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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
   |
Posted - 2007.07.22 19:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 22/07/2007 19:20:59
This summation thread is in response to the 'good things' that Greyscale mentioned in this post. Basically, it is a summary of all the issues, problems, and requests that have appeared over the past, well 4 years. I am not infallible, if I have missed anything please, post it, but post it concisely, and don't repeat what I've already posted. This thread is designed simply as a summary for a dev to come look at, so we maybe get even a 'we're working on it' response. The less the post is cluttered with comment, the more chance that is.
The ones I have listed below have cropped up numerous times, and offered by many people.
Drones have a number of issues.
Drones regularly warp back to the ship and stop 10-15m outside of scoop range. The only solution is to stop and move towards them
Should two drones cross at the same point with the same vector, they become 'stuck' together. The only solution is to send one of them away to something else, breaking their trajectories.
Through whatever reason, it can take multiple attempts to issue a command to a drone before it responds. This could be due to lag, desync, or something hidden, given that this can happen in an empty system.
If the drones are required to travel a long time (general concensus is around 30km at heavy drone speeds) the drones seem to 'forget' the command issued to them, and switch targets. This can happen numerous times if the distance is large enough.
Drone groups reset themselves after a patch which can cause arrangement issues, especially if you are in a carrier. (This is most likely linked to the fact that entire settings can be reset at a patch).
We were told (sorry Greyscale, this is a 'so and so said' one, though it was a Dev Blog) that a specific person was/would be hired specifically to deal with drone issues. What has happened to him/her? Can we get an update please?
Variously, devs have stated they have not been aware at all of any issues with drones. Can we get at least an acknowledgement that these are issues we have?
Secondly, there are some ideas we would like to implement with drones.
Mappable keyboard controls for drones
Once a target has been destroyed, the ability for all drones to switch to the same target
'Standing orders' for drones given certain situations, settable before release/combat - such as 'standby', 'engage all enemies', 'defend only' etc.
Formations for drones/drone groups.
Priority lists for targets, including the ability to tell drones to ignore certain enemy types
Allow a 'cool-down' period after emergency warping (this is usually due to a client crash) so when the player logs back in, the drones are still registered under his name, and he can regain control of them when warped back.
Lastly, and separately as I'm not sure if this is an issue or a request - drone aggro in missions. We know there is a 'aggro field' around the major groups of aggro (in missions that still have this), across which if anything flies it gets targetted by that group. We also know that NPCs shoot back at whatever shot them first - ergo, if the enemy hasn't targetted you, and the drone shoots at the NPC, it will shoot back. That is fine. What we don't understand is that when NPCs spawn in the new trigger system, the drones are considered valid targets. Is this by design? If so, can the 'ownership' of the drones be transferred to the rats, and the rats attack the controlling ship?
Please keep this post very short, and very concise. It is more an aid to the devs than a true 'discussion' thread. To be honest, most of it has been discussed to death anyway.
-J'Mkarr Soban
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Valandril
Caldari
Resurrection
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.07.22 19:29:00 -
[2]
/signed
and make possible playing with carrier on 1024x768 res (drone ui)
---
Not replying to alts, post with ur main or STFU |
Murehz
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Posted - 2007.07.22 19:47:00 -
[3]
I know you said this isn't for discussion but I would only sign for the second part if similar changes are made for fof missiles.
Apart from that...
/signed.
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Elipsis
Gallente
The Mission Guys
|
Posted - 2007.07.22 20:06:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Elipsis on 22/07/2007 20:09:23
 Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
Drones regularly warp back to the ship and stop 10-15m outside of scoop range. The only solution is to stop and move towards them
Should two drones cross at the same point with the same vector, they become 'stuck' together. The only solution is to send one of them away to something else, breaking their trajectories.
Through whatever reason, it can take multiple attempts to issue a command to a drone before it responds. This could be due to lag, desync, or something hidden, given that this can happen in an empty system.
If the drones are required to travel a long time (general concensus is around 30km at heavy drone speeds) the drones seem to 'forget' the command issued to them, and switch targets. This can happen numerous times if the distance is large enough.
I have experienced every single one of these issues in the past couple of weeks.
I agree it would be nice to at least get an acknowledgment of these being known problems.
(edit: shouldn't this be under "Known Issues and Workarounds" instead of "Ships and Modules"?)
-...
CEO and Founder of the Mission Guys |
Zo5o
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Posted - 2007.07.22 20:32:00 -
[5]
I've also had sentries shoot at and aggro rats in missions who weren't previously aggroed on me or the drones. |
DannyMoe
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Posted - 2007.07.22 21:18:00 -
[6]
signed \o/
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Pheushia Marcellus
Red Frog Investments
Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.22 22:25:00 -
[7]
Would be great, you got my vote.
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Helen
STK Scientific
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.22 23:00:00 -
[8]
Think of the poor carrier pilots too! Sort that crappy UI out.
STK providing Mothership deaths since 2007 |
bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.07.22 23:40:00 -
[9]
With regards to the drones forgetting there orders.
I've experienced and i it seem sto happen at 45km, every single time. Basically when you order a drone to a target more then 45km away, the " standard " max control range, as soon as they get 45km distant from you they do a 180 and try to come straight back.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Elipsis
Gallente
The Mission Guys
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 02:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: bldyannoyed
With regards to the drones forgetting there orders.
