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If you wanted to reduce blob warfare, why give Cyno Jammers 15m HP?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Torshin Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:32:00 - [31] just pray the alliance isn't smart enough to have POS gun operating alts able to logg on at the POS. 15 guns focus firing can destroy a BS fleet no matter how slow that lock time is ------------------------------------------- Backdoor Bandit - Unofficial leader of the new 'Post with your main or STFU' campaign. I'm Shinra and I'm the champion of Eve.
Astasia Orian Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:48:00 - [32] Good luck hitting an ABing logistics ship with pos guns btw! Maybe with your 3 minute locktime pos web... Point being Yes it's too cheap. Maybe 15m is slightly high, but it's not omg overbalancedAAAAAAA. Might get stickier with faction pos tackle, as they are a significant improvement over basic.
Admiral Shallow Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:49:00 - [33] because jebus says so.. BTW You Suck
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:55:00 - [34] Originally by: Astasia Orian Good luck hitting an ABing logistics ship with pos guns btw! Maybe with your 3 minute locktime pos web... Point being Yes it's too cheap. Maybe 15m is slightly high, but it's not omg overbalancedAAAAAAA. Might get stickier with faction pos tackle, as they are a significant improvement over basic. You've never heard of small pos guns, then? Or a web? As I say - any well setup deathstar and you have a very challenging job on your hands. Oh, plus the POS owners can bring in as many Capitals as they like to remote rep the jammer. The only way to do it with certainty is uberblob. Which I thought was what CCP was trying to move away from in this move. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Astasia Orian Good luck hitting an ABing logistics ship with pos guns btw! Maybe with your 3 minute locktime pos web... Point being Yes it's too cheap. Maybe 15m is slightly high, but it's not omg overbalancedAAAAAAA. Might get stickier with faction pos tackle, as they are a significant improvement over basic. You've never heard of small pos guns, then? Or a web? As I say - any well setup deathstar and you have a very challenging job on your hands. Oh, plus the POS owners can bring in as many Capitals as they like to remote rep the jammer. The only way to do it with certainty is uberblob. Which I thought was what CCP was trying to move away from in this move. Indeed. Also note that since a POS with a cynojammer doesn't need large guns online, since if everything goes right, it will never have to face dreads. So having them offline should be good enough. Which leaves a hell of a lot of grid for small and medium guns, particarly faction ones that use less grid, and do more damage , particularly with the new faction ammo and have a better locktime as well. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:14:00 - [36] A POS: 1x Cyno Jammer 3x Warp Scrambling Arrays 3x Webifier Arrays Fill the rest with Small/Medium Turrets and some Citadel Launchers. No need to even try and harden the POS. No dreadnoughts can jump in to threaten the shields. Keep a friendly carrier or two docked in system; to both remote rep the cyno jammers; and to chuck fighters out against any logistics support. And before someone says "destroy the warp scramblers and turrets first". I'd like to see a fleet of say 50 ships, stick around long enough with warp scramble arrays, to drop that many turrets. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:21:00 - [37] Anyone got the CPU/PG requirements for the jammer? What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:27:00 - [38] 150 CPU, 750k PG if I recall correctly (not 100% sure), someone said it could only be anchored at a large POS, but didnt check this myself yet. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Flower Bear	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:27:00 - [39] Hard for me to feel sympathy for your blob whining BD considering you brought 200 ISSN people to camp 36n to remove a SMALL Pos. I think the hp is fine and no decently organized alliance is going to have a problem mounting a suprise attack to take one down
Solid Wilko Minmatar InNova Tech Inc Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:29:00 - [40] ^^ My alt

QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:31:00 - [41] TBH as a non alliance player, these cyno jammer actually worry me a little. They have the potential to be spammed to high heaven across 0.0 space making the blob king again. And the blob needs to stop being king. these things have a major game altering affect and should not be allowed to be spammed around after 28 days of having a pos or two around a system. Perhaps moving them to Sov 4 rather then Sov 3. And well 15million HP is insane. Either that or they should be bloody expensive, and require massive upkeep, you want the benefit then you should have to work for it. Anyway perhaps it tinfoil hattery but we will see what the next 4 weeks bring and how many of these effectively spring up across 0.0. But i forsee, every small tom **** and harry alliance spamming these everywhere, and not using them for their envisioned tactical purposes.
