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FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.12 19:44:00 - [1] I am so sick of this, every time a pirate comes into the system where I am running missions, they automatically know when I started playing, my corp, my name, and anything else they care to find out about me. Then all they have to do is scan for my ship and say "Yarr! I can take this newb!" My solution: get rid of local... I cannot claim to be the first to suggest this, and I surely won't be the last, but it's a good idea. I don't know why getting rid of local automatically benefits pirates. It could also benefit mission runners and, eventually, miners. How? Well, I am a mission runner. So, let's say I am in low sec, running a mission. A pirate comes into the system. Without local, he doesn't automatically know I am in the system, or that anyone is in the system. So, he might just fly right through. It makes the pirate have to actually stop and look to see who is in the neighborhood. The pirate has to check his scanner to see who is around. Or rather, to see what ships are in the system. Once he finds a ship on the list, he has to figure out where it is. Among other things, he has to sort through all the ships at POSs to find me. All he knows is that there is a ship somewhere out there. Then, once he finds my ship's location, he has to figure out whether he can take me out. As long as I have changed my ship name, he cannot get intel on me until he actually sees me. Since I am not a moron, my ship is not named "FT Diomedes Easily Ganked Mission Running Ship." So, he doesn't know whether my character is 3 weeks old or 3 years old until he sees my ship in person. If he doesn't know what corp I am in until he sees me, he doesn't know whether I have 5 friends waiting at a SS or in the next system or somewhere else close by. As for me, I don't know he is there either. But I'm in a mission deadspace, checking my scanner every so often. I'm aligned for warp and I have dropped cans by the warp in point (so that he hopefully uncloaks when he warps in). If I see probes, I can be extra alert. If someone jumps in my mission, I'm calling for backup or warping to SS. What will be the result of getting rid of local? People who are willing to invest some time and energy will still find targets. It will take a lot more time and a lot more patience. Those who cannot find people will gatecamp more. People who want to be inconspicuous can be. Space will be a whole lot bigger. What will have to happen to make this viable? Well, static belts would have to go. It's not a bad idea in itself. Make it so that you can find belts using the onboard scanner. This might also help cutdown on macro mining. It might be harder to meet people - that's the biggest reason not to get rid of it. It makes Eve seem even more lonely and desolate. It will be harder to talk smack. But I am sure various channels will spring up to replace it. Or you could make it so that talking in local automatically shows you as present. If you want to announce your presence, feel free. if not, then just keep quiet. This wouldn't just make low sec more interesting, it would also make high sec more interesting. Let's say you get wardecced. You can actually hide from your enemies unless they are constantly checking the locator agents. As for 0.0, it might actually allow someone to launch a true surprise attack. It's pretty obvious what is going on when you see the local channel suddenly has 150 reds in it. But if you had to have scouts seeing which gates people were using and seeing who was actually present... the tactical and strategic game gets more exciting. FT Diomedes prepares for flames... but hopes for constructive commentary.
Gort Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.07.12 19:54:00 - [2] I continue to support the removal of the local window function that automatically displays every pilot in the system. Regards, Gort -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.12 19:59:00 - [3] I bet there's never been a thread whining about this before.
Plave Okice Naughty 40 Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:03:00 - [4] Edited by: Plave Okice on 12/07/2007 20:02:58 Originally by: Gort I continue to support the removal of the local window function that automatically displays every pilot in the system. Regards, Gort As do I No local will make space much more interesting, add an optional system chat if you just want to talk crap in Jita and improved monitoring systems for POS in systems with sovereignty. Also surely having a channel load and update for every player in every system adds server load.
Milton Keynes Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:10:00 - [5] I fully endorse this idea and/or product Local is pants - at least remove it from 0.0!
Nhor Haen	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:14:00 - [6] I could only see supporting this if they also added an option to the directional scanner to inform you if a ship warped to within max scanning distance (~14 AU I believe). Cause otherwise anyone mining or ratting in low sec/0.0 would have no choice but to scan every 30 seconds whenever they were undocked.
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:18:00 - [7] and you will never know if the gate is camped, your station is camped, that your being scanned out... I say no way, leave it as it is.
Gift Amarr Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:20:00 - [8] Local needed to go in 2003 & still does. The only place local should be an option is high sec. Pirates of Eve, Join channel "Pirate" Today!
StuntmanMike	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:23:00 - [9] Originally by: John Blackthorn and you will never know if the gate is camped, your station is camped, that your being scanned out... You have a scanner on your ship. Learn to use it. Local. Gonzo. Now.
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:24:00 - [10] I have a better idea - make local optional. It equalizes the playing field somewhat. You can avoid being seen by others... at the cost of not being able to see them. Turning off local would make sense if you are a mission runner, or if you are being hunted by a gang - until, that is, they drive you into a trap. ____________________________________ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom

Jake Devlin Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:24:00 - [11] I don't mind getting rid of the Intel gathering ability of local (pvper will adapt) but I'd like to see the local channel itself stay. Personally like the ability to talk to everyone in the system. the chat system in eve is the best I've seen, I hate the wow style chat. ]
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:25:00 - [12] Once again, for the x-th time, local needs to go. Yessir. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Lea Re CAPITAL TRUST FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:31:00 - [13] Originally by: John Blackthorn and you will never know if the gate is camped, your station is camped, that your being scanned out... I say no way, leave it as it is. 1. learn to defend your space (word intel should ring a bell) 2. there's specialised ships for scanning: covert ops, recons 3. on board scanner is useful as well so, its all a matter of organising yourself. removing local would increase survivability of SMART people in 0.0. And not only in 0.0 LOCAL was designed to be a CHAT tool, not INTEL tool. That was stated by CCP. Let it be an optional chat tool then.
Dietes Marcellus	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:32:00 - [14] Don't get rid of it, just make it so you can't see who is in it unless they say something. That way carebares can still ***** and complain when they get scanned out and killed anyways.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:43:00 - [15] clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner Uhhh, no. I somehow think Eve would be much less fun to play if I had to click the scanner every 10 seconds to ensure that the gank wasn't coming in on me, or if I had to somehow get my friends to camp every single gate 23/7 to ensure that nobody gets in, or pray that the map statistics are accurate, or maintain a fleet of alt accounts at 100s of isk or $15 per. Besides, aren't you trying to draw people to lowsec/0.0? I'm sure the numbers will decline farther if you implement such measures that pretty much shaft anyone not looking for ganking. Also, there's the little matter of ships at POSes. As long as you change the ships left out every so often, you could seriously screw up activity around a given planet/14.7 AU range. Passive scanning is not the answer if you get rid of local. (Well, I guess you could set it to a 5 degree scan and check the moons like you would checking for a target ...) Couple that with sitting around all the time hoping to find a belt on the OTHER scanner, and bye bye lowsec. No real reason to go in there ... Of course, since ANY argument for keeping local in is dismissed as noobish/not hardcore enough/go play WoW, I probably should have not bothered writing this, but whatever. All fear Zeke S., the non-hardcore nooblet who appreciates local and what it does for my intel.
Luigi Thirty Caldari 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:44:00 - [16] In this thread it is the year 2003 ---- DOMINIX IS INVINCIBLE:((((
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:46:00 - [17] How about this - local shows how many players are in the system and that's it? Sounds like a decent compromise. Or maybe something like "X unique incoming gate activations in the last hour?"
goatplasma Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:48:00 - [18] I do hope CCP do not remove this vital piece of intel gathering.
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:54:00 - [19] People seem to assume that it would either benefit one party or another. "OMGS Piwats will wuv dis!" or "Carebears will move to lowsec risk free and all pewpew in eve will die." (I'm paraphrasing mightily here) How about removing it because it makes no goddamn sense? Space, as at least one famous author has said, is BIG. The odds of you finding a single tiny hunk of metal that's barely moving (on a system-wide scale) with something like c-limited RADAR is freaking astronomical, no pun intended. Scan probes make this feat achievable, but nothing NOTHING should just tell you automagically how many people are in a given system, who they are, and who they work for, with zero effort or skill invested. Make Local Optional. Then it still exists as a chat interface, but is removed as a wallhack mechanic.
Sereifex Daku	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:55:00 - [20] I agree completely with the OP, it would force intelligence gathering to be harder, and therefore require skill. All the people who are against the removal of local are jsut people who want EVE to be set on easy mode. You want easy? Play WoW. THIS is EVE Online, CCP have always tried to make this game challenging. Remove it from 0.0 systems!

Vantoth Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:59:00 - [21] Edited by: Vantoth on 12/07/2007 20:59:18 Keep the local chat box, just get rid of the counter on the tab and the pics of pilots when they warp in.
goatplasma Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:01:00 - [22] Originally by: RuriHoshino People seem to assume that it would either benefit one party or another. "OMGS Piwats will wuv dis!" or "Carebears will move to lowsec risk free and all pewpew in eve will die." (I'm paraphrasing mightily here) How about removing it because it makes no goddamn sense? Space, as at least one famous author has said, is BIG. The odds of you finding a single tiny hunk of metal that's barely moving (on a system-wide scale) with something like c-limited RADAR is freaking astronomical, no pun intended. Scan probes make this feat achievable, but nothing NOTHING should just tell you automagically how many people are in a given system, who they are, and who they work for, with zero effort or skill invested. Make Local Optional. Then it still exists as a chat interface, but is removed as a wallhack mechanic. First fact of EVE: EVE does not represent real life Seriously, what on earth happened to Newtons laws of motion in EVE?
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:06:00 - [23] Originally by: goatplasma First fact of EVE: EVE does not represent real life Seriously, what on earth happened to Newtons laws of motion in EVE? They went out of almost every space game ever made when it became clear that people would have to spend 99% of their time just navigating. I agree that EVE != real life, but it is clearly based on certain real life principles. If they didn't want us to feel a certain connection with IRL warfare, they could have called frigates "gumsticks" or something equally weird. Some things translate well to video games, and some don't. Local as it exists is something that makes no sense in game or out. _
Frisky Minx	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:08:00 - [24] How about, an char info tab on/off checkbox You want your stuff read, on. you want it not read, off. Never see who you're up against
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:11:00 - [25] Originally by: RuriHoshino How about removing it because it makes no goddamn sense? Space, as at least one famous author has said, is BIG. The odds of you finding a single tiny hunk of metal that's barely moving (on a system-wide scale) with something like c-limited RADAR are freaking astronomical, no pun intended. Scan probes make this feat achievable, but nothing NOTHING should just tell you automagically how many people are in a given system, who they are, and who they work for, with zero effort or skill invested. Uhh, the stargates? Duh. Extreme duh. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Ddredar	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Dietes Marcellus Don't get rid of it, just make it so you can't see who is in it unless they say something. That way carebares can still *** and complain when they get scanned out and killed anyways. I agree with this one. Quote:** GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL BABY!!!
NightmareX Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:17:00 - [27] Oh WOW, mission runners can't run missions safe in low sec, and therefor have to remove the local? OMG, HELLO, the local is a social part of the game. Remove local and you remove some communication part of the game to. I want to talk with my friends (not peoples that are in the same corp as me) when i see them in local, so you all want to remove that? Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Crumplecorn Uhh, the stargates? Duh. Extreme duh. Extreme forgive me for not reading all the chronicles. Does it say somewhere that stargates automatically log the pilot info of everyone who uses them and then broadcasts said info to every ship in the system? And what was the reason behind this innovation? This would actually lead to a neat hacker war between gate engineers and pirates who scram their info so it isn't broadcasted. At the least there should be a skill/item that would do something similar, but only had a % chance to work. _
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:20:00 - [29] Originally by: NightmareX Oh WOW, mission runners can't run missions safe in low sec, and therefor have to remove the local? OMG, HELLO, the local is a social part of the game. Remove local and you remove some communication part of the game to. I want to talk with my friends (not peoples that are in the same corp as me) when i see them in local, so you all want to remove that? I can easily envision an option that would allow you to be seen by corpmates or whoever you chose, much like the overview can be arranged. And hey, sometimes you just don't feel like talking to anyone, ya know? _
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:32:00 - [30] Originally by: NightmareX Oh WOW, mission runners can't run missions safe in low sec, and therefor have to remove the local? OMG, HELLO, the local is a social part of the game. Remove local and you remove some communication part of the game to. I want to talk with my friends (not peoples that are in the same corp as me) when i see them in local, so you all want to remove that? If you want to chat in local, feel free to. But everyone in the system should then know you are there. While if I keep my mouth shut, no one knows I am there. In the alternative, you can form your own channel for your friends to join. It's really simple. That's how I keep in touch with my ex-corpmates.

