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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.20 00:59:00 -
[1]
It's a non-bonus. I can fit one drone link augmentor and get 20km increased drone range, the same as having HAC 4. Every other HAC gets four useful bonuses, while the Ishtar only has two: Drone bay bonus and Drone HP/DPS bonus.
The Eagle for example: 2x range bonuses (effective damage buff due to using better ammo at longer ranges), damage bonus, and a tanking bonus (resists).
Cerberus: missle damage bonus, missile speed (even better than a simple range bonus, allows your missiles to catch interceptors etc.), another damage bonus (ROF), and yet another range bonus, allowing you to hit with Heavy Assault Missiles at very reasonable ranges. Because there are not any modules to increase missile effective range, these range bonuses are far more valuable than the Ishtar's drone control range bonus.
Sacrilege: range, cap use, resist and damage bonus. All usefull. You could argue that the medium laser damage bonus is useless on the Sac, but you could also argue that the Med Hybrid damage bonus on the Ishtar is just as useless.
Zealot: 4x offensive bonuses: range, damage, ROF and tracking bonuses. Great stuff. All four are useful.
Muninn: ROF, damage, range and tracking. Again, really useful.
Vagabond: it's a Vaga. Do I really need to spell it out? ROF, Speed, falloff range and damage. The best combination of any four bonuses on any HAC in the game. Bar none.
Deimos: fitting issues aside: damage, mwd cap use bonus, falloff bonus and damage bonus again. Pretty good stuff, as far as bonuses go.
This thread is not a discussion about what is the best HAC, or what works and what doesn't. It's about the bonuses and about how the Ishtar gets cheated out of a real 4th bonus. Heck, you could even argue that the Ishtar is really lacking TWO effective bonuses, as medium turrets are almost useless on an Ishtar, but the same could be said for a Sacrilege as well.
I think that any of these bonuses would be a suitable replacement for the useless drone control range bonus:
Armor repair bonus: 5% per level. Not as much as a battlecruiser (7.5%), it would still be an effective bonus, and one that would contribute to the ship.
Armor resistance bonus: why not? Other ships already get a 5% resist bonus to their tanks (Eagle, Sac). It's already a proven bonus. Share it with the Ishtar.
Double drone damage bonus. Other ships have double bonuses to damage as well. Why not the Ishtar? Make the HAC second bonus a +5% drone damage bonus (no HP bonus increase).
Every other HAC, with the possible exception of the Sacrilege, has four viable and useful bonuses. The Ishtar is the only one with a bonus (two useless bonuses actually) that really contributes nothing to the design.
Originally by: LMAAAOOOO iteron mark v is good cos it can fit a gun and can fit lots of ammo same time
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Outa Rileau
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:02:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Outa Rileau on 20/07/2007 01:01:46 don't claim that a former fotm needs a boost. This ship is still quite good, and i'm sure alot of other ships are in a more dire need of rescue from sh*tty bonuses/general suckage.
------------------------- Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000
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xHalcyonx
Amarr EmpiresMod Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:03:00 -
[3]
It's fine as is. Use sentry drones to gain the benefit. I also can't help but laugh at you sig. Go ***** about something useful, like buffing Amarr, but not about buffing the already dominant PvP race. kthxbai.
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Horza Otho
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:03:00 -
[4]
/signed.
Repair amount bonus plx
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Chode Rizoum
Minmatar Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:07:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Horza Otho /signed.
Repair amount bonus plx
gonner jump on this one!
or a thermal dmg drone bonus
My Personal Killboard |
PWNERIZE
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:10:00 -
[6]
Want to do something useful? Ask for a buff to the Deimos. That would make sense. The Ishtar is already one of the better HACs.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:17:00 -
[7]
Originally by: murder one
Zealot: 4x offensive bonuses: range, damage, ROF and tracking bonuses. Great stuff. All four are useful.
How come my Zealot doesn't have a tracking bonus?
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Incantare
Caldari Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:18:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Incantare on 20/07/2007 01:19:55 Cerb gets a damage bonus yes, a kinetic damage bonus. Which is about as useful as drone control range.
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: PWNERIZE Want to do something useful? Ask for a buff to the Deimos. That would make sense. The Ishtar is already one of the better HACs.
The cool thing about posts is that if people actually read them, then they can respond intelligently to the ideas already put forth by various brilliant minds such as myself.
I clearly stated that this thread is *not* about 'what is the best HAC', or 'what really works in PVP'. It's about the bonuses.
The Deimos has very good bonuses, it simply has other issues (fitting). The Ishtar actually has it's own fitting issues (thank you Tuxford for the t2 EANM CPU increase, yet AGAIN) but this thread is not about that. It's about the bonuses.
Clearly the Ishtar's drone control range bonus is *the* most useless and redundant bonus of all time. It can easily be replaced (and in fact completely overcome with just two modules) by modules and rigs, something that the Cerb's missile range bonus can not.
If the control range bonus were replaced by a DRONE SPEED BONUS of say, 20% per level, now THAT would be something worth looking at. Hell, I think that's brilliant. I recind all my previous suggestions. Make it a 20% drone speed bonus and I'll be content.
Originally by: LMAAAOOOO iteron mark v is good cos it can fit a gun and can fit lots of ammo same time
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Siakel
Originally by: murder one
Zealot: 4x offensive bonuses: range, damage, ROF and tracking bonuses. Great stuff. All four are useful.
How come my Zealot doesn't have a tracking bonus?
My bad, fixed. was thinking of the Muninn (of course).
Originally by: LMAAAOOOO iteron mark v is good cos it can fit a gun and can fit lots of ammo same time
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:26:00 -
[11]
Edited by: murder one on 20/07/2007 01:26:14
Originally by: Incantare Edited by: Incantare on 20/07/2007 01:19:55 Cerb gets a damage bonus yes, a kinetic damage bonus. Which is about as useful as drone control range.
Kinetic is extremely useful. I use kinetic damage as the damage of choice *ALL* the time. Ever try and kill a mission running Raven who is tanking Sansha rats? Kinetic damage is awesome. You're just not using it correctly.
