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Largest fleet battle EVER!!

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Motaka	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:11:00 - [1] Today, now, FE forces with m0o is battling EVO and FA forces. The total in local approach 155 pplz. "OMG we are gonna crash the node" as some of my fellow corp mates scream as enemy forces jump into the system and appear at random, if at all at the Z3 gate in YZ-LQL in the Fountain region. What a day for EVE as they have the most pplz log online 6000+ and the largest battle ever. With large numbers come large problems. With a present grid next to the gate which doesnt help much in battles. The massive lag premits the enemy forces to beable to regroup at a local station. Where is the extra juice for the extra pplz. "I can't even activate my modules!!" some say as the forces appear and we try to get a lock onto their ships? Good luck m0o and the rest of FE as they fight for control of Fountain!
Reddari	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:18:00 - [2] We did a warp to the Z30 gate which was camped by m0o alliance. My ship managed to move a few km, then everything froze, 2 minutes later I see that I have sustained heavy damage to my frigate. 5 minutes later I still see all the same ships and NOTHING moving. I've tried warping out several times but nothing happening. I log out and back in......... ....... ........ ....... ...... stuck on ACTIVATING CHARACTER 3rd time I try I get past that... only 2 minutes until I see my pod floating at another stargate. The lag was not funny, no one was getting target locks and parts of gang landed behind a grid. We need this fixed
Mongo Peck	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:22:00 - [3] Edited by: Mongo Peck on 26/01/2004 01:23:21 Agreed .... we pay to play and we simple can't do anything apart from mine and small fleet battles ..... This lag will kill this game as more and more people come on-line ... Its simply unfair to "all" sides to lose months of work because the game cannot handles anything apart the simplest tasks ... CCP sort it ..... FFS Mongo speaks !!
Panzer	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:35:00 - [4] This is terrible. CCp needs to fix this crap. I jumped in along with a few others and never even loaded , was forced to log... In other situations inside the systems i hear people cant even do crap while their ship is getting torn apart. WTF is this.
Sequin	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:38:00 - [5] I jumped into a non guarded gate in yz...took 6 minutes to load...total bull**, fix the game or i'm cancelling my sub, not paying for 10 v 10 fights. Beta was better. ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!**
Mongo Peck	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:39:00 - [6] Edited by: Mongo Peck on 26/01/2004 01:42:47 You couldn't move, target, fire, warp ..... 14 minutes to activate 1 module !!!! I feel sorry for "all" people who have lost a ship tonight because off CCP lack of foresight .. Mongo speaks !!
Cao Cao	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:41:00 - [7] Sounds like it is time for them to upgrade their servers... Now that the membership count is up they should be able to afford it
Deathwing	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:42:00 - [8] Im still loading space <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS
Maiwenn LeBesco	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:43:00 - [9] There is nothing more frustrating than sitting in space, completely helpless & unable to move with 60 or so opponents trying to kill you. I wish something could be done about this.
Jacob Molari	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:48:00 - [10] Agreed.
John Prescott	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:49:00 - [11] Well, i was in that small group of (lol) 30 odd FA ships out of a possible 55 in the gang that managed to land on the right side of the grid facing FE/m0o. there must have been maybe 80 ships at that gate total..lag didnt seem "too" bad initially, then it all went to ratsh1t and no modules worked, locking wouldnt work, i eventually had to try warping...you guessed it..wouldnt work. I had to log at the gate with my shields at 75%, i dont know if i survived no point in logging back in. So my apologies to the FE/m0o folk who may or may not have killed me. CCP...you have known for some time now that YZ is the focus for alot of players lately, why isnt this being taken into account???
ProphetGuru	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:55:00 - [12] We lost 4-5 I think. Do not quote me on that, not positive yet. Was a super lag fest for sure tho. I apparantly fired some shells and missiles, but never saw my modules turn on. Took 4-5min to warp out. Seen in IRC afterwards, and a sentiment I support and agree with fully, was this.. ¨@Stavros ¨ its the only real endgame of eve ¨Quar ¨ and u cant do it :( Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:56:00 - [13] Unfunny +2 [Heterocephalus glaber]
Nex	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:59:00 - [14] I was a part of the evol fleet, with my little cute apoc, after seeing the enemy fleet jumping i activated my laser, and you wont believe it...ONE realy started to fire!! well, the other 5 didnt, the hardeners didnt, the boosters didnt, my warpdrive didnt want to fly my ass away, at about half shield i only saw hits by missiles ive seen not then there was nothing, so i locked...and had to ask in irc whether i survived, there some guys told me then im destroyed and aprox podded is this the way eve is meant to be played? start a battle and ask in irc whether you survived or not?..im not gonne to pay for this
Sequin	Posted - 2004.01.26 02:02:00 - [15] It was fun initially, I was in the system over with a bud in a Caracal and a another bud in a Merlin. We heard the fight was going down, and decided to run in rather than hide in the system. We got in, took well over 6 minutes to load, I finnaly got in long enough to know it was smarter to run back to the other system, which even took longer as my controls refused to respond. Thank god for my afterburner. The bud in the Caracal (Deathwing) has no idea what happened to him, and the guy in the merlin luckily never jumped in. Would of been a GG:\| ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!
Vacuole	Posted - 2004.01.26 02:08:00 - [16] Here's an example of the problem: With a large engagement (about 30 on each side), I started a lock. My ship locked.. about a minute later, the enemy's icon appeared. I activated my weapons, and heard the familiar "clink" for each turret. About a full minute later or so, my weapons actually came online and started firing. I clicked to warp somewhere, and it took a full minute or so for the warp to actually start. Then, I warped back to the battlefield for a closer range to enemies, and ... the battlefield never "loaded" after about 2-3 minutes of waiting. It just looked like I was there all by myself. So there's obviously a huge issue here that HAS to be addressed. HUGE fleet battles are starting to become more and more commonplace and they are completely unfair for all involved. People will start avoiding them altogether because of the technical limitations, and that sucks BIG TIME. There were people that were shot down in their battleships that were talking in local and they didn't even know it. THAT is terrible. Anyway, I enjoyed the buildup of forces and Evolution corp provided me with a few hours of some grat fun. Too bad a lot of it was spoiled by the CCP hardware breakdown.
