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Damnation MK2, Overpowered?

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Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:23:00 - [1] Ok guys, we have all read the new devblog I hope. So I will cut to the point, The new Damnation with its 5%/lvl bonus to its capacitor now makes this overpowered compared to other fleet command ships, Basically all Fleet Commands have had one serious problem, Capacitor. They can't run their tanks with 3x Gang Modules due to the high capacitor. Now with the potential of -25% capacitor recharge time, the Damnation MK2 by far out tanks all Fleet Command Ships Damnation lvl5 CS 28.125cap/s, 3x Gang Modules 13.125cap/s Claymore 18.75cap/s EOS 18.7466cap/s Vulture 18.7499cap/s Not cool, the whole concept of a Fleet Command is to tank, this is a woefully unfair advantage.
Zosimos Sabina Tritanium Workers Union Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:26:00 - [2] Edited by: Zosimos Sabina on 30/07/2007 23:30:10 1) I thought most fleet command ships sat at a random system safe. 2) If you are in a fleet in the front lines, don't you want a hp buffer and not an active tank? 3) If you aren't in a fleet, don't you want to be flying one of the fleet commands that has more damage than a wet noodle? 4) If you were active tanking for some strange reason, wouldn't you fit a cap injector? 5) I fail to see your point in all this. Natural cap regen sucks except on PVE ships anyway. 6) EOS still wins EVE. ------------------------------------------------ »\(¦_o)/»
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:30:00 - [3] SHROOOOOM! Damn, what was that? Oh, the Claymore... Logoffs
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:39:00 - [4] Edited by: Nian Banks on 30/07/2007 23:40:44 Originally by: Cmdr Sy SHROOOOOM! Damn, what was that? Oh, the Claymore... Oh Har har, that must be a claymore without any gang mods, because with a MWD you aint Shroooming anywhere. Your putt putt putting. Oh and with the new Damnation's HAM bonus, that non gang mod using Shrooming Claymore will get hit anyway because the Damnation will be using said missiles to pound it to hell.
DarkFollower Amarr Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:47:00 - [5] u Realy don't make sence are u seriously saying that in a fleet battle u can tank with a damnation , because it has better cap recharge ????!!! I think i've missed that they have fitting req lowerd for the use of a capital rep , i mean how can it be compared to the shiled boost amaount of a claymore , the repair ammount of an eos (And dmg!!!) or even with the sniping range of a vulture Serious now What do u see so great in this damnation mk2 , besides the fact that is better than the crap it was before , because for me it's still the last command i would use , maybe now it's a bit better than the vulture but at least that can snipe It's not overpowered , maybe more inline with what a commandship should be , far better that what it was before ( i mean wtf cap reduction for lasers , and optimal for only 4 lasrs ??!!!!!) but tbh not extraordinary nice , cap recharge as a bonus for a command.. ... ... Cap recharges on PvP ships Suxxor monkey ballzorz!!
Lowanaera Amarr Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:50:00 - [6] Eos: solowtfpwn ship with a beefy tank and strong DPS. Vulture: effective anti-support sniper or very strong passive tank. Claymore: Perfect CS for keeping up with Vagas/nano-gangs or monster injected faction XL SB tank. Damnation: best at idling at safespots with gang mods running? Best at boring enemies to death with terrible DPS without using cap? Seriously, who doesn't fit an injector on an active-tanked PvP ship? And who would choose to fly the Damnation over the Eos because of passive cap recharge? Hmm, an extra 400 DPS in exchange for 10cap/sec... because passive regen is such a desired PvP attribute! Maybe, maybe your contention might have validity in the context of say the Alliance Tournament. In real warfare? Heh, no.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:53:00 - [7] OK, look, it depends. 1v1 its damage output will still be pathetic. In a real fleet battle, it's toast. Whether it's made primary by a sniper BS wing or a squad of blasterthrons, it's dead. In a small gang situation it will do great. But a lot of the time you will want to keep it hidden, and a lot of Amarrians will be using it to run L4s with more bling value than a Raven. In a small gang skirmish, it will just get left to last or nuked at the start by a neut boat. It doesn't get a pass because it's got a built-in cap relay. Logoffs
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Zosimos Sabina Edited by: Zosimos Sabina on 30/07/2007 23:30:10 1) I thought most fleet command ships sat at a random system safe. 2) If you are in a fleet in the front lines, don't you want a hp buffer and not an active tank? 3) If you aren't in a fleet, don't you want to be flying one of the fleet commands that has more damage than a wet noodle? 4) If you were active tanking for some strange reason, wouldn't you fit a cap injector? 5) I fail to see your point in all this. Natural cap regen sucks except on PVE ships anyway. 6) EOS still wins EVE. 1: I am sure CCP will work out a way to nerf the afk buffing, ships are meant to be flown not sat in safe. 2: The Damnation gets a resist bonus, effectively a HP buffer, the EOS and Claymore get active tank bonuses. 3: The Damnation gets +5%/lvl damage bonus to HAM's, the Vulture gets no damage bonus, the Claymore gets a ROF bonus and so chews through ammo faster, the EOS is the only higher dps ship thanks to its heavy drones and 7 turret slots with a damage bonus. 4: If all Fleet Command Ships fit a cap injector then doesn't the Damnation still have more capacitor regen? 5: I fail to see how you fail to see the point, Fleet Command Ships with 3x Gang mods have a capacitor problem, now the damnation doesn't. Oh and on your previous points about active tanking, Have you ever seen a Fleet Command Ship active tank? They live quite a long time in medium sized conflicts. 6: EOS is gallente, they pawn with drones but the Damnation pawns with capacitor, tank and close range death.