Originally by: LMAAAOOOO iteron mark v is good cos it can fit a gun and can fit lots of ammo same time
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PWNERIZE
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:29:00 -
[12]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: PWNERIZE Want to do something useful? Ask for a buff to the Deimos. That would make sense. The Ishtar is already one of the better HACs.
The cool thing about posts is that if people actually read them, then they can respond intelligently to the ideas already put forth by various brilliant minds such as myself.
I clearly stated that this thread is *not* about 'what is the best HAC', or 'what really works in PVP'. It's about the bonuses.
The Deimos has very good bonuses, it simply has other issues (fitting). The Ishtar actually has it's own fitting issues (thank you Tuxford for the t2 EANM CPU increase, yet AGAIN) but this thread is not about that. It's about the bonuses.
Clearly the Ishtar's drone control range bonus is *the* most useless and redundant bonus of all time. It can easily be replaced (and in fact completely overcome with just two modules) by modules and rigs, something that the Cerb's missile range bonus can not.
If the control range bonus were replaced by a DRONE SPEED BONUS of say, 20% per level, now THAT would be something worth looking at. Hell, I think that's brilliant. I recind all my previous suggestions. Make it a 20% drone speed bonus and I'll be content.
Only looking at the bonuses yes drone control range is not amazing however ships aren't balanced based only on how good their bonuses are. Actual performance in PvP is meaningful. That said drone speed or something similar is something I could get behind. Rep amount is not as the ship does not need it to compete.
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Incantare
Caldari Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: murder one
Kinetic is extremely useful. I use kinetic damage as the damage of choice *ALL* the time. Ever try and kill a mission running Raven who is tanking Sansha rats? Kinetic damage is awesome. You're just not using it correctly.
Is Kinetic usually the main hole on shields? No. How about armor? No, though it works well. What does that mean? That when I'm firing kinetic on a shield tank, I'm almost always better off firing em or therm. And against most armor tankers, explo performs at least as well even without the bonus.
I don't buy your argument on killing mission runners because I could make the same argument for killing mission runners fighting guristas and conclude an EM bonus is good.
Though I'm not arguing kinetic is not a good damage type to deal. But compared to a missile damage bonus (as your opening post states) a kinetic missile damage bonus is extremely limited.
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Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:44:00 -
[14]
erm what you actually miss is that many boni can be replaced by just one module/rig. for example the resist bonus from the drake is less than one invulnerability field, there are boost augmentors, there are damage augmentors and that kinda stuff. so actually it's not unfair tho i have to admit few pilots will make use of the range bonus in pvp. in pvm on the other hand that bonus is pretty nice. oh and it's a bit unfair to say the amarr laser cap bonus is a plus as they simply need it to not run dry after just firing 2 shots.
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Alyssee
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:56:00 -
[15]
"The elite" ROFL. At least you're not flying a NosDomi. As a Gallente player you have no right to complain. Your race is leaps and bounds ahead of Amarr.
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:57:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shiken Kan erm what you actually miss is that many boni can be replaced by just one module/rig. for example the resist bonus from the drake is less than one invulnerability field, there are boost augmentors, there are damage augmentors and that kinda stuff. so actually it's not unfair tho i have to admit few pilots will make use of the range bonus in pvp. in pvm on the other hand that bonus is pretty nice. oh and it's a bit unfair to say the amarr laser cap bonus is a plus as they simply need it to not run dry after just firing 2 shots.
I'd rather give the drake a ROF bonus, but its resistance bonus is not the same as an invuln field. It doesn't stacking nerf with invuln fields which makes it better.
Drone control range mods don't stack, so getting that bonus with the ship is less useful. _____ CPU Love |
Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Alyssee "The elite" ROFL. At least you're not flying a NosDomi. As a Gallente player you have no right to complain. Your race is leaps and bounds ahead of Amarr.
I'm pretty sure his sig refers to his megathron thread where he went over how expensive it was to get a neutron mega to fit the way he wanted to. He doesn't mean elite as in best, but elite as in highly skilled as in he had to train all kinds of skills to 5 to make his fit work.
I may be mistaken, however. _____ CPU Love |
Alyssee
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:09:00 -
[18]
Megas are still some of the most common battleships post nerf which is why I find it funny he would consider himself part of the elite.
Now Typhoon pilots, that's an elite. The same could be said of Abaddon pilots. Apoc pilots, well those are ******s. But megas are far too common to be "elite". Their pilots have adapted but this one chose to whine on the forums instead.
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Professor Mustache
Mustache University
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:17:00 -
[19]
ahh yes, i quite enjoyed the bit where you suggest we ignore the spin you put on the facts to skew them.
I agree, we need to buff already excellent ships!
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StephanieLazyTown
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:19:00 -
[20]
clearly the ishtar is the ship that needs a boost THE MOST-
no one EVER flys these things
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: StephanieLazyTown clearly the ishtar is the ship that needs a boost THE MOST-
no one EVER flys these things
I buy them to reprocess for profit. _____ CPU Love |
Czcibor Przemo
Crimson Logistics
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:23:00 -
[22]
This thread is now about Chocolate ice cream and how to improve it. Sure Vanilla has it's strong points but ignore that ok guys?
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PWNERIZE
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:27:00 -
[23]
Strawberry and pistachio ice cream ITT!
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Czcibor Przemo
Crimson Logistics
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:28:00 -
[24]
I clearly stated that this thread was strictly about chocolate ice cream.
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PWNERIZE
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:31:00 -
[25]
Chocolate is an established flavor, pistachio is more of an underdog. Shouldn't we improve pistachio before worrying about chocolate?
