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Get rid of local...

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Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2007.07.13 17:42:00 - [121] Local is perfectly fine because it is a two way street. Pirates can see you and find out all about you. You can also (From the station I might add) find out all the information on who is a pirate and who is not before you decide to do mission. You can then decide if its not worth the risk, to move to another system and run missions. I dont care about cloaked ships. If you wanna screen them out of local...what the hell why not. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Exortius Amarrus The Clearwater Society Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.13 17:46:00 - [122] Originally by: Nachshon I have a better idea - make local optional. It equalizes the playing field somewhat. You can avoid being seen by others... at the cost of not being able to see them. Turning off local would make sense if you are a mission runner, or if you are being hunted by a gang - until, that is, they drive you into a trap. Like active/passive sonar? I like.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2007.07.13 17:50:00 - [123] No, if you make it optional, then screwing with macrominer fun would cease! _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Reileen Kawahara	Posted - 2007.07.13 18:09:00 - [124] Away with local!
Zak Kingsman A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.07.13 19:37:00 - [125] Edited by: Zak Kingsman on 13/07/2007 19:37:50 I like the idea of no local unless you break radio silence. I also like the idea of a passive sensor on your ship so that if you get actively scanned you know it. In the scanning system allow for a FoF squak so you can immediately determine if the person is blue or not (will never differentiate between nuetral or hostile, just not friendly or friendly which is just as good in 0.0 as almost everyone is NBSI). Add a Pos module that allows for strong long range scans that report to local ships if it gets a hit. Possibly link the range of this information with sov level, the longer you've been in a system the more refined you can get your information gathering tool. Short range deployables would be a nice addition to interdictor launchers, pop them up on various areas in the system and anyone in your gang gets the intel it sees, would last longer than interdictor bubbles and allow you to put down intel gathering devices at all gates to watch your backside... now you just gotta worry about what may or may not be in the system already.
Andraea Sarstae	Posted - 2007.07.14 05:23:00 - [126] Originally by: Matthew Cooper Edited by: Matthew Cooper on 13/07/2007 05:44:11 Originally by: Andraea Sarstae Wonder why they never did anything with this. Originally by: Oveur Just to clarify some things, these are ideas, not something that is scheduled for implementation. Right, I get that... but I wonder why the ideas never went anywhere... i.e. have they just not gotten around to it yet? Did they come to conclusion that it shouldn't change?
Andraea Sarstae	Posted - 2007.07.14 05:26:00 - [127] Originally by: Hubert Bonmarchais Players voted NO to the "Remove local ?" poll 3 years ago. We have to deal with it. Democracy ftw. Democracy is a horrible approach to game design.
Jaikar Isillia The Vinlanders Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.14 05:56:00 - [128] Originally by: Andraea Sarstae Originally by: Hubert Bonmarchais Players voted NO to the "Remove local ?" poll 3 years ago. We have to deal with it. Democracy ftw. Democracy is a horrible approach to game design. Democracy is a horrible approach to life in general. I will make all the decisions for you and you shall be happy.
Vizranuh	Posted - 2007.07.14 05:56:00 - [129] I also support the removal of Local. --
Vodun	Posted - 2007.07.14 05:57:00 - [130] I would like to see local removed as well.

El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.14 08:29:00 - [131] Removal of local would have a detrimental effect on the subscription and server populations. Within the first 3 months of removing it you'd lose between a quarter to one half of current subscriptions I think. It would then decline more until it flattened off around a 60 - 70 % loss.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.14 09:00:00 - [132] Originally by: El'Niaga Removal of local would have a detrimental effect on the subscription and server populations. Within the first 3 months of removing it you'd lose between a quarter to one half of current subscriptions I think. It would then decline more until it flattened off around a 60 - 70 % loss. How come so many people against local nerf are noob corp alts? Remove local in 0.0, not empire. 80% of players live in empire. Local nerf would not effect all the empire huggers in any way. Of the people that do live in 0.0, maybe 25% will leave - worst case scenario. That's just 5% of the total player base - and it probably won't be that bad. I know for certain that local nerf is going to hit chinese isk farmers in 0.0 worse than real players. Which is very good.
Lavinrac Krad Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.14 10:14:00 - [133] Edited by: Lavinrac Krad on 14/07/2007 10:16:32 I support getting rid of local, getting rid of the Map Statistic people in system the last 30 minutes and jumps in system the last hour (not sure about the time on jumps one, but I'm sure keeping track of Jita jumps alone causes a hell of a lot of lag). I'm not in an alliance nor a 0.0 person, so I care less about the cryno (think that is how it is spelled, like I said, I'm not a 0.0 person) field thingy one... BTW- Within a month after this nerf, the new n00bs would never know about the local nerf and would replace the people who left because of it Why donÆt you show us on the dolly where the bad miner touched you. -Thesas THE NERF BAT COMETH! REPENT SINNER!
