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Sorry but it seems that we need instanced battle fields (WOW ahoi!)

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d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:16:00 - [121] Originally by: Arkios Odymei Originally by: Verone Bunch of people who want to win so badly and can't face the horror of loss that they get the most MASSIVE blob of players they can[...] Everyone jumps in, shock horror the server has a brainfart! Nodes die, babies cry, raptor jesus curses everyone, mission runners in Jita lose their CNR's to a Gursitas Arrogator because of a Tsunami of lag and node drops. Cue massive whining on Eve-O about how CCP suck and their crap servers are killing the game, when in fact it's the 500 people too scared about losing a fight out in the middle of nowhere that have caused the issue. If CCP makes fleets stable, people will just think "OMG NOW WE CAN BLOB WITH MOAR PEOPLEZ! TEH SURVUR CAN HANDLE ANOTHAR 500 ON GRID!11ONE DEPLOY TEH TITAN!11" That summs it up quite nicely, tbh. no we do not have to discuss human behavour here. we play a game and in this game we are blobbing and contine to blobb as long as tehre arent any serious game changes.
Great Artista Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:17:00 - [122] I like the fact that people try to come up with ideas to solve the problem, but I think we all agree that this just wasnt it. _______ GA out.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:18:00 - [123] Originally by: Great Artista Originally by: d026 Originally by: Great Artista Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 30/07/2007 06:08:26 Originally by: Great Artista Originally by: d026 Originally by: Boma Airaken Verone wins EvE. That is all. so the only guy here bashing alliance warfare (the whole point of eve) wins eve? Well I'm sorry, but Verone just wins. YES I am in v7. I was there 10h straight in that big fight last saturday. Im not whining, lag is same to everyone, either am I not blaming you people for bringing 400 man fleet there, thus causing the 3min delay in... everything. In the current system, only solution for taking over systems IS making massive fleets. It needs a total change, instances are not it. so whats then change then? also lagg is not an issue as long as you cant even logg in/load completely desync and cant load the system for 70mins... Well its not instances for sure prove it:) Its against the basic structure, which the game was built on; in Eve everything is connected. Massive fleefight keeps people off the belts, make some run for cover ect. sorry nothing is forever there needs to be change. especially if due to lack of game design the it gets completely unplayable every 2nd weekend.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:20:00 - [124] Originally by: Great Artista I like the fact that people try to come up with ideas to solve the problem, but I think we all agree that this just wasnt it. we dont need utopic ideas. we need a solution fixing this game as soon as possible. instancing fleets for a couple of minutes for the duration of the fight imho is teh way to go. in 2-3 years if they rescripted the whole code they can remove them again:)
Iva Soreass FireStar Inc FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:31:00 - [125] <3 and /salute verone, he is so right on so many levels. I was violated by BackDoor Bandit :*( www.firestar-online.com
Great Artista Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:38:00 - [126] Originally by: d026 instancing fleets for a couple of minutes for the duration of the fight imho is teh way to go. What makes you think that everyone wants to take part in massive fleet fights, Im all comfy here, sitting on the POS in a system WE own. That is exactly the problem with instancing. Im not gonna move, you better come and get me. Unfortunatelly, you need 400 peeps to do that. _______ GA out.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:44:00 - [127] again for the people who don't have any common sense: Quote: Wait until the exchange into Revelations is complete and all the new coding, graphics, physics and optimization is complete before whining? how long? till 2009? Quote: More new hardware? More dynamic resource allocation to distribute the server's processing power more adequately to those areas of the game environment that are having issues? there istnt much to do except complete recoding eve on the very basic lvl. eve is allready runnign on ramdrives.. so i-o is at a complete max. redesigning the whole basic source would take ages imho! im not willing to wait that long. Quote: Realisation that CCP know there's an issue at times with performance, and that they're trying their hardest to overcome an ever-growing playerbase? Time? How much time? Playing a unplayable game till 2010? Quote: Remove killmails? That'd stop a big load of lag in fleet battles with so many mail deliveries... Good idea, but i dont think they have a huge influence on the server performance anyway. Quote: Oh no sorry, that'd prevent all the counterstrike migrants from declaring their leetness as they camp gates in their smartbombing capitals, or lead 200 man blobs in to shoot a control tower for five hours and declare how they "pwnt" their opposition. Stoopid dogmatism on how we should play the game. Quote: To be honest, it's irony defined : Bunch of people who want to win so badly and can't face the horror of loss that they get the most MASSIVE blob of players they can. In response their opponent says "omg moar damage!" and fields 150% their numbers. Everyone jumps in, shock horror the server has a brainfart! Nodes die, babies cry, raptor jesus curses everyone, mission runners in Jita lose their CNR's to a Gursitas Arrogator because of a Tsunami of lag and node drops. Cue massive whining on Eve-O about how CCP suck and their crap servers are killing the game, when in fact it's the 500 people too scared about losing a fight out in the middle of nowhere that have caused the issue. Whining about whining and more dogmatism. Quote: If CCP makes fleets stable, people will just think "OMG NOW WE CAN BLOB WITH MOAR PEOPLEZ! TEH SURVUR CAN HANDLE ANOTHAR 500 ON GRID!11ONE DEPLOY TEH TITAN!11" If there is a limit player/node/instance this wont happen. Quote: Maybe you could all just stop blobbing? Ever thought of that? Attempt to appeal to good conciseness which always fails. We play this game to "win" and exploit every opportunity to do so. If we trough this crash the servers there need to be game changes NOW! Quote: Oh no wait... just come to the Eve-Online forums instead, which incidentally are hosted on the SAME SERVER CLUSTER, and contribute even more to the lag and instability by whining how much CCP apparently suck, while failing to remember that without them, you wouldn't even know what the hell a Sensor Booster II was. Not my fault how CCP hosts they're board. Again whine about a whine..
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:45:00 - [128] Originally by: Great Artista Originally by: d026 instancing fleets for a couple of minutes for the duration of the fight imho is teh way to go. What makes you think that everyone wants to take part in massive fleet fights, Im all comfy here, sitting on the POS in a system WE own. That is exactly the problem with instancing. Im not gonna move, you better come and get me. Unfortunatelly, you need 400 peeps to do that. because you had invited fallen souls, m-pire, fatal each alliance with tehyr won 100 man gang. Dont blame us for blobbing, its just how the game works..
Great Artista Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:26:00 - [129] Originally by: d026 because you had invited fallen souls, m-pire, fatal each alliance with tehyr won 100 man gang. Quote: Dont blame us for blobbing, its just how the game works.. Unfortunatelly it does work that way, and Im not blaming anyone. _______ GA out.
Baugoti Amarr Middle Finger Technology Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:27:00 - [130] I remember a time when 20-30 man groups against 20-30 man groups would crash the server. Back then the milestone for logins was 12k people. Now we have on average 23k people on the server at any given time... and for the most part two 20-30 man gangs dont crash the server anymore. Eventually the technology would catch up to the super fleets. but that brings a problem of when more people show up to the game and fleets are even larger. instead of instancing they could.... sigh... get a second server for playing. Where new accounts are created on that, and even give an option to let people move there accounts over to it. X amount of players can move to the new server and start a new economy there ect. But that again would defeat the basis on what EvE was created on. Also what happens when the fights are over. Im sure there would be multiple fleet battles going on at the same time on seperate servers... when they end all those hundreds of people would log back into the main server at the same time. Would that not cause nodes to go down. Even if pilots who blew up left before everyone else did.. when the fight was over those left would then go back into the server, and a Cue system in my opinion would just cause myself to not even want to be in a fleet battle for fear of having to wait an hour to play again. Again i see where you are coming from but i can just see many more problems coming around if this is done. And i dont want to sound repetative because i know a lot of people have said this, but this will make EvE just like 90% of the other MMO's out there. And what makes EvE great is that it is its own entity and not a copy of others.

