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Jehuty Vanricadia Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.29 13:41:00 - [1] Edited by: Jehuty Vanricadia on 29/07/2007 13:42:52 http://i13.tinypic.com/688zvjk.jpg http://i11.tinypic.com/5ycekb8.jpg So it looks like Amarr is getting a new " boost " which is missile boats. I am totally bewildered how you could possibly see this as a boost CCP? If you have any clue about amarr specialized pilots you will know that they have slim to non missile skillpoints. I am honestly interested to know if any member of CCP a) plays this game b) ever played amarr You continue to fail to see the issues with amarr, there is a key to is continued failings: 1. crystal damage types 2. Cap issues So why not give us crystals that don't just do EM and thermal damage? Why not give us a cap bonus? The Anathema is the only ship you have bothered to give a cap bonus to " 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time per level " It is simply one of the biggest issues of Amarr but you continue to miss it? Why not fix amarr rather than just ******ly change it? How well has the EANM nerf helped, go on, tell me what has it actually done to help amarr? Nothing at all. How about fix it rather than change it stupidly? Or is that simply too much to ask? Why should we have to train to use a ship we can already fly and fly perfectly.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.29 13:52:00 - [2] Why your picture seem false? Maybe because the character used in the text isn't those used in EVE? My opinion is that you have been mislead and those pictures are a photoshop work.
Jehuty Vanricadia Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.29 13:58:00 - [3] Originally by: Venkul Mul Why your picture seem false? Maybe because the character used in the text isn't those used in EVE? My opinion is that you have been mislead and those pictures are a photoshop work. Umm how so? I dont believe I am.
Mr Portamento 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.29 14:26:00 - [4] Don't think the changes are that bad at all. Until now Amarrians only had to train armor and gunnery skills, while minmatar had to train shield/armor and gunnery/missiles. Caldari had to train gunnery/missiles. Gallente, drones/gunnery. But the bonuses shouldn't be only for short range missiles tho, since Amarr isn't the fastest out there. The vengeance might need a bit more CPU. For the other ships i can get decent fittings. But i agree this is only a khanid fix, it isn't the overall much needed Amarr boost.
Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 14:46:00 - [5] I see the new changes in Khanid awesome... ________________________________________
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.07.29 14:47:00 - [6] The Amarr Boost would be upping the Damage of Laser by about 15% flat or changing the Cap Bonus to something else end lowering the cap use of lasers. Why? Right now the higher Damage modifier of Lasers is not a Bonus, but a TRADE OFF for having either lower optimal (beams) oder less tracking (pulse). You cant even say its a trade off for higher fitting, look at abaddon or crusader, same grid as minmatar variants hehe. So the Cap Need is in no way justified and steals a Bonus. In the end Lasers still use cap while getting nothing. Fair? Thats the reasen why lasers suck in general, the cap use bonus is just missleading. You cant realy switch damage types because its not lasers fault that everyone and his dog armor tanks in pvp. Then we have ships that could need adjusting, but we need to decide first wether to remove the cap use bonus or upping laser damage. ________________ Kali 3.0 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf! -Armageddon: +1 Missile Slot -Maller: Autocannon RoF Bonus -Apocalypse: 5% Mining Bonus -Zealot: +10% more golden hull
SmokeMeAKipper Amarr Unrepentant Inc	Posted - 2007.07.29 16:31:00 - [7] not saying im impressed with the changes but if they are going to do it anyway then please please make it rockets & lights as well as HAML and HML, not just 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast - - - - - - - - - - - -
BalderDK	Posted - 2007.07.29 16:32:00 - [8] Originally by: Mr Portamento Don't think the changes are that bad at all. Until now Amarrians only had to train armor and gunnery skills, while minmatar had to train shield/armor and gunnery/missiles. Caldari had to train gunnery/missiles. Gallente, drones/gunnery. But the bonuses shouldn't be only for short range missiles tho, since Amarr isn't the fastest out there. The vengeance might need a bit more CPU. For the other ships i can get decent fittings. But i agree this is only a khanid fix, it isn't the overall much needed Amarr boost. so very wrong dude amarr uses drones to if you don't know this your deffo not an amarr player so now we have to train laser, armor, drones, AND missiles WTF???
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.29 16:44:00 - [9] Originally by: BalderDK so very wrong dude amarr uses drones to if you don't know this your deffo not an amarr player so now we have to train laser, armor, drones, AND missiles WTF??? Omg yeah how terrible, like Caldari have to train missiles, hybrids, shields and drones to use their entire arsenal, and Minmatar have to train projectiles, missiles, shields, armor and drones for theirs... Clearly this is totally not in line with the rest of the game and Amarr should be forever confined to lasers and armor. Scandalous to be open minded enough for anything else. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Kainan Mai Amarr System-Lords Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: BalderDK so very wrong dude amarr uses drones to if you don't know this your deffo not an amarr player so now we have to train laser, armor, drones, AND missiles WTF??? Omg yeah how terrible, like Caldari have to train missiles, hybrids, shields and drones to use their entire arsenal, and Minmatar have to train projectiles, missiles, shields, armor and drones for theirs... Clearly this is totally not in line with the rest of the game and Amarr should be forever confined to lasers and armor. Scandalous to be open minded enough for anything else. This still doesn't "fix" Amarr, just makes for even more to train and you already need to train everything in gunnery and drones, and cap skills to be able to do any sort of damage.. Popz! Popz!
MrNerdo Gallente Serenity Inc	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:25:00 - [11] I completly agree. The idea of having ammar use missiles is ok. But drasticly altering the specs on the ships to more missile launcher hardpoints then turrets is completly wrong. CCP you need to get things straight. ======================================== Please contact me ingame if i win a auction.
