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buescrew crop back in IAC

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GomezChou Gallente Nexus Analytics Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 03:42:00 - [61] The funny part about all of this is that, while beusrew rat nearly as much as Jim Lovell (go baby go!), they also participate on an alliance level. We had a pos shooty op a bit back, and I'll be damned if 15 torp ravens didn't show up, flying the beusrew flag. They warped in as a group, were supporting each others tanks, and were more or less right on time. OUr conventional fleet didn't arrive for another 10-20 minutes. So yeah, they can stay.
Akelorian Caldari Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.07.30 03:52:00 - [62] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Racist vigilante wannabe GMs cry me a river please. lol Tyrrax, the greatest supporter of ISK farmers. Bet that 1bil a week is great to have in your wallet eh? - Ake Out
Akelorian Caldari Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.07.30 03:59:00 - [63] Originally by: Sokratesz these are not macroers and id rather not give any more incentive to be kicked out of iac, been there done that, got the t shirt, sent apologies Wish I had that convo logged when I was in UMCON, Tyrrax knows they are farmers and he does charge them isk, now tell me who in your alliance actually see's this isk other than him?
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 04:11:00 - [64] If CCP has already conducted investigation of buescrew (as 1 posted suggested), then could they release results of that investigation? If there is evidence that buescrew are not macro-rattings, not sweatshop isk farmers, and not involved in isk sales, then I'll change my attitude toward them. I'm open minded. It's just that right now, all the circumstantial evidence points against them. It's very hard to prove isk sales, but it's easy to examine their online farming time. If 1 char is farming for 18+ hours strait, you know that it's either a macro or shared account. Both cases are EULA violations. Can CCP say how many hours they farm?
GomezChou Gallente Nexus Analytics Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 05:23:00 - [65] Originally by: Ephemeron If CCP has already conducted investigation of buescrew (as 1 posted suggested), then could they release results of that investigation? If there is evidence that buescrew are not macro-rattings, not sweatshop isk farmers, and not involved in isk sales, then I'll change my attitude toward them. I'm open minded. It's just that right now, all the circumstantial evidence points against them. It's very hard to prove isk sales, but it's easy to examine their online farming time. If 1 char is farming for 18+ hours strait, you know that it's either a macro or shared account. Both cases are EULA violations. Can CCP say how many hours they farm? Methamphetamine addiction is not a EULA violation, to my knowledge. :P
papaPadla Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.30 05:58:00 - [66] Originally by: Ephemeron ...If 1 char is farming for 18+ hours strait, you know that it's either a macro or shared account. Both cases are EULA violations. if we try splitting the issue... they can have an account on for like 23/7... without macroing and without sharing... and in general is hard to get proof about these issues... this discution however is not about this... is about the fact that iac is giving a blue tag to a corp that disturbs some of theyr allies... and if we consider the coalition as a whole... being in iac gives one a blue tag for a good portion of the server... and in fact that is what iac is selling... not "other ppl regions" not protection or anything... they are simply selling the tag... meaning limited protection in iac+allies space, safe passage around there... docking rights in areas where they wouldnt normally haveit. Not that i find anything wrong with that... but let's call it what it is -------------------------------------
Mr Krosis The humble Crew Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:35:00 - [67] I still don't fully understand why people have a problem with IAC regarding this. In IAC / Not In IAC, they're still in game, and they're still ratting. As far as I know, they're not allowed to rat in our space. I've been told if they come and try to rat where I am that I'm free to shoot them down. Our allies know we don't have a problem if they shoot them. Hell look at -A- killboard stats for buesrew, they kill them in Catch and abroad all the time. I have never seen a single indication that any of them use macros. They do respond to you if you see them in local and they certainly don't like being shot at. The horribly mutilated english is a little amusing. I saw one in local one time and asked him if he ever got bored ratting all day, he said "yes". There are real people on the other side of that keyboard. Do they sell ISK for real life money? I've no idea. If they do, it's not because they're in IAC. Would I rather they were not in IAC? Probably, but I don't care too much one way or another. It was amusing at first, now it's kind of old. As long as they don't rat in my space or disrupt my gameplay, it's kind of hard to care too much. I know for some people, it really gets under your skin, but if you all have proof that they are doing something against the EULA, submit it to CCP. If you have chatlogs of them admiting that they sell the ISK out of game, don't tell us, submit it to CCP. If you have no proof and you just plain don't like them, then go hunt them. There is nothing IAC can do to remove them from the game, CCP is the only one that can help you there. -- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
