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Locus Bey
Gallente
Qalandar
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Posted - 2007.08.01 20:31:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Drevin Kald
Originally by: Locus Bey
Yes increase violence to fight violence, that seems a logical answer  Luckily they don't let neanderthals like many of you set policy all that often. You'll just have to wait for the next fascist dictator to make use of your desire to throw away any moral duty or critical thought.
You are blasting them for lack of critical thought when all you do is quote left wing fanatical cult like freak organizations with your "anyone can be reformed" and "All police are corrupt" ignorance? 
"Left wing fanatatical cult like freak organizations?" That's a good one I don't believe I said either of those things you 'blast' me for, let alone quote anywhere here. Someone's having a little bit of a tanty, hey? 
It's not my fault there is a general laziness of opinion when it comes to solutions to combat crime. What you didn't know the police force was corrupt? Not all, but enough and right to the top. The prison system is a money making machine run by private institutions in most cases these days. Combine these facts with governments not spending money on genuine reform as it is unpopular, and you have a system that fails individuals and society at large. What do you expect? So what happens then? Our lazy society calls for harsher penalties, which have never had the effect of decreasing crime, completly ignoring obvious solutions in favour of being able to go back to not thinking and complaining again. Really makes sense doesn't it?
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Plaetean
Murder-Death-Kill
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.01 21:19:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Locus Bey
Stuff
1. Instead of just spamming us with abstract nouns that don't really mean anything ('Tough on crime, tough on causes of crime'), what would you suggest?
2. Have you ever met a chav?
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Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.08.01 21:22:00 -
[93]
all those we need harsher punishment folks should seriously grab some crime statistics of different countries and compare these to the punishments used in the respective jurisdictions. then you might get an idea that just upping punishment does not have any deterrant effect on the criminals.
when you commit a crime you don't think you're caught in the first place, that's why ppl actually murder other ppl for 50 bucks, do you think any only half sane person would do this if he knows he'll be executed or imprisoned for lifetime/25/15 yrs? as murder is a pretty common crime and some killers are pretty intelligent this could give you a hint on how much of a deterrent stricter punishments are.
the only truthfull argument in favor of capital or corporal punishment is revenge and your own bloodthirtiness. it's deterrent effect is not higher than that of incarceration and a dead criminal is not less dangerous to society than an incarcerated one.
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WGAnubis Marrith
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.01 21:25:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Fink Angel
There are some things that make me so angry, that we should return to Victorian punisments such as the birch for some crimes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6916745.stm
I just can't believe how low some parts of society have become some times, and I think some people just frankly need some sense beaten into them.
Yeah that is appauling, but at most its jail time, not the death sentience.
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Reiisha
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.08.01 22:22:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Amarria Black
And you wonder why us folks in the US are so protective of our right to bear arms. The sound of a 12 gauge Browning shotgun racking alleviates this sort of problem quick-like.
Look on the bright side: about a decade ago, Charlotte, NC's South Boulevard was so bad, they had to issue the paramedics sidearms. The gang-bangers would shoot at each other, and as soon as someone was hit, they'd stop. They would then wait for the ambulance to arrive, shoot the paramedics (guaranteeing that anyone shot would bleed and die where they lay), and then have it out with each other. You're not quite at that level of messed up yet. Count your blessings.
Typical one-way thinking...
You rack up the shotgun. They rack up their own guns. Shooting ensues, and even more people die.
Never assume you have something others don't... Assumptions and preconceptions are not good, mmkay?
EVE History Wiki
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.08.01 22:29:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Shiken Kan
all those we need harsher punishment folks should seriously grab some crime statistics of different countries and compare these to the punishments used in the respective jurisdictions. then you might get an idea that just upping punishment does not have any deterrant effect on the criminals.
when you commit a crime you don't think you're caught in the first place, that's why ppl actually murder other ppl for 50 bucks, do you think any only half sane person would do this if he knows he'll be executed or imprisoned for lifetime/25/15 yrs? as murder is a pretty common crime and some killers are pretty intelligent this could give you a hint on how much of a deterrent stricter punishments are.
the only truthfull argument in favor of capital or corporal punishment is revenge and your own bloodthirtiness. it's deterrent effect is not higher than that of incarceration and a dead criminal is not less dangerous to society than an incarcerated one.
Thats why its called a PUNISHMENT and not a DETERRANT. The entire purpose of jail, regardless of the corrections system wants to admit it, is to ruin the life of people who ruin the lives of others. Personally speaking, anyone convicted of a criminal offense more than twice in seperate instances should be put to death.
If you can't live by societies rules, you don't belong in society nor should you be a burden on the state.
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Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.08.02 00:45:00 -
[97]
sorry for thinking that crime fighting was about fighting crime and not just about getting an excuse for going on a murderous rampage 
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Royaldo
Gallente
KVA Noble Inc.
Institute of Cooperative Education
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Posted - 2007.08.02 00:48:00 -
[98]
i mean this:
bad parents should be punished same way murderes are.
snotty ugly stupid children is the last thing we need.