Lt Angus Caldari the united	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:25:00 - [12] nerfing damnation even more nice.... Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Vaine Amarr Amarr Upright Citizens Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:43:00 - [13] Only bonuses to short range missiles? __________________________ It's great beeing Amarr, ain't it? O rly?
6Bagheera9 Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:54:00 - [14] This looks promising, but still needs more work. The restriction to short-range missiles simply won't do.
Deva Blackfire Citadel of dark arts	Posted - 2007.07.29 18:04:00 - [15] Its not amarr boost (the one needed for laserboats) but so called "Khanid MK2" - boost for Khanid boats which plain suck. As for changes: heretic - comparable to catcher (might be better in some situations) maled - close range missile ceptor. Will need to operate in web range. Just give it a bit more base armor (instead of shields) and you got a winner here. sacri - me loves it. HEAVY missile damage but on very close range. Add good tank and nosf = win :) Just make sure it can be fit properly :S anathema - dunno, its covops anyways... vengeance - never liked it but seems that it can be pretty decent dmg dealer close by. Not cap dependant so all cap can go for tank. And with dual tank bonus :) damnation - crap like always ;p Missile claymore, nothing else :) Eos is still best fleet command ship. Anyways i like it. Hope thats close to final version so i may start training t2 HAMs and rockets :)
Rugs Dragon Highlords	Posted - 2007.07.29 18:09:00 - [16] Crap, Crap and mega crap. Now i can finally put those 2000SP i have in missiles to good use, no wait i have to train a few mil SP and then be limited to short range missile. This is the "boost" all Amarr pilots have been waiting for yay \o/ Amarr: where you have to train absolutely everything in game to be useful, what's next? Shield tanks on Zealots/Absolutions?
Kyozoku Mutiny.	Posted - 2007.07.29 18:23:00 - [17] Edited by: Kyozoku on 29/07/2007 18:25:55 Originally by: SmokeMeAKipper not saying im impressed with the changes but if they are going to do it anyway then please please make it rockets & lights as well as HAML and HML, not just 1 I believe they're being restricted to close range missiles to prevent them from using speed setups which would be quite imbalanced.
Darth Farmer	Posted - 2007.07.29 18:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Rugs Crap, Crap and mega crap. Now i can finally put those 2000SP i have in missiles to good use, no wait i have to train a few mil SP and then be limited to short range missile. This is the "boost" all Amarr pilots have been waiting for yay \o/ Amarr: where you have to train absolutely everything in game to be useful, what's next? Shield tanks on Zealots/Absolutions? no only the retribution will get the shield bonuses
Deva Blackfire Citadel of dark arts	Posted - 2007.07.29 18:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Rugs Crap, Crap and mega crap. Now i can finally put those 2000SP i have in missiles to good use, no wait i have to train a few mil SP and then be limited to short range missile. This is the "boost" all Amarr pilots have been waiting for yay \o/ Amarr: where you have to train absolutely everything in game to be useful, what's next? Shield tanks on Zealots/Absolutions? Uh actually this version of khanids hits the "niche" role. Close range missile boats with good tanks. You can deal pretty decent missile damage + tank + tackle. Which for.ex. cerb cannot. Also sacri outdamages cerb when using HAMs other than kinetic (DMG bonus vs KIN bonus). Thats very good for amarr that were stuck with stupid EM damage.
Sylek Amarr Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.29 18:33:00 - [20] Edited by: Sylek on 29/07/2007 18:33:40 Seriously WTF? So I guess the Vengeance is now like a mini kestrel with rockets that armor tanks. And the Damnation is a HAM ship? Without a range bonus? Who thought of this? This is terrible! There is a reason people don't fit HAMs to anything else than the Cerberus, the fact that their range suck. And Amarr ships aren't the fastest around, I don't see why you're restricting an Amarr Command Ship to a **ty close range missile that does ty damage. There's a reason pulse lasers have a big optimal and falloff, it's that Amarr ships take long getting into range. And the Malediction ... Just ... 3 Lows 3 Meds 4 Highs 3 Missile Hardpoints Same as a Crow, wow! And a bonus to ROCKETS. You could have at least given us SOME long range potential. This way, all our bonuses are restricted to using short range weapons, and not only that but short range missiles which suck anyway. Our Laser ships still do EM. Our missile ships still suck. It's totally true that Amarr, and the khanid ships especially needed some "oomph". This is not that oomph. This is just ****** /me sells off Khanid ships.
Deva Blackfire Citadel of dark arts	Posted - 2007.07.29 18:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Sylek /me sells off Khanid ships. I hope cheap coz if it stays im willing to buy some.
Gibbal Slogspit Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.07.29 18:46:00 - [22] Just no CCP. Why only bonuses to close range missiles? I like my sacr with guns, so I was hoping this new one would at least give me a bit of range. I mean...WTF, heavy assualt missiles only? Oh yea, the high slots on this MKII are sure gunna be hard to guess. Pfff.
Deva Blackfire Citadel of dark arts	Posted - 2007.07.29 18:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Gibbal Slogspit Just no CCP. Why only bonuses to close range missiles? I like my sacr with guns, so I was hoping this new one would at least give me a bit of range. I mean...WTF, heavy assualt missiles only? Oh yea, the high slots on this MKII are sure gunna be hard to guess. Pfff. Its exactly THE SAME thing which happened when CCP took away missile bonus from sac. I loved to use missiles on it and then they put lazors. Half of ppl whined, other took it ASAP. Now it goes back to old-style sacri (tho more powerful)
s1n1ster m1n1ster Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.29 18:59:00 - [24] Boo Hoo.... "only bonus to short range " Even though i believe these shots are faked, this would be a great change for half of the amarr fleet. /me buys as many heretics as possible!
