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Gozmoth Amarr Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:15:00 - [1] Edited by: Gozmoth on 30/07/2007 14:35:49 Here : http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=489 So Nosferatu will be nerfed. Any comments ? Good or bad ?
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:20:00 - [2] Well, Curse/Pilgrim are now garbage.
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:21:00 - [3] Edited by: N1fty on 30/07/2007 14:22:17 Originally by: Xequecal Well, Curse/Pilgrim are now garbage. Pfft, fit neutralisers with nos, take cap from multiple targets and win. EDIT: Love the Khanid changes! Buut people with T2 Rocket and HAM BPO's now have the most lucrative weapon BPO's as they can sell to all races. ============================================
PhantomVyper Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Xequecal Well, Curse/Pilgrim are now garbage. They aren't garbage, you just need to use Neuts along with Noses now. I'm still undecided on the Khanid changes though, I hadn't planned to train missiles so it will mess with my training plans...
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:31:00 - [5] Edited by: Xequecal on 30/07/2007 14:33:22 Originally by: PhantomVyper Originally by: Xequecal Well, Curse/Pilgrim are now garbage. They aren't garbage, you just need to use Neuts along with Noses now. I'm still undecided on the Khanid changes though, I hadn't planned to train missiles so it will mess with my training plans... Curse was always more of a solo ship. Curse can't go below 30% capacitor or it can't power damps and warp disruptor. If you neut your target below 30%, you also go below 30% and it gets away. There's no point to fitting the NOS on the ship at all. What can't your target do at 30% cap that it can't also do at 100% cap? 30% cap is max recharge rate. If it has a sustainable tank that can tank your drones, it can do so at 30% cap. If it does not, then you didn't need the NOS, and your drones will eventually kill it anyway. Not to mention it makes soloing in a Curse a PAINFUL exercise. Not only do you now have to constantly shuffle drones in and out to frustrate attempts to lock them, but now you ALSO have to manually run your neut/MWD to keep your cap at the lowest level possible without going under peak recharge rate. One tiny mistake in this over a LONG fight and your cap becomes unable to sustain warp disruptor and your target gets away.
Eardianm Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:34:00 - [6] So, I assume this will change the common thought on when to cap inject? Rather than injecting at natural max recharge, will it be better to keep your cap "full" and negate Nos? --------------
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:37:00 - [7] Edited by: Dr Fighter on 30/07/2007 14:38:36 a bonus to the activation cost of nuetralisers would make sense for the cruse and pilgrim, otherwise they wont be able to do their job while having some form of defence at the same time. or we'll see passive shield tanked nuet curses being the new standard fit (unless of course thats the plan) nuet their cap to zero (and yours) then turn a nos on to keep it low (and yours). dont think the nos change was a good one tbh.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Dr Fighter Edited by: Dr Fighter on 30/07/2007 14:38:36 a bonus to the activation cost of nuetralisers would make sense for the cruse and pilgrim, otherwise they wont be able to do their job while having some form of defence at the same time. or we'll see passive shield tanked nuet curses being the new standard fit (unless of course thats the plan) nuet their cap to zero (and yours) then turn a nos on to keep it low (and yours). dont think the nos change was a good one tbh. How exactly do you keep them from warping away when your cap is at zero?
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Dr Fighter Edited by: Dr Fighter on 30/07/2007 14:38:36 a bonus to the activation cost of nuetralisers would make sense for the cruse and pilgrim, otherwise they wont be able to do their job while having some form of defence at the same time. or we'll see passive shield tanked nuet curses being the new standard fit (unless of course thats the plan) nuet their cap to zero (and yours) then turn a nos on to keep it low (and yours). dont think the nos change was a good one tbh. How exactly do you keep them from warping away when your cap is at zero? your gang m8s i guess, so bye bye solo curse, or just fit an injector and use alot of small charges to tie you over. i guess i'll get my curse blown up while it still works ;p
Ejderdisi Caldari Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:43:00 - [10] For Khanid Mk2 beware guys. Missile spawning, extra well-armour tanked, fast approaching ships coming. Btw t2 short range missiles are not short range FYI For Nosferatu's its a little raw idea but will do the job I guess. Though I'm pretty sure a better Nos idea might spring to mind.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:44:00 - [11] You can still solo a Curse, but now you need absolute max skills to do it, (Recon Ships V, Energy Management V, Energy Systems Operation V, Propulsion Jamming V, Energy Emissions Systems V) you have to be relatively lag free, and you need to concentrate on not ******* up even in the slightest for a long period of time while you multitask several things at once.