I've experienced and i it seem sto happen at 45km, every single time. Basically when you order a drone to a target more then 45km away, the " standard " max control range, as soon as they get 45km distant from you they do a 180 and try to come straight back.
Hmm... I'll check the range carefully next time this happens. If it really is that exact range it will be helpful to be prepared for the U-turn (and it would also help the development team troubleshoot it more accurately).
-...
CEO and Founder of the Mission Guys |
Transcention Universia
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Posted - 2007.07.23 05:51:00 -
[11]
As I have always been a pet class type character and intend to use drones pretty heavily in my setups I totally endorse this particular thread and think these issues need to be responded to by the devs.
The reason World of Warcraft is so incredably super successful as a game is because of all the attention to detail they put into things like their UI and how pets are controlled.
Simple things like being able to map keys to control drones makes a huge difference to the gameplay experience. It would be great to have more control over drones preferably mapped to keys. For that matter it would be great to be able to map all aspects of controlling a ship to keys including all weapons.
But yeh I would like to see some dev responses to improving the life of drone users for this game.
Is there any development in relation to drones planned in terms of making them easier to utilize in the battlefield or not?
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Zosimos Sabina
Tritanium Workers Union
Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.23 06:35:00 -
[12]
I would like to add:
Please balance the EM drones. They honestly have nothing going for them at this moment compared to the other drones.
This is reflected by the price of EM drones...
------------------------------------------------
»\(¦_o)/» |
Jak Sparra
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Posted - 2007.07.23 09:40:00 -
[13]
signed \o/
Also, i'd just like to add, that the drones sticking together is a fairly regular thing, (I only use drones to rat with in my dom). I think it happens more often when they have bounced of a roid, and one has 'bounced' into another.
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Sin Meng
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.07.23 10:01:00 -
[14]
Signed!
-------------------------
Ritalin = drone fix LAWL. |
CasC
Gallente
Confederation of Red Moon
Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.23 10:24:00 -
[15]
/signed
---------------------------------------------
Watching PvP in EVE is like watching a horde of blindfolded Monkeys in heat trying to have sex - |
Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 10:45:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Aramendel on 23/07/2007 10:49:00
/signed as well
Also, as one suggestion about the issue of drones stopping a few m from your ship or sticking together, which I think is both due to them colliding with each other - could that not be simply fixed by making drones "incorporal", aka removing their bouncing spheres.
The only negative sideffect would be that they could fly "through" roids like missiles can, but I wouldn't see that as huge problem.
Originally by: Murehz
I know you said this isn't for discussion but I would only sign for the second part if similar changes are made for fof missiles.
FoF missiles always attack the nearest target. Personally I would be *very* happy if that would be the case with drones as well for choosing their next target, it would be an huge improvement to the current state.
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Buster Terrik
Warhamsters
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 10:48:00 -
[17]
/signed
-------
When i fly, in my mind
I get away just in time.
I'll wait the wait, fly away...
I only want it for today. |
Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Free Traders
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 11:15:00 -
[18]
Hmm. I almost fully agree.
I do not fly a carrier, but I can use Vexor and Myrmidon (and have been belt rating in 0.0 with them). I came to the conclusion, that most of the issues are connected with drone groups.
1. When I have my drones grouped, I NEVER experience following behavior:
Drones getting stuck on each other.
Drones not returning to ship.
Drones not following orders (tho there is a delay sometimes).
2. The remaining issues are ALWAYS present:
Drones forgeting orders after some time/distance traveled withou engaging target.
Drones do not aggro as a group after target destroyed.
I fully support the UI/shortcut requests. Drone management is a PITA in current UI state.
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls.... 
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Murehz
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Posted - 2007.07.23 11:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zosimos Sabina
I would like to add:
Please balance the EM drones. They honestly have nothing going for them at this moment compared to the other drones.
This is reflected by the price of EM drones...
Imo that is what they have going for them - they are so lovingly cheap.
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Murehz
I know you said this isn't for discussion but I would only sign for the second part if similar changes are made for fof missiles.
FoF missiles always attack the nearest target. Personally I would be *very* happy if that would be the case with drones as well for choosing their next target, it would be an huge improvement to the current state.
I was thinking more about being able to prioritze targets and tell them to not attack certain things.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 11:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
1. When I have my drones grouped, I NEVER experience following behavior:
Drones getting stuck on each other.
Drones not returning to ship.
Drones not following orders (tho there is a delay sometimes).
Happened to me with drone groups.
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TimMc
The Caldari Confederation
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Posted - 2007.07.23 12:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
1. When I have my drones grouped, I NEVER experience following behavior:
Drones getting stuck on each other.
Drones not returning to ship.
Drones not following orders (tho there is a delay sometimes).
Happened to me with drone groups.
Happens to me all the time and I use drone groups.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 13:05:00 -
[22]
Thanks to everyone for their support, and I hope you don't take offence but if we keep it as clean as possible, there's more chance it'll get noticed. So unless you have something to add, or an observation to make something easier to test, please don't post.
Originally by: Aramendel
Edited by: Aramendel on 23/07/2007 10:49:00
Also, as one suggestion about the issue of drones stopping a few m from your ship or sticking together, which I think is both due to them colliding with each other - could that not be simply fixed by making drones "incorporal", aka removing their bouncing spheres.
Alas, I have experienced this with single drones. Though this is exactly the kind of observations that are brilliant for this kind of post, as it will help devs look at it.
-J
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Free Traders
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 13:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
1. When I have my drones grouped, I NEVER experience following behavior:
Drones getting stuck on each other.