Jebidus Skari	Posted - 2004.01.26 02:11:00 - [17] Edited by: Jebidus Skari on 26/01/2004 02:12:40 Could have been amazing. It was **e. I don't expect there to be no lag but FFS nearly 2mins passed and STILL my *** modules didn't activate. At one point I was target jamming a ***** ship that had warped out 30 seconds previous. What's the point, we gave PLENTY warning to the GM's that this was gonna happen and NOTHING was done to help get a grip CCP I don't take any pride in the losses inflicted by us tonight, war or no war.
Mongo Peck	Posted - 2004.01.26 02:13:00 - [18] CCP will pod us all ...... Mongo speaks !!
Viceroy	Posted - 2004.01.26 02:24:00 - [19] yes i agree it was horribly horrible lag. and we got gagged on the Help channel when we demanded more nodes -
Dirge	Posted - 2004.01.26 02:25:00 - [20] Edited by: Dirge on 26/01/2004 02:28:05 That was a complete joke. Noone in our gang save maybe two people could even fire on the attacking forces. My ship started literally spinning in circles as I took damage and was unable to do anything at all. After about ten minutes of watching my shields slowly go down, I relogged to find myself in a pod at the point I had selected to warp to about six minutes previous. Very sad, very sad indeed.
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.01.26 02:25:00 - [21] I take my hat off for FA to attack us while Evolution was jumping in. I admire Evolution to actually jump in knowing that we were waiting for them on the other side. But I hope we will have "good" fights later on *Spawn of the Devil*
Motaka	Posted - 2004.01.26 02:27:00 - [22] Large fleet battles will continue to happen more frequently. IF this is gonna happen every time we want to mass a fleet of 30+ ships and eve is going to continue to produce massive lag, where are we to turn?
StoreSlem	Posted - 2004.01.26 02:51:00 - [23] These battles were just sad, really sad. Load for half a minute upon warping in, lock a guy for a minute, activate gun takes another two minutes. Suddenly 12 people targets you so you think its time to warp off, but not entirely sure whats faster, logging off or warping out.
Zenst	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:05:00 - [24] 10 mins to load screen, same as before and you can bet the GM will say "lag sorry our server's cannot confirm this, blah blah blah" well sorry GM's this is an utter .......... joke. you have had 3 weeks notic of this issue and yet you for all intencive perppourses sit out there doing nothing apart from say - " O please people , lets be nice to each other and civil", duh yeah but having to spend weeks to build a ship so you can watch it vanish, O sorry not actualy see it vanish and to get fobbed of with same old story and no effort or even acknowledging the issue enough to warn people ie frankly neglagent, incompetante and a waste of all our time. WHY did you think you got alot of peeps on today, look at the stars - HA, no a major big battle. And alllll those people are now going. Well what an anticlimax, guess that kills only thing left looking forward to now. nice one CCP, once again great peace of procrastination. I and many many others feel deeply let down CCP, you have had no excuse and the fingers in the ear approach funnily enough isn;t working on the customers anymore. We know it can be fixed, we know you can do it, then why O why are you being such idjots and seem intemt on loosing ALOT of customers having quashed there last best chance of fun down to 10 mins loading screens and bullettime rip off's with insti jumps to clone station as something shot something in something with something as such and such time, coz we cant confirm this as our logs dont show this to be the case. Errr yeah ln -s /ccp/log /dev/null was it or along those line to save disc space, Sorry have to ask as thats all alot of upset peeps seem to get as response and frankly ............................................... /turns of rant mode and goes to bed/
Stavros	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:12:00 - [25] Exactly the same as what happened a couple weeks ago, looks like nothing has changed. sad stav :( -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Maiwenn LeBesco	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:18:00 - [26] Edited by: Maiwenn LeBesco on 26/01/2004 03:20:05 Well in fairness to the GMs, they warned us that if we would probably crash the server if we jumped in. At least it didnt crash, i suppose, but we weren't going to have travelled so far without at least trying to get a fight first. The problem with this whole dillema, is that it would appear that numbers will not mean anything when you get to a certain level. It wouldnt have mattered if all of FE, CA, SA, m0o and FA had all rallied together to fight our fleet today - at this present time, fighting 50 evol pilots just means "unplayable.. dont bother".
Panzer	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:24:00 - [27] But still, we came 50 jumps up there and wasted a whole day to just not jump into YZ- because ccp said not to because ccp didn't do anything about the nodes earlier. Does that sound fair to you?
nails	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:29:00 - [28] I find it hard to believe that CCP is not doing anything at all to correct this. The devs have asked before for prior knowledge of giant fleet battles so they can monitor the servers. This one today was reported in the help channel well before the battle began. This game MUST support massive fleet battles, I don't care if the game can't handle it. CCP HAS to make it work, and there are no excuses for lack of functionality just because CCP doesn't want to spend our money on better servers and additional nodes. CCP you created this game, you had to of known that there would be large fleet battles. We set a record today for on online users, that can only mean that fleet battles are going to get bigger and bigger. Don't blame this on client side lag, because everyone knows that's totaly not true. The lock up lag is being caused by the servers not being able to handle 60+ users on the same screen, only 60+ users! Maybe you guys were hoping that everyone would just have little carebear fights till you guys got a good 200k users signed up. The fact is there are factions and alliances, and they can put giant fleets together now, and by all consideration, fleet battles are what EVERYONE wants to be a part of. Anyway, this needs to be fixed, people will not put up with it forever. I hope CCP says something about making progress towards fixing this everyday problem. ------------------ http://ota-corps.otaku.jp -- Anime l33t level
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:29:00 - [29] Well, you all can be pleased by that CCP is currently redoing alot of coding that will allow us to have huge battles with very little or no lag, but as with everything and specially coding of this magnitude it takes time. SO we have to cope with what we have atm *Spawn of the Devil*
Presidio	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:30:00 - [30] Edited by: Presidio on 26/01/2004 03:36:10 Quote: But still, we came 50 jumps up there and wasted a whole day to just not jump into YZ- because ccp said not to because ccp didn't do anything about the nodes earlier. Does that sound fair to you? so you suggest this? : player> hello ccp we have a HUGE battle today, we're on our way, can you please rewrite your game code and apply the patch by the time we get there, beef up the node, we have 30 jumps left btw? GM> sure np. --- yeah right - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung
Stavros	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:30:00 - [31] panzer, without smack talking and without trying to start arguement, the EXACT same thing happened a week or two ago to us, we had no gm warning either, I tried to warn people on both sides about what would happen but I know the feeling when u just want to battle onwards no matter what :D Its experiences like these however that make high level players quit, which is ghey. the sad thing is that atm, all u need to be able to do is field about 50 ships and nobody can touch u because the system lags up so bad. sad state of affairs... -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Sequin	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:32:00 - [32] Quote: Well, you all can be pleased by that CCP is currently redoing alot of coding that will allow us to have huge battles with very little or no lag, but as with everything and specially coding of this magnitude it takes time. SO we have to cope with what we have atm Whered they say that? And why wasn't it done sooner?:\| ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:36:00 - [33] Quote: Quote: Well, you all can be pleased by that CCP is currently redoing alot of coding that will allow us to have huge battles with very little or no lag, but as with everything and specially coding of this magnitude it takes time. SO we have to cope with what we have atm Whered they say that? And why wasn't it done sooner?:\| I have family and friends in the right places *Spawn of the Devil*
Kilroy Kilgore	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:41:00 - [34] ARGGGG!!!! Shiver me timbers, we should make CCP walk de plank!!!!! Send them to davy jones's locker I say or fix the lag da scurvy sea dogs they be . . yaaarrrr. "These snoosh berries taste like snoosh berries!!!"