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.14 12:57:00 - [134] Originally by: El'Niaga Removal of local would have a detrimental effect on the subscription and server populations. Within the first 3 months of removing it you'd lose between a quarter to one half of current subscriptions I think. It would then decline more until it flattened off around a 60 - 70 % loss. 1/4 to 1/2 of subscriptions lost? Are you kidding? 1/4 to 1/2 of people wouldn't even notice it was gone.
Mjoelnir Thorwulf Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.14 13:01:00 - [135] Edited by: Mjoelnir Thorwulf on 14/07/2007 13:03:01 There's been a variety of ideas, good ones as well, especially about automatic passive scanning of limited range (15au is being mentioned, but this could also be a factor of sig radius). I'm wondering if it would be possible to have a corner of space, at first without passive scanners or anything, stripped of the local. Just to see who would stay away and who would go in there. I doubt anyone would want to have that experiment on their turf, which might require a new small region, even temporary (which CCP might to be too thrilled about adding, reading a few threads revolving around new regions). If Eve had shards, it might be easier to try out, for a set time - now it may be too much of a hassle to try out in TQ, and nobody really plays in test server, so getting the "feel" there isn't gonna work for players, IMO. There's been two involuntary experiments on this in TQ already. First one was bad programming in one of the patches, which allowed you to simply close local via the channels dialog and the other was some sort of a problem with the IRC-whatever services that run even chats when everyone's local was busted. Former was used quite some time, both by raiding and defending/NPC'ing people, both in 0.0 and in lowsec, until deeped publicly as an exploit (after high pitched whinage). Second test was much sorter, just couple of hours, if I recall correctly. During this time most people dropped what they had and went out roaming, and some who I knew decided not to undock at all until it was fixed. Shows what kind of people I know, but also that changing the way local now is will not have one simple effect one way or the other - and to claim so is just stupid and childish. I really think limited but longer running experiment would be revealing, much more so than people on both side of the fence speculating from their subjective and biased points of views. My signature exceeds the maxium allowed coolness factor. -- Mjoelnir Thorwulf
whahein Minmatar Bipolar Barnstorming	Posted - 2007.07.14 13:06:00 - [136] Edited by: whahein on 14/07/2007 13:06:51 Originally by: Ephemeron How come so many people against local nerf are noob corp alts? How come 80% of all post on those forums are made by noob corp alts? You know as well as anyone how most aliance feel towards members displaying different opinions publicly, so a lot of noobcorp alts can and will be fronts for more experienced players. And please stop the stupid misuse of outdated dev post as rationalisations, we dont know wry CCP never acted on the initial plans pehaps it was democracy or phaps they just realised the problems of replacing something that works in a balanced way, function as a social channel with something overly complex that does not have the same potential for player interaction. I note that all the replacements being proposed are pure ship type tactical, while local adds the posibility of knowing the oponent from previus engagements, i.e. adds a deaper level of strategic info. and EvE is not counterstrike in space it's a higly strategic roleplaying game with Pew Pew added.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.14 13:48:00 - [137] Just while we are on the topic. Be kinda cool and interesting if you have say a large bounty on your head and if you warp into a .5 plus sec system, a warning msg gets said in local that a rumoured dangerous pilot has entered system. Actually a great idea came to my mind. What if you can bribe condor in low sec to hide you in local? Actually yeah thats kinda cool. You pay them a set price per hr to hide you in local. Catch is if a pirate comes they too can bribe concord to hide themselves in local and even say double the isk to release information in local. Actually I honestly think thats kinda a cool idea. Make out some concord pilots in deeper space are corrupt. Say for eg it cost you 100k to bribe concored for that region plus 50k every low sec system you jump into every hour to hide yourself in local. A pirate does the same but for him to ask condord to release information it will cost him that plus double the amount of each person who has bribed condor. So say 20 ppl pass through xyz system but 7 of them bribed concored. A pirate bribes condored to release information, he has to pay 100k to hide himself for that region, 50k to hide himself in that system plus 100k for each person who has bribed concored for that our. Costing that pirate 850k to use local. However there might be only 2 people still in that system in local, maybe none. Would this add lag? Probably but hey, just an idea. Also the price to bribe concored can easily be debated.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.14 14:42:00 - [138] - would this add lag should never be a question when discussing additions to the game especially since pretty much everything causes lag ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Vizranuh	Posted - 2007.07.15 04:59:00 - [139] Originally by: El'Niaga Removal of local would have a detrimental effect on the subscription and server populations. Within the first 3 months of removing it you'd lose between a quarter to one half of current subscriptions I think. It would then decline more until it flattened off around a 60 - 70 % loss. Are you mental? What hat do you pull these arbitrary numbers from? --
Stellar Vix State War Academy	Posted - 2007.07.15 08:42:00 - [140] I play eve to get away from work not do work again... watching a gate is like watching buildings 99% of the time nothing happens, watch long hours and ultimately not making any isk at all... :( This also always give the hostile force the advantage at any and all times because now your wasting anywhere from 20-30 people just for intel in a single constellation, 20-30 people that can help fight back. Unless there is some good alternative I hate to say it but local has to stay because its bad enough i got 80 hour work week, dont need more work here either. ========= 400x120 13kbs... SWA Qualified Instructor and Mascot or sorts Ensign Stellar Vix

Jenai'na	Posted - 2007.07.15 11:24:00 - [141] Originally by: RuriHoshino Originally by: goatplasma First fact of EVE: EVE does not represent real life Seriously, what on earth happened to Newtons laws of motion in EVE? They went out of almost every space game ever made when it became clear that people would have to spend 99% of their time just navigating. I agree that EVE != real life, but it is clearly based on certain real life principles. If they didn't want us to feel a certain connection with IRL warfare, they could have called frigates "gumsticks" or something equally weird. Some things translate well to video games, and some don't. Local as it exists is something that makes no sense in game or out. sticking with your logic and assumeing stargates to be some sort of border check point, it would make perfect sense that a stargate would register your age, ship type, name and affiliation when you jump through. it would also make perfect sense that this would be transmitted in a solar system wide broadcast. i dont care either way local, no local, i m sure i would adapt but starting RL comparisons is silly and pointless.