Drones not returning to ship.
Drones not following orders (tho there is a delay sometimes).
Happened to me with drone groups.
Happens to me all the time and I use drone groups.
The issues happened to me regardles of grouped or not preRMR. Since RMR I had no problems with drones as described in my original post.
Seems the issues are somewhat misterious to reproduce ... I'll have to try the test server for this.
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 13:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Seems the issues are somewhat misterious to reproduce ... I'll have to try the test server for this.
From what I can gather, these drone issues are varying between people. I, for one, have only noticed the 'going off half way through flying' bug once, when I used heavy drones. I've had the 'stuck on each other' bug twice, but I generally micro-manage my drones anyway. I've had the 'stops 10m behind' only the once, and I think there was some bouncing with the wreck on my tractor beam involved there.
I rarely get any lag what-so-ever, even in Motsu, and apart from the brief lag spike when they are launched, they respond perfectly well.
Which makes it all so so hard to pin down and say 'here are the repreduceable measures taken' and could be why some of the devs have never seen it.
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 14:59:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 23/07/2007 14:59:42
I'd add a few things I'd like to see...
- "flag target" command for drones. Drones target only the flagged targets.
- target in range of : targets automatically all hostiles target in range of your current target.
- another bug : you can tell your drones to attack (let's say at 39 km), move away, so they are at 45 km, while your maximum range is 40. While it certainly is convenient, it doesn't make sense. They should go back.
- make them move in group is already said above, I repeat it because it's badly needed. Really.
- for the drones switching targets problem, in my experience, it's not connected to distance, but time. Every minute or so the target may change.
-- Siggie ! Come back here ! --
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: MotherMoon
well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job
Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract |
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 10:34:00 -
[26]
I'm going to bump this every few days, hopefully a dev will see it eventually. Even if they could reply to say that they'd seen it and had taken note of it, it would be appreciated :-)
|
Engelsmutter
The Blue Omega Gene
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Posted - 2007.07.26 10:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
I'm going to bump this every few days, hopefully a dev will see it eventually. Even if they could reply to say that they'd seen it and had taken note of it, it would be appreciated :-)
Thanks for bumping and /signed, this thread sums it up very well :-)
Eh-m000 out |
Firecrak
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 10:52:00 -
[28]
/Signed...please fix our furry mechanical friends
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Drachma Golea
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.07.26 12:09:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Drachma Golea on 26/07/2007 12:09:58
 Drone attributes are not according to the skills and bonusses
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RedeyeAce
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Posted - 2007.07.26 12:28:00 -
[30]
I'll sign this one as well, but after tryng my own post and signing others.. Where is the love.. no point us banging our heads on a brick wall if no -ones listening. And yes i'd also love to know what happened to the Drone person / team that should of started 6 months ago, if theyve moved departments or no-one cares about drones .then let us know whats going on... dont dangle the preverbial carrott and then not mention it ever again.
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Marcus Ailichi
Lonely Maple Prospecting Group
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Posted - 2007.07.26 12:28:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Marcus Ailichi on 26/07/2007 12:29:56
Damnit you totally stole idea of this thread from my mind 
Anyway people please, don't turn this into another megathread by starting to argue about some minor point. Also /signed messages are kinda useless, if you agree don't say it, if you don't do. Issues posted here should ofcourse be ones that most of the community agrees on so pleeaase don't post things that are widely argued. Also OP should add every new issue to original post for ease of reading. It's your responsibilty now, be prepared to do it :)
EDIT: Oh lol it's "Concise Drone Summary, for Dev Analysis" :D How about changing topic to include ALL issues in EVE and list them in original post. That would be very useful for devs and even for us normal people I bet :)
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 12:47:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Marcus Ailichi
Edited by: Marcus Ailichi on 26/07/2007 12:29:56
Damnit you totally stole idea of this thread from my mind
Anyway people please, don't turn this into another megathread by starting to argue about some minor point. Also /signed messages are kinda useless, if you agree don't say it, if you don't do. Issues posted here should ofcourse be ones that most of the community agrees on so pleeaase don't post things that are widely argued. Also OP should add every new issue to original post for ease of reading. It's your responsibilty now, be prepared to do it :)
EDIT: Oh lol it's "Concise Drone Summary, for Dev Analysis" :D How about changing topic to include ALL issues in EVE and list them in original post. That would be very useful for devs and even for us normal people I bet :)
I'm running out of characters to update with new things as it is (and if you'd check, you'd have seen that I have been  ) I totally forgot to reserve the next one.
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Althea Nar'agh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 13:01:00 -
[33]
I do agree more or less with the OP.
One thing, drones forgetting stuff after a long travel is not a bug but a feature...
No, am serious, it _is_ a feature... it's for the case where the npc would mwd away and your drones going after it but not fast enough to actually catch it... you would get your drones at stupid distances out unable to control them and unable to catch them... so to avoid this, they made that if drones can not engage after a while they'll just "forget about it"... yeh i know it sux, but that's the intended functionality...
--------------------------
War. War never changes
EvE Training Monitor - A Google Gadget Now with wallet data. |
OneSock
Silentia Mortalis
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 13:43:00 -
[34]
What I would like would be the following drone commands:
1. Attack Weakest
2. Attack Closest
3. Attack Strongest.
This actually covers a lot of bases. Nothing worse than a drone deciding to go attack a BS 50km away when there is a Cruiser less than 5km away.
