, exchange bookmarks via direct trade etc. Originally by: Taipan Gedscho seriously, is this so hard to understand? Quite a bit. Some people just have a different opinion for sound reasons. Originally by: Taipan Gedscho just try to imagine you wanna make a gang of 20 for some plex or you want to frig raid a lvl4 or whatever, and every new member goes like "i want to create the gang from scratch, to see if lofty's not around" Well to take them all he's going to need a massive amount of scramblers and some well sized balls. But seriously how often do you meet 19 random people you don't know and raid plexes with them? And if you did would you take your cnr/nighthawk or your drake/raven to do it? In reality this is mostly about single players who are unaware of the risks and get killed i would think. You can always check the given corps for active wars and deny gang if they have any. The tools are all there but some people just refuse to use them. Its the same as with watching local, ship trading, using the map etc. etc.
Celestal	Posted - 2007.07.09 03:05:00 - [64] face it lofty29 is so lacking in testicular fortitude that even his close mates are convinced hes a 9 year old blonde girl.
Ikarti Danaro Caldari Shock and Awe	Posted - 2007.07.09 03:08:00 - [65] I've done something similar before, but only because the guy who wanted help started whining about me when I was tanking the damn mission for him.
Crimson Onyx kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.07.09 03:38:00 - [66] hehe keep up the good work Lofty p.s. Project Mayhem was an awesome vid. /emote Start's Lofty's fan club
Kharadran Sullath Caldari IntoXication Inc	Posted - 2007.07.09 09:24:00 - [67] Lol, that's very creative lofty. Good thing I got to know before I got my faction fitted CNR ------ --Don't get saucy with me Bernaise!--
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.07.09 09:42:00 - [68] Sounds very dodgy - might never be illegal but definately not intended... Hard to cover for - perhaps make it impossible to gang with wartargets. hmm... Everyship should be able to launch a BEACON (Emergency Beacon) that is available for all in local as a warp point. Fast help without gangs... Only 1 pr hour and dissapears after 10-15 minutes - I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...
Rh'jamiz Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.07.09 10:19:00 - [69] Except that wouldn't summon help, just an audience. An audience to your own demise. I think I'd pass. (Remember, the wardec thing makes it entirely legal to attack Mr. Chump.) :( ________ Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -LordHarold ([email protected])
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.09 11:02:00 - [70] Originally by: Celestal face it lofty29 is so lacking in testicular fortitude that even his close mates are convinced hes a 9 year old blonde girl. Mains or gtfo I guess you've not watched the video in my siggeh? --- Project Mayhem

Dahin Maza Nostra oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.07.09 11:08:00 - [71] old news dammit. Wardec altcorp with altcorp, play victim. When you're getting shot hop gangs and commence ganking.
Siang	Posted - 2007.07.09 12:34:00 - [72] Just a question about this brilliant way of killing in empire..... what happens when the person leaves the gang the moment they come out of warp. Lets say you come out of warp and you see that you're not alone. You don't trust it and leave gang before you even lock anyone. Will your plan still work? Will you be involved in the war because you joined the gang at the first place?
Daeva Vios Ardent Adversary Anvil.	Posted - 2007.07.09 13:13:00 - [73] No, and I believe that the combination of the fact that you're safe if you leave the gang before aggression occurs, and you get a warning upon joining the gang, makes this not an exploit. You've got opportunities to avoid this and opportunities to back out if you've taken the bait. Exploits are taking advantage of a broken system, but when steps exist to avoid it even up to the last minute before point of contact...why is it an exploit? EVE is PvP. You consented when you logged on.
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.09 15:41:00 - [74] Originally by: Daeva Vios No, and I believe that the combination of the fact that you're safe if you leave the gang before aggression occurs, and you get a warning upon joining the gang, makes this not an exploit. You've got opportunities to avoid this and opportunities to back out if you've taken the bait. The agression occurs the second the wardecced player joins the gang which isn't something you can predict in any way. The only opportunity to avoid this is never joining the gang in the first place.
Callente Riveara Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:29:00 - [75] all you need is for the victim to turn the tables.. find a mission runner you know with a decent enough ship for lofty to target. After the lofty's alt invites the at war toon, immediatly invite some of your own friends into the fray and have them warp directly to your location.
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:43:00 - [76] So much for 100% safety in high sec. Guess what? WE ARE THE BRINGERS OF HATRED! Originally by: fire 59 i don't know of any bobs that have cheated
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:50:00 - [77] Originally by: Callente Riveara all you need is for the victim to turn the tables.. find a mission runner you know with a decent enough ship for lofty to target. After the lofty's alt invites the at war toon, immediatly invite some of your own friends into the fray and have them warp directly to your location. And the fact that they CANT INVITE ANYBODY has no effect on this? --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Mtthias Clemi Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:50:00 - [78] Lofty>CCP -------------------------------------------- Stay away from my signature all of ya!!! IM WARNING YOU!! PEW PEW PEW PEW!
Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:53:00 - [79] Edited by: Akurion on 09/07/2007 16:52:52 Originally by: Callente Riveara all you need is for the victim to turn the tables.. find a mission runner you know with a decent enough ship for lofty to target. After the lofty's alt invites the at war toon, immediatly invite some of your own friends into the fray and have them warp directly to your location. There's two reasons this won't work: First, as Lofty himself mentioned, the victim can't invite anyone, since he isn't the gang leader. Second, even if you did manage to get your buds in the gang, because of the way the war/gang mechanics work, they wouldn't be able to attack Lofty unless he attacked them first. Which, I'm guessing, isn't something he would probably do. Instead, he'll probably just keep killing the original victim (who he knows he can beat because he's already scanned their ship for mods), take their stuff, then warp away, all while the friends watch.
Barkode Fourth Dimension	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:55:00 - [80] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Saint Lazarus Originally by: Das Forscher lofty > tiller too true ^^ and muhahahaha I wanna hear more Lofty victim threads, I wanna hear those Navy issue Raven flyin misson ho's scream \o/ 9 months old but still pure gold. Read Irony, post 54 lol

lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:57:00 - [81] Originally by: Akurion Second, even if you did manage to get your buds in the gang, because of the way the war/gang mechanics work, they wouldn't be able to attack Lofty unless he attacked them first. Which, I'm guessing, isn't something he would probably do. I had that happen before. I got my alt into a gang of 5 or 6 missioners. All warped to my spot after a while. I killed the first one, looted, killed the next, looted, until they all shot me and got concorded --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Barkode Fourth Dimension	Posted - 2007.07.09 17:05:00 - [82] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Akurion Second, even if you did manage to get your buds in the gang, because of the way the war/gang mechanics work, they wouldn't be able to attack Lofty unless he attacked them first. Which, I'm guessing, isn't something he would probably do. I had that happen before. I got my alt into a gang of 5 or 6 missioners. All warped to my spot after a while. I killed the first one, looted, killed the next, looted, until they all shot me and got concorded
Taipan Gedscho Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.09 17:28:00 - [83] Originally by: jilahed stuff yeah, yeah, youre right, ok ? i admit it already! now stop rubbing it in ffs Only you can save mmorpgs - Stop crying for nerfs today!
Durn Loze	Posted - 2007.07.09 17:55:00 - [84] Well I wouldn't fall for this since I never group with strangers, but after reading about Lofty's activites I was indeed curious how it was done. Yes, I was too lazy to search on it and I was away from EVE a bit and missed the past round of discussions on this one. Thanks for the write up Akurion.
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.09 18:44:00 - [85] Hey, Voogru - I don't mean to hijack a perfectly epic lofty thread, but I gotta know how I can book passage on the opux luxury yacht? I see it there and it looks like such a good holiday. What are rates for 3 day packages? I'm totally serious. I want to hang out on the opux. --
Callente Riveara Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.09 18:49:00 - [86] ah my fault, read the orginal post wrong. I thought the Mark invited the bait
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.09 20:01:00 - [87] wierchas noobhunter > dude can u post in that post for me like this ; lofty u are teh uber i wub yoooooooo He told me to --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Aille Pluthrak Caldari Racketeers	Posted - 2007.07.09 20:53:00 - [88] I knew this was the type of game where you don't go trusting everyone and their dog just cause "they need help and talk nice". Never trust anyone is my motto.
Tarhess	Posted - 2007.07.09 22:55:00 - [89] I can only think of two options that as a player can be used to counter this. One is you have a small corp which war dec's Lofty's corp and sits one system away and comes in to the rescue (using an out of corp covert ops to first find Lofty's safe spot). This is obviously fairly difficult to manage to get done with the amount of people you need to pull it off, the coordination, etc. The second would be to warp in logistics ships and rep the person taking damage which you are allowed to do but then lofty can shoot at you (good luck hitting a logistics ship that's 60km away though when he'll be set up for short range). Once again there is a good deal of coordinating that needs done here as well. As far as a solution from the developer aspect of this the easiest solution would simply be that joining a gang does not make you a war target. I'm not really sure why this is even there in the first place. There's no benefit to the person in the gang at all as they can't shoot war targets just because they joined your gang and anyone who is at war is not going to have their carebear alts join them in gangs anyways. This mechanic seems to be an archaic leftover that at this point should be deprecated from the code. An alternative solution (from the development side) would be for the first war target to be invited to a gang, everyone currently in that gang would immediately be removed from the gang (before the other player is joined so they have no aggro) and get a warning message asking if they would like to rejoin the warring gang. Once they have agreed to this the first time there would be no need to continue sending warnings for each member at war, and new gang invitees would get the updated message. This could be annoying however if you're setting up a gang in 0.0 and trying to get through gates and getting 'smacktalk' warnings at the gates. So I'd recommend this warning only occur in actual empire systems (0.1 and above) I'd personally go with the first dev solution but that's just me. Obviously there are plenty of people who think lofty is great. I'm not one of them, however I can't say I'm losing any sleep over the faction fitted vindicator's that the high sec hugging isk farmers lost either. Personally I think everyone should have to join a corp after 30-90 days so they can be war decced. If the goal of this gang war mechanic is indeed to punish these people that is. Otherwise just remove it and be done with it. As this behavior really does not seem to be functioning as intended.
Aeon Xero Amarr The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.09 23:50:00 - [90] I think one who uses an exploit that isnt coverd in the EULA is a coward. Now lofty, if you want to prove your a real man, why not step up to some great pvpers? Come to wherever alliances like Aftermath, BoB, Tri, FALL, etc etc and challenege them? Or are you too weak? Silly pirate wannabee, give us real pirates a bad name. I hope we cross paths one day silly boy, Ill be happy to avenege all those people who lost millions in ship and mods, to a exploit. Its not how old a character is, but how the caracter can use the skills they already got.