Wayward Hooligan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.31 00:14:00 - [9] This thread is stupid. How about we give it some time to see if it really is overpowered? Devs have stated that Amarr are supposed to have a cap advantage. Don't have link to back that up so you may or may not ignore it. Looks like it will be a nice ship for small gangs.
LaCoHa The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.07.31 00:21:00 - [10] Overpowered.. nah, but nicely bonused to own in small gangs... yes. I am gall speced, but am changing direction for a bit just so i can add a Damnation to my hanger. Capless weapons systems + cap bonus (enough to perma-run two MAR II's) + nasty resist bonus = gate camping powerhouse :) me likes. Laco
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.31 00:40:00 - [11] A passive vulture will still far outtank the damnation.
Oedus Caro Caldari Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.07.31 01:36:00 - [12] Originally by: Nian Banks My name is Nian Banks and I think Amarr should universally suck. Thank you. As others have pointed out, the other three command vessels already have some specific attribute or ability that surpasses those of the others. That the Damnation will, following these changes, seemingly become the best ship in her class for actually commanding should be a non-issue, as long as the other tech two ship classes exhibit similar interracial relationships. I.e. as long as the Astarte is the best field command for field commanding, as long as the Saber is the best interdictor for effectively interdicting, etc.
Shereza	Posted - 2007.07.31 03:07:00 - [13] In the rush for PvP over-dose I've noticed that people might not have been taking some issues into account. Level 5 and, if CCP ever makes and releases them, level 6 missions. These things are designed for small gangs and/or capital ships and, having ascertained that the minimum for at least one mission is a custom-kitted (for that mission, including rigs) abaddon with a support ship feeding it 4 large remote armor repair and a cap transfer that still needs to goose its own large armor repair fairly constantly I think that the small gang idea holds true. Since it seems to be somewhat agreed that natural/passive cap regen is at best questionable if not outright useless in PvP then why not examine the PvE aspects of it. With a cap recharge reduction it seems to me that a damnation would make a good gang/leadership/logistics ship for PvE gangs letting you run gang mods and repair/maintain cap on other ships. Heh, there's a thought, an amarr ship able to give capacitor energy to other amarr ships. The sky is falling. Of course what with all L5s, and likely L6s, being low-sec I'm sure those PvE encounters will occasionally, if not often, end in PvP so who knows.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.31 03:09:00 - [14] Edited by: Setana Manoro on 31/07/2007 03:10:09 Originally by: Nian Banks Ok guys, we have all read the new devblog I hope. So I will cut to the point, The new Damnation with its 5%/lvl bonus to its capacitor now makes this overpowered compared to other fleet command ships, Basically all Fleet Commands have had one serious problem, Capacitor. They can't run their tanks with 3x Gang Modules due to the high capacitor. Now with the potential of -25% capacitor recharge time, the Damnation MK2 by far out tanks all Fleet Command Ships Damnation lvl5 CS 28.125cap/s, 3x Gang Modules 13.125cap/s Claymore 18.75cap/s EOS 18.7466cap/s Vulture 18.7499cap/s Not cool, the whole concept of a Fleet Command is to tank, this is a woefully unfair advantage. Eos has better HP/cap boost and Claymore/Vulture are usually passive shield tanked and at a SS. What is your point ? PS: In case you need it spelled out, you are wrong. Caldari are the plague of EVE, little whiners that must be cleansed from TQ.
