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Get rid of local...

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Andraea Sarstae	Posted - 2007.07.13 04:34:00 - [61] Quote: How about removing it because it makes no goddamn sense? Space, as at least one famous author has said, is BIG. The odds of you finding a single tiny hunk of metal that's barely moving (on a system-wide scale) with something like c-limited RADAR are freaking astronomical, no pun intended. Scan probes make this feat achievable, but nothing NOTHING should just tell you automagically how many people are in a given system, who they are, and who they work for, with zero effort or skill invested. I couldn't agree more. In my six months playing, this is the one thing that REALLY never made much sense to me. The chat system should be for chatting, not warning you of incoming trouble.
Ddredar	Posted - 2007.07.13 04:37:00 - [62] I know it probably won't happen, but it would be nice to get a DEV opinion on this. Quote: GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL BABY!!!
Strepsils	Posted - 2007.07.13 04:39:00 - [63] Originally by: StuntmanMike Originally by: John Blackthorn and you will never know if the gate is camped, your station is camped, that your being scanned out... You have a scanner on your ship. Learn to use it. Local. Gonzo. Now. That's clever. What if I'm docked, and I need to know if 150 hostiles are sitting outside the station?
OHGODSPIES	Posted - 2007.07.13 04:41:00 - [64] Remove local and give those poor cov ops/astro frig pilots a spot in all gangs. And, y'know, get people to use the astrometrics timesink too.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:02:00 - [65] Local is fine the way it is; without it in its current form, it would be a real pain in the ass to find people. Everyone always touts the scanner as the end all be all solution to finding people, but have you ever used to actually pin point people and not just "guess" where they are. No local = player interactions cut by atleast half to three quarters. You'd only ever see people at gates, which would make gate camping (an already annoying requirement due to the size of EVE space) a much more common thing.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:10:00 - [66] Removal of local would be even easier if Overview scan range was extended to 15 AU just like manual scanner. Overview would show ships that are offgrid but display no more information than a regular scanner does. It would be enough to be alerted of new ships in 15 AU range to make local nerf not so bad.
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:14:00 - [67] Well, to me what makes no sense is that a weapon as powerful as scan probes hasn't been countered by any of the factions. I say remove local, but give the carebears a module that hides them from scanners/probes
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:15:00 - [68] Originally by: Strepsils What if I'm docked, and I need to know if 150 hostiles are sitting outside the station? You open the map and check for blob. You can ask a friend for scout info. You can check with your alt (everyone has scout alts, don't deny it) You can undock, scan, and redock within the 30 second invulnerability timer. You can't even be bumped.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:16:00 - [69] Originally by: Gojyu Well, to me what makes no sense is that a weapon as powerful as scan probes hasn't been countered by any of the factions. I say remove local, but give the carebears a module that hides them from scanners/probes Right now carebears has great advantages in 0.0, mostly due to local and easy cloaking. Local nerf should slightly shift balance in favor of attackers.
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:19:00 - [70] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: Gojyu Well, to me what makes no sense is that a weapon as powerful as scan probes hasn't been countered by any of the factions. I say remove local, but give the carebears a module that hides them from scanners/probes Right now carebears has great advantages in 0.0, mostly due to local and easy cloaking. Local nerf should slightly shift balance in favor of attackers. It does slightly shift the balance, as long as you give the module harsh penalties wcs-style. Make fitting the module a harsh choice and then you've got a slight shift to the attackers, you can manually warp to belts to check for miners without them seeing you coming, and you can scan down mission runners fairly easily

Andraea Sarstae	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:32:00 - [71] Edited by: Andraea Sarstae on 13/07/2007 05:34:21 Dev Blog on Local Wonder why they never did anything with this.
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:44:00 - [72] Edited by: Matthew Cooper on 13/07/2007 05:44:11 Originally by: Andraea Sarstae Wonder why they never did anything with this. Originally by: Oveur Just to clarify some things, these are ideas, not something that is scheduled for implementation. Signature starts here: Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
Duckeye	Posted - 2007.07.13 06:20:00 - [73] I wouldn't mind removing local as long as they granted the ability to check blind spots, a good example would be an option that allows you to view the situation outside of the station before undocking, you can look around along with all the information from your overview just as if you were flying your ship, once you decide it's clear you can complete undocking and your ship comes out with a press of the button. In a perfect world I'd get rid of gates all together, it's really the greatest hinderance against the growth of guerrila like small-squad tactics in eve. Right now the game is designed like a chain of balls on a very long piece of string. You warp from one side of the ball to the other and use the gate to go through the string to the next ball and you are totally blind on whats on the other side of that gate until you go through. I hate the fact that in order for anyone to get from one system to another in lawless space that they have to go through a public common meeting point...what would be better is if you took all those balls on the chain and got rid of the string all together, combine all the systems together to just form one really huge ball. With that the scanning systems will be the primary eyes of every ship at all times, as I think it should be, because each and every star-system won't be like "individual rooms" like they are right now. The game would be more fluid and whole concept wise. Static belts are to be removed, etc. etc (which is coming along anyway)...It's the fear that makes people not want to go into lowsec or 0.0, the fear of whats on the other side of a gate. If you give people room to beath they will risk it more. It would of course totally change eve about 100% and I'm sure a lot of people would be seriously ****ed, not to mention the fact that they would have to basically rework the entire game from the ground up...but it's just my opinion, I know that it's nowhere in the future of this game but it's just something I'd like to see implemented in a further game.