I don't fully agree with the drones operating as a single group. I do like it when 5 heavy drones each select a different frigate to pop. Saves me some time giving them directions. But if you could creat your own grouping then fair enough.
It would also be nice to assign drone priority to your active targets.
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OneSock
Silentia Mortalis
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 13:45:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Althea Nar'agh
I do agree more or less with the OP.
One thing, drones forgetting stuff after a long travel is not a bug but a feature...
No, am serious, it _is_ a feature... it's for the case where the npc would mwd away and your drones going after it but not fast enough to actually catch it... you would get your drones at stupid distances out unable to control them and unable to catch them... so to avoid this, they made that if drones can not engage after a while they'll just "forget about it"... yeh i know it sux, but that's the intended functionality...
Except they have never actually admitted this "fact".
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 14:15:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Althea Nar'agh
I do agree more or less with the OP.
One thing, drones forgetting stuff after a long travel is not a bug but a feature...
No, am serious, it _is_ a feature... it's for the case where the npc would mwd away and your drones going after it but not fast enough to actually catch it... you would get your drones at stupid distances out unable to control them and unable to catch them... so to avoid this, they made that if drones can not engage after a while they'll just "forget about it"... yeh i know it sux, but that's the intended functionality...
I don't quite know what it is you are agreeing with - agreeing with empirical observations? Seems a bit silly . But thanks anyway.
Now that you mention it, I have read this. But to be quite frank, if this is a feature, then why haven't they implemented more of drone AI? Cause that's what this is, the drones behaving on their own accord given certain rules. Either don't do it at all and let the pilot deal with it (which it pretty much is at present) or go the whole hog and give them full proper AI.
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Murphy McMillakin
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 14:29:00 -
[37]
/signed
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Althea Nar'agh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 14:29:00 -
[38]
Yep I agree with you...
there, did it again :p
--------------------------
War. War never changes
EvE Training Monitor - A Google Gadget Now with wallet data. |
kaeri
Gallente
Kaeri Corp
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 14:33:00 -
[39]
/signed
4m sp in drones and they do STUPID things all the time......"no go shoot thatship....NO....that....NO THAT ú$$%ú$! Ship.....gahhh I give up..."
[Kaeri] |
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2007.07.26 15:42:00 -
[40]
I need to visit Ships and Modules more often
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys
Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 15:53:00 -
[41]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I need to visit Ships and Modules more often
QFT and celebrations.
Post count: 304951
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 16:15:00 -
[42]
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 26/07/2007 16:20:20
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I need to visit Ships and Modules more often
You rock. First ever proper dev response. Do we win for following your guidelines? :-D
Also, this is a request not to drown the poor man. This is a constructive thread, we're trying to help out. No whining, no sidetracking, and no *****ing please. We might scare away the lesser spotted ccpus devus, which would be a tragedy 
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.26 16:18:00 -
[43]
/signed so much.
Please look into this.
---
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Garat Mant
Minmatar
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2007.07.26 16:48:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Garat Mant on 26/07/2007 16:52:58
/signed.
Drone "flyout" window draggable to any corner/edge of the screen. In collapsed mode shows drones in icon mode grouped by any player created groups. Icons show drone action (attack/mine/nothing) and status (circle around icon divided into thirds, armour/shield/hull)
In open mode (by mouseover or click), shows distance from ship and more detail. Possibly other cool actions via various control icons.
Keyboard shortcut for player created drone groups to attack target. Example: 3 light drones in "light" group and 2 medium in "medium" group. select frigate in locked target list and hit one shortcut for light group, then select cruiser and hit shortcut for medium group.
More advanced: Able to give drones "orders": Attack only NPC frigates. Attack only NPCs. Attack only Players. Attack only drones. Return to ship if <50% shield. Give Priority to Nearest ships. Give Priority to webbing/scrambling ships. Suicide-ram current target if < 50% hull.
Edit: Look at Final Fantasy 12's gambit system, you can stack orders, prioritize etc. Make it skill based - Drone Orders, 1 extra drone order per skill level :-)
These more advanced commands could be tied into more player-like NPC behaviour templates. Such as "Attack weakest Player", "Retreat if <50% tank, re-engage when >80%". "Scramble players targeting ship X or Y".
Greyscale, thanks for looking at these threads. I know that the forums are full of BS, flames and immaturity, but there are nuggets of pure gold hidden away. Maybe hire some interns to run through them all! ;-)
-G
--
Nothing I say represents my corp. Unless I say otherwise. |
Neramore
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 16:55:00 -
[45]
Agree with the OP items.
Personally, I wish Logistics drones worked on the controlling ship. The fact that isn't possible really breaks the believability of EVE, in my opinion. I mean, my own drones can't repair my own ship?
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Reecoh Soltar
Exotic Dancer Talent Agency
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Posted - 2007.07.26 16:59:00 -
[46]
Excellent job OP!
One thing I noticed related to the drones changing targets: When the target my drones are attacking pops, if I try to give them a new target before they pick one themselves then they tend to ignore my command. I have to wait until they cycle from fighting to idle to fighting again (i.e pick their own targets)and then I can issue a new order that they will usually follow.
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katz3
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 17:12:00 -
[47]
/signed
Have been waiting for drone fixes for over a year now... 
___________________
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Fritty
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:22:00 -
[48]
I agree with all the above problems, i have experienced all of them.