UGWidowmaker Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:43:00 - [68] who cares. OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Linavin Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:11:00 - [69] If you've got a problem with them, just blast em. We wont take it as an insult, or diplomatic problem, we'll probably just laugh about it. I see no reason why CCP would for some reason start turning a blind eye to potential EULA breaching activity simply because it happens in a "big alliance." If anything it makes such activities easier to see. CCP has had a fine track record of doling out Bans for those who breach the EULA, without any credance to alliance affiliation. I trust CCP is still dealing with ISK buying and selling in a swift and decise manner as they always have. ---
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:39:00 - [70] Edited by: Tamoko on 30/07/2007 08:40:22 Originally by: Ephemeron If CCP has already conducted investigation of buescrew (as 1 posted suggested), then could they release results of that investigation? If there is evidence that buescrew are not macro-rattings, not sweatshop isk farmers, and not involved in isk sales, then I'll change my attitude toward them. I'm open minded. It's just that right now, all the circumstantial evidence points against them. It's very hard to prove isk sales, but it's easy to examine their online farming time. If 1 char is farming for 18+ hours strait, you know that it's either a macro or shared account. Both cases are EULA violations. Can CCP say how many hours they farm? First and most importantly, I'm not racist. But I can put two and two together. Yes, they rat almost twenty-four hours a day. Almost every one I've run into has given me a colloquial "good day" in Chinese when I told them 你好o/, in local, or in lieu of that, asked me to not kill them . I'll be damned if they aren't selling isk. -edit- The poster above me is the epic win. If they bother you so much, then kill them. IAC wont mind - probably even if you're blue to them. You stand to lose nothing to our oriental farmer friends, or IAC at large. Khanid Mk-II: http://i13.tinypic.com/688zvjk.jpg http://i11.tinypic.com/5ycekb8.jpg
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:23:00 - [71] Contrary to the belief of many people in this thread, Farming is not a eula violation, and as said before, if they had been found guilty of ISK selling why the hell haven't they been banned? Bandwagon's full, please catch another.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:39:00 - [72] I take offense at IAC because they are blue to my alliance. I won't hide the fact that I hate isk farmers. I don't like people who collaborate with isk farmers in any way. IAC says it's ok to shoot them even tho they are blue. I see such policy as abuse of EVE political system. Either you are all hostile, or you are all friends. I don't want any of that "we all look like friends but lets pretend those friends are not friends at all, you can kill them, lets laugh at them. And by the way we know they are actually scum bags but we'll pretend to be their friend anyways." What kind of bull**** is that? Bottom line is, I consider behavior of IAC leadership unacceptable and I don't want to have such allies. I can tolerate it by my alliance leadership orders, but I won't hide that I don't like this one bit.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:41:00 - [73] Originally by: Sokratesz Contrary to the belief of many people in this thread, Farming is not a eula violation, and as said before, if they had been found guilty of ISK selling why the hell haven't they been banned? Bandwagon's full, please catch another. If IAC actually defended buescrew corp all the way, then I could respect you. But your leaders openly admit they buescrew are bad isk farmers, openly laugh when their allies kill their own members, openly admit to scamming their corp for isk by renting them far away regions. I can't respect you
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:57:00 - [74] IAC is completely riddled with macro/sweatshop ISK farming corps. You would struggle to find a system in Catch where they have not strategically placed a 24-7 cloaking/logging Raven. Who knows why they let them in. Poor management? They don't care? Greed? Maybe all of these things. Whatever - its poor form and IAC would do well to eject such corps from their alliance. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Mr Broker Station Gremlings	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:11:00 - [75] Originally by: Ephemeron IAC says it's ok to shoot them even tho they are blue. I see such policy as abuse of EVE political system. Either you are all hostile, or you are all friends. I don't want any of that "we all look like friends but lets pretend those friends are not friends at all, you can kill them, lets laugh at them. And by the way we know they are actually scum bags but we'll pretend to be their friend anyways." What kind of bull** is that? Bottom line is, I consider behavior of IAC leadership unacceptable and I don't want to have such allies. I can tolerate it by my alliance leadership orders, but I won't hide** that I don't like this one bit. I can't respect you You sure seems to think your opinion matters to IAC or anyone else Just who are you? Stop embarassing Razor. Also, you're only allies of opportunity, when the war's over, you won't be allies. Seems you don't even know that, also considering you are living and fighting on the opposite sides of the galaxy, it shouldn't be a problem, except you decided to make it a problem. Well, we don't care about your feelings and IAC doesn't need your respect
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:12:00 - [76] What's wrong Butter, jealous that IAC got the bright idea of running a protection racket on them first?