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Locus Bey
Gallente
Qalandar
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Posted - 2007.08.02 09:16:00 -
[99]
"There have been about half a million murders in the USA since 1977. In the same period, 716 men and women have been executed. This is a punishment, these bare statistics suggest, reserved for the ôworst of the worstö of murderers in the USA. But how can that be true if, for example, learning disabled prisoners are among the condemned? ... It is time they [U.S. leaders] took it upon themselves to measure US standards of decency against the aspirations of the international community on the death penalty." Amnesty International report, 2001.
With the worlds largest prison population, over 2 million, accounting for approximately a quarter of the world's prison population you might want to consider the ramifications US policies have had on its prison system and society.
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.nsf/webamrcountries/UNITED+STATES+OF+AMERICA?OpenDocument
The object of punishment is to reform the offender; to deter him and others from committing like offences; and to protect society, not as you suggest to "ruin the life." According to punishments legal definition, "It should never exceed what is requisite to reform the criminal and to protect society; for whatever goes beyond this, is cruelty and revenge, the relic of a barbarous age. The Constitution of the United States, Amendment 8, forbids the infliction of "cruel and unusual punishments." Anyone see the irony in that? I guess that explains why they can justify the process of rendition, illegal detention, and failure to sign a number of human rights laws. Does that mean we can put your senior government ministers on trial for commiting war crimes, and as it is a repeated offence, they can be put to death? Or are you talking double standards here?
How do you people expect inmates not to reoffend, when the prison system provides little means for that individual to return to society equipped? Do you believe the culture of violence that permeates the prison system will not result in more violent ex inmates? While incarceration is a mechanism for penalising the individual, without means of reform what hope has that individual of understanding their crime, let alone undergoing the correct psychological preparation for changing their mentality, or gaining the skills for fruitful participation in society?
If a society doesn't spend on education, social reform, social services, you tell me what hope it has for grabbing those who fall through the *****s? To suggest that the answer is just to kill people is barbaric and lazy in the extreme.
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nubinator
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Posted - 2007.08.02 12:23:00 -
[100]
What this country needs is a good military dictatorship who can clean up ("final solution") all these chavs, illegal immigrants, asylum seekers and undesirables (left wingers), without the bleeding hearts and the european union getting in the way of sorting this country out.
/fascist right wing hysteria
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Xen Gin
The Dragoons
X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.08.02 12:42:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Plaetean
2. Have you ever met a chav?
For anyone looking for large groups of Chavs to observer, he's a few locations I know of.
Newport, Gwent - Newport Bus Station 6pm+
Warrington, Cheshire - Town Centre 6pm+
Also you can find a bountiful amount of Neds (Chavs but they live in Scotland) in Glasgow.
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Gilthanas
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.08.02 12:55:00 -
[102]
Usually i don't get involved in these debates as they get me pretty hot under the collar!
So on that note i will make this short and sweet.
England needs capital and coporal punishment brought back.
We need to clean up our streets so people can walk them after 6 o clock without any fear. I have yet to be in a town that doesn't have a group of neanderthals standing outside the newsagents or local off liscence
I am sick of tired going to buy a local paper only to be accosted by a snotty nosed 10 year, old decked out in a kappa jumpsuit of adidas joggers (complete with hoody or cap), asking "got a**** mate" "buy us some****s mate" "got a spare 50p mate" and all the other crap that goes with it.
Best bit is if you say NO (sod off you little urchin would be better) you get all sorts of abuse hurled at you or worse.
So i say YES, im all for it coming back.
Rant over!!
My Sig |
Bob Stuart
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2007.08.02 19:05:00 -
[103]
Local paper here had a story this week about a murder.
One 15-year-old stabbed another 15-year-old with a 10-inch kitchen knife.
Reason was "He wouldn't give me back my bottle of Buckfast". Buckfast being the brand name of a particular drink. Monetary value of the drink is quite low.
Apparently, the murderer "didn't mean to kill him.", just to "teach him a lesson."
The prisons are full of people like that.
That's the problem, there's a whole culture of people who don't see the connection between stabbing someone and killing them.
The handgun abuse in other parts of the country is the same. People who don't make the connection between shooting someone and killing them.
Another incident fairly recently was when a man (who was in my year at school) set a house on fire, and blocked the only exit (upper floor flat), which trapped and killed 5 people - 2 adults (19-20), 1 teenager (13) and two children (2 and 5). As I recall, the reason for this was that the teenager had called someone's girlfriend a "cow" at a party. Again, the murderer "didn't mean for that to happen".
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Archilies
The Wild Hunt
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.02 19:37:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Thats why its called a PUNISHMENT and not a DETERRANT. The entire purpose of jail, regardless of the corrections system wants to admit it, is to ruin the life of people who ruin the lives of others. Personally speaking, anyone convicted of a criminal offense more than twice in seperate instances should be put to death.
If you can't live by societies rules, you don't belong in society nor should you be a burden on the state.