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:31:00 -
[26]
It is a crap bonus, but having flown one for /so/ long, I can still say its the best non-vagabond hac (Vaga dont count, in all honesty). It doesnt need changing for the sake of balance, at all, so anything that improves its efficacy in combat is out (eg rep and damage bonuses). So, something that improves drone versatility but isnt a significant damage, EW or tanking. How about Drone MWD speed, or slightly better, all drone speeds + tracking (so as orbit doesnt nerf their damage). I could get on board with those changes. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected]) |
Mr Krosis
The humble Crew Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:33:00 -
[27]
I love the idea of a speed bonus, but I think 20% per lvl would be a little overpowering. Maybe 5-10% per level, but make it a bonus to both drone velocity and drone tracking speed so people don't call it a nerf
-- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. |
PWNERIZE
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: El Yatta It is a crap bonus, but having flown one for /so/ long, I can still say its the best non-vagabond hac (Vaga dont count, in all honesty). It doesnt need changing for the sake of balance, at all, so anything that improves its efficacy in combat is out (eg rep and damage bonuses). So, something that improves drone versatility but isnt a significant damage, EW or tanking. How about Drone MWD speed, or slightly better, all drone speeds + tracking (so as orbit doesnt nerf their damage). I could get on board with those changes.
That opinion sounds familiar. Are you single?
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Czcibor Przemo
Crimson Logistics
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: PWNERIZE Chocolate is an established flavor, pistachio is more of an underdog. Shouldn't we improve pistachio before worrying about chocolate?
improving good and estabilished things is the theme of this thread.
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Litus Arowar
Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:37:00 -
[30]
murder one's back everyone!
I personally prefer marble strawberry icecream... it's delicious and looks totally sexy
Benn Helmsman> Could a mod give this guy a snip for constant insulting without giving any point to the topic? |
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William Hamilton
Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:43:00 -
[31]
CCP HELP!
I can fit 4 signal distortion amps on a scorpion abd it's better than having the ship bonus at level 5!
PLS give scorp +50% ecm strength per level!11111!11
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xHalcyonx
Amarr EmpiresMod Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.07.20 03:15:00 -
[32]
Needs more Bluebell. ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn |
Corwain
Gallente Kamite
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Posted - 2007.07.20 03:50:00 -
[33]
Originally by: William Hamilton CCP HELP!
I can fit 4 signal distortion amps on a scorpion abd it's better than having the ship bonus at level 5!
PLS give scorp +50% ecm strength per level!11111!11
Right, 4 loslots that are vital slots on a Scorp, vs 1 non-turret hislot on a droneboat that doesn't really use his hislots for anything really.
I can see how it relates, really...
And yes, his sig refers to the fact that to fit a Neutron plate mega with decent resists you need to have very expensive implants, faction gear, and insane SPs and even then it will get killed by the first nos-heavy low SP ship of equal class that comes along.
Unlike, say, a Vaga or Curse or Huggin with snakes that allow you to keep your expensive investment intact.
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steveid
Templar Securities and Holdings Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 04:13:00 -
[34]
i hear what you are saying and in a way your correct but atm its already a fairly overpowered ship due to its amazing versatility.
Makes a great lvl 4 ship, good tank ship, good speed fit ship, the last thing it needs really is a boost.
If i HAD to pick another bonus for it that would make it inline with other ships the only one that i could think if that wouldn't overpower it is an increase per level in drone speed.
Drone speed would be a nice addition imo, make level 4's a little easier and make a speed tanked ishtar able to move with ogre II's instead of having to either dropoff or use mediums.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.07.20 04:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 20/07/2007 01:23:20 It's a non-bonus. I can fit one drone link augmentor and get 20km increased drone range, the same as having HAC 4. Every other HAC gets four useful bonuses, while the Ishtar only has two: Drone bay bonus and Drone HP/DPS bonus. [snip]
What the hell is wrong with you? Please stop doing this, it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
The Ishtar is one of the most damaging HACs, it gets two damage bonuses[more drones=more damage], and a damage bonus to a secondary weapon[hybrids]. The freaking ship does more damage, with better damage types, with a better tank, at all ranges, with no cap use, without even fitting any freaking guns, than a Zealot.
It performs similarly compared to all other HACs but the Deimos and the Muninn. And you are complaining that one of its bonuses isnt perfectly in tune with the ship?
Go away, you arent helping.
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Mr Rourke
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Posted - 2007.07.20 04:32:00 -
[36]
of all of the HACs the Ishtar is the only one that uses BS sized weapon systems. It doesn't need a double damage bonus. A range bonus is present on each sheep, the Ishtar does not need to be an exception.
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:44:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mr Rourke of all of the HACs the Ishtar is the only one that uses BS sized weapon systems. It doesn't need a double damage bonus. A range bonus is present on each sheep, the Ishtar does not need to be an exception.
I've heard this BS sized weapon thing before, if heavy drones are battleship class, why is their signature resolution the same as medium turrets?
Anyway, personally I'd settle for 5% drone MWD speed per HAC level instead of 5km range. Medium hybrid bonus can stay where it is for all I care. So my drones can fly 77km? whoopdefreakindooo, too bad it takes them over a minute to get there, at which point they forget what they're doing and spend a minute coming back while getting killed because I can't recall them fast enough. Remember the ishtar's metaphorical guns can be shot down, smartbombed, bugged, left behind, etc, a modest boost to their speed instead of range would go a long way without making the ship itself any better (because let's face it, it's so good it's almost cheating).
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
mikaelim
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:48:00 -
[38]
Edited by: mikaelim on 20/07/2007 07:49:15 Well i could agree that this bonus isnt hot at all. On the other side you claim zealot is fine. (although zealot misses 1 bonus and sac arguably 2) So from that point i just have to ask me if you are a little biased?
I don't really get it how is a bonus so that you are actually able to use your racial guns better than drone control range? How is it "great stuff" or "useful" as you put it in contrast to others being able to use their weapons anyway and getting extra-tracking, range or tank. You speak as if you had never flown an amarr ship. If that is the case i think you are a little bit fast with stating that only ishtar needs help, aren't you?
Also you decide to ignore reality in the first place:
"This thread is not a discussion about what is the best HAC, or what works and what doesn't."
Yes it is lol. You are just saying you want your ship improved no matter what the consequenses are for game balance. But that is just wrong. Ishtar might have one not so great bonus but it's still 2nd best hac. Now giving it insane boosts like another dmg bonus (how can you even *think* of it - 5 x double bonused t2 heavies on a cruiser - what did you smoke?) or a tank bonus would just make it too good. Quite obvious and you know it.