Linnth	Posted - 2007.07.31 05:16:00 - [15] So what if it's overpowered, Amarr deserve to have something good...
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.31 07:44:00 - [16] Removing lasers and saying amarr ship is overpowered? FFS! I'm not going to train single missile skills to operate AMARR ship! There is NO other race that has SPLIT personality for ships but still AMARR has to suffer from that. Why is that CCP hates AMARR? How about we split up Gallente .. oh wait, all their T2 ships requires BOTH of their dominant offensive skills: Gunnery AND drones. Amarr is now forced to learn gunnery, drones AND missiles?! YAY! FFS, eighter REALLY boost amarr or delete whole race and give us dedicated amarr people to redistribute our skillpoints, thanks! CCP giving "oomph" to Amarr's: Nerffing most of ships via Khanid Mk2. Enjoy your "oomphffs" people! :rolleyes:
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.07.31 07:50:00 - [17] So basically the Damnation gets to actually fight in pvp thanks to its capacitor bonus but you think its a fair call to expect the vulture and claymore to safe spot. You guys are all jokes, really go crawl back under the rocks you all live under, This boost as you think is fair is definitely 100% over powered. Oh and for Amarr to have the best cap, shure! That is ofcourse because they usually would be using lasers not missiles. But oh well, lets fix the biggest issue with Fleet Command Ships for only one of the four ships, Sounds fair to me... If I was a Damnation pilot that is.
Shin Mao Caldari AFC Ultima Rati0	Posted - 2007.07.31 07:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Kuolematon Removing lasers and saying amarr ship is overpowered? FFS! I'm not going to train single missile skills to operate AMARR ship! There is NO other race that has SPLIT personality for ships but still AMARR has to suffer from that. Why is that CCP hates AMARR? How about we split up Gallente .. oh wait, all their T2 ships requires BOTH of their dominant offensive skills: Gunnery AND drones. Amarr is now forced to learn gunnery, drones AND missiles?! YAY! FFS, eighter REALLY boost amarr or delete whole race and give us dedicated amarr people to redistribute our skillpoints, thanks! You forget about minmatar. X-ray nuclear pumped laser:
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines	Posted - 2007.07.31 08:06:00 - [19] The Damnation is gonna suck even more only an idiot will get killed by it. Say NO to the NOS nerf
Hank Showbo Neyi Industries	Posted - 2007.07.31 09:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Zosimos Sabina Edited by: Zosimos Sabina on 30/07/2007 23:30:10 1) I thought most fleet command ships sat at a random system safe. 2) If you are in a fleet in the front lines, don't you want a hp buffer and not an active tank? 3) If you aren't in a fleet, don't you want to be flying one of the fleet commands that has more damage than a wet noodle? 4) If you were active tanking for some strange reason, wouldn't you fit a cap injector? 5) I fail to see your point in all this. Natural cap regen sucks except on PVE ships anyway. 6) EOS still wins EVE. 1. That is for cowards. 2. Its a bit tough on the old powergrid to fit a hefty HP buffer, but in that aspect you could be right. 2 reppers + a lot of resist imo is better. 3. They are all crap for damage apart from the overpowered for a fleet command EOS. 4. Why not active tank? If your just gunna buffer your HP all you have is a set ammount of endurance. 5. Hmm agreed, although discussable. 6. Yes EOS has damage of field command with the tank of a fleet command. Its overpowered in my opinion, soon as all the other fleet commands hit like a spud gun. To the original poster; 1. Claymore does have bad cap, but it also fields the strongest non capital tank in the game. 2. EOS, tanks better than the Damnation. Active tank bonus > Resistance. 3. Vulture, with gang mods fitted you can only go active tank, or a massive hp buffer with some rigs to give it a semi-good passive tank. In active tank, its still better than the Damnation for dps ammount tank. So Damnation's better than the others cap is justified.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.31 10:01:00 - [21] The Damnation will indeed have an even better tank than before. However, it will have the lowest damage output out of any of the fleet command ships. So it's all fair. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
ockackies	Posted - 2007.07.31 10:08:00 - [22] its damage bonus also makes it a very close range ship, so you have to mount a MWD or loose a 25% damage bonus.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.07.31 10:13:00 - [23] Quote: To the original poster; 1. Claymore does have bad cap, but it also fields the strongest non capital tank in the game. 2. EOS, tanks better than the Damnation. Active tank bonus > Resistance. 3. Vulture, with gang mods fitted you can only go active tank, or a massive hp buffer with some rigs to give it a semi-good passive tank. In active tank, its still better than the Damnation for dps ammount tank. So Damnation's better than the others cap is justified. Passive resist bonus is far superior to active tank bonus. The active tank bonus only pulls ahead of the passive resist bonus after about five minutes of continuous repping/boosting. How often do you take continuous damage requiring you to rep/boost for five minutes without either dying or killing your opponent? That's right, never. Remember, you have to start the timer over every time you hit 100% armor/shield. Eos does not tank better than Damnation. This is patently ridiculous. A multitude of reasons: - Passive resist bonus is superior to active tank bonus. - Damnation regens a LOT more cap and has capless weapons so it can rep more. - Damnation has an extra low slot for better tanking. - Damnation has more well rounded resists. Eos has the easily exploited gigantic explosive hole. Of course, I am by no means saying Damnation is overpowered. Eos has the huge drone bay and can actually deal DAMAGE, or get utility through its drones. (ECM drones FTW) But saying the Eos tanks better is ridiculous.