Omak Topal Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.13 07:05:00 - [74] I fully support this idea. lets make it so that less and less people risk going into low sec or 0.0 alone, and promote more blobs moving throughout eve. --------[sig]--------- I didn't do it, i swear!
Strepsils	Posted - 2007.07.13 07:12:00 - [75] Edited by: Strepsils on 13/07/2007 07:12:47 Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: Strepsils What if I'm docked, and I need to know if 150 hostiles are sitting outside the station? You open the map and check for blob. You can ask a friend for scout info. You can check with your alt (everyone has scout alts, don't deny it) You can undock, scan, and redock within the 30 second invulnerability timer. You can't even be bumped. What if I play alone and live in NPC stations in STAIN? What if I don't have an alt? Fact that you have Falcon alt doesn't mean everyone has an alt. Since when you can't be bumped? More often than not, I needed LOCAL more to figure out who of my alliance mates are in LOCAL, as opposed to checking which hostiles are in local. I can only imagine alliance chat spam if LOCAL gets removed, because noone knows what the hell is going on. Gankers would die to see LOCAL removed, since that allows them to get into system without being noticed, and get out of system in the same manner. EDIT: And sure, when maps starts being updated in real time, and starts showing correct data, then I'm all for using map. Until then...
Lucas Avidius Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.07.13 07:17:00 - [76] Heres my take on the local thingamajiggy: it needs to be changed at least somehow. Ive got a few ideas, too. In high sec, local should remain as it is currently due to high concord presence and all that other roleplay razzmataz. In low sec, local should show the count of people in the system, but no ones identities unless theyre activly talking over it. In 0.0, local should display unknown at all times, and only show portraits if people are talking. Systems with soverignty could potentially upgrade to either the low sec or high sec local systems with POS modules. There are some other changes that would need to be made for this. First off, since people in low sec/0.0 would only be able to find other people through the ship scanner and scan probes, make ships parked inside a POS shield not show up on the ships scanner at all. Say, the scanning method is too weak to penetrate the shield at distances farther than off grid. Probe scanning should see them, but also indicate that there is a POS shield between the scanprobe and the ship being scanned. Secondly, in all sec space, make an option to have ships that use the existing ship scanner show up briefly in your overview as their ship type. So say, if Joe Schmoe is in a 0.0 belt ratting in his raven, and some guy in a gank fitted megathron shows up and scans him from the planet, Joe would see "Megathron" display on his overview for a few seconds, at an approximate-but not exact-range it scanned from, perhaps flashing to get his attention. At the same time, Mister Gankathron at the planet sees "Raven" at the same approximate range, but unless hes using a narrow scan, that raven could be at any of the belts inside his scanning cone and reasonably within the reported range. Dont submarine sonar systems in the real world work somewhat like this with active scanning? It makes sense from a physics and a role playing stand point I think. Third, extend the range of the ship scanner, but have it give a delayed result time, just like real life sonar systems that can only see something after the sound generated by their ping reflects back after a few seconds. A speed of a few AU/sec should be reasonable, and might also help to decrease server lag as the server would only have to send a few scanned objects in data packets that are considerably more spread apart than the giant packets all at once that it sends now. Fourth, introduce modules and rigs to increase the power and usefulness of the on board scanner. Of course dont make it quite as powerful as a dedicated scan probe launcher, but make it vastly more useable than it is now. Finally, a more realistic Friend or Foe system would need to be introduced, because as someone else in this thread already said, it would be a pain in the butt to go through the trouble of locating a target only to find out that its a blue.
Caligulus Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.07.13 07:19:00 - [77] If local is removed in 0.0 the sovereignty holder (and it's members) should get a timestamped notice of a gate activation in the system. The soveriegn of that solar system and it's members should also have a list of current members online and active in the system... you know what... If I have sovereignty of the system, I see local as it is now. If you don't have sovereignty, you don't see it.
whahein Minmatar Bipolar Barnstorming	Posted - 2007.07.13 10:43:00 - [78] Originally by: Ephemeron Removal of local would be even easier if Overview scan range was extended to 15 AU just like manual scanner. Overview would show ships that are offgrid but display no more information than a regular scanner does. It would be enough to be alerted of new ships in 15 AU range to make local nerf not so bad. This thread have run it's usual course people are once again reinventing local as a pure intel tool for the nbsi crowd, using varius modifications to overview and scanner, leaving us with a status qou and eve's most importent cross corp socialisation tool gone! Ohh and now someone found the dev blog, and as we all knew it's 3 years old, CCP never acted upon it making it as good as useless in dertermining wheater or not local should go, 3 years and local stayed i gues that means CCP turned around and now think local as intel is Good(tm) as theyu did with jet can mining and warp to zero.