Point is you are crying all day about how overpowered nos is and how curse should be nerfed etc although its really the only strong ship amarr have. On the other hand you come here and whine for making some of the best of your ships even better. You are just working on your agenda to get even easier kills. Maybe get some skills?
And as somebody else said Deimos need real love. Your Mega-whine was really ok and i think it has problems. But ishtar? Thats over the top. And about half of minnie/amarr/caldari could need some too way more urgently than any gallente ship.
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: mikaelim Well i could agree that this bonus isnt hot at all. On the other side you claim zealot is fine. (although zealot misses 1 bonus and sac arguably 2) So from that point i just have to ask me if you are a little biased?
Personally, if the zealot had a 5th gun and didn't lose it's drone bay, I'd fly one, like, tomorrow.
I don't beleive murder said anything about not fixing the other HAC's, god knows the sac is hurting, muninn is kind of an all around weird ship (double range bonus would be uber), zealot doesn't have the output it should, cerberus could probably use an extra midslot so it can do something radical like tackle and not die as easily as a caracal as a result, so on and so forth. This thread is just about the ishtar, and it's goofy little drone range bonus, don't think anyone here is trying to claim the other HAC's don't need just as much tweaking (if not considerably more)
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:53:00 -
[40]
+5% to drone mwd speed and +7.5% to drone tracking per lvl doesn't seem bad to me to replace that bonus (or even replace the turret bonus to make it drone-only). (mind you I fly all hacs so not realy gallente biased like some other ppl here)
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:57:00 -
[41]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 20/07/2007 07:56:48
Originally by: ElCoCo +5% to drone mwd speed and +7.5% to drone tracking per lvl doesn't seem bad to me to replace that bonus (or even replace the turret bonus to make it drone-only). (mind you I fly all hacs so not realy gallente biased like some other ppl here)
Hadn't thought of tracking, good idea. 5% all around speed boost and a tracking bonus to boot; make them harder to shoot down and easier to use effectively.
If it'll make the "OMG FIX ___________ INSTEAD OF ISHTAR" crowd happy I can start 3 or 4 new threads for each of the gimped HAC's...
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:58:00 -
[42]
Well, even tho Ishtar is quite balanced and has great versatility. Yeah, bonus isnt used all the time like Vagabond uses its 4 all the time.
Well, if to look for an alternative to that bonus, then maybe:
- 5% drone volume decrease. - 5% drone signature radius reduction. - 5% drone signature resolution reduction. - 5% thermal drone damage increase(50% overall, 75% for ogres/hammerheads/hobgoblins). - 5% drone speed or tracking or etc.
Not going to argue if current bonus is good or bad, but those are just variations I thought about. ---
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Litus Arowar
Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 08:03:00 -
[43]
Originally by: n0thing Well, even tho Ishtar is quite balanced and has great versatility. Yeah, bonus isnt used all the time like Vagabond uses its 4 all the time.
Well, if to look for an alternative to that bonus, then maybe:
- 5% drone volume decrease. - 5% drone signature radius reduction. - 5% drone signature resolution reduction. - 5% thermal drone damage increase(50% overall, 75% for ogres/hammerheads/hobgoblins). - 5% drone speed or tracking or etc.
Not going to argue if current bonus is good or bad, but those are just variations I thought about.
the apoc doesn't use its bonus when it fits artilleries... and other such ridiculous crap
vagabond uses none of its bonuses when you fit it with 2 missile launchers only...
stop this thread, this is NOT a ship that needs fixing
Benn Helmsman> Could a mod give this guy a snip for constant insulting without giving any point to the topic? |
mikaelim
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Posted - 2007.07.20 08:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Personally, if the zealot had a 5th gun and didn't lose it's drone bay, I'd fly one, like, tomorrow.
Unfortunately it has neither a drone bay nor a 5th turret. And on top of that a useless bonus. But as murder said its a fine ship with "great" bonuses. Yeah Zealot is a monster. Nothing to see here, move along. And no he is *obviously* not biased at all.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
I don't beleive murder said anything about not fixing the other HAC's, god knows the sac is hurting, muninn is kind of an all around weird ship (double range bonus would be uber), zealot doesn't have the output it should, cerberus could probably use an extra midslot so it can do something radical like tackle and not die as easily as a caracal as a result, so on and so forth.
Well, he stated it's all ok with the other hac bonuses. Except for *maybe* the sac. To me this sounds exactly as if he wants to *NOT* boost/change the other hacs, especially zealot and sac which both (blatantly obvious) have problems with their bonuses.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
This thread is just about the ishtar, and it's goofy little drone range bonus, don't think anyone here is trying to claim the other HAC's don't need just as much tweaking (if not considerably more)
Well as i said above, he does. Also it was murder who brought the other hacs in here. I wouldn't have mentioned zealot/sac if he had only spoken on ishtar. In that case i had just stated how ishtar is 2nd best hac and doesn't need a boost. But he *did* state Zealots/sacs bonuses would be ok and better than ishtars. Thats just plain stupid and ignorant and it implies theres nothing to fix there. So he opened Pandora's Box. Not my problem at all.
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Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.20 08:25:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Horza Otho /signed.
Repair amount bonus plx
Well i agree that other ships are more needy than the Ishtar. But if it had this bonus, I would probably actually fly one :P.
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 08:36:00 -
[46]
Originally by: mikaelim
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Personally, if the zealot had a 5th gun and didn't lose it's drone bay, I'd fly one, like, tomorrow.
Unfortunately it has neither a drone bay nor a 5th turret. And on top of that a useless bonus. But as murder said its a fine ship with "great" bonuses. Yeah Zealot is a monster. Nothing to see here, move along. And no he is *obviously* not biased at all.
Wow, um, way to stumble right through the point. My point is that other HAC's absolutely need fixing, buffing, tweaking, whatever you want to call it, especially of the amarr variety. I do fly amarr, for the record. The fact the zealot doesn't have a 5th gun and loses it's drone bay are rather severe issues.