shuckstar Gallente Hauling hogs Genesis Industrial Foundation	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:56:00 - [131] Originally by: Verone Sorry, but that's not Eve, CCP just doesn't cut the mustard. Fixed
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:03:00 - [132] Verone said it all... can't believe there's an actual discussion on this topic. Having a fight that prevents others from joining in that fight cause they're not part of the fight when it started is so completely against what EVE is, it's not even funny. Go play CS.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:07:00 - [133] Originally by: Gariuys Verone said it all... can't believe there's an actual discussion on this topic. Having a fight that prevents others from joining in that fight cause they're not part of the fight when it started is so completely against what EVE is, it's not even funny. Go play CS. sorry but right now the game/server/coding does not support this open end approach. if you fail to see this i'm not sure how we can help you.. but leaving the game unplayable as it is, is just not an option!
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:11:00 - [134] Originally by: d026 Originally by: Gariuys Verone said it all... can't believe there's an actual discussion on this topic. Having a fight that prevents others from joining in that fight cause they're not part of the fight when it started is so completely against what EVE is, it's not even funny. Go play CS. sorry but right now the game/server/coding does not support this open end approach. if you fail to see this i'm not sure how we can help you.. but leaving the game unplayable as it is, is just not an option! Sorry, but right now blobbing is not required for overall gameplay, you just insist upon doing it. If you fail to see this, I'm not sure how we can help you, but bashing your head against a wall repeatedly and demanding CCP put in padding is just not an option.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:15:00 - [135] so anyway we have to reduce eves flexibility. if there is no limit on the nodes it will always come to overload. if we heavily force small gang combat and penalize large gangs for using more than 50/100(?) ships there is no place for the 3rd party aswell, due to the fact that the 3rd party would get penalized to hell. in the end, eve will never function properly without limitations to gang sizes. so either that or instancing. we cant have both, endless possibilities and stable performance.. at least not with the current eve coding/server architecture.
Sniper Kalahari Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:18:00 - [136] What I find most amusing is the inability of most to read the actual ideas being put forward. If the OP (or me) had called the thread "Server Reinforcement for Fleet Combat" then I reckon the majority of ppl would be for it lol
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:18:00 - [137] Edited by: d026 on 30/07/2007 08:24:04 Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: d026 Originally by: Gariuys Verone said it all... can't believe there's an actual discussion on this topic. Having a fight that prevents others from joining in that fight cause they're not part of the fight when it started is so completely against what EVE is, it's not even funny. Go play CS. sorry but right now the game/server/coding does not support this open end approach. if you fail to see this i'm not sure how we can help you.. but leaving the game unplayable as it is, is just not an option! Sorry, but right now blobbing is not required for overall gameplay, you just insist upon doing it. If you fail to see this, I'm not sure how we can help you, but bashing your head against a wall repeatedly and demanding CCP put in padding is just not an option. sorry we dont have to argue this. blobbign is fact! either ccp implements means to prevent blobbing or it will occur no matter what. And as long as it its possible to blobb i expect CCP to be able to deliver a node where its possible to fight. Especially if per game design its often needed to blobb (eg taking out a pos).
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Vitae Mecha	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:26:00 - [138] no to private instancing yes to fixing lag yes to fixing the blob problem, prefereably with more support for individual ship roles and tactics. NO TO SLEEPING WITH VERONE, get out of his pants damnit lol.
Sniper Kalahari Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:28:00 - [139] I seem to vaguely remember a thread just like this....
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:28:00 - [140] Edited by: d026 on 30/07/2007 08:29:50 Originally by: Jessica Lorelei no to private instancing yes to fixing lag yes to fixing the blob problem, prefereably with more support for individual ship roles and tactics. NO TO SLEEPING WITH VERONE, get out of his pants damnit lol. anyway what i don't get... if we fix the blob, it will keep much more people off the fight than a private instance:9 and if you check Sniper Kalahari suggestions, the instances dont have to be private at all..

Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Vitae Mecha	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:30:00 - [141] large fleets doesn't have to equal blob. watch films about space battles, they don't blob each other they use battle tactics. all we see in eve is concentrating fire, its not exactly fun.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:33:00 - [142] Edited by: d026 on 30/07/2007 08:33:52 Originally by: Jessica Lorelei large fleets doesn't have to equal blob. watch films about space battles, they don't blob each other they use battle tactics. all we see in eve is concentrating fire, its not exactly fun. thats completely not my issue. i dont care about concentrated fire. i care about beeing able to logg in and have a fight rather than getting lagged out/desynced/kicked off the server. anyway destroy the blobb means to reduce its size because the server cant handle 400 people on the same grid shooting each other. if we have fixed the rudimentary basic stuff we can go on and talk about tactics and stuff and how fights could be more fun for everybody:)
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:34:00 - [143] Verone is Win. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:34:00 - [144] Originally by: Crumplecorn Verone is Win. and you are Lose:)
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Vitae Mecha	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:38:00 - [145] Originally by: Crumplecorn Verone is Win. sycophant
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:41:00 - [146] Originally by: Jessica Lorelei Originally by: Crumplecorn Verone is Win. sycophant lets make a beat out of him:O
Dr Slaughter Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:35:00 - [147] Originally by: Aridia Parker Maybe a solution would be a functionality reduction along with the number of ships in the same grid. What, like, when the average grid cpu load of the last 2 minutes >= 95%, damage in that grid is turned off? When avr. grid cpu load (2 mins) >= 99% all drones are returned to cargo and ships are randomly translocated (in groups of 20) to systems in neigbouring nodes... Personally I wish when a node can't 'take it anymore' they would simply disable damage (so no petitions needed) and allow us to re-locate our ships back to 1 of 3 nominated fall-back locations. oh, and fix desync.. obviously :) Originally by: fire 59 Arguing with stupid people is like trying to bite your own elbow.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:56:00 - [148] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Originally by: Aridia Parker Maybe a solution would be a functionality reduction along with the number of ships in the same grid. What, like, when the average grid cpu load of the last 2 minutes >= 95%, damage in that grid is turned off? When avr. grid cpu load (2 mins) >= 99% all drones are returned to cargo and ships are randomly translocated (in groups of 20) to systems in neigbouring nodes... Personally I wish when a node can't 'take it anymore' they would simply disable damage (so no petitions needed) and allow us to re-locate our ships back to 1 of 3 nominated fall-back locations. oh, and fix desync.. obviously :) no what he meant was something like that the server only calculates the damage for one turret/ship then multiply this ammount by fitted guns/ship for example..
Ovno ConSyquence Amarr The Plebians	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:02:00 - [149] Right, 1st off i gave up after the second page so i don't know if this has been suggested yet.... Rather than complex instanceing etc... which could change the way the game works, would it not be better to just be able to ask the devs to move a system/constelation/region to a more powerful node for the duration of a war, so that when you know there are going to be large battles there over the next couple of weeks the devs can vbe prepaired and assign more resources at the next downtime? I admit its not as quick and adaptable but it would mean that any large campaigns had it a lot better than they do now....
Dr Slaughter Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:20:00 - [150] Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence Right, 1st off i gave up after the second page so i don't know if this has been suggested yet.... Rather than complex instanceing etc... which could change the way the game works, would it not be better to just be able to ask the devs to move a system/constelation/region to a more powerful node for the duration of a war, so that when you know there are going to be large battles there over the next couple of weeks the devs can vbe prepaired and assign more resources at the next downtime? I admit its not as quick and adaptable but it would mean that any large campaigns had it a lot better than they do now.... That would require them to move it at DT but it doesn't solve the issue as they don't have a node that can handle the biggest battles and until they can distribute grid load across multiple CPUs and servers they can't do much. Really we should just stop blobbing and fix it ourselves but it's too tempting to sit looking at the login prompt isn't it? Originally by: fire 59 Arguing with stupid people is like trying to bite your own elbow.



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