General Apocalypse Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.07.15 11:51:00 - [142] Adapt don't whine like a sisi . If 90% of the EVE players woud do that you woudn't see so many stupid posts Thank You SkyFlyer
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.07.15 11:56:00 - [143] /signed for removal of local from 0.0 Or at the least.. the removal of automagic local updating with players rather then becoming visible when you say something ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.07.15 12:02:00 - [144] Originally by: Dietes Marcellus Don't get rid of it, just make it so you can't see who is in it unless they say something. That way carebares can still ***** and complain when they get scanned out and killed anyways. I fully support this idea. CCP, are you guys watching this thread?
Don't Panic Rest home for Tired Seadogs	Posted - 2007.07.15 12:19:00 - [145] Originally by: FT Diomedes Originally by: Dr Shameless keep local with total number of people in, but dont show their names until they have spoken themselves. Maybe give some functionality to onboard directional scanner so when it finds people it uncovers their names in local list. This defeats the point of being able to hide. I want someone to have to work to figure out if there is ANYONE in the system, not just to know exactly who is there. EVE is already a very very very time-consuming and repetitive "game". Do not add more meaningless, repetitive tasks you have to do just to survive. I do NOT want to WORK to find out if there's anybody in the system. It's a game, not a freaking job. Removing local would alienate a large portion of non-hardcore gamers, and CCP need the non-hardcore gamers to make money.
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc	Posted - 2007.07.15 12:41:00 - [146] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 15/07/2007 12:42:44 Removing local will stop important communication. With local I found lots of people in 0.0 or low-sec sharing my attitude and getting together against piracy or 0.0 PvPers. Without local this process it getting too time consuming. EVE is still a game for people with much spare time. Local is a feature to add more dynamics to the player communication. For me local is totally important when I run missions. I am aware of the numbers and gangs of pirates. Without local I would not feel comfortable to run a mish. This makes mission run more critical and unsafe. A removed local is a great advantage for pirates and you need to spend more time in running to bookmarks even when the system is empty. I deal with local and adapt and use tactics for safer mission run. When probe pirates warp in they get de-cloaked by my cans or I say "You are dismissed!" in 100km distance still killing some NPC. So what. Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.15 12:49:00 - [147] Edited by: Ephemeron on 15/07/2007 12:50:58 If you feel safe and secure in a low security system because of local, then that's proof that local is breaking intended game design. You are not supposed to be safe and secure in low security system! Not unless you try activity scan for people, or use friends, or do whatever you need to do rather than sit back and keep an eye on chat window to insure your security. Another proof that local chat design is broken for low sec systems is that Chinese isk farmers have flooded many 0.0 regions to make their isk for sale. If a mindless farmer can be safe in 0.0 because of local, something's gotta be wrong with the system
Victor Ivanov Minmatar Liberty Rogues Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 13:08:00 - [148] The local is the inferior race! In fact, I shall rename all my ships to be insulting to the local to let it know that I won't have any of it around! Unite, my brothers and sisters, against our common enemy: The Local. ----------------------
Psorion Absolute Wrath Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.15 13:31:00 - [149] Sorry, I like having local. When RA-Goons come to jump into my system with their roaming blob I like the fact that my stargate publishes the new jumpins. This gives me a chance to defend my space. I still have to risk losing my ship, just as the invaders have to risk our Home defense gang sending them home. The point of local is local broadcast. It really helps both sides but of course some people want an I-win advantage. The same ones saying they want local gone would be the same ones crying that they got ganked without warning. FFS, even if u see someone in local, chances are they are safe spotted, cloaked, or docked/POS sitting. You still have to find that person, and evading a 'non-scanprobe' ship isnt that hard. Local is fine Cloaking is fine That is all Cloaked and AFK at a system near you...
Gibbal Slogspit Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.07.15 13:37:00 - [150] Remove Local in 0.0



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