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If you wanted to reduce blob warfare, why give Cyno Jammers 15m HP?

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Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.17 11:40:00 - [1] They are the first things you will need to knock out when attacking a POS. Please explain to me exactly how you can disable those things at a well armed deathstar without a massive fleet of battleships, in an acceptable timeframe? This just doesnt seem to be at all consistent in the context of 'reducing blob warfare'. It is going to make uberblobs 100% essential when everyone and their dog has cyno jammers up in system. And smaller alliances can FORGET IT, unless they want to lose repeated fleets. The only way to get around it without an uberblob is to rely on a crappy POS setup. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
midge Mo'yb Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.17 11:44:00 - [2] i dont htink the idea was for 15man corps to come topple a 1000+ man alliance.... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=557187ANTRS Recruitment Thread
Ozzie Asrail Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.17 11:46:00 - [3] Originally by: midge Mo'yb i dont htink the idea was for 15man corps to come topple a 1000+ man alliance.... If a 15man corp can topple 1000 man allaince jsut by shooting some pos structures and station services then good on them. All the new shootables have way too much hp imho. -----
Jason Marshall Hammer Of Light	Posted - 2007.07.17 11:48:00 - [4] Doesnt the cyno jump disable both friendly and hostile cynos? And im assuming thoose thigns are gunna be really expensive and wont be seen in all systems except for hte really big alliances. Tacky Lensflares in sigs ftw
midge Mo'yb Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.17 11:49:00 - [5] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Originally by: midge Mo'yb i dont htink the idea was for 15man corps to come topple a 1000+ man alliance.... If a 15man corp can topple 1000 man allaince jsut by shooting some pos structures and station services then good on them. All the new shootables have way too much hp imho. get a spy to offline the tower :P http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=557187ANTRS Recruitment Thread
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:00:00 - [6] Originally by: Jason Marshall Doesnt the cyno jump disable both friendly and hostile cynos? And im assuming thoose thigns are gunna be really expensive and wont be seen in all systems except for hte really big alliances. Doesn't prevent an alliance keeping 1-2 carriers setup to rep the pos; and not jumping them in/out. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!

CCP Oveur	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:12:00 - [7] I believe you are confusing the destruction of them with the disabling of them. The structure gets a 90% resist bonus from the control tower, which you need to take out to destroy it. To disable it's effect, you simply need to go through the shield and armor, see patch notes. Executive Producer EVE Online

BrainSeller BrainSeller Trade Consortium	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:24:00 - [8] Originally by: CCP Oveur [...]you simply need to go through the shield and armor. and how many hitpoint would that be?
Der Ewige Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:27:00 - [9] Originally by: BrainSeller Originally by: CCP Oveur [...]you simply need to go through the shield and armor. and how many hitpoint would that be? Shield Capacity 1000000 HP +Armor Hitpoints 15000000 HP ------------------------------------ = 16000000 HP ------- http://www.stillbruch.ch
Wardog 1 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:30:00 - [10] Well, the point of the POS changes, was in part to allow smaller gangs to disable POS yeah (fairly sure that was in a blog)? Logically then, by CCP laws of thought, increasing HP and adding new high HP modules, therefore making POS stronger, was exactly what needed to be done!
Geli Tetro Vanquish Inc	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Jason Marshall Doesnt the cyno jump disable both friendly and hostile cynos? And im assuming thoose thigns are gunna be really expensive and wont be seen in all systems except for hte really big alliances. The rumours I am hearing suggest that a Active Cyno Gen structure at a pos remains active even if a cyno jammer in system is online. I cant confirm this tho.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:38:00 - [12] There's a balance between small gangs and undefendable. By virtue of being a game you can't have a 23/7 sentry guard everywhere. Hence things have to hold up a gang of 30-40 long enough that a response force, if created, can actually arrive.
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:53:00 - [13] Originally by: James Duar There's a balance between small gangs and undefendable. By virtue of being a game you can't have a 23/7 sentry guard everywhere. Hence things have to hold up a gang of 30-40 long enough that a response force, if created, can actually arrive. pretty much yeah Some people may want to be able to disable these things with a few vagabonds in a few minutes, but others don't want to have all their stuff ninja-disabled at 3 AM.
