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Yarek Balear
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.20 16:28:00 -
[61]
On the whole I feel that Gallente are in a reasonable position PVP-wise, but I don't agree with the HACs are fine posts here. It's virtually impossible to fit anything worthwhile on the Ishtar (other than possibly a crap speed-fit) and despite me being pretty specialised in everything this ship needs I cannot find a reason to fly it. I realise this is true of some of the other HACs out there, but seriously, why would any self-respecting skilled Gallente pilot fly an Ishtar over a Myrmidon or Domi ?
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Murukan
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2007.07.20 17:06:00 -
[62]
You really have no clue when it comes to balancing stuff 
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Nicocat
Caldari Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.07.20 17:17:00 -
[63]
M1 is like a random joke generator that always delivers.
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
Down with alts! One character per account per IP! |

Little Strawberry
Caldari The Rapture
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Posted - 2007.07.20 17:26:00 -
[64]
You know, M1 seems to have problems with the way a lot of different ships work. I wonder is it possible that he's right? Could all of theses ships just be awful? Is possible!?!?!?!
Or could it be that he's just awful at flying them and generally not very good at eve? Hrm...
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William DeMeo
Gallente Serial Killers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 17:28:00 -
[65]
increasy the damage bonus, or give the ishtar control over 1 additional drone per skill level. ITS ONLY FIAR!!! Yarr |

welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.20 17:37:00 -
[66]
Someone told me this thread is about making the Ishtar better? At first I laughed in their face, surely something so crazy and outrageous hadn't been posted!? And yet here we are.... Truly it beggars belief.

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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.20 18:34:00 -
[67]
Originally by: welsh wizard Someone told me this thread is about making the Ishtar better? At first I laughed in their face, surely something so crazy and outrageous hadn't been posted!? And yet here we are.... Truly it beggars belief.

It's just fun poking a stick in a nest of hornets. 
What is even more funny is that in regard to the Ishtar's drone control range bonus, I'm right. I just picked something that a) I could take issue with, and actually have a reasonable argument with, and b) everyone would freak out about, because the Ishtar is quite nice anyway.
Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
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Litus Arowar
Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 19:43:00 -
[68]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: welsh wizard Someone told me this thread is about making the Ishtar better? At first I laughed in their face, surely something so crazy and outrageous hadn't been posted!? And yet here we are.... Truly it beggars belief.

It's just fun poking a stick in a nest of hornets. 
What is even more funny is that in regard to the Ishtar's drone control range bonus, I'm right. I just picked something that a) I could take issue with, and actually have a reasonable argument with, and b) everyone would freak out about, because the Ishtar is quite nice anyway.
and this is why the eve-o forums are easily the worst forums around... simply put, the mods don't know what the hell they're doing, or they're working within really ****ty limitations that are imposed upon them by someone even more clueless...
everyone can start a thread that states a ship needs improvement, even a ship that's already decent, and get all kinds of kneejerk responses...
the fact that the average forum reader is too dumb to realize that the only way to KILL a thread like this is to not respond (yes, I see the irony in my posting this) makes it break down...
seriously, eve-o needs to take a hint from scrapheap challenge, you simply don't get this kind of **** over there
that's all I'm gonna say
Benn Helmsman> Could a mod give this guy a snip for constant insulting without giving any point to the topic? |

murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.20 20:22:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Litus Arowar
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: welsh wizard Someone told me this thread is about making the Ishtar better? At first I laughed in their face, surely something so crazy and outrageous hadn't been posted!? And yet here we are.... Truly it beggars belief.