Lucas Avidius Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.07.29 19:09:00 - [25] I don't even fly Amarr and I hope this is a joke/fake. Amarr needs some real love, not getting some of their decent ships nerfed into obscurity.
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.07.29 19:09:00 - [26] well if it goes through they better add a lot of CPU to everything else we wont be able to fit it. ------------- Hadean Drive Yards
Sylek Amarr Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.29 19:13:00 - [27] Originally by: s1n1ster m1n1ster Boo Hoo.... "only bonus to short range " Even though i believe these shots are faked, this would be a great change for half of the amarr fleet. So tell me about other races that have half of their T2 RESTRICTED to close range. (Tbh I'm looking forward to trying it out, but I'm still a bit pessimistic. It doesn't look very promising.)
BlackHorizon Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.29 19:14:00 - [28] Wonderful changes CCP. Finally some flavor to Amarr T2 ships. Now Amarr finally has an option to fighting under nosferatu. The new ships: Malediction -- best webbing tackler now, possibly better than the stilleto. HAM Sacrilege -- Excellent solo PvP HAC or heavy tackler that is resistant to Nosferatu Damnation -- Finally, it will be able to sustain those cap-hungry gang link modules and still do some very nice dps Heretic -- It's now an inty/Sabre killer. Any inty that gets into web range of a Heretic will die. Better than a Flycatcher when operating under web range.
Sandra Jones	Posted - 2007.07.29 19:38:00 - [29] cant believe that... well anyways - i win :) but seriously: where are those screenshots from?
Ellaine TashMurkon MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.07.29 19:51:00 - [30] Its not "fix for Amarr". Its fix for Khanid ships, that were sommonly seen as next to useless because they used little of everything and nothing well. Well, all khanid ships doing things other then gun damage were ok (Malediction, Curse, Heretic). But no one liked ther AF and HAC, even having great tank on that HAC (Sacrilege). It does not solve problems with lasers because it has nothing to do with them.
deadok Amarr Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 20:10:00 - [31] Originally by: BlackHorizon Malediction -- best webbing tackler now, possibly better than the stilleto. oh yeah, here we got one more rocketcrow, oh... Quote: Heretic -- It's now an ...Sabre killer.... Errm, 90dps against 180+... but we'll get some really nice tank on heretic to counter that, right? Heretic-rocketboat = heretic-split-platform = crap. You're drinking too much BH, too much.
BlackHorizon Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.29 20:33:00 - [32] Edited by: BlackHorizon on 29/07/2007 20:41:24 Originally by: deadok Originally by: BlackHorizon Malediction -- best webbing tackler now, possibly better than the stilleto. oh yeah, here we got one more rocketcrow, oh... Quote: Heretic -- It's now an ...Sabre killer.... Errm, 90dps against 180+... but we'll get some really nice tank on heretic to counter that, right? Heretic-rocketboat = heretic-split-platform = crap. You're drinking too much BH, too much. Malediction -- Crow is better for long range but rocket Malediction is faster and has more effective HP. Cheap webbing inty -- if you have more ISK, nanohuggin will be better. Sabre will most likely fight in falloff so dps will be much less. I agree Heretic could use more armor or a armor resistance bonus. Sabre will still be the best interdictor.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.07.29 20:40:00 - [33] Did the Sacriledge just get some WTFPWN stats? Go home Cerberus :p - I'm a nice guy!! MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!!
Sazkyen	Posted - 2007.07.29 20:46:00 - [34] The Sacrilege looks awesome but it definitely needs more cargo space to carry the missiles.
Fon Revedhort Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2007.07.29 20:51:00 - [35] They reduced Powergrid output on Damnation? WTF? Do they know how many MWs each gang link consumes? Splendid... ---
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.29 21:11:00 - [36] Bleh I don't want to hear Amarr complaining anymore. This is a good change, now only if CCP would allow HAM's to be fitted on Caldari ships without gimping their setup. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Deva Blackfire Citadel of dark arts	Posted - 2007.07.29 21:30:00 - [37] Originally by: Fon Revedhort Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 29/07/2007 21:05:44 They reduced Powergrid output on Damnation? WTF? Do they know how many MWs each gang link consumes? Splendid... Seems now it is supposed to shield tank with Shield Extenders. HAMs use 125 grid compared to 200 or so on heavy pulses (forgot how much they take ;p)
deadok Amarr Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 21:52:00 - [38] Once upon time malediction was the only semi-good amarr long inty. Amen. Damn i'm starting to look for a decent setup for raptor, it is cheaper and gives more damage on long range.
Rezerwowy Pies Phobos Nanotechnology Sempiternus	Posted - 2007.07.29 22:07:00 - [39] If CCP really want to FIX amarian ships/primary weapon systems, should: - Fix (yes its 'broken') Controlled bursts skill, to 10% reduction in cap use, - Increase dmg on crystals by 10-15% - Add/Change few crystals to Explo/Kinetic dmg type - Reduce PG req on T2 laser turrets a little.
Deva Blackfire Citadel of dark arts	Posted - 2007.07.29 22:13:00 - [40] Originally by: Rezerwowy Pies If CCP really want to FIX amarian ships/primary weapon systems, should: - Fix (yes its 'broken') Controlled bursts skill, to 10% reduction in cap use, - Increase dmg on crystals by 10-15% - Add/Change few crystals to Explo/Kinetic dmg type - Reduce PG req on T2 laser turrets a little. Hi sir, you are stupid. This is KHANID change not AMARR boost. Khanids = black (dark green/blue) ships. Namely: sacrilege/veng/maled/anathema/damnation/heretic. The ships that cost 50% of other comparable ones on market and almost dont sell.