Admiral Shallow Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:54:00 - [14] Originally by: Wardog 1 Well, the point of the POS changes, was in part to allow smaller gangs to disable POS yeah (fairly sure that was in a blog)? Logically then, by CCP laws of thought, increasing HP and adding new high HP modules, therefore making POS stronger, was exactly what needed to be done! BTW You Suck
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:14:00 - [15] Originally by: Bein Glorious Originally by: James Duar There's a balance between small gangs and undefendable. By virtue of being a game you can't have a 23/7 sentry guard everywhere. Hence things have to hold up a gang of 30-40 long enough that a response force, if created, can actually arrive. pretty much yeah Some people may want to be able to disable these things with a few vagabonds in a few minutes, but others don't want to have all their stuff ninja-disabled at 3 AM. Not that much. But 10 gank Battleships should be able to do the work BEFORE a huge blob if formed. So that defenders have to jump and defend.. therefore helping to sustain SMALL SCALE WARFARE. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Bein Glorious Originally by: James Duar There's a balance between small gangs and undefendable. By virtue of being a game you can't have a 23/7 sentry guard everywhere. Hence things have to hold up a gang of 30-40 long enough that a response force, if created, can actually arrive. pretty much yeah Some people may want to be able to disable these things with a few vagabonds in a few minutes, but others don't want to have all their stuff ninja-disabled at 3 AM. Not that much. But 10 gank Battleships should be able to do the work BEFORE a huge blob if formed. So that defenders have to jump and defend.. therefore helping to sustain SMALL SCALE WARFARE. But how long is this time in the first place? 10 minutes? 20? 30? And of course, if 10 can do it in time X, then 30 do it in time X/3 etc. etc.
Aegis Osiris Gallente Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Not that much. But 10 gank Battleships should be able to do the work BEFORE a huge blob if formed. So that defenders have to jump and defend.. therefore helping to sustain SMALL SCALE WARFARE. I'm all for adding or changing content to support smaller actions, but I need to disagree with you here. 10 gank BS should not be able to disable one of these unless A) the system being attacked is nearly empty and remains so B) the alliance being attacked are utter, total, helpless, mewling kitten-n00bs I think the hp on the cyno jammers are fine....but I do NOT think they should be POS structures. They should have to be anchored in space, and a beacon made visable (I would say mount near the sun, with NO beacon, but lag could be unpleasant). The hp ensures that only a fairly serious gang can kill it in short order, while not being at a POS reduces lag and makes it possible for a good sized gang that ISN'T a megablob to do the job. Without the POS, 15 mil hp doesn't really last all that long to BS fire. But long enough to mount some defense. ________________________________________________ This thread does not exist Sig in process....
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:34:00 - [18] Originally by: CCP Oveur I believe you are confusing the destruction of them with the disabling of them. The structure gets a 90% resist bonus from the control tower, which you need to take out to destroy it. To disable it's effect, you simply need to go through the shield and armor, see patch notes. Once you realize how embarrassing this post is, I fully expect this thread to mysteriously disappear.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Aegis Osiris Originally by: Kagura Nikon Not that much. But 10 gank Battleships should be able to do the work BEFORE a huge blob if formed. So that defenders have to jump and defend.. therefore helping to sustain SMALL SCALE WARFARE. I'm all for adding or changing content to support smaller actions, but I need to disagree with you here. 10 gank BS should not be able to disable one of these unless A) the system being attacked is nearly empty and remains so B) the alliance being attacked are utter, total, helpless, mewling kitten-n00bs I think the hp on the cyno jammers are fine....but I do NOT think they should be POS structures. They should have to be anchored in space, and a beacon made visable (I would say mount near the sun, with NO beacon, but lag could be unpleasant). The hp ensures that only a fairly serious gang can kill it in short order, while not being at a POS reduces lag and makes it possible for a good sized gang that ISN'T a megablob to do the job. Without the POS, 15 mil hp doesn't really last all that long to BS fire. But long enough to mount some defense. But it's also an anti-capital blob tool. Having to engage at the POS means you have to commit to taking out the guns (generally) before targeting the jammer, which gives opportunities for fleet combat without fighter-swarms and smart bombing motherships etc. It gives some meaning to actually having a capital system.