Originally by: mikaelim
Originally by: doctorstupid2
I don't beleive murder said anything about not fixing the other HAC's, god knows the sac is hurting, muninn is kind of an all around weird ship (double range bonus would be uber), zealot doesn't have the output it should, cerberus could probably use an extra midslot so it can do something radical like tackle and not die as easily as a caracal as a result, so on and so forth.
Well, he stated it's all ok with the other hac bonuses. Except for *maybe* the sac. To me this sounds exactly as if he wants to *NOT* boost/change the other hacs, especially zealot and sac which both (blatantly obvious) have problems with their bonuses.
Not really, you missed his point. I'll be the first to point out that murder's points are frequently over-complicated, but I think he was using the other ships as a comparison, e.g. the vagabond has 4 very practical boni, arguably so does the zealot, while the sacriledge and muninn are missing quite a bit. Shift your focus from what's wrong with other ships for a minute, we all know the problems are there, this is about 1 of 4 boni on one ship that murder flies, and thusly has had experience with. It's not an "OMG SO UNDERPOWERED BUFF BUFF BUFF WTFHAX" thread, it's a "why the crap does my ship have a stupid bonus" thread.
Originally by: mikaelim
Originally by: doctorstupid2
This thread is just about the ishtar, and it's goofy little drone range bonus, don't think anyone here is trying to claim the other HAC's don't need just as much tweaking (if not considerably more)
Well as i said above, he does. Also it was murder who brought the other hacs in here. I wouldn't have mentioned zealot/sac if he had only spoken on ishtar. In that case i had just stated how ishtar is 2nd best hac and doesn't need a boost. But he *did* state Zealots/sacs bonuses would be ok and better than ishtars. Thats just plain stupid and ignorant and it implies theres nothing to fix there. So he opened Pandora's Box. Not my problem at all.
See above, references to other HAC's were comparisons to put what he was proposing into context. Zealots boni ARE more useful then the drone range bonus on the ishtar, it's boni are not its problem. The sacriledge is a whole other cluster**** I don't even want to start discussing at present, we can all agree it need help. The point of this thread, if you can move past semantics for just one momnent, is NOT that the ishtar is underpowered or in desperate need of fixing; no, the point is it has an obscure bonus as do several other HAC's, and could use a minor tweak when they get their fixes as well.
If he opened pandora's box and you have a short attention span, not my problem.
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
Steini OFSI
Gallente Minigame
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Posted - 2007.07.20 08:46:00 -
[47]
You get it all wrong, fit 2-3 drone augmentories, 2 sensor booster whatyacallitanyway. Have a webi/warp scrambly frig at gate and let your drones orbit it, and you have a sniper setup with Ishtar or SNISHTAR as I like to call it
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Dread Phantom
Caldari Project-Chaos
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Posted - 2007.07.20 09:02:00 -
[48]
More noobs calling heavy drones BS weapons
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mikaelim
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Posted - 2007.07.20 10:24:00 -
[49]
Edited by: mikaelim on 20/07/2007 10:24:26
Originally by: doctorstupid2
I do fly amarr, for the record. The fact the zealot doesn't have a 5th gun and loses it's drone bay are rather severe issues.
Yep, we totally agree here as far as i can tell.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
Not really, you missed his point. I'll be the first to point out that murder's points are frequently over-complicated, but I think he was using the other ships as a comparison, e.g. the vagabond has 4 very practical boni, arguably so does the zealot, while the sacriledge and
One of the Zealots bonus is cap usage to lasers. Calling this bonus useful is a bit meh. Its *necessary* and not useful in opposite to *all* other hac bonuses which give an edge and don't make your ship *just* barely usable. So how all of Zealots bonuses are fine is kind of a mystery to me. Whatever. Ofc. this is a more general problem with amarr ships lacking a 2nd or 4th real bonus. Devs said they might give us real bonuses (like cap warfare etc) and gave us pulse tracking instead. Bad luck.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
muninn are missing quite a bit. Shift your focus from what's wrong with other ships for a minute, we all know the problems are there, this is about 1 of 4 boni on one ship that murder flies, and thusly has had experience with. It's not an "OMG SO UNDERPOWERED BUFF BUFF BUFF WTFHAX" thread, it's a "why the crap does my ship have a stupid bonus" thread.
No, you are wrong. I already told you that i see the not so cool bonus thingie. Yes, drone control range is not what i would want for this ship either. However he proceeds to propose a *second* damage bonus to drones or a *repair amount* bonus. And now tell me its not about making the isthar more powerful. LOL.
So he then said he would settle with kind of a utility bonus like drone speed or something. Well this brings him at least back to reality from my point of view. (still he obviously *thinks* a double dronebonus or rep amount bonus would actually be ok - again in what world do you live?)
And again. You cannot just state oh this bonus isnt so cool, so hey lets change it but lets don't talk about how this compares to other hacs at all etc. It's called balance. You want to discuss a bonus change? Fine, but then accept people will ask if that puts isthar even more ahead of certain other hacs. Can't see how this is bad.
On the other hand if you are not going to change ishtar then why discussing it at all? And if you want to change it why not discussing how this changes it pvp capabilites? (i.e. putting out more damage than da domi or myrmi with drones lol @the op - the more i think about it the more it must be pure comedy)
Originally by: doctorstupid2
Zealots boni ARE more useful then the drone range bonus on the ishtar, it's boni are not its problem.
Every Amarr ship has problems with its bonuses except for curse and pilgrim. I see where you are coming from and again YES DRONE CONTROL RANGE BONUS IS NO FUN.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
underpowered or in desperate need of fixing; no, the point is it has an obscure bonus as do several other HAC's, and could use a minor tweak when they get their fixes as well.
A minor tweak? Like say double drone damage bonus or rep amount bonus? You are talking like murder is giving a concert for world peace. Maybe you should read his op again? He just wants one of his ships improved *no matter* if it is balanced at all or not. That being said minor change like drone speed etc. would be ok with me too. But not all proposals were *that* reasonable and i think you must have missed that.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
If he opened pandora's box and you have a short attention span, not my problem.