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:14:00 - [77] Originally by: Butter Dog IAC is completely riddled with macro/sweatshop ISK farming corps. You would struggle to find a system in Catch where they have not strategically placed a 24-7 cloaking/logging Raven. Who knows why they let them in. Poor management? They don't care? Greed? Maybe all of these things. Whatever - its poor form and IAC would do well to eject such corps from their alliance. they see me trollin', they hatin' GTFO
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:49:00 - [78] Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke What's wrong Butter, jealous that IAC got the bright idea of running a protection racket on them first? To be honest, it makes me a little sad. There are some good corps and personalities in IAC. They are a fun alliance, and I quite like most of them. But legitimising the actions of ISK farmers is just a step too far, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. EVE has enough faults without ISK farmers providing further imbalance to the game, and being given a 'safe haven' in which to do so. There is also the moral and ethical question of those who are 'paid' to do this and their well-documented conditions of employment. They don't call them 'sweatshops' for nothing. Laughing about it or making stupid comments about 'protection rackets' makes those involved look niave at best, and collaborators in human rights abuses at worst. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:17:00 - [79] Edited by: Sokratesz on 30/07/2007 11:17:53 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke What's wrong Butter, jealous that IAC got the bright idea of running a protection racket on them first? To be honest, it makes me a little sad. There are some good corps and personalities in IAC. They are a fun alliance, and I quite like most of them. But legitimising the actions of ISK farmers is just a step too far, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. EVE has enough faults without ISK farmers providing further imbalance to the game, and being given a 'safe haven' in which to do so. There is also the moral and ethical question of those who are 'paid' to do this and their well-documented conditions of employment. They don't call them 'sweatshops' for nothing. Laughing about it or making stupid comments about 'protection rackets' makes those involved look niave at best, and collaborators in human rights abuses at worst. Take of your yellow mask and stop trying to act cool. There's some flaws in your irrevocable logic. 1) there's no need to legitimize isk farmers, for they are legitimate 2) how do we do that anyway, when even tyraxx acknowledges that they are farming 3) i dont care about your mouth 4) safe haven in hostile territory? 5) i dont know any sweatshop workers, do you?, and if i did, and could do anything about their situation, i would, but unfortunatly i dont, so i cant 6) moral / ethical implications? this is the intarwebs!
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:27:00 - [80] Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 30/07/2007 11:17:53 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke What's wrong Butter, jealous that IAC got the bright idea of running a protection racket on them first? To be honest, it makes me a little sad. There are some good corps and personalities in IAC. They are a fun alliance, and I quite like most of them. But legitimising the actions of ISK farmers is just a step too far, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. EVE has enough faults without ISK farmers providing further imbalance to the game, and being given a 'safe haven' in which to do so. There is also the moral and ethical question of those who are 'paid' to do this and their well-documented conditions of employment. They don't call them 'sweatshops' for nothing. Laughing about it or making stupid comments about 'protection rackets' makes those involved look niave at best, and collaborators in human rights abuses at worst. Take of your yellow mask and stop trying to act cool. There's some flaws in your irrevocable logic. 1) there's no need to legitimize isk farmers, for they are legitimate 2) how do we do that anyway, when even tyraxx acknowledges that they are farming 3) i dont care about your mouth 4) safe haven in hostile territory? 5) i dont know any sweatshop workers, do you?, and if i did, and could do anything about their situation, i would, but unfortunatly i dont, so i cant 6) moral / ethical implications? this is the intarwebs! Most of your points are lacking in intelligence and substance, and not worthy of a response. But let me address a few which are obviously flawed; 4) I was under the impression you claimed Catch, which is where most of them seem to operate. You also have a large number of 'blues' from which farmers are effectively shielded. 5) Under what terms and conditions of employment do you think ISK farmers are engaged in the developing world? Their rates of pay, terms of employment, and working hours are completely out of line with what any reasonable person would call 'acceptable'. This is well documented, do a little research. 6) Clearly the moral and ethical implications come from the way in which ISK farmers are employed. Thats very much a 'real life' consideration, though no doubt it serves you well to trivialise the issue. Unfortunately for you, wishing these issues away does not work. Now, you can either respond intelligently to my points, or I'd recommend you don't bother - you've already made yourself look rather foolish so be mindful of how low you go. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:41:00 - [81] Originally by: Butter Dog Now, you can either respond intelligently to my points, or I'd recommend you don't bother - you've already made yourself look rather foolish so be mindful of how low you go. Fortunatly, 'looking intelligent' has never been my goal on virtual message boards. Good that you mention it, i've been practicing my Limbo Dancing skills lately but im afraid it will take at least two more trolls like you to push me any lower. /sarcasm i'll get back to washing my socks now
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:46:00 - [82] Originally by: CardboardSword42 IAC get paid to rent regions they don't own and ensure that farmers don't NPCin their region. Sounds like win win for IAC and it also lowers the ammount of isk being sold for money because they would've NPC'd in 0.0 anyways and this way they're losing a couple billion isk a week. The idea that CCP won't deal with isk farmers becuase they're in IAC is both ridiculously stupid and unfounded. If an account is found to have sold isk for real money, that account will be banned no matter what alliance or corporation that person is in. Having this corp in IAC has no bearing what so ever on their legitimacy in the eyes of a GM. In addition Tyrax pretty much agrees they're illegitimate but would rather make isk and not have them in his space than have to deal with them. Your arguments about why CCP are less likely do deal with farmers are totally warrantless. Taking isk from isk farmers is tantamount to farming isk yourself. IAC should remove this relationship at once. Caveat: Of course, if they are farmers that is, but the general concensus on here seems to be that they are.