hUssmann Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:08:00 - [91] 2006 called. Ginger Magician > You are merely an effective ganker of haulers who runs at the first sign of combat.
Aeon Xero Amarr The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:12:00 - [92] Let not age affect what a clone can do, but how the cloe can use the skills they already or currently possess. Unlike Lofty, im not a coward. And I got the proof to back it up. I might still be new compared to some of you. But some of you older people have fallen to me, because you are not a pirate of honor. A pirate who kills frigs, is one example. One who uses an exploit, is another. Unlike others here, im not afraid to challenge this so called great pirate. Its not how old a character is, but how the caracter can use the skills they already got.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:14:00 - [93] Edited by: lofty29 on 10/07/2007 00:18:44 Originally by: Aeon Xero I think one who uses an exploit that isnt coverd in the EULA is a coward. Now lofty, if you want to prove your a real man, why not step up to some great pvpers? Come to wherever alliances like Aftermath, BoB, Tri, FALL, etc etc and challenege them? Or are you too weak? Silly pirate wannabee, give us real pirates a bad name. I hope we cross paths one day silly boy, Ill be happy to avenege all those people who lost millions in ship and mods, to a exploit. Oh god, oh lord oh god! Uhm, ok then. I'll just go and fight the big scary alliances to prove I'm oh so so leet to you. Right Noo I'm quite happy sitting here FCing for INFOD every now and again, killing what I can and coasting along. It's quite fun, you know, being regarded as a good Pirate. Oh wait, no, sorry, I'm just a wannabe. I cant even say "Post with your main" because it appears you have. But oh my god, get a damned clue --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Aeon Xero Amarr The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:16:00 - [94] Edited by: Aeon Xero on 10/07/2007 00:17:52 Atleast Ive got a better clue than you. I dont need cheap tricks to bait my prey. You speak like you are a god in this game, yet your afraid of a big group. You attack rookies, and unwary pilots.. pilots that havent gone into low sec much if at all. Unlike others around my age, ive actually operated in 0.0 space, in low sec. Ive gone pirating, bounty hunting and so on. I know im the btter pirate, because as I said, I know how to use what I got to get my kill. You apparently need help. Its not how old a character is, but how the caracter can use the skills they already got.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:17:00 - [95] Originally by: Aeon Xero Let not age affect what a clone can do, but how the cloe can use the skills they already or currently possess. Unlike Lofty, im not a coward. And I got the proof to back it up. I might still be new compared to some of you. But some of you older people have fallen to me, because you are not a pirate of honor. A pirate who kills frigs, is one example. One who uses an exploit, is another. Unlike others here, im not afraid to challenge this so called great pirate. Ok, I know this link will get deleted but My killboard That's all my kills and losses in the last month. I'm hardly a 'Wannbe pirate' with no honor who exploits for all his kills. Infact, I dont actually consider these kills. They're more like big, high-profit NPCs. That said, I think you need to get your facts straight before you come-a-flaming me about being a noob. --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Aeon Xero Amarr The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:19:00 - [96] Edited by: Aeon Xero on 10/07/2007 00:19:51 Anyone who must use an exploit, no matter there age, no matter what else they have killed, still makes you a rookie pirate. Its not how old a character is, but how the caracter can use the skills they already got.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:22:00 - [97] Originally by: Aeon Xero Edited by: Aeon Xero on 10/07/2007 00:17:52 Atleast Ive got a better clue than you. I dont need cheap tricks to bait my prey. You speak like you are a god in this game, yet your afraid of a big group. You attack rookies, and unwary pilots.. pilots that havent gone into low sec much if at all. Unlike others around my age, ive actually operated in 0.0 space, in low sec. Ive gone pirating, bounty hunting and so on. I know im the btter pirate, because as I said, I know how to use what I got to get my kill. You apparently need help. Oh god Do I need cheap tricks to bait my prey? No, I don't need them but it certainly helps in this case, as I kind of like having a multi-billion ISK wallet. Surely that's what piracy is about? Preying on the unwary? Catching people off-guard to gain the advantage? But saying that my only targets are complete newbs is just...oh lord. I quite often go into 0.0, looking for kills. I have no quams about fighting a gang twice my size if I think I can win. Why engage if you know you'll be decimated anyway? Maybe you do know how to use what you have to get your kill, but I've got two years lowsec / 0.0 experience under my belt missy. I know exactly how to use what I have, and I don't feel it's boasting to say that I am the better pirate here... --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Aeon Xero Amarr The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:27:00 - [98] Then why use an unbannable exploit? Something cheap? And a gang twice your size, your not afraid of 2 people? I dont think a lot of people are. My chat is done, come find me one day, face to face we will meet, and me and you shall have our own little fight. No friends, no help. mono e mono (that means 1 vs 1). Until then lofty, I bid thee farewell. Its not how old a character is, but how the caracter can use the skills they already got.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:29:00 - [99] Name a place and a time my friend --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Reiisha Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:30:00 - [100] I knew i was right EVE History Wiki

Arrgs Retribution Corp.	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:33:00 - [101] Man, lofty threads are the best. My first video!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:38:00 - [102] Everyone with a clue and their dog knows how this works. While getting around the warning using the alt is a little tricksy... ANYONE WHO HAS THAT MUCH EXPENSIVE GEAR SHOULD DAMN WELL KNOW THE GAME MECHANICS AND KNOW NOT TO TRUST ANYONE FOR **** SAKE If you have that much stuff and you are so clueless, you deserve it, lofty does EVE a great service. -
NightmareX Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:38:00 - [103] Originally by: Aeon Xero Then why use an unbannable exploit? It's not an exploit, since if it's an exploit then lofty would be banned from EVE like 1 year ago. Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:40:00 - [104] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Aeon Xero Then why use an unbannable exploit? It's not an exploit, since if it's an exploit then lofty would be banned from EVE like 1 year ago. Indeed. Exploits are defined by CCP and CCP alone. What do you class as an exploit, Ms. Xero? --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Aeon Xero Amarr The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:41:00 - [105] Let me Alliance's contract end, and let me see where we will be moving to next. Our current contract ends this Friday. Its not how old a character is, but how the caracter can use the skills they already got.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:43:00 - [106] Originally by: Aeon Xero Let me Alliance's contract end, and let me see where we will be moving to next. Our current contract ends this Friday. Right on. However, I'm too lazy to move so you'd have to come to me --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Aeon Xero Amarr The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:54:00 - [107] Hence why I said mono e mono. And no having friends finish me off afer you get pod killed. Now goes time I log off for real life. Its not how old a character is, but how the caracter can use the skills they already got.
Fedaykinn kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:54:00 - [108] Edited by: Fedaykinn on 10/07/2007 01:01:29 dont aggro you as you have got a fat faction tank (hopefully) leave the gang and then the "victim" is no longer a valid war target, then they can attack back or just wait for concord? Ive never tried this myself but surely that would work
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:59:00 - [109] Originally by: Aeon Xero Hence why I said mono e mono. And no having friends finish me off afer you get pod killed. Now goes time I log off for real life. Oh my god. You really are an imbecile! First you say that "I dont find 2 people scary" implying that either I have no friends, or that I fly solo, and now my so-called friends will come and spank you because you, an 8 month old char who probably doesnt have full skills to fly any ship yet, beat me? Oh thats just rich --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Zarshand Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 01:00:00 - [110] i think this whole post is funny as hell

Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc	Posted - 2007.07.10 01:11:00 - [111] I hate it to say: old nice trick since War Dec! Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Aeon Xero Amarr The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.10 01:46:00 - [112] one so*****y..... cant even take a compliment i was giving him. you my friend i think take this game way too seriously. this will be my last post related to you until after our duel. Its not how old a character is, but how the caracter can use the skills they already got.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 01:53:00 - [113] Originally by: Aeon Xero one so*****y..... cant even take a compliment i was giving him. So implying that I am dishonorable is your way of complimenting someone? K. --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Mitsuko Anari	Posted - 2007.07.10 02:02:00 - [114] Thread Delivers. Remember to fraps it when you facepwn him lofty
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 02:03:00 - [115] Originally by: Mitsuko Anari Thread Delivers. Remember to fraps it when you facepwn him lofty Maybe --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
NightmareX Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 02:32:00 - [116] Oh and by the way, it's just pure fun to see that lofty is giving those high sec bears who run missions all day long a little PVP lession Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred
Atreides Horza Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.10 05:02:00 - [117] Darwin wins again. Lofty 4 president!
Siobhan Ni Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 07:19:00 - [118] Originally by: Aeon Xero one so*****y..... cant even take a compliment i was giving him. you my friend i think take this game way too seriously. this will be my last post related to you until after our duel. All this whining... I can only guess that he ganked one of carebear alts
Dr Slice kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.07.10 07:35:00 - [119] Originally by: Siobhan Ni Originally by: Aeon Xero one so*****y..... cant even take a compliment i was giving him. you my friend i think take this game way too seriously. this will be my last post related to you until after our duel. All this whining... I can only guess that he ganked one of carebear alts This. Its the same thing over and over again. Bears crying and the only thing they can do to vent this anger and frustration is flame on forums lol.
darth solo Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.07.10 09:01:00 - [120] a trap wouldnt be all that hard but would involve switching ships without him noticing. if it was myself id have an alt in the same ship at a safe, IE raven but fitted for combat rather than the mission ship he scanned. this would be fitted to take on his dom. when getting the convo id warp to my combat ship and switch up. then join the gang. try it. d solo. RECRUITING... visit www.celesapoc.com ingame channel "celespublic" for recruitment or chat

Shari Vegas Minmatar Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.07.10 09:08:00 - [121] Personally I praise lofty for doing his part in helping control the ISK seller and eBayer scourge.
Faekurias Federation Fleet Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.07.10 09:13:00 - [122] Lofty is win, but not even he can answer the riddle that is : WHy is caldari BS crap and Gallente Bs utter win? Mystery grows Give the Nighthawk back it's shieldrecharge!
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:09:00 - [123] Originally by: Faekurias Lofty is win, but not even he can answer the riddle that is : WHy is caldari BS crap and Gallente Bs utter win? Mystery grows Cus 2 heavy nos, 2 med nos and 2 med neut > tanks --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
PhantomVyper Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:39:00 - [124] Originally by: Aeon Xero No friends, no help. mono e mono (that means 1 vs 1). No it doesn't you prepubescent idiot! "Mano a mano" is what you probably meant, and even that means "hand to hand" and not "man to man" like you think!
Grant Smith Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:46:00 - [125] Now, I won't go over board and say that Lofty is uberwin, BUT, he has made a damn good profit in the last 4 days, of making over as many billions. Jealous? Yes. Me and my puny 270m. Love him? Yes, ofcourse. But why, why Akurion did you have to spoil it by opening your fat trap on the forums?
Callente Riveara Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:52:00 - [126] what do you spend it all on Lofty? If you just stay in high sec, and your tricks work already...where does it go? IMO, in RL, pirates were tricky bastards, so I see no reason to get all upset when a real tricky pirate, rather then a gung ho gun totaing maniac comes around. Just because its High Sec. doesnt mean its safe . You can still get scammed sitting in a police station by the right guy
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:53:00 - [127] Originally by: Aeon Xero Many many posts Lofty has flown in lowsec and 0.0. He simply does what he does in hisec to make ISK, it's how he earns an EVE living. Personally I think pirating for ISK is more "hardcore" than pirating for fun, if we're gonna go down that road Let's not, 'cause it's flamebait. If you are pirating for isk though you'll gank even frigates if nothing else is around; a well fitted frigate can still yield a good few hundred k better than nothing. If you're doing it for isk the means aren't important, just the profit. Kudos to Lofty and all people who make a living out of pvp
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 12:52:00 - [128] Originally by: Callente Riveara what do you spend it all on Lofty? If you just stay in high sec, and your tricks work already...where does it go? lol, 2 weeks ago I was -10. 8 months ago I was -10... I don't stay in Hi-sec, but it makes me loaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaads of isk when I do In a few weeks im headed back to lowsec for the upcoming awesomeness. I won't say more tho, or tassi will *****me --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Callente Riveara Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.10 12:55:00 - [129] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Callente Riveara what do you spend it all on Lofty? If you just stay in high sec, and your tricks work already...where does it go? lol, 2 weeks ago I was -10. 8 months ago I was -10... I don't stay in Hi-sec, but it makes me loaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaads of isk when I do In a few weeks im headed back to lowsec for the upcoming awesomeness. I won't say more tho, or tassi will *****me Well what region do you frequent? Just so i can stay the hell out of it you know..
Faekurias Federation Fleet Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.07.10 13:01:00 - [130] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Faekurias Lofty is win, but not even he can answer the riddle that is : WHy is caldari BS crap and Gallente Bs utter win? Mystery grows Cus 2 heavy nos, 2 med nos and 2 med neut > tanks But what if you do it the passive way? Although, sacrificed DPS and no drone space :/ Give the Nighthawk back it's shieldrecharge!