So now we are resorting to personal attacks? Well you apparently have an academic degree in stupidity - so why bother?
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 11:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Litus Arowar
Originally by: n0thing Well, even tho Ishtar is quite balanced and has great versatility. Yeah, bonus isnt used all the time like Vagabond uses its 4 all the time.
Well, if to look for an alternative to that bonus, then maybe:
- 5% drone volume decrease. - 5% drone signature radius reduction. - 5% drone signature resolution reduction. - 5% thermal drone damage increase(50% overall, 75% for ogres/hammerheads/hobgoblins). - 5% drone speed or tracking or etc.
Not going to argue if current bonus is good or bad, but those are just variations I thought about.
the apoc doesn't use its bonus when it fits artilleries... and other such ridiculous crap
vagabond uses none of its bonuses when you fit it with 2 missile launchers only...
stop this thread, this is NOT a ship that needs fixing
Ok, I didnt say that this ship needs a change. Read my post correctly. I said that if that bonus *might* need a change then heres *ideas* for new one. I wasnt saying ship needs it for sure.
As for rest of your post, it doesnt make any sense. What did you try to say with Apoc with projectiles and Vagabond with missles? I mean you think that Ishtar using drones is like Vagabond using missles? In that case....well...I only can ---
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Akiman
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Posted - 2007.07.20 12:35:00 -
[51]
imo op is right. Since deimos got good bonuses but crap and ishtar has a little crap bonuses but it rocks. so bonuses dont make much issue here. therefore it wont make ishtar a god.but ccp wont do it. thats for sure.
how about fixing covertop ships bonuses
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Neena Valdi
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.07.20 12:54:00 -
[52]
Try using sentry drones if you think the bonus is useless...
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Fuglife
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.07.20 13:00:00 -
[53]
Oh god, you again.... are we gonna see this sort of thread everytime you learn to fly a new ship?
Looking at your chars age we could be in for a very long ride.
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maarud
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.20 13:14:00 -
[54]
More dmg.. NO More rep.. NO
Make the bonus a 5%-10% increase in drone speed or something. That would be cool. Ogre's zooming around like Hammerheads and Hobgoblins that eat inties up.
Maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
Susan Acid
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.20 13:28:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Neena Valdi Try using sentry drones if you think the bonus is useless...
The range bonus does not apply to Sentrys.
Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: +5 km bonus to Scout and Heavy Drone operation range.
It's a pretty useless bonus when it comes down to PvP but the ship itself is fine.Maybe a bonus to Drone speed would be nice but I'm happy as it is.
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DEREK OMGPRIMARY
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Posted - 2007.07.20 14:12:00 -
[56]
I keep returning to EveO just to reply to Murder One threads.
Hai!
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Beef Hardslab
The 5 Amigo's LLC. NxT LeveL
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Posted - 2007.07.20 14:14:00 -
[57]
Poor weak ***lente... will no one help the frenchies? They are so nerfed.
<insert middle-finger emoticon here X 50> Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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Pax Uranus
Sofa.Kingdom
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Posted - 2007.07.20 15:20:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Fuglife Oh god, you again.... are we gonna see this sort of thread everytime you learn to fly a new ship?
Looking at your chars age we could be in for a very long ride.
This post is full of win.
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Zkillz kun
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.20 15:36:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Czcibor Przemo This thread is now about Chocolate ice cream and how to improve it. Sure Vanilla has it's strong points but ignore that ok guys?
Originally by: Czcibor Przemo I clearly stated that this thread was strictly about chocolate ice cream.
Originally by: PWNERIZE Chocolate is an established flavor, pistachio is more of an underdog. Shouldn't we improve pistachio before worrying about chocolate?
ITT we sum up threads in 3 posts
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Rania Serlia
World Order The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2007.07.20 16:00:00 -
[60]
As you said in your first post, all other HACs get a range bonus to their primary weapons system, so I say why should the ishtar be any different?
OMG, I can fit a tracking comp to get the range I get on teh munin, boost munnin with 3rd damage bonus! OMG, I can fit velocity or flight time rigs to get the same range on a cerb, boost cerb with moar rof!
Is the drone range control underpowered compared to other range bonuses? Perhaps. What does it greatly help with? Sentry drones/T2 sentry drones/lights/possibly mediums.
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Yarek Balear
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.20 16:28:00 -
[61]
On the whole I feel that Gallente are in a reasonable position PVP-wise, but I don't agree with the HACs are fine posts here. It's virtually impossible to fit anything worthwhile on the Ishtar (other than possibly a crap speed-fit) and despite me being pretty specialised in everything this ship needs I cannot find a reason to fly it. I realise this is true of some of the other HACs out there, but seriously, why would any self-respecting skilled Gallente pilot fly an Ishtar over a Myrmidon or Domi ?
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Murukan
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2007.07.20 17:06:00 -
[62]
You really have no clue when it comes to balancing stuff
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Nicocat
Caldari Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.07.20 17:17:00 -
[63]
M1 is like a random joke generator that always delivers.
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
Down with alts! One character per account per IP! |
Little Strawberry
Caldari The Rapture
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Posted - 2007.07.20 17:26:00 -
[64]
You know, M1 seems to have problems with the way a lot of different ships work. I wonder is it possible that he's right? Could all of theses ships just be awful? Is possible!?!?!?!
Or could it be that he's just awful at flying them and generally not very good at eve? Hrm...
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William DeMeo
Gallente Serial Killers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 17:28:00 -
[65]
increasy the damage bonus, or give the ishtar control over 1 additional drone per skill level. ITS ONLY FIAR!!! Yarr |
welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.20 17:37:00 -
[66]
Someone told me this thread is about making the Ishtar better? At first I laughed in their face, surely something so crazy and outrageous hadn't been posted!? And yet here we are.... Truly it beggars belief.
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.20 18:34:00 -
[67]
Originally by: welsh wizard Someone told me this thread is about making the Ishtar better? At first I laughed in their face, surely something so crazy and outrageous hadn't been posted!? And yet here we are.... Truly it beggars belief.