Lucky 8 Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:32:00 - [31] This is a LOCAL channel for LOCAL people, we'll have no ganking here. -- Originally by: Nicho Void This thread is like a chum slick for forum alt trolls.
whahein Minmatar Bipolar Barnstorming	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:36:00 - [32] Originally by: Sereifex Daku All the people who are against the removal of local are jsut people who want EVE to be set on easy mode. You want easy? Play WoW. THIS is EVE Online, CCP have always tried to make this game challenging. Remove it from 0.0 systems! No thwe ones wanting to rid eve of local are calling for it to be easier for their playstyle to "win" against people on an other strategy! Eve is a dark highly political roleplaying spacship simulator, not counterstrike in space, It's alway been played on more levels then just running around killing all in sight, imagine hunting on a NRDS policy with no local So you dont want local to be a intel tool, thats sort of like saying you dont want jet cans to be used for mining, it's silly because it's been a part of eve forever. Instas were boardeline exploits, and it certainly was never intended tat agility and not speed would be the deciding factor in travel time, but in the end CCP decided that it would create far to many issues removing the ability to move a BS fleet fastish, detecting the blob well i can do that on 50 jumps distance using the map. getting a ship count sure just use the scanner, it can be macro'ed so isk farmers will just be more safe. I have a hard time seeing any real benefit of no local and the idea of a optional local as replacement for the social aspect is just silly, it's adding a penalty to those that dont maintain radio silence, nothing more. BTW this damn debate has been gone on far to long we need a dev repply on this soon.
NightmareX Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:37:00 - [33] And by doing this, you are also making PVP a way more boring. First you will use ALOT more time to find your enemies. And how do you think it will be when you normally just can use an alt or a scout to find your enemies, and then make your fleet ready to fight the enemies when you have found them. I wont be the idiot to use a ** load of time just to find out where the enemies are. Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred**
grimda	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:37:00 - [34] I like your suggestion - original post - but this might be better" Keep Local. Add: Dummy Ship/Pilot Countermeasures A little launcher someone can use to launch into a system a small probe that will broadcast the 'presence' of a real representation of themselves that can be seen in local. It last a little while. Pirates have to actually hunt for you and cant be sure your really there.
T'Laar Bok	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:40:00 - [35] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner QFT I think I could last about 2 minutes before making a macro to auto click for me.
Matroshka Crimson Squall Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:41:00 - [36] Edited by: Matroshka on 12/07/2007 21:40:48 Originally by: Nachshon I have a better idea - make local optional. It equalizes the playing field somewhat. You can avoid being seen by others... at the cost of not being able to see them. Turning off local would make sense if you are a mission runner, or if you are being hunted by a gang - until, that is, they drive you into a trap. Why would anyone want to been seen in local if it was an option? If local is removed, I think the chat box should remain and I also think that friendlies should be shown. It would suck to blindly scan out a system and finally find a target only to realize they are blue. -------------
Ga'len Amarr Wandering Druid	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:42:00 - [37] Being hunted by pirates is only one aspect of this game. EVE is a community and when you begin to limit the ways a community can communicate, that's when you kill it. So, no, don't take away local. Yes, I am the exception that defines the rules.
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:45:00 - [38] /Signed Main /Singed Alt1 /Signed Alt2 ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:46:00 - [39] Originally by: NightmareX And by doing this, you are also making PVP a way more boring. First you will use ALOT more time to find your enemies. And how do you think it will be when you normally just can use an alt or a scout to find your enemies, and then make your fleet ready to fight the enemies when you have found them. I wont be the idiot to use a **** load of time just to find out where the enemies are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they're not on a gate doesn't it already take a load of time? Without local you would have to rely on corp/alliance chat / map stats / instinct to know what systems were worth hunting in. Scouting would become a critical full-time occupation and to be a successful pirate you would need to be part of a large-ish active corp. Put a few recon ships with probes in a system and you can find just about anything you want to. Knowing where to look, that would be the challenge. A challenge! Imagine... _
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:48:00 - [40] Originally by: whahein Originally by: Sereifex Daku All the people who are against the removal of local are jsut people who want EVE to be set on easy mode. You want easy? Play WoW. THIS is EVE Online, CCP have always tried to make this game challenging. Remove it from 0.0 systems! No thwe ones wanting to rid eve of local are calling for it to be easier for their playstyle to "win" against people on an other strategy! Also no local would make 0.0 a constant grind, I want to play the game. Not do boring, repetitive tasks (like hitting the directional scan ever 2 seconds) just to live. Like this guy said removing it would only benefit your random gankers in 0.0. Anyone that does anything else would get the shaft. Also it would just make more blobs because people couldn't get proper intel on the enemyto bring a smaller force of specialized ships. . Do not read this thread!!!

Manaswa	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:54:00 - [41] This is a new and exciting idea that I am certain will be warmly embraced by everyone.
Ddredar	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:04:00 - [42] Edited by: Ddredar on 12/07/2007 22:04:36 Edited by: Ddredar on 12/07/2007 22:03:40 This could make things a little more interesting. I agree with leaving the chat channel in, but only showing the people that want to talk. Also remove the Info option for the person, excep tmaybe leave the player name, current corp name and alliance name in the info box. If you wanted more info on a player, you would need to pay for it. Add a proxcimity scanner to the ship hud, and skill to be able to increase you range. Say, half an AU standard, an an additional AU range for each skill level for range. Maybe a skill to increase acuracy, say standard can say there are one or more players in the system, and this acuracy increases with the skill level. Level 1 could say, there are definately two other players in system, maybe more. There could even be moduals you can install to increase acuracy and range. Quote: GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL BABY!!!
NightmareX Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:05:00 - [43] Originally by: RuriHoshino Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they're not on a gate doesn't it already take a load of time? Without local you would have to rely on corp/alliance chat / map stats / instinct to know what systems were worth hunting in. Scouting would become a critical full-time occupation and to be a successful pirate you would need to be part of a large-ish active corp. Put a few recon ships with probes in a system and you can find just about anything you want to. Knowing where to look, that would be the challenge. A challenge! Imagine... My point is that you can just jump into a system now and then see how many enemies there are there if there are any in that system, and then you can see how many enemies there is. Because it's a good idea to know how many enemies there are, so we can bring the same number or more to the battlefield if we catch them. You get my point why removing local is a bad idea? Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:07:00 - [44] Edited by: Araxmas on 12/07/2007 22:08:38 If they bring back the old easy to use portable ship scanner than it's fine by me, maybe boost the scan a bit too maybe so it is more viable. Edit: on further thought that would screw up my empire waring..Keep local. -------- Robbie Rotten left me
Threv Echandari Caldari Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:15:00 - [45] This Topic Once again Rears it ugly head... Yes get rid of Local. No don't get rid of Chat. Compromise: (please listen Devs..) Stargate Broadcasts Gate activations in or out in the Overview. The Stargate Name flashes 3 colors depending on who jumped through. Red=Hostile Yellow= Neutral Green=Friendly. The Lenghth of Time Light stays on denotes the amount of whatever so if the Stargate light Flashes RED and stays on for a bit you know that theres alot of "something" over there. Lots of multicolored blinks indicate a real furball is happening in the area of the gates. This method is simple and still provides basic system informtion without giving away the farm... Someone just entering system still has to scan tofind a target. and potential targets know that someone who may or may not hurt them has come throug the gate. Each party can take whatever action they see fit. Another way is to just display in mini map and the System map the number and hostile satus of vessels that are in on the grid with only Stations and Gates. Nowhere else. There ya go 2 easy answers now Devs make it happen! Threv That's life. Some people run X accounts. With a better PC. And a faster GFX card. And on a faster network connection. While their wife brings them beer. From the fridge on their yacht.
Ddredar	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:15:00 - [46] I think the skills i suggested would work better on a percentage bases. Range could start at being able to scan 10% of the system, and that percentage increasing as the skills go up, but not being able to reach 100%. Accuracy could be similar. Standard would be 10% chance of seeing how many ships are in system. ther may be 6 or ther may be 100. And an increase of acuracy with each level you gain, and once again not being able to reach 100%. And again, moduals to help boost these abilities. Maybe even implants. Quote: GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL BABY!!!
Dr Shameless Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:17:00 - [47] keep local with total number of people in, but dont show their names until they have spoken themselves. Maybe give some functionality to onboard directional scanner so when it finds people it uncovers their names in local list.
Trind2222 Amarr The Red Ring	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:23:00 - [48] /signed
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:27:00 - [49] Originally by: NightmareX My point is that you can just jump into a system now and then see how many enemies there are there if there are any in that system, and then you can see how many enemies there is. Because it's a good idea to know how many enemies there are, so we can bring the same number or more to the battlefield if we catch them. You get my point why removing local is a bad idea? Yes, I understand your point. You want intel gathering to be fast and easy. Knowing the size and composition of the enemy fleet is critical to success in battle. My point is that because such information is crucial, it should not be free. _
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Dr Shameless keep local with total number of people in, but dont show their names until they have spoken themselves. Maybe give some functionality to onboard directional scanner so when it finds people it uncovers their names in local list. This defeats the point of being able to hide. I want someone to have to work to figure out if there is ANYONE in the system, not just to know exactly who is there.

Alexliea	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:32:00 - [51] Originally by: RuriHoshino Originally by: Crumplecorn Uhh, the stargates? Duh. Extreme duh. Extreme forgive me for not reading all the chronicles. Does it say somewhere that stargates automatically log the pilot info of everyone who uses them and then broadcasts said info to every ship in the system? And what was the reason behind this innovation? This would actually lead to a neat hacker war between gate engineers and pirates who scram their info so it isn't broadcasted. At the least there should be a skill/item that would do something similar, but only had a % chance to work. Well the gate knows who you are and also grants permission before you can use it. That's why if you make an aggressive act the gate wont let you jump. I guess you could make a skill that lets you hack it, but then wouldn't it just not let you jump if it doesn't know who you are?
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:33:00 - [52] 10 isk for whoever can find that Oveur quote where he basically said that local was never intended to be the tactical intel tool that it is. I can see both sides of the arguement. Clicking scan non-stop isn't really an option. So to me it implies at least another option besides local on or local off. There needs to be some sort of automated heads up. Perhaps a 15 au proximity alert, although that won't give a whole lot of reaction time vs an interceptor. I don't know. I have a feeling that CCP is slowly working towards something to answer this. The movement towards no static belts is likely part of that equation. Guess we wait and see. ------------------- WE'RE SORRY, SOMETHING HAPPENED
Jaden Haryl	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:43:00 - [53] Originally by: T'Laar Bok Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner clicks scanner QFT I think I could last about 2 minutes before making a macro to auto click for me. Why hasn't anyone stated the obvious that the current scanning system is the problem? Doesn't anyone else think it's strange that: 1. We have to drop a probe and sit there and look at it floating next to our ship for a few mintues to scan. Can't I rip the guts out of a scan prob and duct tape it to the nose of my ship so it's always there? 2. We have to manually align a directional scanner that doesn't pick up the same things the omni directional probes do and we can't warp to anything it picks up? 3. We can't upgrade out ships scanner? This seems like an obvious candidate for modules. 4. Almost every space fiction depicts a scanner that ALWAYS active(Along with RL, you think a jet pilot has to hit "scan" to detect other planes near him?), that is you don't have to click scan, the trusty on board computer can handle the uber complex function of monitoring the scanner and alerting you to what it deems important. Perhaps you can take an active role to further refine its results? When I first started playing Eve it took me some time to get used to the fact that local is sorta an alway active scanner(but was never meant to be) that gives perfect results. Also the overview is a kind of quasi always active scanner that shows whats "close" to you whatever that means, and the actual ship scanner had to be pointed by using the camera and manually activated. These factor are still a great annoyance to me as they seems like they should all be combined into a single functional system(along with scan probes). That is the overview should really be THE scanner interface and what shows up there should be based on the sensor equipment you have fitted to the ship. I mean doesn't it make sense that the overview presents you with well an overview of the important aspects of your current surroundings? Perhaps a secondary interface to take an active role in scanning things that would otherwise not need to be in your face.
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:44:00 - [54] Originally by: Roy Batty68 10 isk for whoever can find that Oveur quote where he basically said that local was never intended to be the tactical intel tool that it is. I can see both sides of the arguement. Clicking scan non-stop isn't really an option. So to me it implies at least another option besides local on or local off. There needs to be some sort of automated heads up. Perhaps a 15 au proximity alert, although that won't give a whole lot of reaction time vs an interceptor. I don't know. I have a feeling that CCP is slowly working towards something to answer this. The movement towards no static belts is likely part of that equation. Guess we wait and see. Not to mention your overview would go bat-crap insane in a fleet battle if it started showing you people who were AU's away before you were even on grid, especially if all the warp-outs safespots weren't > that distance away. A proximity alarm of some sort is a neat idea, I could see it working by detecting the gravametric distrubance of a ship's warp field, or some such thing. Having the gate's only "announce" who has entered / left the system would be a huge disadvantage for pirates, and I honestly don't want to make it impossible for them. This is a mechanic that has been left alone for too long, though, and it needs some work. _
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:56:00 - [55] Originally by: Jaden Haryl 4. Almost every space fiction depicts a scanner that ALWAYS active(Along with RL, you think a jet pilot has to hit "scan" to detect other planes near him?), that is you don't have to click scan, the trusty on board computer can handle the uber complex function of monitoring the scanner and alerting you to what it deems important. Perhaps you can take an active role to further refine its results? I'm not going to argue that the scanner could use some work. It really could be improved immensely. But you shouldn't compare Eve to RL. And if you do, get it straight. A modern jet pilot has to activate his radar to know what is out there - unless he uses his own radar, he can see it through his HUD or his system picks up another radar signal. And as soon as he uses his radar, he announces to the world that he is out there.
Chris Stormrider	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:59:00 - [56] I use cov-ops and appear in local even when cloaked. Honestly, I don't care anymore. But the "breaking radio silence" idea sounds interesting. Better than removal.
Aces Israel	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:14:00 - [57] How about a compromise? One that can be easily worked into the game... Any system where Concord protection measures are present will list everybody in local. Call it a "system status" download from Concord to your ship every time you jump into a system or undock. For systems where no Concord protection and tracking measures are in place, you only show up in local when you "break radio silence." To lessen the intelligence gathering blow somewhat, perhaps implement an active scanner that keeps you better informed of what's going on in your immediate vicinity, maybe up to a few hundred klicks out. Beyond that, force use of the manual scanner and probes. I think this solution would make the idea of local in Concord space fairly plausible, and would make low-sec and 0.0 operations far more interesting.
Dapanman1 Amarr Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.13 01:21:00 - [58] Edited by: Dapanman1 on 13/07/2007 01:20:54 Zkillz kun > hysera local is talking about ** RabidOne > what a grate local [01:12:56] Zkillz kun > dez affinity, 1v1 my tix? [01:13:17] Dez Affinity > not at the minute mate downloading ** [01:13:40] BravoFox > sweet... what are you downloading? Get rid of local NEVER Beets, you're among friends.
Ulesi FinFleet	Posted - 2007.07.13 01:47:00 - [59] Until they remove static Belt warp in points...local should stay. It is waaaaaaay easier to find someone than to stay hidden. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.13 01:48:00 - [60] i agree with you for the speaking thing - it wouldnt make a difference in high sec its not like you randomly message people you have had no other contact with in your local channels - removing it just in 0.0 would be good enough - check my thread - but theres no reason to keep it anywhere at all ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some