You, my good sir, are a little freak. Your assuming that very person who's in jail is guilty and theres never any miscarriages of justice.
read me
This of a case of someone who was wrongly executed because of a rape/other crimes. Just like you say, we should bring back capital punishment, this is the major reason why it shouldnt. Because you can never be 100% sure that the person who comitted the crime, actually done it.
There Was A Time When The World Asked Ordinary Men To Do Extraordinary Things |
Wuchubie
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Posted - 2007.08.02 21:31:00 -
[105]
"The most effective method of defeating an enemy is to remove their will or ability to retaliate/fight". Sun Tzu (I think)
When the above sentence is put into the context of fighting crime (which could be consisered a war I suppose) there a number of methods and traits that can be exploited in order to reduce the ability and/or desire for criminals to conduct crimes. Some of these, such as the threat of prison, fines, community service (punishments that naturally undesireable for the criminal but considered acceptible by todays society), are obviously not having the desired affect disuading people from committing crimes.
In my opinion, tougher repercusions need to be introduced and, in order for these to be affective, they need to 'appeal' to basic human instincts of self preservation and freedom. I therefore believe that capital punishment should be reintroduced in order to remove the threat of murderers, rapists and the ilk, from society.
Tougher sentences for less heinous crimes should also be introduced; the removal of some or all basic human rights - sanitation, regular/sufficient food, social interaction for example - might be suitable for people convicted of assault and the like. Obviously, the less serious the crime the less severe the punishment.
Now, you all might think that I am being tyranical, debasing human rights or being unnecessarily harsh, but I believe that criminals should recieve a punishment worthy of the severity of their crime. Hence the removal of human rights and capital punishment for violating the human rights of life, choice and freedom.
Quote:
Human rights refers to "the basic rights and freedoms to which all humans are entitled, often held to include the right to life and liberty, freedom of thought and expression, and equality before the law."
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."
The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.08.02 23:34:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Archilies
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Thats why its called a PUNISHMENT and not a DETERRANT. The entire purpose of jail, regardless of the corrections system wants to admit it, is to ruin the life of people who ruin the lives of others. Personally speaking, anyone convicted of a criminal offense more than twice in seperate instances should be put to death.
If you can't live by societies rules, you don't belong in society nor should you be a burden on the state.
You, my good sir, are a little freak. Your assuming that very person who's in jail is guilty and theres never any miscarriages of justice.
read me
This of a case of someone who was wrongly executed because of a rape/other crimes. Just like you say, we should bring back capital punishment, this is the major reason why it shouldnt. Because you can never be 100% sure that the person who comitted the crime, actually done it.
Moral of the story: Don't act like a freaky, psycho rapist guy and you won't die. I see nothing wrong with anything here. Same goes for walking into a 7-11 with a plastic glock and holding the place up, I don't give two ****s that its a harmless piece of plastic, swing by your neck you deviant s.o.b.
You know why the death penalty is not seen by criminals as a deterrant? Because they spend 10 - 15 years in a cell waiting for their execution date, in prisons that have better accommodations than most free persons can afford. If the US jails looked like the ones in Thailand or Saudi Arabia, people would **** bricks about doing their time.
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Captain Hudson
Caldari
Intergalactic Space Defense Force
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.08.03 01:21:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Captain Hudson on 03/08/2007 01:24:13
THIS IS HOW YOU REFORM PRISONERS CAREBEAR STYLE!!
Originally by: SPQRMocton
We would love to have a bunch of teenage pimple boys with no real pvp ability to fil our corpse yards
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Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.03 02:05:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Ander on 03/08/2007 02:05:42
We have this kind of problem in some suburbs in sweden where immigrants are in the majority.
Gangs of 14 to 17 year olds like to do these kind of things to firemen, paramedics and even the police.
They throw rocks and gang up and just mess with the public service.
One city in particular with this problem is Malmoe (Malm÷).
Kinda makes me angry the way (a minority) they act when we welcome them into Sweden since they are worse off in their old countries :(
EVE PIRATE
ANDER! now posting in "orange" |
Gilthanas
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.08.03 08:04:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Captain Hudson
Edited by: Captain Hudson on 03/08/2007 01:24:13
THIS IS HOW YOU REFORM PRISONERS CAREBEAR STYLE!!
This young sir is GENIOUS!!
I nearly **** myself with laughter watching this.
I think we should show criminals the picture of the transvestite in this clip and warn them that this is what they will be turned into if they commit a crime.
I see a the crime rate going into minus figures
My Sig |
Dai Lithium
Ordo Drakonis
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Posted - 2007.08.03 08:22:00 -
[110]
I'm not sure how truly effective corporal punishment would be, but don't certain states in the US send young offenders into the military for a set period of time as an alternative to jail?
Not only would it instill some discipline, but it could open up a whole career path to disaffected youths who had never previously considered it.
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Kalahari Wayrest
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Posted - 2007.08.03 09:49:00 -
[111]
Quote:
Thats why its called a PUNISHMENT and not a DETERRANT.
I thought it was supposed to be called Justice 
__________________________
Indulge Me
Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥
Wow immy scored - Xorus |
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