Preacha	Posted - 2004.01.26 03:58:00 - [35] Quote: I take my hat off for FA to attack us while Evolution was jumping in. I admire Evolution to actually jump in knowing that we were waiting for them on the other side. But I hope we will have "good" fights later on Agreed, it took alot of balls to jump in on us "knowing" what would happen,,(LAGFEST) Even if i my self at times didnt have much problems i could hear and see that most of my fleetmates where clearly not seing the same things i had on my screen. The "rush" was fun, but all in all shame this lag couldnt have been fixed before hand.
Maiwenn LeBesco	Posted - 2004.01.26 04:21:00 - [36] Ha that bumrush scared the hell out of me - we had just killed a couple of your scouts and i had skipped out there in my punisher scout to check cargo/pick up any corpses etc, then all of a sudden 50 battleships warp in right beside me within 5 seconds. Needless to say, I about-faced pretty quickly.
LLeBRing	Posted - 2004.01.26 04:24:00 - [37] This is not good... No one is gonna do a large fleet battle now knowing this. Everyone will resort to smaller skirmishes to get the job done and well... me thinks that doesn't get the job done :) Nuttin but corn bread en chicken for this fella
Acks	Posted - 2004.01.26 04:26:00 - [38] Quote: Sounds like it is time for them to upgrade their servers... Now that the membership count is up they should be able to afford it they just did upgrade them remember
ReapZ	Posted - 2004.01.26 04:45:00 - [39] Edited by: ReapZ on 26/01/2004 04:56:13 It was amazingly slow. When I clicked to jump into YZ it took about 5 minutes before anything happened, then the screen switched to the entering space screen which took several more minutes. Finally YZ space background loads, I note local has about 118, and my apoc appears. I expected to appear in a pod, but not a scratch on me. I look up (about 50km) and there is the m0o/FE fleet, 40plus strong. m0o fleet I'm sitting stopped for ages and they couldn't lock me even though I was uncloaked by this point. Finally a couple of minutes later I warp out. Frustrating for all concerned. Would have loved to have the full m0o/FE fleet get into lag-free combat with us :( --------------------------------- Keep this thread clean. - Orestes
Maiwenn LeBesco	Posted - 2004.01.26 04:57:00 - [40] Edited by: Maiwenn LeBesco on 26/01/2004 04:58:40 oh no.. reaper's controls are melting!
ReapZ	Posted - 2004.01.26 05:32:00 - [41] yes they melted trying to hold the server scramble --------------------------------- Keep this thread clean. - Orestes
Primo x	Posted - 2004.01.26 06:13:00 - [42] Quote: This is not good... No one is gonna do a large fleet battle now knowing this. Everyone will resort to smaller skirmishes to get the job done and well... me thinks that doesn't get the job done :) Nahh we just keep on like we have and see if the fix the problems. The lag today was crazy, i mean we are going to have some but that was to much. "There is only one way out of this system,, to bad you are warp scrambled"
Eneroth	Posted - 2004.01.26 06:17:00 - [43] Quote: Edited by: Dirge on 26/01/2004 02:28:05 That was a complete joke. Noone in our gang save maybe two people could even fire on the attacking forces. My ship started literally spinning in circles as I took damage and was unable to do anything at all. After about ten minutes of watching my shields slowly go down, I relogged to find myself in a pod at the point I had selected to warp to about six minutes previous. Very sad, very sad indeed. Hmm i had you warp disrupted but all was ****** up couldent see my own missiles and it took about 50min to reload my launchers. -Any fool can pull a trigger.-
Lomex	Posted - 2004.01.26 06:20:00 - [44] Quote: Unfunny +2 Maybe its just too early in the morning, but that made me snort my cola. ___________________________________________ Join in the NEW Sci-Fi Quiz
LLeBRing	Posted - 2004.01.26 06:42:00 - [45] well technically, you guys didn't even really fight since there was so much lag. MAN! I Can't wait till the first big EVE fleet battle! Nuttin but corn bread en chicken for this fella
McWatt	Posted - 2004.01.26 07:10:00 - [46] Quote: Edited by: Presidio on 26/01/2004 03:36:10 so you suggest this? : player> hello ccp we have a HUGE battle today, we're on our way, can you please rewrite your game code and apply the patch by the time we get there, beef up the node, we have 30 jumps left btw? GM> sure np. --- yeah right yes. they knew about the situation early enough. players are doing their best to reduce lag (no drones...) it s unclear why ccp wouldn t run certain systems on an extra node on short notice.
sutty	Posted - 2004.01.26 07:57:00 - [47] took me exactly 12 mins to load space. and the auto pilot said 4 times "warping to bla bla" We actually inquired about giving up more nodes to fountain but was told that the server would need a reboot and come configeration would be needed. why cant they just put in some code for load balancing ?
Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2004.01.26 08:05:00 - [48] Sad to hear about the lag, but its very difficult to "boost" the servers at demand, probably even so on a sunday. But maybe some "auto boost" will come that senses large numbers of ships in systems and diverts power to those nodes. "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
Sally	Posted - 2004.01.26 08:11:00 - [49] Quote: Sad to hear about the lag, but its very difficult to "boost" the servers at demand, probably even so on a sunday. But maybe some "auto boost" will come that senses large numbers of ships in systems and diverts power to those nodes. True, but it's not like YZ-LQL has no traffic or no battleships fighting all the time. (I have 40 fps wihtout most UI, around 30 fps with it. 68 ships in gang doing nothing bring me down to 20 or something, if people use drones it's getting even worse (like halfed). My computer is fast enough to handle it all and I hope CCP is going to improve all that latency stuff.) -- Stories: #1 --
Reddari	Posted - 2004.01.26 08:12:00 - [50] Quote: well technically, you guys didn't even really fight since there was so much lag. MAN! I Can't wait till the first big EVE fleet battle! Actually about 40-50 FA ships jumped to the stargate to pester 40-50 m0o while 50 EVOL jumped. FA can confirm 2 of their frigates killed and maybe a battleship, John Prescott hasn't tried logging in again so we don't know! We went up to 148 in local. Then the 40-50 m0o jumped on 50 strong EVOL at Assembly station and the node froze for several minutes.
Mordengaard	Posted - 2004.01.26 08:20:00 - [51] Took a good 10 minutes to exit the station once we got the word that assembly was being moved upon. By then most of Evol had left the area apart from the half dozen of us that were still docked and staring at "Entering Space" for a good while, hoping that everything would sort itself out to a point that we could warp out - which fortunately we could. All in all a fun day up until YZ, but the lag reminds me of beta days, which is not a good thing a year or more down the track..
qrac	Posted - 2004.01.26 08:28:00 - [52] i warped in. when i came in the lag wasn't bad then i warped to my safespot to spread out and align for it and pressed stop 3 times. 1 minute later i saw myself warping and i was wtf is going on. i tried warping back in but couldn't see anything. ------------------------------------------- Insanes numquam moriuntur!
StiZum Hilidii	Posted - 2004.01.26 08:41:00 - [53] when will ccp realise atm yz is more important than yulai. get it sorted ccp or scrub bs cos without battles whats the point STAN FACTA NON VERBA
Deadzone	Posted - 2004.01.26 09:05:00 - [54] How come CCP has not made any post reguarding this? Why have they not responded and why haven't they told us how and when they intend to fix these game-killing problems. So much for fleet engagements which they advertised as being the mainstay of their game. Vice-Admiral Executive Commanding Officer Military Command Hadead Drive Yards
Ranya	Posted - 2004.01.26 09:31:00 - [55] Quote: Edited by: Maiwenn LeBesco on 26/01/2004 04:58:40 oh no.. reaper's controls are melting! Look out for the Uber Server Jammer II ! Get yourself an intelligence implant.
PropanElgen	Posted - 2004.01.26 09:37:00 - [56] It was crazy, I tried recording with fraps, but it's no point making a vid out of it, since it's basically empty space with a station, took about 3 minutes to activate my boosters, after 4 minutes I got ships on screen, and I couldn't get any target locks before the targets warped out or was already dead... Maybe CCP would like to see a vid of how laggy it was All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2004.01.26 09:40:00 - [57] It really is quite urgent that this be 'fixed' very soon. Fleet battles are only going to get bigger and bigger; with more an more players joining the game world. CCP should either double the entire server capacity, or attempt some other less brutal solution.
Alkad Mzu	Posted - 2004.01.26 10:09:00 - [58] I guess it's safe to say that both sides knew how the node would behave, given that most of us experienced the same thing only a couple of weeks ago. Only this time the numbers were even higher. This said, it's a sad day for a mmorpg when what is really a moderate number of players are unable to execute a tactical fleet manouver without having to plunge into utter randomness. Luckily, none of the sides suffered substantial losses. ________________________________________________ Head of Public Relations, Fountain Alliance
Eldariel	Posted - 2004.01.26 10:13:00 - [59] I must admit I did laugh when Tank and a bunch of others jumped in the help channel demanding the servers be taken down and more nodes be allocated. Like those 6300 other players on the servers at the time don't matter at all (rofl) I'm also intrigued how everyone is so sure you can just throw more nodes at this to solve the problem, since it assumes the technical design of the application is infinitely scalable (system can be load balanced across as many nodes needed). Could just as easily be that the application is only partially scalable - i.e. they can allocate across multiple nodes, but the number is finite. If that's the case there will always be a technical limit to size of fleet battles unless there is a major rewrite of the server code. Not likely to happen anytime soon ... In a fleet of 150 ships, with 5-10 spawned items per ship at any moment in time (weapon fire, missiles etc), there are going to be something like 1500 objects in space. To my mind it's hardly surprising that things grind to a halt Not saying that CCP shouldn't look into it - but don't expect it to go away anytime soon if it's a design issue ...
Ranandor	Posted - 2004.01.26 10:15:00 - [60] Why would they design it to be this bad though ? Surely they realised that people would amass fleet this large ? Surely they realised that 5000+ people would be online a a single time ? I mean, was a battle of this size not tested in Beta ?
Eldariel	Posted - 2004.01.26 10:19:00 - [61] Edited by: Eldariel on 26/01/2004 10:25:52 Quote: Why would they design it to be this bad though ? Surely they realised that people would amass fleet this large ? Surely they realised that 5000+ people would be online a a single time ? I mean, was a battle of this size not tested in Beta ? Not saying they have - just that it is possible. Only the devs know for sure.. Having said that I vaguely remember some dev chats last year where it was implied the design wasn't infinitely scalable at a system level - could be just me imagining it though Worth noting that lag wasn't bad elsewhere - so 5000+ spread over the universe is fine. Just don't expect to see them all in the same system at the same time anytime soon The point is it's an assumption that throwing more nodes at it will make the problem go away. It may not ..
sutty	Posted - 2004.01.26 10:19:00 - [62] no a battle of this size was never tested in beta. we didn't even have the servers we are on now in beta
ElCoCo	Posted - 2004.01.26 10:48:00 - [63] Please fix this CCP.