Andraea Sarstae	Posted - 2007.07.13 04:34:00 - [61] Quote: How about removing it because it makes no goddamn sense? Space, as at least one famous author has said, is BIG. The odds of you finding a single tiny hunk of metal that's barely moving (on a system-wide scale) with something like c-limited RADAR are freaking astronomical, no pun intended. Scan probes make this feat achievable, but nothing NOTHING should just tell you automagically how many people are in a given system, who they are, and who they work for, with zero effort or skill invested. I couldn't agree more. In my six months playing, this is the one thing that REALLY never made much sense to me. The chat system should be for chatting, not warning you of incoming trouble.
Ddredar	Posted - 2007.07.13 04:37:00 - [62] I know it probably won't happen, but it would be nice to get a DEV opinion on this. Quote: GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL BABY!!!
Strepsils	Posted - 2007.07.13 04:39:00 - [63] Originally by: StuntmanMike Originally by: John Blackthorn and you will never know if the gate is camped, your station is camped, that your being scanned out... You have a scanner on your ship. Learn to use it. Local. Gonzo. Now. That's clever. What if I'm docked, and I need to know if 150 hostiles are sitting outside the station?
OHGODSPIES	Posted - 2007.07.13 04:41:00 - [64] Remove local and give those poor cov ops/astro frig pilots a spot in all gangs. And, y'know, get people to use the astrometrics timesink too.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:02:00 - [65] Local is fine the way it is; without it in its current form, it would be a real pain in the ass to find people. Everyone always touts the scanner as the end all be all solution to finding people, but have you ever used to actually pin point people and not just "guess" where they are. No local = player interactions cut by atleast half to three quarters. You'd only ever see people at gates, which would make gate camping (an already annoying requirement due to the size of EVE space) a much more common thing.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:10:00 - [66] Removal of local would be even easier if Overview scan range was extended to 15 AU just like manual scanner. Overview would show ships that are offgrid but display no more information than a regular scanner does. It would be enough to be alerted of new ships in 15 AU range to make local nerf not so bad.
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:14:00 - [67] Well, to me what makes no sense is that a weapon as powerful as scan probes hasn't been countered by any of the factions. I say remove local, but give the carebears a module that hides them from scanners/probes
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:15:00 - [68] Originally by: Strepsils What if I'm docked, and I need to know if 150 hostiles are sitting outside the station? You open the map and check for blob. You can ask a friend for scout info. You can check with your alt (everyone has scout alts, don't deny it) You can undock, scan, and redock within the 30 second invulnerability timer. You can't even be bumped.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:16:00 - [69] Originally by: Gojyu Well, to me what makes no sense is that a weapon as powerful as scan probes hasn't been countered by any of the factions. I say remove local, but give the carebears a module that hides them from scanners/probes Right now carebears has great advantages in 0.0, mostly due to local and easy cloaking. Local nerf should slightly shift balance in favor of attackers.
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:19:00 - [70] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: Gojyu Well, to me what makes no sense is that a weapon as powerful as scan probes hasn't been countered by any of the factions. I say remove local, but give the carebears a module that hides them from scanners/probes Right now carebears has great advantages in 0.0, mostly due to local and easy cloaking. Local nerf should slightly shift balance in favor of attackers. It does slightly shift the balance, as long as you give the module harsh penalties wcs-style. Make fitting the module a harsh choice and then you've got a slight shift to the attackers, you can manually warp to belts to check for miners without them seeing you coming, and you can scan down mission runners fairly easily

Andraea Sarstae	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:32:00 - [71] Edited by: Andraea Sarstae on 13/07/2007 05:34:21 Dev Blog on Local Wonder why they never did anything with this.
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:44:00 - [72] Edited by: Matthew Cooper on 13/07/2007 05:44:11 Originally by: Andraea Sarstae Wonder why they never did anything with this. Originally by: Oveur Just to clarify some things, these are ideas, not something that is scheduled for implementation. Signature starts here: Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
Duckeye	Posted - 2007.07.13 06:20:00 - [73] I wouldn't mind removing local as long as they granted the ability to check blind spots, a good example would be an option that allows you to view the situation outside of the station before undocking, you can look around along with all the information from your overview just as if you were flying your ship, once you decide it's clear you can complete undocking and your ship comes out with a press of the button. In a perfect world I'd get rid of gates all together, it's really the greatest hinderance against the growth of guerrila like small-squad tactics in eve. Right now the game is designed like a chain of balls on a very long piece of string. You warp from one side of the ball to the other and use the gate to go through the string to the next ball and you are totally blind on whats on the other side of that gate until you go through. I hate the fact that in order for anyone to get from one system to another in lawless space that they have to go through a public common meeting point...what would be better is if you took all those balls on the chain and got rid of the string all together, combine all the systems together to just form one really huge ball. With that the scanning systems will be the primary eyes of every ship at all times, as I think it should be, because each and every star-system won't be like "individual rooms" like they are right now. The game would be more fluid and whole concept wise. Static belts are to be removed, etc. etc (which is coming along anyway)...It's the fear that makes people not want to go into lowsec or 0.0, the fear of whats on the other side of a gate. If you give people room to beath they will risk it more. It would of course totally change eve about 100% and I'm sure a lot of people would be seriously ****ed, not to mention the fact that they would have to basically rework the entire game from the ground up...but it's just my opinion, I know that it's nowhere in the future of this game but it's just something I'd like to see implemented in a further game.
Omak Topal Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.13 07:05:00 - [74] I fully support this idea. lets make it so that less and less people risk going into low sec or 0.0 alone, and promote more blobs moving throughout eve. --------[sig]--------- I didn't do it, i swear!
Strepsils	Posted - 2007.07.13 07:12:00 - [75] Edited by: Strepsils on 13/07/2007 07:12:47 Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: Strepsils What if I'm docked, and I need to know if 150 hostiles are sitting outside the station? You open the map and check for blob. You can ask a friend for scout info. You can check with your alt (everyone has scout alts, don't deny it) You can undock, scan, and redock within the 30 second invulnerability timer. You can't even be bumped. What if I play alone and live in NPC stations in STAIN? What if I don't have an alt? Fact that you have Falcon alt doesn't mean everyone has an alt. Since when you can't be bumped? More often than not, I needed LOCAL more to figure out who of my alliance mates are in LOCAL, as opposed to checking which hostiles are in local. I can only imagine alliance chat spam if LOCAL gets removed, because noone knows what the hell is going on. Gankers would die to see LOCAL removed, since that allows them to get into system without being noticed, and get out of system in the same manner. EDIT: And sure, when maps starts being updated in real time, and starts showing correct data, then I'm all for using map. Until then...
Lucas Avidius Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.07.13 07:17:00 - [76] Heres my take on the local thingamajiggy: it needs to be changed at least somehow. Ive got a few ideas, too. In high sec, local should remain as it is currently due to high concord presence and all that other roleplay razzmataz. In low sec, local should show the count of people in the system, but no ones identities unless theyre activly talking over it. In 0.0, local should display unknown at all times, and only show portraits if people are talking. Systems with soverignty could potentially upgrade to either the low sec or high sec local systems with POS modules. There are some other changes that would need to be made for this. First off, since people in low sec/0.0 would only be able to find other people through the ship scanner and scan probes, make ships parked inside a POS shield not show up on the ships scanner at all. Say, the scanning method is too weak to penetrate the shield at distances farther than off grid. Probe scanning should see them, but also indicate that there is a POS shield between the scanprobe and the ship being scanned. Secondly, in all sec space, make an option to have ships that use the existing ship scanner show up briefly in your overview as their ship type. So say, if Joe Schmoe is in a 0.0 belt ratting in his raven, and some guy in a gank fitted megathron shows up and scans him from the planet, Joe would see "Megathron" display on his overview for a few seconds, at an approximate-but not exact-range it scanned from, perhaps flashing to get his attention. At the same time, Mister Gankathron at the planet sees "Raven" at the same approximate range, but unless hes using a narrow scan, that raven could be at any of the belts inside his scanning cone and reasonably within the reported range. Dont submarine sonar systems in the real world work somewhat like this with active scanning? It makes sense from a physics and a role playing stand point I think. Third, extend the range of the ship scanner, but have it give a delayed result time, just like real life sonar systems that can only see something after the sound generated by their ping reflects back after a few seconds. A speed of a few AU/sec should be reasonable, and might also help to decrease server lag as the server would only have to send a few scanned objects in data packets that are considerably more spread apart than the giant packets all at once that it sends now. Fourth, introduce modules and rigs to increase the power and usefulness of the on board scanner. Of course dont make it quite as powerful as a dedicated scan probe launcher, but make it vastly more useable than it is now. Finally, a more realistic Friend or Foe system would need to be introduced, because as someone else in this thread already said, it would be a pain in the butt to go through the trouble of locating a target only to find out that its a blue.
Caligulus Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.07.13 07:19:00 - [77] If local is removed in 0.0 the sovereignty holder (and it's members) should get a timestamped notice of a gate activation in the system. The soveriegn of that solar system and it's members should also have a list of current members online and active in the system... you know what... If I have sovereignty of the system, I see local as it is now. If you don't have sovereignty, you don't see it.
whahein Minmatar Bipolar Barnstorming	Posted - 2007.07.13 10:43:00 - [78] Originally by: Ephemeron Removal of local would be even easier if Overview scan range was extended to 15 AU just like manual scanner. Overview would show ships that are offgrid but display no more information than a regular scanner does. It would be enough to be alerted of new ships in 15 AU range to make local nerf not so bad. This thread have run it's usual course people are once again reinventing local as a pure intel tool for the nbsi crowd, using varius modifications to overview and scanner, leaving us with a status qou and eve's most importent cross corp socialisation tool gone! Ohh and now someone found the dev blog, and as we all knew it's 3 years old, CCP never acted upon it making it as good as useless in dertermining wheater or not local should go, 3 years and local stayed i gues that means CCP turned around and now think local as intel is Good(tm) as theyu did with jet can mining and warp to zero.
Hubert Bonmarchais	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:16:00 - [79] Players voted NO to the "Remove local ?" poll 3 years ago. We have to deal with it. Democracy ftw.
Tom Gunn Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:26:00 - [80] I'm in favour of this - only show your name if you speak in local. With that said, I do think they'd need to add ways of obtaining better intel for soverign holders or people with high faction in high sec space. E.g. intelligence gathering modules for POS's that could of course be offlined like turrets by attackers (knocking out an opponents intel is one of the first things done in modern warfare). Oh, and upgrade those pre WW2 scanners we're using on futuristic spaceships!

Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:34:00 - [81] Originally by: Milton Keynes I fully endorse this idea and/or product Local is pants - at least remove it from 0.0! And low sec, don't forget the solo pirates
Shevar Minmatar Equilibria	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:37:00 - [82] I haven't played eve-online for more then 2 years and back then this was generally requested as well, albeit it was mostly requested by pirats and not by carebears. And to be honest requesting this as a carebear isn't the most thoughtfull of requests. -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Gikanzin Minmatar High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:42:00 - [83] Edited by: Gikanzin on 13/07/2007 11:42:40 Necroing a topic which has been discuss for the 1 millionth time is bad, M'kay? Also I'm wondering if this is a new tactic by pirates with alts to eliminate local, but I will agree with the op. Eliminate local! Less smack talk and chatting in local is getting over rated. Lets all be emo?
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:42:00 - [84] Originally by: FT Diomedes A load of crap... Stuff... Can I have it? Surely if you see someone enter local, it's simple enough to align for a station, then if they probe you out (remember there's about 0.0000001% chance of them finding you since the nerf), click warp! Simple! But no, mission runners have it so damn hard! Let's make it easier for them AGAIN... Hell, screw it, let's just make everywhere highsec except for 0.0, then we'll have a little message come up for combat saying 'Felysta Sandorn wants to attack you... Allow/Disallow'... This isn't WoW or Hello Kitty world! Stop trying to get out of every ounce of risk in the damn game! Latest Video, Click Here!
Lastdon	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:01:00 - [85] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=546078 Already made this post and of course just as many people crying about losing something that they use as a means to gather intell that is meant for chat. You all were so right lets make the game even more automated and not force people to actually play the game. Look at me I can run 3 accounts at the same time.... is it just me or is that saying something about the interaction of this game. God forbid you have to use a function to play the game.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:03:00 - [86] Some people want Local as a intel tool, others want rid of it for the self same reason; why not simply make it into part of the game mechanic? Have a Local System Scan on a sliding scale of range. You can either activate it to 'ping once' or 'always on' (no multi spamming your scanner). If another ship is within your set scan range that pilot is shown in local to you, and you are shown in local to him. Ships / pilots within 15 au of a station / outpost or docked are also displayed in local, until they leave the station and move out of range (meaning you can determine if is relatively safe to undock). The overall scan range might be ship class dependant (heck maybe some ships have better long range System Scanners than others). Local 'intel' is then a player choice. C. - sig designer - eve mail
Kiyano Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:30:00 - [87] I think you should at least keep local in empire. Just my idea.
The Judge FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:35:00 - [88] Or all the people whining could actually put some effort into finding a target and not try to make ccp do the work for them ? Remove local and carebears wouldn't even be able to mine or npc at all, since the risk of somebody jumping in on them any second would be too great. So you'd just end up with systems being even emptier than they are now. Remember local has accidently been removed once before and it was a complete disaster. I doubt this change will ever come into the game, so see no point for complaining about it. If you need to complain about something then at least do it about something worthwhile, such as boosting amarr.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:37:00 - [89] Originally by: Lucas Avidius Heres my take on the local thingamajiggy: it needs to be changed at least somehow. Ive got a few ideas, too. In high sec, local should remain as it is currently due to high concord presence and all that other roleplay razzmataz. In low sec, local should show the count of people in the system, but no ones identities unless theyre activly talking over it. In 0.0, local should display unknown at all times, and only show portraits if people are talking. Systems with soverignty could potentially upgrade to either the low sec or high sec local systems with POS modules. I don't understand why, in a world where all entry and exit of a system is done either with an established stargate system or easily detected jump drives, people think there would be any difficulty in RP terms in having local anywhere. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:38:00 - [90] I prefer to have local. But if they get rid I will adapt. Since everybody will be flying very little but force recons after such a nerf. I'll do that myself. Cheers.

Great Artista Caldari Purple Cloud	Posted - 2007.07.13 12:47:00 - [91] Originally by: Gaven Blands I prefer to have local. But if they get rid I will adapt. Since everybody will be flying very little but force recons after such a nerf. I'll do that myself. Cheers. Yeah, all other ship classes are now OBSOLETE, for anything but POS-assaults. _______ Great Artista Co-CEO My opinions are mine and they are the right ones. Bye.
CyberGh0st Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:03:00 - [92] Hmm it may be a good idea, it may not, but my motto is, if it is not broken, dont fix it ... There is more then enough stuff to do for CCP, honestly, this should be very low priority. Greetz CyberGh0st aka Cyberwiz aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Retired @ Bors DAoC / Atlantic UO / Sunstrider WoW / Valcyn SWG / Snowbourn LOTRO / Planetside / Entropia / Lineage / Guildwars
The Mantra Caldari Knights of Sovereignty United Corporations of Eve	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:12:00 - [93] Originally by: RuriHoshino Scouting would become a critical full-time occupation Yes, and that's why local has gotta stay.
Gner Dechast Gallente Flashman Services	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:18:00 - [94] I fully support local channel nerf ideas - anything will be better than what we now have. (Atlast get rig of them in 0.0)
Mjoelnir Thorwulf Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:20:00 - [95] I endorse this thread - please remove local. Or like proposed in numerous posts, from 0.0 at the very least. Local-Be-Gone movement fanclub member #786341234 My signature exceeds the maxium allowed coolness factor. -- Mjoelnir Thorwulf
Ruoska	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:23:00 - [96] While I might not agree on all little details, I would like to see local channel removed from all not sov-level 4 0.0 systems. I never understood why is there all-encompassing bulletinboard everywhere you go. Dystopian galaxy, no getting away from the "big brother"...
Kin Hanyerec Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:25:00 - [97] Originally by: The Mantra Originally by: RuriHoshino Scouting would become a critical full-time occupation Yes, and that's why local has gotta stay. you are so wrong, there will never be a "surprise" effect as long local shows everyone in system. Scouting a system takes less than 5mn, although those 5mn are often wasted time since you can't find a ship that "cloaks-as-soon-as-anyone-enters-local". Even if i have to scout every planet in every system to find a target, i prefer doing that and be able to get a fight than easely find targets through local channel but not be able to do anything to them...
Carl Whitewood	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:25:00 - [98] I agree with my corp mate above - locals should be removed
Jacques Bontecou	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:28:00 - [99] I consider myself full time scout, prober, surveilance player, and I can see the need for my services go up, so I have no choice but to fully endorse this thread Jacq
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:37:00 - [100] Originally by: Great Artista Yeah, all other ship classes are now OBSOLETE, for anything but POS-assaults. Except, you know, battleships and ECM boats to set up gatecamps. And inties/dictors to chase/catch people. Cruisers / BCs / HACs for recon support. Frigates for gatewatching, jumproute scouting, anti-support. Haulers for hauling things. Mining barges for mining things. Besides that, yes, all ships would become obsolete. We realise that this would drastically change the tactics for virtually every player who uses low-zero sec space. It would require real adaptation, not just saying "only one ship is any good now". Every ship class has many different counters. Even recons. _

