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Flory01
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Posted - 2007.07.09 20:39:00 -
[31]
/signed
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Militis Kolosok
Caldari
Praetorian BlackGuard
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.09 21:04:00 -
[32]
Why not make a 3 second log-off timer that gets put into the logs? Whenever a person ctrl+q's or pushes exit, the timer counts down and that way the server knows that the character legitimately logged off. If there's a computer, game, or network crash, the person would not have to go through the timer and the logs would be empty, removing the person's ship from the grid.
Praetorian BlackGuard Now Recruiting! |
Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.09 21:33:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Scorpyn on 09/07/2007 21:33:13
 Originally by: Militis Kolosok
Why not make a 3 second log-off timer that gets put into the logs? Whenever a person ctrl+q's or pushes exit, the timer counts down and that way the server knows that the character legitimately logged off. If there's a computer, game, or network crash, the person would not have to go through the timer and the logs would be empty, removing the person's ship from the grid.
3 seconds is too short, it needs to be at least a minute. Also, if telling the difference between logoffs and disconnects was implemented then ppl would just start unplugging the network cable instead.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.09 21:49:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dr Kojak
I have to say that it is possible for ccp to spot the difference between connection drop and logoff;
There plain out isn't. You seem to have no clue what you are talking about.
What is your "smart" idea? Let eve check for "ctrl q"? 
Say hello to task manager. Killing the eve process from there looks *exactly* like if it crashed. And, no, eve cannot somehow check this and send a message to the server. Killing a program with the task manager is like putting a bullet in it's head without warning, it does not even have time to gasp.
Or, alternatively, just order your firewall to block all traffic. Instant connection loss. And totally indistinguishable from a "normal" connection loss. Or just unplug your network cable. Or just cut the power to your PC. Same effect, although a bit less elegant.
It is *very* easy to "emulate" connection losses or crashes which look 100% identical to the "real thing".
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Dotard
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Posted - 2007.07.09 23:14:00 -
[35]
Oh wait a minute. Let me make sure I got this straight.
If you jump in and attack me, I do not shoot back only Ctrl-Q, my ship will warp off and disappear in 2 minutes warp scrammed or not?
It will only remain scrammed in place or warped to a SS and remain there for some time IF and only IF I return the aggression?
Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.09 23:23:00 -
[36]
No. If you log off/disconnect *before* someone does an agressive action on you (= anything what can result in getting concorded in high sec) you'll try to warp away (if someone scrams or bubbles you you won't) and will disappear in 1 minute unless you get killed first.
If you log after someone did an agressive act towards you (or you towards someone else, of cource, however only someone doing it vs you is enough) you'll do the same thing, exept that you will vanish in only 15 mins.
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Grant Smith
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.09 23:59:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Dotard
Oh wait a minute. Let me make sure I got this straight.
If you jump in and attack me, I do not shoot back only Ctrl-Q, my ship will warp off and disappear in 2 minutes warp scrammed or not?
It will only remain scrammed in place or warped to a SS and remain there for some time IF and only IF I return the aggression?
Correct.
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Yasuki Orie
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.10 01:18:00 -
[38]
That was 2 contradictory answers
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Dotard
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Posted - 2007.07.10 03:08:00 -
[39]
LOL. 
Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Valandril
Caldari
Resurrection
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.07.10 03:18:00 -
[40]
signed, tired of logging of fleets.
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Jex Jast
Amarr
Go for the booty
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Posted - 2007.07.10 03:59:00 -
[41]
Would it be so hard to implement the client sending a single packet/message/whatever (computer science failure speaking) saying that the person is logging off, when they log off? Something that would obviously not be sent in a sudden connection loss?
Wouldn't that solve the problem of being "unable to distinguish"? And that could also make it possible to leave their ship in space if they log, but warp it out if they DC.
Of course then people would be pulling Halo-god-mode-tricks and unplugging their cables, but they'd eventually damage it or somesuch, and it's more of a hassle to undo than just pressing CTRL+Q.
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Danlex
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Posted - 2007.07.10 05:09:00 -
[42]
At a guess what he's talking about is when people log off after jumping through a gate. You're cloaked for 30 seconds, then regardless of being scrammed you're gone 30 seconds later.
This is pretty geh.
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Hunlight Faithus
Ravenclaw Manufacturing
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.07.10 06:08:00 -
[43]
if we want to carebear leave us alone stop telling us how to play our game, but yeh /signed i think it better if its a straight up fight
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shhmee eeeeee
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2007.07.10 07:17:00 -
[44]
on the last comment if you want to pirat it is increaseingly hard as carebears and so called pvp'ers can leave you alone. the way i see it is if you lose conection jumping into a gate camp your ship should remain cloaked for the full min, by which time you can of logged back in time to face whats comeing.
hostile situations and a genuine conection drops happening at the same time almost never happens, so in cases where it does it should be bad luck mate you lost your ship.