Rezerwowy Pies Phobos Nanotechnology Sempiternus	Posted - 2007.07.29 22:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Rezerwowy Pies If CCP really want to FIX amarian ships/primary weapon systems, should: - Fix (yes its 'broken') Controlled bursts skill, to 10% reduction in cap use, - Increase dmg on crystals by 10-15% - Add/Change few crystals to Explo/Kinetic dmg type - Reduce PG req on T2 laser turrets a little. Hi sir, you are stupid. This is KHANID change not AMARR boost. LOL I'm not talking about khanid you dumb kid, im talking about amarr...
Fon Revedhort Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2007.07.29 22:52:00 - [42] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Fon Revedhort Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 29/07/2007 21:05:44 They reduced Powergrid output on Damnation? WTF? Do they know how many MWs each gang link consumes? Splendid... Seems now it is supposed to shield tank with Shield Extenders. HAMs use 125 grid compared to 200 or so on heavy pulses (forgot how much they take ;p) So what? I can't fit heavy guns on it now anyway. Using 200 PG per gun is a luxury I can not afford. Even if you are ******** enough to scrap good tank and start placing heaviest weapons avail, with the figures given above you will run out of: - CPU (since missiles use them more than laz0rz) - cargo space (singe lences take only 1 m3 and rockets take a lot) So meh... ---
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.29 23:02:00 - [43] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 29/07/2007 23:04:59 I think the changes are towards a step in the right direction. These ships were mostly between 3rds class and "waste of isk", and now they are usable. Useable as in competitive against other races. Perhaps a few changes, such as bonus's, but either way, its a step in the correct direction. Training misiles is fairly easy as well, a month max to have good missile skills with a paticular type. Now I await the apoc to be changed into a 8 Torp boat with a 10% em damage bonus Make EM damage scary again! -- Billion Isk Mission
deadok Amarr Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 23:24:00 - [44] Quote: These ships were mostly between 3rds class and "waste of isk", and now they are usable
deadok Amarr Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 23:30:00 - [45] I GOT IT!!!111 Caldari rocks in pvp + Amarr is omfgbbq in pvp = "I-Win button" ps. note to self: find a solution for killing long inties in rocket -heretic, must be something obvious.
Imode 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.30 02:05:00 - [46] All hail Khanid, our new nano overlords.
Naomi Wildfire Amarr Stardust Heavy Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2007.07.30 02:32:00 - [47] Did you ever heard of a laser that causes not em and heat damage? Its not a bulled nor something that can explode. EM/TH is the best logical thing and it wont get changed. I like the new Sac because it was crap before, the Heretic is fine also, but i think its allround damage bonus is a bit strange. I know no other ship that has a bonus like this. I also think that the Sac is a bid too good compared with the Cerb except for killing small fast ships. It can tank a load, nos and outdamage a cerb. The Damnation is worse, its prevous stats only needs a little tuning. I really dont like that one.
deadok Amarr Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:08:00 - [48] Quote: The Khanid Kingdom ships possess ... fairly robust electronics systems A-ha, Malediction with 18km base lock range. Kewl.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:53:00 - [49] Originally by: Naomi Wildfire I also think that the Sac is a bid too good compared with the Cerb except for killing small fast ships. It can tank a load, nos and outdamage a cerb. A shield tanked launcher curse can also outtank a cerb, out nos a cerp, and outnos a cerb -- Billion Isk Mission
Sartaron Amarr Quantar Swords SynchronizerZ	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:10:00 - [50] Edited by: Sartaron on 30/07/2007 08:13:01 Edited by: Sartaron on 30/07/2007 08:12:15 Edited by: Sartaron on 30/07/2007 08:11:06 Originally by: Naomi Wildfire Did you ever heard of a laser that causes not em and heat damage? Its not a bulled nor something that can explode. EM/TH is the best logical thing and it wont get changed. I A laser on a very high frequency could heaten up thigs so fast, that their thermic deformation would cause so much tension on the armor that the effect would be an explosion. Another reason for explosive damage could be, that the laser affects the alloys on the armor on a molecular level in an explosive way. I always wondered, what the EM-Damage on armor/hull really is, when not regarded to shields
TerrorWOLF PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:27:00 - [51] This is not Amarr fix, its the CCP version of Khanid MK2 in this post click. It would be good but only if there where bonuses for long range and short range missiles. May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
Tortatratotrigidron	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:35:00 - [52] Close range missiles...yeah...BTW, Javelin HAMs can travel up to 63 km...
Heelay Ashrum Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:42:00 - [53] Edited by: Heelay Ashrum on 30/07/2007 09:44:25 Finally a step in the right direction. But what i dont undertand is the limits to "short range missiles only". Checking for example the crow/malediction differences: CROW: 10% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage per level 10% bonus to Missile Velocity per level 5% reduction in Signature Radius MALEDICTION: 5% rocket dammage 5% EM dammage 5% tanking bonus 5% reduction in Signature Radius In other words, using a crow to get the 50% damage u need just "frigate 5" ( embedded) and apply to all kinetic missiles ( 0% damage bonus to other missiles). The malediction instead to get 50% damage need also intie 5 and apply only to EM and rocket launchers ... the malediction is not just more skill intensive ( need intie 5), but also is forced to go in web range to be effective as a crow. The only situation there a malediction is equal to the crow is when both pilot get intie 5, both use rockets, and both use the damage type bonus. In all other situations the crow is still much better and more versatile. I think the malediction should have the 5% bonus applied to all missiles ( rockets and lights). It will be still more skill intensive ( due to the other 5% in em damage coming from intie skill). But is still quite fair. Change the bonus in ROF would be perfect!!! Same thing for the Sacri/Cerberus comparison. Why just bonuses on HAM ? IF ccp is planing to change the bonuses to all T2 ships then it make sense. Else i realy dont understand. CCP is plaing to change all bonuses ( "rails" or "blasters" , "artillery" or "autocannons", "hams" or "heavy missiles" , not just "medium" ) ??? IF the answer is "yes2 then the Khanid would be perfect, else i just dont understand this odd choise.