DuckM4n Vo	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:44:00 - [101] leave local the freck alone!
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:50:00 - [102] Originally by: RuriHoshino Originally by: Great Artista Yeah, all other ship classes are now OBSOLETE, for anything but POS-assaults. Except, you know, battleships and ECM boats to set up gatecamps. And inties/dictors to chase/catch people. Cruisers / BCs / HACs for recon support. Frigates for gatewatching, jumproute scouting, anti-support. Haulers for hauling things. Mining barges for mining things. Besides that, yes, all ships would become obsolete. We realise that this would drastically change the tactics for virtually every player who uses low-zero sec space. It would require real adaptation, not just saying "only one ship is any good now". Every ship class has many different counters. Even recons. Good reply.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:56:00 - [103] I think they should introduce this for a week just to see how it pans out. Read responses etc. It sounds great idea atm but in practice, you never know. However if local was to be totally removed, ccp will need to invent a new scanning system. The scanning system is pretty poor atm. It just looks really old, like some old game would include. Even old school 90s submarine games had better scanners than this. I want to see flashing lights, and have a scanner that tells you what planet the ships are closest at. Also have heaps of options on how to scan and what to scan. We get heaps of options for our overview, make it like that but more, its a damn scanner in a futuristic game. Also add new skill books that make scanning better, maybe covert ship get a scanner bonus instead of their dmg bonuses, and maybe even stealth recon ships get bonuses to it etc. There are so many things you can do with a new scanner system. Local atm is so needed for so many things. Though it will be great to jump into a system and search for a rating ship to destroy. It really does suck that so many carebears just warp off to a deep safe or cloak or even log once someone else jumps into local. That really is the most annoying thing about it. Removing local will just make carebears contiously refresh scan on their scanner. Thats why if local goes then the scanner system needs to be replaced.
CyberGh0st Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.13 14:00:00 - [104] Edited by: CyberGh0st on 13/07/2007 14:01:14 I have the experience with MMORPG's that if you change to much, people will become allienated and leave the game. So always be cautious, even with seamingly simple changes. Expanding, deepen the game yes, like walking in stations and interacting with planets, that is expanding the current game. But not too much changes, you never know what gonna happen examples of mmorpg's gone bad : SWG ( duh, they changed the whole game ) DAoC ( mainly cause of ToA expansion, and buffbots ) UO ( a carebear mirror world anyone ? ) greetz CyberGh0st aka Cyberwiz aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Retired @ Bors DAoC / Atlantic UO / Sunstrider WoW / Valcyn SWG / Snowbourn LOTRO / Planetside / Entropia / Lineage / Guildwars
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.07.13 14:01:00 - [105] I think local should be changed in 2 ways: 1: To show people who speak in local for 30 Seconds. 2: To show people who are near a gate, a station, or anything that might have a sensor array (such as a ship, probe, or control tower), all linked into a local network. Your ship will hook into the sensor network and recieve information from any array which is bradcasting intel to the network. Gate and Stations broadcast to everyone, ships and starbases will broadcast to friendlies only. Scenarios of use: I hang around a gate uncloaked, everyone in local knows im somewhere in system, if I warp away I vanish. If I go to a belt and a hostile ship is there, his presence is shown to my friends, and my presence is shown to his. Once a scanprobe is deployed it will sweep its detection area continuously, if any ship enters its detection field then the probe will inform the deployer. So if a covops wants intel on several enemy pos' he can launch probes in many places to get a big picture. This is good for quick local intel for roving gangs, but provides no permanent facilities. Mobile Scanning Arrays could be a new deployable structure like warp bubbles which could be anchored at a belt when mining or ratting, miners would be alerted once a ship entered its detection area, this would give them a short time to escape or call for backup. Alliances wishing to have good levels of intel in home systems could deploy scanning arrays in belts and at planets to have a sensor network of their system. Of course this would provide new targets for small gangs to come in and disable before a big offence gang came in. An elite force disabling enemy sensors before the main attack would be seriously cool if you ask me. The hacking skill could be expanded from purely cosmos stuff to allow players to try and hack into enemy arrays. The array would have to have its shields knocked out for a hacker to get in close and maybe offline it for a short time, take partial control, or even create phantom local results. Imagine simulating a huge enemy blob appearing in a home system, hostiles hurredly form a large defence gang while your real attack force is at the other end of the constellation. Hows that for diversionary tactics? I think some sort of tangible local sensor network would be very cool, and there would be a large amount of tactical depth added to the game. ============================================
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.13 14:04:00 - [106] Originally by: N1fty I think local should be changed in 2 ways: 1: To show people who speak in local for 30 Seconds. 2: To show people who are near a gate, a station, or anything that might have a sensor array (such as a ship, probe, or control tower), all linked into a local network. Your ship will hook into the sensor network and recieve information from any array which is bradcasting intel to the network. Gate and Stations broadcast to everyone, ships and starbases will broadcast to friendlies only. Scenarios of use: I hang around a gate uncloaked, everyone in local knows im somewhere in system, if I warp away I vanish. If I go to a belt and a hostile ship is there, his presence is shown to my friends, and my presence is shown to his. Once a scanprobe is deployed it will sweep its detection area continuously, if any ship enters its detection field then the probe will inform the deployer. So if a covops wants intel on several enemy pos' he can launch probes in many places to get a big picture. This is good for quick local intel for roving gangs, but provides no permanent facilities. Mobile Scanning Arrays could be a new deployable structure like warp bubbles which could be anchored at a belt when mining or ratting, miners would be alerted once a ship entered its detection area, this would give them a short time to escape or call for backup. Alliances wishing to have good levels of intel in home systems could deploy scanning arrays in belts and at planets to have a sensor network of their system. Of course this would provide new targets for small gangs to come in and disable before a big offence gang came in. An elite force disabling enemy sensors before the main attack would be seriously cool if you ask me. The hacking skill could be expanded from purely cosmos stuff to allow players to try and hack into enemy arrays. The array would have to have its shields knocked out for a hacker to get in close and maybe offline it for a short time, take partial control, or even create phantom local results. Imagine simulating a huge enemy blob appearing in a home system, hostiles hurredly form a large defence gang while your real attack force is at the other end of the constellation. Hows that for diversionary tactics? I think some sort of tangible local sensor network would be very cool, and there would be a large amount of tactical depth added to the game. There are some great ideas here.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.13 14:13:00 - [107] Keep local, i dont really care, all i ask is for a delay after i jump in. A few days ago i saw a little yellow blip on the map 9 jumps away, a ratter i guessed so i headed over there with a friend, i was in an inty, he was in a myrmiddon for the DPS. I jumped into the target system and loaded, scanned, scanned again, found the belt within 15 degrees in just a few seconds as it was right in front of me, just a 250,000km warp and i got there in time to see the raven already warping... he then cloaked at a safespot before logging. Theres no way i could have found him faster, but you win some you lose some, the problem is this is becoming the norm, and farmers are becoming very very hard to catch, even for experienced inty pilots. Most of the time you cant find them that fast, it takes time to narrow down the direction, there might be a cluster of belts, the belts might be on the other side of the system... add to this cloaks and stabs and its getting ridiculous. There are slower/stupider farmers in other areas that i will have to try for but its ******** that it takes a tackler and a prober and a damage dealer before you can hunt ratters... but then again, if they get that cloak on or log before aggressed, they are invulnerable and they know it. The problem with jumping resetting aggro and allowing insta logging needs some attention too.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.13 14:17:00 - [108] Originally by: Depp Knight I think they should introduce this for a week just to see how it pans out. Read responses etc. It sounds great idea atm but in practice, you never know. However if local was to be totally removed, ccp will need to invent a new scanning system. The scanning system is pretty poor atm. It just looks really old, like some old game would include. Even old school 90s submarine games had better scanners than this. I want to see flashing lights, and have a scanner that tells you what planet the ships are closest at. Also have heaps of options on how to scan and what to scan. We get heaps of options for our overview, make it like that but more, its a damn scanner in a futuristic game. Also add new skill books that make scanning better, maybe covert ship get a scanner bonus instead of their dmg bonuses, and maybe even stealth recon ships get bonuses to it etc. There are so many things you can do with a new scanner system. Local atm is so needed for so many things. Though it will be great to jump into a system and search for a rating ship to destroy. It really does suck that so many carebears just warp off to a deep safe or cloak or even log once someone else jumps into local. That really is the most annoying thing about it. Removing local will just make carebears contiously refresh scan on their scanner. Thats why if local goes then the scanner system needs to be replaced. Local is the only channel that updates constantly by default You make some good points about the dodgy scanner, a new one would be nice. Maybe more than a week... i know for a fact that eve players HATE HATE HATE change, so 1 week would probably just see 1% of people trying to find dodgy exploits and 50% of ratters/miners/missioners hiding or just staying offline till it cools down
Jaden Haryl	Posted - 2007.07.13 14:18:00 - [109] Originally by: FT Diomedes Originally by: Jaden Haryl 4. Almost every space fiction depicts a scanner that ALWAYS active(Along with RL, you think a jet pilot has to hit "scan" to detect other planes near him?), that is you don't have to click scan, the trusty on board computer can handle the uber complex function of monitoring the scanner and alerting you to what it deems important. Perhaps you can take an active role to further refine its results? I'm not going to argue that the scanner could use some work. It really could be improved immensely. But you shouldn't compare Eve to RL. And if you do, get it straight. A modern jet pilot has to activate his radar to know what is out there - unless he uses his own radar, he can see it through his HUD or his system picks up another radar signal. And as soon as he uses his radar, he announces to the world that he is out there. If RL has no bearing on Eve's design then why is it set in "Space" with "Ships" with "People" flying them? Not that it's accurate but obviously the basic game play element's are derived from RL no? Second tell me again where I said a jet pilot has to use ACTIVE radar, you seem to confuse the always active PASSIVE systems that I was referring to with ACTIVE radar, who got it wrong again? Many forms of detection do not rely on your equipment emitting any kind of signal itself. By your own admission a pilot who turns on a ACTIVE system will most likely be alerting others with PASSIVE systems to his presense, and the alert will probably displayed AUTOMATICALLY. Cool huh, maybe Eve could implement this kind of nifty balance?
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.07.13 15:04:00 - [110] Things to consider when defending space... Situation now: option 1: You have "good space", aka limited amounts of entry routes, only one or max two "pipes" and choke points from where hostiles can enter you space. One scout at these "gate systems" can provide intel for the whole area. Option 2: Your area is scattered and you have multiple potentiel entry routes. You need one scout at each entry route, or one in each system, if situation is bad enough. Situation with no local: 1 You need one active hawk eyed scout at each gate of the entry systems 23/7. If he is afk for 5 minutes, you could miss a fleet of hundreds, and you will never now they are "in joor b453 pwning j00r n00b5" Great way to use your game time. 2. You need one guy per gate in every system. With an average region that is hundreds of ppl camping 23/7. Great gameplay. Good fun. Yea right. Attacking space with no local: You will never know if you are spotted entering a system, or if anyone is in the system. A cloaked scout at a gate can signal everyone to just bugger off, and you will never with any certainty know if the defenders are in the system, constellation or region. By abusing the friends list, you can determine, if any of them are online, but that is about it... All in all, removing local will kill pvp. Avoiding it will be redicilously easy, while finding anyone but the most clueless noobs will be extremely hard. In the end, it will only lead to more and more camping and blobbing, since it is the only way to find someone, even if then by accident. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats

Le Bon Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.13 15:07:00 - [111] Edited by: Le Bon on 13/07/2007 15:06:41 Removing local would A) directly benefit low sec (the most underpopulated part of eve. Would b) not bother empire would c) Destroy 0.0 completely. Errr, Dont be stupid removing local because a few carebears whine they cant Align/Scan whilst popping NPCs (And pirates who whine they cant improvise for kills). = Ninja Smack Alt
Jacques Danton Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.13 15:36:00 - [112] Edited by: Jacques Danton on 13/07/2007 15:42:33 I'm quite new to the game and frankly finding that the local chat channel is actually hardly a chat channel at all but instead a magical recon tool used by people I was hoping not to find in this game is disheartening to say the least. It's current use is what I view as an exploit - it is supposed to be a CHAT channel, not your everyday magical/universal/infallable system-wide radar, that not only notifies you immediately that somebody entered/left the system but also supplies you will full data on said person! Why bother with a CHAT channel if people so believe that it is "vital"? Why not just provide full list of the players in a system in the overview with a readily available right-click option to warp to them, wherever they are? This will make the game so much more PvP-friendly, no? What sort of logic is this here - gee, we might actually get attacked by surprise and we don't like that, what are recon ships for at all then? Why stealth - such things only "inhibit" PvP, isn't it? Make everyone obvious and visible for everybody and the "problem" will be "solved" immediately... I find it pretty much stupid that people defend that continued use of this channel for recon - it should be changed so that it is actually a CHAT channel - i.e. a tool allowing people to communicate if they want to, but should DEFINITELY not provide information beyond the name (as text only) of the person you communicate to, it should NOT inform you who entered or quit the system in any way and unless the other side has specifically agreed to it - any background information on them. Both people that use it to prey on others and people that use it as not to be preyed upon should rely on "normal" game mechanics to recon an area - if the game is substantially lacking then scanning is to be improved or enhanced, but the local CHAT channel should be changed to be just that - a CHAT channel. I want to be able to quit that channel if I so desire and I want that this channel does NOT show a complete list of all people in it too - at all! Why is this list there in the first place? And no - I'm nobody's alt, etc, etc. If people wanted an easy game that magically solved all of their problems and introduced no realism-related difficulties whatsoever then why not play WoW - it's made for 12-year olds and there's hardly any penalty for screwing up there, isn't it? Gee - I might get killed in 0.0... Well, if you don't want to risk your hide, don't go there - I don't for the time being. I didn't join EVE for that sort of "magic" "solutions". If I don't want to be found in a system I don't want the "magic" local chat to inform EVERYBODY that I arrived and who I am and what ship I'm in - the way it is at the moment I find it idiotic, this aspect of the channel is hardly there for chatting, the information provided is beyond what is needed to chat or ask questions, or provide answers. Strip the local CHAT channel of all the recon info provision and leave it there for people that want to chat!
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.13 15:40:00 - [113] Edited by: RuriHoshino on 13/07/2007 15:39:54 Originally by: Le Bon Edited by: Le Bon on 13/07/2007 15:06:41 Removing local without introducing a new scanning system to compensate would A) directly benefit low sec (the most underpopulated part of eve. Would b) not bother empire would c) Destroy 0.0 completely. Fixed it for you. In case you hadn't noticed, people here aren't just whining "kill local it's h4x!" Many good ideas and solutions are also being put forth. It's called being constructive. _
Bloodangle Minmatar Bastage Incorporated 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.07.13 15:51:00 - [114] Originally by: Ephemeron Removal of local would be even easier if Overview scan range was extended to 15 AU just like manual scanner. Overview would show ships that are offgrid but display no more information than a regular scanner does. It would be enough to be alerted of new ships in 15 AU range to make local nerf not so bad. That is a really good idea. If local is removed they definitely need to buff scanning with things like this. Maybe even proximity probes so you could setup some form of early warning if you are planning on carebearing in a system. I also like the idea of keeping local for those that chat as well as displaying in local automatically any friendlies. Thus if you are an enemy or neutral to others in local they would only see you if you choose to talk.
Dr Demento FinFleet	Posted - 2007.07.13 16:01:00 - [115] Edited by: Dr Demento on 13/07/2007 16:03:34 Edited by: Dr Demento on 13/07/2007 16:01:57 nm just wanted to say that there are some great ideas in n1fty' post
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 16:11:00 - [116] Local could not go without some serious changes to the way unmanned ships are displayed in space. Commander "Scout, update of XYZ-AB" Scout "System scan shows 40 battleships, 20 Mackinaws, an Archon and numerous towers" Commander "Ok then, we either have a huge hostile force waiting for us, or a macro mining ring" Fast forward 5 minutes of scanning Scout "All ships are unmanned at various POSs, you can jump the frieghters and battleship escorts in, moving to next system" Commander "No point, while we were sitting here waiting for you to confirm, we just got jumped by 3 KIA Ibis, all ships lost, return to base" Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Bloodangle Minmatar Bastage Incorporated 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.07.13 16:19:00 - [117] Originally by: Necronomicon Local could not go without some serious changes to the way unmanned ships are displayed in space. Commander "Scout, update of XYZ-AB" Scout "System scan shows 40 battleships, 20 Mackinaws, an Archon and numerous towers" Commander "Ok then, we either have a huge hostile force waiting for us, or a macro mining ring" Fast forward 5 minutes of scanning Scout "All ships are unmanned at various POSs, you can jump the frieghters and battleship escorts in, moving to next system" Commander "No point, while we were sitting here waiting for you to confirm, we just got jumped by 3 KIA Ibis, all ships lost, return to base" Good point, should indicate if there are any life signs onboard as well. BTW, carebears are alive, right?
Chereadenine Zakalwe VENOM72 Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 16:26:00 - [118] Hmnn..the idea of going about my business in 0.0 with no idea what hostiles are in bound or local..nahh..not fun.. Intel is good and well,but as a few people have pointed out....who the hell wants to be scanning the system every 30 seconds,cos thats what will be needed to stop any decent pirate dropping on top of you. The nerf local thing will only help aggressors,they would be happy enough to skip systems scanning for targets,but anyone else would be screwed. Who can honestly say they would take alliance sentry duty and sit in system for hours on end scanning for possible hostiles?? Didnt think so... Fancy a change of scenery?
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.07.13 16:31:00 - [119] Local should be replaced by consta You should not be able to talk in consta to prevent turbo spam etc All ships will have to be put into a shipmaintance array or disappear after downtime to make scanning easier. Cloaking on non coverts will have to be nerfed All the carebears whining consta will have benfits for you! You will be able to see the ememy up to 5 jumps away from this point and only this point would u need to scan etc. If you the only person in a consta the enemy may not bother just searching for 1 etc. As ccp once said local was not designed for intel it was designed for chat! snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Ddredar	Posted - 2007.07.13 17:39:00 - [120] Originally by: Turin Local and cloaks are fine. Leave them alone. IMO anyways. Anyonw who has a differant opinion, well, I think their opinion sucks. :) This one is perfect for you Linkage Quote: GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL BABY!!!

Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2007.07.13 17:42:00 - [121] Local is perfectly fine because it is a two way street. Pirates can see you and find out all about you. You can also (From the station I might add) find out all the information on who is a pirate and who is not before you decide to do mission. You can then decide if its not worth the risk, to move to another system and run missions. I dont care about cloaked ships. If you wanna screen them out of local...what the hell why not. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Exortius Amarrus The Clearwater Society Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.13 17:46:00 - [122] Originally by: Nachshon I have a better idea - make local optional. It equalizes the playing field somewhat. You can avoid being seen by others... at the cost of not being able to see them. Turning off local would make sense if you are a mission runner, or if you are being hunted by a gang - until, that is, they drive you into a trap. Like active/passive sonar? I like.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2007.07.13 17:50:00 - [123] No, if you make it optional, then screwing with macrominer fun would cease! _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Reileen Kawahara	Posted - 2007.07.13 18:09:00 - [124] Away with local!
Zak Kingsman A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.07.13 19:37:00 - [125] Edited by: Zak Kingsman on 13/07/2007 19:37:50 I like the idea of no local unless you break radio silence. I also like the idea of a passive sensor on your ship so that if you get actively scanned you know it. In the scanning system allow for a FoF squak so you can immediately determine if the person is blue or not (will never differentiate between nuetral or hostile, just not friendly or friendly which is just as good in 0.0 as almost everyone is NBSI). Add a Pos module that allows for strong long range scans that report to local ships if it gets a hit. Possibly link the range of this information with sov level, the longer you've been in a system the more refined you can get your information gathering tool. Short range deployables would be a nice addition to interdictor launchers, pop them up on various areas in the system and anyone in your gang gets the intel it sees, would last longer than interdictor bubbles and allow you to put down intel gathering devices at all gates to watch your backside... now you just gotta worry about what may or may not be in the system already.
Andraea Sarstae	Posted - 2007.07.14 05:23:00 - [126] Originally by: Matthew Cooper Edited by: Matthew Cooper on 13/07/2007 05:44:11 Originally by: Andraea Sarstae Wonder why they never did anything with this. Originally by: Oveur Just to clarify some things, these are ideas, not something that is scheduled for implementation. Right, I get that... but I wonder why the ideas never went anywhere... i.e. have they just not gotten around to it yet? Did they come to conclusion that it shouldn't change?
Andraea Sarstae	Posted - 2007.07.14 05:26:00 - [127] Originally by: Hubert Bonmarchais Players voted NO to the "Remove local ?" poll 3 years ago. We have to deal with it. Democracy ftw. Democracy is a horrible approach to game design.
Jaikar Isillia The Vinlanders Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.14 05:56:00 - [128] Originally by: Andraea Sarstae Originally by: Hubert Bonmarchais Players voted NO to the "Remove local ?" poll 3 years ago. We have to deal with it. Democracy ftw. Democracy is a horrible approach to game design. Democracy is a horrible approach to life in general. I will make all the decisions for you and you shall be happy.
Vizranuh	Posted - 2007.07.14 05:56:00 - [129] I also support the removal of Local. --
Vodun	Posted - 2007.07.14 05:57:00 - [130] I would like to see local removed as well.

El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.14 08:29:00 - [131] Removal of local would have a detrimental effect on the subscription and server populations. Within the first 3 months of removing it you'd lose between a quarter to one half of current subscriptions I think. It would then decline more until it flattened off around a 60 - 70 % loss.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.14 09:00:00 - [132] Originally by: El'Niaga Removal of local would have a detrimental effect on the subscription and server populations. Within the first 3 months of removing it you'd lose between a quarter to one half of current subscriptions I think. It would then decline more until it flattened off around a 60 - 70 % loss. How come so many people against local nerf are noob corp alts? Remove local in 0.0, not empire. 80% of players live in empire. Local nerf would not effect all the empire huggers in any way. Of the people that do live in 0.0, maybe 25% will leave - worst case scenario. That's just 5% of the total player base - and it probably won't be that bad. I know for certain that local nerf is going to hit chinese isk farmers in 0.0 worse than real players. Which is very good.
Lavinrac Krad Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.14 10:14:00 - [133] Edited by: Lavinrac Krad on 14/07/2007 10:16:32 I support getting rid of local, getting rid of the Map Statistic people in system the last 30 minutes and jumps in system the last hour (not sure about the time on jumps one, but I'm sure keeping track of Jita jumps alone causes a hell of a lot of lag). I'm not in an alliance nor a 0.0 person, so I care less about the cryno (think that is how it is spelled, like I said, I'm not a 0.0 person) field thingy one... BTW- Within a month after this nerf, the new n00bs would never know about the local nerf and would replace the people who left because of it Why donÆt you show us on the dolly where the bad miner touched you. -Thesas THE NERF BAT COMETH! REPENT SINNER!
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.14 12:57:00 - [134] Originally by: El'Niaga Removal of local would have a detrimental effect on the subscription and server populations. Within the first 3 months of removing it you'd lose between a quarter to one half of current subscriptions I think. It would then decline more until it flattened off around a 60 - 70 % loss. 1/4 to 1/2 of subscriptions lost? Are you kidding? 1/4 to 1/2 of people wouldn't even notice it was gone.
Mjoelnir Thorwulf Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.14 13:01:00 - [135] Edited by: Mjoelnir Thorwulf on 14/07/2007 13:03:01 There's been a variety of ideas, good ones as well, especially about automatic passive scanning of limited range (15au is being mentioned, but this could also be a factor of sig radius). I'm wondering if it would be possible to have a corner of space, at first without passive scanners or anything, stripped of the local. Just to see who would stay away and who would go in there. I doubt anyone would want to have that experiment on their turf, which might require a new small region, even temporary (which CCP might to be too thrilled about adding, reading a few threads revolving around new regions). If Eve had shards, it might be easier to try out, for a set time - now it may be too much of a hassle to try out in TQ, and nobody really plays in test server, so getting the "feel" there isn't gonna work for players, IMO. There's been two involuntary experiments on this in TQ already. First one was bad programming in one of the patches, which allowed you to simply close local via the channels dialog and the other was some sort of a problem with the IRC-whatever services that run even chats when everyone's local was busted. Former was used quite some time, both by raiding and defending/NPC'ing people, both in 0.0 and in lowsec, until deeped publicly as an exploit (after high pitched whinage). Second test was much sorter, just couple of hours, if I recall correctly. During this time most people dropped what they had and went out roaming, and some who I knew decided not to undock at all until it was fixed. Shows what kind of people I know, but also that changing the way local now is will not have one simple effect one way or the other - and to claim so is just stupid and childish. I really think limited but longer running experiment would be revealing, much more so than people on both side of the fence speculating from their subjective and biased points of views. My signature exceeds the maxium allowed coolness factor. -- Mjoelnir Thorwulf
whahein Minmatar Bipolar Barnstorming	Posted - 2007.07.14 13:06:00 - [136] Edited by: whahein on 14/07/2007 13:06:51 Originally by: Ephemeron How come so many people against local nerf are noob corp alts? How come 80% of all post on those forums are made by noob corp alts? You know as well as anyone how most aliance feel towards members displaying different opinions publicly, so a lot of noobcorp alts can and will be fronts for more experienced players. And please stop the stupid misuse of outdated dev post as rationalisations, we dont know wry CCP never acted on the initial plans pehaps it was democracy or phaps they just realised the problems of replacing something that works in a balanced way, function as a social channel with something overly complex that does not have the same potential for player interaction. I note that all the replacements being proposed are pure ship type tactical, while local adds the posibility of knowing the oponent from previus engagements, i.e. adds a deaper level of strategic info. and EvE is not counterstrike in space it's a higly strategic roleplaying game with Pew Pew added.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.14 13:48:00 - [137] Just while we are on the topic. Be kinda cool and interesting if you have say a large bounty on your head and if you warp into a .5 plus sec system, a warning msg gets said in local that a rumoured dangerous pilot has entered system. Actually a great idea came to my mind. What if you can bribe condor in low sec to hide you in local? Actually yeah thats kinda cool. You pay them a set price per hr to hide you in local. Catch is if a pirate comes they too can bribe concord to hide themselves in local and even say double the isk to release information in local. Actually I honestly think thats kinda a cool idea. Make out some concord pilots in deeper space are corrupt. Say for eg it cost you 100k to bribe concored for that region plus 50k every low sec system you jump into every hour to hide yourself in local. A pirate does the same but for him to ask condord to release information it will cost him that plus double the amount of each person who has bribed condor. So say 20 ppl pass through xyz system but 7 of them bribed concored. A pirate bribes condored to release information, he has to pay 100k to hide himself for that region, 50k to hide himself in that system plus 100k for each person who has bribed concored for that our. Costing that pirate 850k to use local. However there might be only 2 people still in that system in local, maybe none. Would this add lag? Probably but hey, just an idea. Also the price to bribe concored can easily be debated.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.14 14:42:00 - [138] - would this add lag should never be a question when discussing additions to the game especially since pretty much everything causes lag ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Vizranuh	Posted - 2007.07.15 04:59:00 - [139] Originally by: El'Niaga Removal of local would have a detrimental effect on the subscription and server populations. Within the first 3 months of removing it you'd lose between a quarter to one half of current subscriptions I think. It would then decline more until it flattened off around a 60 - 70 % loss. Are you mental? What hat do you pull these arbitrary numbers from? --
Stellar Vix State War Academy	Posted - 2007.07.15 08:42:00 - [140] I play eve to get away from work not do work again... watching a gate is like watching buildings 99% of the time nothing happens, watch long hours and ultimately not making any isk at all... :( This also always give the hostile force the advantage at any and all times because now your wasting anywhere from 20-30 people just for intel in a single constellation, 20-30 people that can help fight back. Unless there is some good alternative I hate to say it but local has to stay because its bad enough i got 80 hour work week, dont need more work here either. ========= 400x120 13kbs... SWA Qualified Instructor and Mascot or sorts Ensign Stellar Vix

Jenai'na	Posted - 2007.07.15 11:24:00 - [141] Originally by: RuriHoshino Originally by: goatplasma First fact of EVE: EVE does not represent real life Seriously, what on earth happened to Newtons laws of motion in EVE? They went out of almost every space game ever made when it became clear that people would have to spend 99% of their time just navigating. I agree that EVE != real life, but it is clearly based on certain real life principles. If they didn't want us to feel a certain connection with IRL warfare, they could have called frigates "gumsticks" or something equally weird. Some things translate well to video games, and some don't. Local as it exists is something that makes no sense in game or out. sticking with your logic and assumeing stargates to be some sort of border check point, it would make perfect sense that a stargate would register your age, ship type, name and affiliation when you jump through. it would also make perfect sense that this would be transmitted in a solar system wide broadcast. i dont care either way local, no local, i m sure i would adapt but starting RL comparisons is silly and pointless.
General Apocalypse Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.07.15 11:51:00 - [142] Adapt don't whine like a sisi . If 90% of the EVE players woud do that you woudn't see so many stupid posts Thank You SkyFlyer
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.07.15 11:56:00 - [143] /signed for removal of local from 0.0 Or at the least.. the removal of automagic local updating with players rather then becoming visible when you say something ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.07.15 12:02:00 - [144] Originally by: Dietes Marcellus Don't get rid of it, just make it so you can't see who is in it unless they say something. That way carebares can still ***** and complain when they get scanned out and killed anyways. I fully support this idea. CCP, are you guys watching this thread?
Don't Panic Rest home for Tired Seadogs	Posted - 2007.07.15 12:19:00 - [145] Originally by: FT Diomedes Originally by: Dr Shameless keep local with total number of people in, but dont show their names until they have spoken themselves. Maybe give some functionality to onboard directional scanner so when it finds people it uncovers their names in local list. This defeats the point of being able to hide. I want someone to have to work to figure out if there is ANYONE in the system, not just to know exactly who is there. EVE is already a very very very time-consuming and repetitive "game". Do not add more meaningless, repetitive tasks you have to do just to survive. I do NOT want to WORK to find out if there's anybody in the system. It's a game, not a freaking job. Removing local would alienate a large portion of non-hardcore gamers, and CCP need the non-hardcore gamers to make money.
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc	Posted - 2007.07.15 12:41:00 - [146] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 15/07/2007 12:42:44 Removing local will stop important communication. With local I found lots of people in 0.0 or low-sec sharing my attitude and getting together against piracy or 0.0 PvPers. Without local this process it getting too time consuming. EVE is still a game for people with much spare time. Local is a feature to add more dynamics to the player communication. For me local is totally important when I run missions. I am aware of the numbers and gangs of pirates. Without local I would not feel comfortable to run a mish. This makes mission run more critical and unsafe. A removed local is a great advantage for pirates and you need to spend more time in running to bookmarks even when the system is empty. I deal with local and adapt and use tactics for safer mission run. When probe pirates warp in they get de-cloaked by my cans or I say "You are dismissed!" in 100km distance still killing some NPC. So what. Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.15 12:49:00 - [147] Edited by: Ephemeron on 15/07/2007 12:50:58 If you feel safe and secure in a low security system because of local, then that's proof that local is breaking intended game design. You are not supposed to be safe and secure in low security system! Not unless you try activity scan for people, or use friends, or do whatever you need to do rather than sit back and keep an eye on chat window to insure your security. Another proof that local chat design is broken for low sec systems is that Chinese isk farmers have flooded many 0.0 regions to make their isk for sale. If a mindless farmer can be safe in 0.0 because of local, something's gotta be wrong with the system
Victor Ivanov Minmatar Liberty Rogues Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 13:08:00 - [148] The local is the inferior race! In fact, I shall rename all my ships to be insulting to the local to let it know that I won't have any of it around! Unite, my brothers and sisters, against our common enemy: The Local. ----------------------
Psorion Absolute Wrath Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.15 13:31:00 - [149] Sorry, I like having local. When RA-Goons come to jump into my system with their roaming blob I like the fact that my stargate publishes the new jumpins. This gives me a chance to defend my space. I still have to risk losing my ship, just as the invaders have to risk our Home defense gang sending them home. The point of local is local broadcast. It really helps both sides but of course some people want an I-win advantage. The same ones saying they want local gone would be the same ones crying that they got ganked without warning. FFS, even if u see someone in local, chances are they are safe spotted, cloaked, or docked/POS sitting. You still have to find that person, and evading a 'non-scanprobe' ship isnt that hard. Local is fine Cloaking is fine That is all Cloaked and AFK at a system near you...
Gibbal Slogspit Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.07.15 13:37:00 - [150] Remove Local in 0.0

