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Lucky 8 Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:32:00 - [31] This is a LOCAL channel for LOCAL people, we'll have no ganking here. -- Originally by: Nicho Void This thread is like a chum slick for forum alt trolls.
whahein Minmatar Bipolar Barnstorming	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:36:00 - [32] Originally by: Sereifex Daku All the people who are against the removal of local are jsut people who want EVE to be set on easy mode. You want easy? Play WoW. THIS is EVE Online, CCP have always tried to make this game challenging. Remove it from 0.0 systems! No thwe ones wanting to rid eve of local are calling for it to be easier for their playstyle to "win" against people on an other strategy! Eve is a dark highly political roleplaying spacship simulator, not counterstrike in space, It's alway been played on more levels then just running around killing all in sight, imagine hunting on a NRDS policy with no local So you dont want local to be a intel tool, thats sort of like saying you dont want jet cans to be used for mining, it's silly because it's been a part of eve forever. Instas were boardeline exploits, and it certainly was never intended tat agility and not speed would be the deciding factor in travel time, but in the end CCP decided that it would create far to many issues removing the ability to move a BS fleet fastish, detecting the blob well i can do that on 50 jumps distance using the map. getting a ship count sure just use the scanner, it can be macro'ed so isk farmers will just be more safe. I have a hard time seeing any real benefit of no local and the idea of a optional local as replacement for the social aspect is just silly, it's adding a penalty to those that dont maintain radio silence, nothing more. BTW this damn debate has been gone on far to long we need a dev repply on this soon.
NightmareX Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:37:00 - [33] And by doing this, you are also making PVP a way more boring. First you will use ALOT more time to find your enemies. And how do you think it will be when you normally just can use an alt or a scout to find your enemies, and then make your fleet ready to fight the enemies when you have found them. I wont be the idiot to use a ** load of time just to find out where the enemies are. Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred**
grimda	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:37:00 - [34] I like your suggestion - original post - but this might be better" Keep Local. Add: Dummy Ship/Pilot Countermeasures A little launcher someone can use to launch into a system a small probe that will broadcast the 'presence' of a real representation of themselves that can be seen in local. It last a little while. Pirates have to actually hunt for you and cant be sure your really there.
T'Laar Bok	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:40:00 - [35] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner QFT I think I could last about 2 minutes before making a macro to auto click for me.
Matroshka Crimson Squall Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:41:00 - [36] Edited by: Matroshka on 12/07/2007 21:40:48 Originally by: Nachshon I have a better idea - make local optional. It equalizes the playing field somewhat. You can avoid being seen by others... at the cost of not being able to see them. Turning off local would make sense if you are a mission runner, or if you are being hunted by a gang - until, that is, they drive you into a trap. Why would anyone want to been seen in local if it was an option? If local is removed, I think the chat box should remain and I also think that friendlies should be shown. It would suck to blindly scan out a system and finally find a target only to realize they are blue. -------------
Ga'len Amarr Wandering Druid	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:42:00 - [37] Being hunted by pirates is only one aspect of this game. EVE is a community and when you begin to limit the ways a community can communicate, that's when you kill it. So, no, don't take away local. Yes, I am the exception that defines the rules.
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:45:00 - [38] /Signed Main /Singed Alt1 /Signed Alt2 ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:46:00 - [39] Originally by: NightmareX And by doing this, you are also making PVP a way more boring. First you will use ALOT more time to find your enemies. And how do you think it will be when you normally just can use an alt or a scout to find your enemies, and then make your fleet ready to fight the enemies when you have found them. I wont be the idiot to use a **** load of time just to find out where the enemies are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they're not on a gate doesn't it already take a load of time? Without local you would have to rely on corp/alliance chat / map stats / instinct to know what systems were worth hunting in. Scouting would become a critical full-time occupation and to be a successful pirate you would need to be part of a large-ish active corp. Put a few recon ships with probes in a system and you can find just about anything you want to. Knowing where to look, that would be the challenge. A challenge! Imagine... _
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:48:00 - [40] Originally by: whahein Originally by: Sereifex Daku All the people who are against the removal of local are jsut people who want EVE to be set on easy mode. You want easy? Play WoW. THIS is EVE Online, CCP have always tried to make this game challenging. Remove it from 0.0 systems! No thwe ones wanting to rid eve of local are calling for it to be easier for their playstyle to "win" against people on an other strategy! Also no local would make 0.0 a constant grind, I want to play the game. Not do boring, repetitive tasks (like hitting the directional scan ever 2 seconds) just to live. Like this guy said removing it would only benefit your random gankers in 0.0. Anyone that does anything else would get the shaft. Also it would just make more blobs because people couldn't get proper intel on the enemyto bring a smaller force of specialized ships. . Do not read this thread!!!

