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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.22 19:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 22/07/2007 19:20:59
This summation thread is in response to the 'good things' that Greyscale mentioned in this post. Basically, it is a summary of all the issues, problems, and requests that have appeared over the past, well 4 years. I am not infallible, if I have missed anything please, post it, but post it concisely, and don't repeat what I've already posted. This thread is designed simply as a summary for a dev to come look at, so we maybe get even a 'we're working on it' response. The less the post is cluttered with comment, the more chance that is.
The ones I have listed below have cropped up numerous times, and offered by many people.
Drones have a number of issues.
Drones regularly warp back to the ship and stop 10-15m outside of scoop range. The only solution is to stop and move towards them
Should two drones cross at the same point with the same vector, they become 'stuck' together. The only solution is to send one of them away to something else, breaking their trajectories.
Through whatever reason, it can take multiple attempts to issue a command to a drone before it responds. This could be due to lag, desync, or something hidden, given that this can happen in an empty system.
If the drones are required to travel a long time (general concensus is around 30km at heavy drone speeds) the drones seem to 'forget' the command issued to them, and switch targets. This can happen numerous times if the distance is large enough.
Drone groups reset themselves after a patch which can cause arrangement issues, especially if you are in a carrier. (This is most likely linked to the fact that entire settings can be reset at a patch).
We were told (sorry Greyscale, this is a 'so and so said' one, though it was a Dev Blog) that a specific person was/would be hired specifically to deal with drone issues. What has happened to him/her? Can we get an update please?
Variously, devs have stated they have not been aware at all of any issues with drones. Can we get at least an acknowledgement that these are issues we have?
Secondly, there are some ideas we would like to implement with drones.
Mappable keyboard controls for drones
Once a target has been destroyed, the ability for all drones to switch to the same target
'Standing orders' for drones given certain situations, settable before release/combat - such as 'standby', 'engage all enemies', 'defend only' etc.
Formations for drones/drone groups.
Priority lists for targets, including the ability to tell drones to ignore certain enemy types
Allow a 'cool-down' period after emergency warping (this is usually due to a client crash) so when the player logs back in, the drones are still registered under his name, and he can regain control of them when warped back.
Lastly, and separately as I'm not sure if this is an issue or a request - drone aggro in missions. We know there is a 'aggro field' around the major groups of aggro (in missions that still have this), across which if anything flies it gets targetted by that group. We also know that NPCs shoot back at whatever shot them first - ergo, if the enemy hasn't targetted you, and the drone shoots at the NPC, it will shoot back. That is fine. What we don't understand is that when NPCs spawn in the new trigger system, the drones are considered valid targets. Is this by design? If so, can the 'ownership' of the drones be transferred to the rats, and the rats attack the controlling ship?
Please keep this post very short, and very concise. It is more an aid to the devs than a true 'discussion' thread. To be honest, most of it has been discussed to death anyway.
-J'Mkarr Soban
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Valandril
Caldari
Resurrection
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.07.22 19:29:00 -
[2]
/signed
and make possible playing with carrier on 1024x768 res (drone ui)
---
Not replying to alts, post with ur main or STFU |
Murehz
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Posted - 2007.07.22 19:47:00 -
[3]
I know you said this isn't for discussion but I would only sign for the second part if similar changes are made for fof missiles.
Apart from that...
/signed.
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Elipsis
Gallente
The Mission Guys
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Posted - 2007.07.22 20:06:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Elipsis on 22/07/2007 20:09:23
 Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
Drones regularly warp back to the ship and stop 10-15m outside of scoop range. The only solution is to stop and move towards them
Should two drones cross at the same point with the same vector, they become 'stuck' together. The only solution is to send one of them away to something else, breaking their trajectories.
Through whatever reason, it can take multiple attempts to issue a command to a drone before it responds. This could be due to lag, desync, or something hidden, given that this can happen in an empty system.
If the drones are required to travel a long time (general concensus is around 30km at heavy drone speeds) the drones seem to 'forget' the command issued to them, and switch targets. This can happen numerous times if the distance is large enough.
I have experienced every single one of these issues in the past couple of weeks.
I agree it would be nice to at least get an acknowledgment of these being known problems.
(edit: shouldn't this be under "Known Issues and Workarounds" instead of "Ships and Modules"?)
-...
CEO and Founder of the Mission Guys |
Zo5o
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Posted - 2007.07.22 20:32:00 -
[5]
I've also had sentries shoot at and aggro rats in missions who weren't previously aggroed on me or the drones. |
DannyMoe
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Posted - 2007.07.22 21:18:00 -
[6]
signed \o/
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Pheushia Marcellus
Red Frog Investments
Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.22 22:25:00 -
[7]
Would be great, you got my vote.