It's just fun poking a stick in a nest of hornets. 
What is even more funny is that in regard to the Ishtar's drone control range bonus, I'm right. I just picked something that a) I could take issue with, and actually have a reasonable argument with, and b) everyone would freak out about, because the Ishtar is quite nice anyway.
and this is why the eve-o forums are easily the worst forums around... simply put, the mods don't know what the hell they're doing, or they're working within really ****ty limitations that are imposed upon them by someone even more clueless...
everyone can start a thread that states a ship needs improvement, even a ship that's already decent, and get all kinds of kneejerk responses...
the fact that the average forum reader is too dumb to realize that the only way to KILL a thread like this is to not respond (yes, I see the irony in my posting this) makes it break down...
seriously, eve-o needs to take a hint from scrapheap challenge, you simply don't get this kind of **** over there
that's all I'm gonna say
Yeah, I agree. If people simply discussed the topic that is posted in an intelligent manner and stayed on topic, then we wouldn't have three pages of 'omg you're insane!' posts.
Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
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Murehz
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Posted - 2007.07.20 21:38:00 -
[70]
I'm sorry but I read the first 10(ish) posts and couldn't stop laughing and therefore didn't read the rest.
I'll sum up what I think in an easy to understand way for everyone "You touch my ishtar and I'll hunt you down and kill you". For those who need it simpler "I like it the way it is, it doesn't need changing your just not using the bonus properly".
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.20 22:39:00 -
[71]
man the gallente whine lobby has gotten ridiculusly powerful....... ishtar is a fantastic ship, and it doesnt need its bonus changed.
Quote: Double drone damage bonus. Other ships have double bonuses to damage as well. Why not the Ishtar? Make the HAC second bonus a +5% drone damage bonus (no HP bonus increase).
wow, im sorry your ship can be beaten by other ships.... really this would make it the most broken ship in the game. It would do more damage then a domi does with its drones. IF it gets this bonus it effectivly has a triple damage bonus. Please dont forget you get a medium hybrid damage bonus as well. 
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.20 22:42:00 -
[72]
Quote: Right, 4 loslots that are vital slots on a Scorp, vs 1 non-turret hislot on a droneboat that doesn't really use his hislots for anything really
High slots are extremely vital to the scorp. Thats where you fit plates to extend its life span should u miss a jam. Oh please give the eagle 2 more turret slots while your at it, same with ferox.
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 22:42:00 -
[73]
Originally by: mikaelim Yep, we totally agree here as far as i can tell.
Good, one down
Originally by: mikaelim One of the Zealots bonus is cap usage to lasers. Calling this bonus useful is a bit meh. Its *necessary* and not useful in opposite to *all* other hac bonuses which give an edge and don't make your ship *just* barely usable. So how all of Zealots bonuses are fine is kind of a mystery to me. Whatever. Ofc. this is a more general problem with amarr ships lacking a 2nd or 4th real bonus. Devs said they might give us real bonuses (like cap warfare etc) and gave us pulse tracking instead. Bad luck.
Valid point, if the cap usage of lasers were tweaked and allowed a more useful bonus in place of cap usage, I would be a full supporter of it.
Originally by: mikaelim No, you are wrong. I already told you that i see the not so cool bonus thingie. Yes, drone control range is not what i would want for this ship either. However he proceeds to propose a *second* damage bonus to drones or a *repair amount* bonus. And now tell me its not about making the isthar more powerful. LOL.
So he then said he would settle with kind of a utility bonus like drone speed or something. Well this brings him at least back to reality from my point of view. (still he obviously *thinks* a double dronebonus or rep amount bonus would actually be ok - again in what world do you live?)
I agree, a rep or resist bonus is completely over the top. The word "unstoppable" comes to mind.
Originally by: mikaelim
A minor tweak? Like say double drone damage bonus or rep amount bonus? You are talking like murder is giving a concert for world peace. Maybe you should read his op again? He just wants one of his ships improved *no matter* if it is balanced at all or not. That being said minor change like drone speed etc. would be ok with me too. But not all proposals were *that* reasonable and i think you must have missed that.
You are correct, an additional damage bonus is simply too damn much. I know murder pretty well, and have learned to read through his crazy ideas to the actual point. he's a bit.... over-zealous, we'll say.
Originally by: mikaelim
So now we are resorting to personal attacks? Well you apparently have an academic degree in stupidity - so why bother?
Wasn't really a personal attack, more of an observation, not directed solely at you, for that matter :P
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |

KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.20 22:45:00 -
[74]
I'm pretty sure that drone control range is an offesnive bonus considering it lets you shoot sentries that much further.......
Eh your right, the whole gallente race sucks murder one. Lets double every ships power grid and cpu that way you can fit a full rack of neutrons on your mega and a tank, same with the domi and the deimos. Then it will be balanced, gallente will tear apart any non gallente ship, and thats how it should be right?
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 22:56:00 -
[75]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 20/07/2007 22:57:56
Originally by: Yarek Balear On the whole I feel that Gallente are in a reasonable position PVP-wise, but I don't agree with the HACs are fine posts here. It's virtually impossible to fit anything worthwhile on the Ishtar (other than possibly a crap speed-fit) and despite me being pretty specialised in everything this ship needs I cannot find a reason to fly it. I realise this is true of some of the other HACs out there, but seriously, why would any self-respecting skilled Gallente pilot fly an Ishtar over a Myrmidon or Domi ?
I wouldn't go that far, while it's true the ishtar is very limited on powergrid and CPU accounting for its additional slots over the vexor, it easily fits an impressive tank. Personally I run dual reps with a cap booster, plate AND mwd. With no fitting mods or rigs. Granted, my setup has somewhere around 0.4 powergrid to spare and is equally tight on cpu, it's quite effective.
Why do I fly it over the Myrmidon? Having multiple flights of heavy drones, plus lights and mediums, while being faster, more mobile, and harder to catch all while taking less damage not even accounting for the natural resists might have something to do with it. Same with the dominix, solo roaming in 0.0 in a domi borders on "stupid," but is indeed quite fun and I do it. Of course my domi has a rack of t2 large electrons on it and 2 mag fields and ganks things silly, it's overall immobile. I am, however, old-fashoned like that and don't rely on trying to suck on things' cap until they self-destruct out of boredom to kill them.
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |

Gaius Sejanus
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.21 01:29:00 -
[76]
Quote: It's fine as is. Use sentry drones to gain the benefit.
Sentry drones do not benefit from the control range bonus.
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.21 01:53:00 -
[77]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy Please dont forget you get a medium hybrid damage bonus as well. 
Without relation to the thread itself, this sentence made me lol. Try fitting medium hybrids on an Ishtar having 3 hardpoints and no grid/cpu left for even slight tank.
---
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burek
Eve Bakery
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Posted - 2007.07.21 02:01:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Fuglife Oh god, you again.... are we gonna see this sort of thread everytime you learn to fly a new ship?
I think it's safe to say... yes. 
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.21 02:20:00 -
[79]
Quote: Sentry drones do not benefit from the control range bonus.
I thought sentry drones could only shoot as far as your drone controll range?... wouldnt this help you acheive a greater range with sentries?
Quote: Without relation to the thread itself, this sentence made me lol. Try fitting medium hybrids on an Ishtar having 3 hardpoints and no grid/cpu left for even slight tank.
Like many ships, its tank or gank. You can get almost 800 dps out of this ship if you have a mind too. It doesnt need to be doing 800 dps and tank..... so yes it is a bonus, it allows you to be a ganker. Be glad you even get a damage bonus to your turret hard points considering an eagle has no damage bonus to its missles (secondary weapon system) and has no drone bay 
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Isyel
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.21 09:28:00 -
[80]
Thing is... there's so many stupid people making stupid threads around you end up believing them :p ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!  
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.21 10:46:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus
Quote: It's fine as is. Use sentry drones to gain the benefit.
Sentry drones do not benefit from the control range bonus.
If you deploy them and remain stationary they do not benefit. That's the most straightforward way to use them, but not the only way. _____ CPU Love |

n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.21 11:21:00 -
[82]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy stuff
Gank is a ship that kills fast while sustaining enemy damage for that short time till he ganks the target. Apparently an Ishatr with 3 medium Ion IIs I can take even in a plated rax. I will have more hp while Ishtar will have about 1.5k shield and 2.2k armor at most. Paper is stronger than this tbh.
Oh and Eagle gets 60km optimal with Antimatter ammo. Think its pretty enough considering amount of kills it can get from just sitting 200k off gate and picking af`s and inties. One of best ships for fleet if you aint got BS. ---
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Justice Bringer
Minmatar Combined Technologies
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Posted - 2007.07.21 22:43:00 -
[83]
Dude, you're just being greedy plain and simple. 
The Ishtar is the most versatile HAC of the lot and you want it to do more than it already can???  
5, 5, 5 slot layout is more than sufficient to have more than 2 different setups of your choice. You say the drone control range is of no use, but have you considered those lvl 4 missions where the spawns may be over 60km away and being in a close range boat is of no use.
Of course you're screaming about how slowly it takes your drones to travel this distance, but if you're in a gang you know that you can safely use 2 of your med slots with Drone Navigational Computers. Fit a Drone Link Augmentor in the high slot and you're up to 100km easily.
I've tried this with my drones reaching 100km and it only took them 5 seconds to reach their target (medium drones), heavies will take a little longer at that range, but my point is the Ishtar is versatile so choose the mods that already exist.
Max out your HAS skill and Electonic Warfare Drone Interfacing and you'll get yourself a nice safe distance for your sentries to shoot from, let alone your normal drones.
Easy when you just try a little harder 
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Seriya
Caldari RSP Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.21 22:59:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Seriya on 21/07/2007 23:01:19 Both the OP and the deriders make some reasonable points. I do disagree with the OP that the 5% Hybrid Damage bonus is a non-bonus - it's a very good bonus and fits the ship. However, I also agree that the +5km Drone Control Range is underpowered - given the way Drone Control Range is costed it should probably be +10km per level.
This doesn't however detract from the fact that it's a damn fine ship regardless.
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Serilla
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.22 01:31:00 -
[85]
Originally by: maarud Make the bonus a 5%-10% increase in drone speed or something. That would be cool. Ogre's zooming around like Hammerheads and Hobgoblins that eat inties up.
YES __________________
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