Jacques Danton Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.15 13:51:00 - [151] I really "like" all the lazy-ass give-it-to-me-easy-crowd people who now try to defend the local CHAT channel as "realistic" public jumpgates broadcast system-wide network to let everybody know for no apparent reason the people entering a system... bull***, while on the other hand one can read that the game is not supposed to be realistic (yeah, right, there is nothing realistic in EVE as it is...) and thus the exploit should stay in... because it suits them, yes, that's right - the exploit suits their* style thus whether it's an exploit, that it doesn't make any sense and that it breaks immersion is absolutely non-important. And then you have the end-of-the-world people stating that the changing or elimination of local will spell the doom of EVE... Frankly - too many people picked up the wrong game - go play WoW, it's made for people that want it easy! If people cannot see that a CHAT channel has grown to be a recon tool beyond what the game itself offers and that this is simply broken then EVE is definitely not the game for you. Such people want all the benefits of 0.0 but none of the risks and seemingly cry every single time one wants to take their toy away... because pirates are simply NOT supposed to be able to harm you, right? Because there shouldn't be such a thing as a surprise attack - I guess people should send you a written statement to warn you when they'll attack you as a compulsory prerequisite... Why not simply implement a game feature that automatically warps you out if a pirate warps in, so you can AFK mine and make your life even easier for example? I guess the people that want local to remain as a magic recon tool are the ones that want the auto-queuing system for skill progression too, it's too hard and demanding as it is at the moment, eh? People used to exploits will NEVER agree to their removal and seemingly will always come up with the most ridiculous excuses as to why the exploits should stay in as to suit themselves...
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.15 14:03:00 - [152] Originally by: Psorion Sorry, I like having local. When RA-Goons come to jump into my system with their roaming blob I like the fact that my stargate publishes the new jumpins. This gives me a chance to defend my space. I still have to risk losing my ship, just as the invaders have to risk our Home defense gang sending them home. The point of local is local broadcast. It really helps both sides but of course some people want an I-win advantage. The same ones saying they want local gone would be the same ones crying that they got ganked without warning. FFS, even if u see someone in local, chances are they are safe spotted, cloaked, or docked/POS sitting. You still have to find that person, and evading a 'non-scanprobe' ship isnt that hard. Local is fine Cloaking is fine That is all classic case of not reading - alliances can still have local if they wish ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Tradari Gallente Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.07.15 14:25:00 - [153] Im in favor of losing local but again i smi agree with keeping it. Let me explain.... Remove local prevents pirates and war partys instantly knowing who is in that system and stops them hanging around to find you, on the other hand as a previous post had said scan scan scan just to make sure your hulk is safe mining. well how about reduce local to constaltion this was it covers 4-5 systems instead, this would make people still safe in mining teams in 0.0 etc and allow the watch for war gangs entering the system but prevent the pirates knowing which system the targets are in and force them to scan more to find you. the other advantage would prevent the cloaking ravens that seem to be spreeding across 0.0 isk farming as they would never know that you were in the system or the constaliation and in theory would reduce the ammount of space they could safe isk farm without another player in the same constaltion. Yours Tradari
Mystic Pete	Posted - 2007.07.15 14:41:00 - [154] Local bad. I agree with the OP Why do so many of you ***** about what seems so simple. Eve is about space that vast emptyness where you should be able to hide. If there's not local things will be better. You can quote me on that. Let's see if I can cover some quick points. 1. 'I want to talk to my friends when there in local' Set up a channel for you and your friends. You can do this now it's probably a better option and therefore has no relevance in the loacal debate. 2. 'I don't want to have to use my scanner constantly' I imagine you use your scanner semi regularly when other people are in system? True to see as soon as possible when someone / a probe is in system / nearby you would have to scan more, or just keep your eyes open / fly in squads. 3. 'It would take ages for us pirates to track people down' Good. IF you want to fly around space looking for random targets it should take you a while. Although this doesn't stop you setting up interdiction spheres on warp lanes where people can't see you in local. 4. 'I can't rat in low sec because it's not safe' It shouldn't be safe. Mission running is a way to make ISK. If you want risk free money making your playing the wrong game. BTW removing local would technically make you more cloaked than the present without a cloaking device so consider it a safety boost. 5. Recon / Covert ops. These ship will have a real value without local. They will be the ship used to scan areas out or to make people paranoid. Personally I like the paranoia of space the simply not knowing what's out there adds for great tension. To finish off, remember that scene in The Empire Strikes Back where the Millenium Falcon is tryin to run the Empire blockade and clings to the bottom of a Star Destroyer so as not to be seen. Remember the conversation on the bridge? Admiral 'Sir they could be anywhere by now' Vader 'No, Admiral I see them in local'
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.07.15 14:52:00 - [155] I couldnt imagine 00 without local. I know the op cant, cause he's never been there, but I think it'd be a bad ting. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.07.15 15:07:00 - [156] Benefits of removing auto-updating local at least in lowsec/0.0 You dont know who else is in the system Carebears & Miners may be safer as pirates pass through system rather then bothering to scan for possible ships that they have no idea they are there. Pirates can successfully hunt w/o prior warning to targets No more forum whines about afk cloakers More chances of ganking 0.0 farmers since they wont know you are comming. CovOps and recon pilots actually have a scouting job to do now. They can move freely as their cloak was designed to let them do. Cons You don't know who else is in the system Carebears and miners don't know when to warp till someone is on top of them or they scan and see someone. Pirates could easily pass you by if they don't have scan probes or are to lazy to bother looking for someone. Fleets could arrive anytime of you dont have covops and recons scouting. Less reaction time to form a counter-blob. *more risk and possibly less lag as only 1 fleet is around rather then 2. As you can see.. there is no clear winner... Each argument has its valid points yet each argument can be countered.. or as everyone likes to say.. balanced. In some instances the attacker is in favor as they can pick when to engage (true with all attackers) In other instances the defender/carebear is in favor as most pirates are too lazy to scan or don't want to be bothered when they can sit at a gate and gank easier targets then scanning out a ship that may not even be there. As it is.. local is gimping all covops/recon pilots from doing their job and helping to prevent PvP as ppl just dock/SS. It stops pirates and PvPers from being able to find targets that don't pay attention. It hurts carebears by advertising their presence in the system to any pirate that passes through. It hurts a gangs ability to do hit and run attacks into enemy space because they can be automagicly tracked wherever they go. Local has GOT to be removed or set so your presence isn't advertised unless you say something (like all the other channels in this game).. at least in 0.0.. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.07.15 15:09:00 - [157] How about a compromise. Removing local at this point of the game would be a major change. How about this. The number of people in local still shows up. But Unless you speak in local chat your name does not show up. So you jump into a system with 10 people you get 10 unknowns. Exceptions would be. All alliance and corp members will still show up with full names. Just a thought.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.07.15 15:10:00 - [158] Oh.. and a damn Dev response would be nice also... CCP you KNOW this is a damn hot topic but your remaining 100% silent on the issue. What happened to that Dev/Player interaction you keep harping about? ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.15 15:16:00 - [159] like all politicians, CCP want to stay clear of hot issues
Zalathar Minmatar Biometaloid INC	Posted - 2007.07.15 15:22:00 - [160] CCP won't, and should not do it, as they are trying to attract people to 0.0, and not scare them away completely. This would also vastly nerf both big and small alliances, as the small ones would lack the manpower to camp all their gates, and the big ones wont have the manpower to control all their territory to the extent required by a no local 0.0. As for the logic of local, well the gate can easily broadcast all who pass, and scrambling the signal would not be an option. ~~~~~~ mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!" ~~~~~~ eeeeeekk - Deckard eeeeee...K -Darth Patches gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge you soo pretty I think you're stunningly handsome and let me just say that you're wearing that dead parrot on your shoulder in a particularly dashing way today. -Hango Your using up all the space hango! - Timmeh

Karlemgne The Malevolent	Posted - 2007.07.15 16:13:00 - [161] /signed And I am a pirate, and I agree that this change should be made. -Karl
Karlemgne The Malevolent	Posted - 2007.07.15 16:18:00 - [162] Let me amend. Change local to should be as follows: Either: 1. Convert local into Constellation chat 2. Make local like alliance chat, people only show up if they speak -Karl
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.15 16:37:00 - [163] god, so much whining; no offense op but eve has alot worse problems then having a local channel that functions like it does atm. Tis a shame if you got killed running missions but really ccp have made it pretty safe for you if u you pay attention.
Zalathar Minmatar Biometaloid INC	Posted - 2007.07.15 16:39:00 - [164] Originally by: Karlemgne Let me amend. Change local to should be as follows: Either: 1. Convert local into Constellation chat 2. Make local like alliance chat, people only show up if they speak -Karl constellation chat is an interesting idea. ~~~~~~ mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!" ~~~~~~ eeeeeekk - Deckard eeeeee...K -Darth Patches gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge you soo pretty I think you're stunningly handsome and let me just say that you're wearing that dead parrot on your shoulder in a particularly dashing way today. -Hango Your using up all the space hango! - Timmeh
Stellar Vix State War Academy	Posted - 2007.07.15 17:09:00 - [165] This is the future where everything can get tracked and navigation computers are always talking and giving hand shakes with stargates and the stuff without it you woulndt properly be able to go back into reality with it. So its sorta natural the star gate to say 'welcome' to system x. But if you guys really want to remove local then i purpose that you have to remove ship movement and ship destruction on the star map as well because the thats the next in line of complaints. But for now I'll settle removal of members on the local chat, and just keep the number count so you can jump in system see 19 ships and you have to ask yourself are there really 19 friendlies or 19 enemies in system? ========= 400x120 13kbs... SWA Qualified Instructor and Mascot or sorts Ensign Stellar Vix
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 18:06:00 - [166] Like many have said, remove local and force the constellation window! -- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
Vizranuh	Posted - 2007.07.15 18:33:00 - [167] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Like many have said, remove local and force the constellation window! Yes please. Forcing the constellation window instead of local would be teh sex. --
Leviathani Darkri Fatalix Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.15 18:49:00 - [168] My idea from one of the many other threads on this: Gate moniter probe...limited duration, would give a real time update of gate activations within it's range. Perhaps a 1 au range (possible to cover multiple gates if close), and would give standard overview information such as shiptype, shipname, pilot, etc...Would say that the pilot jumped out or in. lvl 1 skill allows anyone to launch one in nuetral or npc space, the higher the level of sovereignty the higher the skill needed to deploy. Perhaps with the highest level of sovereignty it would be impossible for anyone but the controlling alliance to deploy one. In alliance space, the info would broadcast to all alliance members and perhaps allowed blues. You could also perhaps put a limit on the number you can have active at any one time...say two or perhaps three, because of the cpu needed to analyze the realtime info. Kinda like an advanced motion detector...
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.15 18:56:00 - [169] Originally by: Leviathani Darkri My idea from one of the many other threads on this: Gate moniter probe...limited duration, would give a real time update of gate activations within it's range. Perhaps a 1 au range (possible to cover multiple gates if close), and would give standard overview information such as shiptype, shipname, pilot, etc...Would say that the pilot jumped out or in. lvl 1 skill allows anyone to launch one in nuetral or npc space, the higher the level of sovereignty the higher the skill needed to deploy. Perhaps with the highest level of sovereignty it would be impossible for anyone but the controlling alliance to deploy one. In alliance space, the info would broadcast to all alliance members and perhaps allowed blues. You could also perhaps put a limit on the number you can have active at any one time...say two or perhaps three, because of the cpu needed to analyze the realtime info. Kinda like an advanced motion detector... Why would ccp wanna go through all this trouble when it would be easier to just keep local; and tbf i have not heard any decent arguments why it should be removed other then carebears not liking people knowing they are there
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.15 18:59:00 - [170] There is no reason local should be nerfed. I do however believe that logoffski & cloaking should be fix so people cant hid from you one they see you in local, which i believe is a better approach becuase it gives the random gankers what they want (easy kills), and lets alliances (large & small) survive without grinding thier covops into the ground. Also if you actually read the backstory it explains how the channels work. Your ship is connected to concord-controlled router (cspa charge anyone?), which give you access to all of your chat channels & mail, but also gives concord information on you (you can obtain this info from concord through locater agents), and since concord control the gates (because they had to open up the gates to let us into the new regions right?) they also control the local chat. If you removed local you would have to remove your communication device (communications cannot be intercepted or jammed due to the nature of this device) which would mean that you wouldnt be able to speak in any channel, or form a gang. And wouldnt be able to pass through gates because the communication device is required for gate access (this is why your npc 'pirates' cannot pass through concord stargates, and have to build thier own. . Do not read this thread!!!