Hubert Bonmarchais	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:16:00 - [79] Players voted NO to the "Remove local ?" poll 3 years ago. We have to deal with it. Democracy ftw.
Tom Gunn Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:26:00 - [80] I'm in favour of this - only show your name if you speak in local. With that said, I do think they'd need to add ways of obtaining better intel for soverign holders or people with high faction in high sec space. E.g. intelligence gathering modules for POS's that could of course be offlined like turrets by attackers (knocking out an opponents intel is one of the first things done in modern warfare). Oh, and upgrade those pre WW2 scanners we're using on futuristic spaceships!

Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:34:00 - [81] Originally by: Milton Keynes I fully endorse this idea and/or product Local is pants - at least remove it from 0.0! And low sec, don't forget the solo pirates
Shevar Minmatar Equilibria	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:37:00 - [82] I haven't played eve-online for more then 2 years and back then this was generally requested as well, albeit it was mostly requested by pirats and not by carebears. And to be honest requesting this as a carebear isn't the most thoughtfull of requests. -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Gikanzin Minmatar High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:42:00 - [83] Edited by: Gikanzin on 13/07/2007 11:42:40 Necroing a topic which has been discuss for the 1 millionth time is bad, M'kay? Also I'm wondering if this is a new tactic by pirates with alts to eliminate local, but I will agree with the op. Eliminate local! Less smack talk and chatting in local is getting over rated. Lets all be emo?
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:42:00 - [84] Originally by: FT Diomedes A load of crap... Stuff... Can I have it? Surely if you see someone enter local, it's simple enough to align for a station, then if they probe you out (remember there's about 0.0000001% chance of them finding you since the nerf), click warp! Simple! But no, mission runners have it so damn hard! Let's make it easier for them AGAIN... Hell, screw it, let's just make everywhere highsec except for 0.0, then we'll have a little message come up for combat saying 'Felysta Sandorn wants to attack you... Allow/Disallow'... This isn't WoW or Hello Kitty world! Stop trying to get out of every ounce of risk in the damn game! Latest Video, Click Here!
Lastdon	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:01:00 - [85] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=546078 Already made this post and of course just as many people crying about losing something that they use as a means to gather intell that is meant for chat. You all were so right lets make the game even more automated and not force people to actually play the game. Look at me I can run 3 accounts at the same time.... is it just me or is that saying something about the interaction of this game. God forbid you have to use a function to play the game.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:03:00 - [86] Some people want Local as a intel tool, others want rid of it for the self same reason; why not simply make it into part of the game mechanic? Have a Local System Scan on a sliding scale of range. You can either activate it to 'ping once' or 'always on' (no multi spamming your scanner). If another ship is within your set scan range that pilot is shown in local to you, and you are shown in local to him. Ships / pilots within 15 au of a station / outpost or docked are also displayed in local, until they leave the station and move out of range (meaning you can determine if is relatively safe to undock). The overall scan range might be ship class dependant (heck maybe some ships have better long range System Scanners than others). Local 'intel' is then a player choice. C. - sig designer - eve mail
Kiyano Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:30:00 - [87] I think you should at least keep local in empire. Just my idea.
The Judge FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:35:00 - [88] Or all the people whining could actually put some effort into finding a target and not try to make ccp do the work for them ? Remove local and carebears wouldn't even be able to mine or npc at all, since the risk of somebody jumping in on them any second would be too great. So you'd just end up with systems being even emptier than they are now. Remember local has accidently been removed once before and it was a complete disaster. I doubt this change will ever come into the game, so see no point for complaining about it. If you need to complain about something then at least do it about something worthwhile, such as boosting amarr.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:37:00 - [89] Originally by: Lucas Avidius Heres my take on the local thingamajiggy: it needs to be changed at least somehow. Ive got a few ideas, too. In high sec, local should remain as it is currently due to high concord presence and all that other roleplay razzmataz. In low sec, local should show the count of people in the system, but no ones identities unless theyre activly talking over it. In 0.0, local should display unknown at all times, and only show portraits if people are talking. Systems with soverignty could potentially upgrade to either the low sec or high sec local systems with POS modules. I don't understand why, in a world where all entry and exit of a system is done either with an established stargate system or easily detected jump drives, people think there would be any difficulty in RP terms in having local anywhere. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:38:00 - [90] I prefer to have local. But if they get rid I will adapt. Since everybody will be flying very little but force recons after such a nerf. I'll do that myself. Cheers.



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