It's just fun poking a stick in a nest of hornets.
What is even more funny is that in regard to the Ishtar's drone control range bonus, I'm right. I just picked something that a) I could take issue with, and actually have a reasonable argument with, and b) everyone would freak out about, because the Ishtar is quite nice anyway.
Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
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Litus Arowar
Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 19:43:00 -
[68]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: welsh wizard Someone told me this thread is about making the Ishtar better? At first I laughed in their face, surely something so crazy and outrageous hadn't been posted!? And yet here we are.... Truly it beggars belief.
It's just fun poking a stick in a nest of hornets.
What is even more funny is that in regard to the Ishtar's drone control range bonus, I'm right. I just picked something that a) I could take issue with, and actually have a reasonable argument with, and b) everyone would freak out about, because the Ishtar is quite nice anyway.
and this is why the eve-o forums are easily the worst forums around... simply put, the mods don't know what the hell they're doing, or they're working within really ****ty limitations that are imposed upon them by someone even more clueless...
everyone can start a thread that states a ship needs improvement, even a ship that's already decent, and get all kinds of kneejerk responses...
the fact that the average forum reader is too dumb to realize that the only way to KILL a thread like this is to not respond (yes, I see the irony in my posting this) makes it break down...
seriously, eve-o needs to take a hint from scrapheap challenge, you simply don't get this kind of **** over there
that's all I'm gonna say
Benn Helmsman> Could a mod give this guy a snip for constant insulting without giving any point to the topic? |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.20 20:22:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Litus Arowar
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: welsh wizard Someone told me this thread is about making the Ishtar better? At first I laughed in their face, surely something so crazy and outrageous hadn't been posted!? And yet here we are.... Truly it beggars belief.
It's just fun poking a stick in a nest of hornets.
What is even more funny is that in regard to the Ishtar's drone control range bonus, I'm right. I just picked something that a) I could take issue with, and actually have a reasonable argument with, and b) everyone would freak out about, because the Ishtar is quite nice anyway.
and this is why the eve-o forums are easily the worst forums around... simply put, the mods don't know what the hell they're doing, or they're working within really ****ty limitations that are imposed upon them by someone even more clueless...
everyone can start a thread that states a ship needs improvement, even a ship that's already decent, and get all kinds of kneejerk responses...
the fact that the average forum reader is too dumb to realize that the only way to KILL a thread like this is to not respond (yes, I see the irony in my posting this) makes it break down...
seriously, eve-o needs to take a hint from scrapheap challenge, you simply don't get this kind of **** over there
that's all I'm gonna say
Yeah, I agree. If people simply discussed the topic that is posted in an intelligent manner and stayed on topic, then we wouldn't have three pages of 'omg you're insane!' posts.
Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
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Murehz
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Posted - 2007.07.20 21:38:00 -
[70]
I'm sorry but I read the first 10(ish) posts and couldn't stop laughing and therefore didn't read the rest.
I'll sum up what I think in an easy to understand way for everyone "You touch my ishtar and I'll hunt you down and kill you". For those who need it simpler "I like it the way it is, it doesn't need changing your just not using the bonus properly".
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.20 22:39:00 -
[71]
man the gallente whine lobby has gotten ridiculusly powerful....... ishtar is a fantastic ship, and it doesnt need its bonus changed.
Quote: Double drone damage bonus. Other ships have double bonuses to damage as well. Why not the Ishtar? Make the HAC second bonus a +5% drone damage bonus (no HP bonus increase).
wow, im sorry your ship can be beaten by other ships.... really this would make it the most broken ship in the game. It would do more damage then a domi does with its drones. IF it gets this bonus it effectivly has a triple damage bonus. Please dont forget you get a medium hybrid damage bonus as well.
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.20 22:42:00 -
[72]
Quote: Right, 4 loslots that are vital slots on a Scorp, vs 1 non-turret hislot on a droneboat that doesn't really use his hislots for anything really
High slots are extremely vital to the scorp. Thats where you fit plates to extend its life span should u miss a jam. Oh please give the eagle 2 more turret slots while your at it, same with ferox.
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 22:42:00 -
[73]
Originally by: mikaelim Yep, we totally agree here as far as i can tell.
Good, one down
Originally by: mikaelim One of the Zealots bonus is cap usage to lasers. Calling this bonus useful is a bit meh. Its *necessary* and not useful in opposite to *all* other hac bonuses which give an edge and don't make your ship *just* barely usable. So how all of Zealots bonuses are fine is kind of a mystery to me. Whatever. Ofc. this is a more general problem with amarr ships lacking a 2nd or 4th real bonus. Devs said they might give us real bonuses (like cap warfare etc) and gave us pulse tracking instead. Bad luck.
Valid point, if the cap usage of lasers were tweaked and allowed a more useful bonus in place of cap usage, I would be a full supporter of it.
Originally by: mikaelim No, you are wrong. I already told you that i see the not so cool bonus thingie. Yes, drone control range is not what i would want for this ship either. However he proceeds to propose a *second* damage bonus to drones or a *repair amount* bonus. And now tell me its not about making the isthar more powerful. LOL.
So he then said he would settle with kind of a utility bonus like drone speed or something. Well this brings him at least back to reality from my point of view. (still he obviously *thinks* a double dronebonus or rep amount bonus would actually be ok - again in what world do you live?)
I agree, a rep or resist bonus is completely over the top. The word "unstoppable" comes to mind.
Originally by: mikaelim
A minor tweak? Like say double drone damage bonus or rep amount bonus? You are talking like murder is giving a concert for world peace. Maybe you should read his op again? He just wants one of his ships improved *no matter* if it is balanced at all or not. That being said minor change like drone speed etc. would be ok with me too. But not all proposals were *that* reasonable and i think you must have missed that.
You are correct, an additional damage bonus is simply too damn much. I know murder pretty well, and have learned to read through his crazy ideas to the actual point. he's a bit.... over-zealous, we'll say.
Originally by: mikaelim
So now we are resorting to personal attacks? Well you apparently have an academic degree in stupidity - so why bother?