TerrorWOLF PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:42:00 - [54] Originally by: Tortatratotrigidron Close range missiles...yeah...BTW, Javelin HAMs can travel up to 63 km... Cerberus is amarr ship ?? May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
Tortatratotrigidron	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:39:00 - [55] Can't see where i mentioned Cerberus. BTW, HAMs fired from Cerb can travel up to 95km. See the difference?
Caldari Citizen 6280 Various Disease	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:56:00 - [56] OP is right we need lasers that fire light that somehow explodes when it hits, like in plan 9 from outer space. --- Secret Forum Alt Secret Forum Alt They've given you a number because your name was offensive.
Tzeriz	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:08:00 - [57] Originally by: Caldari Citizen 6280 OP is right we need lasers that fire light that somehow explodes when it hits, like in plan 9 from outer space. Best movie of all time tbh!
Alha Qmar Caldari Xenon Logistics	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:19:00 - [58] nooo gallente is no longer uber. I think these changes look quiet promising. Sacrilege seems to become alot better. Prices in jita are already going up....
Jinmie	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:21:00 - [59] Edited by: Jinmie on 30/07/2007 11:21:15 Your pictures clearly show the Vengeance, Damnation and Sacriledge with cap bonuses too, not just the Anathema. You should have gone to specsavers.
Meepie	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:23:00 - [60] Originally by: BalderDK Originally by: Mr Portamento Don't think the changes are that bad at all. Until now Amarrians only had to train armor and gunnery skills, while minmatar had to train shield/armor and gunnery/missiles. Caldari had to train gunnery/missiles. Gallente, drones/gunnery. But the bonuses shouldn't be only for short range missiles tho, since Amarr isn't the fastest out there. The vengeance might need a bit more CPU. For the other ships i can get decent fittings. But i agree this is only a khanid fix, it isn't the overall much needed Amarr boost. so very wrong dude amarr uses drones to if you don't know this your deffo not an amarr player so now we have to train laser, armor, drones, AND missiles WTF??? Gallente Hybrids, Missiles, Armour, Drones too..... But please, cry more, it's funny.
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:18:00 - [61] I don't fly Amarr and really am quite ignorant about it. Having said that, I think its a little unsporting to change the bonuses to a couple of amarr ships, forcing them to train for missiles in pvp (speccing another weapon system 4tl) only to discover that missiles suck in pvp. Why not just fix lasers? DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:31:00 - [62] Originally by: Meepie Originally by: BalderDK Originally by: Mr Portamento Don't think the changes are that bad at all. Until now Amarrians only had to train armor and gunnery skills, while minmatar had to train shield/armor and gunnery/missiles. Caldari had to train gunnery/missiles. Gallente, drones/gunnery. But the bonuses shouldn't be only for short range missiles tho, since Amarr isn't the fastest out there. The vengeance might need a bit more CPU. For the other ships i can get decent fittings. But i agree this is only a khanid fix, it isn't the overall much needed Amarr boost. so very wrong dude amarr uses drones to if you don't know this your deffo not an amarr player so now we have to train laser, armor, drones, AND missiles WTF??? Gallente Hybrids, Missiles, Armour, Drones too..... But please, cry more, it's funny. caldari: missiles, rails, blasters, drones, ew, shield
ImmortaL ZoorZ Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:46:00 - [63] Edited by: ImmortaL ZoorZ on 30/07/2007 13:46:09 boost gallente ;)
Heelay Ashrum Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:00:00 - [64] Originally by: R3dSh1ft I don't fly Amarr and really am quite ignorant about it. Having said that, I think its a little unsporting to change the bonuses to a couple of amarr ships, forcing them to train for missiles in pvp (speccing another weapon system 4tl) only to discover that missiles suck in pvp. Why not just fix lasers? Lasers are not the issue.. we are not talking about all amarr ships , just about khanid ships. They are different as classic amarr ships. Amarr have standard laser ships and "half caldari" ships ( khanid). Like for Caldari that have missile boats and railgun boats ( or gallente ad drone ships and or blaster ships). 2 different trees. The fact is that since now the "khanid" ships was quite crap. Sacrilege was the less used HAC, Damnation was the less used command ship. Vengeance was simply the worst AF ingame. The problem was that they had weapons splitted "half missile" & "half lasers" and often not any dammage bonus. They was good tankers ( the amar part) but the DPS was laughable. The new design of those ships finally give a rule for this ships not much used since now. Classic T2 amar ships ( zealot, absolution, retribution, crusaders): lot of lasers and dammage bonus on lasers. Khanid T2 ships: ( vengeance, malediction, sacrilege, damnation): Half amar, halt caldari ( amar tank and caldari missiles). The problem was that give them a laser bonus does not make any sense ( whould be like the standard tree) but a half/half was quite crap. Finally they got enough launchers, and even a damage bonus on missiles. This is the correct path. Is a shame that ccp understood this after years, but "later is better than never". Asking to make them laser boats is like ask to make rock a missile boat so u train missile only ( istead of the actual railgun), or dominix a blaster boat ( instead of drone). CCP finally did the right thing ...