Luther Pendragon	Posted - 2004.01.26 10:48:00 - [64] not infinite scalability, greatest scalibility. I took this to mean that they can dedicate a single node to a single system, rather than one node handling several systems. But look what I found in the FAQ though: Quote: 7.3 How is Internet latency handled? Having been designed from its earliest stages specifically as a MMOG, most of the game systems are devised to minimize network traffic and the effects of lag. This high-level approach makes EVE relatively unaffected by Internet latency. ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! waves his hand in your face in the jedi way
Eldariel	Posted - 2004.01.26 11:05:00 - [65] Edited by: Eldariel on 26/01/2004 11:06:27 Quote: not infinite scalability, greatest scalibility. I took this to mean that they can dedicate a single node to a single system, rather than one node handling several systems. Single node per system would be bad - since the number of supported players would be directly linked to the size of this single box. I've a feeling they might have it scalable at a region or constellation level, but even then there may be a limit to the no. of nodes in the micro-cluster
RagnarH	Posted - 2004.01.26 11:17:00 - [66] batteling are not wich "team" have more players fighting, it's just who got the better computer and lag the least This ain't good CCP ! This char is perm banned on forums :S
Mitram	Posted - 2004.01.26 11:35:00 - [67] Computer does not matter. What matters is the server. The server code must be crap. I am sure upgrading hardware will not help at ther server side either. CCP has to reconsider their software design for the server or they have to at least do a performance profiling on their code. I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of the CPU time and real time in the server is consumed by 1-3 functions.
Rayvenous	Posted - 2004.01.26 11:38:00 - [68] The servercode isn¦t that bad compared with other games like AO. But for the scale that EVE is aimed for its way not good enough (or the machines it runs of are just too crappy) No matter what CCP really needs to do something about it!
Mitram	Posted - 2004.01.26 11:44:00 - [69] Come on. I can not speak of AO. I have played it only like 2 month. I can speak of DAoC. There we were fighting with 500-800 people in one zone in visual range and it was quite playable. The gfx was the main problem and not the server. At first DAoC has big problems too. The zones were crashing if you had more than 500 players in one. But they fixed that lately and now its no problem anymore. BTW: AO as well as EVE are running on some Windows machines (AO is from Microsoft). Maybe the windows platform is not usable at all as massive multiplayer server platform.
Faramir	Posted - 2004.01.26 11:47:00 - [70] Warping in to the station to fight doesn't work out in these situations. I warped in, waited 3 mins for some graphics but i saw nothing so i warped out again. Nothing changed since e02.
Harry Stoteles	Posted - 2004.01.26 11:51:00 - [71] well, it took me about 20 minutes to jump into YZ .... 20 minutes Then, later on at the station, i got the call that the enemies warped in, so i clicked undock ... after approx 15 minutes 'entering space' i tried to reload, and kept staring on a black screen for another 10 minutes. Thats not even remotely close to the game i thought i'd play here.
Rayvenous	Posted - 2004.01.26 12:31:00 - [72] Quote: Come on. I can not speak of AO. I have played it only like 2 month. Quote: BTW: AO as well as EVE are running on some Windows machines (AO is from Microsoft). Maybe the windows platform is not usable at all as massive multiplayer server platform. I am sorry but i think you talk about AC (Asherons Call), i am talking about AO (Anarchy Online) which isn¦t from Microsoft.
Mitram	Posted - 2004.01.26 12:35:00 - [73] Yep, I mixed AC with AO. Never player AO but heard a lot of bad things regarding bugs, performance and stability.
Zen Later	Posted - 2004.01.26 12:45:00 - [74] Yes was a momentous event. The only thing even more monumental was the incredibly poor game performance.
Christopher Xen	Posted - 2004.01.26 12:47:00 - [75] yeah the lag was bs, considering we warned ccp there was going to be extreme fighting in that area a few days ago.
Gryganne	Posted - 2004.01.26 12:49:00 - [76] I would like to be able to turn all ship/station/roid 3D models off. Just a triangle for friendly ships and a square for ennemy ones should be more than enough in a tactical battle configuration. Would this be this hard to implement? I don't think so... And it would solve a LOT of problems...
Paddyman	Posted - 2004.01.26 12:49:00 - [77] Well cant really add anything new, lag sucked, grids sucked, waiting that long to have it ruined by forces outside our control sucked... But cheers to the FA/Evol members for trying to make it fun, regardless if you were just passing through collecting stuff. We were hoping for a good battle as im sure yous were but it wasn't to be. GL
Yama Booshi	Posted - 2004.01.26 13:00:00 - [78] Edited by: Yama Booshi on 26/01/2004 13:01:10 Quote: Quote: Well, you all can be pleased by that CCP is currently redoing alot of coding that will allow us to have huge battles with very little or no lag, but as with everything and specially coding of this magnitude it takes time. SO we have to cope with what we have atm Whered they say that? And why wasn't it done sooner?:\| From DevChat: Lotta> HALo^Jones> With the stabilisation of many player based alliances, which active steps are being taken to allow for large fleet class engagements, where the result can be determined without lag being a factor and player enjoyment being increased? Do you expect this to be in the form of dramatically altered code, or extensive server upgrades? Currently the lag can't all be attributed to client side, and if so recode. hellmar> as we said earlier we are releasing a form of player owned stations hellmar> we expect all large scale fleet battles to move in to the systems container those stations hellmar> we will give these system high load values, so they will be relatively free of other tasks, solving the server part of fleet battles hellmar> on the client side we have made good progress with increasing frame rates hellmar> specially with regards to drones and missiles TomB> drones are getting big time optimisation again hellmar> so next patch will include solid improvements for fleet battles and I look forward to see some videos after that patch :) hellmar> yes the drone optimisation out there already had more to do with the loading of them hellmar> this new drone optimisation is an optimisation of their rendering after they are loaded Lets hope this will indeed have the desired effect.