Jotan Veer HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:31:00 - [42] Originally by: CCP Oveur I believe you are confusing the destruction of them with the disabling of them. The structure gets a 90% resist bonus from the control tower, which you need to take out to destroy it. To disable it's effect, you simply need to go through the shield and armor, see patch notes. I believe you are confused Sir. To remedy this problem, you simply need to check the statistics of the Cynosural Generator Array, especially the Shield Capacity and the Armor Hitpoints entries. HUN Corp. recruitment status: frozen
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:33:00 - [43] Most of the replies seem to be taking the position of attacking the POS's. Please keep in mind that the POS is mainly a Defensive tool. Therefore they should be hard to kill. I've done a lot of POS fighting both before and after the patch. While I've seen the need for 100+ ships to kill off the remaining modules after a POS dies, I've also seen small numbers of ships camping a POS after all the guns were disabled. That was something that could not be done prior to the recent patch. Pre-Patch, you only attacked a POS when you KNEW you had enough Dreads to tank the damage. You only engaged those Dreads when you knew you had the system locked down by Support. Everything became 'how many dreads?' 'How many hardners?' 'Is system locked down?' Until these questions were answered sufficiently, nothing happened at all. When the prerquisites were in place, the POS simply became a speed bump - never killing anything and not being defended. It was the very definition of BORING. Now, small groups of ships can attack a gun or two and have an effect. Cyno Jammers/Jumpers can provide some safety in defending. People can shoot at Outpost facilites. All kinds of things are possible that were not before. For example, during the recent cleansing and restoration of Razor/MM space to its rightful owners, there was a POS on every single moon in oe-4. At the height of the battle, there was NOT A SINGLE GUN ONLINE AT ANY POS. Battles did occur during attempts to repair or destroy modules, and hostiles were literally camped in their own POS. It allowed for a nice, constant fight that involved everyone - something not possible during the prior Dread-only POS siege tactics. So I say I fully support the new rules. POS structures should be very, very hard to kill. Just be glad that you don't have to have a Dread to partake in territory conquest anymore.
Strategos Banned Society	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Butter Dog They are the first things you will need to knock out when attacking a POS. Please explain to me exactly how you can disable those things at a well armed deathstar without a massive fleet of battleships, in an acceptable timeframe? This just doesnt seem to be at all consistent in the context of 'reducing blob warfare'. It is going to make uberblobs 100% essential when everyone and their dog has cyno jammers up in system. And smaller alliances can FORGET IT, unless they want to lose repeated fleets. The only way to get around it without an uberblob is to rely on a crappy POS setup. waaawaaawaaa my gank squads can't take out a pos waaawaaawaaa You're hilarious BD. You should try learning to play as well. It doesn't take an uberblob to take out every pos deployed structure outside the shields, just smart people, which obviously, you aren't. ---Sig--- I am an arms dealer Fitting you with weapons in the form of words -F.O.B.
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:41:00 - [45] Originally by: Strategos Originally by: Butter Dog They are the first things you will need to knock out when attacking a POS. Please explain to me exactly how you can disable those things at a well armed deathstar without a massive fleet of battleships, in an acceptable timeframe? This just doesnt seem to be at all consistent in the context of 'reducing blob warfare'. It is going to make uberblobs 100% essential when everyone and their dog has cyno jammers up in system. And smaller alliances can FORGET IT, unless they want to lose repeated fleets. The only way to get around it without an uberblob is to rely on a crappy POS setup. waaawaaawaaa my gank squads can't take out a pos waaawaaawaaa You're hilarious BD. You should try learning to play as well. It doesn't take an uberblob to take out every pos deployed structure outside the shields, just smart people, which obviously, you aren't. Go run some more level 2 missions since aprently you have no freaking idea. So fare we have gunned down several pos's i think we know what it takes. Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:43:00 - [46] I dunno, the following setup would **** on someone's day: Large Gallente Tower 2x Warp Disruption Arrays 2x Stasis Webifier Arrays 6x Small Railgun 12x Medium Railgun 1x Cyno Field Disruptor Combine that with someone controlling guns, or even a small friendly fleet, and say bye bye to your attacking fleet. Tactics I can think of to take one out include: - Using small ships to make guns run out of ammo - Having a bunch of logistics ships, flying around remote repping The tactics do exist, but only for an unassisted POS. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Recursos Aliastra	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:44:00 - [47] Originally by: Butter Dog ..... stuff... And for people talking about the cyno jammer - the POS-owning alliance can simply use the jump portal to bring in carriers etc, making the BS blob needed to take the cyno jammer down frankly ridiculous. You do know that a Titan has to use a cyno in the arrival system to open a bridge right?