Sorted EVE Empowerment League Navy Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Eardianm So, I assume this will change the common thought on when to cap inject? Rather than injecting at natural max recharge, will it be better to keep your cap "full" and negate Nos? No. if your wanting to negate NOS you want to have a low CAP.
PhantomVyper Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:46:00 - [13] Originally by: Ejderdisi Though I'm pretty sure a better Nos idea might spring to mind. You mean like... oh, I don't know... Nos/Neut dedicated slots like those for guns and missiles?!
Tarnag VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:47:00 - [14] bye bye my Curse... you served me well...
Eardianm Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Sorted Originally by: Eardianm So, I assume this will change the common thought on when to cap inject? Rather than injecting at natural max recharge, will it be better to keep your cap "full" and negate Nos? No. if your wanting to negate NOS you want to have a low CAP. Hmm. Yeah, I'm an idiot --------------
Kaylana Syi The Nest	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:49:00 - [16] Originally by: Xequecal Well, Curse/Pilgrim are now garbage. Maybe you should wait to use them in PVP before making generalized statements like that? Team Minmatar
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:52:00 - [17] if you can only give your self their cap when your cap is lower than theirs, doesnt that make the point of stealing it in the first place kinda redundant?
Crusix Bargoth Amarr Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:58:00 - [18] CCP: you did not FIX nos, you state that it can still cause cap damage, well the true problem with NOS is its ability to cause that damage to targets you outclass. so heavy NOS is STILL an anti-inty/AF weapon. You did not FIX nos, you mearly changed it. FIX IT, REMOVE THE ABILITY FOR HEAVY/MEDIUM NOS TO DESTROY FRIGATES. Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar nerf ponies!!1one
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:59:00 - [19] No, the idea is sound on most ships. The idea is to allow you to fit a cap-sucking setup and then steal back enough cap to run it from the ships that have setups that use less cap. For example, Abaddon with 4 guns/4 NOS or 5 guns/3 NOS is now an absolute monster because it can power its guns/tank off YOUR cap and you can't NOS it back. However, it has pretty much the opposite effect of the ECM nerf. Now NOS is decent on all ships EXCEPT the specialized nos ships.
Queen Hopy Your Friendly Booster Company	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:01:00 - [20] The nos chance was needed. Dont cry over the curse cause u all knew it was overpowered. What other recon / hac could take the ships the curse could? The nos chance still doesnt make it useless, you will just now have to use some neutralizers too and possibly an injector.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Queen Hopy The nos chance was needed. Dont cry over the curse cause u all knew it was overpowered. What other recon / hac could take the ships the curse could? The nos chance still doesnt make it useless, you will just now have to use some neutralizers too and possibly an injector. Curse has no room for an injector. If you drop a damp there are a large number of ships that can still lock you at max disruptor range, and if you drop the shield extender you will lose it to any competent gate camp. (can't make it back to the gate)
Ratzap Gallente Old Farts	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:03:00 - [22] Seems fair enough tbh. Bit of adapt or die, bit of reworking but it should have a positive effect overall. I have 2 points though: 1) What happens with NoS on NPCs? Do they have cap levels even? 2) If the new sacrelige is going 205 m/s, can we have a speed up on the deimos at last please? 170 m/s is so slow for a ship that needs to close fast. Ratzap
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:06:00 - [23] Originally by: Queen Hopy The nos chance was needed. Dont cry over the curse cause u all knew it was overpowered. What other recon / hac could take the ships the curse could? The nos chance still doesnt make it useless, you will just now have to use some neutralizers too and possibly an injector. yeah but dont forget the everage curse wont be able be any where near as effective as the other recons (same as before if you dont want to tank and so use nuets) oh and a TD bonus, whoop di do. from best to near worst....... perhaps a special bonus (like the bombers old sig reduction for cruise), say 5% bonus to cap lvl required for nos. the curse didnt tank all that great before anyway..... and no its got next to no cap if it actually trys to cap out anything.
Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:07:00 - [24] You only need a energy neutralizer to steal cap from your victim, the nosferatus will keep your cap till you victim (and you) reaches 0 cap. Then you can recharge cap and your victim no Curse it's the same but requires more practice... ________________________________________
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:09:00 - [25] Edited by: Xequecal on 30/07/2007 15:10:40 Originally by: Kerdrak You only need a energy neutralizer to steal cap from your victim, the nosferatus will keep your cap till you victim (and you) reaches 0 cap. Then you can recharge cap and your victim no Curse it's the same but requires more practice... Have you EVER flown a Curse? If you go below 20-25% cap and your target is dry your warp disruptor alone will cap you out. Then he gets away. There needs to be a small buffer to keep the Curse viable. Ten percent is really all that's required. IE if your cap is at 40%, you can only drain your target to 30%.
Rossarian	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:11:00 - [26] And all nos really needed was a stacking penalty... Why such a complicated nerf? Also I am afraid that this might make those shiney new Khanid ships a bit overpowered, not to mention how it renders nos virtually useless for battleships as defense against tacklers... The inty-lobby must be very happy now This almost completely spoils the Khanid fix for me, and I am not even using nos very much.
Queen Hopy Your Friendly Booster Company	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:11:00 - [27] You can still fit a neut to stop those inties. And now you can actually go pvp in a smaller ship without the fear of being nossed to death in 2 seconds
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Xequecal Curse has no room for an injector. If you drop a damp there are a large number of ships that can still lock you at max disruptor range, and if you drop the shield extender you will lose it to any competent gate camp. (can't make it back to the gate) Maybe people will start using tracking disruptors on Amarr recons again. BTW, I wouldn't assume a) that damps won't be changed in the near future or b) the nos change will happen without some compensating change to the Amarr recons. _____ CPU Love
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:14:00 - [29] /me grab his crow Now i finaly can solo battleships w/o worrying about heavy nos !!! Awesome patch guys, love you very much ! --- Not replying to alts, post with ur main or STFU
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:15:00 - [30] nuet cycle times might need to be adjusted, or heavy nuets wont be that great a help with a 600 cap nuke every 24 seconds... most intys will hav enough cap back in a few seconds to re-scram - you could fit a smaller nuet but then you loose your range advanted the one thing a BS should hav over a smaller vessal.
Crusix Bargoth Amarr Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Rossarian And all nos really needed was a stacking penalty... Why such a complicated nerf? Also I am afraid that this might make those shiney new Khanid ships a bit overpowered, not to mention how it renders nos virtually useless for battleships as defense against tacklers... The inty-lobby must be very happy now This almost completely spoils the Khanid fix for me, and I am not even using nos very much. Nos was NEVER ment to be an anti-frig weapon. Play smarter, use a wingman or two, and drones like was intended. A weapon that ALWAYS hits and renders a ships role useless.....are you serious? Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar nerf ponies!!1one
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:17:00 - [32] Edited by: Santa Anna on 30/07/2007 15:18:34 Originally by: Rossarian And all nos really needed was a stacking penalty... Why such a complicated nerf? Also I am afraid that this might make those shiney new Khanid ships a bit overpowered, not to mention how it renders nos virtually useless for battleships as defense against tacklers... The inty-lobby must be very happy now This almost completely spoils the Khanid fix for me, and I am not even using nos very much. This isn't a complicated change to nos. They made something described as an energy siphon act as an energy siphon. edit: not a valley girl, just changed simile construction halfway through. _____ CPU Love
Stakhanov Katana's Edge	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:18:00 - [33] Curse and pilgrim can be easily cap injected thanks to their mid slots - the nos changes might just make smaller cap boosters more popular. I suppose neutralizers will be their primary weapon now. Gallente nosboats (esp. nosdomi) should be greatly weakened though , they'll have to choose between tanking at 30% with little to no nossing , or do it at very low cap and miss most of their natural recharge. Let's see how they tank a gank mega now... retribution cometh
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:21:00 - [34] Originally by: StakhanovLet's see how they tank a gank mega now... retribution cometh [:pirate: rofl so true, my mega fits are always very low on cap, the perfect way to survive now lol
Great Artista Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Valandril /me grab his crow Now i finaly can solo battleships w/o worrying about heavy nos !!! Awesome patch guys, love you very much ! Hihih qft! _______ GA out.