Almarez Setenta Corp	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:22:00 - [24] Yes out-tanks but doesn't out damage, as the devs said, so its a trade-off. New outpost-30 bil isk, Items to save up for cap ships-700 mil isk, Going to bed early now that you don't have to work for that and realizing how much poontang you were missing-PRICELESS
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Almarez Yes out-tanks but doesn't out damage, as the devs said, so its a trade-off. What is the dps of this ship? I mean has anyone worked our its dps with full HAM's, basic ammo and the lvl5 cs bonus with all relevant missile skills maxed. I would love to know as I can't imagine it been any worse than a claymore for dps and it definitely has more dps than a vulture. Only the EOS would out damage it. So the dps issue is a non issue in my books. Try a real excuse for it to have a super cap active tank.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:48:00 - [26] Well, i did say whines ahoy in the other thread, and this is why i won't be training misisles just yet Never believed a minmatar would come out of the woodworks against this, but then agian, those peeps hate us So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Mr Breakfast	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Nian Banks Originally by: Almarez Yes out-tanks but doesn't out damage, as the devs said, so its a trade-off. What is the dps of this ship? I mean has anyone worked our its dps with full HAM's, basic ammo and the lvl5 cs bonus with all relevant missile skills maxed. I would love to know as I can't imagine it been any worse than a claymore for dps and it definitely has more dps than a vulture. Only the EOS would out damage it. So the dps issue is a non issue in my books. Try a real excuse for it to have a super cap active tank. The Damnation outdamages the Vulture because the Vulture's 10% bonus to hybrid optimal makes it a long-range gunship. The Damnation now trades range (it used to have laser range bonus) for missile DPS, which is how weapons typically work in this game. I don't really see the problem unless you plan to use the Vulture solo and ride up on people to warp scramble them, which would be ******** anyway.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Well, i did say whines ahoy in the other thread, and this is why i won't be training misisles just yet Never believed a minmatar would come out of the woodworks against this, but then agian, those peeps hate us Ey I am all for the Damnation getting a useful bonus to its weapon system, I am just against it having 25% better capacitor recharge when all other Fleet Commands have cap issues. If the HAM is too low on dps, sure tweak it a little. For range, give a velocity bonus. I am fine with that. But I just don't agree with a capacitor recharge bonus.
Faekurias Federation Fleet Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.07.31 16:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Lowanaera Eos: solowtfpwn ship with a beefy tank and strong DPS. Vulture: effective anti-support sniper or very strong passive tank. Claymore: Perfect CS for keeping up with Vagas/nano-gangs or monster injected faction XL SB tank. Damnation: best at idling at safespots with gang mods running? Best at boring enemies to death with terrible DPS without using cap? Seriously, who doesn't fit an injector on an active-tanked PvP ship? And who would choose to fly the Damnation over the Eos because of passive cap recharge? Hmm, an extra 400 DPS in exchange for 10cap/sec... because passive regen is such a desired PvP attribute! Maybe, maybe your contention might have validity in the context of say the Alliance Tournament. In real warfare? Heh, no. I don't thin kyou understood, he's talking about the MkII models. Not the current damnation kekethx. Nubcaek :D
Securion Wolfheart Caldari Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.31 16:09:00 - [30] Hold on now... The new DAMNATION (?!?) is overpowered?!? "... compared to other fleet command ships..." 5 heavy assault launchers and a very good tank is "overpowered"? Are you joking? Sounds like a Drake to me and thats a Tech 1 thingy... -----====----- Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.

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