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:52:00 - [48] Originally by: Recursos Originally by: Butter Dog ..... stuff... And for people talking about the cyno jammer - the POS-owning alliance can simply use the jump portal to bring in carriers etc, making the BS blob needed to take the cyno jammer down frankly ridiculous. You do know that a Titan has to use a cyno in the arrival system to open a bridge right? you do know abut the jump portal strukture right? Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Recursos Aliastra	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:57:00 - [49] Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: Recursos Originally by: Butter Dog ..... stuff... And for people talking about the cyno jammer - the POS-owning alliance can simply use the jump portal to bring in carriers etc, making the BS blob needed to take the cyno jammer down frankly ridiculous. You do know that a Titan has to use a cyno in the arrival system to open a bridge right? you do know abut the jump portal strukture right? Are you talking about the Cynosural Generator Array?
xRazoRx The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:14:00 - [50] Edited by: xRazoRx on 17/07/2007 16:14:35 No chances of destoying a cloning service without a 50+ blob, as well. Small scale warfail this is. Death is only the beginning...

Azrael Bierce Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:23:00 - [51] Originally by: Recursos Are you talking about the Cynosural Generator Array? No, there's a jump bridge pos module now, that works just like the titan's jumpbridge but no cyno.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:25:00 - [52] Originally by: Flower Bear Hard for me to feel sympathy for your blob whining BD considering you brought 200 ISSN people to camp 36n to remove a SMALL Pos. I think the hp is fine and no decently organized alliance is going to have a problem mounting a suprise attack to take one down CCP said that these changes were being made in part to combat Blob Warfare. The point we're making is that this does to do that. It actively encourages blob warfare. It does the opposite of what it is claimed to do. I completely agree that no competent, large alliance will have a problem throwing together a 100+ blob for a suprise attack. Hardly the point though, is it. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Julian Kirov Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:28:00 - [53] Originally by: xRazoRx Edited by: xRazoRx on 17/07/2007 16:14:35 No chances of destoying a cloning service without a 50+ blob, as well. Small scale warfail this is. Haha, totally agreed! We were camping the fix station in 49- and decided that we'd go after the cloning station, hoping to pass the time and do something during the camp. At the start, with around 45-60 ships, mix of BS and below, the shield was repping faster than we could knock it down. We eventually had to get everyone to bring out more bs's, brought a dread, and finally, after an hour of wailing on it with around 75+ people, it died. some trying to discourage the blob :-/
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:29:00 - [54] I'm pretty sure that was just a graphics glitch, those things can't outregen anything afaik ;P http://eve.klaki.net/
Julian Kirov Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:42:00 - [55] that's good to hear, cause at the start, before we got more people, I was worried it's tank would never break!
Recursos Aliastra	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:42:00 - [56] Originally by: Azrael Bierce Originally by: Recursos Are you talking about the Cynosural Generator Array? No, there's a jump bridge pos module now, that works just like the titan's jumpbridge but no cyno. Oh.. Ok.. My mistake.. :)
The Beatnuts UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:44:00 - [57] I might be in RA although i'm a noob with POS working. If Alliance A has a POS in system with the "jump portal" it can bring capitals ships in it... right? even if there's a cyno jammer whatever it's called. Now, if alliance B puts up a POS in the system can it also get a "jump portal" to bring capitals in? Don't speak english - f1, f2, f3
Solid Wilko Minmatar InNova Tech Inc Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:49:00 - [58] Originally by: Butter Dog CCP said that these changes were being made in part to combat Blob Warfare. The point we're making is that this does to do that. It actively encourages blob warfare. It does the opposite of what it is claimed to do. I completely agree that no competent, large alliance will have a problem throwing together a 100+ blob for a suprise attack. Hardly the point though, is it. Ahh my misunderstanding. I guess my next question is then what do you think is a fair amount of HP and the required gang size to take one of these bad boys out?
Recursos Aliastra	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:51:00 - [59] Originally by: The Beatnuts I might be in RA although i'm a noob with POS working. If Alliance A has a POS in system with the "jump portal" it can bring capitals ships in it... right? even if there's a cyno jammer whatever it's called. Now, if alliance B puts up a POS in the system can it also get a "jump portal" to bring capitals in? I believe so...? Or do you need sov to put up cyno generators or bridge generators?
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:54:00 - [60] Originally by: Recursos Originally by: The Beatnuts I might be in RA although i'm a noob with POS working. If Alliance A has a POS in system with the "jump portal" it can bring capitals ships in it... right? even if there's a cyno jammer whatever it's called. Now, if alliance B puts up a POS in the system can it also get a "jump portal" to bring capitals in? I believe so...? Or do you need sov to put up cyno generators or bridge generators? you need sov Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.



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