Faekurias Federation Fleet Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.07.10 13:03:00 - [131] Originally by: Grant Smith Now, I won't go over board and say that Lofty is uberwin, BUT, he has made a damn good profit in the last 4 days, of making over as many billions. Jealous? Yes. Me and my puny 270m. Love him? Yes, ofcourse. But why, why Akurion did you have to spoil it by opening your fat trap on the forums? Lol I was about to ask who Akurion was, thought it was some unknown poster, then I read the OP and DANG, it was Akurion! lol This so quickly turned into "Lofty ftw" that I forgot all about Akurion :/ Give the Nighthawk back it's shieldrecharge!
NeverL Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.10 13:06:00 - [132] gooooooooo lofty29 ----------------- My dream is to become the best forum warrior there is. Even better then Molle Sir.
Krysta Gemme	Posted - 2007.07.10 13:08:00 - [133] You know last I checked this was the Crime and Punishment forum. Crime is a pirates way, deceit is a pirate's tool, exploitation of people in the outer fringes of law is what makes a pirate. I'm a new player to Eve. This game is a PvP game. Hi sec means HIGH SECURITY, not Immunity. All sectors of this game are PvP oriented. There is no PvE in Eve except for the act of killing NPC's. However when you do so, you're still in a PvP battleground, in PvP space in a very PvP game. You consent to PvP the minute you log in. You consent to be wary everywhere you go, you reap the consequences when you don't. In any FFA game, like Ultima Online, you consent to being a target of anyone at any time. If you join a group, and a stranger you do not know joins... you must realise he may possibly be an enemy. They both might be, you just joined a complete strangers party. You didn't watch your back, you didn't question the possibility of "what if" in a game where anybody can fire on anybody at any time. You felt the blanket of the police would have saved you. In real life, most cities are protected by police and the law, does that mean your naive ass wouldn't watch your back? This isn't an exploit because it isn't up to CCP to think for the player. If this happened to me, I'd have nobody to blame than myself. Learn some responsibility. You got punk'd. Suck it up, and drive on.
K'reemy G'udness Gallente Delicious	Posted - 2007.07.10 13:19:00 - [134] Hey guys, I know that you guys play this game like it's your job and never miss a trick on the forums, but the original thread about this came at a time when I wasn't playing eve, so I appreciate the repost. So, to the OP, thanks for the tip. I'd like to try this on some mission prostitutes myself, and though I'm sure you meant it as a warning, I take it as new tool in an arsenal. Lofty, I don't want to sound g@y or anything, but you give me wood. Sincerely, K'reemy --- Named Item List
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 14:26:00 - [135] Originally by: Callente Riveara Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Callente Riveara what do you spend it all on Lofty? If you just stay in high sec, and your tricks work already...where does it go? lol, 2 weeks ago I was -10. 8 months ago I was -10... I don't stay in Hi-sec, but it makes me loaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaads of isk when I do In a few weeks im headed back to lowsec for the upcoming awesomeness. I won't say more tho, or tassi will *****me Well what region do you frequent? Just so i can stay the hell out of it you know.. Well at the moment INFOD are stationed in The Forge lowsec. We frequently go into Geminate, trying to eradicate the dirty residents there --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Zardenim	Posted - 2007.07.10 14:58:00 - [136] lofty ftw \o/
Sama Warui	Posted - 2007.07.10 15:26:00 - [137] Am I missing something here, or whats stopping the targets' corp members coming for the rescue? Even if lofty29 gets the right to attack via warring gang, he should still get flagged to the corp of hes victim, right? Deadspace tanked ship should hold long enough to change the gang to warp in the friendlies who will have the rights to fire on lofty29. Shouldnt be too hard to make it work. Just one ship able to tackle and jam lofty29s ship should be enough to turn the tables.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 15:27:00 - [138] Originally by: Sama Warui Am I missing something here, or whats stopping the targets' corp members coming for the rescue? Even if lofty29 gets the right to attack via warring gang, he should still get flagged to the corp of hes victim, right? Deadspace tanked ship should hold long enough to change the gang to warp in the friendlies who will have the rights to fire on lofty29. Shouldnt be too hard to make it work. Just one ship able to tackle and jam lofty29s ship should be enough to turn the tables. Nope. Corp will get concordokkend. What people could do is send in a single scorp w/ 8 gal jammers. Thats a near-perfect chance to jam me. If it works, they get away with just a scorp loss. If not, they loose a scorp --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.10 15:33:00 - [139] really this would not be a problem if people simply fit for pvp. The reason his targets die is they dont have any defense for his tactic because they setup only for the mission they are going to run. You want to be safe from this, then always run a pvp fit on your missions, yes they might take a bit longer, but you can at least defend your self :) and maybe even get a nice pirate kill in the process. Recruiting Terrorists
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 15:46:00 - [140] Originally by: Ryas Nia really this would not be a problem if people simply fit for pvp. The reason his targets die is they dont have any defense for his tactic because they setup only for the mission they are going to run. You want to be safe from this, then always run a pvp fit on your missions, yes they might take a bit longer, but you can at least defend your self :) and maybe even get a nice pirate kill in the process. Lol. I'm fit for PVP in possibly one of the most imba fits ingame - 4 nos 2 neut dominix. Your cap will run dry in about 2 minutes, and I can tank about 1k DPS Running a PVP fit doesnt really help too much. --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt

Celestal	Posted - 2007.07.10 15:59:00 - [141] Originally by: Callente Riveara what do you spend it all on Lofty? If you just stay in high sec, and your tricks work already...where does it go? He spends it on ships + equip to try learn proper pvp ( you know where the other ships get a chance to fire back ). One of his recent attempts created the expression " to do a lofty " meaning to setup a faction bs with a multi billion setup , enter low sec/0.0 , get ransomed/pay a multi billion ransom , then soon after get multi billion ship blown up . All without killing any ship , not even a shuttle/rookie ship.
Horsefly Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 16:30:00 - [142] Originally by: Grant Smith Now, I won't go over board and say that Lofty is uberwin, BUT, he has made a damn good profit in the last 4 days, of making over as many billions. Jealous? Yes. Me and my puny 270m. Love him? Yes, ofcourse. But why, why Akurion did you have to spoil it by opening your fat trap on the forums? This is excatly why I am going to institute a new tax starting 4 weeks ago. I'm calling it "Lofty pays Horse 1 bil for the pleasure of being his pet tax" tax. I will be expecting 250 mil now and I will be nice and take it in 50 mil installments once a week for 25 weeks. Thanks lofty and have a wonderful day. Now on a side note. I cant remember who was threating him with a war dec, but please do we are currently in the market for more targets and if you feel you make the qualifications please submit it by war dec'n us and the interviews will begin in 24 hours.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 16:37:00 - [143] Originally by: Celestal Originally by: Callente Riveara what do you spend it all on Lofty? If you just stay in high sec, and your tricks work already...where does it go? He spends it on ships + equip to try learn proper pvp ( you know where the other ships get a chance to fire back ). One of his recent attempts created the expression " to do a lofty " meaning to setup a faction bs with a multi billion setup , enter low sec/0.0 , get ransomed/pay a multi billion ransom , then soon after get multi billion ship blown up . All without killing any ship , not even a shuttle/rookie ship. Recent? Haha, K. Do I care that I lost it? Really? No not really. It seems that you are just a narrow-minded troll who doesn't know anything about the person who he's trying to flame... Maybe you're just jealous that I've more ISK than you? Maybe? Just a little? Yeah I think so... --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Horsefly Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 16:54:00 - [144] Originally by: lofty29 More Stuff I see your avoiding the tax still. New tax in effect. 10 Mil per post on E-Online forums. Mwuahahahahahaha I be rich me thinks.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 17:00:00 - [145] Originally by: Horsefly Originally by: lofty29 More Stuff I see your avoiding the tax still. New tax in effect. 10 Mil per post on E-Online forums. Mwuahahahahahaha I be rich me thinks. No. --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Shiner BockBeer Go Go Gadget ForumPostingAlt	Posted - 2007.07.10 23:01:00 - [146] So if the victim just leaves the gang after getting shot at but before shooting back, that doesn't change anything?
0ss0 Minmatar 132nd Thukker Brigade FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.07.11 00:48:00 - [147] You simply do not allow a war dec'd pilot to join the gang until all current pilots iether accept him or leave gang. If ganged pilot is in warp then the invited pilot must wait in limbo. Hell gang invites already have a timer, what would be hard about this solution? FOUNDATION Kill Board
Vincenzo Delloro Amarr Lux et Veritas	Posted - 2007.07.11 01:06:00 - [148] Originally by: Dr Slice Originally by: Siobhan Ni Originally by: Aeon Xero one so*****y..... cant even take a compliment i was giving him. you my friend i think take this game way too seriously. this will be my last post related to you until after our duel. All this whining... I can only guess that he ganked one of carebear alts This. Its the same thing over and over again. Bears crying and the only thing they can do to vent this anger and frustration is flame on forums lol. To be fair, whining on the forums is as integral a part of this game as piracy and scamming. It's no more likely to go away either. /carebear and proud of it
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.07.11 09:55:00 - [149] Originally by: T'Renn Hey, Voogru - I don't mean to hijack a perfectly epic lofty thread, but I gotta know how I can book passage on the opux luxury yacht? I see it there and it looks like such a good holiday. What are rates for 3 day packages? I'm totally serious. I want to hang out on the opux. 500M isk. I once recieved an EVE Mail from a guy wanting to see the opux and he asked me how much to view it, wanting him to go away I said "200M ISK"... The SOB sent it. So I jacked the price up to 300m... and someone else paid. 400m... same. No one's paid 500m yet tho. Reason for astronomical prices = keep gankers like lofty29 away. The price does include the ability to fly it on SISI though. But once I get an empire POS, suicide ganking the yacht wont be too easy to do, so I might be able to do public viewings of the yacht without worry of gankers.
gfldex Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.11 13:22:00 - [150] Originally by: Tarhess I'm not really sure why this is even there in the first place. There's no benefit to the person in the gang at all as they can't shoot war targets just because they joined your gang and anyone who is at war is not going to have their carebear alts join them in gangs anyways. This mechanic seems to be an archaic leftover that at this point should be deprecated from the code. Gang Assist Modules -- There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.