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:36:00 - [36] Another thought, capital ships. 99% of capital ships are fit for perma tank, be it 3CAR for moms, 2car for dread/carrior and now small gangs killed them by giving a bit nossing to break theyr recharge (so they can't run both cars permamently and will capout), but with this changes it will be more likely not longer possible to kill capitals with small gangs, they will just permamently tank them, or at least till next downtime. --- Not replying to alts, post with ur main or STFU
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:46:00 - [37] Originally by: Valandril Another thought, capital ships. 99% of capital ships are fit for perma tank, be it 3CAR for moms, 2car for dread/carrior and now small gangs killed them by giving a bit nossing to break theyr recharge (so they can't run both cars permamently and will capout), but with this changes it will be more likely not longer possible to kill capitals with small gangs, they will just permamently tank them, or at least till next downtime. Or you actually neut the Cap, or nos them from below your max recharge. You won't be able to use your current NOS-heavy setups in all likelihood, but you'll be able to use the same number of guys. _____ CPU Love
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:48:00 - [38] About ***** time. Some of you muppets who trolled posters arguing for nosferatus changes for the last two years better crawl back into your hole and hide forever. NB. In Rust We Trust**
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:49:00 - [39] Still trying to get my head round the changes, but it looks like you need to be using cap to take cap? Nos/Neut combos to get the job done. Curse can still do its job but not its not as overpowering as it was. Changes also mean that you either fit for anti tackler (Neut) or you fit for tank sustaining (Nos) and not both.... well not true, you can do one of each or multiples there of, but it'll be less effective. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:51:00 - [40] Edited by: Valandril on 30/07/2007 15:52:20 Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Still trying to get my head round the changes, but it looks like you need to be using cap to take cap? Nos/Neut combos to get the job done. Curse can still do its job but not its not as overpowering as it was. Changes also mean that you either fit for anti tackler (Neut) or you fit for tank sustaining (Nos) and not both.... well not true, you can do one of each or multiples there of, but it'll be less effective. Not true, frig will recharge enought cap to keep tackling u prety damn fast. And to nos/neutr capital, u will need more ppl to actualy do it and i mean ppl in dedicated ships fited exacly for this which lead to bigger gangs. Not meaning that fitting neutras is pita. --- Not replying to alts, post with ur main or STFU
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:56:00 - [41] Something that strikes me is the project of giving Amarr more oomph. What've had so far since it was confirmed that more oomph was intended is: 20% more pulse tracking - Great, doesn't relate to any of the problems Amarr have however. EANM's nerfed - So were nerfing the tank of those who have issues with cap - mainly amarr. Nos nerfed - the primary use of amarr as it was, the way for them to maintain cap. Khanid changes - undecided on this one so far. Hard to say if it was a real boost to amarr, especially seeing how its a bit off the general amarr idea of lasers and armor tank. Might be decent ships - but not in line with the amarrian ways. As for the nos-nerf itself it was needed, and it does help out quite abit, even if it makes the need for more high-slot modules a tad more urgent. Post count: 417853
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:02:00 - [42] Not so sure about these changes to nos. Might work, we'll just have to wait and see. Personally I think nos should track like turrets and dampeners should go the same way as ECM. Ie,, only any use on ships with bonuses for their use.
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Valandril And to nos/neutr capital, u will need more ppl to actualy do it and i mean ppl in dedicated ships fited exacly for this which lead to bigger gangs. Not meaning that fitting neutras is pita. I fit a Nos on my AC Pest mostly for cap ships. (1 isn't enough to matter against anything smaller in the gangs where I use it.) I'll switch to a neut and keep energy neut drones handy. _____ CPU Love
PhantomVyper Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:05:00 - [44] Originally by: NoNah Nos nerfed - the primary use of amarr as it was, the way for them to maintain cap. This is not a nerf for Amarr ships in general (except the Arbi/Curse/Pilgrim that is). The nerf to Nosf will be pretty insignificant when you are using it on a ship that isn't cap stable. You'll still be able to use it to balance your cap. That combined with the fact that until now, if you where using and Amarr laser ship, if you got nossed you'd die (and everyone was using Nos these days), makes this change a significant buff to Amarr laser boats. I still don't know what to think on Khanid Mk II though...