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Milo Deadstar
Minmatar
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.10 10:17:00 -
[45]
/signed
as an added bonus adding a compulsory 15 aggro timer for logging it will help us clean out some of those 0.0 macro'ers with a /logoff macro that runs whenever someone enters the system.
Another option would be to offline all/half ship mods when they log back in at least discouraging logoffs somewhat.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.10 10:42:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Aramendel on 10/07/2007 10:44:13
Originally by: Jex Jast
Of course then people would be pulling Halo-god-mode-tricks and unplugging their cables, but they'd eventually damage it or somesuch, and it's more of a hassle to undo than just pressing CTRL+Q.
Exept you do not really need to do that. As said, most firewalls have an option to block all traffic, thats one keystroke. Doing ctrl-alt-del-rightclick on eve process-end task is not much of a problem either.
Originally by: Danlex
At a guess what he's talking about is when people log off after jumping through a gate. You're cloaked for 30 seconds, then regardless of being scrammed you're gone 30 seconds later.
You decloak when you log cause your ship tries an emergency warp. There were some problems about logging in a bubble, though, the ship would decloak, but remain unlockable for 1 minute since it jumped in. So if you saw a camp and logged 5 seconds after jumpin the camp would have 5 seconds total to kill you.
0 sec jumpin, 60 second "invulnerability" timer starts...5 sec logging, 60 sec despawn timer starts...60 sec target gets lockable...65 sec target vanishes
That is/was more like a bug though and really should get fixed if it hasn't been so far. No idea if it still works that way or not. They broke it when they stopped ships from logoff-warping out of a bubble.
And giving people who ctrl-q a 15 min timer would change nothing there. People would simply use other means to "logoff".
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fire 59
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.10 11:15:00 -
[47]
They should make it so that stargates cause aggro or something, so if you log off straight after, you ain't going anywhere. A few folks will get done in with genuine connection loss but it is a worthy trade off imo.
GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE |
Miss KillSome
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.07.10 13:18:00 -
[48]
does second client logon still works?
Like, if u see u must logoff and save your ship, just have another client opened, log into same account, but select different charachter..
is this the problem?
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Awox
Minmatar
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.10 13:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: fire 59
A few folks will get done in with genuine connection loss but it is a worthy trade off imo..
If someone dies to lag/ctd, well, they probably would have died anyways. I have only ever CTD'd after jumping into a gate twice, like, in years. :S
Originally by: Miss KillSome
does second client logon still works?
I'm not sure if that exact method works, but yes, I have seen people disappear instantly after jumping and decloaking.
I think it's awesome alliances now send roaming gangs of 20 around space to gank other alliance's players with orders to logoff and have such exploits on stand-by because CCP don't rule on it.
CCP are just doing what makes business sense.. They wont fix this until it starts to send the character count in the other direction. Because the people who complain about this issue are the hardcore players (remember us CCP, you made the game for us, not for the people who want WoW in space..) and dedicated players (aka fans) tend to focus on the good rather than this one problem.
CCP will never fix this issue. CCP are currently trying to milk everything for what it's worth, EVE TV going commercial, the card-game, white-wolf stuff - cutting back on community freebies (EON awards, possibly alliance tournament), etc. So what makes you think they will do something to please the people who made the company what it is today?
CCP are *****s in the most common sense of the word. Sell outs.
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AwoxEveUtils (EVELauncher, ShiftWindows, ScratchPad) script for AutoIt scripting language!
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Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.10 14:49:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Miss KillSome
does second client logon still works?
Like, if u see u must logoff and save your ship, just have another client opened, log into same account, but select different charachter..
is this the problem?
They fixed that issue a few years ago, but it's possible that it's slipped back in somehow (like a few other bugs have from time to time).
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petergriffen
Amarr
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.10 16:16:00 -
[51]
How about this...
If a pilot logs off in a system that belongs to an alliance (has at least sovereignty lvl 1) the logoff timer is extended to 10 - 15 minutes. This would keep hostiles from bringing a gang into hostile territory and logging off.
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Firane
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.10 16:24:00 -
[52]
For every legitimate disconnect after gate jumping you have probably 1000 loggers. Why leave the current system in place, causing 1000 problems, when you could fix it and cause 1 problem? It does not make any sense to me.
Logging out just needs to be completely reworked. You should have a 30 second timer where your ship must be stationary and un-aggressed before you exit game, followed by emergency warping(if not in a POS) Bubbles should cause aggression, after all they are WARP SCRAMBLING the ships within.