lofty29 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.11 13:26:00 - [151] Edited by: lofty29 on 11/07/2007 13:28:23 Originally by: voogru Reason for astronomical prices = keep gankers like lofty29 away. The price does include the ability to fly it on SISI though. I wouldnt gank the Opux. I want it for myself Originally by: 0ss0 You simply do not allow a war dec'd pilot to join the gang until all current pilots iether accept him or leave gang. If ganged pilot is in warp then the invited pilot must wait in limbo. Hell gang invites already have a timer, what would be hard about this solution? That would be the worst solution ever. Imagine a 100 man fleet forming up, whom are all in a war with who they are off to fight. Every member would have to accept everyone into the gang. All it would take would be one AFK person to completely screw the gang over. Just remove the mechanic all together, tbh. --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.11 13:50:00 - [152] Question.. what happens if the target leave the gang after you started firing on it? If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:00:00 - [153] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Question.. what happens if the target leave the gang after you started firing on it? Absolutely nothing. Assuming the scammer targets and aggresses you before you leave the gang, he can keep attacking until you are dead.
Kodiak31415 An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:20:00 - [154] TBH if you have a ship that has expensive enough fittings to become a target, you have been playing the game long enough to avoid this. Either that or you bought your account/ship/mods off ebay and deserve to lose it all anyway. _______________________________ Pleese exucse any seplling erorr's in tihs psot
Katana Silvayne	Posted - 2007.07.12 09:38:00 - [155] ok anyone with half a brain knows 'you dont accept accept gang invites with peeps you dont know' !!! and a 3 min convo with someone you just met does NOT mean you know them!!!! A valuable lesson that one should not have to learn the hard way - EMPIRE IS NOT SAFE......
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:23:00 - [156] Quote: ok anyone with half a brain knows 'you dont accept accept gang invites with peeps you dont know' !!! and a 3 min convo with someone you just met does NOT mean you know them!!!! Yeah, be damned if we want strangers interacting in an MMO in safe space... Building the homestead
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.07.13 16:18:00 - [157] Originally by: Katana Silvayne ok anyone with half a brain knows 'you dont accept accept gang invites with peeps you dont know' !!! and a 3 min convo with someone you just met does NOT mean you know them!!!! A valuable lesson that one should not have to learn the hard way - EMPIRE IS NOT SAFE...... That's fine but being unsafe should not be done with EXPLOITS. A Minmater City... Cool! My Skills
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.13 16:25:00 - [158] Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: ok anyone with half a brain knows 'you dont accept accept gang invites with peeps you dont know' !!! and a 3 min convo with someone you just met does NOT mean you know them!!!! Yeah, be damned if we want strangers interacting in an MMO in safe space... There is no such thing as safe space. It's called high security. That means that the cops will show up to punish people who operate outside the rules. If you operate within the rules, then the cops don't do anything. Lofty's method has been petitioned numerous times and it's not an exploit. Some people in this game kill other people who don't understand how gangs work. Other people kill other people who cannot use a scanner. Other people make vast amounts of ISK off people who don't understand how the market works. None of these people are exploiting - they are just using their superior understanding of the game to win. If you don't like it, go back to singleplayer games.
MonwrathDisortium D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.13 18:48:00 - [159] If you wait until he targets and then leave gang, the tables are turned. He will be free game and get concorded as well. A prudent person would know a gank as soon as they came out of warp and just leave gang. I suppose most of his victims are cuddly carebears who havent heard a shot fired in anger. However props to lofty for at least making them think a bit about thier safety. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Jamier Legov Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.07.13 19:45:00 - [160] Quote: If you wait until he targets and then leave gang, the tables are turned. Good luck with that, my guess is he has his weapons cycled, and as soon as he targets from close range, you have agro. One solution is, when someone asks for help on anything but the hardest level 4 mission, just switch out of your uber mission running ship, into the t1 fitted cruiser. If it's ligit, you can still help them. If its a scam, well, you lose a little, they get a kill, and its all a game in the end. And if someone is asking random strangers for help with a lvl4 mission, get to know them well first. Even if its not a scam, its a good way to lose your ship when they agro the wrong npc. And thanks to the op! I've been in game for just under a year, had not heard of this, and have only been in one ward dec so never really understood all the mechanics of it. Good discussion, if you leave out all the "I'm so uber/your a care bear" and the "your a scammer/I'm the good guy" crap.

Shinjuro Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:01:00 - [161] <3 Lofty Here is your solution.. War Dec us
Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.14 16:40:00 - [162] Originally by: MonwrathDisortium If you wait until he targets and then leave gang, the tables are turned. He will be free game and get concorded as well. A prudent person would know a gank as soon as they came out of warp and just leave gang. I suppose most of his victims are cuddly carebears who havent heard a shot fired in anger. However props to lofty for at least making them think a bit about thier safety. Mm, I don't think it's quite that easy. Lofty's Dominix (Amplus Frons, in case anyone is curious) runs with two Sensor Booster IIs. He can lock a battleship-sized target in just a few seconds, and he already has his weapons primed, just waiting for a target lock to activate. From the moment you start to deccelerate out of warp and notice a war-target on your overview, you have maybe three seconds to figure out that an at-war gang member has joined your gang, then go through the mechanics of leaving the gang. I consider myself a competent player and I would honestly be surprised if I could manage that feat without any advance notice. I am not opposed to scams that depend on a person's greed to function (like most market scams do). This scam, however, works because a person decides he wants to help someone. The only mistake the person makes is joining a stranger's gang to help them with a mission. From that simple action, a loophole in the gang/war mechanics allows Lofty to kill his target without any other action on the victim's part. In case I have not made my position clear enough, I believe this loophole should be closed.
Morrigan Allastrine	Posted - 2007.07.15 06:50:00 - [163] Originally by: Akurion Originally by: Kagura Nikon Question.. what happens if the target leave the gang after you started firing on it? Absolutely nothing. Assuming the scammer targets and aggresses you before you leave the gang, he can keep attacking until you are dead. Indeed, but you could leave Lofty's gang, join the one you pre-formed with your friends and let them warp to you. Sayonara Lofty.... Then you will have turned the roles: you're the bait and he has fallen for it. YARR!! Just keep your boat alive while you do all this. Good tactic btw, but the one falling for the bait is the stupid one, and that's the OP, not Lofty ;-) BTW: Lofty will prolly warp off once you quit the gang. He has enough targets who are stupid enough to join gang with him, he doesn't need your wreck/cargo/mods specifically...
VinceNoir Amarr Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:46:00 - [164] Originally by: Akurion Edited by: Akurion on 10/07/2007 15:11:15 When Lofty posted about his adventures in Dodixie the other day, I felt obligated as an anti-pirate to investigate how it works, and if possible set a counter-trap for him. After analyzing how he does it, I've concluded that there is probably no reasonable way short of declaring war on his corp to stop him, even in the act. As far as Concorde is concerned, his piracy is completely legal. Maybe you should spend a little more time helping to fight in Deklein and a little less time figuring out Lofty's h4x methods. Originally by: "Shanda Captison" Vince, you can't even spell ECM m8
Benito Ivanov Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.15 08:12:00 - [165] Originally by: Akurion Lofty's Dominix (Amplus Frons, in case anyone is curious) runs with two Sensor Booster IIs. He can lock a battleship-sized target in just a few seconds, and he already has his weapons primed, just waiting for a target lock to activate. Rawrawar. (Lofty here). I only run 1 SB, 2 webs Takes me 4 seconds to lock a BS (max skills ftw) and I dont prime any weapons beforehand, for the exact opposite reason you think I have them primed. If someone leaves the gang when I have all my weapons ready, I have 4 - 0 seconds to unprime them all. This is incredibly hard, and usually ends in concordokken. So the only thing I have active is my scram. If they leave, blam I shut it off Also, listen to vince --------------------------------- Carebearin' in a hi-sec near you!
Kronn Blackthorne 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.15 11:33:00 - [166] u need a logitech G15 keyboard lofty , then u can activate all guns with just 1 key ..... :) The Frenchy
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.15 12:40:00 - [167] This particular 'feature' is also known to have hilarious consequences when joining an event.
Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.15 13:24:00 - [168] Originally by: Morrigan Allastrine Originally by: Akurion Originally by: Kagura Nikon Question.. what happens if the target leave the gang after you started firing on it? Absolutely nothing. Assuming the scammer targets and aggresses you before you leave the gang, he can keep attacking until you are dead. Indeed, but you could leave Lofty's gang, join the one you pre-formed with your friends and let them warp to you. Sayonara Lofty.... Then you will have turned the roles: you're the bait and he has fallen for it. YARR!! Just keep your boat alive while you do all this. Good tactic btw, but the one falling for the bait is the stupid one, and that's the OP, not Lofty ;-) BTW: Lofty will prolly warp off once you quit the gang. He has enough targets who are stupid enough to join gang with him, he doesn't need your wreck/cargo/mods specifically... What good would having your friends warp to you do? They wouldn't be able to attack him. I guess they could remote rep/cap boost you, but if they take any action against Lofty they'd get CONCORDED.
Webster Belken	Posted - 2007.07.15 18:47:00 - [169] If someone legitametly needs help with a mission in High-Sec you DO NOT have to gang with them. You just need the guy needing help to bookmark the location (gate entrance) and then return and give you a copy of the bookmark. Since High-Sec doesnt allow POS to aggress unless at war or if agressed first, then the only "trap" here is if the bookmark leads to the middle of a swarm of NPC's. The mission runner can mitigate the danger by first warping to a Safe Spot and then warping to 70-100km away from bookmark (warping out if need be) [warping to the SS first means the other party can't gauge from what direction you will be coming in from and it makes it harder to set the bookmark in a bad spot]. To copy a bookmark, open your people and places window and go to the window with all of your bookmarks. Then click on a bookmark, hold down SHIFT, and drag it to your hangar or cargo hold. To import a copied bookmark drag it from your hangar or cargo hold and put drop it in your people and places window. You can drop the bookmark right on a folder to sort them instantly into that folder. The only downside to this is you can't share loot/bounties and some of the wrecks will be yellow to you. Don't be greedy - leave the yellows alone! This won't stop the lofties of EVE from scamming and griefing amateur players, but it will mean they will need to become more inventive.
Sandra Jones	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:03:00 - [170] that is a firbolg, an amarrian fighter drone used by carriers...