Wasn't really a personal attack, more of an observation, not directed solely at you, for that matter :P
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.20 22:45:00 -
[74]
I'm pretty sure that drone control range is an offesnive bonus considering it lets you shoot sentries that much further.......
Eh your right, the whole gallente race sucks murder one. Lets double every ships power grid and cpu that way you can fit a full rack of neutrons on your mega and a tank, same with the domi and the deimos. Then it will be balanced, gallente will tear apart any non gallente ship, and thats how it should be right?
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 22:56:00 -
[75]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 20/07/2007 22:57:56
Originally by: Yarek Balear On the whole I feel that Gallente are in a reasonable position PVP-wise, but I don't agree with the HACs are fine posts here. It's virtually impossible to fit anything worthwhile on the Ishtar (other than possibly a crap speed-fit) and despite me being pretty specialised in everything this ship needs I cannot find a reason to fly it. I realise this is true of some of the other HACs out there, but seriously, why would any self-respecting skilled Gallente pilot fly an Ishtar over a Myrmidon or Domi ?
I wouldn't go that far, while it's true the ishtar is very limited on powergrid and CPU accounting for its additional slots over the vexor, it easily fits an impressive tank. Personally I run dual reps with a cap booster, plate AND mwd. With no fitting mods or rigs. Granted, my setup has somewhere around 0.4 powergrid to spare and is equally tight on cpu, it's quite effective.
Why do I fly it over the Myrmidon? Having multiple flights of heavy drones, plus lights and mediums, while being faster, more mobile, and harder to catch all while taking less damage not even accounting for the natural resists might have something to do with it. Same with the dominix, solo roaming in 0.0 in a domi borders on "stupid," but is indeed quite fun and I do it. Of course my domi has a rack of t2 large electrons on it and 2 mag fields and ganks things silly, it's overall immobile. I am, however, old-fashoned like that and don't rely on trying to suck on things' cap until they self-destruct out of boredom to kill them.
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
Gaius Sejanus
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.21 01:29:00 -
[76]
Quote: It's fine as is. Use sentry drones to gain the benefit.
Sentry drones do not benefit from the control range bonus.
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.21 01:53:00 -
[77]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy Please dont forget you get a medium hybrid damage bonus as well.
Without relation to the thread itself, this sentence made me lol. Try fitting medium hybrids on an Ishtar having 3 hardpoints and no grid/cpu left for even slight tank.
---
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burek
Eve Bakery
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Posted - 2007.07.21 02:01:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Fuglife Oh god, you again.... are we gonna see this sort of thread everytime you learn to fly a new ship?
I think it's safe to say... yes.
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.21 02:20:00 -
[79]
Quote: Sentry drones do not benefit from the control range bonus.
I thought sentry drones could only shoot as far as your drone controll range?... wouldnt this help you acheive a greater range with sentries?
Quote: Without relation to the thread itself, this sentence made me lol. Try fitting medium hybrids on an Ishtar having 3 hardpoints and no grid/cpu left for even slight tank.
Like many ships, its tank or gank. You can get almost 800 dps out of this ship if you have a mind too. It doesnt need to be doing 800 dps and tank..... so yes it is a bonus, it allows you to be a ganker. Be glad you even get a damage bonus to your turret hard points considering an eagle has no damage bonus to its missles (secondary weapon system) and has no drone bay
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Isyel
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.21 09:28:00 -
[80]
Thing is... there's so many stupid people making stupid threads around you end up believing them :p ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.21 10:46:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus
Quote: It's fine as is. Use sentry drones to gain the benefit.
Sentry drones do not benefit from the control range bonus.
If you deploy them and remain stationary they do not benefit. That's the most straightforward way to use them, but not the only way. _____ CPU Love |
n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.21 11:21:00 -
[82]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy stuff
Gank is a ship that kills fast while sustaining enemy damage for that short time till he ganks the target. Apparently an Ishatr with 3 medium Ion IIs I can take even in a plated rax. I will have more hp while Ishtar will have about 1.5k shield and 2.2k armor at most. Paper is stronger than this tbh.
Oh and Eagle gets 60km optimal with Antimatter ammo. Think its pretty enough considering amount of kills it can get from just sitting 200k off gate and picking af`s and inties. One of best ships for fleet if you aint got BS. ---
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Justice Bringer
Minmatar Combined Technologies
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Posted - 2007.07.21 22:43:00 -
[83]
Dude, you're just being greedy plain and simple.
The Ishtar is the most versatile HAC of the lot and you want it to do more than it already can???
5, 5, 5 slot layout is more than sufficient to have more than 2 different setups of your choice. You say the drone control range is of no use, but have you considered those lvl 4 missions where the spawns may be over 60km away and being in a close range boat is of no use.
Of course you're screaming about how slowly it takes your drones to travel this distance, but if you're in a gang you know that you can safely use 2 of your med slots with Drone Navigational Computers. Fit a Drone Link Augmentor in the high slot and you're up to 100km easily.
I've tried this with my drones reaching 100km and it only took them 5 seconds to reach their target (medium drones), heavies will take a little longer at that range, but my point is the Ishtar is versatile so choose the mods that already exist.
Max out your HAS skill and Electonic Warfare Drone Interfacing and you'll get yourself a nice safe distance for your sentries to shoot from, let alone your normal drones.
Easy when you just try a little harder
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Seriya
Caldari RSP Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.21 22:59:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Seriya on 21/07/2007 23:01:19 Both the OP and the deriders make some reasonable points. I do disagree with the OP that the 5% Hybrid Damage bonus is a non-bonus - it's a very good bonus and fits the ship. However, I also agree that the +5km Drone Control Range is underpowered - given the way Drone Control Range is costed it should probably be +10km per level.
This doesn't however detract from the fact that it's a damn fine ship regardless.
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Serilla
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.22 01:31:00 -
[85]
Originally by: maarud Make the bonus a 5%-10% increase in drone speed or something. That would be cool. Ogre's zooming around like Hammerheads and Hobgoblins that eat inties up.
YES __________________
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