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Helen
STK Scientific
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.22 23:00:00 -
[8]
Think of the poor carrier pilots too! Sort that crappy UI out.
STK providing Mothership deaths since 2007 |
bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.07.22 23:40:00 -
[9]
With regards to the drones forgetting there orders.
I've experienced and i it seem sto happen at 45km, every single time. Basically when you order a drone to a target more then 45km away, the " standard " max control range, as soon as they get 45km distant from you they do a 180 and try to come straight back.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Elipsis
Gallente
The Mission Guys
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Posted - 2007.07.23 02:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: bldyannoyed
With regards to the drones forgetting there orders.
I've experienced and i it seem sto happen at 45km, every single time. Basically when you order a drone to a target more then 45km away, the " standard " max control range, as soon as they get 45km distant from you they do a 180 and try to come straight back.
Hmm... I'll check the range carefully next time this happens. If it really is that exact range it will be helpful to be prepared for the U-turn (and it would also help the development team troubleshoot it more accurately).
-...
CEO and Founder of the Mission Guys |
Transcention Universia
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Posted - 2007.07.23 05:51:00 -
[11]
As I have always been a pet class type character and intend to use drones pretty heavily in my setups I totally endorse this particular thread and think these issues need to be responded to by the devs.
The reason World of Warcraft is so incredably super successful as a game is because of all the attention to detail they put into things like their UI and how pets are controlled.
Simple things like being able to map keys to control drones makes a huge difference to the gameplay experience. It would be great to have more control over drones preferably mapped to keys. For that matter it would be great to be able to map all aspects of controlling a ship to keys including all weapons.
But yeh I would like to see some dev responses to improving the life of drone users for this game.
Is there any development in relation to drones planned in terms of making them easier to utilize in the battlefield or not?
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Zosimos Sabina
Tritanium Workers Union
Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.23 06:35:00 -
[12]
I would like to add:
Please balance the EM drones. They honestly have nothing going for them at this moment compared to the other drones.
This is reflected by the price of EM drones...
------------------------------------------------
»\(¦_o)/» |
Jak Sparra
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Posted - 2007.07.23 09:40:00 -
[13]
signed \o/
Also, i'd just like to add, that the drones sticking together is a fairly regular thing, (I only use drones to rat with in my dom). I think it happens more often when they have bounced of a roid, and one has 'bounced' into another.
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Sin Meng
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.07.23 10:01:00 -
[14]
Signed!
-------------------------
Ritalin = drone fix LAWL. |
CasC
Gallente
Confederation of Red Moon
Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.23 10:24:00 -
[15]
/signed
---------------------------------------------
Watching PvP in EVE is like watching a horde of blindfolded Monkeys in heat trying to have sex - |
Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.23 10:45:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Aramendel on 23/07/2007 10:49:00
/signed as well
Also, as one suggestion about the issue of drones stopping a few m from your ship or sticking together, which I think is both due to them colliding with each other - could that not be simply fixed by making drones "incorporal", aka removing their bouncing spheres.
The only negative sideffect would be that they could fly "through" roids like missiles can, but I wouldn't see that as huge problem.
Originally by: Murehz
I know you said this isn't for discussion but I would only sign for the second part if similar changes are made for fof missiles.
FoF missiles always attack the nearest target. Personally I would be *very* happy if that would be the case with drones as well for choosing their next target, it would be an huge improvement to the current state.
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Buster Terrik
Warhamsters
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.23 10:48:00 -
[17]
/signed
-------
When i fly, in my mind
I get away just in time.
I'll wait the wait, fly away...
I only want it for today. |
Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Free Traders
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Posted - 2007.07.23 11:15:00 -
[18]
Hmm. I almost fully agree.
I do not fly a carrier, but I can use Vexor and Myrmidon (and have been belt rating in 0.0 with them). I came to the conclusion, that most of the issues are connected with drone groups.
1. When I have my drones grouped, I NEVER experience following behavior:
Drones getting stuck on each other.
Drones not returning to ship.
Drones not following orders (tho there is a delay sometimes).
2. The remaining issues are ALWAYS present:
Drones forgeting orders after some time/distance traveled withou engaging target.
Drones do not aggro as a group after target destroyed.
I fully support the UI/shortcut requests. Drone management is a PITA in current UI state.
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls.... 
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Murehz
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Posted - 2007.07.23 11:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zosimos Sabina
I would like to add:
Please balance the EM drones. They honestly have nothing going for them at this moment compared to the other drones.
This is reflected by the price of EM drones...
Imo that is what they have going for them - they are so lovingly cheap.