heheheh Singularity.	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:05:00 - [171] im still laughing about the fact that you call yourself antipirates
CrimsonLobo Caldari Southern Cross Incorporated Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.07.17 18:08:00 - [172] If i am honest, it is quite impressive, you got to admit.
ElweSingollo Starlancers Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.07.17 21:16:00 - [173] hmm this happened to a ex corp mates raven up in Caldari space and he petitioned it got his raven back and was told it was an exploit to do this but there you go just goes to show half the GM's don't even know what they have said themselves in the past . As to what Lofty is doing he is a lamer as he always has been maybe an inventive lamer but still a lamer. CCP and Eve Online... It's not a bug, it's a feature *In Before I Get M* Again*
Tarkam Caldari Dirt Nap Squad FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.17 21:44:00 - [174] Lofty its things like this that make people quit eve On a side note good job :) and keep yarring Why dont we all just get along.
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.07.21 12:38:00 - [175] I still wonder why this hasnt been classed as an exploit long ago. Ship lovers click here
lofty29 Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.07.21 14:47:00 - [176] Originally by: Hellspawn01 I still wonder why this hasnt been classed as an exploit long ago. Because CCP love to see people like you whine so, so hard on the forums --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Tempest Kane Amarr Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:17:00 - [177] Their is no way this is a exploite. its within the game mechanics and their is a warning given when joining the gang that you are a valid target for any war dec's should you choose to commit to such a gang. Idiots fall for it. And frankly most of them are isk sellers, so great stuff.
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:05:00 - [178] Originally by: Tempest Kane Their is no way this is a exploite. its within the game mechanics and their is a warning given when joining the gang that you are a valid target for any war dec's should you choose to commit to such a gang. Idiots fall for it. And frankly most of them are isk sellers, so great stuff. You get a warning when a war target joins your gang? News to me. As for isk sellers, if you kill only those, you get my vote for continueing. Till then, I just find it lame. Ship lovers click here
Josh Causto Gallente Fatalix Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:34:00 - [179] Hai, I'm an anti-pirate and love what Lofty is doing. Don't trust anyone in EVE, not for one minute. Don't join a gang with someone you just met because they seem friendly. You have no idea what they are about to do. Originally by: Speed Devil Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Everytime you fit anything other than a laser on our ships, babies die. and when ya fit lasers on your ships nothing dies
lofty29 Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:37:00 - [180] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Tempest Kane Their is no way this is a exploite. its within the game mechanics and their is a warning given when joining the gang that you are a valid target for any war dec's should you choose to commit to such a gang. Idiots fall for it. And frankly most of them are isk sellers, so great stuff. You get a warning when a war target joins your gang? News to me. As for isk sellers, if you kill only those, you get my vote for continueing. Till then, I just find it lame. And I thought you could read. He said there is a warning, never gave a time when this is given. And yes, you get a warning when you enter a gang, if it is warring or not. The one you receive when you enter a non-warring gang is not as prominent, but it is there nonetheless. --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt

R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:52:00 - [181] This was previously fixed and newly broken - there were patch notes when it was fixed, and no patch notes when it was broken again. It used to be that the 'mark' in this story would only become a valid target once he had engaged the war target. Bad luck if you've had this happen, but after a week or more of it, everybody should be aware before they fix it again - don't join a gang with people you don't trust unless you are the leader (also don't give ppl you don't trust wing or squad command). DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Uthaes Gallente AFK	Posted - 2007.07.23 19:53:00 - [182] bumping this is an exploit .. pls CCP make a public announce like with the other scams ...........
Zaqar	Posted - 2007.07.23 20:01:00 - [183] this isn't an exploit unless CCP say it is
Tyranne Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.25 21:52:00 - [184] Thanks for the heads up.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.07.26 00:23:00 - [185] Originally by: R3dSh1ft It used to be that the 'mark' in this story would only become a valid target once he had engaged the war target. Uh, no dude... --- Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt
Blue Wraith	Posted - 2007.08.17 00:43:00 - [186] Edited by: Blue Wraith on 17/08/2007 00:45:04 My friend, who has helped dozens of strangers with their missions, got bitten by this for the first time recently. He's such a nice guy, always willing to help. It's truly a shame that only someone nice enough to help people will get hurt by this exploit. I say retroactively ban everyone who has used this exploit. Then fix the exploit. Devs, please comment on this?
Devian 666 Sectoid Technologies	Posted - 2007.08.17 00:52:00 - [187] Originally by: Blue Wraith Edited by: Blue Wraith on 17/08/2007 00:45:04 My friend, who has helped dozens of strangers with their missions, got bitten by this for the first time recently. He's such a nice guy, always willing to help. It's truly a shame that only someone nice enough to help people will get hurt by this exploit. I say retroactively ban everyone who has used this exploit. Then fix the exploit. Devs, please comment on this? This isn't an exploit and your post is flamebait. If you discover an exploit petition it rather than moan in the forum without reading the thread properly. Also post with your main as I can see from your sig that you have no isk. I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain.
NightmareX Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.17 00:52:00 - [188] Edited by: NightmareX on 17/08/2007 00:52:50 Originally by: Blue Wraith Edited by: Blue Wraith on 17/08/2007 00:45:04 My friend, who has helped dozens of strangers with their missions, got bitten by this for the first time recently. He's such a nice guy, always willing to help. It's truly a shame that only someone nice enough to help people will get hurt by this exploit. I say retroactively ban everyone who has used this exploit. Then fix the exploit. Devs, please comment on this? The devs won't ban anyone for doing this as long it's not an exploit. And to make sure you'll get it, lofty29 did even petition him self before he started to do this to be sure that he wouldn't do any stupid things, so it's not an exploit. If this have been an exploit, lofty would be banned from EVE over 1 year ago.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.17 00:55:00 - [189] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/08/2007 00:52:50 Originally by: Blue Wraith Edited by: Blue Wraith on 17/08/2007 00:45:04 My friend, who has helped dozens of strangers with their missions, got bitten by this for the first time recently. He's such a nice guy, always willing to help. It's truly a shame that only someone nice enough to help people will get hurt by this exploit. I say retroactively ban everyone who has used this exploit. Then fix the exploit. Devs, please comment on this? The devs won't ban anyone for doing this as long it's not an exploit. And to make sure you'll get it, lofty29 did even petition him self before he started to do this to be sure that he wouldn't do any stupid things, so it's not an exploit. If this have been an exploit, lofty would be banned from EVE over 1 year ago. QFT. I value my eve account more than any other of my current posessions, and wouldn't do anything to jepordise it. --- Project Mayhem 2
Synical Light Amarr Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.08.17 01:40:00 - [190] Originally by: lofty29 OH NOES! PEOPLE KNOW!!!!11!11 Does it matter? Well.... yeah... You'll need a new scam Dumbledore returned from the dead and declared it hammertime, harry proceeded to break it down and Voldemort can't touch him.