/signed
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RedeyeAce
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:10:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I need to visit Ships and Modules more often
/me rubs eyes
YAY for Greyscale, now lets see if you put your money where your mouth is 
Anychance we can get an update as to whether there is this developer / team of developers working on drones from 6+months ago and if so any ideas on what their fixing and implementation dates.. Pretty Please
Go on, theres a whole crate of Quafe Ultra in it!!!!!
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Sharker2k3
Minmatar
Outlaw-Star
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:17:00 -
[50]
/signed
good post.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Luna Rossa Corporation
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 18:54:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Neramore
Agree with the OP items.
Personally, I wish Logistics drones worked on the controlling ship. The fact that isn't possible really breaks the believability of EVE, in my opinion. I mean, my own drones can't repair my own ship?
I IMAGINE it's for balance reasons, since how much easier would level 4 missions be if you had five drones tanking for you? BUT it makes absolutely no sense in the greater picture that they can't be used on yourself. So I agree with you.
Either repair drones should be completely removed from the game, or they should work on your own ship.
-----
I think it's little enough to ask that every Amarrian roll over and die so I can live in my vision of a perfect world. |
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp
Pride - Honor - Duty
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 19:41:00 -
[52]
I agree completely with the OP, all ideas included are also excellent, very good summary.
And OMG is that sum CCP in a drone thread? We need more people like Greyscale working these forums over, keeping us and the devs clued up.
|
Vitrael
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 19:55:00 -
[53]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I need to visit Ships and Modules more often
Dev response in a drone thread! MADNESS!
Great thoughts by the OP.
|
voidvim
Minmatar
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.26 21:41:00 -
[54]
/signed
I've had most of these problem at one time
|
N1fty
Amarr
Galactic Shipyards Inc
HUZZAH FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2007.07.27 09:24:00 -
[55]
Amarr drones do the worst damage, have smallest shields, and as such are rarely used. Ok they are very cheap, but thats because nobody uses them in comparison to the others.
When was the last time you saw a Praetor in combat? Honestly I have never seen them used in all my years of playing.
============================================
|
Kaid Tallinu
Gallente
SHAPE
|
Posted - 2007.07.27 10:36:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ares Lightfeather
Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 23/07/2007 14:59:42
I'd add a few things I'd like to see...
- "flag target" command for drones. Drones target only the flagged targets.
A little off-topic, I'd like it if we could tag targets without being in a gang... would be handy for marking the triggers in missions. Perhaps we should be able to put a tag on targets that says "don't shoot this". Then, if the drones could look at the tags... would this fit the bill?
|
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.27 10:41:00 -
[57]
Originally by: N1fty
Amarr drones do the worst damage, have smallest shields, and as such are rarely used. Ok they are very cheap, but thats because nobody uses them in comparison to the others.
When was the last time you saw a Praetor in combat? Honestly I have never seen them used in all my years of playing.
I think this is more to do with the greater problem of imbalance with EM damage across the board. All drones have the same amount of defence over-all (shield+armour, IIRC) per tier and tech level, so that isn't really a good indication of any other imbalance. That's like saying the Abaddon is rubbish because it has less shields than the Rokh.
-----------------------------
"Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow."
"Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?"
"..." |
General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
|
Posted - 2007.07.27 10:53:00 -
[58]
signed and look twice at the fighters pls they still don't mwd back to me or maybe just gallente fighters do thaqt 
goon = A fool, or someone considered silly |
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2007.07.27 11:11:00 -
[59]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I need to visit Ships and Modules more often
Would be good to split this channel up. One for ship setups and one for actually discussing ships and modules not working, being bugged or general flying advice.
---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
|
LUH 3471
|
Posted - 2007.07.27 11:13:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Would be good to split this channel up. One for ship setups and one for actually discussing ships and modules not working, being bugged or general flying advice.
/signed
|
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.27 11:17:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I need to visit Ships and Modules more often
Would be good to split this channel up. One for ship setups and one for actually discussing ships and modules not working, being bugged or general flying advice.
That's a fair point. It would mean important things like this are fairly likely to be on the front page.
-----------------------------
"Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow."
"Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?"
"..." |
N1fty
Amarr
Galactic Shipyards Inc
HUZZAH FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2007.07.27 12:21:00 -
[62]
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
Originally by: N1fty
Amarr drones do the worst damage, have smallest shields, and as such are rarely used. -snip-
I think this is more to do with the greater problem of imbalance with EM damage across the board. All drones have the same amount of defence over-all (shield+armour, IIRC) per tier and tech level, so that isn't really a good indication of any other imbalance. That's like saying the Abaddon is rubbish because it has less shields than the Rokh.
Except that a Drone with Higher shields than armor can be scooped to dronebay when its damaged and then launched with shields recharged. Amarr drones have tiny shields and so cannot do this to the same extent.
Using the tracking calculator I did some calculations based on a stock Thorax and one drone of each type unaffected by skills.
Transversal is set to 500, in order to allow for drones different tracking speeds, but they all have negligable difference.
DPS Against Armor:
Hammerhead I : 5.89
Infiltrator I : 2.68
Valkyrie I : 6.81
Vespa I : 5.39
DPS Against Shields:
Hammerhead I : 7.25
Infiltrator I : 6.7
Valkyrie I : 3.03
Vespa I : 4.98
Average DPS:
Hammerhead I : 6.57
Infiltrator I : 4.69
Valkyrie I : 4.92
Vespa I : 5.185
Hammers have mich higer average DPS after resists than all the other drones, which are vaguely balanced but Infiltrators come last.