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:55:00 - [83] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Butter Dog Now, you can either respond intelligently to my points, or I'd recommend you don't bother - you've already made yourself look rather foolish so be mindful of how low you go. Fortunatly, 'looking intelligent' has never been my goal on virtual message boards. Good that you mention it, i've been practicing my Limbo Dancing skills lately but im afraid it will take at least two more trolls like you to push me any lower. /sarcasm i'll get back to washing my socks now I'll help butter out here. Sokratesz, mate, pal, shut up. Your argument is pathetic and I am embarrassed for you. IAC would do well to boot you out before the farmers.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:03:00 - [84] Edited by: cal nereus on 30/07/2007 12:04:09 Edited by: cal nereus on 30/07/2007 12:03:44 Taxing tobacco sales is tantamount to selling drugs to children! You should be ashamed, [insert just about any country here]. --- Grismar.net
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:06:00 - [85] Originally by: Mattduk I'll help butter out here. Sokratesz, mate, pal, shut up. Your argument is pathetic and I am embarrassed for you. IAC would do well to boot you out before the farmers. I had a bus full of people that cared about your opinion on this matter, but i drove it off a cliff.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:09:00 - [86] Edited by: Sokratesz on 30/07/2007 12:14:59 Besides, mattduk, i have over 50 confirmed suicide kills of farmer/macro mackinaws and haulers. Might keep that in mind. I've also spoken to many farmers and even alleged ISK sellers in-game and even on MSN, so i think my vision on the whole matter is a little less biased than yours.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:57:00 - [87] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Butter Dog Now, you can either respond intelligently to my points, or I'd recommend you don't bother - you've already made yourself look rather foolish so be mindful of how low you go. Fortunatly, 'looking intelligent' has never been my goal on virtual message boards. Good that you mention it, i've been practicing my Limbo Dancing skills lately but im afraid it will take at least two more trolls like you to push me any lower. /sarcasm i'll get back to washing my socks now You're an embarressment to your alliance. And thats really saying something. But yes, well done for side-stepping all of my perfectly valid points. Makes you look really credible. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:59:00 - [88] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Mattduk I'll help butter out here. Sokratesz, mate, pal, shut up. Your argument is pathetic and I am embarrassed for you. IAC would do well to boot you out before the farmers. I had a bus full of people that cared about your opinion on this matter, but i drove it off a cliff. You accuse others of trolling, then make comments like this. Remarkable. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:59:00 - [89] Edited by: Sokratesz on 30/07/2007 13:03:36 Edited by: Sokratesz on 30/07/2007 13:02:29 Most of your 'valid points' were disproven in this or one of the many iac-farmer related threadslong ago, so please, dont go there. Originally by: Butter Dog You accuse others of trolling, then make comments like this. Remarkable. Neither he nor his corp nor any of its members seem to have anything to do with me, my corp, IAC, farming or ISK selling. Yet still he thinks he can jump in, act cool with a personal attakc and get taken seriously while at it? On a different note, as you may have gathered from my posts i do not take this matter all too seriously, and it'd be a shame if you did.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:03:00 - [90] Edited by: Butter Dog on 30/07/2007 13:03:40 Originally by: Sokratesz Most of your 'valid points' were disproven in this or one of the many iac-farmer related threadslong ago, so please, dont go there. Please point me to a single one of the points I made which you have 'disproved'. All I see is you making personal attacks and trolling. So go ahead, refer to the post I made above (the one where you ignored the points I made) and respond intelligently to it. I'm happy to engage you in a discussion. But to be honest, I suspect you lack the intellectual rigour to sustain such a conversation. However, you're welcome to prove me wrong. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])

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