lofty29 Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.17 01:52:00 - [191] Originally by: Synical Light Originally by: lofty29 OH NOES! PEOPLE KNOW!!!!11!11 Does it matter? Well.... yeah... You'll need a new scam Dude, every time I did this I had numerous threads on the forums going 'OMFG LOFTY IS DOING XXX AND DOING IT LIKE THIS WATCH OUT!!' I never got a lack of targets... --- Project Mayhem 2
therootofallevil	Posted - 2007.08.17 02:15:00 - [192] so what happens when the victim drops gang as he is getting shot at... then he gets to loot lofty after concord rapes him ?
LittleBar	Posted - 2007.08.17 03:32:00 - [193] I think we may have wandered away from some valid points raised by Akurion about effect on PVE. The latest statistics I read are that roughly 80% of EVE players never go into low space, specifically because they don't want to play PVP. Mission runners enjoy PVE, a very different kind of EVE. You have to be set up specifically for the hardest missions and a PVP set up is not efficient for hard mission running. There are many EVE players who wish to play that kind of EVE, why should they not be allowed that privilage? Just as the many posts praising Pirating are allowed that kind of EVE in low space? A reason that lofty's form of high space pirating may be considered (at least theoreticaly) an exploit is that he gets huge ISK for very little effort, just like macro miners and that IS considered an exploit. As a form of parasitism it works only because very few people do it. Since it is so efficient at raising ISK if many people started to do it, the "host" would die. CCP has deliberatly setup a PVE form of EVE, even promoting it with storylines and newflashes. If lofty's high return on investment technic become "popular" they will have permitted a form of play that kills part of the game. On a philosophical note, all those who are praising lofty's career are in effect saying that Evil is both a "good" in EVE but the only practical way to play. Historical real world examples do not provide proof of this philisophical position and those societies that have tried to adopt it have collapsed. (This could be debated in a different area) But if CCP does decide that this is the most "noble" form of practial ISK farming, then they have committed an implied breach of contract with all those PVE players they have encouraged to engage in PVE as a career (not to mention the effect this could have on their negotations with China if it were pointed out. That government is a bit paranoid about promoting antisocial/psychotic behavior, even in games.) This not an attack on lofty or any particular pirate, but raising again the question of is PVE a valid part of EVE or not? I myself have helped over 100 players with complicated/hard missions as the learning curve in EVE can be steep. Only once was I scammed and that was because of a video bug that didn't let me see the gang window and somehow my attempts to leave the gang didn't work till suddenly I was taking fire and of course by then it was too late. With the help of my corp which makes this game fun, despite antisocial behaviors of others, I have recovered and gone on the enjoy EVE. But never again quite as much as I did, for that part of EVE I was promised by CCP I didn't have to play in have been made very real. Many of you love that form of EVE, others of us don't. I used to have 3 accounts, now I have one. The people in my corp keep me here and I am glad. But I still believe that this form of ISK farming should be nerfed. It is too easy to abuse and has too great a probabilty of doing long term damage to the economic substructure of the game if it become more common. Remember, CCP to survive and grow as a game takes numbers and many new players. Many of those will work six months to a year to get good at missions and get into a ship capable of soloing lvl 4 missions. To lose it in less than five minutes by "induced accident" or "malice of forthought" could cause many of them to leave. While this may not bother older pirates and low space specialists, they are the people that pay for new servers and dev time. As older players we have learned an enormous amount about how EVE works, but remember how steep the learning curve is for new players, and even moderatly well setup mission runners may still be "new" compared to many of you. If lofty's favorite ISK farming method is nerfed, I'm sure he will still make money. But I see benefits for the game as a whole in increased population and longevity that makes it a better game for all of us. I know this was long, thanks.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.17 03:33:00 - [194] Originally by: LittleBar The latest statistics I read are that roughly 80% of EVE players never go into low space I doubt that there's only 40,000 in lowsec / 0.0... --- Project Mayhem 2
Zimjin Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.17 03:51:00 - [195] The real solution to this is to put it in the tutorial. "Be careful when joining gangs with people you don't know, as there are ways you can be made valid for attack even in high security sectors." Unless I missed it, there is no such notice in the game. The mechanics of flagging aren't well explained. As for the actual strategy, meh. It's basically a "carebear PK" strategy. That is, it's the way you would PvP if you were basically a carebear and wanted a way to PvP where it involves no risk. It's equivilent to level 70 hunters in that other game going to low level PvP areas to one-shot opponets. It's PvP for carebears. It should be allowed, but I think if you do it, your Yarr license gets temporarily revoked. The language filter will automatically replace all of your YARRs with Carebear Stares for a period of 2 weeks, and your avatar is changed to Hello Kitty.
Brisco County	Posted - 2007.08.17 08:45:00 - [196] All CCP would really need to do is pop up a notice when someone else joins the gang that is at war. Something to the extent of "A player that joined your gang and is not in your alliance is at war with another corporation. This will put you at war. Leave Gang? yes/no" It sounds like an exploit to me. You gain kill rights on someone just by inviting them to a gang, completely circumventing CCP's agro rules. It's like having a buddy say "Hey, let's go to the pub for a drink." And walking through the door, you notice a sign that reads "This may or may not be a *bar. Enter at the risk of your own anal virginity." And as soon as you start walking to a stool, some hole throws you on the ground and starts ** you in the *. You shouldn't be put in situations like that in RL. Nobody should. And you shouldn't be put in situations like that in Eve. Ever.
brocksamson316	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:17:00 - [197] Edited by: brocksamson316 on 17/08/2007 17:17:35 Originally by: Brisco County All CCP would really need to do is pop up a notice when someone else joins the gang that is at war. Something to the extent of "A player that joined your gang and is not in your alliance is at war with another corporation. This will put you at war. Leave Gang? yes/no" It sounds like an exploit to me. You gain kill rights on someone just by inviting them to a gang, completely circumventing CCP's agro rules. It's like having a buddy say "Hey, let's go to the pub for a drink." And walking through the door, you notice a sign that reads "This may or may not be a *bar. Enter at the risk of your own anal virginity." And as soon as you start walking to a stool, some hole throws you on the ground and starts ** you in the *. You shouldn't be put in situations like that in RL. Nobody should. And you shouldn't be put in situations like that in Eve. Ever. That is probably the funniest thing i have ever read on a forum in my entire life, i salute you for the comic genius of that post.
lofty29 Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:33:00 - [198] Originally by: Brisco County All CCP would really need to do is pop up a notice when someone else joins the gang that is at war. Something to the extent of "A player that joined your gang and is not in your alliance is at war with another corporation. This will put you at war. Leave Gang? yes/no" Ignorance killed the carebear. There is a warning when you join either a warring or non-warring gang. --- Project Mayhem 2
Druid R System-Lords Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:43:00 - [199] and i remember lofty when he was just a little noob in syndicate, now hes got more isk than i've ever dreamed about, and famous to boot!! fair play to ya, i find it very funny!
Avan Strega Obsidian Inc. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.18 02:19:00 - [200] Originally by: Brisco County It's like having a buddy say "Hey, let's go to the pub for a drink." And walking through the door, you notice a sign that reads "This may or may not be a *bar. Enter at the risk of your own anal virginity." And as soon as you start walking to a stool, some hole throws you on the ground and starts ** you in the . sorry wtf? this is the worst analogy i have ever read, for so many reasons, first of which is that your bigoted opinion seems to be that anyone entering a ** bar is immediately raped and on the general subject of the thread, to repeat what others have said: it's not an exploit high-sec is not 100% safe and isn't meant to be there's simple ways to avoid being ganked in this way as long as you use your brain this is how CCP want the game to be

Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.18 02:46:00 - [201] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 18/08/2007 02:48:27 Originally by: Avan Strega there's simple ways to avoid being ganked in this way as long as you use your brain this is how CCP want the game to be CCP wants the game to be like this? The simple way to avoid it is to refuse to help your fellow players. Lofty preys on people looking to lend a hand and be nice. A mate of mine was mining recently and saw another player in the belt he was in. Since my mate has some mining bonuses he asked the other player if he wanted to gang. He got a summary, "F--k Off" from the other guy. I have no doubt that response is due to either having been on the receiving end of a scam like this or knowing someone who has (or read about it). What Lofty is doing may not be an exploit but I cannot see how you could say EVE is a better place for it.
Liisa Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.18 02:53:00 - [202] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 18/08/2007 02:48:27 Originally by: Avan Strega there's simple ways to avoid being ganked in this way as long as you use your brain this is how CCP want the game to be CCP wants the game to be like this? The simple way to avoid it is to refuse to help your fellow players. Lofty preys on people looking to lend a hand and be nice. A mate of mine was mining recently and saw another player in the belt he was in. Since my mate has some mining bonuses he asked the other player if he wanted to gang. He got a summary, "F--k Off" from the other guy. I have no doubt that response is due to either having been on the receiving end of a scam like this or knowing someone who has (or read about it). What Lofty is doing may not be an exploit but I cannot see how you could say EVE is a better place for it. I think the reason why CCP does not really ***** down is because Lofty and others who do this choose their targets. They don't gank every single t2 fitted battleship, but take only the high return, faction/deadspace/officer fitted battleships. Kill two or three of those and you are up 1 bil. Heck, some people even eject from deadspace fitted navy megathrons worth over 2 billion when lofty fires on them, not exactly the smartest thing to do... Anyway, back to my point: it does not hurt most mission runners. It only hurts a few either a)really rich or b)ebaying/gtc isk buying players. Most sulk for a day or two and then get back to running their missions. No real harm done. ---------------------------------- Currently pursuing a "deviant playstyle."
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.18 03:37:00 - [203] Originally by: Liisa It only hurts a few either a)really rich or b)ebaying/gtc isk buying players. Most sulk for a day or two and then get back to running their missions. No real harm done. I think real harm is done. You are right that in real terms Lofty only hits a very, very small percentage of EVE players. But people read the forums and there are plenty of other scams where people try to get to shoot someone (e.g. "I want to test this setup, grab this item from my can"....had that one myself many times). As I mentioned a mate of mine honestly trying to be nice was assumed to be a scammer and told to **** off. As posted here many times people just say, "Don't trust anyone". I think it stinks that some relative few turn the entire game into that mindset. Their impact on the game is out of all proportion to their "direct" damage.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.18 09:09:00 - [204] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/08/2007 09:08:55 This thread is actually pretty clever if you want to stop this scam. The more people reading this, the more of them will try to do the same. More and more players will become victims, and eventually there will be much attention from ccp (weather its petitions or forum threads that gets their attention). Its just like the Privateers thing. It worked for a while, but when it got too big, ccp nipped it in the bud. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Maddiganed	Posted - 2007.08.18 12:14:00 - [205] infact.. everytime we start getting fun, CCP nerf it.. getting frustrating :(
Tammarr	Posted - 2007.08.18 17:05:00 - [206] Just make it so inviting people at war with one andother to the same gang does not compute, problem solved.
HuGo87 Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.19 07:27:00 - [207] Originally by: lofty29 Ignorance killed the carebear. There is a warning when you join either a warring or non-warring gang. as was said; the @war character joined the gang AFTER the carebear was already in warp if u see a 3rd joining ur gang, leave it asap don't wait 4 warp2 end. i guess that'll save ur neck it's a shame for those who will actualy be NEEDING the help, cause no'one 'll trust 'em
Xalorous Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.01 15:02:00 - [208] I agree that when someone is added to group you should be given a chance to leave. Yes, there is a warning when you first join a gang, but the fact that you're adding the wardecc'd party after, during warp, is what makes this underhanded. Mission running ships are hard to set up if you're not rich. If I lost mine while trying to help someone, I'd quit playing. By allowing this, and not declaring it an exploit, CCP is fostering a climate of 'trust noone' where you can get burned for being nice. That leads down the road to boneheads and 1337ness. Xalorous --- I hold no position of authority. All comments are my own, and I take sole responsibility for them.
Bryg Philomena Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.09.01 22:04:00 - [209] 1. Mission setups are not hard, rich or not. 2. It is not an exploit. 3. You trust someone after knowing them. You would never have someone in RL say, lets go to LA and get a drink, and follow him blindly into some less than savvy part of town. You would have to trust the guy first. 4. CCP can you please close this thread, it has been necroed. A few times. :) Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars??? Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.01 22:07:00 - [210] You mean this hasn't been locked yet? --- Project Mayhem 2