Lianhaun	Posted - 2004.01.26 13:23:00 - [79] I was looking over Disco's shoulder to get a feeling of the operation. It wasn't my turn last night :( Must say, i'm actually happy about it..I probably ended up kicking the computer out of lag frustration. /emote waves to all the old lads from Bio & SPVD she saw in local This is not a hijack
SirMolle	Posted - 2004.01.26 13:37:00 - [80] YZ last night at about 1 am servertime, was insanity. We had 52 Evolution pilots. FE/m0o had 50-60 pilots. FA had ~50 pilots. Entering into YZ from Z30; 1 minute after jump - nothing 5 minutes after jump - 5 pilots loaded 10 minutes after jump - 35 pilots loaded 15 minutes after jump - 5 people still not left Z30 Grouped at station, 30-40 EVOL holding. FE/M0o warps in; 2-3 first ships arrive, all fine, targeting and starting to fire. Bulkfleet arrives - everything choked. No modules responded, no commands executed. The chat in YZ stopped, no msg's were sent/received. After 10 minutes, my chat exploded with everything typed the last 10 minutes. Not acceptable.
Jacob Molari	Posted - 2004.01.26 13:51:00 - [81] Yes, last night was amazingly bad. You guys warped into our system, and most of us never saw you at the gate... the gate was doing spasms, yet because of lag, most ships managed to warp to the station still cloaked. Let me give you an idea of what last night was like on TS (p = pirate): p1: Gate is activating, get ready everyone! p3: Huh, my tach shield won't come on p5: Multiple jump-ins! p2: Huh, where? p1: Battleship uncloaking, target the battlship! p4: Ship, what ship? p1: pirate 3, get out of there, a KM stream of missles is headed towards you! p3: Huh, what missles? p7: Local just jumped to 144! They are getting through! Lather, rinse, repeat. Near as I can tell, and I do have degrees in computer engineering, at a certain point, only selected individuals were receiving steady updates of the tactical situation, everybody else was left out. This would indicate to me a cap on their "round-robin" type method of updating clients. This is empirical observation only. A few in the M0o/C0w/FE fleet got real time updates, and real-time lag free battle. I think Omnigen said he had no problems... they had normal lock times, normal views etc. The same had to be true of the Evol fleet, since they were able to take down a BB, and put a hurtin' on 2 of our scorpions... but the server code is not ready for this kind of fleet action. Anyways, the stress of managing such a large battle with such a disparate assemblage of corps wasn't worth the end result. If something "definitive" had occurred, the stress would have been worth it. All we have now is an already overloaded system with even more people in it. And as food chains go, it would not surprise me in the least if those corps at war with Evolution and Company wouldn't also head to YZ to get in on the apocolypse that is occurring there. Which only means more lag, and more lag, and more lag... and more frustration.
Viceroy	Posted - 2004.01.26 13:53:00 - [82] Tough shit!! Worst lag I ever saw, and i think it was pretty much server side. Horrible, didnt get a target lock at the station for about 3-5 minutes, and my modules didnt activate for another 3-5. Very bad -
Beta Vixen	Posted - 2004.01.26 14:02:00 - [83] Computer system wise, lag fests like this are caused by the inability of the server assigned to this system/constellation/region to handle all the transaction volume presented. There are two cases -- either the hardware setup is capable of the volume requested and the software lashup is garbage, or the hardware isn't capable of simultaneously serving 150 peeps in the same system. Anyone who as ever thought about the thousands of simultaneous demands on the servers supporting online banking systems [there are some American banks who have over 10,000 ATMs in their networks, each possibly demanding account information within 60 seconds of each other] knows that the problem can, technically, be solved. It may simply be that CCP isn't a big enough operation and can't afford the required hardware and software -- in which case we'll all end up playing SWG simply because Sony has the massive server ability required. I'm aware this is pretty sad commentary. Not sure what I can do aside from dropping EVE. **** I'm free! I'm free!! **** Imagination comes before Accomplishment.
Estios	Posted - 2004.01.26 14:08:00 - [84] Sorry to hear it wasnt as fun as something of that magnitude should have been. Considered heading up but learnt weeks ago that such large battles simply cannot be performed in EVE at present. Still you could have run LogServer to help GM's out So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Skaz	Posted - 2004.01.26 14:19:00 - [85] Edited by: Skaz on 26/01/2004 14:20:37 As much as I dislike handing the PvP lobbyists a tool (Remember, an empty barrel sounds the loudest) This has to be remedied, This game is called a massively multiplayer, I mean it's massive but the lag issue has been around since Beta, this isn't anything new, and if CCP did predict an increasing number of players (according to the dev blog) then they must have been able to see this coming, right? I think it's not an unexpected problem, this is a flaw in the design, or else they'd fix it in a jiffy. Either they're redesigning the entire setup or not willing to fix this problem because of the labor and complexity. This problem though they won't find a way around (compared to the JIP lag) "No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..."
Mon Mothma	Posted - 2004.01.26 14:27:00 - [86] is it possible to have a such a large scale battle without problems? is there any other online game which has large scale fights without lag...i cant think of one hope it can be sorted tho
Lagar	Posted - 2004.01.26 14:30:00 - [87] yer but surly even you M0o got to be bored of the lag? i mean 100 ships in the same system would ruin your fun hunting them if you laged as much as they do... it hurt's both sides of the law..
Jacob Molari	Posted - 2004.01.26 14:39:00 - [88] Edited by: Jacob Molari on 26/01/2004 14:40:44 Mon Motha, A week prior we had around a 50-60 BS fight with FA, and the lag was all but non-existant. Everyone got on to the forums and congratulated CCP. But in this fight we had a 49 ship M0o+FE+friends fleet engaging two separate fleets, an FA fleet of still undetermined size that was repulsed at the gate, and then the Evolution fleet of about 30-35 ships at the station. All in all, about 120 ships total. More than twice what was involved in the previous weeks fight. As EVE grows, so will the combat. CCP must look into this. And this is normally resolvable by using larger servers (rather than cheaper) on the server side. Those ATM systems all go back eventually to mainframe class UNIX/MVS boxes... multi-million dollar machines designed to handle volume. I surmise that CCP went the cheap route, lots and lots of Wintel boxes... and this is what you get.