Manaswa	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:54:00 - [41] This is a new and exciting idea that I am certain will be warmly embraced by everyone.
Ddredar	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:04:00 - [42] Edited by: Ddredar on 12/07/2007 22:04:36 Edited by: Ddredar on 12/07/2007 22:03:40 This could make things a little more interesting. I agree with leaving the chat channel in, but only showing the people that want to talk. Also remove the Info option for the person, excep tmaybe leave the player name, current corp name and alliance name in the info box. If you wanted more info on a player, you would need to pay for it. Add a proxcimity scanner to the ship hud, and skill to be able to increase you range. Say, half an AU standard, an an additional AU range for each skill level for range. Maybe a skill to increase acuracy, say standard can say there are one or more players in the system, and this acuracy increases with the skill level. Level 1 could say, there are definately two other players in system, maybe more. There could even be moduals you can install to increase acuracy and range. Quote: GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL BABY!!!
NightmareX Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:05:00 - [43] Originally by: RuriHoshino Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they're not on a gate doesn't it already take a load of time? Without local you would have to rely on corp/alliance chat / map stats / instinct to know what systems were worth hunting in. Scouting would become a critical full-time occupation and to be a successful pirate you would need to be part of a large-ish active corp. Put a few recon ships with probes in a system and you can find just about anything you want to. Knowing where to look, that would be the challenge. A challenge! Imagine... My point is that you can just jump into a system now and then see how many enemies there are there if there are any in that system, and then you can see how many enemies there is. Because it's a good idea to know how many enemies there are, so we can bring the same number or more to the battlefield if we catch them. You get my point why removing local is a bad idea? Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:07:00 - [44] Edited by: Araxmas on 12/07/2007 22:08:38 If they bring back the old easy to use portable ship scanner than it's fine by me, maybe boost the scan a bit too maybe so it is more viable. Edit: on further thought that would screw up my empire waring..Keep local. -------- Robbie Rotten left me
Threv Echandari Caldari Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:15:00 - [45] This Topic Once again Rears it ugly head... Yes get rid of Local. No don't get rid of Chat. Compromise: (please listen Devs..) Stargate Broadcasts Gate activations in or out in the Overview. The Stargate Name flashes 3 colors depending on who jumped through. Red=Hostile Yellow= Neutral Green=Friendly. The Lenghth of Time Light stays on denotes the amount of whatever so if the Stargate light Flashes RED and stays on for a bit you know that theres alot of "something" over there. Lots of multicolored blinks indicate a real furball is happening in the area of the gates. This method is simple and still provides basic system informtion without giving away the farm... Someone just entering system still has to scan tofind a target. and potential targets know that someone who may or may not hurt them has come throug the gate. Each party can take whatever action they see fit. Another way is to just display in mini map and the System map the number and hostile satus of vessels that are in on the grid with only Stations and Gates. Nowhere else. There ya go 2 easy answers now Devs make it happen! Threv That's life. Some people run X accounts. With a better PC. And a faster GFX card. And on a faster network connection. While their wife brings them beer. From the fridge on their yacht.