The only time Infiltrators do even damage to Hammers is when transversal is ramped up to 1500 but then Valkyrie's are your best bet in high transversal scenarios because they have higher average DPS here.
If we take tanks into account then a shieldtanker will slap EM resists on or Invuls, which means EM will be at least halved [EM to worst DPS] or all damage types will be reduced equally[EM stays 2nd].
Looking at a 3 hardner shieldtank then Therm are still first with EM second.
Armor tanks these days are largely Omni tanks which reduce damage equally across the board so EM stays in last while Therm stays 1st.
If we were to use an old school 3 Hardner tank them EM and Kin are tied last, Therm clear second and Exp 1st.
So even when EM drones are shooting at the lowest resist [on shields and armor] of all the drones, they still lose out to Thermal! To me it seems that Thermal drones lower tracking does not compensate enough for their huge damage in comparison to all other drones, resulting in an overpowered drone which is reflected in its cost.
As a sidenote about EM damage today:
The only reason EM damage used to work is because nobody would tank EM on armor as 3 hardners would be used on the other resists, making EM the weakspot in tanking scenarios. This is no longer the case with Omni-armor tanking and EM's found to profoundly lacking. It was never a problem before passive resistance skills came in, coupled with damage controls. To fix this: nerf omni-tanks, or increase EM damage, or reduce base EM resists.
============================================
|
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.28 10:45:00 -
[63]
Bump :-)
-----------------------------
"Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow."
"Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?"
"..." |
Elvarien
Caldari
Legion of Corpses
Federation Of united Corps
|
Posted - 2007.07.28 11:23:00 -
[64]
/signed
as a domi user I completely agree as all of the topics discussed here tend to make drone life a big pain n the well .. rectal cavaties
>---
Witty banter. |
Nicoli Malthus
|
Posted - 2007.07.28 12:05:00 -
[65]
signed!!!
|
Leo Balthur
Koshaku
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.28 13:59:00 -
[66]
signed.
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: Red Harvest
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Best Fleet Commander? Hmm. it's a 3-way tie between Admiral Thrawn, Mon Mothma, and Admiral Akbar.
Not even close! Admiral Thrawn i |
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp
Pride - Honor - Duty
|
Posted - 2007.07.28 14:17:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I need to visit Ships and Modules more often
Would be good to split this channel up. One for ship setups and one for actually discussing ships and modules not working, being bugged or general flying advice.
Great Idea.
Ships and Setups - For discussion of tactics, set-ups, advice etc
Balance Discussion - For umm... balance discussion
And knock the "known" off Known Issues and Workarounds while we're at it, if it's broken, or we think it's not working as intended, then it should be in here. That would give us three areas for the devs to focus on if you include features and ideas discussion. Not that the other areas should be ignored of course, but I imagine they'd be far less vital than these three (especially with the mods doing the ol' thread shuffle), it would save time and hopefully give the devs the chance to read more of the important posts more often.
..but yeah, great idea.
|
Spenz
Gallente
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 23:13:00 -
[68]
/Signed with a big red pen
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Acacia Everto
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 23:30:00 -
[69]
/signed
Also, something easy that could be added that'd make drone user's life so much easier, is being able to right click on a locked target and hit 'Engage Target' rather than going back to the drone UI every time we need to switch targets. Maybe even a submenu for drone groups/single drones so can can lock 5 different targets, and right click on one after another and engage a single drone on each.
|
LUH 3471
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 23:38:00 -
[70]
Edited by: LUH 3471 on 29/07/2007 23:38:15
/signed
ccp get on it pls its overdue
whats it been
3 years?
|
Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
Gallente Federal Bank
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 23:39:00 -
[71]
signed.
I experience all the previously aforementioned issues on a DAILY basis.
stuck drones, drones stopping outside scoop range, drones forgetting commands, drones ignoring commands, drones being shot by spawning npcs (not a bug? but really annoying), drones flat out ignoring orders. etc etc etc.
|
Audri Fisher
Caldari
VentureCorp
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 00:16:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Neramore
Agree with the OP items.
Personally, I wish Logistics drones worked on the controlling ship. The fact that isn't possible really breaks the believability of EVE, in my opinion. I mean, my own drones can't repair my own ship?
Sniping ships being able to rep themselves is bad m'kay?
|
n0thing
omen.
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 07:28:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I need to visit Ships and Modules more often
Would be good to split this channel up. One for ship setups and one for actually discussing ships and modules not working, being bugged or general flying advice.
Great Idea.
Ships and Setups - For discussion of tactics, set-ups, advice etc
Balance Discussion - For umm... balance discussion
Even tho the idea if great, I have a little tiny voice inside me yelling that Balance Discussion will be 'better' then CAOD. Since there, mostly conflicting alliances, and here we get all the people who love to:
'Why cant I build titan on my own?', 'Why single pilot can fly a super-cap?', 'We need new cloaking/damaging/ew/drone/nosf/whatnot ship, nerf others, boost us!'
---
|
Firecrak
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 14:38:00 -
[74]
/re-signed and bumped to front page, this deserves more than a "I need to read this forum more" post by the Devs please.
|
RedeyeAce
|
Posted - 2007.07.31 08:39:00 -
[75]
Hmm, thanks to the khanid and nos changes, this has got bounced down the pages...