wictro FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.02 00:46:00 - [211] im proud to share an alliance with you lofty. you deserve all these pages! :) -wic
Harleydavid Hells Angels Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.02 11:49:00 - [212] nice one lofty... truly inspiring to all pirates
Fapko	Posted - 2007.09.02 15:14:00 - [213] i think CCP likes you lofty, for not closing the thread.
Raven Owa Racketeers	Posted - 2007.09.02 15:22:00 - [214] Quote: He's such a nice guy, always willing to help. It's truly a shame that only someone nice enough to help people will get hurt by this exploit. No good deed goes unpunished.
Nayuta	Posted - 2007.09.07 22:29:00 - [215] It seems that the scam won't work anymore
Deadious	Posted - 2007.09.13 07:09:00 - [216] If the scam doesnt work anymore well its about damn time... and I laugh at you scum (and equate you to toon ***/ isk farmers). The gang system is nothing more than a dodgy game concept that should never have been allowed in the 1st place. Hahaha if this is acceptable maybe I should go kill noobs until the end of days to make a point to CCP and GM's that it isnt acceptable. Vote = Exploit** Petition it too the max... and encourage players to leave I say. We are what EVE teaches us to be, so do it...
Aptenodytes	Posted - 2007.09.13 09:21:00 - [217] It does still work, you must be doing it wrong.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.13 09:39:00 - [218] DIE ALREADY! --- Project Mayhem 2
Taimon D'Kura	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:03:00 - [219] Originally by: lofty29 Also my PC would melt if I had 4 accounts running Wow, what are you running for a PC? Must be crappier than mine.
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:53:00 - [220] necro much? fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)

Hilly22222 Tarnak inc.	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:55:00 - [221] lets put it out of it's misery bang /me sniffs its gone to a better place now
Mikal Zackfelt Gallente THE MISPHIT'S INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:02:00 - [222] Please let this thread rest in piece...
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:24:00 - [223] LOL WUT?! --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Commander Thrawn Fluffy Rabbit Killers Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:33:00 - [224] seriously lets this thing die.
Gentle Glide Naughty 40 Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:51:00 - [225] Posting in a lofty thread.
Valerax Orion Fourth Circle Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.10.28 14:51:00 - [226] Sticky dis!
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.28 15:12:00 - [227] Gah --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Ogdru Jahad Amarr War Dawgs	Posted - 2007.10.28 16:09:00 - [228] Back to that deep dark wet hole you came from I sayeth!!! speaking of dark wet holes must goto bed - At last the Gallente can finally lay claim to saying... "my DICtor" is bigger than yours.
zurich93 SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2007.10.28 23:32:00 - [229] Edited by: zurich93 on 28/10/2007 23:31:51 This thread isnt leaving the first page! Edit: Brilliant way of making isk lofty Nope starts here actually :O -----Sig starts here------- <3 Kaemonn eep eep beep heep keep womble... YOU DO NOT POSESS THE POWER TO DISGUINISH MY SIG FROM MY POST MWHAHAHA
Hilly22222 Tarnak inc.	Posted - 2007.10.29 00:03:00 - [230] i shot it once...this is like the night of the living necro

Rudy Metallo Additional Pylons	Posted - 2007.10.29 03:42:00 - [231] KILL IT, KILL IT. -- We are the revolutionaries. We are the usurpers of the heavenly throne. We are the enemies of the Gods.
Lauren Sheaperd Minmatar FactorMax	Posted - 2007.10.29 06:02:00 - [232] ...
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.10.29 07:08:00 - [233] Edited by: Icome4u on 29/10/2007 07:09:34 Lame... Edit: It can be viewed as an exploit or poor game mechanic. With CCP you never know.
Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:18:00 - [234] Hehe, my baby is still alive! May this thread live on for the ages.
Riho Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.10.30 18:54:00 - [235] man.. thing thing aint dieing... bring in the thread killing titanzzzz
Eksist	Posted - 2007.10.31 13:39:00 - [236] If the tactic is still valid, and therefore this thread continues to serve the community by warning and educating, then this is no real necro. On the last page (August-ish?) someone mentioned that the tactic had been 'fixed' once and then broken again. Does it still work? Do people who are not flagging mechanic experts still need to refuse all invites to gang?
Jones Maloy Minmatar Unified Naval Command	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:16:00 - [237] nice one. well planned and well exicuted. if you join any gang this scam is unavoidable. there is nothing you can do to prevent this other than never accept a gang invite. the victims ship is fitted for pve against a specific damage type and resistance type. lofty is fitted for pvp specificly fitted to resist the right damage type and deal the right damage type. the victim gets no warning other than the initial warning. this will seriously affect pve in a negative way. i will from now on never accept gang invites from strangers. the above statements are as simple as possible. this is not an exploit. it does seem very low and dirty (just how lofty likes it :D ). i admire the work put into this but still see it as underhanded tactics. but that is how you win. and in eve winners will prosper at the expense of losers. last but not least: nice guys finish last. i'm a nice guy. i deal. --- WCS Nerf yes i'm still angry
Haldor Gret Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.31 20:24:00 - [238] Lofty said that he was doing this in a NOSDomi. I'm just wondering with the NOS nerf that happened a while ago does this still work In Rust We Trust Duct Tape Forever
Kanonier Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.31 23:45:00 - [239] ooh pictures.
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:54:00 - [240] nice one lofty, funny that some guy felt the need to whine this bad, even thinks no one knows whats going off.

lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:59:00 - [241] Originally by: Haldor Gret Lofty said that he was doing this in a NOSDomi. I'm just wondering with the NOS nerf that happened a while ago does this still work Alt in neut-boat, me in plate-gankthron. Well, I don't actually do it anymore and the only guy I know of who did it en-mass has pretty much given up (he made a ****ton more than me ) so... Ah well. This thread is so silly tho --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Harrii Karrie	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:15:00 - [242] wow thats an old scam, remember reading about it before 6 months or so ago, think it was lofty then too in Caldari space
Vasili vonHolst	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:37:00 - [243] Heya Lofty =] Still Kickin?
Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.06 17:58:00 - [244] Originally by: heheheh nice one lofty, funny that some guy felt the need to whine this bad, even thinks no one knows whats going off. I try to think of this as more of an informative report for everyone who wasn't aware of the scam. Judging by how many people have replied, that seems to be a lot.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.06 19:45:00 - [245] Originally by: Vasili vonHolst Heya Lofty =] Still Kickin? Alive and well. Not in the business anymore I'm afraid though --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp


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