Ddredar	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:15:00 - [46] I think the skills i suggested would work better on a percentage bases. Range could start at being able to scan 10% of the system, and that percentage increasing as the skills go up, but not being able to reach 100%. Accuracy could be similar. Standard would be 10% chance of seeing how many ships are in system. ther may be 6 or ther may be 100. And an increase of acuracy with each level you gain, and once again not being able to reach 100%. And again, moduals to help boost these abilities. Maybe even implants. Quote: GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL BABY!!!
Dr Shameless Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:17:00 - [47] keep local with total number of people in, but dont show their names until they have spoken themselves. Maybe give some functionality to onboard directional scanner so when it finds people it uncovers their names in local list.
Trind2222 Amarr The Red Ring	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:23:00 - [48] /signed
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:27:00 - [49] Originally by: NightmareX My point is that you can just jump into a system now and then see how many enemies there are there if there are any in that system, and then you can see how many enemies there is. Because it's a good idea to know how many enemies there are, so we can bring the same number or more to the battlefield if we catch them. You get my point why removing local is a bad idea? Yes, I understand your point. You want intel gathering to be fast and easy. Knowing the size and composition of the enemy fleet is critical to success in battle. My point is that because such information is crucial, it should not be free. _
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Dr Shameless keep local with total number of people in, but dont show their names until they have spoken themselves. Maybe give some functionality to onboard directional scanner so when it finds people it uncovers their names in local list. This defeats the point of being able to hide. I want someone to have to work to figure out if there is ANYONE in the system, not just to know exactly who is there.

Alexliea	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:32:00 - [51] Originally by: RuriHoshino Originally by: Crumplecorn Uhh, the stargates? Duh. Extreme duh. Extreme forgive me for not reading all the chronicles. Does it say somewhere that stargates automatically log the pilot info of everyone who uses them and then broadcasts said info to every ship in the system? And what was the reason behind this innovation? This would actually lead to a neat hacker war between gate engineers and pirates who scram their info so it isn't broadcasted. At the least there should be a skill/item that would do something similar, but only had a % chance to work. Well the gate knows who you are and also grants permission before you can use it. That's why if you make an aggressive act the gate wont let you jump. I guess you could make a skill that lets you hack it, but then wouldn't it just not let you jump if it doesn't know who you are?
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:33:00 - [52] 10 isk for whoever can find that Oveur quote where he basically said that local was never intended to be the tactical intel tool that it is. I can see both sides of the arguement. Clicking scan non-stop isn't really an option. So to me it implies at least another option besides local on or local off. There needs to be some sort of automated heads up. Perhaps a 15 au proximity alert, although that won't give a whole lot of reaction time vs an interceptor. I don't know. I have a feeling that CCP is slowly working towards something to answer this. The movement towards no static belts is likely part of that equation. Guess we wait and see. ------------------- WE'RE SORRY, SOMETHING HAPPENED
Jaden Haryl	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:43:00 - [53] Originally by: T'Laar Bok Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner QFT I think I could last about 2 minutes before making a macro to auto click for me. Why hasn't anyone stated the obvious that the current scanning system is the problem? Doesn't anyone else think it's strange that: 1. We have to drop a probe and sit there and look at it floating next to our ship for a few mintues to scan. Can't I rip the guts out of a scan prob and duct tape it to the nose of my ship so it's always there? 2. We have to manually align a directional scanner that doesn't pick up the same things the omni directional probes do and we can't warp to anything it picks up? 3. We can't upgrade out ships scanner? This seems like an obvious candidate for modules. 4. Almost every space fiction depicts a scanner that ALWAYS active(Along with RL, you think a jet pilot has to hit "scan" to detect other planes near him?), that is you don't have to click scan, the trusty on board computer can handle the uber complex function of monitoring the scanner and alerting you to what it deems important. Perhaps you can take an active role to further refine its results? When I first started playing Eve it took me some time to get used to the fact that local is sorta an alway active scanner(but was never meant to be) that gives perfect results. Also the overview is a kind of quasi always active scanner that shows whats "close" to you whatever that means, and the actual ship scanner had to be pointed by using the camera and manually activated. These factor are still a great annoyance to me as they seems like they should all be combined into a single functional system(along with scan probes). That is the overview should really be THE scanner interface and what shows up there should be based on the sensor equipment you have fitted to the ship. I mean doesn't it make sense that the overview presents you with well an overview of the important aspects of your current surroundings? Perhaps a secondary interface to take an active role in scanning things that would otherwise not need to be in your face.