Mitram	Posted - 2004.01.26 15:10:00 - [89] I suggest that CCP tries to tune the server for 100 via 100 battles. (Or to be safe for the near feature 150 via 150 battles)
Eldariel	Posted - 2004.01.26 15:17:00 - [90] Edited by: Eldariel on 26/01/2004 15:21:52 Actually Oracle corp (RL - not in-game ) is heavily pushing the latter approach (i.e. wintel cheap boxes running linux, loads of redundancy, but a lot of them) with grid computing If correctly designed (from an application and an architecture perspective) a grid of small boxes can theoretically be much better than one big box. Getting it right from the outset is pretty difficult though - quite easy to miss potential bottlenecks during design, which is probably whats happening here To be fair I've yet to see a MMORPG that didn't have issues with lag and/ or slowdown (whether client or server side) when large numbers of players congregated in a single area or zone. Most just bounce you to a different zone/ area when the load gets too high Odd though - the fact not all are lagged makes it sounds like a load balancing issue - i.e. not distributing load across all nodes correctly. If so it may be "relatively" easy to fix
Jacob Molari	Posted - 2004.01.26 15:46:00 - [91] If correctly designed (from an application and an architecture perspective) a grid of small boxes can theoretically be much better than one big box. Believe me, I'm well aware of this approach. Always the term theoretically is used. But the theory never successfully represents the reality. A simple example can explain. All nodes on a network are connected via cat-5 at 100mbs, so the max volume is calculated based upon 100mbs, but in reality the TCP/IP stack has overhead, and as more nodes are added, you get increased collisions, dropped packets, etc, so the real transfer rate between routers and nodes might drop to under 10mbs... However the architectural model still uses the "theoretical" high-end number of 100mbs. The solution is to use fewer nodes, fewer routers, and to increase server size, however, somebody's senior project predicted that large servers are all too monolithic and uncool (and wired magazine agrees), so they throw even more small servers at the problem only exacerbating the issues that are slowing it down. pant pant pant. Yes, I am a grizzled IT veteran with more than 10 years of experience... I have seen it there, I see it here in the game. Sometimes, size does matter
Eldariel	Posted - 2004.01.26 16:21:00 - [92] Edited by: Eldariel on 26/01/2004 16:25:35 I agree That's still a design issue though - the application design should have assumed a 10 mbps LAN transfer rate, not 100 mbps . In effect the LAN has become the bottleneck ... All architectures have their limitations and pitfalls in one way or another ... the key is balancing these to get optimal results. Optimal results in terms of performance and architecture does not necessarily equate to end user expectations though
Dirge	Posted - 2004.01.26 16:27:00 - [93] Just a note, It is completely possible with todays technology to have huge PvP battles. Any of you that have ever played Planetside know this. I've been involved in battles of 100 vs. 100 on Planetside with no lag whatsoever, and thats a real time, fast moving, FPS. Eve has a huge advantage in that everything happens so much slower, yet they STILL can't keep up with the demands of the clients? Something is very wrong here.
T'el'Alana Luathin	Posted - 2004.01.26 16:41:00 - [94] Well, I believe that it is right that you, who were in this fight complain, and should voice out what you feel. I can estimate that it isn't fun to be a part of a disaster instead of a cool huge fleet-battle with over 100 participants. But I would congratulate you with one thing, you were probably a part of the largest internet-game combat ever to take place.. This was the first time such a huge battle was seen, but probably not the last. I'm more than sure that CCP knows this, and wants to do everything in its power to make sure alot larger fleet-battles happen. They've promised better code with the next patch, and as fleet battles keep on happening, and keep getting bigger and bigger, they'll have a chance to improve the code further and further. So get their attention that the limit has been reached, so they can get to increasing the limit for us to break again. Quitting the game won't make it better.. complaining/reporting about it, and breaking the limits will, as they will then have more and more data to find where the bottleneck is and fix it. K.
Mongo Peck	Posted - 2004.01.26 16:44:00 - [95] Its simply not acceptable when the "current" paying players have to endore conditions like we had last night ........ 6400 users online / 100 ships active in battle = 1.5% ... CCP need to be honest with us and look at the problem instead of this wall of silence expecially when they are trying add more people to the servers. Mongo speaks !!
Scarabe	Posted - 2004.01.26 17:14:00 - [96] lagged more than 2 snails going at it...
Lord Azraiel	Posted - 2004.01.26 18:08:00 - [97] They need to ATLEAST DOUBLE their processing powers. They should have so much processing power they have extra to divey out in such situations at will. "I'm comin' for ya, and Hell's comin' with me!"
Angel O'Death	Posted - 2004.01.26 18:16:00 - [98] Quote: I jumped into a non guarded gate in yz...took 6 minutes to load...total bull****, fix the game or i'm cancelling my sub, not paying for 10 v 10 fights. Beta was better. Can i have your Stuff?
Al Thorr	Posted - 2004.01.26 18:38:00 - [99] As it goes CCP did say that they wernt gonna give us extra resources.. they knew that from the outset.. Basically they expect us to all go hurrah for their own little gimmicks n ceremonies but when a legitimate battle was to start and requests made they simply responded with a STFU .... Nope not nice at all . I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape
Eneroth	Posted - 2004.01.26 18:46:00 - [100] This was me: Warping to station recive that we shall all target X. Im looking for X and where the bleep is he looking for him for about 30sec. Ah **** cant even see him. I choose to attack a apoc in my caracel launch missiles and dont see a single one but i see his shield go down and then he is down to armor (guess that his shield booster didnt activate) 1min later i get the info that my missiles hit him. Reloading launchers wait for 3-5min untile first is reloaded and engage another apoc that was the second target (and this time i could find him). He was lagging so much that he was bouncing around everywhere according to him boom he dies. Puff the fighting was over at the station. This happend once at the gate too. Like 10 ppl target that ship "what ship", wow soo many missiles "what missiles" puff he is dead wtf i didnt see him, but i heard it was a raven. One evo megathron got the same bleep but this time i could see him yeah starting to spam missiles and he dies. And the pilots didnt even see him. edited out the n0rty stuff -Eris Discordia -Any fool can pull a trigger.-
Sequin	Posted - 2004.01.26 20:17:00 - [101] Quote: Quote: I jumped into a non guarded gate in yz...took 6 minutes to load...total bull**, fix the game or i'm cancelling my sub, not paying for 10 v 10 fights. Beta was better. Can i have your Stuff? Sure, you can have my vigil and the 10 units of Spirit I was saving for a special occasion. ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!**
ProphetGuru	Posted - 2004.01.26 20:35:00 - [102] Yes the lag sucked and all, but, I will say one thing. We definately pushed the servers to their breaking point, and their was I heard a gm present, so perhaps this will be a good learning -data collection- tool for the devs. If it costs us 5 ships for data that will help optimize the server in the future, I am quite happy to have done so. It is a bummer and all, but, hey, I was part of something that had never been tried to that extent on the live servers, and heII, it's a good story to tell :):) GG to all that were there. m0o FE FA and my comrades in Evol. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Gan Howorth	Posted - 2004.01.26 21:32:00 - [103] Is it possible that having to download all the skins for every ship that "some others" didn't have in cache put the hurt on the performance? Is it possible that the coding tries to be "fair" by lowest common denominating everyones network response times/bandwidth to the muppet who turned up with a 18800 baud wet piece of frickin string in outer-who-gives-a-****? Is it possible that eve needs a complete rewrite and put on UNIX boxes? Is it possible that CCP can at least get microsoft to do them a custom W2K datacentre solution? You got my money already chaps, please go right ahead!