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Murehz
I know you said this isn't for discussion but I would only sign for the second part if similar changes are made for fof missiles.
FoF missiles always attack the nearest target. Personally I would be *very* happy if that would be the case with drones as well for choosing their next target, it would be an huge improvement to the current state.
I was thinking more about being able to prioritze targets and tell them to not attack certain things.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.23 11:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
1. When I have my drones grouped, I NEVER experience following behavior:
Drones getting stuck on each other.
Drones not returning to ship.
Drones not following orders (tho there is a delay sometimes).
Happened to me with drone groups.
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TimMc
The Caldari Confederation
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Posted - 2007.07.23 12:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
1. When I have my drones grouped, I NEVER experience following behavior:
Drones getting stuck on each other.
Drones not returning to ship.
Drones not following orders (tho there is a delay sometimes).
Happened to me with drone groups.
Happens to me all the time and I use drone groups.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.23 13:05:00 -
[22]
Thanks to everyone for their support, and I hope you don't take offence but if we keep it as clean as possible, there's more chance it'll get noticed. So unless you have something to add, or an observation to make something easier to test, please don't post.
Originally by: Aramendel
Edited by: Aramendel on 23/07/2007 10:49:00
Also, as one suggestion about the issue of drones stopping a few m from your ship or sticking together, which I think is both due to them colliding with each other - could that not be simply fixed by making drones "incorporal", aka removing their bouncing spheres.
Alas, I have experienced this with single drones. Though this is exactly the kind of observations that are brilliant for this kind of post, as it will help devs look at it.
-J
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Free Traders
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Posted - 2007.07.23 13:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
1. When I have my drones grouped, I NEVER experience following behavior:
Drones getting stuck on each other.
Drones not returning to ship.
Drones not following orders (tho there is a delay sometimes).
Happened to me with drone groups.
Happens to me all the time and I use drone groups.
The issues happened to me regardles of grouped or not preRMR. Since RMR I had no problems with drones as described in my original post.
Seems the issues are somewhat misterious to reproduce ... I'll have to try the test server for this.
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.23 13:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Seems the issues are somewhat misterious to reproduce ... I'll have to try the test server for this.
From what I can gather, these drone issues are varying between people. I, for one, have only noticed the 'going off half way through flying' bug once, when I used heavy drones. I've had the 'stuck on each other' bug twice, but I generally micro-manage my drones anyway. I've had the 'stops 10m behind' only the once, and I think there was some bouncing with the wreck on my tractor beam involved there.
I rarely get any lag what-so-ever, even in Motsu, and apart from the brief lag spike when they are launched, they respond perfectly well.
Which makes it all so so hard to pin down and say 'here are the repreduceable measures taken' and could be why some of the devs have never seen it.
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.23 14:59:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 23/07/2007 14:59:42
I'd add a few things I'd like to see...
- "flag target" command for drones. Drones target only the flagged targets.
- target in range of : targets automatically all hostiles target in range of your current target.
- another bug : you can tell your drones to attack (let's say at 39 km), move away, so they are at 45 km, while your maximum range is 40. While it certainly is convenient, it doesn't make sense. They should go back.
- make them move in group is already said above, I repeat it because it's badly needed. Really.
- for the drones switching targets problem, in my experience, it's not connected to distance, but time. Every minute or so the target may change.
-- Siggie ! Come back here ! --
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: MotherMoon
well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job
Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract |
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 10:34:00 -
[26]
I'm going to bump this every few days, hopefully a dev will see it eventually. Even if they could reply to say that they'd seen it and had taken note of it, it would be appreciated :-)
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Engelsmutter
The Blue Omega Gene
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Posted - 2007.07.26 10:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
I'm going to bump this every few days, hopefully a dev will see it eventually. Even if they could reply to say that they'd seen it and had taken note of it, it would be appreciated :-)
Thanks for bumping and /signed, this thread sums it up very well :-)
Eh-m000 out |
Firecrak
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.26 10:52:00 -
[28]
/Signed...please fix our furry mechanical friends
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Drachma Golea
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.07.26 12:09:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Drachma Golea on 26/07/2007 12:09:58
 Drone attributes are not according to the skills and bonusses
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RedeyeAce
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Posted - 2007.07.26 12:28:00 -
[30]
I'll sign this one as well, but after tryng my own post and signing others.. Where is the love.. no point us banging our heads on a brick wall if no -ones listening. And yes i'd also love to know what happened to the Drone person / team that should of started 6 months ago, if theyve moved departments or no-one cares about drones .then let us know whats going on... dont dangle the preverbial carrott and then not mention it ever again.
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