So /signed, this **** needs to be worked out. I don't give a crap about heat, or new ships, or new skills, or the new tutorial, or factional warfare, or level 20 missions. Fix the game before adding to it.
Honestly, if devs are playing Eve as their own characters, why aren't they also getting frustrated with these issues, and fixing them since they have the power? It just does not make sense. Every day I've PvP'd for as long as I can remember, I've had an experience where I ask myself "Do CCP even play their own game? Why don't they realize how far this has gotten out of control and do something about it?"
Lets see action, CCP.
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shhmee eeeeee
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2007.07.10 16:56:00 -
[53]
had a thought today mad i know! but maybe add a 15min aggro timer if your ship is hit, even if you have logged before the event. as in after logging your ship is still active until the 1min counter has gone, any aggression in this time still adds the 15mins, very close to whats been said above in many posts.
Also why should an aggression timer on a ship be canceled by jumping into a new system, as when we shoot in low sec the 15min timer follows us every where we go?? this can not be too hard to solve. mission runners moan about being scanned out in low sec and it's fixed in the very next patch to some extent anyway :)
every body posting here is far more likely to crash in a hostile event then any npc'er, mission runner or the like, and lose there ship, but still are willing to see the loss of a ship in such away become part of the game!
and think of all the i want my ship back because i crashed potitions you wouldn't have to deal with anymore :)
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Dotard
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Posted - 2007.07.10 18:12:00 -
[54]
Can someone answer my question please? What is the problem if when a person logs/dc's or whatever, they go to a SS. If scrammed they cannot and sit there getting pawned. If not the aggressor can probe the ship and warp to them and pawn it.
What is all the complaining about?
Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Mari Onette
Amarr
Gottland Production Transport Mines
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Posted - 2007.07.10 18:33:00 -
[55]
I would rather loose 100 battleships to disconnects in battle, then let a single person get away who logged out to escape combat. If a ship is scrambled it should STAY IN SPACE. PERIOD.
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I am in blood! Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, it would be as tedious as going over.
-MacBeth |
Dotard
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Posted - 2007.07.10 19:16:00 -
[56]
Well does it or doesn't it?!?
I keep seeing contradictory testimony when it comes what happens when a person loses connection. Be it from D/C or Log off.
Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.10 19:31:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dotard
Can someone answer my question please? What is the problem if when a person logs/dc's or whatever, they go to a SS. If scrammed they cannot and sit there getting pawned. If not the aggressor can probe the ship and warp to them and pawn it.
What is all the complaining about?
The problem is that there are ways of avoiding the 15 minute pvp timer.
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William Hart
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.10 21:52:00 -
[58]
Still no dev reply. You guys are fools for thinking CCP even care about this.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.10 22:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
Originally by: Scorpyn
The solution for this can actually be found in World of Warcraft (and probably a few other games).
When you log out in space, add a 1 minute timer. If you're attacked by a player during that time, apply the 15 minute PVP timer. If not, the server tells the client that it's clear to disconnect when the 1 minute timer is up (after which the client disconnects).
Lost connections should be treated the same, with 1 minute for other players to extend the timer.
I know this sucks to ppl that lose connection every now and then, but unfortunately the problem has grown way out of proportion and really needs to be dealt with.
This is a good solid constructive proposal, i like it. Problem is, "people" want a solution that can differ between log off and disconnect. Your proposal doesn't do that, but rather treat both the same (as EVE does now) with its rules.
In WOW, if you log off in an Inn you bypass the 20 second wait pretty much the same happens when we are docked.
If you log off outside an Inn, you have to wait those 20 seconds with the danger of getting attacked in the meantime. Same goes for EVE, with the 1 minute cloaking delay (except the gate problem I guess).
So this all goes down to a rule change, not a bug fix. 
It is very simple:
WoW = no loss from an attack wile being disconnected (or so I hear, never played it)
EVE = loss of items if you are attacked while you are disconnected
so EVE require a higher level of protection for the people that get disconnected than WoW.
The very nature of EVE, where the loss are meaningful, make necessary to avoid ,losses not imputable to the player. The other option is to give reinboursement for losses in PvP and PvE in the event of a disconnection, with deleting of the killmails, and that will be even worst than the current situation.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.10 23:03:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Scorpyn
I know this sucks to ppl that lose connection every now and then, but unfortunately the problem has grown way out of proportion and really needs to be dealt with.
Unfortunately these lost conenctions are more frequent than "every now and then" and mainly due to problems on CCP's side.
I agree, this "tactic" sucks and should have negative ramifications (like turning you into a sitting target) but until CCP straightens out their CTDs, Desyncs, drop issues and generic connection problems they can't really start punishing people that legitimately have issues.
So...
/signed - Fix your connection issues CCP and then fix logoffs 
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Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
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