Xarax Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:05:00 - [45] Lets face it guys, the Amarr Recons were the only recon ships that were capable of taking down larger ships while flying solo. Recons are meant to operate in gangs, and the Amarr ships were the only ones breaking that mold. All Recons are still capable of taking down smaller ships while flying solo (as well as some cruiser sized ships), and they all still serve a purpose in gang warfare. CCP has allowed the Amarr Recons to be overpowered for quite a while. Now that they are giving the Khanid ships a little love, itÆs only right that these Recons be brought in line as well. Oh, and for those Amarr pilots that keep whining about having to train another weapons platformàtry playing Minmatar for a bit. Minnies have to train guns, missiles and dronesà& then to top it off, we have to train for 2 kinds of tanks as well. Get over yourselves with your fancy gold ships and shiny lights that never need reloading. _______ Originally by: Kara Rhane AFAIK they call that a 'moose knuckle'
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:09:00 - [46] Originally by: NoNah Nos nerfed - the primary use of amarr as it was, the way for them to maintain cap. Now that's exactly what it does. If your ship uses more cap than the ship you're fighting, a nos will give you his cap. If you both cap out, you both need injectors, but on balance you should be able to nos. if you want. Quote: Khanid changes - undecided on this one so far. Hard to say if it was a real boost to amarr, especially seeing how its a bit off the general amarr idea of lasers and armor tank. Might be decent ships - but not in line with the amarrian ways. The Sac in particular looks fantastic. In its proposed form, it'd give Amarr 2 of the top 4 HACs IMO. The divergence from classic amarr doctrine is apparent, but how many ways could you do lasers and armor? Quote: As for the nos-nerf itself it was needed, and it does help out quite abit, even if it makes the need for more high-slot modules a tad more urgent. What high-slot modules? _____ CPU Love
Linnth	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:10:00 - [47] Nos change sucked. Real hard...
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:17:00 - [48] Originally by: Linnth Nos change sucked. Real hard... Sucking is the point of nos though Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr Ordo Ministorum	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:18:00 - [49] Edited by: Solomunio Kzenig on 30/07/2007 16:18:35 Not really sure regarding the change to Nos...was thinking that maybe a stacking nerf + sig radius requirement (give Nos'es a sig radius, if their sig radius matches or exceeds a targets they get a 100% of the cap they can drain, if the targets sig is smaller, say 80 % of the Nos'es sig, then they drain 80% of their ammount etc.) was a better option. Another possible option would be that as your cap reduced, it would become more and more difficult for Nos to drain cap from you. At say down to 50% cap Nos works as it does now, but below 50% cap, the Nos drains only a % of the 'full' ammount it can drain. One Empire, One Emperor, One People, Forever under Heaven. Amarr Aeternus.
BOBHOPE Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:22:00 - [50] i like it.
Trind2222 Amarr Celestial Pillagers	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:33:00 - [51] I like this change but hope the reduce the requirements for nos less pg. This is best change so far no more nos ftw now you have to be smart to use nos properly.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:47:00 - [52] Actually having thought a bit more about it this change would be tolerable, IF they also 'fix' Neuts by cutting Cap drain, cap use and cycle time in half. Otherwise this is too big a nerf for BS vs frigs. Yeah yeah I know nos was never supposed to be a frig defense (which dev told you that btw? :P) but it WAS a frig defense, no, it was THE frig defense since most other frig defenses can be easily overcome by competent inty pilots. So with those 'fixed' neuts we could still drain pesky inties, but now instead of gaining we would have to pay to do it. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Royaldo Gallente KVA Noble Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.30 17:02:00 - [53] Edited by: Royaldo on 30/07/2007 17:03:04 do what kayo wrote. make current nosf stay, but only make them work with the current nosf ships.

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