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:44:00 - [54] Originally by: Roy Batty68 10 isk for whoever can find that Oveur quote where he basically said that local was never intended to be the tactical intel tool that it is. I can see both sides of the arguement. Clicking scan non-stop isn't really an option. So to me it implies at least another option besides local on or local off. There needs to be some sort of automated heads up. Perhaps a 15 au proximity alert, although that won't give a whole lot of reaction time vs an interceptor. I don't know. I have a feeling that CCP is slowly working towards something to answer this. The movement towards no static belts is likely part of that equation. Guess we wait and see. Not to mention your overview would go bat-crap insane in a fleet battle if it started showing you people who were AU's away before you were even on grid, especially if all the warp-outs safespots weren't > that distance away. A proximity alarm of some sort is a neat idea, I could see it working by detecting the gravametric distrubance of a ship's warp field, or some such thing. Having the gate's only "announce" who has entered / left the system would be a huge disadvantage for pirates, and I honestly don't want to make it impossible for them. This is a mechanic that has been left alone for too long, though, and it needs some work. _
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:56:00 - [55] Originally by: Jaden Haryl 4. Almost every space fiction depicts a scanner that ALWAYS active(Along with RL, you think a jet pilot has to hit "scan" to detect other planes near him?), that is you don't have to click scan, the trusty on board computer can handle the uber complex function of monitoring the scanner and alerting you to what it deems important. Perhaps you can take an active role to further refine its results? I'm not going to argue that the scanner could use some work. It really could be improved immensely. But you shouldn't compare Eve to RL. And if you do, get it straight. A modern jet pilot has to activate his radar to know what is out there - unless he uses his own radar, he can see it through his HUD or his system picks up another radar signal. And as soon as he uses his radar, he announces to the world that he is out there.
Chris Stormrider	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:59:00 - [56] I use cov-ops and appear in local even when cloaked. Honestly, I don't care anymore. But the "breaking radio silence" idea sounds interesting. Better than removal.
Aces Israel	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:14:00 - [57] How about a compromise? One that can be easily worked into the game... Any system where Concord protection measures are present will list everybody in local. Call it a "system status" download from Concord to your ship every time you jump into a system or undock. For systems where no Concord protection and tracking measures are in place, you only show up in local when you "break radio silence." To lessen the intelligence gathering blow somewhat, perhaps implement an active scanner that keeps you better informed of what's going on in your immediate vicinity, maybe up to a few hundred klicks out. Beyond that, force use of the manual scanner and probes. I think this solution would make the idea of local in Concord space fairly plausible, and would make low-sec and 0.0 operations far more interesting.
Dapanman1 Amarr Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.13 01:21:00 - [58] Edited by: Dapanman1 on 13/07/2007 01:20:54 Zkillz kun > hysera local is talking about ** RabidOne > what a grate local [01:12:56] Zkillz kun > dez affinity, 1v1 my tix? [01:13:17] Dez Affinity > not at the minute mate downloading ** [01:13:40] BravoFox > sweet... what are you downloading? Get rid of local NEVER Beets, you're among friends.
Ulesi FinFleet	Posted - 2007.07.13 01:47:00 - [59] Until they remove static Belt warp in points...local should stay. It is waaaaaaay easier to find someone than to stay hidden. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.13 01:48:00 - [60] i agree with you for the speaking thing - it wouldnt make a difference in high sec its not like you randomly message people you have had no other contact with in your local channels - removing it just in 0.0 would be good enough - check my thread - but theres no reason to keep it anywhere at all ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some



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