Well Greyscale came in.. he saw.. and then nothing :(
Please devs.. I know your all busy atm, but give us an update please :)
|
IceForce
|
Posted - 2007.07.31 09:35:00 -
[76]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I need to visit Ships and Modules more often
ccp corupt staff noob
We were told (sorry Greyscale, this is a 'so and so said' one, though it was a Dev Blog) that a specific person was/would be hired specifically to deal with drone issues. What has happened to him/her? Can we get an update please?
|
Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.07.31 10:51:00 -
[77]
Originally by: IceForce
We were told (sorry Greyscale, this is a 'so and so said' one, though it was a Dev Blog) that a specific person was/would be hired specifically to deal with drone issues. What has happened to him/her? Can we get an update please?
/speculation
Hum, last time I heard, a drone was supposed to carry him from the airport to CCP... and we all know how drone AI works... he's probably in Alaska now.
Jokes apart, I'd like to know too.
-- Siggie ! Come back here ! --
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: MotherMoon
well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job
Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.07.31 11:01:00 -
[78]
Why did everyone get their hopes up?
Dev only said he needs to visit this FORUM more often, not like READ MORE ABOUT DRONE BUGS. 
CCP giving "oomph" to Amarr's: Nerffing most of ships via Khanid Mk2. Enjoy your "oomphffs" people! :rolleyes:
|
Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr
Ordo Ministorum
|
Posted - 2007.07.31 12:50:00 -
[79]
To the OP, great ideas there for fixing drones, and the majority of the rest of the ideas have been constructive and sensible. To be honest Drone AI is laughable atm, as has been mentioned above, other MMO's have great 'pet' UI's/AI's etc.
One Empire, One Emperor, One People, Forever under Heaven. Amarr Aeternus.
|
Emeline Cabernet
Amarr
KVA Noble Inc.
Institute of Cooperative Education
|
Posted - 2007.07.31 13:43:00 -
[80]
fix the return mwd bugg to drones and figthers
fix the stuck bugg
fix the refuse to warp with you figther bugg
fix the range bugg
ccp has time and time again said they have fixed these buggs.
every time i read the patch notes and its stated that
it is fixed i feel ****ed upon.
stop lying ffs ccp and bloody fix it.
|
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
VENOM Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.31 13:54:00 -
[81]
Originally by: N1fty
DPS Against Shields:
Hammerhead I : 7.25
Infiltrator I : 6.7
Valkyrie I : 3.03
Vespa I : 4.98
No shield tanker use unhardened shield. Care to do the same calculation on the standard 2 invuln + DC PvP tank?
And of course em drones are the drones of choice to kill raters in non EM dealing rat regions. Also compound the fact the EM drones are faster thus get to target way faster than slowass thermal drones and are also harder to kill because of that. Also that they are IMHO the best antidrone drones du to their speed and the fact that drones passive shield tank...
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.31 14:23:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Aramendel on 31/07/2007 14:23:22
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
No shield tanker use unhardened shield. Care to do the same calculation on the standard 2 invuln + DC PvP tank?
And what exactly should that change? It will reduce both therm and EM damage by exactly the same percentage.
The relation between EM & Therm drones only changes when a shieldtanker hardens espcialyl vs therm, but not vs EM. Usually the opposite is the case.
The only situation where EM drones are usually better than therm is vs caldari t2 ships due to the high inherit thermal resistances of these. The same in reverse is the case for minmatar t2 shield tankers though.
|
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
VENOM Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.31 21:04:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Aramendel
Edited by: Aramendel on 31/07/2007 14:23:22
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
No shield tanker use unhardened shield. Care to do the same calculation on the standard 2 invuln + DC PvP tank?
And what exactly should that change? It will reduce both therm and EM damage by exactly the same percentage.
Yeah sorry brain fart, I guess it make them good mostly for killing raters, and anti drones from their speed advantage on thermal drones..
|
Chris Stormrider
|
Posted - 2007.07.31 22:41:00 -
[84]
/signed
I've bug-reported the important bugs, all got filtered except the show-info that got attached to a defect...
ps. thanx for the reply greyscale, nice to know this ain't just another drone thread ;)
|
RedeyeAce
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 09:40:00 -
[85]
/bump
|
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.10 15:46:00 -
[86]
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 10/08/2007 15:46:18
Small bump now I'm re-activated
I think Greyscale might have died.
-----------------------------
"Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow."
"Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?"
"..." |
Borasao
|
Posted - 2007.08.10 15:50:00 -
[87]
Just chiming in...
With heavy drones, I can reproduce this 100% of the times I've tried to reproduce it:
- Have target locked but not firing anything at it (like blowing up a structure in a mission)
- Launch 5x Heavies
- Order them to engage my target
- They all get the red engaging message and head out to the target
- At some point they forget what they're doing, I think it's when they reach the target (all have the green message about being idle or returning to my ship or whatever)
- Order them to engage my target again
- Now they seem to work.
|
Lars Intarestum
|
Posted - 2007.08.10 16:22:00 -
[88]
/signed
|
Sathamarid
|
Posted - 2007.08.10 21:04:00 -
[89]
TL, DR (except the OP) but I have seen drones attack structures in encounters instead of attacking "live" targets. So I'm getting pewed by frigs and the drones are seriously ATTACKING A WALL. Wrong.