Brobro	Posted - 2004.01.26 21:57:00 - [104] It seems obvious that this lag is server induced. The answer is not bigger hardware, but loadbalancing. As I dont like to repeat myself: Loadbalancing
ProphetGuru	Posted - 2004.01.26 21:59:00 - [105] Quote: Is it possible that having to download all the skins for every ship that "some others" didn't have in cache put the hurt on the performance? Don't know about the rest of your post, but don't think this was an issue. We had every bship type represented i believe, musta all been cached I would think. Not sure bout the techie stuff tho. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Riddari	Posted - 2004.01.26 22:14:00 - [106] Quote: Is it possible that having to download all the skins for every ship that "some others" didn't have in cache put the hurt on the performance? These "skins" are in your EVE installation allready. ¼©¼ a history
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2004.01.26 23:23:00 - [107] Quote: Edited by: Presidio on 26/01/2004 03:36:10 Quote: But still, we came 50 jumps up there and wasted a whole day to just not jump into YZ- because ccp said not to because ccp didn't do anything about the nodes earlier. Does that sound fair to you? so you suggest this? : player> hello ccp we have a HUGE battle today, we're on our way, can you please rewrite your game code and apply the patch by the time we get there, beef up the node, we have 30 jumps left btw? GM> sure np. --- yeah right Several GMs have told us that if we let them know about a fight before downtime they can boost that node. Only problem is we need the system name and as most battles happen near midnight eve time, that is a 12hr warning we have to give which is just crap.
Eldariel	Posted - 2004.01.26 23:34:00 - [108] Edited by: Eldariel on 26/01/2004 23:37:57 Quote: Several GMs have told us that if we let them know about a fight before downtime they can boost that node. Only problem is we need the system name and as most battles happen near midnight eve time, that is a 12hr warning we have to give which is just crap Thats a common technical limitation on most server applications - server initialization parameters (e.g. those allocating memory etc) quite often can't be changed on the fly. Hence they need a reboot - and this, by inference, probably means a cluster reboot if there are parameter hooks You didn't/ don't really expect them to bounce the entire server/ cluster on demand do you? What about the other 6300 players ...
Jessica Logan	Posted - 2004.01.26 23:46:00 - [109] "Huge fleet battle"? How many of these ships were camping a gate? oO
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.01.27 02:00:00 - [110] Quote: Just a note, It is completely possible with todays technology to have huge PvP battles. Any of you that have ever played Planetside know this. I've been involved in battles of 100 vs. 100 on Planetside with no lag whatsoever, and thats a real time, fast moving, FPS. Eve has a huge advantage in that everything happens so much slower, yet they STILL can't keep up with the demands of the clients? Something is very wrong here. Sony is rich. They can afford the mainframes. They don't seem bonded to the "I must use Wintel" approach either, considering how some Microsoft products compete with Sony. Despite the graphical look of the game, EVE seems to me a 3D interface on top of a massive database. A game like Planetside isn't. Planetside's problems can be solved with more CPU power and main memory. But EVE---with its massive databases---is more complicated than that. This needs a lot of bandwidth, fast transactional processing and really good load balancing (which is not solved in the game software but in the operating system itself), and that means big iron. You may still be able to get away with Intel servers, but only if they are using LInux/Unix but certainly not with Windows. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Zenst	Posted - 2004.01.27 02:47:00 - [111] After many days of bullet effects in ultra slomotion mode the mighty forces assembled all thought sod this for a game of soldiers and decided that they would all join up and go do what is the only thing left to do in fleet battles and see how many nodes they could crash by all jumping into popular 1.0 systems. After several minutes of this a reboot occured thowing the many thousand of players into the void's or RL. Upon there return they found that the great 1.0 systems had been instantly enhanced and all could jump in and out at once with glee, The fleets seeing that this was now fixed moved back to there nice out of the way sop they dont offend all the younger players kinda space and thought Hmmm. We can carry on were we left of now. Wahooooo. Alas this was not to be and the helpless fleets disbanded do the bars for drinks and chat of what could have been and the lamentasious response for those that proactivly try and prevent draining resources of CCP and GM's via petitions though there experiences of the game and abilities to know that round peg goes in round hole and yet the square peg bridage seems too win with regard to positive action in any part. And the moral of this story is "carebears - dont leave home without one"
Rebellion	Posted - 2004.01.27 06:34:00 - [112] Well, at least this got publicized. Now everyone knows how bad the problem is. There's nothing for us to do here, it's entirely up to CCP. And I agree with Dirge, 100-vs-100 battles are done in other games.
Sparta	Posted - 2004.01.27 14:10:00 - [113] I have lost track of the number of posts asking CCP to adjust their node "strength" for the FA war in YZ. I believe they do not have the money to fix it
Moph	Posted - 2004.01.27 16:44:00 - [114] That happens when application/databases programmers choose to make games ;)

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