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:44:00 - [20] its not like taking out the modules is anything permanent without taking down the pos itself. the modules take one point of structure damage and become invincible, but the pos remains with functional hardeners and anything but a small pos requires more then a battleship gang to take down quickly. if theres no followup to the module damage then the owning alliance can just rep the modules and everything goes back to normal, so there is no "ninja ganking" poses even now. of course i can totally understand why CCP made the hp so high, pre-nerfing to make sure the system worked before letting players take full advantage of the system. but now sov timers are kicking in and cyno jammers are starting to appear something needs to be done
Major Stormer Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:49:00 - [21] Originally by: Der Ewige Originally by: BrainSeller Originally by: CCP Oveur [...]you simply need to go through the shield and armor. and how many hitpoint would that be? Shield Capacity 1000000 HP +Armor Hitpoints 15000000 HP ------------------------------------ = 16000000 HP Posting in epic thread. --- We are Recuiting! If you have what it takes, click me! Oh yeah...click me....yeah...
Max Teranous Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:53:00 - [22] Originally by: CCP Oveur I believe you are confusing the destruction of them with the disabling of them. The structure gets a 90% resist bonus from the control tower, which you need to take out to destroy it. To disable it's effect, you simply need to go through the shield and armor, see patch notes. Quoting before the edit These bad boys have 15 mil armour HP's, so indeed it takes a fleet to disable one in a reasonable timeframe. A fleet without cap ship support, fighting at a deathstar POS that can have capital support of it's own. Hope they brought new pants Max --------------------
Astasia Orian Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:58:00 - [23] Edited by: Astasia Orian on 17/07/2007 13:58:36 Originally by: Bein Glorious Originally by: James Duar There's a balance between small gangs and undefendable. By virtue of being a game you can't have a 23/7 sentry guard everywhere. Hence things have to hold up a gang of 30-40 long enough that a response force, if created, can actually arrive. pretty much yeah Some people may want to be able to disable these things with a few vagabonds in a few minutes, but others don't want to have all their stuff ninja-disabled at 3 AM. ^^That Although I do believe that cyno jammers should be massively more expensive than they are. Billion+ for sure.
Calisto Cody Minmatar The Black Swan Society	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:00:00 - [24] lawl!! Originally by: "Orestes Umnon" An easy way to spot when isk farmers are mad: they stop using broken english and just start spamming boxes at you, with random punctuation sprinked here and there
Darpz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:02:00 - [25] lol someone chnaged something from the patch I tested these things were supposed to be fragile thats the idea behind them.
Ampoliros Phantom Knights	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Geli Tetro Originally by: Jason Marshall Doesnt the cyno jump disable both friendly and hostile cynos? And im assuming thoose thigns are gunna be really expensive and wont be seen in all systems except for hte really big alliances. The rumours I am hearing suggest that a Active Cyno Gen structure at a pos remains active even if a cyno jammer in system is online. I cant confirm this tho. Both are supposed to be shut down. Quote: Cynosural System Jammers prevent the formation of new cynosural fields in the system, and force existing fields to collapse at the end of their cycle. This applies to fields generated by both modules and structures. It takes 30 minutes to bring online or offline.... But, I suppose if you have the system sov you could shut down the cyno scrambler, set up the field, jump what you need in, and then shut it back off again. ------------------------------------
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:10:00 - [27] Are you sure cynojammers would shut down cynotowers? Would make the jammer practically useless for core systems. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Jack Archer Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:17:00 - [28] Btw Cyno Jammers do broadcast a beacon. Lime green. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ no not belivin in urself
Mogrin Caldari Spartan Fleet Systems	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:19:00 - [29] Originally by: midge Mo'yb i dont htink the idea was for 15man corps to come topple a 1000+ man alliance.... If a 1000+ man alliance needs to rely on a deathstar to tank 15 man corps then they should probably cide irl right now. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion Originally by: CCP Arkanon We're a company of professionals, not some LAN party gone bad. Thats one theory.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:29:00 - [30] Originally by: CCP Oveur I believe you are confusing the destruction of them with the disabling of them. The structure gets a 90% resist bonus from the control tower, which you need to take out to destroy it. To disable it's effect, you simply need to go through the shield and armor, see patch notes. I know this. That is why I talked about 15m hitpoints (ie, its armor). You clearly know how long this will take to chew through 15m armor in just battleships, and how many you will need. If you then factor in a well-armed Deathstar setup, which is what your little battleships will be up against, you enter the realms of the 'uberblob'. Because you have to expect that a portion of your battleships will die to POS guns. I'm all for structures outside the tower, but 15m HP is absoultely ridiculous and forces the use of uberblobs to get anything done. And for people talking about the cyno jammer - the POS-owning alliance can simply use the jump portal to bring in carriers etc, making the BS blob needed to take the cyno jammer down frankly ridiculous. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])

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