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Change the Ishtar's drone control range bonus.

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murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.20 00:59:00 - [1] It's a non-bonus. I can fit one drone link augmentor and get 20km increased drone range, the same as having HAC 4. Every other HAC gets four useful bonuses, while the Ishtar only has two: Drone bay bonus and Drone HP/DPS bonus. The Eagle for example: 2x range bonuses (effective damage buff due to using better ammo at longer ranges), damage bonus, and a tanking bonus (resists). Cerberus: missle damage bonus, missile speed (even better than a simple range bonus, allows your missiles to catch interceptors etc.), another damage bonus (ROF), and yet another range bonus, allowing you to hit with Heavy Assault Missiles at very reasonable ranges. Because there are not any modules to increase missile effective range, these range bonuses are far more valuable than the Ishtar's drone control range bonus. Sacrilege: range, cap use, resist and damage bonus. All usefull. You could argue that the medium laser damage bonus is useless on the Sac, but you could also argue that the Med Hybrid damage bonus on the Ishtar is just as useless. Zealot: 4x offensive bonuses: range, damage, ROF and tracking bonuses. Great stuff. All four are useful. Muninn: ROF, damage, range and tracking. Again, really useful. Vagabond: it's a Vaga. Do I really need to spell it out? ROF, Speed, falloff range and damage. The best combination of any four bonuses on any HAC in the game. Bar none. Deimos: fitting issues aside: damage, mwd cap use bonus, falloff bonus and damage bonus again. Pretty good stuff, as far as bonuses go. This thread is not a discussion about what is the best HAC, or what works and what doesn't. It's about the bonuses and about how the Ishtar gets cheated out of a real 4th bonus. Heck, you could even argue that the Ishtar is really lacking TWO effective bonuses, as medium turrets are almost useless on an Ishtar, but the same could be said for a Sacrilege as well. I think that any of these bonuses would be a suitable replacement for the useless drone control range bonus: Armor repair bonus: 5% per level. Not as much as a battlecruiser (7.5%), it would still be an effective bonus, and one that would contribute to the ship. Armor resistance bonus: why not? Other ships already get a 5% resist bonus to their tanks (Eagle, Sac). It's already a proven bonus. Share it with the Ishtar. Double drone damage bonus. Other ships have double bonuses to damage as well. Why not the Ishtar? Make the HAC second bonus a +5% drone damage bonus (no HP bonus increase). Every other HAC, with the possible exception of the Sacrilege, has four viable and useful bonuses. The Ishtar is the only one with a bonus (two useless bonuses actually) that really contributes nothing to the design. Originally by: LMAAAOOOO iteron mark v is good cos it can fit a gun and can fit lots of ammo same time
Outa Rileau	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:02:00 - [2] Edited by: Outa Rileau on 20/07/2007 01:01:46 don't claim that a former fotm needs a boost. This ship is still quite good, and i'm sure alot of other ships are in a more dire need of rescue from sh*tty bonuses/general suckage. ------------------------- Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000
xHalcyonx Amarr EmpiresMod Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:03:00 - [3] It's fine as is. Use sentry drones to gain the benefit. I also can't help but laugh at you sig. Go ***** about something useful, like buffing Amarr, but not about buffing the already dominant PvP race. kthxbai.
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:03:00 - [4] /signed. Repair amount bonus plx
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Endgame.	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:07:00 - [5] Originally by: Horza Otho /signed. Repair amount bonus plx gonner jump on this one! or a thermal dmg drone bonus My Personal Killboard
PWNERIZE	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:10:00 - [6] Want to do something useful? Ask for a buff to the Deimos. That would make sense. The Ishtar is already one of the better HACs.
Siakel	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:17:00 - [7] Originally by: murder one Zealot: 4x offensive bonuses: range, damage, ROF and tracking bonuses. Great stuff. All four are useful. How come my Zealot doesn't have a tracking bonus?