Airpizza II Virtual Warriors	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:28:00 - [65] Edited by: Airpizza II on 30/07/2007 14:29:28 Looks interesting tbh. I just donÆt like the HAM limit on the ship bonus, make it HAM's and HM's and your on the right track. As others have already pointed out, this is a Khanid fix i.e. Missiles on shiny black ships Either way itÆs nice to see CCP actually looking seriously at changing some nearly useless ships and giving Amarr some variety. I look forward to the finished product. Cheers to CCP!
Asmodean Reborn	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:40:00 - [66] This is all well and good, but it just sucks a bit when I have 3mil SP in gunnery and 25k of missile skills. I don't really mind since Caldari need to train gunnery and missiles to be able to use all of their ships properly and Gallente have to train drones and gunnery to do the same. Minmatar still have it worst imo :( Good idea, a few things need sorting out... Malediction needs a big bonus to rocket damage/rof if its gonna have to sit under web range. Hopefully with a decent tank it may be able to do more dot if it can hang on. Let us have heavy missiles as well as HAMs. Less time to train for (so we can actually still use the ships that we've been using for ages) and a bit more range option (forgetting javelins ofc).
Jinmie	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:57:00 - [67] Originally by: d026 Originally by: Meepie Originally by: BalderDK Originally by: Mr Portamento Don't think the changes are that bad at all. Until now Amarrians only had to train armor and gunnery skills, while minmatar had to train shield/armor and gunnery/missiles. Caldari had to train gunnery/missiles. Gallente, drones/gunnery. But the bonuses shouldn't be only for short range missiles tho, since Amarr isn't the fastest out there. The vengeance might need a bit more CPU. For the other ships i can get decent fittings. But i agree this is only a khanid fix, it isn't the overall much needed Amarr boost. so very wrong dude amarr uses drones to if you don't know this your deffo not an amarr player so now we have to train laser, armor, drones, AND missiles WTF??? Gallente Hybrids, Missiles, Armour, Drones too..... But please, cry more, it's funny. caldari: missiles, rails, blasters, drones, ew, shield Hi kiddy, this is not comparing who has to train loads, simply stating that the other kiddy felt Amarr suddenly had to train more than everyone else when infact, they now train as many different things. But for your kiddywinkles sake, Gallente rails, blasters, missiles, armour, shields, ew, drones. Plus your sig sucks and you're ugly >.<
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:19:00 - [68] Edited by: d026 on 30/07/2007 15:19:17 Originally by: Jinmie Originally by: d026 Originally by: Meepie Originally by: BalderDK Originally by: Mr Portamento Don't think the changes are that bad at all. Until now Amarrians only had to train armor and gunnery skills, while minmatar had to train shield/armor and gunnery/missiles. Caldari had to train gunnery/missiles. Gallente, drones/gunnery. But the bonuses shouldn't be only for short range missiles tho, since Amarr isn't the fastest out there. The vengeance might need a bit more CPU. For the other ships i can get decent fittings. But i agree this is only a khanid fix, it isn't the overall much needed Amarr boost. so very wrong dude amarr uses drones to if you don't know this your deffo not an amarr player so now we have to train laser, armor, drones, AND missiles WTF??? Gallente Hybrids, Missiles, Armour, Drones too..... But please, cry more, it's funny. caldari: missiles, rails, blasters, drones, ew, shield Hi kiddy, this is not comparing who has to train loads, simply stating that the other kiddy felt Amarr suddenly had to train more than everyone else when infact, they now train as many different things. But for your kiddywinkles sake, Gallente rails, blasters, missiles, armour, shields, ew, drones. Plus your sig sucks and you're ugly >.< dude i wanted to support you got it all wrong:) btw your sig sucks too:)
Jotan Veer HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:25:00 - [69] This is from the devblog: Quote: The Heretic has similar bonuses to the Flycatcher, but the rockets only damage bonus and the low CPU makes rockets more suitable than standard missiles. The Explosion velocity bonus makes the Heretic better for taking down high speed targets vs. low speed, low signature radius targets for the Flycatcher. I'm crying here. Not tears of joy. Tears of frustration. Whoever wrote that, could you please get the idea into your thick skull that Flycatchers can not be fitted with a rack of T2 standard missiles? Everyone in their right mind fits them with rocket launchers too because the ship simply does NOT have enough CPU/PG to be fitted otherwise. I'm happy for the amarr interdictor pilots (the few who haven't learned to fly the Sabre yet) because they just got their dictor booster to the 2nd best position. HUN Corp. recruitment status: frozen
Ceratin Multiplicity	Posted - 2007.07.30 20:51:00 - [70] Proposed amarr changes suck, i like the sacrilege the way it is, bring new crystals not ruin it please. kthxbye :P ------------ All hail! Leader of the pod brigade..
Jinmie	Posted - 2007.07.30 21:32:00 - [71] Originally by: d026 dude i wanted to support you I support my legs because they support me.
Major Stallion Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.07.31 02:25:00 - [72] Originally by: Venkul Mul Why your picture seem false? Maybe because the character used in the text isn't those used in EVE? My opinion is that you have been mislead and those pictures are a photoshop work. um its called expanded font? those pics are as real as they get....amarrs are getting nerfed, right after they get a pulse laser tracking bonus last patch. 1 step forward, 4 steps back. Good Job CCP. I dont even fly amarr, and i'm pi$$ed. ________________________________ High Sec PvP
0zimandius The Nietzian Way Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 06:35:00 - [73] plz dont fix us by makeing amarr 100% lame. im fly amarr only and will b regretting that if u turn us into a halfasss of the other races. amarr is supposed to be drastically different from the other races. we tank different, fite different. this isnt a boost, its a shove off to get more caldari to fly our stuff. i say, if u want a missile boat, get a missile boat. i do not want one, so i fly amarr. 0zi with a zero
Fozters	Posted - 2007.07.31 06:45:00 - [74] Id chance Damnation bonus to Heavy missiles instead, dontl ike heavy assaults Otherwise it looks quite good.