Signed.
|
Chris Stormrider
|
Posted - 2007.08.10 22:30:00 -
[90]
if drones flash idle messages then go back to fighting status, they have picked a random target (maybe the original, but unlikly)
suggestion:
1) if a target dies wait for the "idle" to appear then give the next "engage" order
2) keep an eye for momentary "idle" appearances, reissue orders when that happens
3) good luck ;p
|
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2007.08.10 22:33:00 -
[91]
I have experienced all the issues mentioned in the OP.
One solution (well an empirical one) for the refusal of the drones to get in the drone bay when called in, is to give an order to attack something. When they go to the fighting mode, issue the order to return to drone bay. Works 99% of the time.
But is just a half measure, and not a solution. So a solution for all these points would be most welcomed.
Also i would like to see some t2 modules for the drones. Like omnidirectional tracking link t2.
-------
Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr
The Firestorm Elite
|
Posted - 2007.08.10 23:03:00 -
[92]
/ so signed its not funny! drones have been broken atleast as long as amarr!! fix drones next!
Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
Orontes Ovasi
22nd ACU
|
Posted - 2007.08.10 23:38:00 -
[93]
/signed
|
Corphus
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.08.11 01:14:00 -
[94]
i dont know if this was mentioned yet but:
after launching drones while traveling at ab or mwd boosted speed the drones will follow the controlship but once u issue the command "return and orbit" or "return to dronebay" the drones will slow down and u will not be able to scoop em since they wont reach ur ship.
they deaccelerate and stop before they reach ur scooping distance. even if u stop mwd, ab the drones will deaccelerate at a faster rate and still land outside ur scoop distance.
the only way of collecting em is a 180 turn and getting in range by urself.
THIS is NOT accetable for pvp 
in some situtation where seconds decide about ur survival i had often to leave my Expensive TII drones behind, loosing 5-10 mil with every drone wing lost !
it is totally unaccetable that the main weapon system of a droneship is vulnerable to so many errors, be it code errors or other game performance specific reasons.
|
Jones 1st
Gallente
Deadly Industrial Kommunists
|
Posted - 2007.08.11 03:47:00 -
[95]
/signed
the jones |
Necronomicon
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.13 08:00:00 -
[96]
/signed, cummon CCP drones are half implemented at best, you can do so much better.
Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
|
Gabriel Magnar
|
Posted - 2007.08.13 15:07:00 -
[97]
/signed, for the millionth time
Get a clue CCP.
|
Staggerr
|
Posted - 2007.08.13 15:32:00 -
[98]
Signed also.
|
RedeyeAce
|
Posted - 2007.08.13 17:32:00 -
[99]
mmmmm.
Well the latest blog says theyre looking at sorting, heat, invention and Drones in rev 3....
Come on devs, make us stop Drone(ing) on about the probs and give us a hint as to what ur fixing please.
|
Saaitar
|
Posted - 2007.08.13 19:44:00 -
[100]
This is what I saw today about this topic
Concise Drone Summary, for Dev Analysis
Pages: 1 2 3 4 J'Mkarr Soban 100 6666 2007.08.13 17:32:00
by: RedeyeAce
Meaning that 10 x 10 of people actually replied and 10 x 666 people saw this topic...that must mean something! I am follower of conspiracy theory :P
|
Tawrich Tistrya
|
Posted - 2007.08.13 23:17:00 -
[101]
/signed
I'm domi flyer.
This ******** UI alone is stoping me from using more then 1 type of drones then add in all the probs = 1 unhappy pilot :(
I love the game but at best drones are nothing more then a fancy addition not really ment to be used.
At the rate bugfixes for drones have been going i wouldn't be surprised to see options for shooting fancy pictures in the air with special fireworks ammo before seeing my drones act with more inteligence then an infent. Might aswell render diapers around em and give us a babysitter skill.
I dont have much time to play the game as is , doesn't really add to my enjoyment of the game having to keep reorder my drones to actually do something.
This whole point and pray system should have been fixed ages ago.
DEVS PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give us an update on thsi situation , i would take a fck you all on this matter as a better sign then the blancs we have now , atleast then i'd stop focussing on drones.
|
Ashaz
Mindstar Technology
United Confederation of Corporations
|
Posted - 2007.09.07 07:45:00 -
[102]
One point you missed (well there are others but..)
Drones some times decide to attack rat that are far FAR outside your drone control range, or even targeting range.
I have had this happen numerous times in L4 missions.
Entire groups of rats moved over 200 km to get to my drones. when I finaly got them back in drone bay, they ignored me and went back to sit around in a cloud 200 km away.
Redeploy the drones and... yes look at that. they are all heading this way again. and my drones are idle!
__________________________________
Gallente by birth. Amarr by choice.
iDrone |
V0idz
Herrscher der Zeit
|
Posted - 2007.09.08 20:48:00 -
[103]
hell yeah.. /signed!
_____________________________________
EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs.
If it's too hard, you are too weak. |
Wideen
Resurrection
R i s e
|
Posted - 2007.09.08 21:23:00 -
[104]
/signed
Originally by: P'uck
I know somebody who heard somebody say that an Osprey defeated Chuck Norris. Twice. Need I say more?
|
Banzai OdiN
Caldari
Species 5618
Pure.
|
Posted - 2007.09.08 22:53:00 -
[105]
Another thing id llike to add is that once you have engaged warp your drones will not come back to your ship, instead you have to stop warp let them come to you and then engage warp again, this gets annoying sometimes.
|
Kuzya Morozov
|
Posted - 2007.09.08 23:25:00 -
[106]
/signed
I hate clicking on return to ship 300 times and having them popped anyway.
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