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:18:00 - [8] Edited by: Incantare on 20/07/2007 01:19:55 Cerb gets a damage bonus yes, a kinetic damage bonus. Which is about as useful as drone control range.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:21:00 - [9] Originally by: PWNERIZE Want to do something useful? Ask for a buff to the Deimos. That would make sense. The Ishtar is already one of the better HACs. The cool thing about posts is that if people actually read them, then they can respond intelligently to the ideas already put forth by various brilliant minds such as myself. I clearly stated that this thread is not about 'what is the best HAC', or 'what really works in PVP'. It's about the bonuses. The Deimos has very good bonuses, it simply has other issues (fitting). The Ishtar actually has it's own fitting issues (thank you Tuxford for the t2 EANM CPU increase, yet AGAIN) but this thread is not about that. It's about the bonuses. Clearly the Ishtar's drone control range bonus is the most useless and redundant bonus of all time. It can easily be replaced (and in fact completely overcome with just two modules) by modules and rigs, something that the Cerb's missile range bonus can not. If the control range bonus were replaced by a DRONE SPEED BONUS of say, 20% per level, now THAT would be something worth looking at. Hell, I think that's brilliant. I recind all my previous suggestions. Make it a 20% drone speed bonus and I'll be content. Originally by: LMAAAOOOO iteron mark v is good cos it can fit a gun and can fit lots of ammo same time
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:24:00 - [10] Originally by: Siakel Originally by: murder one Zealot: 4x offensive bonuses: range, damage, ROF and tracking bonuses. Great stuff. All four are useful. How come my Zealot doesn't have a tracking bonus? My bad, fixed. was thinking of the Muninn (of course). Originally by: LMAAAOOOO iteron mark v is good cos it can fit a gun and can fit lots of ammo same time
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:26:00 - [11] Edited by: murder one on 20/07/2007 01:26:14 Originally by: Incantare Edited by: Incantare on 20/07/2007 01:19:55 Cerb gets a damage bonus yes, a kinetic damage bonus. Which is about as useful as drone control range. Kinetic is extremely useful. I use kinetic damage as the damage of choice ALL the time. Ever try and kill a mission running Raven who is tanking Sansha rats? Kinetic damage is awesome. You're just not using it correctly. Originally by: LMAAAOOOO iteron mark v is good cos it can fit a gun and can fit lots of ammo same time
PWNERIZE	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:29:00 - [12] Originally by: murder one Originally by: PWNERIZE Want to do something useful? Ask for a buff to the Deimos. That would make sense. The Ishtar is already one of the better HACs. The cool thing about posts is that if people actually read them, then they can respond intelligently to the ideas already put forth by various brilliant minds such as myself. I clearly stated that this thread is not about 'what is the best HAC', or 'what really works in PVP'. It's about the bonuses. The Deimos has very good bonuses, it simply has other issues (fitting). The Ishtar actually has it's own fitting issues (thank you Tuxford for the t2 EANM CPU increase, yet AGAIN) but this thread is not about that. It's about the bonuses. Clearly the Ishtar's drone control range bonus is the most useless and redundant bonus of all time. It can easily be replaced (and in fact completely overcome with just two modules) by modules and rigs, something that the Cerb's missile range bonus can not. If the control range bonus were replaced by a DRONE SPEED BONUS of say, 20% per level, now THAT would be something worth looking at. Hell, I think that's brilliant. I recind all my previous suggestions. Make it a 20% drone speed bonus and I'll be content. Only looking at the bonuses yes drone control range is not amazing however ships aren't balanced based only on how good their bonuses are. Actual performance in PvP is meaningful. That said drone speed or something similar is something I could get behind. Rep amount is not as the ship does not need it to compete.
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:43:00 - [13] Originally by: murder one Kinetic is extremely useful. I use kinetic damage as the damage of choice ALL the time. Ever try and kill a mission running Raven who is tanking Sansha rats? Kinetic damage is awesome. You're just not using it correctly. Is Kinetic usually the main hole on shields? No. How about armor? No, though it works well. What does that mean? That when I'm firing kinetic on a shield tank, I'm almost always better off firing em or therm. And against most armor tankers, explo performs at least as well even without the bonus. I don't buy your argument on killing mission runners because I could make the same argument for killing mission runners fighting guristas and conclude an EM bonus is good. Though I'm not arguing kinetic is not a good damage type to deal. But compared to a missile damage bonus (as your opening post states) a kinetic missile damage bonus is extremely limited.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:44:00 - [14] erm what you actually miss is that many boni can be replaced by just one module/rig. for example the resist bonus from the drake is less than one invulnerability field, there are boost augmentors, there are damage augmentors and that kinda stuff. so actually it's not unfair tho i have to admit few pilots will make use of the range bonus in pvp. in pvm on the other hand that bonus is pretty nice. oh and it's a bit unfair to say the amarr laser cap bonus is a plus as they simply need it to not run dry after just firing 2 shots.
Alyssee	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:56:00 - [15] "The elite" ROFL. At least you're not flying a NosDomi. As a Gallente player you have no right to complain. Your race is leaps and bounds ahead of Amarr.