0zimandius The Nietzian Way Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 06:55:00 - [75] hmm... come to think of it, now both our HACs r turds. harbi has more killing power than the zealot, and now our good tank HAC is dumb. why do fixes always have to b nerfs? need ideas? how about keep it simple, double cap regen on all amarr ships. fixed seems extreme, but fly amarr for a bit. we dont overpower style spec in much. in the lil pax amarr bible dealy it even says we worship cap. doesnt seem that crazy to me. or, put our useless hi slot in the med slots. i know this is a dark amarr discussion, but no ship should have 1 slot in any rack ->retribution. theres alot of other things to try on the test server than a caldaritization. plz, pretty plz dont give up on us 0zi with a zero
Movit	Posted - 2007.07.31 08:49:00 - [76] What the HELL!!!!!!!! Guys come on. (CCCP meaning) I do reealize your thoughts about the fact that we do have to train only gunnery unlike other races. BUT, have you eve played Amarr? Any of you? I got my Absolution running with maxed out skills and only then I have started to feel more or less comfortable at missions. It took me over a year to train that sucker. And now what? You propose me to spend the next 3 months to train missiles to be able not JUST sit in damnation? If you call this a boost to those ships then aI'm a sinderela. Still thinking of it OK, fine and dandy if you would like to make life even harder to us fine, I chose Amarr cause they are hard mode Race )))) But those dumb bonuces realy suck. Change the HAM bonus to just HM and change the rocket bonus to both rockets and lights and then, only then I will think of going into those suckers. If not forget it you will just kill this like of ships. I was personaly happy with Scri and Damnation. I was dreaming of them. Now they suck and there is now way I will go into that line any more. Guys, think do not act. Put rpoposals into the forum. See the reaction come on. Oh by the way. Hard not to mention, thatnks for killing the only good ship we had, the Curse and the Piligrim with that "boost" to the Njsf in the same Patch. Sucks again. To be honest am am angry, so maybe I did write something offencive but its my emotions and there is no ther place like forum to post those. THINK BEFORE YOU ACT. Блин.
Dirt McGirtt Captain Morgan Society	Posted - 2007.07.31 09:02:00 - [77] Im glad my 9 mil sp in gunnery (amarr guns only) will now goto waste on the khandid ships. Thanks CCP for giving me another reason not to log in.
xOmGx	Posted - 2007.08.05 15:34:00 - [78] New Vengeance - Crap, Mega Crap. I mean Rocket's... it is just dunn fit in Amarr Picture for me. Ok Armor resistance Boost +5% - Awesome and Capacitor bonus still there But rocket boat kinda - crap i will miss laser's...
Andreya	Posted - 2007.08.05 18:20:00 - [79] i presonally like the amarr changes, enough that i am going to train up amarr frig V at least. malediction: cumon, this thing is awesome now, it still can be used like a crow! gees, it just gets one damage bonus instead of two... BUT it tanks better and has more cap!!! i love this ship. vengeance: out of the assault frigates, this ship will be god for AF vs AF. (if it gets within range of course) it can outtank any other ship by far, all while having the meds slots open for tanking still (or even a nano setup with it many low slots and cap bonus) anathema: doesnt matter, its a covert, stop complaining about it. sacriledge: wow, just wow, if this thing gets ahold of something, its going to ruins someones day, it will bash a HAM cerb easily... crazy tank, and decent damage, with a good slot layout. damnation:!!!!!!!! ok ok, i agree this ship is lame... it needs to be redone :P so all in all, i think the new amarr other than the damnation are great, (redo the bonus's on their recons tho :P)
xOmGx Warriors tribe United Legion	Posted - 2007.08.06 14:27:00 - [80] Ok I make a review of my opinion LetÆs say +5% to all armor Resistance û Awesome bonus -5% to Cap Recharge Time û Good really Good +5% damage to ALL damage Types of RocketÆs û Better than same bonus on Caldary HAWK So if to compare New Vengeance to HAWK we got a good tanking ship (can run MWD + Small Repair NoN Stop) and good damaging one too!!! :D Just need to spend 1 month on training my Missile tree skillÆs (when I was so close of using T2 Small pulses.. :() If T2 Trained we can variety our Range (Long range û AntiShip RocketÆs), only we loosing much time on reload :( but we can use ANY type of Damage.. PS. I think a lot of Caldary pilotes gonna train Vengeanceà :) No Pain - No Gain
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.08.06 17:20:00 - [81] wtf heavy assault missiles without range bonus this is 100% useless -.-
Minuteman Creative Destruction	Posted - 2007.08.16 22:38:00 - [82] Don't get me started on the heretic - it's literally the only ship I've flown for months and now it's going to be completely ruined. They didn't just take the damage-dealing turret slots, oh no - they had to take some grid off as well. What I really love though, is that they didn't change (read: screw-up) the curse with the Khanid changes. Oh, no. They just completely destroyed it with the nosferatu nerf. They took the one damn decent versatile ship (which doesn't only go pew pew pew) the Amarr had and they just kicked it in the nuts... Minuteman's Comic
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.16 23:54:00 - [83] Originally by: Minuteman Don't get me started on the heretic - it's literally the only ship I've flown for months and now it's going to be completely ruined. They didn't just take the damage-dealing turret slots, oh no - they had to take some grid off as well. Except that now heretic will deal 130dps at 15km range, where previously id dealt 140 under 10km. Which means it can stay out of web range and kill its target. Plus heretic becomes second best dictor after the sabre (tad better vs slower targets than sabre, tad worse vs ceptors). Pair of sabre + heretic will be able to roam thru 0.0 and kill 90% of targets they meet w/o bigger problems. Also that 130dps comes without any damage mods (max skills) and enables you to chose ANY damage type (so 130dps explo if ya need, or change all to em vs ravens). It versatility just went thru the roof and only thing that keeps it from being overpowered like sabre is 3/3 mid/low lay instead of 4/2.