Greup	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:57:00 - [171] Edited by: Greup on 15/07/2007 21:59:10 Edited by: Greup on 15/07/2007 21:57:55 Personally i think local is a bad idea since its a chatchannel turned intel-device. So I agree with OP.
Kage Psychodin Caldari The Empire Nation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.16 04:00:00 - [172] I have not seen anything bad about the way local works in any part of space, lowsec or 0.0. Keep it the way it is. Another one bites the dust.
Moridin920 Gallente Dust Echoes FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 06:15:00 - [173] Edited by: Moridin920 on 16/07/2007 06:21:52 Edited by: Moridin920 on 16/07/2007 06:18:06 Originally by: Kage Psychodin I have not seen anything bad about the way local works in any part of space, lowsec or 0.0. Keep it the way it is. If its not broken, don't fix it. As for everyone who complains they can't get their missions done in peace, perhaps they should have read the little warning box that pops up when you go into low sec for the first time a little more carefully. The tiny (if they even exist) issues with local existing would transform into numerous monstrous problems with its removal. If you are so concerned with the local = intelligence problem, rename your **** ships. It's ridiculous to see the number of people that don't and then complain I know everything about them. If I see an Abaddon on a scan, that means nothing. Out of the 10 people in local, it could be any one of them. Docked, flying something else, whatever. When it says XXX's Abaddon, however, then I know who you are. I don't even need local at that point, I just need the character search feature. Frankly all that local provides that constantly spamming the scanner can't is knowing how many people of one faction/corp/what have you/alliance are in the system because you can see who is there even if they are docked. And any arguments that rely on a real world example (such as it being unrealistic to have a local channel that logs everyone in the system because a scanner couldn't do that) are just stupid, frankly, because thats probably the most minor in a number of glaring physics issues that just have to be ignored for the sake of having a game in the first place. Otherwise, you'd have people fitting a MWD, clicking as near as they can to the star labeled Jita, coming back 20-30 years later and a significant amount of $15 payments later, to see if they made it there yet. Remove local, and you'll get such a sharp increase in gate camps that most people won't even be able to enter low sec or 0.0 without numerous NAPs or similar. Also, since they seem so underrepresented in these threads full of anti-pirates screaming it'd reduce the number of pirates, I'd just like to ask why you think CCP agrees with you that piracy needs to be reduced? That's just as logical as a pirate thinking CCP wants the number of carebears to be reduced. It's a little pretentious and egocentric to think your way of playing is the best and therefore all other ways should be as crippled and difficult as possible. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience our piracy may have caused you, but, we are pirates and, sadly, this is our way."
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:30:00 - [174] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg I couldnt imagine 00 without local. I know the op cant, cause he's never been there, but I think it'd be a bad ting. Actually, I have spent plenty of time in 0.0. When I started Eve, I was told that 0.0 was a much better place to live than Empire. That it was more interesting. That it was the place to be. And it may be, if you have lots of friends or are part of a huge alliance. But if you are new to the game, or a loner, it's not much fun. Initially I was one of the poor newbs trying to find a quiet place to rat and explore, but since everyone and their brother knew I was there without trying, it wasn't feasible. I learned real fast what Not Blue meant. Then I put a second account into a 0.0 corp and played out there for a few weeks while my main account did his learning skills. Mostly belt ratting, with some gate camps from time to time. Spent a lot of time sitting in a station or safespotting constantly to avoid death when my corp mates were not on and local was full of reds. So, I've spent some time out there. Sure, my experiences in 0.0 and low sec have only been as a newb, but that is true of all my Eve experience. And all of my Eve experience thus far, whether it be in Empire, low sec, or 0.0 make it clear to me that as it is currently implemented, local chat is horrible. It gives out too much information and prevents anyone from hiding in the vaste reaches of the Eve universe. It's like in RTS games where you have units that are camouflaged so that they are hard to spot on the primary view, but they are bright red on the mini-map. Local chat completely defeats the point of having all that space. It turns each huge solar system into another little room that anyone can walk into and know you are there and immediately know everything about you.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:35:00 - [175] Yes, please, let get rid of local, so I cant steal ore from people with names like HG$^%^$!!!!!HP+++ Time for the Penguin mob to start thinking for themselves and stop ruining the game. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:51:00 - [176] Yes please, no local in 0.0. Or at least some sort of nerf to it, like a 5 min delay etc.. CCP you would be amazed how you would achieve a much better game ans solve so many thing REMOVING something from game, not adding stuff. You know there is no value on small fast moving gangs since stealth is not possible with LOCAL. You know That only pushes for blob warfare, server problems, no fun, less small scale combat. You know you want it... If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Lux Simian	Posted - 2007.07.16 16:16:00 - [177] The best bet is probably the compromise, make it like Alliance - those who speak are shown. Either way it makes life both more difficult and easier for Pirates, Miners and traders - and might even encourage fleets to disperse more in order to locate targets. Tactically speaking removing local makes for more options. It would however not be in the interests of those who own 0.0 Space, as they would need people on gates to moniter traffic rather than posting one person per system to watch for 'trouble'... All round I prefer the challange and the tactical idea of not having local (where intel is jump, check local before decloaking, Jump).
Dietes Marcellus	Posted - 2007.07.16 16:19:00 - [178] Just have passive scanners that will alarm you of any flying object that comes within 5 AU of you, that way you don't have to scan every 5 seconds. Whats the problem ?
Gimpslayer	Posted - 2007.07.16 17:06:00 - [179] get rid of it. that'd be
Divideby0 Gallente Amalgamated Industries	Posted - 2007.07.16 17:27:00 - [180] I just changed my position on this over the weekend from keeping local to, at the very least, do not show up in local unless you speak. Why did i make this change? I learned to use the directional scanner properly. The directional scanner gives SO much more vital intel than local. There's nothing that indicates "unfriendly" more than seeing the following show up in your scanner: BRUTIX CHEETAH RAVEN DEMIOS VAGABOND FLYCATCHER FLYCATCHER RAVEN CYCLONE Local wont tell you that. You might as well get rid of it. Who is the bigger carebear: The miner who braves lowsec on his own, or the "PvPer" who attacks an unarmed ship?

FT Cold Rise Of The Fallen	Posted - 2007.07.16 17:34:00 - [181] I have some food for thought on this already red-headed step child of a thread. 1. With all this banter about getting rid of local, it leads me to believe that no one has ever used it as an advantage... Say, I dunno as a proactive trap for the people coming to kill you? If you can't think of how this is possible you need to read up on your tactics. 2. Everyone is contantly **ing and moaning about blobs.... So, without local you aren't going to blob even more as protection? 3. Refer to #2 but with gatecamps, and a few handy items that you can anchor. 4. Someone already said it's a 2-way street and I agree. Think about it.... 5. It isn't the only place to get Intel from. No one uses locator agents? 6. There is no need to put EVE and RL together. I am that guy that when you watch a movie says "That's not possible." to which I promptly get a smack on the face or a shutup from the ex. Let's see, you are in a POD controlling a ship (depends on size, some have crews) in the middle of nowhere using highly advanced weapons, highly advanced shields, propulsion, repair tools, etc, but we have sensors that couldn't even find an airplane circa 1943? If it was more like RL, we'd have no advanced weapons or propulsion, but could tell you the moment someone launched a rocket and already have 17 different firing solutions on it in seconds. 7. If you take it away pirates will be angry because it'll be too hard to find prey. If you keep it carebears will be angry because it's too easy to be prey. The game isn't fair because someone doesn't have the upper hand - oh well, ** happens. Both sides can use local to their advantage (see #1). Don't always assume something is inherently good or bad without thinking of ways to manipulate it. Look what happened to the Death Star, The Terminator, Preditor, etc. What is common between all of them? (ok maybe not the terminator but..) Their smug, nothing can hurt me because I know all and am all powerful, attitudes. Just because you have the information doesn't mean it still can't be used against you. Keep local. Don't keep local. In either case, adapt, evolve, overcome. Heaven forbid you have to use your brain for anything in EVE. The only caveat is, to which I agree, scan probes would have to get help if local died.
Raven Starchild	Posted - 2007.07.25 21:11:00 - [182] Wow, so many good ideas about how to change/fix local. I'll throw my suggestions into the mix: 1. Don't get rid of local. Have local display, as it does now, only the players who are also on overview. When you warp away, everybody in local and OV disappear. If you start chatting on local, you break radio silence and make everybody in the system aware of your presence. 2. Scanners. Everybody agrees that in order to change or get rid of local, scanners need a buff. My suggestion is to install two scanners into all ships, except for pods, that everybody can use without skill. The first scanner is a high-power omnidirectional scanner much like radar. It returns only the general direction, a rough distance that ships in the system are relative to you, and the size of those ships sig radii. You can specify the range that this scanner is capable of covering, but it would suck a lot of cap to boost the signal strength. The second scanner is a triangulation scanner and uses triangulation probes. It takes a minimum of three triangulation probes to pinpoint a ship's location in the system and costs some cap. The first scanner would broadcast your presence to everybody in the system whereas the second scanner will only broadcast to the ship you are triangulating to. 3. Scanner arrays. Much like radar stations, they have the same function as triangulation probes. They can be solar powered or fueled like POSes. They're greater range makes them of great use to alliance and corporation defense networks. In times of war or invasion, they can alert the alliance or corporation of an amassing invasion force or destroyed to prevent intelligence from being relayed back. Access to them will be through a defense network and the use of passwords. 4. Asteroid belts. Either keep them as static or make them dynamic, but remove them from overview and warp to rclicks. Miners/ratters/pirates/hunters will have to scan them down in order to warp to them. This would also alert all players in a system to your presence.
Lord Atkinson	Posted - 2007.07.25 21:24:00 - [183] Trash local and double the scanner range....
Ruuph Marx Caldari Free Corp	Posted - 2007.07.25 21:32:00 - [184] /signed the OP, every word. It can be explained in other words, but not better.
Betty Beatser	Posted - 2007.07.25 21:50:00 - [185] Originally by: Divideby0 I just changed my position on this over the weekend from keeping local to, at the very least, do not show up in local unless you speak. Why did i make this change? I learned to use the directional scanner properly. The directional scanner gives SO much more vital intel than local. There's nothing that indicates "unfriendly" more than seeing the following show up in your scanner: BRUTIX CHEETAH RAVEN DEMIOS VAGABOND FLYCATCHER FLYCATCHER RAVEN CYCLONE Local wont tell you that. You might as well get rid of it. Did you just open your scanner on a whim and find a hostile fleet, or did you use local to find out there were hostiles first?
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.25 22:55:00 - [186] While I can live with local as it is, and use it to my advantage, I'm heartened to see that so many people agree that it is dumb to have it as an intelligence gathering tool. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2007.07.25 23:45:00 - [187] Quote: I'm heartened to see that so many people agree that it is dumb to have so many subscribers. fyp


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