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:57:00 - [16] Originally by: Shiken Kan erm what you actually miss is that many boni can be replaced by just one module/rig. for example the resist bonus from the drake is less than one invulnerability field, there are boost augmentors, there are damage augmentors and that kinda stuff. so actually it's not unfair tho i have to admit few pilots will make use of the range bonus in pvp. in pvm on the other hand that bonus is pretty nice. oh and it's a bit unfair to say the amarr laser cap bonus is a plus as they simply need it to not run dry after just firing 2 shots. I'd rather give the drake a ROF bonus, but its resistance bonus is not the same as an invuln field. It doesn't stacking nerf with invuln fields which makes it better. Drone control range mods don't stack, so getting that bonus with the ship is less useful. _____ CPU Love
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Alyssee "The elite" ROFL. At least you're not flying a NosDomi. As a Gallente player you have no right to complain. Your race is leaps and bounds ahead of Amarr. I'm pretty sure his sig refers to his megathron thread where he went over how expensive it was to get a neutron mega to fit the way he wanted to. He doesn't mean elite as in best, but elite as in highly skilled as in he had to train all kinds of skills to 5 to make his fit work. I may be mistaken, however. _____ CPU Love
Alyssee	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:09:00 - [18] Megas are still some of the most common battleships post nerf which is why I find it funny he would consider himself part of the elite. Now Typhoon pilots, that's an elite. The same could be said of Abaddon pilots. Apoc pilots, well those are ******s. But megas are far too common to be "elite". Their pilots have adapted but this one chose to whine on the forums instead.
Professor Mustache Mustache University	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:17:00 - [19] ahh yes, i quite enjoyed the bit where you suggest we ignore the spin you put on the facts to skew them. I agree, we need to buff already excellent ships!
StephanieLazyTown	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:19:00 - [20] clearly the ishtar is the ship that needs a boost THE MOST- no one EVER flys these things
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:21:00 - [21] Originally by: StephanieLazyTown clearly the ishtar is the ship that needs a boost THE MOST- no one EVER flys these things I buy them to reprocess for profit. _____ CPU Love
Czcibor Przemo Crimson Logistics	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:23:00 - [22] This thread is now about Chocolate ice cream and how to improve it. Sure Vanilla has it's strong points but ignore that ok guys?
PWNERIZE	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:27:00 - [23] Strawberry and pistachio ice cream ITT!
Czcibor Przemo Crimson Logistics	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:28:00 - [24] I clearly stated that this thread was strictly about chocolate ice cream.
PWNERIZE	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:31:00 - [25] Chocolate is an established flavor, pistachio is more of an underdog. Shouldn't we improve pistachio before worrying about chocolate?
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:31:00 - [26] It is a crap bonus, but having flown one for /so/ long, I can still say its the best non-vagabond hac (Vaga dont count, in all honesty). It doesnt need changing for the sake of balance, at all, so anything that improves its efficacy in combat is out (eg rep and damage bonuses). So, something that improves drone versatility but isnt a significant damage, EW or tanking. How about Drone MWD speed, or slightly better, all drone speeds + tracking (so as orbit doesnt nerf their damage). I could get on board with those changes. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
Mr Krosis The humble Crew Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:33:00 - [27] I love the idea of a speed bonus, but I think 20% per lvl would be a little overpowering. Maybe 5-10% per level, but make it a bonus to both drone velocity and drone tracking speed so people don't call it a nerf -- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
PWNERIZE	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:33:00 - [28] Originally by: El Yatta It is a crap bonus, but having flown one for /so/ long, I can still say its the best non-vagabond hac (Vaga dont count, in all honesty). It doesnt need changing for the sake of balance, at all, so anything that improves its efficacy in combat is out (eg rep and damage bonuses). So, something that improves drone versatility but isnt a significant damage, EW or tanking. How about Drone MWD speed, or slightly better, all drone speeds + tracking (so as orbit doesnt nerf their damage). I could get on board with those changes. That opinion sounds familiar. Are you single?
Czcibor Przemo Crimson Logistics	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:34:00 - [29] Originally by: PWNERIZE Chocolate is an established flavor, pistachio is more of an underdog. Shouldn't we improve pistachio before worrying about chocolate? improving good and estabilished things is the theme of this thread.
Litus Arowar Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:37:00 - [30] murder one's back everyone! I personally prefer marble strawberry icecream... it's delicious and looks totally sexy Benn Helmsman> Could a mod give this guy a snip for constant insulting without giving any point to the topic?

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