DeadDuck Amarr Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.08.17 09:57:00 - [84] I'm liking a lot the new changes. Even if I have to train some missile skills, who cares !!! It takes about 1 month to have decent missile skills in order to fit HAM's II. A good trade off when you consider the flexibility you will enjoy. What were people expecting about Khanid Mk II ??? A Laser boost ???? Really was obvious the changes were going to be turn Kanhid ship in to missle platforms. The original tread was showing the way and CCP fortunatelly loved the idea. Regarding the people complaining about not having long range missile bonus, well you can always fit the long range HAM'II that will give you a range of about 60 Km's, wich is good enough. Khanid ships are not Caldari Ships, they are a mix of caldari technology (missiles) and amarr technology (the tank and cap bonus). If people dont want to train missiles, well stick to the other dozens of amarr ship that dont use them. Almost nobody were flying the Khanid ships anyway ... Congratulations CCP for actually put the idea up in such a bright form.
Minuteman Creative Destruction	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:48:00 - [85] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Minuteman Don't get me started on the heretic - it's literally the only ship I've flown for months and now it's going to be completely ruined. They didn't just take the damage-dealing turret slots, oh no - they had to take some grid off as well. Except that now heretic will deal 130dps at 15km range, where previously id dealt 140 under 10km. Which means it can stay out of web range and kill its target. Plus heretic becomes second best dictor after the sabre (tad better vs slower targets than sabre, tad worse vs ceptors). Pair of sabre + heretic will be able to roam thru 0.0 and kill 90% of targets they meet w/o bigger problems. Also that 130dps comes without any damage mods (max skills) and enables you to chose ANY damage type (so 130dps explo if ya need, or change all to em vs ravens). It versatility just went thru the roof and only thing that keeps it from being overpowered like sabre is 3/3 mid/low lay instead of 4/2. Funny, but no. Even T2 rockets do about half as much damage as the guns on the heretic. The sabre isn't the best because it has 4 mids or some missiles - it's got the most guns (way highest DPS) and the best attributes. Minuteman's Comic
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:04:00 - [86] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 17/08/2007 13:05:51 Originally by: Minuteman Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Minuteman Don't get me started on the heretic - it's literally the only ship I've flown for months and now it's going to be completely ruined. They didn't just take the damage-dealing turret slots, oh no - they had to take some grid off as well. Except that now heretic will deal 130dps at 15km range, where previously id dealt 140 under 10km. Which means it can stay out of web range and kill its target. Plus heretic becomes second best dictor after the sabre (tad better vs slower targets than sabre, tad worse vs ceptors). Pair of sabre + heretic will be able to roam thru 0.0 and kill 90% of targets they meet w/o bigger problems. Also that 130dps comes without any damage mods (max skills) and enables you to chose ANY damage type (so 130dps explo if ya need, or change all to em vs ravens). It versatility just went thru the roof and only thing that keeps it from being overpowered like sabre is 3/3 mid/low lay instead of 4/2. Funny, but no. Even T2 rockets do about half as much damage as the guns on the heretic. The sabre isn't the best because it has 4 mids or some missiles - it's got the most guns (way highest DPS) and the best attributes. With eve fitting tool (including changes to khanid ships) i get 131 dps with faction rockets on Heretic (no BCU, maxed skills). Even basic calcs: 28 (CN rocket) x 1,25 (heretic bonus) x 1,1 (warhead) x1,25 (rocket5) = 48,125 3,2 (t2 rocket ROF) x 0,9 (missile l. op.) x 0,9 (rocket spec 5) x 0,85 (rapid l.) = 2,2032 48.125/2.2032 = 21,8 21,8x6 (heretic launchers) = 131 DPS. So... "funny but yes". And with t2 rockets it deals even more damage. (29 damage compared to 28 on CN). Touche EDIT: it still has enough grid to fit 200mm t2 AC
Kirov VIII	Posted - 2007.08.18 12:23:00 - [87] I wait a total delete of laser and change skill to hybrid :P A little zealot/abso with neutron blaster can work perfectly :)
Alyxa Mahan	Posted - 2007.08.20 19:26:00 - [88] There's apparently a lot of people here who really need to level up their reading comprehension skills. THIS IS NO AMARR BOOST !! and again for the slower ones: THIS IS NO AMARR BOOST !! This thing is called "Khanid Mk2" for a damn good reason! These ship changes have absolutely nothing to do with any Amarr problems, they are an effort to turn the spurned and unused Khanid ships into something usefull, giving them their own unique identity on the way. While these ships are officially part of the Amarr tree, the Khanid Kingdom is an independant entity, and their ships were always described as a tech mix. Basically, when they split away from the Amarr Empire they brought their ships with them, and later upgraded them with technology from their new Caldari friends. Which unfortunately resulted in an unfocused, inefficient mish-mash, combining a mix of laser and missile weaponry (with partial boni) with the weird defenses of improved shields and armor tanking slot layouts. Now they gain a new focus, becoming heavy armor tanked short range missile spammers, something new and unique, and i like it a lot. The only real problem with the entire thing is the HAM, which needs some looking at. When a weapon or system is rarely used, that usually means it either sucks, or everything else is better, and giving out HAM specific boni won't change that.

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